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OP title translation

In Chinese writing system burrowed by Japanese and Korean(use similar sentence structure-SOV, frontier words describe letter word), their word has different order even they are composed of Chinese characters, and conjunction is none in normal. So, I think 弓矢 means "Arrow(s) of Bow(s)"(determining multiplicity needs whole context), And Koreans(Twice, Japanese and Korean language are similar structure than other languages) translate it as.-I think that was translated as it because google translate do this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.183.129.221 (talk • contribs) 17:25, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Jaeger or Yeager?

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

We're using "Yeager"—Ryulong (琉竜) 05:45, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

What is Eren's actually surname in english? Jaeger(German for "Hunter") or Yeager(American transcription of Jaeger)?--FonFon Alseif (talk) 11:23, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

This blog post by Kodansha claims it is "Jaeger", but according to this edit, it's "Yeager". I don't own the manga, so I can't provide further input. ーHigherFive 12:57, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

I think i'll change it to Jaeger since that's what Crunchyroll is using.--FonFon Alseif (talk) 05:38, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

It's like asking "It's Titan or Eothens?".Ald™ ¬_¬™ 20:14, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

My suggestion is that it should be Jäger. That article seems fairly self-explanatory. Especially the bit of it being a common German surname. The author may have been going for a German naming theme since some of the other characters also follow this trend. ーKirtZJ 16:00, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

In the english manga edition the aftername of Eren is called Eren Yeager. In the german manga edition it is called Jäger, which means Hunter in english. In some subtitled anime version it is called Jaeger, which is the same like Jäger, because you can write ae for ä. The english transcription of Yeager instead of Jaeger was probably choosen because most english speakers don´t know the correct german pronunciation of the umlaut ä = ae, which is similiar to the pronunciation of the english word Yeah, which sounds like Jäh in german.

You can find the name of Eren Yeager in the english manga version in the "Look inside!" of the "Attack on Titan 2" at Amazon.com.

--MBelzer (talk) 18:07, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

This is an obsolete discussion and probably should be removed. "Yeager" was the agreed upon consensus below. KirtZ 22:55, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Shingeki no Kyojin: Before the Fall (Light Novel)

Just found out about a Light Novel about the series exists. Written by Suzukaze Ryo and illustrated by Thores Shibamoto it is set before the events of the manga. Book's available on amazon, English synopsis can be found online.

Info about the Novel should be added to the article about Attack on Titan#Media, but I don't feel knowledgeable enough to edit it in :

I went ahead and added the information with a citation. <KirtZJ> 02:29, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

The side bar info thing for the manga adaptation isn't really correct. Ryō Suzukaze isn't the author, as he's not the one drafting it. So it should be changed to Satoshi Shiki. -nz 06:33, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

Spelling issues

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

We're going with Kodansha's spellings, "Yeager", "Zoë Hange", and "Levi".—Ryulong (琉竜) 05:46, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

For the past several weeks months there have been issues regarding exactly how we should be spelling Eren's surname Yēgā in English. This is compounded by the fact that the two companies handling localization are spelling the names completely differently. The manga by Kodansha USA uses "Yeager" and the subtitled anime by Funimation (posted on Crunchyroll) uses "Jaeger". Which spelling has precedence over the other? Which one should we use on Misplaced Pages?

A similar issue arises with Hanji Zoe, who is called "Zoë Hange" by Kodansha USA and I'm assuming "Hanji Zoe" by Funimation. Also Rivai with the choices being "Levi" or "Rivaille" (again I'm not sure which is found in which).

We need to come to a concrete solution as to how we write these names because it is just getting annoying when someone comes along and is used to one of the other forms and changes everything without discussion. This was a problem with FonFon Alseif and now with a new anon IP.—Ryulong (琉竜) 06:47, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Ok, first thing first. I don't like the way you accuse me on my user page of playing around with Eren's surname by claiming i had two people changing it back and forth on the Attack on Titan article. I only do my wikipedia edits at my home PC and was away at work when this happen. So i'm not sure how i can be responsible when i just got back from work and these two people you mentioned are from two different countries according to their IP addresses so there it's unlikely they knew each other. Secondly, you claim i just open this section now to discuss this topic after what these two people earlier did when in reality this section has always existed since April 20, 2013. I have already repeatedly ask you to come to the Attack on Titan Talk page so we discuss about the topic with other users of how should Eren's surname be spelled on this article. Yet you ignored me and didn't bothered to discuss about this topic until now. --FonFon Alseif (talk) 08:21, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Two separate people decided to use "Yeager" in the past two weeks. and do not reformat my comments to connect this discussion with the last one that did not have any sort of conclusion without my permission. I will not allow you to reformat my comments to suit whatever you want. And I am not claiming that you are two separate IP addresses. I stated that myself and one of the IP addresses have both went with Kodansha's spelling forms, and then you changed it back, and then we reverted, and you reverted it again. And as this goes beyond Yeager vs. Jaeger, it is best we discuss this in a new thread. But let's not dwell on this meta bullshit any longer.

So, as I initially intended with this new thread, which set of spellings we should be using? Kodansha's Yeager, Rivaille, Zoë Hange, etc., or Funimation/Crunchyroll's Jaeger, Levi, Hanji Zoe, etc. Both are official. Both have equal levels of usage amongst reliable sources (as they are the only reliable sources really). And we cannot base our decision on which the fandom prefers over the other.—Ryulong (琉竜) 08:49, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

First, i want to apologize for earlier since i had a bad day and then i read your message and thought you were accusing me of trying to play around with the article by pretending or hiring someone else which made me upset. Now that i have cool off i realize i had no right to be angry with you during that time when i should have read carefully so i'm sorry. As for your inquiry why did i change the edits on the surname, until there is consensus among everyone over how should we call the main character's surname, the name will stay unchanged for the time being. Now i have to go somewhere to treat my headache so i'm might not be available during this discussion. --FonFon Alseif (talk) 14:13, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. And this goes beyond Jaeger/Yeager so we need to have some sort of discussion as to whether or not we go with Kodansha or Funimation.—Ryulong (琉竜) 14:29, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

These are just some brainstorming suggestions so feel free to shoot them down.

• Until this matter can come to some kind of concrete agreement can't we temporarily use the naming schemes for which ever company first started releasing the media into the English-speaking world whether it be the manga by Kodansha or the anime by Funimation. We may be able to avoid or at least dampen the extent to which the names are changed.
• CR is streaming the series as well although I don't know what names they use since I don't watch their subs of this anime. But if they use the same names as Kodansha OR Funimation and not both in a mixed mesh, we could go with those names since they'd most likely be the most popular ones in the English-speaking world. I think I recall this somewhere in the MoS although I may be remembering wrongly. KirtZJ 19:09, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Kodansha has apparently started first with "Yeager" and "Zoe Hange" etc. but people really like the fan scanlations and fansubs' translations which is causing problems. I can't watch Crunchyroll or Funimation over here so I can't test this.—Ryulong (琉竜) 15:34, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Well, essentially the question is "Which translation is 'more correct'?" Obviously Eren's last name comes from the German word "Jäger," as was previously stated, which would be the "most correct" translation. According to the Misplaced Pages page on "Ä," however, "ae" is an appropriate substitute for "Ä" in countries that don't have "Ä" in their alphabet in the same way that "ue" is an appropriate substitute for "Ü" (Führer vs. Fuehrer, for example). In my opinion, anyone using "Yeager" is just being stubborn because they read the manga; it's like arguing that Zoro from One Piece should be spelled "Zolo" because that's how it was in the first volume of the manga (or even more, I don't know, I never read past that), when in reality "Zoro" is the "more correct" translation. Basically what I'm getting at is it should either be spelled "Jäger" (because that's the original German word), or it should be "Jaeger" (because it's considered an appropriate substitute of the spelling for foreign languages). There is little to no reason to be using "Yeager." Those arguing for "Yeager" are arguing for the "original version" of the text, which just goes against them since "Yeager" isn't the original word. It's a stupid argument, and quite frankly "Yeager" looks stupid. Kodansha even used "Jaeger" on one of their announcements on their site here --Zanzors (talk) 16:35, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Apparently in printed copies it is different, and "Eren Yeager" is used in the English volumes. "Jaeger" is used by Crunchyroll. We need to determine which has greater preference.—Ryulong (琉竜) 16:14, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

In June, the official Japanese Twitter account for the manga posted this stating that the official English forms are "Eren Yeager", "Mikasa Ackerman", "Armin Arlert", and "Levi".—Ryulong (琉竜) 16:20, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Two things: I should've worded it better in my argument that it does not matter what the official English version is, what matter is the correct and intended English version. If the author wrote it using a German word that was then transcribed into Japanese characters, wouldn't you just write it in German with the original Latin characters when translating it back into English? It honestly just doesn't make sense to me. And secondly, I thought most people here in the Talk section already expressed their preference in "Jaeger." --Zanzors (talk) 16:35, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Like KirtZJ said, we should get someone who watches the show on Funimation's website to see what translation they are using for the names and use them for this Misplaced Pages. Even if it doesn't match what the official Japanese Twitter said, we will have to use the Funimation version just like how Detective Conan is called Case Closed over here and the main character's name is Jimmy Kudo even though his actually name in Detective Conan is Shinichi Kudo.--FonFon Alseif (talk) 16:42, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Zanzors, no. The official English version takes precedence over anything else because your "correct and intended English version" is in violation of WP:OR. While we can postulate that Hajime Isayama was thinking of the German word "Jäger" when coming up with Eren's surname, we cannot state this without a reliable source that points this out. Additionally, it cannot be used as it is not the most common name in reliable sources. Right now, this is a toss up between "Yeager", announced by the official Japanese Twitter and in use in print by Kodansha USA in their translation of the manga, or "Jaeger", allegedly used by Crunchyroll and Funimation in their subtitles of the anime. As I am currently in Japan I cannot determine this myself. Also, this particular page's preference for "Jaeger" does not trump WP:COMMONNAME.

FonFon Alseif, that would be useful to see what they are using, but it still should not be the final decision in whether or not Misplaced Pages uses "Yeager" or "Jaeger". The fact that "Meitantei Konan" is known as "Case Closed" in English is not the same, because at no point in its history was it known as "Detective Conan" in English releases. Again, WP:COMMONNAME rules here, and we have to determine which is more prevalent or which should be chosen according to Misplaced Pages guidelines and policies.—Ryulong (琉竜) 16:59, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Crunchyroll and Funimation do both use "Jaeger," I can confirm this as I watch the Crunchyroll version and just watched the Funimation version on Hulu. I just wanted to confirm this so you can no longer make your side look somehow more reasonable by being able to call it "alleged." So we have one official source using "Yeager" but has also used "Jaeger" in an announcement, and two official sources using only "Jaeger." "The official English version takes precedence over anything else..." that's why I've been rooting for "Jaeger," because two official sources use it, but I know you're just gonna throw out the "manga coming first" thing at me, so seriously pay attention: two official sources both use Jaeger, one official source is known to primarily use "Yeager," but has also been seen using "Jaeger." Not only this, but his last name is based on the German word for "Hunter" and "Jäger" and "Jaeger" would be the two versions of the name to fit this. Since both Crunchyroll and Funimation both use "Jaeger" and it is an accepted version in which to write "Jäger," I say it's only logical to use "Jaeger." From my understanding, it is a very small minority of people who use "Yeager." It's like I said before with the whole "Zoro" and "Zolo" thing; "Zoro" is both officially used as well as correct to use despite the fact that the official manga version uses "Zolo." --Zanzors (talk) 17:16, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Okay, so we have the official anime subs going with "Jaeger" and the English manga and Japanese sources going with "Yeager". However, we cannot use any of the knowledge that we know it's derived from the German "Jäger" in our decision because that's WP:OR. And yes, "Yeager" was in official use first. Now WP:COMMONNAME decides which has more precedence.

However, we still have the "Levi"/"Rivaille" issue (the tweet uses "Levi") and the "Zoë Hange"/"Hanji Zoe" issue ("Zoë Hange" is in print with Kodansha).—Ryulong (琉竜) 17:24, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Levi. Just Levi. As in Levi's jeans. The Japanese characters in both Levi's jean and Levi's name are the same. I have no idea who ever came up with Rivaille. It doesn't sound like a name but some misspelling of Ravioli. Even in the anime, everyone calls him Levi. And now about "Zoë Hange"/"Hanji Zoe", now this is just weird. I have no idea where Kodansha USA said her name is Zoë Hange/Zoe Hanji since Hange/Hanji is her given name and her name in Japanese is written in western order: given name and surname, and almost every site that reviews/watches/talks about the series calls her Hange Zoë/Hanji Zoe. Even the anime calls her name that way. This could be a mistake in their part.--FonFon Alseif (talk) 14:30, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

I looked at the Japanese Misplaced Pages article and they have her name written as Hange/Hanji Zoe. I'm guessing this way (putting the "Hange/Hanji" before the "Zoe") to write her name was intentional, regardless of which name (given or family) they refer to her in the anime/manga. So now we should probably move on to figure out the correct spelling.

One other thing, it's probably just me but for some reason the word "Rivaille" reminds me of the way the romaji for "Levi" may supposed to sound like. This probably makes no sense, I just thought I'd throw that out there even though I agree with the name "Levi".KirtZJ 14:49, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Kodansha USA uses "Zoë Hange" instead of "Hanji Zoe". That's all I'm aware of. And upon further thought it really shouldn't be "Rivaille" as that would be "Rivaiyu" in Japanese. However, Kodansha USA's Tumblr seems to use "Hange Zoe" as a tag .—Ryulong (琉竜) 17:12, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Technology

I would like to talk about the recent edition of this article. Anonymous person changed the first line, stating that Humanity didn't devolve the story is based in the 8th century. Meanwhile, people on the Internet seem to disagree - for example: "How they developed the 3-D maneuver gear, railroads or even gunpowder (and guns)"? What is the official statement of show creators about the timeline and AoT universe's technology?

This cannot be adequately determined.—Ryulong (琉竜) 05:44, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Hange's name

Since we have settled how to spell the characters name in this article, it's time for another topic, Hange's name.

Hange's full name is Hange Zoë but for some reason, Kondansha USA rearranged her name as Zoë Hange. This wouldn't a problem if that character was japanese except her name is written in Western order in the japanese manga ((ハンジ・ゾエ Hanji Zoe) Notice the dot in the middle of her which shows that her name is in western order (Given name, Surname) not Japanese (Surname, Given name) like the others eg. Mikasa Ackerman (ミカサ・アッカーマン) ) and in the anime, she gives out her name as Hange Zoë. --FonFon Alseif (talk) 07:36, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Family Name Given Name orders are present in the west although not that often.—Ryulong (琉竜) 08:39, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Except everyone names in Attack on Titan is Given Name Family Name order.--FonFon Alseif (talk) 09:09, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

I think I know what Kodansha USA was thinking here. "Zoë" happens to be a fairly common Given name used in the English speaking world and is a variation of "Zooey". They probably figured "Zoë Hange" would look more attractive when written in the printed manga to English readers rather than "Hange Zoë" because it is fairly unusual to see "Zoë" as a surname on this side of the world. That's really all there is to it. KirtZ 10:05, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

However, this only causes confusion with the manga readers and anime viewers over her name and which is the right way of saying it.--FonFon Alseif (talk) 10:50, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

We could always clarify this with a note? KirtZ 10:55, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Ok, but i prefer we use "Hange Zoë" with a note saying Kondansha USA wrote her name as "Zoë Hange".--FonFon Alseif (talk) 11:40, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

No, we should go with Kodansha and use "Zoe Hange".—Ryulong (琉竜) 12:06, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Agreed. I also think the note may be a good idea here. Someone could edit it in and see how it looks. If it's only for the character article it'll work, especially if we start anchoring the character names and link them to the episode list and chapter lists, meaning that we'll only need one note. KirtZ 13:02, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

So we're just using a Woolseyism translation of a character's name by one official licensor when the other official licensors did it the way it was written? Fine, go ahead. I wouldn't be surprise when the anime dub comes out in 2014, we might change the name again. Here's the note we should put in the characters section for her.

"Hange's name is actually written as "Hange Zoë" in the original manga and anime but was written as "Zoe Hange" in the Kondansha USA manga translation."--FonFon Alseif (talk) 15:08, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Don't go Troper on us just because you want to be loyal to the name order in Japan.—Ryulong (琉竜) 17:13, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Something interesting i found while on the net over here.--FonFon Alseif (talk) 12:23, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Genre

Why is Attack on Titan listed as a Dark Fantasy? It's as much a fantasy as Star Trek or Star Wars is, in that it's only taking acceptable deviations from real world science to make things work. Much of everything in Attack on Titan can be explained scientifically, including the titans and everything about them. The 3D Maneuver Gear is scientific as well.

This should be listed as a work of Science Fiction. 24.34.79.89 (talk) 05:35, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Science fiction is generally limited to present day and speculative futures. "Dark fantasy" fits it better considering its setting does not meet this criteria.—Ryulong (琉竜) 06:37, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

I knew someone would touch on this eventually. Even though the series may have >>minor hints<< of science fiction and other sub genres of such, it is as Ryulong said, and as I have been editing in the past; Dark Fantasy remains the most accurate genre for this series. >> KirtZ 16:35, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

If anything it's just barely bordering on steampunk, but until the truth behind the titans is revealed we won't know shit.—Ryulong (琉竜) 20:06, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Their origin is heavily hinted. We really only need to know how the titan shifters' change into titans to confirm if it is science, because of the need to follow the law of conservation of mass in order to make them work scientifically

24.34.79.89 (talk) 06:56, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

That may be, but this series is already ongoing and what ever genres where established at the start up until now should be used. I dont see the point of putting a Science genre halfway through for one plot detail when the ones already listed far outweigh it. Also, this is a fictional work; making an attempt to establish a real world scientific connection would be wasted effort since that would/may be purely speculation somewhat bordering on WP:Fancruft and we'll probably even have to wait for an official source to list it as a science genre and this rarely ever happens. Misplaced Pages is not the place for speculation-even the >hinted< kind. >> KirtZ 18:43, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

Misspelled Attack On Titan character name

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The surename of the carecter Eren Jeager is misspelled. Jeager is spelled whith a "Y" at the start instead of a "J" . Please correct the the spelling by changing Yeager to Jeager PacificTitan (talk) 15:51, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

You should read #Spelling issues. It's not a mispelling.Tintor2 (talk) 16:37, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

We're not doing it.—Ryulong (琉竜) 17:13, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Not this again. Sigh. Read the archived discussions above. Also, your spelling is ironic for a discussion of this nature. >> KirtZ 20:56, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

While "Jaeger" is more appropriate in terms of the context of his name, regardless of its spelling it is pronounced "Yeager" because it comes from the German/Scandinavian word "Jäger" which translates to "Hunter". The official translation is "Yeager" because the translators realize that most people who are not fluent in German would not understand it being spelled "Jaeger" but pronounced "Yeager". 24.34.79.89 (talk) 07:00, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

So you've never heard of Chuck Yeager then?—Ryulong (琉竜) 08:20, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

I guess not. >> KirtZ 18:45, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

Lead note

A lead note would undoubtedly discourage users from constantly changing the name "Yeager" to "Jaeger." since they obviously disregard the notice at the top of the editing page. So why not? Now that I think about it, I guess that the end of the anime is a legitimate reason though. >> KirtZ 01:31, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

We do not need to have an actual footnote that shows up as people read. We just revert it every time.—Ryulong (琉竜) 07:03, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Why not add a WP:EDITNOTICE to the article (that shows up at the top of the edit screen, assuming they're not using VisualEditor), and a FAQ template at the top of the talk page (since 99% of people don't bother reading through the entire talkpage)? --benlisquare_T•C•E 01:11, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

There is an edit notice saying "We use a certain set of translations" but no one seems to pay attention. I attemped to request that "We use 'Yeager', not 'Jaeger'" to be added but the edit notice does not appear to be on my watchlist.—Ryulong (琉竜) 04:55, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

1. http://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/406375202X
2. http://forums.mangafox.me/threads/429236-Novel-Shingeki-no-Kyojin-Before-the-fall

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