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    Click here to add a new enforcement request
    For appeals: create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}
    See also: Logged AE sanctions

    Important informationShortcuts

    Please use this page only to:

    • request administrative action against editors violating a remedy (not merely a principle) or an injunction in an Arbitration Committee decision, or a contentious topic restriction imposed by an administrator,
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    On community review

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    Important notes:

    1. For a request to succeed, either
    (i) the clear and substantial consensus of (a) uninvolved administrators at AE or (b) uninvolved editors at AN or
    (ii) a passing motion of arbitrators at ARCA
    is required. If consensus at AE or AN is unclear, the status quo prevails.
    2. While asking the enforcing administrator and seeking reviews at AN or AE are not mandatory prior to seeking a decision from the committee, once the committee has reviewed a request, further substantive review at any forum is barred. The sole exception is editors under an active sanction who may still request an easing or removal of the sanction on the grounds that said sanction is no longer needed, but such requests may only be made once every six months, or whatever longer period the committee may specify.
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    Information for administrators processing requests

    Thank you for participating in this area. AE works best if there are a variety of admins bringing their expertise to each case. There is no expectation to comment on every case, and the Arbitration Committee (ArbCom) thanks all admins for whatever time they can give.

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    SightWatcher

    No action, but see the ArbCom motion making the existing interaction bans concerning Mathsci mutual.  Sandstein  19:36, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning SightWatcher

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Mathsci (talk) 05:32, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    SightWatcher (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:ARBR&I#SightWatcher topic-banned

    SightWatcher was given an extended topic ban following his editing on behalf of Captain Occam.

    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. Prolonged battleground comment about WP:ARBR&I and me. SightWatcher's name had been mentioned only in passing as one in a list of 10 names. SightWatcher used this as a pretext to make a series of heated statements indistinguishable from comments Captain Occam has been making recently on wikipediocracy.
    2. Edit on WP:ARCA concerning WP:ARBR&I, being discussed privately with arbitrators
    Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

    After his extended topic ban was imposed in May 2012, SightWatcher has received multiple warnings from arbitrators.

    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    Recent background In 2013, before September, SightWatcher made only 2 edits to wikipedia. On 29 August an ANI thread was opened about Wer900. I added comments about Wer900's conduct in May 2013. (Wer900 had agreed to act as a proxy-editor for Captain Occam starting an RfAr on his behalf about my "ownership of Poland-related articles".) Captain Occam drew attention to the thread on wikipediocracy and kept up a running commentary, including claims that arbitrators had given permission for the RfAr. After emails with arbitrators, it appears no such decision was made by arbcom. Wer900 has in the meantime reiterated his intention to name me as a party in a future arbcom case but without giving any policy-based reason. My understanding is that arbitrators have no interest in seeing any evidence provided by Captain Occam.

    SightWatcher's edit SightWatcher's name appeared on ANI in a list of editors associated with Captain Occam, without reference to his editing or conduct. The thread started on 29 August. Captain Occam started his running commmentary on wikipediocracy on August 29. On 2 September SightWatcher made a small number of content edits to wikipedia. Before that he had made 5 content edits in 2012 and 2 in 2013. All other edits relate to WP:ARBR&I. In the edit on WP:ANI on 6 September 2013, SightWatcher wrote:

    "Why are you bringing me up again? I've avoided you since the beginning of this year, but you're still talking about me. I do not like my name being brought up in discussions that no longer concern me. I think everyone else is tired of hearing your theories about this, and they don't seem to be getting any traction with arbitrators anymore. For example I see that when you tagged Mors Martell as a sock puppet, an arbitrator removed the tag. "

    SightWatcher has been inactive on the project in 2012-2013. He reappeared on wikipedia only after Captain Occam started commenting on wikipediocracy on 29 August. Given the acknowledged pattern of proxy-editing surrounding Captain Occam, it is hard to explain SightWatcher's reappearance out-of-the-blue as a coincidence. (So far Wer900 has been the only person to have given a clear account of how Captain Occam solicits users to edit on his behalf.) Prior to his edit on ANI, SightWatcher's editing or conduct had not been discussed in any way at all: his username merely appeared in a list of editors that have been associated with Captain Occam. His own association was made explicit by arbitrators in the 2012 R&I review based on evidence provided by Ferahgo the Assassin. SightWatcher's heated comments above are indistinguishable from off-wiki commentary on the same issues by Captain Occam. SightWatcher's edit violates his extended topic ban. It also appears to be yet another edit made in collaboration with Captain Occam/Ferahgo the Assassin.

    Responses
    1st reply to Sandstein: Mathsci is not under any editing restrictions at ANI.
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    No allegations have been made without evidence. All those on the list are either banned, blocked or sanctioned. Blocked users include TrevelyanL85A2, like SightWatcher shown in the R&I review to have been in contact with Occam/Ferahgo; they all edited in support of each other. He was indefinitely blocked by Future Perfect in September 2012 after a topic ban violation, reported by me at AE. This report is comparable; I am under no restrictions concerning either. Other blocked users are: Zeromus1, indef blocked by arbitrators as a sockpuppet of Ferahgo the Assassin; Akuri and Mors Martell, both indef blocked by arbitrators as suspicious accounts. All three gradually gravitated towards R&I arbitration proceedings. In December 2012 I already linked to a wikipediocracy posting of Captain Occam in an amendment request. Roger Davies subsequently asked questions about evidence that apparently had been supplied by Occam. This is similar to what has happened between Occam and Wer900. I have been informed that arbitrators are currently discussing those on-wiki and off-wiki issues concerning Occam & Wer900; the name of the arbitrator who initiated those discussions has been passed on to Sandstein.

    2nd reply to Sandstein: Extended topic ban ≠ interaction ban; can discuss conduct of R&I editors only if own conduct mentioned
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    The one-way interaction bans were imposed on Zeromus1 (now indef blocked), The Devil's Advocate and Cla68. Collect also received a logged warning from Future Perfect at Sunrise. The sanctions imposed by arbcom on TrevelyanL85A2 and SightWatcher are extended topic bans identical to those of Ferahgo the Assassin and Captain Occam. I am not aware of anybody describing them as one-way interaction bans. I have previously reported Captain Occam at AE in November 2010; Ferahgo the Assassin in 2010 and January 2012; and TrevelyanL95A2 in September 2012. Nothing much has changed since then, apart from Occam's activity on wikipediocracy (which started in November 2012) and Echigo mole's decision to stop operating sockpuppets.

    Amendment request, 5 December 2012 In some of his most recent edits, 15 edits back, SightWatcher unsuccessfully appealed his extended topic ban. He simultaneously requested TrevelyanL85A2's extended topic ban to be lifted, even though he was indefinitely blocked, as well as the two one-way interaction bans of The Devil's Advocate and Cla68. Arbitrators discussed interaction bans at length without reaching any conclusions. Apart from Occam's recent heightened activity and outing of me on wikipediocracy, very little has happened since then. Wer900 has made his suggestions about bringing me to justice on behalf of Captain Occam for my "ownership of Poland-related articles". However, in my 17,500+ edits I have never edited any articles on Poland.

    Sandstein could seek clarification if he thinks there have been more interactions than one edit in 2013 and my comments here; or if he thinks he can formulate on his own a decision that arbitrators spent over a month debating without coming to any conclusion. So far I have not suggested what result this report might have. I simply have no idea, beyond some form of advice to SightWatcher.

    I currently feel that I am being harassed by Captain Occam and Wer900. I have privately requested help from the arbitration committee about this. SightWatcher's post comes at exactly the same time. In the circumstances, since he is a friend of Occam's girlfriend Ferahgo and has previously edited in support of them (as arbitrators phrased it), it is hard to see his edit as unrelated to the current flurry of vehemently anti-Mathsci postings of Occam and Wer900 on wikipediocracy. As Roger Davies has remarked, Occam's aim has always been to "write Mathsci out of the equation." It's not hard to see why. After all I helped identify dubious accounts such as Zeromus1, Akuri and Mors Martell, as well as the numerous socks of Mikemikev and the "proxy editing" involved in the R&I review.

    @Timotheus Canens: Thank you for clarifying what you had mind in your instruction. My understanding was that it applied only to Cla68 and The Devil's Advocate. Before Timotheus Canens commented I made a request for clarification at WP:ARCA, since Sandstein's interpretation seemed odd. Could Sandstein please explain himself at WP:ARCA? If have no idea why he is pushing for any kind of block or sanction when it reasonable to presume that I did not consider that the instruction applied to SightWatcher. Cla68 decided that it was expedient to suggest the contrary. Usually Cla68's susggestions, which might or might not violate his interaction ban, have been ignored.

    Other admins involved in the December 5 discussion on AE were Seraphimblade (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) and The ed17 (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA).

    Interaction with Cla68 in the last six months? There were no "interactions" in that period. Cla68 was blocked for two and a half months in March, April and May. His edits can be seen here. There were only three pages where we posted in proximity Talk:Akuri (arbcom blocked disruption-only account), the RfAr on BWilkins (=EatsShootsAndLeaves) and the RfAr on wikipediocracy, which was started by Beeblebrox following a request to the oversight team by me. In the first two cases Cla68 posted after me. The third concerned a blog piece about me which I understand Captain Occam and Cla68 helped prepare. Newyorkbrad described it as "not any valid form of Misplaced Pages criticism, it serves no useful purpose, and they ought to get rid of it, not for our sake but for the sake of the reputation of their site and its values."

    PROXY-EDITING. Newyorkbrad has made a long and very insightful statement in the request for clarification. This request concerning SightWatcher concerns his extended topic ban which involves (a) not discussing topics, issues or users related to WP:ARBR&I unless his own conduct has been mentioned and (b) discontinuing from acting as a proxy-editor for banned users. (It is quite distinct from the one-way interaction bans covered by the "instructions" of Timotheus Cannes/Future Perfect at Sunrise. As TC explained below, he formulated those instructions specifically for Cla68 and The Devil's Advocate after trolling by the community banned user Echigo mole/AK.Nole.) Roger Davies referred to this type of proxy-editor as a "DeviantArt recruitee" in the R&I review. Trevelyanl85A2 and SightWatcher were both sanctioned as DeviantArt recruitees. SightWatcher was reported here because in my view his edit violated points (a) and (b).

    Having read what Newyorkbrad, Johnuniq, Sandstein have written subsequently and what Future Perfect at Sunrise, Timotheus Canens, Roger Davies, Risker and other arbitrators have written in the past, I recognize that the best and probably only way of dealing with this type of editing is in private directly with the arbitration committee. "DeviantArt recruitees" present special problems. Accounts of that kind have included Zeromus1, Akuri and Mors Martell. I therefore request administrators here (or arbitrators) to make a new ruling, which could be logged at WP:ARBR&I, of the following kind (or some variant, possibly mentioning penalties for non-compliance):

    If Mathsci suspects that proxy-editing is happening related to WP:ARBR&I and it cannot be dealt with in a standard way at WP:SPI, then it should be reported in private to arbitrators.

    I hope this is a helpful reponse to comments here and at WP:ARCA. There are other types of proxy editing, also related to Captain Occam, for example & and & , but that is a much greyer area.

    SightWatcher's other edits Given his latest edits here and on WP:ARCA, SightWatcher does seem to be continuing to edit on behalf of Captain Occam and Ferahgo the Assassin, as I stated when opening this request. All these edits appear to have been calculated; but the DeviantArt group has made errors. Here, repeating the disruption in his amendment request on 5 December 2012, SightWatcher is again making a request on behalf of othere, including TrevelyanL85A2, an indefinitely blocked account. SW was already warned by arbitrators then that he was not permitted to make requests on behalf of others. Similarly SightWatcher made no comments during the R&I review, despite being invited to comment by arbcom clerks. The DeviantArt group now characterize the review as a personal attack by me and that my references to my efforts in providing on-wiki evidence about proxy-editing was "gloating". My suspicions when I first made this enforcement request have been borne out by these subsequent edits, which both cross a line. Both read like DeviantArt group attempts to "write Mathsci out of the equation". SightWatcher's edits in project space—in particular the Alice-in-Wonderland request about an IBAN with TrevelyanL85A2 for a second time and the gross mischaracterisation of the R&I review—have now become more disruptive than those of TrevelyanL85A2. I am discussing this in private with arbitrators. I don't actually see how it can be discussed here. I assume that administrators here will take into account these further postings of SightWatcher. AE is not the place for back door attempts by Occam & Ferahgo or their DeviantArt recruitees to get failed arbcom motions passed; nor is WP:ARCA a place to reopen or moan about the R&I review.

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Discussion concerning SightWatcher

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by SightWatcher

    The best solution seems like it would be making all of the interaction bans mutual, as Only in death suggested below. There are four editors under one-way interaction bans with Mathsci: me, TrevelyanL85A2, The Devil's Advocate, and Cla68. These bans have caused an immense amount of drama in the past year, and many arbitration requests and AE threads, but making all the bans mutual might finally stop that. -SightWatcher (talk) 20:57, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by Alanyst

    SightWatcher's response to Mathsci reads to me largely as "get off my back, will ya?" with a bit of commentary about how SightWatcher feels the community regards Mathsci's complaints. It does not read to me as an effort to pursue harassment of Mathsci, to engage in debate about race and intelligence, or to fight any kind of battle.

    The text of SightWatcher's R&I topic ban is: "SightWatcher is indefinitely banned from editing and/or discussing the topic of Race and Intelligence on any page of Misplaced Pages, including user talk pages, or from participating in any discussion concerning the conduct of editors who have worked in the topic. This editor may however within reason participate in dispute resolution and noticeboard discussions if their own conduct has been mentioned." Mathsci was the one who mentioned Sightwatcher in the first place, and in my opinion SightWatcher's response was measured and "within reason" as the topic ban allows. I recommend that the requested enforcement action be declined. alanyst 07:04, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by Cla68

    Sandstein, you might should check this. Cla68 (talk) 11:39, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

    Sandstein, interaction bans do not prohibit editors from discussing each other in arbitration forums. By the way, could you please either lift the one-way interaction ban I have with Mathsci or else make it two-way in order to make it fair? Mathsci has sought to interact with me numerous times over the past six months or so even though I have avoided him outside of dispute resolution forums. Your action to level this playing field would be much appreciated. Also, please try to convince him the Captain Occam is not hiding under every pillow in Misplaced Pages and is not hiding somewhere in this thread. Futile gesture, but necessary. Cla68 (talk) 12:10, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

    Comment by uninvolved A Quest for Knowledge

    This is a frivolous request. MathSci opened the door by discussing Sightwatcher's conduct. The terms of Sightwatcher's sanction allow them to respond. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 21:49, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

    @Sandstein: I agree, this should be closed without further action. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 17:24, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by uninvolved Wer900

    I'm sick and tired of Mathsci's rehashing of the Captain Occam brouhaha. Mathsci had already started an AN/I thread against me here, in which I explained that I was merely intending to bring about meaningful reform of Misplaced Pages governance with the case, and that I did not endorse any of Captain Occam's views on race and intelligence. In fact, no "case" or "proxy editing" ever happened; as retold here, the most I ever did was to ask now-blocked Viriditas (talk · contribs), a user whom I respect, whether he wanted to take the case on my behalf given my relative inexperience with those aspects of Misplaced Pages. Viriditas declined to take the case (so Mathsci should stop mentioning him), and on the AN/I extracted a promise that I would not edit on Occam's behalf in any way.

    Now, with the current AN/I circus regarding my perceived incivility against Beeblebrox (talk · contribs), Mathsci has tried to once again take center stage by bringing up the mere shadow of a nonexistent case against him and making all on the thread believe that somehow his words have substance. Furthermore, when I discussed an email from AGK which gave me the right to carry on the "proxy-editing" he so reviles (a right that I most certainly do not intend to exercise, for his clarification), he was whipped up in an even greater tempest. Mathsci, I quote the relevant portion of the email (although it only represents AGK's opinion on the matter, and is general advice rather than a writ of certiorari ):

    Ongoing disputes or grievances can always be brought to arbitration, even if one or more parties is blocked. Arbitration requests by proxy are permissible and, procedurally speaking, simple to arrange. Previously, blocked editors have been allowed to contribute to requests for arbitration by either being temporarily unblocked on condition they edit nothing aside from the arbitration request or by arranging to have an arbitration clerk copy over their statement and supplementary comments from the editor's user talk page.

    Again, Mathsci needs to stop bringing me up in regards to this case, stop creating drama, and accept that my actions were not explicitly prohibited, to the best of my knowledge. For the last time, I will not take the R&I case on behalf of Captain Occam; I hope that I have stated this unambiguously for Mathsci to accept and digest. Wer900 • talk 23:22, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by Only in Death

    Before you get sanction happy on Cla68, the two diffs in Mathsci's first collapsed section (89 and 90 respectively) were the last thing Mathsci posted before Cla68's comment. As they directly refer to Cla68 (in fact they only concern him and no one else named here) he is entitled to some response. Just because he has not been named directly, does not allow Mathsci to bait him in this manner, especially given the terms of the ridiculous one-way interaction ban imposed on them. It is textbook gaming. How many times does this need to be pointed out? One-way interaction bans are a terrible idea. They almost never work given the combativeness of the editors they are usually involved with. Either lift it, or make it two-way for a level playing field. Otherwise you are complicit and enabling what is, at this point in time, Mathsci's hounding of other editors through wikipedia processes. Stick a two-way interaction ban on Mathsci and everyone previously under one-way bans, advise him any further process-requests have to be put through a third party administrator (Its not like he is short on friends to do so) and everyone can go back to editing productively. Only in death does duty end (talk) 09:45, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

    Comment by too stupid to stay out of it NE Ent

    Please see also ANI NE Ent 13:32, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by (other editor)

    Result concerning SightWatcher

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

    As Alanyst points out, the topic ban contains the proviso that "This editor may however within reason participate in dispute resolution and noticeboard discussions if their own conduct has been mentioned." The edit reported here is broadly within the scope of that exception, even if the part about Mors Martell is not. I don't see how this report's repeated mention of the website Wikipediocracy or another user, Captain Occam, has any relevance to the alleged topic ban violation being reported. I'd leave it at a warning to SightWatcher.

    The post by Mathsci to which SightWatcher replied, in which Mathsci seems to allege without evidence some sort of offwiki conspiracy by editors including SightWatcher, does not strike me as helpful in the least. Considering WP:ARBR&I#Mathsci: admonished, we may want to consider a warning or discretionary sanction with regard to Mathsci. As an aside, the general tone of parts of the ANI discussion is appalling and confirms my impression that the whole noticeboard is now much more a source of disruption than a place in which to resolve it.  Sandstein  07:51, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

    Cla68 links to a sanction requiring Mathsci to "refrain from posting further enforcement requests regarding the interaction bans listed here on-wiki without prior private consultation and agreement from an uninvolved adminstrator familiar with the case". Mathsci, who is the administrator, if any, you consulted with in this case?  Sandstein  12:06, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
    Cla68, you are subject to an interaction ban with Mathsci as noted here. Are there any grounds why you should not be sanctioned for violating that interaction ban with your edit above?  Sandstein  12:12, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
    OK, so far, the only actionable conduct apparent to me from this thread is Mathsci making this enforcement request in violation of their restriction from making such requests without the consent of an administrator, and Cla68 pointing out that restriction in violation of their own interaction ban with Mathsci. I can't make heads or tails of Mathsci's convoluted allegations (which far exceed 500 words and aren't read in any detail for that reason alone) regarding other editors including Captain Occam and Wer900, but at any rate these allegations are not supported by any diffs and explanations linking them to any active remedies under an arbitration case. In view of that, making such allegations is disruptive.

    Taking into consideration the respective findings and sanctions as logged on the case page, as well as the lengthy block log of both users, I intend to block both users for two weeks in enforcement of their respective restrictions, if no other uninvolved administrator disagrees. I will also warn SightWatcher that under the terms of their sanction they may respond to mentions on noticeboards only to the extent necessary to address such mentions, and not to address other topics.  Sandstein  23:13, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

    FWIW, when I wrote my original comment in this thread, the bans I had in mind were the ones I imposed. I didn't have SightWatcher's ban in mind. T. Canens (talk) 03:24, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
    Thanks for the clarification. The wording of the sanction, "the interaction bans listed here", isn't very clear about which interaction bans are meant. I'm pinging the other admins who participated in that thread, @Future Perfect at Sunrise:, @John Carter:, @Heimstern: and @ErrantX: to ask them how they understood the restriction and whether they think that Mathsci's making this enforcement request is sanctionable.  Sandstein  06:33, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
    Acknowledging that theoretically the removal of the word "permission" could potentially be wikilawyered to argue that no sort of "permission" was necessarily required, it does seem to me that this request seems to have not been made in accord with that decision, and thus at least potentially sanctionable, although I am not sure how strong those sanctions should be. It might be a good idea to contact User:Seraphimblade, who took part in that discussion, as well. John Carter (talk) 17:50, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
    John: Thanks for the heads up. I was involved in that thread more at the beginning than the end, regarding some actions that had already taken place. As such, I'll defer interpretation of the end result of that thread to those more deeply involved. Seraphimblade 20:28, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
    The original restriction was designed to stop the problem of somewhat frivolous requests/gaming of the system by Mathsci against individuals he is in conflict with. This seems to exactly qualify as one of those such requests, and Mathsci has failed to follow the restriction. IMO it is important to emphasise the Mathsci that starting up the same behaviour as before is strongly discouraged; he has a tendency (IIRC) to use the lack of a sanction as evidence of his being correct or vindicated. What that sanction amounts to I wouldn't like to suggest; personally I got fed up of his constant battleground conduct (whilst ill and somewhat incapacitated, unable to contribute content, he spent a lot of time pursuing his various disputes on here). I've tried to communicate this problem with him, but that gets exhausting so I decline to bother trying again. Someone else's turn :) --Errant 10:42, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
    Thanks, all. At WP:ARCA#Motion: Mathsci interaction bans (Race and intelligence), an arbitrator has proposed banning Mathsci from interacting with, among others, SightWatcher. To the extent I understand this very convoluted drama, this would probably resolve the situation concerning Mathsci's conduct. As concerns Cla68, they are in my view incorrect to assume that "interaction bans do not prohibit editors from discussing each other in arbitration forums". Per WP:BAN#Exceptions to limited bans, what is exempt is only "engaging in legitimate and necessary dispute resolution, that is, addressing a legitimate concern about the ban itself in an appropriate forum". This does not apply to Cla68's statement in this case because the statement does not relate to Cla68's ban. On the other hand, on the clarification page, arbitrator Newyorkbrad expressed the preference that nobody be blocked in this case. Any other opinions?  Sandstein  16:03, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
    Having read this a few times & I see where NYB, Salvio and AGK are coming from. There is a huge mess here (and a huge time sink) some of it caused by the infantile behaviour of individuals harassing Mathsci off-wiki but some caused by the structure of one way interactions bans (which always seem to give one side an illusory sense of righteousness and vindication, which ErrantX mentions above). The mooted two-way IBANs actually obviate the need for action here.

    Mathsci is being tormented both by offsite elements and by his own focus on the issue. He needs to make a clean break on-wiki from all of this (I relaize that this is not easy however it is necessary). The other issues are beyond the competence of any body on wikipedia to deal with at this point (there is no hard evidence of spill over from off- to on- site).

    I agree that Cla68 is out of line BUT I think it would be imbalanced to sanction them alone. Either we block them all or none of them. My preference would be to close this pointing to the clarification thread and its results whatever they may be--Cailil 09:45, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

    The clarification request has concluded with this decision making the existing interaction bans mutual. I understand this decision to prohibit further enforcement requests such as this one. Because everybody seems to be content to leave it at that, I propose closing this request with no further action.  Sandstein  09:23, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
    To general apathy, so done.  Sandstein  19:36, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

    Jamesx12345

    No action against Jamesx12345. SonofSetanta blocked two weeks due to repeated problems in observing his WP:TROUBLES topic ban. EdJohnston (talk) 03:02, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.


    Request concerning Jamesx12345

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    SonofSetanta (talk) 16:31, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Jamesx12345 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration/The_Troubles#Final_remedies_for_AE_case
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 10:09:2013 Revert
    2. 10:09:2013 Revert
    3. 10:09:2013 Revert
    4. Date Explanation
    Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)
    1. Warned on Date by Name of user who made warning 1 (talk · contribs)
    2. Warned on Date by Name of user who made warning 2. If there is no warning 2, delete this entire line (talk · contribs)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    Edit war at Gerry Adams

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    User_talk:Jamesx12345#11_09_2013


    Discussion concerning Jamesx12345

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Jamesx12345

    I appreciate I may be in violation of the revert rule, and am happy to accept the consequences, whatever they may be. However, I would be clear that I was removing edits that went completely against established consensus. I don't feel that I what I did was any different to reverting ordinary vandalism, but am open to correction. It is unfortunate that I was involved in a very similar situation a few weeks ago, which may suggest I am frequently involved in disruptive behaviour, but I hope you will see that is not the case from my archives. James12345 17:46, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by Murry1975

    I was the one who originally revert the newbie (see below for his case), James12345 came across this users further actions and revert using Huggle, using the edit summary "Factual Errors". As far as I am aware, BLP edits that are "of libelous, biased, unsourced, or poorly sourced contentious material" maybe removed, I understand that it is not a get out of jail free card, and can still lead to sanctions on both parties but I believe James was acting in good faith against a newbie pushing his point of view in highly contentious area. A brief look at James' editing shows a constructive editor, on here a little over a year with nearly 14,000 edits and a clear block log. He unfortunately, while acting in good faith reverted too many times, but I believe the exeption should be used due to the single purpose of the newbie account, and James trying to maintain the basic principles of the encyclopedia. Murry1975 (talk) 20:09, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

    Comment made by SoS on MO ainm's tlkpage "but still smarting from a topic ban as I am I'm not going to let a blatant edit war like this go ahead", about this request being made against James. Murry1975 (talk) 15:49, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by (SonofSetanta)

    @Ed Johnston. Misplaced Pages:Banning_policy#Topic_ban makes it clear that there are exceptions to the ban including reverting obvious vandalism which this obviously was. I chose not to make a revert but to bring the case to AE. SonofSetanta (talk) 11:49, 12 September 2013 (UTC)


    Statement by uninvolved A Quest for Knowledge

    Wow, am I reading this correctly? SonofSetanta filed a RfE in an area they're topic-banned from?! Anyway, if I counted correctly, they've already been sanctioned 6 times in this topic-space. Apparently, they haven't learned that they need to drop the stick. I'd suggest a block of maybe a month or so. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 16:51, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

    Result concerning Jamesx12345

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

    • This complaint was filed by SonofSetanta. That editor has been indefinitely topic banned from everything related to the Troubles. His ban applies across all of Misplaced Pages space. He may not file complaints against others regarding their edits to Troubles articles as long as his own ban is still active. I suggest this be closed with a warning or other sanction of SonofSetanta. EdJohnston (talk) 20:28, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
    @SonofSetanta: Your filing here is not covered by the vandalism exception of WP:BAN: "Reverting obvious vandalism (such as replacing a page with obscenities) or obvious violations of the policy about biographies of living persons." Jamesx12345 was not replacing a page with obscenities. In fact, he was restoring the long-term language about Gerry Adams' nationality, though he made the mistake of breaking 1RR while doing so. Questions about someone's nationality are open to reasonable disagreement. Though certain edits may be judged to be tendentious editing, they are not the same as vandalism. There is no exemption from your own topic ban to revert tendentious edits or to report such edits at AE. EdJohnston (talk) 16:08, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
    • I'd suggest tightening the topic ban on SonofSetanta, revoking that standard vandalism/blp exceptions to topic bans. Emphasis that the only permitted edits at all related to The Troubles are appeals of the topic ban, with no other exceptions. Caution Jamesx12345 to exercise more care when using huggle to repeatedly revert edits that are not unambiguous vandalism. Monty845 21:36, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
    @SonofSetanta Could you explain why you created this userpage? Monty845 21:41, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
    The Committee has just declined SonofSetanta's appeal of his Troubles ban so I think it's time for us to close this. My own preference is to issue a logged warning to SoS to observe his Troubles topic ban and issue a block of two weeks or more, since his filing a report here at AE about someone else's behavior on a Troubles article violates the ban. In August he got into arguments at User talk:Sandstein about uploading a Troubles-related image, so he seems to be failing to understand the plain language. I agree with the advice to Jamesx12345 to observe the Troubles 1RR and ask him to reread the definition of vandalism. EdJohnston (talk) 18:34, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
    Agreed, and also with Monty845's suggestion above. As to the actual request concerning Jamesx12345, it does not appear actionable because it does not contain diffs of any prior warning.  Sandstein  19:40, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

    Sisoo vesimhu

    Moot, as Sisoo vesimhu has been indefinitely blocked.  Sandstein 
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    Request concerning Sisoo vesimhu

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    RolandR (talk) 17:45, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Sisoo vesimhu (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:ARBPIA#Discretionary sanctions
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 17:59, 12 September 2013 This edit is a breach of the 1RR restriction, as the editor had previously made the same edit at 22:44, 11 September 2013
    Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)
    1. Warned on 24 January 2013 by Nableezy (talk · contribs)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    There is an ongoing sockpuppetry investigation into this account. Checkuser has already confirmed matching accounts.

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Here


    Discussion concerning Sisoo vesimhu

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Sisoo vesimhu

    there is one edit, and one revert. 2 reverts are required for a breach of 1RR. Sisoo vesimhu (talk) 17:45, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by Sean.hoyland

    See Ed's comment at SPI. Sean.hoyland - talk 15:58, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

    Result concerning Sisoo vesimhu

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

    The diff of the warning is of a warning about discretionary sanctions generally. We'd need a diff of a warning specifically about the 1RR restriction in order for this to be actionable, in my view.  Sandstein  07:57, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

    No, although your diff is of someone else's edit. Contrary to Sisoo vesimhu's statement, both edits were reverts, so this is sanctionable. However, per the SPI discussion, they are likely to be indef-blocked soon, which would make this request moot.  Sandstein  17:54, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
    Diff fixed, thanks. I apparently need more coffee. I agree if they're likely getting indeffed anyway, nothing much to do here. I was more wondering about your opinion on the general principle. Seraphimblade 18:35, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
    Yes, I agree in principle. Closing as moot since Sisoo vesimhu has now been indef-blocked.  Sandstein  19:30, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

    Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Plot Spoiler

    Appeal declined. Seraphimblade 20:07, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
    Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

    To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

    Appealing user
    Plot Spoiler (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – Plot Spoiler (talk) 19:27, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
    Sanction being appealed
    Topic ban from the subject of Palestine-Israel articles, imposed at WP:AE#Plot Spoiler, logged at WP:ARBPIA#Log of blocks and bans
    Administrator imposing the sanction
    Sandstein (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
    Notification of that administrator

    Statement by Plot Spoiler

    I am appealing this arbitration enforcement because I believe the penalty (a three month topic ban) was excessive to the charge. Previous to this block, I had never been topic banned or blocked for more than 36 hours (the last time I was blocked was over a year and a half ago) ). Of the six charges brought by the submitting party, only the first two were deemed to apply, and the closing admin also added a case of WP:close paraphrasing, which was not subject to ARBPIA because it was not in the IP topic area (and was quickly fixed). I also recognized my failures and misunderstanding of certain policies (like WP:SELFSOURCE) -- and I was not edit warring with other parties over this (which if I was would have been sufficient cause for an AE case). It's unclear how the closing admin determined that a three month ban was appropriate (I believe a warning or a short block would have sufficed). I would appreciate if there were greater feedback from other admins, since there was no discussion about what a proper penalty would be before it was levied. Overall, I think this could have been dealt with sufficiently on talk pages or boards other than AE, which unfortunately has become a primary tool of choice for battleground editors to get each other sanctioned. Thanks. Plot Spoiler (talk) 19:27, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

    I would be fine with just a warning :)! In the course of the AE, I have recognized my failures and misunderstanding of certain policies (like WP:SELFSOURCE for sources that wouldn't normally qualify as WP:RS). If I'm totally blocked from the topic area, I don't think I can do much to "demonstrate understanding of the policies at issue", which makes a block seem more punitive than preventative. Plot Spoiler (talk) 21:16, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
    @John Carter, I didn't know that was an option. If @Sandstein finds that more appropriate, I'm happy to have this closed and take it directly to Sandstein's talk page. Plot Spoiler (talk) 21:25, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
    @Sandstein I'm just confused how I'm getting a three month topic ban for a single mistake, when I've never been topic banned before. Aren't warnings (or something like a week topic ban) normal course before such a significant penalty? Isn't it problematic that the submitting editor, Sepsis II, never discussed the issue on my talk page, or the talk page of those given articles, or on an appropriate notice board before taking to AE? It seems dangerous for AE to be the first stop for an editor, and will only encourage more battleground warfare on this page to get editors sanctioned. I understand my failure and I don't see how a three month ban will be instructive, instead of punitive. Plot Spoiler (talk) 22:11, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
    @John Carter, I've seen a number of cases here end in warnings, so I'm a bit confused unless I'm misinterpreting your remarks. Plot Spoiler (talk) 22:59, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
    @Dlv99, you're obviously not one to be commenting given that nearly all your edits are exclusively within the topic area, from a very clear ideological slant i.e. tendentious editor. Exhibit #1 - you delete a press release from a pro-Israeli advocacy group despite the fact that it fulfills WP:SELFSOURCE. You are clearly are applying different criteria to sources from different sides of the conflict. I have recognized my own errors and will go about editing differently. Doesn't seem like you have. Plot Spoiler (talk) 02:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
    @EdJohnston, to be fair, the last time I was blocked was over a year and half ago. To go from a 31 hour block to a 3 month topic ban seems a bit uneven in my view, but your call. Plot Spoiler (talk) 02:12, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by Sandstein

    It appears that the imposition of a sanction is not contested, only its type and length. Because sanctions should be preventative rather than punitive, I prefer imposing topic bans over blocks because the former are limited to the topic are where problems have manifested. As to the appropriate length, that is of course a matter about which opinions may differ. I believe three months are an adequate time in which the appellant may demonstrate their understanding of the policies at issue. If another administrator is of the view that another duration would be substantially more appropiate, I've no objection to them changing the duration. As concerns the time of closure, the request had been open for eight days, which is more than enough for any opinions to be offered (and such opinions are not even necessary as a matter of procedure); and the appellant themselves requested that the request be closed.  Sandstein  21:05, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

    It matters little to me whether the sanction is appealed here or on my talk page, though as far as I'm concerned we might just as well conclude it here. I don't think that I have much more to say about the issue than what I wrote above.  Sandstein  21:40, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by Dlv999

    I don't see any evidence here or in the discussion above of plot spoiler acknowledging the problematic elements of his editing that led Sandestein to conclude that he had engaged in tendentious editing. It is odd, because he can clearly see that the pattern of editing he has engaged in is problematic when he sees it in other editors (quoting from his statements above: "Through Sepsis's own edits, you can clearly see a tendentious inclination of using pro-Palestinian advocacy organizations, while rejecting one's s/he deems pro-Israel", "Furthermore, how do you explain your neutrality based on this sequence of events, in which you are clearly are applying different criteria to sources from different sides of the conflict").

    What I would really like to see is an acknowledgement that he understands why this pattern in his own edits has been viewed as tendentious and a commitment to try and be more balanced/neutral/objective about source selection and application of policy in future, especially when he is editing in topics that he may have strong feelings about. Dlv999 (talk) 00:54, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

    Hi Plot Spoiler. This is the second time you have accused me of tendentious editing without evidence. To substantiate your allegation that I am "clearly are applying different criteria to sources from different sides of the conflict" you would need two diffs, where I have applied different standards to sources, not a single example. Also your response to me indicates that you still do not understand WP:SELFSOURCE and you haven't shown that you understand why your edit pattern has been seen as tendentious. Unfortunately it seems at this stage you are not ready to adapt your edit pattern that led to your topic ban. Dlv999 (talk) 02:49, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by (involved editor 2)

    Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Plot Spoiler

    I commented in the original AE complaint about Plot Spoiler (above) though I did not express opinion on a sanction. With regard to whether the sanction could be shortened here, that is always possible, but I don't think it's necessary. Arbcom itself is the ultimate judge of whether the kinds of sanctions issued at AE are reasonable. Sandstein made a reasonable use of his discretion and I don't see any need to overturn his decision. If there is going to be a topic ban at all, three months is the shortest that is likely to be worthwhile, given how slow the machinery is for imposing and reviewing the sanctions. If Plot Spoiler is concerned he is being sanctioned for a single mistake, a look at his block log should make us aware that he has had previous trouble on ARBPIA articles. EdJohnston (talk) 02:02, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

    Comment by uninvolved A Quest for Knowledge

    I recommend that this request be declined. Three months is not that long and this is not the first time Plot Spoiler has been sanctioned. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 22:24, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

    Result of the appeal by Plot Spoiler

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

    I don't see anything in Plot Spoiler's comment addressing anything other than the length of the sanction, and that is more or less at the discretion of the sanctioning admin anyway. The comment linked to by Sandstein does clearly talk about hoping "this" is closed soon, but seems to be referring to a separate discussion, not this one, so I'm not sure it necessarily applies to this particular request. However, at this point, I can't see any good reason for anyone to think that the ban should be reduced by such an action as this. It is of course always possible for someone to request the sanctioning admin directly to shorten such a sanction, and I think that would probably be the better and more productive approach to this concern. John Carter (talk) 21:22, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

    @Plot Spoiler: I honestly know of very few cases of AE enforcement which don't involve at least a month long sanction. I think I once mentioned a one week sanction in one case because it struck me as being the smallest slap on the wrist I could imagine in such a venue as this. The rest of what you said, though, I'm really not in a position to address one way or another. John Carter (talk) 22:26, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
    @Plot Spoiler: Yeah, a number of cases here have ended in warnings, that's true. But this doesn't seem to have been a case that started here, and, fortunately or unfortunately, I don't think policies and guidelines require that admins need to come here before imposition of sanctions already established by arbitration. In this instance, it looks like Sandstein acted on his own, and, so far as I can tell, within the rules of such sanctions. I honestly don't myself know that there have been frequent successful requests to have sanctions already imposed overturned here, and that seems to be what you're requesting here. I think I have seen, at least a few times, requests at ANI or AN about maybe reducing the terms of sanctions, but that really isn't in the area of "enforcement" of arbitration, and on that basis this page probably isn't the best place to request such. John Carter (talk) 23:18, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
    • Recommend declining this appeal. There are no objective grounds for reducing or overturning sanctions either presented here or in evidence in the closed thread above. A 3 month topic ban is in the lower range of topic bans and is well within sysop discretion--Cailil 00:03, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

    Doncram

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Doncram

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Orlady (talk) 02:51, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Doncram (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Doncram#General editor probation
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

    In the last 24 hours or so, Doncram has breached normal standards of behavior and decorum through personal attacks on multiple other editors, as well as edit warring over whether his new article creations are stubs or start-class. This behavior has caused real damage, including bot operator's decision not to continue work on a bot request related to the WikiProject's actions to solve the issue that was "remanded to the community" in Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Doncram#Stub content debate remanded to community:

    1. Contention at Talk:Eads School Gymnasium over article rating.
    2. Revert war over that rating (Doncram violates 3RR, but he wasn't warned): Coaltownguy, Doncram, Coaltownguy, Doncram, TheCatalyst31, Wizardman, Doncram, Wizardman, Doncram
    3. - In this NRHP WikiProject talk page discussion of whether the Eads gymnasium article is a stub or a start, Doncram lashes out with personal attacks against Orlady (moi) and User:Dudemanfellabra, and apparently accuses User:Coal town guy of being my clone (in "don't egg on another clone like you did egg on S. and also egg on P., imho"). Both Coal town guy and User:Wizardman announce their intention to stay away from the Wikiproject.
    4. 16 September 2013 - Doncram entered discussion (where he had not been previously involved} at User_talk:TonyTheTiger regarding Tony's accusations of racism against other editors, and gave Tony the potentially fan-flaming advice that "it seems reasonable ... to begin to assume something awful like racial discrimination going on." Also said User:Crisco 1492 should "back the hell off".
    5. Withdrawal of User:Hasteur from plan to run an "NRIS-only" bot to flag minimally sourced stubs for the NRHP Wikiproject, apparently responding to the displays at Eads Gymnasium and the Wikiproject talkpage.
    6. Doncram warns another user against Orlady in the same style he employed in numerous similar personal attacks prior to the Arbcom case.
    Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (not required in this instance)
    1. Several admonishments by various users are included on the pages linked above. Also see
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    I didn't want to come here. I was looking around to find someone Doncram respects who is currently active here to ask them to give him some "word to the wise" advice when I saw the evidence of the damage his recent behavior has done to the NRHP Wikiproject. After seeing that, I concluded that this behavior warrants a more vigorous response than mere advice. -- Orlady (talk) 02:51, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

    I am disappointed by Doncram's initial statement (which I acknowledge is likely to be revised or supplemented). The warring over whether an article is a stub or a start-class, together with Doncram's unilateral effort to prevent the wikiproject from having assessment criteria or tagging articles with sourcing issues, has been disruptive and is a concern. However, that pettiness is hardly the only issue here.

    Doncram's persistence in personalizing content discussions -- a pattern I've seen for more than 5 years -- is poisonous. The personal attacks -- the assertions that other users have "weird" or racist motivations, the allegations that other users are "egging on other editors" for the purpose of "construct contention" or "harass" Doncram -- are unacceptable and need to stop. His statement here and his recent actions on talk pages suggest to me that he not only doesn't recognize that his "when faced with adversity, assume bad faith" attitude is a problem, but that he thinks it's absolutely the right filter for interpreting other users' behavior. --Orlady (talk) 16:52, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

    @The Devil's Advocate: I'm not aware of any restriction against my participating in RM discussions that were highlighted on a noticeboard that I have watchlisted, such as Freemasonry or in visiting (and fixing problems I see) at articles identified in an active Wikiproject discussion like this one. And after some other very recent discussions on article ratings with Coal town guy ( ), it didn't even occur to me that his query on the NRHP talk page might be related to an article by Doncram. --Orlady (talk) 01:16, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

    Note: User:Orlady and User:The Devil's Advocate have had little or no interaction outside of this Arbcom case. The only other identifiable interaction was at Template:Did you know nominations/The Hole (Scientology) on 21 February 2013. --Orlady (talk) 16:05, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Discussion concerning Doncram

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Doncram

    I have been notified and will respond later. However real life obligations intervene, with deadlines that I must meet through Thursday, and I cannot respond fully for a few days. I don't think there is anything extremely urgent that must be addressed here, and I won't be editing elsewhere.

    Extremely briefly, though: it seems inappropriate for editors from one wikiproject, who are in the process of redefining what a Start rating means for their wikiproject, to change other Wikiproject's ratings, and I think especially not to change a named AFC editor's rating. I opened discussion about this at a Talk page and discussed this clearly, and I reverted changes of the AFC editor's AFC rating, but did not revert the NRHP wikiproject rating. Hasteur noted, I think directed at CTG changing the rating: " Please for the love of DIETY do not edit war over the evaluation that a member of the AfC project gave to a page. If you disagree with the rating given on behalf of your project, feel free to change it, but each project has it's own rubric over what constitutes the various classes." For my objecting to an editor changing the AFC editor's rating (which seems like editing the AFC editor's Talk page comments to say something different than what the AFC editor said), an Arbitration Enforcement?

    Briefly about User:TonyTheTiger, contrary to Orlady and Crisco 1492's statements, I have previously advised/commented to TTT in the FourAward discussion (i believe at TTT's Talk and at one or more ANIs and at wt:fouraward). And I absolutely do not and did not condone accusations of racism. The assertions regarding that, here are out of context and misleading. I can comment more about that later, if necessary, but it seems unfortunate to drag TTT and Crisco and others into the NRHP topic area, it really seems unrelated.

    About other issues raised I will comment later. --doncram 06:53, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by Hasteur

    I have elected to withdraw from the NRHP project for a multitude of reasons, but in specific the Toxic and disruptive environment presented against Doncram (with specific notice to the last 24 hours of content) is the straw to break the camel's back. Early on in the BotReq phase of the request for the NRIS-only tagging, Doncram attempted to insert such complications that would make it nearly impossible for a repeated and mundane process to be able to accomplish the stated goal (Misplaced Pages:Bot requests/Archive 56#Bot to tag articles only sourced to National Register Information System). Once the process moved forward into the BRFA thread Doncram tried to load the process down with additional tasks that would again make the bot's task impossible without adding a great amount of complexity and subsequently making it a loosing proposition for any Bot Operator to take up the task. As there were veiled threats of bulk undoing and contestations of consensus, I only considered it right to remove the rapidty from the equation. At this point, any editor could re-construct the list for calculating the matching articles without using a bot account to edit. I have attempted to give Doncram the benefit of the doubt by viewing pages that he has submitted for creation as neutrally as possible. In some cases this means approval and movement into mainspace (such as Kilauea Plantation). In others this means declining the pseudo-AfC and attempting to get more. I've watched various projects and associations of editors clash with Doncram with the percieved result of Doncram continues much in the same way whereas the other side becomes demoarlized and conceeds the point in face of the mass changes that Doncram leads in the consensus of 1. Hasteur (talk) 03:30, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

    I've been asked to clarify my meanings, which is reasonable given my editing after I had start to head to bed.
    "Toxic and disruptive environment presented against Doncram" - this phrase is attempting to indicate that Doncram's actions have created a Toxic and disruptive environment.
    I reserve the right to further clarify. Hasteur (talk) 12:58, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
    @Sanderson: I agree that the topic ban ideas may be appropriate, but I note that Doncram has already been warned and reminded without (what I would consider) significant improvement. For this reason I consider that a wiki-holiday length break will only defer the disruption instead of prevent it.Hasteur (talk) 19:19, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by TheCatalyst31

    After the Arbcom case closed, I reviewed a lot of Doncram's articles and tried to improve his contributions. It seemed to be going well at first, but over the past few months he's been making all kinds of problematic edits. There was this borderline vandalism edit back in June. There was this insinuation that I "would have to be incredibly bizarre" to question his work after I pointed out that he didn't appear to have read a document he cited. There was this post, which simultaneously attacked writers of long articles and "some weirdly anti-NRHP people", which seems to be directed at Orlady. There's the overrating of his own articles, which started back in August and has been going on since. There's an edit that appears to imply that editors he doesn't like would have to worry about being punched in the face at a meetup. There's the "some dumb Queen Anne style house in a remote rural area" comment, which was another attack on writers of longer articles and upset Coal town guy, who's from a rural area. And now there's his latest attack on Orlady and Coal town guy, which has driven three editors away from WikiProject NRHP and is exactly the kind of behavior he was warned against. This kind of behavior has been causing all kinds of trouble for WikiProject NRHP, and something needs to be done to get it to stop (and based on past experience, admonishment isn't going to work). TheCatalyst31 04:36, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

    Regarding Sandstein's question, I'd be satisfied with an escalating series of topic bans along the lines of what Smallbones is proposing, provided it's enforced properly. Doncram's unwillingness to listen or follow consensus and his continual arguing over certain matters tend to be the root of these problems, and if he can't cooperate with other NRHP editors he shouldn't be allowed to work on NRHP-related topics. Enforcement is key, though; if Doncram continues to make occasional disruptive comments for a month until someone decides to do something, this probably won't help much. TheCatalyst31 18:28, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by Crisco 1492

    TonyTheTiger and I, as is plastered throughout much of the WP namespace, have been having a falling-out since June/July. Doncram, to the best of my knowledge, has not been previously involved in any of the discussions regarding this, be it one of three on ANI (links later if required) or at WT:FOUR. As such, I find it concerning that his initial reaction was (to paraphrase) "Yeah, Tony, someone might be out to get you". Regarding Doncram's comment there, I found it to be implying (very obliquely) that I may have racist tendencies, at least where TTT is concerned, as he writes "weird (possibly discriminatory) opposition in stuff going on (which i personally ascribed a lot to editor crisco"), suggesting that "discriminatory" opposition is being caused by me. I fail to see why Doncram has decided to insert him/herself here, and fail to see why Doncram finds it necessary to bring me back to a discussion which I had already left for two days. As for the use of the word "hell", I don't find it that troubling, nor threatening, though I appreciate that some editors may. If Doncram's actions are indeed against probationary sanctions which have previously been enacted, then enforcement should be undertaken. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:34, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

    @Doncram: Hence why I said "to the best of my knowledge". I have stricken my interpretation of your comment, but please understand that was my first reading based on the collocation of my name and "possibly discriminatory". — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:27, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by Choess

    In light of the history between Orlady and Doncram, I feel I should point out that I independently came to the same conclusion regarding that advisability of sanctions. I think the diffs above largely speak for themselves. This is the culmination of five years or so of tension, wherein Doncram has created an enormous volume of very short articles on NRHP-listed properties and resisted the increasingly forceful efforts of other editors on the topic to make him improve his articles or to clean them up in an organized fashion. Because of this history of acrimony, Doncram now attributes criticism of his methods to the machinations of a few particular editors, which has seriously disrupted collaboration at WP:NRHP. Choess (talk) 06:16, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

    Well, so far Doncram's reponse seems to have been this edit, removing what seems to be a sound paraphrase to replace it with his cut-and-paste quotes from the NRHP nomination statement. I understand that he's personally uncomfortable with synthesizing multiple sources and paraphrasing, and that he's gotten more grief than other editors would because of that writing style. But preventing others from improving the articles he creates, and his unwillingness to discuss his methods or compromise, are a real problem. At this point, I think a topic ban from NRHP material is the most reasonable solution. Choess (talk) 06:34, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by TonyTheTiger

    I interact with Doncram for advice on National Register of Historic Places articles and help him out with photo needs as I am able. Recently Doncram has interacted with me in an attempt to stabilize WP:FOUR when it first got rocky about two months ago. He has helped keep me level-headed in regards to a turbulent situation. In general I find him to be quite productive. I briefly looked at some of the edits above. I side with the stub viewpoint in the stub/start war above. Personally, I find a start/stub ratings disagreement not worth getting hung out to dry over. I would advise him to let ratings slide when he encounters vigorous opposition from multiple parties. In regards to his comments on my most recent blow up with Crisco, I found him to be supportive of my claims in a way that may have been offensive to my detractors. Nonetheless, I appreciate his empathy. I thinks it would be great if this tag team could ease up on Doncram and let him go on doing his fine work here on our national monuments and landmarks.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 06:39, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by Smallbones

    I've been one of Doncram's few supporters at WP:NRHP, in general I agree with his aims, if not his style. The ongoing problem over several years has been that he just can't get along with other editors. I do see some ganging up on him and he is not always in the wrong, but he fails to go along with consensus, most of the time just arguing ad naseum I've proposed at WT:NRHP that he receive a one-week topic ban for this disruption, followed by a two-week topic ban if it happens again, with a doubling of the length of the topic ban each additional time he causes disruption. This should concentrate his mind on ways to avoid disruption, or give us some peace at WP:NRHP. The choice would be up to Doncram. Smallbones(smalltalk) 18:34, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by The Devil's Advocate

    Once more, I would like to reiterate that Orlady should stay away from Doncram. She was already strongly urged to do so by Errant after dragging Doncram to ANI because . . . wait for it . . . she thought his user talk page was too long. This was after she had taken the lead in going after Doncram for the start-stub dispute ( ). Despite Errant's admonishment she has continued stalking his contributions ( ) in addition to her usual role in fanning the flames of disputes with Doncram at the NRHP wikiproject. I know she claims that she did not know the Eads Gymnasium article was one of Doncram's contributions, but it seems unlikely that she did not at least suspect it since she had previously commented on an Eads church article that she presumably knew was contributed by Doncram as she had looked at the revision history.

    Unfortunately, it is very hard to deal with this situation because any sanctions would have to come through some other forum as there is no authorization under the ArbCom case for resolving this persistent problem of Orlady's harassment. I will say, my impression is that stub-class is meant for articles that are one or two sentences long, not articles that are a good-sized paragraph long and certainly not any longer than that. Additionally, I think the proposal for a bot adding clean-up tags is absurd and seems pretty unusual. I don't know of any bots that perform such a pointless task and given the way some editors seek to denigrate Doncram's contributions it does not surprise me that he would take personal offense. Orlady's involvement in fanning the flames is just making it all the more difficult for him to keep cool.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 21:51, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

    Orlady, you can give all the excuses and evasive arguments you like, but the reality is that you regularly put yourself at the forefront of any complaint against Doncram no matter how frivolous, such as that nonsense over his user talk page. Your very participation at the NRHP project is motivated by your vendetta against Doncram. Oh and exactly when did you watchlist the Freemasonry Wikiproject? Did it happen to be around the time you were feuding with Doncram over his contributions in that topic area? Looking over your contributions it seems you never touched that project or the topic area until Doncram became prominently involved in it back in 2010. Sorry, but noticing something concerning the target of your harassment on a page you watchlisted because the target of your harassment was involved there once does not magically make it not harassment. Many stalkers and harassers find ways to work their way into their target's everyday activities so they can provide an innocent cover for their actions.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 04:20, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

    @NW, my comment may be too blunt for you, especially since you were reluctant to take substantive action against anyone harassing Doncram, but it is no less truthful and is most certainly relevant. Orlady seems to think that Doncram coming across a page she has on a watchlist means she is not engaged in harassment by opposing him there, even if the page is only on her watchlist because Doncram had previously been there. Anyone who knows anything about harassment knows that harassment often involves following places a person has previously been in case they show up there again. Orlady is bringing this case here and citing comments about her as part of the basis for sanctions so her treatment of him is pertinent.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 20:00, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

    Unlike some on this site I do not use these terms lightly, NW. This is real-life. A real human being is on the other end of that screen name. It doesn't trivialize in-person stalking to suggest that the same behaviors can be exhibited online and have the same emotional consequences.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 20:50, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

    @Cailil, I believe barring Doncram from the NRHP area would be excessive and harmful to the project given that it is his primary contribution here. Were you to look over most of his articles you would see not even a hint of the problems his opponents have regularly cited against him. If your main concern is the dispute over classifications of articles then you can simply bar him from changing and adding such classifications himself.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 16:18, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

    Sandstein, my suggestion for barring Doncram from changing article classifications is much clearer and would be targeted rather than ham-fisted. As to your excessive suggestion to block me, I did not call Orlady a stalker or accuse her of stalking. I am accusing her of harassment. When I said "stalkers and harassers" I was including her in the latter group, not the former.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 22:11, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by Acroterion

    The contention is an outgrowth of the effort by the NRHP project to implement Remedy #6 of the arbitration conclusion, in which the community was advised to set standards for stub creation. This has led to a focus on consistent standards for article rating, and scrutiny of newly created articles and their ratings. The emphasis of this effort is broader than simply deciding what constitutes a stub, it is intended as a focused article improvement and expansion effort, supported by bot tasks to gather information on minimally-sourced stubs. While on a small scale it's not important whether a given article is rated a stub or a start, and in my opinion not worth a single revert, much less an edit war, the larger effort is necessary and appropriate as Misplaced Pages matures. Arguments over a stub/start evaluation are characteristic of the minimalist approach adopted by Doncram. Doncram is capable of producing detailed, quality articles, but prefers a broad-brush approach that emphasizes quantity over quality, and he appears to view the quality improvement initiative and stub scrutiny as criticism of his effort, which to some degree it is, given that it's an result of the previous arbitration proceeding. If the small, and largely meaningless step from stub to start is so contentious, what about real improvement to B and beyond?

    Some of the problem is the result of AfC ratings that don't coincide with the goals of the NRHP project, and of course we can all find dozens of articles throughout the wiki that are rated as B when they're no better than starts. I'm fairly cynical about the accuracy of any individual rating, but the larger effort is important and the disruption to that effort is undermining a larger benefit to the encyclopedia.

    I've generally supported Doncram more than many participants in NRHP, but I find his attitude toward other editors and toward criticism, either explicit or implied, to be frustrating and divisive. I endorse Smallbones' proposed remedy as a way of allowing the work of the encyclopedia to proceed: no one editor should be able to disrupt basic article improvement initiatives or to affect what should be a dispassionate evaluation of articles and their state of development. Acroterion (talk) 15:28, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by Cla68

    NuclearWarfare, instead of spending so much time criticizing DevilsAdvocate's statement, why don't you first work through if what he is saying is true? Is Orlady following Doncram around Misplaced Pages and trying to find reasons to get him banned or bait him into reacting to her? If so, are you going to do anything about it? Please look at the evidence before picking a side. Cla68 (talk) 22:25, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by Nyttend

    Let me simply remind the AE admins that this project has long experienced serious strife, with the singular exception of a period running from late December 2011 until late June 2012. Few or no problems occur in discussions in which Doncram is uninvolved (see the WT:NRHP thread on "Cedar Point Light"; we don't all agree, but it's calm and peaceful), but his actions and his methods of interacting with other users generally produce the problems. Language such as "egging another editor on" (without evidence) and characterisation of other editors' statements as "indictments" that are "pretty hurtful, and pretty immature, and pretty short-sighted" has persisted since before the Arbcom case, as has his pattern of bothering other users to the point that they take down useful resources when he's used those resources in a way that produces strife. This was the kind of stuff that was supposed to be stopped by the case's restrictions. Nyttend (talk) 03:33, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

    Result concerning Doncram

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

    Waiting on Doncram's statement. Meanwhile, could the editors who ask for administrator action please recommend which action they deem appropriate, and why?  Sandstein  06:22, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

    @The Devil's Advocate: There's a line and you're crossing it with "Many stalkers and harassers find ways to work their way into their target's everyday activities so they can provide an innocent cover for their actions." NW (Talk) 16:14, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
    Yes. Let's talk about what stalking is. It is not Misplaced Pages:Stalking. That term has been deprecated since 2005 for good reason, because it seriously trivializes abuse that actual real life victims must face. NW (Talk) 20:17, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
    • I have to say that nobody is coming out of this looking good. Doncram's behaviour is in breach of the RFAR, and it does look like Orlady is following him. Then we have TTT and Crisco carrying on their dispute with each other here by proxy. Certainly the evidence is such that I suggest Doncram should be excluded from the NRHP area broadly construed for an indefinite period (and if the same argument re: classification of start or stub class articles begins elsewhere i would strongly advise him not to repeat this behaviour). Furthermore a two-way IBAN for Orlady and Doncram seems necessary. Certainly a one way IBAN can be issued to Doncram but we would need to go to WP:ARCA to see if the Committee would allow it to go two ways?
      However, I'd echo NW re: TDA's allegation of vendetta and stalking. There is a profound difference between cyberstalking and wikihounding. Using the term "stalking" for effect is not helpful in describing wikihounding and implies an element of criminal behaviour that is neither there nor appropriate to allege. There are legitimate concerns about Doncram's behavoiur (even expressed by those who agree with his points of argument) but I do think an IBAN would resolve many issues here--Cailil 13:58, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
    • I would support a suitably-tailored restriction that would keep Doncram from undoing a Wikiproject consensus. User:Cailil's view that Doncram should be excluded from the entire NRHP area is one way of doing that. I suggest hearing from more people before the exact form of any restriction is decided. Arbcom already made Findings of Fact in the case about Doncram engaging in 'uncollegial behavior' and 'repeatedly creating articles with placeholder text and stubs with insufficient context..' They also banned him from making new submissions directly in article space. Revert warring on the rating of his own submissions certainly fits the pattern of behavior that Arbcom found fault with. It's reasonable that AE admins could adopt measures that are sufficient to keep these problems from continuing. EdJohnston (talk) 16:21, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
    • I agree with Cailil that there is poor behavior all around.
    • Orlady: In Orlady's request, several points of evidence are not diffs of edits by Doncram, but edits by somebody else, and in most cases it remains obscure to me how even the edits by Doncram could constitute sanctionable misconduct. There are many broad allegations, but little hard evidence. I'm open to evidence that her conduct constitutes wikihounding, but I don't find such evidence here (in the form: he makes edit A, she immediately follows up with edit B), and also this case does not contain remedies concerning conduct by editors other than Doncram and somebody who hasn't appeared here.
    • Doncram: But the evidence of edit-warring by Doncram is clear, and this is sanctionable misconduct. A NRHP topic ban appears appropriate in reaction to it. I'm not a fan of overly elaborate restrictions like one that "would keep Doncram from undoing a Wikiproject consensus". Complicated restrictions are complicated to enforce. Also, that sounds like a content-based sanction, and we don't do content dispute resolution here.
    • The Devil's Advocate: As Nuclear Warfare said, it is egregious misbehavior by The Devil's Advocate to accuse Orlady of what sounds like real-life stalking: "Many stalkers and harassers find ways to work their way into their target's everyday activities so they can provide an innocent cover for their actions." These are unacceptable personal attacks and aspersions, and a block appears in order in reaction to them (under normal admin authority, because the remedy covers Doncram only).
    Essentially, this is, as depressingly usual on this page, just a bunch of people so tied up in their petty feuds that they lose all sense of scope and proportion. A round of bilateral interaction bans could help address this, but would not be covered by the remedy. Does anybody believe that an escalation to ArbCom to seek broader sanctions would help?  Sandstein  19:25, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
    • In fact a ban of Doncram from NRHP topics is the obvious choice; I just wanted to leave it open what the best restriction was going to be. When I reviewed WP:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Doncram I at first thought that Arbcom was deferring all the real decisions. But in fact, a read of the FOFs and the restrictions on Doncram gives a good feeling for their direction and intentions. It should be possible for the AE admins in September to enforce whatever thinking Arbcom had in March without an immediate return trip. Anyone who thinks that editors on the other side (such as Orlady) are likely to be restricted if the matter returns to the Committee won't be encouraged by reading the discusion of Orlady on the proposed decision page, including the comments left after each vote. EdJohnston (talk) 21:50, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
    • I'm inclined to agree that an indefinite topic ban on Doncram from NHRP related subjects, broadly construed, is going to be necessary here. I am, however, hesitant to find fault with Orlady. While her ANI filing about archiving the talk page was not the best judgment, there's already been a trout issued for that, and unless that can be shown to be a pattern, I'm not inclined to find such to be sanctionable (under normal admin authority, since the ArbCom decision authorized discretionary sanctions against only Doncram). It is generally not considered stalking to keep an eye on an editor's behavior when their edits have in fact been problematic, and I'd have to see more evidence of wrongdoing or ill intentions on Orlady's part beyond that to consider requesting sanctions from ArbCom. Seraphimblade 21:56, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

    Appeal by Jiujitsuguy

    Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Jiujitsuguy

    Appealing user
    Jiujitsuguy (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)


    Sanction being appealed

    https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=503267313&oldid=503208820


    Administrator imposing the sanction
    T. Canens.


    Notification of that administrator


    Statement by Jiujitsuguy

    Per the advice and constructive criticism offered by Stifle and concurrence of Cailil I am resubmitting my appeal. In the break between my last appeal and the instant one, I have created articles and added content on a variety of subjects including archeology, orthopedics, military history and weapon systems. I have edited constructively, in a collegial, collaborative and non-confrontational manner. I understand now that my previous editing pattern was abrasive and tendentious. In addition, rather than seeking to reconcile differences with a colleague with whom I was having a dispute, I moved too quickly to AE, which was entirely inappropriate. AE should never be used as a tool to silence anyone and should be avoided when possible. I will try hard not to repeat the past mistakes that have led me to the instant topic ban, now in its 14th month.

    I also wish to offer my sincerest apologies to T. Canens for misconstruing his disciplinary actions and acting with haste in making groundless accusations against him. I blame my lack of maturity for the tasteless outburst and I am embarrassed by it.

    I sincerely hope that in light of my constructive editing, the fact that I've expressed contrition and recognize my mistakes, the fact that I’ve embraced the suggestions of the aforementioned syops rather than arguing with them, the fact that I’ve already been banned for a year and two months and the fact that I have zealously adhered to the provisions of the topic ban, that the ban be lifted. Whichever way you decide, I thank you for taking the time to consider my appeal and will of course respect your decision. I do however, hope that you will look favorably upon it. Thank you.


    Discussion

    Result of appeal by Jiujitsuguy