Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Gerda Arendt (talk | contribs) at 06:34, 16 October 2013 (to the memory of the scuttled, the banned and those who have just given up). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

to the memory
of the scuttled,
the banned
and those who have
just given up

Did you know ...

• ... that two conductors shared performances of Verdi's Messa da Requiem in St. Martin, Idstein?
• ... that Johann Sebastian Bach reworked music from more than three decades earlier for the central piece Crucifixus in the symmetrical structure of his Mass in B minor?
• ... that the Baroque orchestra L'arpa festante produced the first recording of a Passion by Telemann and played Bach's Mass in B minor in the Cathedral of Trier?

Welcome!

Hello, Gerda Arendt, and welcome to Misplaced Pages! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Unfortunately, one or more of the pages you created, like Graham Waterhouse, may not conform to some of Misplaced Pages's guidelines for page creation, and may soon be deleted. ... --> Again, welcome! Hell In A Bucket (talk) 13:39, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Archive of 2009 | 2010 | 2011 | 2012 | 2013

Flowers and sapphires

Go Gerda Girl

You do great work and I love it! Don't let Tony get to you. Ihre Arbeit ist grossartig. Weiter schreiben, eien lange Zeit. PS, I really liked the article about the church the communists blew up. BarkingMoon (talk) 11:50, 19 June 2011 (UTC) Sehr geehrte Gerda, I have a watch on your page since a few weeks ago. I approved and moved 167 to holding for June 24.BarkingMoon (talk) 12:11, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Thank you! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:13, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Keine Problem. Koennen Sie ueberpruefen DYK Noel F. Parrish? Danke. BarkingMoon (talk) 12:14, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Later, yes, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:24, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

See my talk page. Thanks so much! BarkingMoon (talk) 11:13, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

On 30 December 2011 the article became a GA, thanks to Ched, PumpkinSky and MathewTownsend, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:40, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Flowers!

	Wonderful comment
	For your wonderful comment, cutting right to the heart of the matter! cmadler (talk) 13:18, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

For a true gem of a person ...

	words of reason and trust
	To quote you: Thank you for speaking up with decency and fairness, treating editors as living people, — Ched :  ?  15:58, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

German-English

You asked for an English translation of "uneinsichtig, unbelehrbar und beratungsresistent". Without consulting a dictionary, I translate those words as "uninsightful, unteachable, and resistant to advice", but there may be a more nuanced or idiomatic meaning that I am missing. The single English word that comes to mind to describe that set of characteristics is "pig-headed" (that is probably not an English word you know, but I think it is a word you will enjoy). I also think of the Misplaced Pages item WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT.

Your English is much better than my Deutsch, so I am happy when I can help you expand your knowledge. I didn't respond on the page where you asked the question because I think it is a bad idea to continue the argument ("bickering") there. Also, I think it is best to avoid making accusations against people, because that often makes people angry, while failing to help them see the problem. (See Misplaced Pages:Avoid personal remarks.) --Orlady (talk) 14:54, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

I certainly enjoyed the new word and your sensible way of handling the case. I just asked words, didn't I? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:00, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

• Yeah, but "pig-headed" has more negative connotations than "hard-headed" or "stubborn". I will not choose a term to apply to this situation, per one of the above cited policies. Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:20, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Learning, thank you! (Just approved your Aku hook), --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:24, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

• Alright, thanks! Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:11, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

"impervious" rings a bell: "impervious to pain, up to a certain point" (The Fountainhead), --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:26, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Orlady, einsicht is indeed insight or understanding, but in this context uneinsichtig is nearer to "unreasonable". I suggest "unreasonable, incorrigible, and impervious to advice". Pig-headed is good. Moonraker (talk) 09:56, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for more insight, on top of your brilliant idiomatic translation of the 1715 text about the (equal) skills of females to study, see above, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:57, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Cherry Impact event barnstar

		The Cherry Impact Event Award
		I hereby award Gerda Arendt this Cherry Impact Event Award for the global impact your incredibly delightful sweetness and extraordinary talent brings to all of us! . – Dreadstar † 07:01:00, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Standing Strong

	When the Ill Winds Blow No Good
	I saw this image and thought of you and all you've done to help PS and Khazar. You are a bastion of refuge when the storm clouds come in, and I for one would like to thank you. Don't worry about people talking behind your back - as they say, "sticks and stones". Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:13, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

uh, a tree for you

	Tree award? These have to be "awards"?
	Hi, Gerda. I was editing Desivojca, and it has this nice tree photo from the "Komani neighborhood", so I figured it should be seen more. Enjoy. Alarbus (talk) 15:55, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

I do, I love trees! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:59, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Special Barnstar
	For believing in the goodness of people above all. For having faith and being willing to work on a cause that seemed hopeless. MathewTownsend (talk) 23:27, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

AMEN to that! Gerda is one of the kindest, most decent people I've ever met. In this case, wiki-met, not met in person, though I'd love to do that one day.PumpkinSky talk 11:37, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, yes, please, all of it! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:41, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

• — Ched :  ?  00:37, 16 April 2012 (UTC) Like

The Mandarax Barnstar of Excellence

		The Mandarax Barnstar of Excellence
		I am pleased to award this MBE to you in recognition of your outstanding work on Misplaced Pages. Your numerous DYKs have achieved the noble goal of highlighting culture on the Main Page. Your work with other users is exemplary, and you're one of the nicest Wikipedians, always supporting and encouraging other users. Thanks for all of your superb contributions! MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 19:14, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Thank you! - I was tempted to say "Blushing", but every time I say so the user is gone a week later, I don't want to miss you also ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:19, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

ps: I would like to share this award with my br'er Rabbit, the incarnation of selfless service to this project ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:15, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Your not saying it seems to have worked – it's been a week and I'm still here! I just finished my latest article (my first in a long time). It's about an artist who was born and raised in Germany and was very interested in music. For some reason, that made me think of you.... MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 22:01, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

I didn't say it, as much as I was tempted! - Thanks for staying with me, and for the article! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:25, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Knock on wood, as I blushed as well recently ;) Muggeseggele is still facing extinction while the Mans parking was guided so well to DYK by our fairy maiden - Glückauf Serten (talk) 10:23, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

You found #1, I blushed three more times, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:25, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

nice edit notice ;)

• http://wikipediocracy.com/
• http://wikipediocracy.com/2012/10/31/tis-the-season-to-be-banning-at-wikipedia/

• Mads Lange

A Halloween present from Wikipediocracy on my eighth anniversary. Best wishes. Mads Lange (talk) 09:28, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

'tis the season

nice comment, peace maker - I pass free treats today, Reformation, even the Bach cantata got a pumpkin + I like sharing, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:32, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

peace GA ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:44, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

"There Was an Old Woman Who Lived in a Shoe"

You mentioned this article on my talk page earlier. The reason I did a bit of work on it was partly because it was pretty poor, but more selfishly I wanted to start an article on the topic of concealed shoes, and I didn't it want it to be immediately tagged as an orphan; I hate those tags. I've emailed Northampton Museum asking if someone from there could take a look at the article, and it would be good if you and/or your talk-page stalkers could have a quick look through as well, to see if there's anything that could do with a bit more explanation. I'm not asking for any kind kind of formal review, just a quick eyeball to see if there's anything obviously missing, or that doesn't make sense.

Cheers! (Yes, I've had a couple of glasses of wine, and perhaps you'll join me. I find it helps the creative juices to flow. ;-) ) George Ponderevo (talk) 19:31, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, will look but not soon, want to get Fauré's Requiem to presentable until the composer appears as TFA on 4 November, translate a Bach cantata to German until Saturday and Der Handschuh asap, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:43, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Would you like me to take a look as well? Malleus Fatuorum 19:56, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Sure, all of them ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:58, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

OK, later. Have to warn you though that I'm not really a Wikipedian, have never been a Wikipedian, and I scare away women, children and new editors. Allegedly. But I'll try and be gentle. Malleus Fatuorum 20:03, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

matching my Category:Wikipedians who are not part of The Community --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:13, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Brains Work Better Barnstar

		The 'Brains Work Better in A Community' Award
		You and I walk on the same side of the street. Thank you for all your efforts to befriend and assist your fellow Wikipedian Editors (WE). Bottom line: WE are all living breathing people that desire love. Your efforts have a cascading effect throughout WP. What's so bad about Peace, Love and Understanding? ```Buster Seven Talk 01:42, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, blushing again. (See above, not afraid that you will leave within a week ;) Thanks to Elen for the colour.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:43, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Happy New Year Gerda

Dear Gerda, I am too busy thinking about all sorts of silly things and forgot to send you a greeting for the New Year, if such things amuse you. At any rate I'm glad to see you are still here and have not been distracted by the Wikifollies (!) I saw The Hobbit (film) on IMAX 3-d the other day and thought it was awesome. Snow is settling on Ipswich tonight so it all looks very pretty by streetlight, if cold underfoot. I hope you have yet another brilliant year in WP and of course (far more important) a brilliant year in the Reality (whatever you construe that to be) which is The Great Outside... If there is such a thing as a Jahresentwicklung I hope that yours will be frohlich. - Season's greetings, (Steven) Eebahgum (talk) 23:49, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, Steven, I appreciate your personal thoughts and wish you no less than the same! - I didn't send "individual" greetings but had Christmas music on my user, - a remnant is still there now like a motto: "ban complaining". It's not the same as "ban mourning", - look above and for sing praises ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 00:07, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Defender of the Integrity of Misplaced Pages

		The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar
		Dear Gerda, it's always a struggle trying to defend the integrity of Misplaced Pages as a real encyclopedia, against the COMMONNAME philistines who keep wanting to dumb it down instead of redirecting to correct article titles. I'm awed by your efforts. Milkunderwood (talk) 22:39, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

Template:Z147

Legend

I like your ] legend.
All the best! –
 – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard| 14:20, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks should go to Wehwalt, who took the photo - thinking of a legend - and coined the phrase on his user, - perhaps I should credit him but thought the pic would tell those whose "inquiring mind wants to know", --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:25, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Ha, ha! Excellent! –
 – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard| 14:38, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

... and this is my real name ... never could understand the reason for a nom de plume ... but then it would be absurd to imagine that it is not my name –
 – Gareth Griffith-Jones |The Welsh Buzzard| 21:34, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Andreas Scholl

I've finished with the lead now Gerda, hope you think it does the subject justice. Ironically, now that the lead's been expanded, I much prefer the uncollapsed infobox (I might even prefer no infobox at all in this case, but that's a separate story). The length of the infobox vs. the length of the lead is a factor that seems to have been largely ignored in all of the recent "discussions". Malleus Fatuorum 04:59, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Thank you! (This is without looking yet, I trust your quality.) - Did you see that I took the picture (not the lead, the other)? Same day as the one of another church where he appeared and you liked. I will not touch the infobox until the "collapse discussion is over", see talk. - There should be more in it, will look into that later, see talk. - A good infobox should draw the interest of someone who just came to find one fact into reading the article. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:17, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

I only looked at the lead Gerda. May I ask you a personal question? Is Gerda Arendt your real name? If you're suspicious about why I'm asking you then just email me and I'll explain, nothing sinister I promise. Malleus Fatuorum 07:33, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

If I was a suspicious person I would not write under my real name ;) - if you have time, go over the rest, - if you look at the history, you will see that it was started by a devotee, ready to mention every note he sang, I dropped a lot of that but a bit more of one style would be great. You won't believe how many people crowded our concert just to hear him. He said he would come again (about the highest praise a church choir can receive) but has no time for the next one, David Erler will sing alto then, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:39, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

The reason I asked was because I'm thinking of adding my real name to my user page. I feel foolish editing under a pseudonym like "Malleus Fatuorum", and if my real name isn't already bagged I may request a change. Either way, I think a little more openness might go a long way. Malleus Fatuorum 07:47, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Good idea! - Good luck! (You will need it, because as far as I know Andy Mabbett tried the same, but was not permitted to change, that's how his signature got so long.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:52, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

I'll see if my real name is available. Back on the subject of Scholls though, I've heard some old recordings of castrati. Can he really reach those high notes with his balls still in place? Malleus Fatuorum 07:58, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

There were soprano castrati and alto. He can singer everything alto, your recordings may be soprano. There are males who can those also. - His wonderful event for the Rheingau Musik Festival - 3 concerts in 3 churches in one day will be repeated this year (different programs and one church different)! - That festival could also use a better lead ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:10, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

ps:for name changes, ask 28bytes, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:12, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

What do you think about the castrato article? Malleus Fatuorum 08:27, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

no time, need to talk to ArbCom and go to church ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:31, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Your friend

I'm sorry to hear of your loss. I hope you can find comfort in happy memories. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 09:01, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. - The funeral was yesterday, dear friends flew in from the US and are with us, - most important. There's always time for data, but not people, thanks for understanding that! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:11, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

ps: he participated in writing this, but died gently from a stroke. If I wrote an article (but I know to little about his scientific accomplishments) it would be the forth for a friend who died, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:17, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

Sorry to hear about this Gerda, who was it?♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 12:07, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

Thank you!

Thank you so much for the message of human support on my talk page and the beautiful precious stone you gave me there. A person's Infobox is a very common feature in most WP pages I know. It is almost a basic feature of historic person's pages on WP. I don't understant the opposition to it on the Handel page. It should be trivial IMO. In any case, thanks again. It is nice to start to follow the work of another awesome Wikpedian more closely. Keep up the great work you do here! warshy 18:03, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Editor's Barnstar
	Thought you deserve at least this much for all the help and support you gave me, right from my very first moment, oh and by the way I'm Back in action!!! Thanks once again for all Everything! The Wikimon (talk) 13:25, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, feels good! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:57, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

You don't seem too pleased to see me back... Anyways, Misplaced Pages servers must be working over time. I'm am unable to keep a page open for even a minute before reloading it. Nothing is opening quickly, links are slow and its pissing me off. Are you suffering from the same problem??? Its a real fist clenching anger!!! The Wikimon (talk) 14:16, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Sorry to disappoint you. Look at my talk: I rarely use an exclamation mark, you got one! Read further, I miss friends, dead or gone, I have arguments with people I respect ... - No, loading is normal, normally slow, that is. - I get ready for Good Friday, and hope for Easter (we celebrate Monday also), --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:34, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Writer's Barnstar
	This is for your continuing work on the Bach Cantatas, in particular Jesus nahm zu sich die Zwölfe, BWV 22 which I just chose as this month's Christian art in the Icthus Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 01:25, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

I feel honoured, and encouraged to tackle the St Matthew Passion and the Mass in B minor as long term goals, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:43, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Easter music

Great choices! :) We did the Palestrina Sicut cervus too, and K. 194, and... a bunch of Anglican stuff that I don't remember :P ~ Riana ⁂ 06:01, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

I am so grateful to my conductors! We (my first infobox!) will sing the Sparrow Mass in less than two hours in rehearsal (the only one with the orchestra), one hour later in the service. The others were last night, + smaller works. Happy Easter, to everyone reading this! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:21, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

"Kommt, eilet und laufet". Frohe Ostern, Gerda. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:47, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

thanks for coming! (to another article with an infobox) - to you, too!

ANI Notice

Hello. There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Jusdafax 05:19, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Your first, my first, responded ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:07, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

When articles for individual performers, individual works, and even individual albums, can all have an infobox, I am still quite amazed that the article for a composer (and musician) as monumental as J. S. Bach should not be deemed worthy of an infobox. Is the argument that they "all look just the same"? Or is it just that he's so imporatnt that he transcends such mundane trivia? Regards, Martinevans123 (talk) 12:28, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

It's not Bach, it's an almost religious belief that "boxing" people is trivialising them, since 2005, look. I am sad that several good editors lost patience, last GFHandel, you know who before, - but my first barnstar was for resilience ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:38, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

infoboxes for classical music composers

Καλό Πάσχα, Gerda!
I do think articles for composers and their works should have infoboxes. That said, I am saddened by what is going on here. Listening to Glenn Gould's 1981 recording of the Goldberg Variations right now, and wishing the whole mess hadn't happened. Ma è la via del mondo. Pete aka --Shirt58 (talk) 09:06, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

I was told it went on since 2005, - at least it was told well: Did you know that L'infobox infernale (The Hellish Infobox), an opera semiseria in 25 acts, is the longest running opera ever staged on Misplaced Pages? - A look at the proposed {{Infobox opera}}, especially its sample, is a good way to cheer up! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:10, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

The infobox saga seems more like a soap opera some days! LOL!  ;-) Montanabw 16:44, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you

If everyone followed your example this would be a much finer community, and we wouldn't have the problem with editor retention we do. But anyway -- just wanted to say thanks. Please continue! Antandrus (talk) 14:20, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, blushing again ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:48, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks

Hi Gerda. Thanks for the kind thoughts. Over the past few days, I've been finding out that, like many things, editing Misplaced Pages requires constant practice. We (ok, mostly you) created a lot of composer articles for the Munich Biennale, and now I have to work hard to remember everything that needs done. Let's see how I get on with creating Nikolay Strelnikov ... Scarabocchio (talk) 22:04, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Excellent! Content, content, content - don't like ANI, - der Himmel lacht --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:32, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Discussion at Template:Bullying

You are invited to join the discussion at Template talk:Bullying#This reversion. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 21:26, 16 April 2013 (UTC)Template:Z48

Sorry, not my music, it's BWV 103 right now, for an absent friend, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:33, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Oh that's all right. I really hate to see good editors (such as myself, having done 10 good articles and over 10 featured articles) leave the project. My music is And did those feet in ancient times, also for Dreadstar. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 22:01, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

See impact, if you can (and I thought I could archive it) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:38, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

speaking of impact, see also: balls or "Pumpkin in the sky with diamonds", 18 April 2012, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:07, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. You're such a sweetheart. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 06:12, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

By the way, is it possible to work on the Frederic Chopin article or the Benjamin Britten article? And before I go, do note that I have an exceptionally low tolerance for uncalled for disrespect over trivial matters or being involved in any dispute. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 06:04, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

I have the beloved composers on my watchlist, guess I need a translation for your tolerance issue ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:23, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

I don't know, having been involved with the project over 6 years, over 50,000 edits and have had at least a few successful GANs (without all of the Wiki-drama) and at least 6 successful FA nominations but guess what: it seems that Dreadstar is back! Meanwhile, I am working on Benjamin Britten in my sandbox. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 02:49, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

I am happy that Dreadstar cut his "vacation" short ;) - I still don't know what you mean by "exceptionally low tolerance for uncalled for disrespect over trivial matters or being involved in any dispute", regarding me. I am in several disputes, see Classical music or Bach ;) - A piece by Britten is on the to do list on my user, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:40, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Sometimes no is the best answer.

I saw your question to user:The Interior. I am happy to tell you that no is the answer. I had noticed this edit in relative real time and was very quick to respond. I started to email you and ask that you post a message; actually writing the email. But I didn't send it because I didn't want to orchestrate sincerity. I am so very glad to see that you arrived on your own, and even more delighted to see that you had already made a day precious in this user's name; for clearly they are. Just as you are still awesome. My76Strat (talk) 08:51, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

good news, yes! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:14, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks

	Love the shirt!
	Just got the shirt through the Merchandise Giveaway Programme. Thanks for your vote of confidence!  — Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:39, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Becoming! (Much better than "Mourning becomes ...") --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:49, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

First ever Wiki Angel Award

		The Wiki Angel Award
		Gerda, es macht mich glücklich, dir den ersten Wiki Angel Award geben. Du bist ein true Wiki Angel und feine Dame.PumpkinSky talk 18:13, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

• This is awesome ... wish I would have thought of it. :) — Ched :  ?  18:26, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you!!! (blushing again, see above) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:32, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Words are not enough

	Angel of sweet kindness
	Your support while I was having a rough time and then your warm welcome back upon my return are indescribably heartwarming and most welcome...thank you! Dreadstar ☥ 15:51, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

I hope you realise that I was selfish: I wanted you to stay! I see too many who give up or find better things to do. Feel free to join my red cat, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:21, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Sir Adrian

Gerda, what a pleasing note from you on my talk page! You are too kind, but I walk a little taller for that beautifully-phrased compliment. Tim riley (talk) 19:03, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Barnstar

		The Huge Heart Barnstar.
		For all the kindness that you show to your fellow editors, User:Keilana has said that you, Gerda, deserve this award.

Thank you so much, also for taking care of all those women scientists! How many hits did your "organ"-related DYK get? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:49, 1 May 2013 (UTC) ps: checked myself, 15,299, congrats! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:51, 1 May 2013 (UTC) Thoroughly deserved!!♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 12:24, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

You are a Golden Editor!

	Good as gold!
	For all the times you have brightened someone's day by declaring them 'Precious', you are a Golden Editor. AutomaticStrikeout (T • C • Sign AAPT) 02:57, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, precious! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:57, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Opera days

Dear Gerda, If you haven't used it yet you might get a reference to May Night by R. Korsakov in about now!! Not that we are having any May nights, they feel more like February mornings. I have a fine old recording of this opera with Sergei Lemeshev, great stylist that he was. About 1950. Nothing like a drowned fairy or two to cheer up an opera. Eebahgum (talk) 20:57, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Good idea ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:00, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Done! - Feel free to help me, finding them and inserting yourself, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:47, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

I fear I am too lazy to engage with that aspect of wikipedia. Eebahgum (talk) 22:20, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

For me, that's the sweet part of the day, no conflict, no fear, free choice ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:50, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Sorrow

I noticed your appreciation of Sorrow. The article was written as part of this collaboration: Misplaced Pages:GLAM/NAGW. We're also using QRpedia, so translation of articles into German (or other languages) would be most welcome! Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 09:21, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

I have it in the back of my mind, same for Archaeology of Kosovo, - once I need less time for straightening out the Bach composition infoboxes and once I got my promised article closer to where I want it to be, I will think of it again ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:29, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Infobox with collapsible sections

		The Content Creativity Barnstar
		Thank you for being such a strong content editor -. Don't let the infobox wars and bad faith editors get to you. Your the type of editor we need more of here -  :-) Moxy (talk) 03:16, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, don't be afraid, I created my red cat after learning to despise "consensus", so am here to stay, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:10, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Precious gift

Thank you so much for your very sweet gift! I'm very pleased and honored to be a recipient, and truly delighted to discover that there are people like yourself who do such things. Misplaced Pages is suddenly a much, much nicer community :) SteveStrummer (talk) 19:43, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

As you can see in the list, I had great models. On my user I keep my own, remembering the feeling, - your nice response made my day today ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:41, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

There is a mop reserved in your name

You are a remarkably exemplar editor. You would be a good administrator in my opinion, and you are qualified! You personify an Administrator without tools, and have gained my support; already!

My76Strat (talk) 22:38, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for the expression of trust! You are not the first to suggest that, the answer still applies. Also you must have missed how disruptive I am ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:53, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Fair enough. I am livid at the tone of that Wagner discussion; clearly I should avoid injecting my thoughts there; if I am able. My76Strat (talk) 23:18, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

MIA

I had no idea such a page even existed! And strange that it said vanished without notice, I had a big banner saying I was moving, had no internet, and then had little to sporadic internet, etc. Anyway, I'm happily off that list. :) Sadly, I see many names that make me wish were not on the list. :( Oh good grief, someone point me to how to make smiley faces, lol. Ariel♥Gold 03:00, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

You are most welcome here! - In the sad list, others missed you. - I hear you are kind of an angel! But that it was said to me also puts it in perspective ;) - We sing "Come Holy Ghost" today, see my user, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:21, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Mass in B minor structure

On 23 May 2013, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Mass in B minor structure, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that Johann Sebastian Bach reworked music from more than three decades earlier for the central piece Crucifixus in the symmetrical structure of his Mass in B minor? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Mass in B minor structure. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:42, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Nice Surprise

I am honored! Thank you for your kind words, and for making Misplaced Pages a better place. Ewulp (talk) 04:01, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Now I am honored! Some may think I make it worse, trying to apply infoboxes, an accessibility tool. Some think a box disfigures an article. What will they think about a ramp for people in wheelchairs for a building? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:45, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

The lede and the TOC are ramps; an infobox is unfortunately very often a detour, a treacherous ramp that leads to the wrong information. Users who have difficulty reading a lede paragraph or utilizing a table of contents are better served by Simple English Misplaced Pages than by a table of field-value pairs. Surely you will agree! I encourage you to join the battle against the infobox blight. Ewulp (talk) 08:12, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Battle? Sounds frightening ;) - I go for Reformation, see link to "amore e studio elucidandae" on my user, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:01, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

Thanks for the gemstone!

Bearian (talk) 16:28, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks from me too! Ruhrfisch _><>° 03:55, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Thank you...

...for your kind words.

And you did notice that I occasionally(?) challenge the status quo. Yeah, I'm not a follower. HiLo48 (talk) 09:54, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Nor am I - only supposed to be one (found in the WP:Great Dismal Swamp in the last few hours: "some of those in his train play these silly games", "that the spirit of the master temporarily in exile has found a worthy inheritor") ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:13, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Main Page appearance: Franz Kafka

This is a note to let the main editors of Franz Kafka know that the article will be appearing as today's featured article on July 3, 2013. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. If you prefer that the article appear as TFA on a different date, or not at all, please ask featured article director Raul654 (talk · contribs) or one of his delegates (Dabomb87 (talk · contribs), Gimmetoo (talk · contribs), and Bencherlite (talk · contribs)), or start a discussion at Misplaced Pages talk:Today's featured article/requests. You can view the TFA blurb at Misplaced Pages:Today's featured article/July 3, 2013. If it needs tweaking, or if it needs rewording to match improvements to the article between now and its main page appearance, please edit it, following the instructions at Misplaced Pages:Today's featured article/requests/instructions. The blurb as it stands now is below:

Franz Kafka (1883–1924) was a German-language writer of novels and short stories, and is regarded as one of the most influential authors of the 20th century. His works, such as "Die Verwandlung" ("The Metamorphosis"), Der Process (The Trial), and Das Schloss (The Castle), are filled with themes and archetypes of alienation, brutality, parent–child conflict, and mystical transformations. Kafka was born into a middle-class Jewish family in Prague, then part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. He trained as a lawyer and worked for an insurance company, writing in his spare time – he complained all his life about his lack of time to write. Kafka wrote hundreds of letters to family and close female friends, including his fiancée Felice Bauer. Only a few of Kafka's stories appeared during his lifetime in story collections and literary magazines. His novels and other unfinished works were published posthumously, mostly by his friend Max Brod, who ignored his wish to have the manuscripts destroyed. Albert Camus and Jean-Paul Sartre are among the writers influenced by Kafka's work; the term Kafkaesque has entered the English language to describe surreal situations like those in his writing. (Full article...)

UcuchaBot (talk) 23:01, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Some baklava for you!

I'm not by there very often, but today I saw the recent kerfluffle at AN/I and thought you could use some sweets. Lest you think this is all selfless, though, I brought a second fork. Care to split it? -- Khazar2 (talk) 02:33, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, sweet of you, - I would share with Andy first if his doctors allow. Day by day I hope the thread autoarchives (havn't looked today), - I am sure his doctors allow no stress ;) . Did you see the list of 18 discussions "drowning" a project? - Everybody who takes an unbiased look is welcome to share the baklava! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:58, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Kindness

Bless you for that ;) -- Cassianto 09:59, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

I like to watch that archive grow, full of people who otherwise seem to live on different stars ;) - feel free to also share some baklava above --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:20, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

Alas, there are only two forks (I'll use my fingers!) -- Cassianto 17:54, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

I always use my fingers for baklava, you can have mine, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:18, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

The "If I had the time I'd make a Wikilove thingy with a pretty picture, but I'm lazy so instead you'll have to settle for text" Barnstar

Hi Gerda,

I saw your note on my talk page. Thanks for the kind words, and for being so refreshingly pleasant and un-bitter all the time. An inspiration to us all. I'm sure I'll see you around eventually, but probably won't be for a while yet. Enjoying my time away. Cheers. --Floquenbeam (talk) 20:56, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

I enjoy refreshing apparitions, also I am in a good mood, after singing Bach for more than two hours, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:08, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Some advice

Hi Gerda, a word of advice. I think trying to start a new discussion every day at the main OP discussion page for a new article's infobox probably isn't a good idea. It's going to make the OP page huge, especially if you paste the whole box in for every single article. In 7 days the page is going to contain 7 infoboxes and take longer and longer to load, with a huge amount of white space. Perhaps more importantly, you are probably not going to get considered or constructive responses that way, and you run the risk of alienating some members by swamping the page like that. There's a lot of infobox fatigue at the moment. I am personally taking a complete vacation from the issue. I would suggest that if you want to add one a day but want to discuss it first, then host the infobox you are proposing in your user space, start a discussion on the actual talk page of the article and link to the box in your user space. Then leave a short note at the OP as a "heads up" to editors. If any of them want to comment, they'll go to the talk page of the article. If no one comments on the talk page after a while, go ahead and add the box. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 14:41, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

I don't plan to start a new discussion every day, but discuss one to a satisfactory end. Joseph was disappointing. There will be no other infobox on OP until that one is discussed and archived, and I am not even adding another one to an opera article. Did you see that I took one to user space? - So thank you for the advice, but I think I took it already. (I still fail to understand how 4 vs 2 votes within one day can be called a "clear consensus". I don't feel fatigue at all, I feel great eagerness and a rush to delete. Even if you are on "vacation" for the topic, can you explain to some what replacing the bottom navbox by the side navbox means? I don't have polite words for that, - restored it anyway.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:53, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Ah, I thought when you said "first try one infobox a day", you meant start a new discussion every day about a new article's infobox. I guess you meant discuss one article and its box and then when that discussion is over, archive it and start the next one? That might work. But I still think it would be much better and more transparent for those kinds of discussions to take place on the article's talk page, with just a note on the OP page. First of all, the project as a collective isn't/can't be the one to definitively decide individual article issues like that (at least two edtitors strongly opposed at Joseph aren't OP members, for one thing). Secondly, if it's on the article's talk page, there's a much clearer permanent record of the discussion easily available to all people who edit or read the article in the future.

I can understand your disappointment re the way things are going at Joseph, but I'm afraid that's going to happen a lot. Many editors, especially in the arts, feel very strongly about the issue and they're all motivated by what they think is best for the article and the reader. As for explaining to people about footer navboxes... they understand what they are and are aware that there's duplication or overlap in some cases, but in their opinion it doesn't matter or they prefer to have the vertical navbox. By the way I think I may have found Act 1 of L'infobox infernale (tragedia lirica in 25 acts), Misplaced Pages's longest running opera. Quite an impressive display it is too, with several palpitating scenes and multiple renditions of "Nessuno è padrone delle voci!" sung by opposing regiments of guerrieri delle modifiche. :) Voceditenore (talk) 16:08, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

I said "first try one infobox a day" in the morning, - you know what happened in the afternoon, and I didn't update ;) - Evening plan: when one discussion is over (and perhaps changes made to the template), start a different genre/type, - we will see. I suggest we let Louise be discussed on the OP talk in the open, from then on follow the procedure you described. Thank you for history, see below for shouting male chorus in battle, - I confess some pleasure making that known. I will not speak about editors who arrive at a scene fast, such as BWV 30, - look for baklava above, feel free to share fingerfood. You are precious, even when tired. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:41, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

An Opera House for you!

Thank you! Did you know that I love opera? See above for the longest running one in 25 acts ;) - Your hook was great, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:12, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

As far as I'm concerned (now), you can have an infobox where you are the main editor, assuming no consensus against it, etc. But: it might not be exactly as you want it, and I'd like not to have one without discussion first where I am a main author. Can we work with that? Nikkimaria (talk) 02:21, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

We can work this out, in fact I think I behaved that way already. I didn't dream of adding one to "your" Bach cantatas (see above under Opera house, I hate fighting), and I was tempted SO much to add one to the Company of Heaven but resisted, because you started it ;) - Can we add please to "articles where I am the main editor" those done in collaboration where I am the "infobox person" for a group (Dr. Blofeld, Riana ...)? For BWV 30, I think it's tricky to decide authorship, we leave it "your way" and talk again next year? St. John's Day is over, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:37, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Sure. Another question, while I'm here: you said you see infoboxes as an accessibility tool. Can you explain what that means to you? Nikkimaria (talk) 13:01, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Keep watching my new place for thoughts, comments on the talk please, - I am just returning and have a few other threads first, and a watch list of 10k+, no rush, right? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:56, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

• (talk page stalker) Support — Ched :  ?  10:01, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

An Opera composer for you!

	An Opera composer for you!
	For outstanding assitance with numerous questions, translation, and outstanding all-around wikicitizenship, I hereby award you this Opera composer award! 78.26 (I'm no IP, talk to me!) 21:29, 26 June 2013 (UTC) The first musician yet in my collection, thank you, my pleasure, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:37, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Franz Kafka works

On 3 July 2013, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Franz Kafka works, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that translators of Franz Kafka's works must cope with ambiguous words like Verkehr, which refers both to traffic and sexual intercourse? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Franz Kafka works. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 08:03, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Precious

	My precious
	Congratulations on the Franz Kafka TFA!! ♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 09:41, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Thank you! Beautiful! Do you also give one to PumpkinSky? He also reached 100 DYK today with a triple, - you of all people would be the one to give him that award (I did 25) ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:49, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Franz Kafka all time top TFA!!!

768,586 hits

Misplaced Pages:Today's featured article/Most viewed

WP:TOP25

YEE HAW, CONGRATS GERDA PumpkinSky talk 01:56, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Wow! That is amazing!User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 02:40, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Gerda, Guten Morgen, input here please PumpkinSky talk 02:48, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Der Morgen ist gut! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:21, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

ps: Franz Kafka works made the DYKstats, my first --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:34, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

DOUBLE CONGRATS! PumpkinSky talk 10:56, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Wow that's impressive! I wonder why it had more hits than any though!!♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 11:01, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

didn't you use google yesterday? link to press on top of my user ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:02, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

I use Firefox which has a search bar in the top right corner and have google books built into my wiki itinery and other websites like youtube and ebay I regularly are in the url bar section so no, I rarely see the home search page of google.♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 11:12, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Unlike this Main page, the "doodle" appears on the top left of every (!) search, - read that article, it has a good image, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:14, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Congratulations to you both for this impressive result. I still say that this is one of the best FA's on the encyclopaedia. -- Cassianto 11:17, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

thank you, that means a lot from you, writer of excellent ones, - plus you saying this about one with an infobox ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:22, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

I know! I had to go and have a lie down after saying that ;) Not even an infobox could ruin this one for me. -- Cassianto 00:34, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Thank you Casasianto. We really appreciate that. I also think Yogo sapphire is quite good. PumpkinSky talk 11:28, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

It is. This article brings back fond memories for me. -- Cassianto 00:34, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

"Logic may indeed be unshakeable, but it cannot withstand a woman who is determined to live. Where was the judge she had never seen? Where was the High Court she had never reached? She raised her hands and spread out all her fingers. But the hands of one of the men closed round her throat, just as the other drove the knife deep into her heart and turned it twice." Only kidding... congrats "Gerda K". Martinevans123 (talk) 11:36, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

"determined", yes (remember my red cat?) ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:41, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

• Like Hugs! Montanabw 17:44, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
• What, almost a million hits... How does that feel, Gerda? Drmies (talk) 03:00, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

• Wow...*salute* Double sharp (talk) 15:27, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Barnstar for you

		The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
		for being such a great encourager! Bermicourt (talk) 17:07, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, very kind, feels good, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:52, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Infobox case request post

Hi Gerda... Thanks for the thanks on the ArbCom case page, but what was it for? Did you just like my contribution, or ...? Sorry, but I'm confused. EdChem (talk) 10:46, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I liked your contribution, because I could not have written it better, both in wording and in my position, - well, I could make a list of the attributions I received in a few talks but don't want to look backwards, it's a waste of time ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:25, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Ok, thanks - it's always nice to hear that a contribution is appreciated.  :) EdChem (talk) 12:33, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

For more bemusement, you could (better not in the case) analyse the edit summaries of Wagner. Quite astonishing, that whole completely unnecessary discussion about an infobox meant to stay on the talk page, isn't it? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:22, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Most of the thread was pointless, I wonder if I'd just find the edit summaries more depressing. EdChem (talk) 13:31, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

DYK count

Don't worry about it, it isn't important. Read my notice at User:Dr. Blofeld/DYK. Whoever is worth anything on here knows what I put into articles. Above all I've always wanted to put out the message that content is more important than anything. I'll continue to update my personal list, and I thankyou for helping me update it at one stage, but I'll just list the articles not the hooks.♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 07:30, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

"You" are a sourced key fact of Misplaced Pages, why not show it? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:07, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Friedrich Meyer-Oertel.Tibetan Prayer 17:42, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

I like "prayer" in your name, you grant almost before asked. If you look at Carl Moritz (architect), started by some Dr. you may know, there are some stubs the same created, theatres and a publication. I humbly ask for moar ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:47, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Staatstheater Mainz. Tibetan Prayer 21:52, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Thank you!

Thank you for the kind comments! You do great work as well! Adam Cuerden 08:51, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, also for being gentle on the ladies' toes ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:55, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Well gee...

Never thought I'd be 'missed'. I didn't leave, per say, I just stopped making edits and removed most non-articles from my watch list. Just got sick of all the really stupid things that went on everywhere, (which I granted contributed too, especially my previous last edit), especially certain editors who seem to get away with ruining perfectly good articles because they have an adminbit or just happen to edit a lot, and decided not to bother any more...even to revert obvious vandalism. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 22:52, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Good to here your voice! You are missed ;) - You could join my red cat (see bottom of my user), to make more music together, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:00, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Hello my dearest German colleague

Gerda will you please review my post here:http://de.wikipedia.org/Benutzer_Diskussion:John_Cline and tell me if It makes any sense, and perhaps provide an answer. Here or there is fine but I am curious if Google translator came through for me or not. Thank you.  :) John Cline (talk) 23:33, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Replied there, it's pictured here on my user, look for "this damned mess must stop", --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:18, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Contentious

Hey Gerda, you've said in a few different places that some edits are not "contentious". I'm wondering whether there is perhaps a difference in how we understand that word. Can you explain how you would define "contentious" (in general, not with reference to any particular case)? Nikkimaria (talk) 02:49, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

As I understood it - I may be wrong - it means that people have very different opinions about a contentious thing. I thought (back to example, easier for me), that everybody would agree that an infobox on an opera is simply and almost objectively better than a duplicated navbox in the "wrong" position leading away from the article in question. I was wrong. I thought that there was nothing debatable about an infobox on a church, - single fields yes, but not the whole thing. Wrong. - If there is a better word for what I described, please tell me, I only used this one because others used it, and I am not sure now if I interpreted it right. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:43, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Okay, so there is a language thing, just not the one I thought there was - "contentious" is the right word, but is used with the wrong verb. You say, for example "Infoboxes in operas are not contentious", but we can see from multiple cases that some people do have very different opinions about their use, right? So what I think you mean is that they should not be contentious, or that you don't understand why they would be contentious, not that they aren't. Does that make sense? Nikkimaria (talk) 14:47, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Yes, thanks, I understand better, I should have said "I didn't expect them to be contentious" or "I see no reason for them to be contentious". Waiting for input on the workshop talk, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:15, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

I am routinely amazed that Gerda's English is often clearer and more understandable than a lot of the native speakers around here! Her search for precision and full understanding is also to be admired! Montanabw 17:27, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

And I'm routinely amazed by Gerda's gewissenhaftigkeit! (um, is that right, Gerda?) Martinevans123 (talk) 18:26, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, both! I like that, it's a nice pun also, "Gewissenhaftigkeit" is diligence first of all, "Gewissen" is "conscience", "gewiss" is "sure", and how I sure have a good conscience as the ally of the banned and - as some think - best to be banned is my secret and strength ;) Reach consensus! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:20, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

German question

Hi Gerda, someone has been spamming this message all over the place. Does it make any sense or is it just general nonsense/trolling? Mark Arsten (talk) 19:45, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

As far as I can understand his German it is that apparently the German Misplaced Pages has got it wrong somehow. So even if it is not total rubbish it is an S.E.P. and can be safely deleted from the talkpages in question. If the trouble continues I recommend contacting @DerHexer: as he might be aware of a previous trackrecord at that IP range at deWiki. Agathoclea (talk) 20:28, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for the info. Asking DerHexer sounds like a good idea. Mark Arsten (talk) 20:41, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

It says that Apollo 11 can't have happened due to calculations. No source, OR, I would say, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:19, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Certainly a longterm issue which is not limited to de & en accourding to this Agathoclea (talk) 21:56, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

But not as old as the Infobox wars (2005, according to reliable sources) ;) - Did you see "The Ban on Love? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:07, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

A ban on love seems a likely outcome of the Arbcom case... but if this guy has been going on about Apollo 11 since 2008 it looks like I might have to semi protect for longer. Thanks everyone! Mark Arsten (talk) 23:09, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Ban on love or Götterdämmerung, Wagner has good titles for such things. You know how to tell that the end of civilization is near? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:44, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

"It's a box, Jim, but not as we know it". Martinevans123 (talk) 11:09, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

Or as a great artist commented the end of Götterdämmerung: "Weialeialaleialalei. (sung) You're exactly where you started, 20 hours ago!" (or 25 acts, or 8 years). "I'm not making this up, you know!" (This phrase also became the title of her autobiography, published in 1985.) - An infobox is as redundant as a book cover. Paraphrasing "Siegfried, tired of love on the rocks with Brunhilda ..." - I am a bit tired of saying such simple things again and again ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:19, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

lol, yes, know what you mean.... ..love on the rocks with Brunhilda - that's "precious"! Martinevans123 (talk) 11:26, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

It's also part of that delightful half hour, a must! Another "Mr. and Mrs. Wotan have an argument." --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:29, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

"One bold edit for a Wikipedian, one great improvement for Misplaced Pages-kind". Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:15, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

Thank you from Thryduulf

It is always nice to be appreciated, and being called "awesome" is a good thing to wake up to :) Thryduulf (talk) 07:54, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

I remember the feeling, August 2010 ;) - I recently saw several of your comments and thoughts that I liked! Do you have words for this? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:01, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

I do, but in the interests of civility I shall not be sharing most of them. "Unhelpful" and "obstructionist" are two that are printable, but I'll not be sharing them there at the moment as I do not wish to get involved in any debates about infoboxes until at least the arbitration case concludes. You may wish to ask for an explanation of those points though so that you can rebut them factually. Thryduulf (talk) 08:10, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for a new term: "obstructionist"! I collect words, did you know? Not a native speaker of English, I have some above, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:36, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Team

Gerda, you have accused me of tag-teaming which I regard as a serious and unwarranted attack on my integrity as an editor. I had thought that you understood my principles better than this; do not confuse my behaviour with that of others who disagree with me. I express my own opinions; if others agree with me that is of course gratifying, but I have not , in any way, incited them to support me. Indeed my messages to WP Classical music and WP Composers were strictly neutral and informative. I have never involved myself in tag-teaming, and as it happens I have never previously had any contact with User:Alfietucker or (as far as I know) with the anonymous editor (whoever he or she is). I should be grateful for an apology.--Smerus (talk) 13:18, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

I haven't accused you. I said it "looks like" a team (not even mentioning "tag"). You will notice the difference. I apologize for not making this clear enough. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:32, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Gerda, to say that 'it looks like' implies in English that you think 'it is'. I would appreciate it if you would clearly post on the page where you made this accusation that you accept that ths was not the case.--Smerus (talk) 14:12, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

I did not make an accusation but will clarify, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:15, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Smerus, haven't you read "don't template the regulars?" This is an example of your attempts at intimidation and failure of AGF toward Gerda. I am going to mention this at Arbcom in a moment. .. done. Montanabw 22:53, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, Smerus, I slept. I didn't report to Arbcom a single diff against (!) anybody, intentionally so. Looking at the PD, that was a mistake, and if there will be victim I will feel guilty. - Thank you for your support of my infobox for the Eighth. Should we call it a different name, for example "summary concept", to make it palatable, as a tool, not a weapon? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:43, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, Gerda! @Montanabw - terribly sorry, my old friend, I was only copying what Andy Mabbett did to me - (see my talk page) - I had been told by others that he was experienced in this sort of thing, but I guess I have learned better!--Smerus (talk) 06:45, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Well Smerus, two things, one is that he apparently did use a template and it was about a WP:Legal concern, so of a different nature than your simply expressing a difference of opinion. Second, if we argue (which I don't, but for the sake of this discussion) that Andy was in error, since when do two wrongs make a right? Your response to the two things posted on your page (your single word answer, "bollocks") says much for your attitude, which I think would benefit from an adjustment in the direction of a more collaborative outlook with more assumption of good faith and fewer personal attacks. JMO... Montanabw 17:44, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Dearest Montana, do grow up. And take a look at wht the arbs had to say about the ludicrous 'legal' complaint made against me by Rexss when he followed his leader. And if you want to whinge about me, do it on my page, not on Gerda's. If Gerda wants to report me for intimidation or anything else, she doesn't need your protection or advice.--Smerus (talk) 18:36, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

"Grow up"? From the person who responded to an Arbcom notice with "bollocks"? Really. Look in the mirror, my dear friend. Sheesh. But if you are forming a truce with Gerda, then more power to you and I will be glad if that happens. Montanabw 23:57, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Dear Gerda, I think your suggestion for Sib 8th was a nice one. But it's neither an infobox nor a 'tool' in my opinion, rather simply a good way of using a photo at the head of an article with some interesting text. I see that Brian would prefer without - so be it. For myslef (who also loves the 1939 image), I could envisage a series of such relatively simple pix at the head of each symphony, each with a pic of the composer at that era and with a shortish text giving some of the background. I will try to think of a series of articles where this might be appropriate and not stir up any aggro. Best, --Smerus (talk) 18:36, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Smerus, you just made my day, did you know? - As for "reporting", I am determined not to, see above. But it troubles me that the Rite of Arb seems to require a victim. - I have a true story for you: Friends came with their seven-year-old daughter, sorry that this girl didn't eat vegetables. She got corn-on-the-cob and liked it, - nobody had labelled it "vegetable". - Btw: Andy has an article on the Main page, see above, the first British victim of World War I, shot before the UK entered the war. I didn't know. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:49, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

OK,as Brian seems to have accepted the pic for Sibelius 8, take a look at Symphony No. 1 (Sibelius) where I have added a similarly 'informative' pic - mind you, the article is terrible and needs revamping.--Smerus (talk) 13:54, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

And now Symphs 2 and 5 as well. The Symph 2 article is also useless and needs a revamp. Symph 5 rather better, but also needs work.--Smerus (talk) 11:55, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Also see Robert le diable, with an experimental 'opera-specific' picture in the template and a pic of the compser at around thetimehe wrote it.--Smerus (talk) 14:57, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Also see my message below (tree), - I am debating with myself if I can reasonably support this projects any longer, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:03, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Thank-you!

Gerda, thank-you for beautiful gemstone "awesome Wikipedian" award! I like how you go around spreading happiness to other Wikipedians. —Prhartcom (talk) 20:56, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Precious

Thank you, Gerda, for the "Precious" you have put on my user talk page. As you know I am all more than 50 years a Bruckner-fan.--Réginald alias Meneerke bloem (To reply) 09:17, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

A tree for you!

Pine-Trees and the Sky: Evening

Then from the sad west turning wearily,

Being glad of you, O pine-trees and the sky!

Rupert Brooke

Thank you, makes this a holiday! I cherish the tree further up - safe from archiving - and I loved the music on the hill of my page. Are you ready for a game? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:01, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Had a quick butchers.. I kinda like the infoboxes, reminds me of the school playground. -- Hillbillyholiday 15:31, 21 August 2013 (UTC) A forest!

I wish it was playground. It's about banning an excellent content editor for the reason that some find him "intimidating", - if you ask me: just because he has the better arguments, very intimidating indeed. I thought arbitration had to do with trying to find a solution between parties in battle, I really did. More experienced users corrected my innocent belief. "And there was peace in them", - not in me now. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:05, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks!

I wished to thank you for your kind sapphire and words! It's certainly nice to be appreciated, and it's an honour to receive it from such a nice editor like yourself. Feel free to page me if you need any favours. Regards, FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 19:23, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Thank you! It's certainly nice to be called nice, where others think I need to be restricted and a friend needs to be banned, see? Did you know I contributed to Kafka? Kafkaesque, Teh Judgment, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:58, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Hm, too much to read! Could you elaborate? What's the problem? Nice articles! FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 15:25, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Read below. Not banned, but restricted, and does it make sense - for the reader? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:49, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Frustrated, sick

Hi Gerda. After reading a few of your comments on various arbitrators' talk page, I'm a little worried about you, and would suggest – with great respect – that you take a few days off from Misplaced Pages. This place isn't worth the stress! With every best wish, AGK 17:42, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

AGK, a LOT of us feel rather frustrated and sick at heart. Montanabw 18:38, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

AGK, thanks for the advice. Please note that I wrote about frustration 22 August. It's much worse today, but I don't have words for it. "In te speravi" --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:17, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

Sadly, I am flooded with words; words I can not ponder to write lest I also become ill. Though things are in fact, worse than they appear, the burden is not yours to carry alone. I insist that you allow me to share that burden and promise that upon your gaze, you will see me, toiling aside you until words are no more. :) John Cline (talk) 22:08, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, John. I heard music. Remember your black barnstar? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:10, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

ps: Andy told me not to behave as if he was banned --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:13, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

Million Award

I've been slow to follow up on your comment at PumpkinSky's page, but you're right--even without the main page appearance, Kafka comes in at just over a million. Which means I get to give one of favorite Wikipedians--that's you--one of these, too!

		The Million Award
		For your contributions to bring Franz Kafka (estimated annual readership: 1,002,000) to Featured Article status, I hereby present you the Million Award. Congratulations on this rare accomplishment, and thanks for all you do for Misplaced Pages's readers. -- Khazar2 (talk) 01:42, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks a "million" for all you do here. It's a much better place thanks to your presence! -- Khazar2 (talk) 01:42, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

Fantastic! Binksternet (talk) 02:32, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

Thank you so much, made my day! This is the first userbox ever that I will use! - My user page is designed differently, feel free to follow the links in the image, - thank you, Khazar, you did it! (For those who don't know: I am proud of editor retention, and won Khazar twice! Looking at the results, that may have been the best I did here.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:49, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

My pleasure, and thanks! You definitely get to count me. -- Khazar2 (talk) 06:31, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

You will like the ensemble mentioned just above, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:33, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

I do! -- Khazar2 (talk) 06:38, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

Elgar Cello Concerto

Greetings, dear Gerda. I have put a bomb under your info-box, but you won't be astonished at that. But really, it didn't add anything of use and made the top right image irritatingly small. With all my respect and affection, as ever, Tim riley (talk) 19:06, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Dear Tim, I am not surprised. Be careful using terms as "bomb", - irony is not easily detected in written conversation, and "battleground mentality" actually used, as "(mental) health". Redundancy is no valid argument, you know that much, right? If the pic size is a concern, it can be easily adjusted, but with caution, for readers with different interests and displays? - I was elucidated today. - Btw, I had the great pleasure to hear the concerto, look at the top if you missed it. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:20, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Ben Gunn (campaigner)

On 2 September 2013, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Ben Gunn (campaigner), which you recently nominated. The fact was ... that Ben Gunn, imprisoned 32 years for killing a friend when he was 14, earned a Master of Arts degree in peace and reconciliation? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Ben Gunn (campaigner). You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

The DYK project (nominate) 08:02, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Your potential admonishment

I've been dipping in and out of the ArbCom case you're involved in, and if I were a betting man I'd say it's quite likely that you'll be admonished (what a strangely pretentious word that is). Anyway, I just popped in to say that if you are, don't take it too seriously. I know from personal experience how difficult it is to see yourself being discussed for weeks on end, often unfairly, without any effective redress, so keep your chin up. Eric Corbett 15:15, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, Eric, you know it of all people ;) - I left the two projects where controversy is seen and where I damage the atmosphere. - Ched left, THAT is what I take seriously. He started the case, he saw it go in the opposite direction from what he may have hoped, we never blamed him, - now I miss him. Don't miss our latest DYK, in the box on top, "peace ..." --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:26, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Gosh, I hadn't seen that Ched's buggered off, what a shame. Eric Corbett 15:39, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Tell him his talk, please. I was physically sick three times on Misplaced Pages, when BarkingMoon left, when I thought Andy had been banned (forgive me, - turned out that my math was too simple), and when I saw the red links on Ched's name today. There was a time when his user page proclaimed that I was the reason for him to stay. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:46, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

To be perfectly honest Gerda I'm not sure I'd encourage anyone to remain here, or even to register as a member. It seems quite clear that the Dark Lord has won the battle of WP, largely using the ridiculous civility policy as a subterfuge. The analogy with the recent Internet law enacted in Vietnam is inescapable. Eric Corbett 15:57, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Nor would I. But I could tell him that I miss him. I have three red cats now, will rival Floq some day. How did you like our DYK? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:07, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

I can tell him that privately. As for DYK, I've got no time for it, a complete waste of space. Eric Corbett 16:13, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

I told him both ways. - DYK: in general you are right, but this one is good for a point of irony, - I was accused of pointed edits several times, this is it (not mine, - look for author, subject and message) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:21, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

There's a time to regroup, but never give up! While the place currently seems to be run by out of control children, it isn't. Can't be letting the dark side of the force troll on unimpeded. Sometimes strategic retreat to fight again another day is advisable, though. Montanabw 21:00, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Hold Your Head Up, Hold your head high. This too shall pass. --Rosiestep (talk) 21:13, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

I hold my head up: Andy will stay with us, "She shall drink of the brook in the way, therefore shall she lift up his head." (paraphrasing Psalm 110) ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:30, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Gerda, these events are best ignored. I don't think it helps to seek more clarification. I am very aware that you have a passionate interest in classical music, including the works of Buxtehude and Bach. That is what counts. Even in secondary matters like infoboxes, which I find useful in some places and not in others, I found you reasonable and accommodating. In BWV 39 you helped expand and improve an inadequate article; doing the same thing for BWV 140 might be a therapeutic exercise. On a personal note, when in London I went into Handel's parish church St George's, Hanover Square and itched to play the chamber organ there, which is illustrated in the external links for Handel organ concertos Op.4 and can be seen here in situ. Perhaps next time. I have written WP articles on two buildings nearby, the Handel House Museum and the Hanover Square Rooms (at one time the main concert hall In London, but sadly demolished in 1900). Music is the thing, the rest is fairly meaningless. Please keep up the good work. Regards, Mathsci (talk) 08:00, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Amen ;) - I said before that I am not passionate about infoboxes, but people, and am happy that we can continue together, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:03, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

For someone who claims not to be passionate about infoboxes, you spend a hell of a lot of your time pushing them and have done so even when the Arbcom case has been in progress: Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Quality Article Improvement/Infobox is all written by you, Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Quality Article Improvement/Infobox is mostly written by you; you turn up at my talk page on the day that one of my articles is the TFA and suggest that it could have an infobox, and make the same comment elsewhere (hardly great timing, and completely uncalled for); you add an infobox to an article that I've written knowing that I'm on holiday, no discussion anywhere of course, leaving me with a fait accompli when I eventually look at it a long time later; as I noted above, you push an infobox back into Gott ist mein König, BWV 71 despite your first attempt being challenged and despite your self-proclaimed restrictions; you advocate infoboxes at FAC and PR to editors who you know take a different view on them to you, risking raising hackles completely unnecessarily; etc. As I've said to you before, "I really wish you found other, more productive things to do than this sterile row over infoboxes." But as you seem incapable of doing so voluntarily, hopefully the forthcoming restriction will make you find better things to do with your editing time. Please. Best wishes, Bencherlite 08:38, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

What did you miss? I left projects classical music and opera, the areas of conflict. If I added an infobox you could simply revert it, and now I will not even add one. If I ask about an infobox - TFA day or another - you can just say no, or yes. Collecting diffs to defend Andy (trying to show that I am the one to better restrict) is bookkeeping, not passion. Thanks for your time, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:46, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

ps: I happen to prefer Inno delle nazioni to Rigoletto, and the infobox is not by me, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:49, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Gerda, the gesture of leaving those two projects is utterly immaterial to you avoiding future conflict. Every time you start an infobox "proposal" on an established article's talk page or at TFA when you know full well that it will be opposed by some of the main editors in the area, and especially by the article's principle author, you will start unnecessary conflict and friction. You may not like that situation, but that's the way it is. If you think that infoboxes are so crucial to the building an encyclopedia that you plan to plow on proposing them and ignore the collateral damage, well so be it, but I hope you give some serious thought to the advice you have been given by several experienced editors who are not members of either the Classical Music or Opera projects. Voceditenore (talk) 10:53, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. I don't plan to start infobox proposals on talk pages, enough is enough. To ask an author whose preference I don't know should be possible, no? Infoboxes are not crucial, but I would like to see Bach cantatas consistent. Please look at the other discussion, to have only one, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:27, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

When did you leave? It can only have been very, very recently, given actions like this. And if you have left, you don't need to bookmark disputes in this manner anymore, do you? In fact, why not just remove the entire Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Quality Article Improvement/Infobox#Infoboxes for discussion section if you're through with infoboxes? Bencherlite 08:54, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

I left on 2 September. I didn't record the reverts of two symphonies after that, and will not add. The page is a historic document, and many links from the case go there. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:09, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps {{hat}} and {{hab}} the section to mark it as history rather than anything active? It might also help lower temperatures and act as a discouragement to others to carry on where you left off. Bencherlite 09:17, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Do it if you think it's helpful. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:44, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Someone appears to have hijacked your account to add an infobox to a classical music article this morning: see Misplaced Pages talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Infoboxes/Proposed decision#Already a dead letter? Obviously it wouldn't be you, not after you reassured me just a couple of hours ago with "I left projects classical music and opera, the areas of conflict. If I added an infobox you could simply revert it, and now I will not even add one." "Phew", I thought, "Gerda is going to put this behind her now." Before I block your account as compromised, is there another explanation? Bencherlite 10:43, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

I answered, "consistency". That I left the project doesn't mean that I don't care about the articles I created or am the main contributor, nor that I will not write new ones. The projects will be free from my unwanted discussions. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:52, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

In other words, you have no intention of complying with the restrictions that arbcom placed on you? "Gerda Arendt is indefinitely restricted from: adding or deleting infoboxes; restoring an infobox that has been deleted; or making more than two comments in discussing the inclusion or exclusion of an infobox on a given article. They may participate in wider policy discussions regarding infoboxes with no restriction, and include infoboxes in new articles which they create.". Where does it say that if your view, you are a main contributor, you can continue adding infoboxes? Voceditenore (talk) 11:05, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Please keep this discussion in one place, the other, where the same question was raised. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:27, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Everyone lay off Gerda. This anti-infobox obsession of the classical music projects is the stupidest, most damaging thing I have ever seen on wikipedia. Over half of all articles already have infoboxes, the only question should be about design and content, not their existence itself. Given that I happen to believe that every article not only needs but deserves a good infobox, maybe I should step up next and start adding them to classical music articles, eh? Then someone can take me to a drama board. Please, let's just never end this stupid infobox war. Sheesh! Montanabw 00:52, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Gerda, I hope you will ignore such inflammatory and, frankly, asinine posturing. I also hope you will not seek martyrdom, as you have plenty to contribute to Misplaced Pages, in music and elsewhere. My advice is to bite the bullet for a bit, and concentrate on the articles that interest you; much needs to be done in the field of Bach and elsewhere. I and others don't have a completely closed mind on the infobox question, and I am happy to continue talking to you about ways in which valid objections (not, incidentally, confined to classical music projects) might be overcome. But you need to be aware that, for a while at least, you will be walking on eggshells on this issue. Keep your profile low, avoid provoking people's sensitivities, and it will be possible to make progress. Fighting to the death is an empty option. Brianboulton (talk) 09:39, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

In case any of that lecture was addressed at me, Montanabw, and just so we're clear, I'm not anti-infobox or pro-infobox in principle - some of my FAs use them, some don't. Many of my GAs use an infobox, {{infobox church}}, that I think exemplifies many of the worst trivialities of infobox parameterization. But that's beside the point for now. What I have been trying to get Gerda to do is to back away from the issue in advance of being forced to do so by the impending Arbcom restrictions, and expressing my frustration when she added an infobox to a classical music article after I understood her to be saying that she would not be doing this again. This just gives ammunition to those who have been saying that Gerda has developed a battleground mentality and / or an "I didn't hear that" attitude, and it gives ammunition to those who want to paint infobox campaigners in a bad light. I know that Gerda is perfectly capable of working excellently across Misplaced Pages on a range of issues, in article space and away from article space - I just think that wasting time on the infobox wars is, well, a waste of time. Bencherlite 10:06, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, all three. As Smerus said several times, I am grown-up (see above). Classical music is not against infoboxes per se, I explained that in detail in the other discussion. I would love eventually to not talk about individual articles, but groups, for example orchestras and Bach cantatas, two topics where I don't see the slightest conflict. Let's calm down and then do it. Any volunteer to take the reverted infobox of BWV 51 and the one proposed for BWV 138 to the respective article? To help the reader understand at a glance that the long German title, followed by a translation and a catalogue number, is a work by Bach? ... year and location? ... let him know the sources of the hybrid text and the voice parts? - Regardless of how good or bad the article is, an by whom, these are facts important for a reader. Please let him have them at least for articles for which I feel responsible, - accepting that it is impossible at present for the several that Nikkimaria wrote. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:02, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Calling for volunteers to carry on the battle in which you're about to be prevented from participating isn't a good idea. It will inevitably be seen as an unworthy attempt to sneak around the restrictions if you do it after the case is closed, so please don't start doing this now. Bencherlite 11:28, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

What can we do? The premiere of one cantata is 5 September. Can we establish a user page where I can propose an infobox and some indepent judges examine it and handle it? Other ideas? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:33, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

So what if one cantata premiered 5 September? Why should I, or anyone else, come up with ideas to help you get around the forthcoming Arbcom restrictions that would prevent you from adding the infobox yourself? Bencherlite 11:39, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

I still think of the readers, more than the authors. It's not a forthcoming restriction that prevents me from adding it myself, but a voluntary 1RR rule. I would modify the phrasing but can't, now that you responded. - Please, keep the discussion one place, - the other. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:50, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

I give up. You clearly aren't in the mood to listen to anyone. Bencherlite 11:54, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Bencherlite, I believe you have good intentions here. But the problem I see is thais: Anyone who is accused of anything, then gets on the wrong side of a dominant faction, simply is not allowed to defend themselves; what I would call "presenting a case, with evidence," is accused of "IDHT" or "not listening" or some other variation of "BOHICA". This troubles me a great deal, because it makes ArbCom and the other places people seek resolution of problems into a kangaroo court or, wore yet, a budding Animal Farm. Montanabw 19:17, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

And that is why this place is broken. You can't fight a rearguard action when there's nothing to defend. I'm also of the mind that "going away until things get better" just makes the shock all the worse when you come back and realize that it's still a mess and isn't getting better. Intothatdarkness 18:50, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Infobox: Holy Sonnets

Holy Sonnets
(Divine Meditations)
by John Donne
Written	possibly 1609 and 1610
First published in	1633
Form	19 sonnets of two quatrains and a sestet
Full text
Holy Sonnets at Wikisource

I'd be interested in how you would propose an infobox for my continuing recent poetry project Holy Sonnets.--ColonelHenry (talk) 12:03, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

some ideas, imagine the pic here, no need for it on my talk, - no more time now ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:19, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

that was in a rush, - realising now that it is a collection of poems I wonder if book would be the better choice or if there is poem collection. I will be not be online for most of the next three days, - singing Schubert in preparation for a concert, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:27, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

I miss performing (bass-baritone, wannabe concert pianist, viola and clarinet) best of luck this weekend. I think book might be the better choice. I'll look over some options this weekend and think about how best to tackle this (amid working on my current project Kirkpatrick Chapel...is there something for song cycles? sonnet cycles?...with poetry collections, we might have to invent an inbox.--ColonelHenry (talk) 02:29, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Believe it or not: I am new to the topic of infoboxes, so don't know if there are song cycles. My approach is to keep them general, I prefer {{infobox person}} to {{infobox classical composer}} and {{infobox musical artist}}. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:40, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

BWV 51 and BWV 138

I'm starting a new section here as this has nothing to do with either your potential admonishment or the proposed arbcom decision, although it is related to the two articles you mentioned in that section. I've added the images and expanded the ledes of these articles to include what you consider the key facts that the reader needs to see at a glance. They are now in the first three sentences of the articles. Irrespective of whether someone eventually adds an infobox to those articles, their ledes were woefully inadequate and needed expansion. An infobox shouldn't be used instead of an adequate lede. It should be used (if at all) in addition to one. Believe it or not, many people actually find reading horizontal text faster and easier than reading vertical text. It might be a good idea to check all the Bach cantata articles that currently have an infobox and ensure they also have an adequate lede. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 18:08, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, for your thoughts and for expanding. Yes, I know, an adequate lede would be nice. The format was developed in collaboration in CM in 2010, the first BWV 191, and grew since to articles such as BWV 103 and a few other GAs. For a more detailed lede, please consider to have first the text sources, then the music. I would debate if "scoring" with single instruments is a good idea in the lede where a general public is addressed who may have no idea what an oboe d'amore is. More interesting: structure, especially if unusual, and relationship to other works, for example base for a movement of a Missa. Please feel free to improve, - see above, I will be offline for most of the weekend, and will have little time in all of September: concert with L'arpa festante. Should that article be moved, in case the dramatic cantata after which it is named might get an article? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:41, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

I don't understand. The lede is for the general reader but infoboxes are not? The reader can't/won't click on oboe d'amore in the lede, but they will in the infobox right next to it? You said here that "the individual instruments give a cantata profile" and were essential information. Anyhow, it was just a suggestion/sample as to how these articles could be greatly improved regardless of whether or not they have an infobox and especially if they do have one. It's not my editing area so I'll just leave it at that. Voceditenore (talk) 22:58, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

You are right. - I think mentioning that a work is the only Bach cantata for soprano and trumpet is a good summary, a copy of the single instruments is less helpful. With a short lede, the TOC is visible at a glance and shows "Scoring". --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:43, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you Gerda for the kind message on my Talk page. I had not encountered you before reading the ArbCom case, but you appear to be a kind, dedicated and courteous contributor of the type that Misplaced Pages sorely needs more of. With very best wishes, MartinPoulter (talk) 15:31, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Editor's Barnstar
	Gerda, I am truly saddened to see the ArbCom finding against you, as you are quite possibly the kindest, most encouraging, compassionate editor on the entire project. Thank you for all your work, both in article space, and in "Precious". Happy editing. Go Phightins! 15:33, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Francis John Williamson

On 7 September 2013, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Francis John Williamson, which you recently nominated. The fact was ... that Francis John Williamson sculpted a statue of theologian and natural philosopher Joseph Priestley for Birmingham, and the Jubilee bust of Queen Victoria? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Francis John Williamson. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

The DYK project (nominate) 16:03, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Symphony No. 8 (Dvořák)

On 8 September 2013, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Symphony No. 8 (Dvořák), which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that rehearsing Dvořák's Eighth Symphony, a conductor said: "Gentlemen, in Bohemia the trumpets never call to battle – they always call to the dance!"? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Symphony No. 8 (Dvořák). You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

The DYK project (nominate) 16:03, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Trying something out

Can you take a look here. The addition is mine. Please let me have your comments, but on my talkpage rather than on the article's talk. as I want to keep this low profile. Brianboulton (talk) 19:03, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Did you intentionally have no link to CM? I don't like the overlap in the last line, but that will go away if liked enough to have the links at the bottom, as for BB ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:50, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Arbitration case closed

An arbitration case regarding behaviour around the use of Infoboxes in several articles has now closed and the final decision is available at the link above. The following remedies have been enacted:

1. Pigsonthewing (talk · contribs) is indefinitely banned from adding, or discussing the addition or removal of, infoboxes.
2. Nikkimaria (talk · contribs) is admonished to behave with the level of professionalism expected of an administrator.
3. Gerda Arendt (talk · contribs) is indefinitely restricted from: adding or deleting infoboxes; restoring an infobox that has been deleted; or making more than two comments in discussing the inclusion or exclusion of an infobox on a given article. They may participate in wider policy discussions regarding infoboxes with no restriction, and include infoboxes in new articles which they create.
4. Gerda Arendt (talk · contribs) is admonished for treating Misplaced Pages as if it were a battleground and advised to better conduct themselves.
5. Smerus (talk · contribs) is reminded to conduct himself in a civil manner.
6. All editors are reminded to maintain decorum and civility when engaged in discussions about infoboxes, and to avoid turning discussions about a single article's infobox into a discussion about infoboxes in general.
7. The Arbitration Committee recommends that a well-publicized community discussion be held to address whether to adopt a policy or guideline addressing what factors should weigh in favor of or against including an infobox in a given article.

For the Arbitration Committee, — ΛΧΣ 00:26, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Archived discussion

This editor won the Million Award for bringing Franz Kafka to Featured Article status.

Stand and sing

• Everybody following the case knows that it was not about infoboxes, harmless things that serve an article like a cover a book, - look if you dare.
• I keep hoping that people will try something out. This looks promising!
• I keep working for peace.
• Ich steh hier und singe. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:27, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Am I livin in a box?

Woke up this morning
Closed in on all sides
Nothing doing
I feel resistance
Because I opened my eyes
Someone's foolin..

-- Hillbillyholiday

You opened my eyes ;) - so many songs! - did you ever read my He was despised? (one of my better boxes on top) - Did you know where "Ich steh hier und singe" comes from? In the stanza "Trotz dem alten Drachen ... und der Furcht dazu", --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:40, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Wow. Still just dipping my toes into that sea, quite overwhelmin for a po' hillbilly like me, but I sure can feel The Holy Spirit. -- Hillbillyholiday 19:13, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

You say the greatest things so simply. Et in Spiritum Sanctum. Singing is so much more profound than writing about it, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:41, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

It isn't classical, but both song and album have infoboxes! And it is a Night at the Opera: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me. But WE love YOU Gerda! So chin up! Montanabw 21:49, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

All that time spent and there still lost.

All I have to say is wow!! I guess nothing will change .. still going to have editor after editor getting into conflict with the related articles. Its simply to bad our admins dont see the problem when it come to editor retention and accessibility. New editors like this guy is still going to get bitten for no reason if someone notice's his edit - bet he will be one of a thousand editors they scare off this year alone. To think its ok that our editors need permission to edit an article is simply nuts. believing a few bans will help a problem that effects new editor alot more then old ones is odd ...this fact demonstrates they are not up to speed with the problem. Perhaps the long long long explanations were simply to much for them to rap there heads around. I am starting to believe the next generation is talking over this Misplaced Pages project and simply dont understand the fundamentals of collaboration and why there are problems of this nature. Dont they think its odd that only a certain segment of articles has this problem - as in endless conflict with new and old editors. Wish you all the best...if you get frustrated with music articles come to history and science articles you will find a much more educated and refined bunch of editors. -- Moxy (talk) 19:08, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for shared thoughts. The newcomer will not be bitten, because orchestra is possible - there is no logic. It's not possible for me - there is no logic. "Mich wundert, dass ich so fröhlich bin", hard to translate, - I am not frustrated. I left opera and CM (two more red cats), but found a new hobby: translate articles of the banned or almost banned to German. Two hours from now, one will be pictured on their Main page, the next in the pipeline. I enjoy a new editor here and an "old" there, some seeds seem to sprout ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:32, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Grace Sherwood FA

Thank you from PSky and Wehwalt for your comment, review, and support of this recently successful FAC. PumpkinSky talk 20:25, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

My pleasure. - Overcoming the first time that I felt "he was despised", that was you in 2010. I seem to be the outcasts' friend, proudly so. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:34, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Me too. With the complete and total den of dysfunctional anarchy and incessant bickering and hate that is all over wiki, I'm PROUD TO BE A WIKI OUTCAST. PumpkinSky talk 22:46, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

It's a big club, and one I'm proud to be a member of too. Eric Corbett 23:03, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Can we make our own category or wikiproject? born rebels Montanabw 18:25, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

We have QAI ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:57, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

We need to attract recruits, want to do up a userbox and link it to a new category? Montanabw 21:51, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Cat is there: Category:WikiProject Quality articles, I don't need a userbox other than the one above for kafkaesque, but feel free to design one, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:57, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Ask for a userbox with category and you shall receive. {{User:Neutralhomer/Userboxes/Outcasts}} There is a redlink since I don't have a direct page for it, but the userbox does work. I used the Terry Gilliam cartoon of one of the Gumbys from Monty Python's Flying Circus for the image. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 22:07, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

You really don't like the userbox? Darn! :( - Neutralhomer • Talk • 22:17, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

I like it, only - see my user page - I don't use any. The Kafka one is the only exception, serving me well for a kafkaesque situation. See: here people talk about pro-boxers, anti-boxers and battleground, while some key people arrived at compromises and experiments. Let's take it from there, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:29, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

I like making 'em, though I don't use too many of the ones I make. :) I'm weird that way. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 22:41, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

I like a little weird ;) - and don't really feel outcast, no worries, I keep singing, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:46, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Selly Manor

On 13 September 2013, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Selly Manor, which you recently nominated. The fact was ... that Selly Manor was moved by a chocolate maker, eight centuries after construction? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Selly Manor. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

The DYK project (nominate) 08:02, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Bach Cantata Day!

Gerda, very saddened to see that you have been experiencing wikitrials and wikitribulations. I just wanted to drop you a line to let you know you are an awesome wikipedian, and this place is much better with you around. In your honor, I listened to several Bach cantatas today, #s 26, 53, 55, 56, 61, 68, 70, 82, 89, 98, 130, 151, 157, 174, 180, 189. Thanks for all the great music. 78.26 (I'm no IP, talk to me!) 02:03, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

You are awesome! (I said so before.) - You can't be sad anymore after that experience, right? Der Geist hilft unsrer Schwachheit auf ((The Spirit gives aid to our weakness)). Did you read the discussion about BWV 138? Warum betrübst du dich, mein Herz (Why do you trouble yourself, my heart), - I heard that one yesterday. The case is closed, but you might still add to the discussion, Include infoboxes in new articles which they create. It's a bit kafkaesque (see above) that the same users who want to protect "their" articles (keep free from infobox) deny others the right to have their articles their way. The interests of the readers seem to play no role. Did you know this is the encyclopedia that anyone can edit? Did you see the "cheerful and optimistic" music on top? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:35, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Really?

The dude has been banned by the community. Posting little awards on his page isn't going to get him unbanned. Most banned users don't even get to have pages with awards of the type you've been giving this user. Because the community has banned them. If you have an issue with his status you can work to appeal the ban. You are intentionally bringing this issue up, and you knew you were going to get a response. Cheers. Doc talk 11:27, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

I just replied there, really, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:29, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

For crying out loud, doc. A banned user isn't Goldstein or Voldemort, a "he who shall not be mentioned." Some people are banned because they argued with the wrong people. Think Napoleon and Snowball. We don't have "enemies of the state" here. Sigh...Montanabw 18:36, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Not only that, when I pass Precious it's for merits, some for past merits. I don't revoke, although during the last weeks I was tempted at times, I must confess, - see above if you haven't ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:43, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

And this is another reason Gerda was treated unjustly! Montanabw 01:41, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

We kinda do have declared enemies of the state: banned users. Not just blocked, but the Supermax of WP. Merridew went there, by his own choice. He knew what he was doing and chose to screw with the community to the point that they had enough. The community that we are still a part of. Yes, he helped a ton of people. He helped me. But the decision of the community to ultimately reject his services was made. There are always appeals. Doc talk 05:51, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

You say "we", whom do you mean? I am not part of that "we". I sing the praises of the banned users and translate their articles. I think you said enough here, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:17, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

"We" is the community. The very reason that you and I are even allowed to post anything here. It takes quite a lot to be banned from it, this community. Neither you or I will ever see that sting. Or... maybe a coup is finally at hand... Doc talk 06:25, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Excuse me laughing. It does not take "quite a lot" to get banned, see? You convert a collapsed metadata box at the bottom of the article into an uncollapsed infobox at the top of the article, an arb interprets it as "That he deliberately parachutes into infobox editing disputes in such contentious areas: (March 2013) concerns me deeply." and votes to ban you, the one vote needed to do so. It could have easily happened. - I think you said enough here, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:37, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Prisoner #24601 can appeal his conviction for stealing a loaf of bread (and escape attempts) just like the rest of us. No hard feelings towards him, and especially you, Gerda. Doc talk 07:28, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

What is that you think compares? Nobody stole, someone helped me to get the infobox that I (the author) wanted, against reverts by those who knew better how an article should look like. Try to do the same to their articles, you will see some difference, it's called "infobox war". - I think you said enough here, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:38, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

The point being that the "crime" was a trumped-up one in both "24601" cases, each more for bearding the lion than for any actual harm done. In both cases, an appeal is to the same Javert who issued the original sentence, so little hope for parole unless unreasonably restrictive, nor for Commutation of sentence, let alone a pardon. The dysfunctional anarchy that is wiki is, unless reversed, on its way to becoming a set of "neighborhood committees". But until then, we content creators shall add what content we are allowed! (sigh) Montanabw 17:17, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

I honestly don't see the dysfunction reversing. If anything it seems to be accelerating. And all this talk of "we" and "the community" sounds a bit too much like the Central Committee for my taste. It is far too easy to justify poor decisions by hiding behind that anonymous "community" construct. That way no one is responsible, aside from the poor fool who ran afoul of the state and was thus sanctioned. Intothatdarkness 18:21, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Time for a roundabout

Good morning Gerda!

Just to remind some of the posters to your Talk that the conflicts in *the real world* make our 'world' here seem Bizarre Magick in the least ...
Cheers!
— Gareth Griffith-Jones| The Welsh Buzzard: Cardiff born and bred | — 09:12, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, Bussard, I feel understood. Please see above that most posters to my talk are people I like to talk to, and some cherished magical conversations are here to stay, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:53, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Precious

Thanks so much for your recognition! Chris Troutman (talk) 06:22, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Just like here?

Thought this might *amuse* you. Cheers!
— | Gareth Griffith-Jones | The Welsh Buzzard | — 09:20, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

probably, looking at the beginning, thank you! My time is limited, though, all weekend rehearsal for Teh Mass, 4 guests already there (two from the US), more to come, more rehearsals Monday - Tuesday - Friday - Saturday. Did you see this, an infobox for a classical composer state of the art in March? That was my starting point, not the battles of the last decade, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:01, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

Have just read your talk via the link above. Best of luck for the coming (hectic) days ahead!
— | Gareth Griffith-Jones | The Welsh Buzzard | — 10:55, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

Hectic? Greatest joy there can be! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:57, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

Yeah ... perhaps I meant assiduous.
— | Gareth Griffith-Jones | The Welsh Buzzard | — 11:04, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for your Awesome Wikipedian sapphire!

A nice surprise, i even feel a little unworthy. Thanks again for your stimulating initiative! JMMuller (talk) 21:29, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

See above, I only follow an initiative started in 2007 and continued by several others, especially the photographer of the sapphire, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:33, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Mass in B minor structure

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Mass in B minor structure you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of ColonelHenry -- ColonelHenry (talk) 16:32, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

Thank you! I plan to add a bit, but there's real life also ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:21, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

• I look forward to it. I'll get some comments up likely tomorrow morning.--ColonelHenry (talk) 20:22, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

DYK for L'arpa festante

On 25 September 2013, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article L'arpa festante, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that the Baroque orchestra L'arpa festante produced the first recording of a Passion by Telemann and played Bach's Mass in B minor in the Cathedral of Trier? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/L'arpa festante. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Gatoclass (talk) 21:33, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks

For your most kind words. Collect (talk) 07:33, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Good to hear from you! More here, "Every good one gone makes it harder to stay", --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:39, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

9 Getreidegasse

Hi Gerda, nothing about infoboxes :-] but you might be interested in translating the hidden text in it.♦ Dr. Blofeld 19:57, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

next week, singing. Btw, the Austrian address would be "Getreidegasse 9", --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:00, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

Mozart's birthplace is better.♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:14, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

indeed ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:22, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Some baklava for you!

A not-so-random thank you for your constructive and friendly attitude. Misplaced Pages needs more people doing the nice things - thanks! Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 06:12, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

much appreciated, tell those who need to restrict me ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:22, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Consensus: The Rite and Sherwood

On the TFAR talkpage you raised the question of why a 13 - 2 consensus on the Sherwood TFA nomination was overridden, while a 10 - 2 consensus against an infobox on The Rite article was upheld as overwhelming. I did not wish to pursue this point on the TFAR talk and possibly provoke more argument there. However, I see the analogy between the two situations as false.

As you know, it is established WP policy that the inclusion or otherwise of an infobox is a matter for discussion and consensus for each individual article. If a 10 - 2 consensus is established against an infobox in an article, there is no authority that can override that. In the case of a TFA, scheduling is the ultimately responsibility of a co-ordinator, who is required to balance consensus on any individual nomination against what he/she believes is the wider interests of the community. Perhaps you believe that no such reserve power should exist; that is another matter. I think Bencherlite will have thought long and hard before taking this decision, knowing that it would provoke an outcry; I would have been happy if he had decided the other way, but overall I respect his judgement and admire the way he has brought the almost moribund TFA system back to good working order. Brianboulton (talk) 23:49, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

I think you misunderstand me here. I didn't question the "Rite" consensus but - as you may remember - thought such a thing should not have been decided by voting but by strength of argument, so didn't even count the "voices" of Andy and my own because we didn't "vote". My question was why you termed the 13:2 vote as you did. It's all too late now that my friend has gone. Sad, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:46, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

My point was general: "in making a decision on any particular issue, Bencherlite should not immediately yield to the loudest clamour of voices". Which, ironically, is much what you said about the Rite issue. As to your friend, I very much doubt that he has really gone – having a sulk is rather more likely. I have plenty of admiration for the work that you and he have done together, but I hope that when he does return he will drop this unwarranted stance of victimhood, stop wallowing in self-pity (everybody hates me!) and get down to some grown-up editing. If he does he will be welcomed back. Otherwise, quite honestly, it's better he should keep away. Tantrums belong in the nursery, not here. Brianboulton (talk) 09:11, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Interesting what you think belongs on my talk page. I am simply sad. But the music of Bach's Mass is still with me, see on top. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:16, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

BB, these cases both illustrate the sort of mob mentality, scapegoating and bullying that is driving off a lot of excellent content contributors. Bencher acted abruptly and without good logic, it was a "teh rulz are teh rulz" logic. The infobox issue was a similar act of knee-jerk IDONTLIKEIT nonsense, also absent logic and reasoning. Both cases were presented for solid, logical and rational reasons, only to be rejected out of hand without rational discourse by an "four legs good, two legs better" clamor on one hand, and a dictatorial attitude on the other. Montanabw 19:02, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Eric Ashby (naturalist)

On 3 October 2013, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Eric Ashby (naturalist), which you recently nominated. The fact was ... that wildlife cameraman Eric Ashby, nicknamed "The Silent Watcher", refused to film tame animals? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Eric Ashby (naturalist). You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

The DYK project (nominate) 16:05, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Mass in B minor structure

The article Mass in B minor structure you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Mass in B minor structure for comments about the article. Well done! Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of ColonelHenry -- ColonelHenry (talk) 21:53, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

• Out of curiosity...which one are you? ;-) --ColonelHenry (talk) 21:55, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the pass. - If you mean the pic on top here: I stand in a position to take the pictures at the bottom (with the manuscript) and sing carried away ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:02, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

• Still wondering which one..."12th from the left" or whatnot. ;-) --ColonelHenry (talk) 23:28, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

• A bit of a matter of privacy ;) - you can tell from the position that I am more on the right, no? hint: when I asked the photographer for the license, he looked at details and said: you have your eyes closed, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:44, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Identitybox

Just to make sure we're not talking at cross purposes, can you tell me exactly what you envision an "Identitybox" to be?

I imagined what you meant by "I like to show an unprepared reader at a glance what an article is about" was exactly what I was aiming for at the article for The End of the Road (which is a bit of a mess now over this stuff). What I wanted was the first box to the right. What was forced on the article was the second (with a Fair Use image that can't be shown on your talk page). Basically, I wanted a box that gave a quick overview to the article, and that applied to all editions. A number of editors at WikiProject Novels have insisted that {{Infobox book}} must be about the first edition, and must include an image of the cover of the first edition. They also strongly suggested I inlcude info such as the Dewey decimal number. Curly Turkey (gobble) 03:16, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

The credit for inventing the identitybox goes to Brianboulton, please read Talk:L'Arianna#The experiment. I don't "envision" it, but think it's a step forward. I would go for a bit more, adding time and place, librettist, language and publishing. I am not familiar with the special requirements for books, but a similar thing happens in music, where some editors want only the premiere performance listed, but I would say that Mendelssohn's performance of Bach's St. Matthew Passion after 100 years deserved mentioning, also the many different editions of a Bruckner symphony (this was installed in 2007, naturally not by me who joined in 2009, - and here people still believe in an infobox war). - It probably needs to be decided case by case, and there's the possibility of having more than one infobox. O dear, how many times did I use the tabu word ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:00, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Adding: in some infoboxes, music has the possibility of listing detailed information about a premiere performance, clearly marked as such, for example, - I could imagine something like that for a first edition of a book, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:50, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

On the books issue, the rational arguments are all on Curly Turkey's side; indeed, the {{Infobox book}} is an example of why writers of opera and music articles generally remain antagonistic to the idea of infoboxes. First, the article is about a novel, not about the first edition of a novel. Secondly, an infobox is defined by WP as a summary of the key facts about a subject. The name of the artist who designed the first edition cover is not key information about the novel, nor is the number of pages, which may well change from edition to edition. Dewey classification is marginal info which also changes with editions. The "preceded by" and "followed by" information is confusing and pointless – does it mean the book is part of a series, or are these merely the previous and next novels of the writer? In either event, it is simply not key information relevant to this novel.

If I were CT I would politely reject the project editors' suggestions. I'd keep the front cover for illustrative purposes. I'd perhaps provide a caption under the illustration stating that this was the "first edition cover, illustrated by Mr X". I'd request that the "Publication date" parameter be specified as "Original publication date", and I'd drop the pages numbers and the preceded/followed by stuff. Brianboulton (talk) 10:44, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

I am CT, and I'd love to "politely reject the project editors' suggestions". If you read the discussion, though, you'll see that that polite refusal is not an option I've been granted. Two of the three editors in question are admins, and I don't doubt ignoring their "suggestions" would result in a block on me. I haven't dared touched the box since GrahamHardy first fiddled with it (although Quiddity has)—I have no intention of being accused of editwarring. I've been informed "the infobox information is supposed to familiarize the audience with the original first edition physical form of the book", which I think is out-and-out ridiculous, but the two admins have decided that it's decided, so no further discussion shall take place. Curly Turkey (gobble) 12:35, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

I saw the discussion ;) - Don't be afraid, not every admin blocks, not even I (who needs to be told that Misplaced Pages is no battleground) was blocked so far ;) - I agree with your reasoning in the case. Now comes the tricky question how much influence the author has. I see double standards: if he wants no infobox, he gets support and protection from the arbs, - if he wants one things are different, look at BWV 138 mentioned above, look for "a dead letter" and follow the link. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:27, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

I don't think that's altogether fair, Gerda. An editor who went about summarily removing infoboxes from others' articles would normally get pretty short shrift. The main areas of discord have been around attempts to impose infoboxes where their inclusion is disputed. To return to CT's problem, the assertion that "the infobox information is supposed to familiarize the audience with the original first edition physical form of the book" is to say the least highly questionable, and doesn't meet the WP Infobox Project definition of "a quick and convenient summary of the key facts about a subject". But I can understand CT's unwillingness to enter into a "brick wall" argument. Sometimes it's wise to step back, even when logic and right are on your side. Brianboulton (talk) 14:48, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

The same editor is at it again. He's fully aware I dispute this. He's added a Fair Use image despite the comment about why there isn't one, and has added fields as well, without discussion, even though he knows I dispute it. He knows he's got a couple of admins to back him up so that I won't have the balls to do nything about it. Curly Turkey (gobble) 20:51, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

I don't know what you mean by not fair. An editor summarily removed infoboxes from others' articles and was just told to behave. Two editors did NOT (in 2013) summarily add (impose) infoboxes to others' articles and were restricted anyway, that's my reading. I am the main contributor to BWV 138, but it doesn't have an infobox like 100 or so other Bach cantatas for the simple reason that I didn't "create" it. Does it make sense? Not to me. Perhaps I have a language difficulty? You won't believe how far I stepped back already ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:05, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps people would be less likely to claim the irrational was rational if they actually read template documentation? In the case of {{Infobox book}}, it says:

preceded_by

Title of prior book in series

followed_by

Title of subsequent book in series or sequel

(emphasis in original). I'm pretty sure the sequence of, say, Harry Potter, James Bond, Discworld or Inspector Morse novels are significant to their readers. I think you will also find that the majority of music articles have infoboxes; and that you don't speak for their writers. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:12, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

I don't understand what you mean by "less likely to claim the irrational was rational" – possibly you meant it the other way round. In any event, the casual reader should not be required to read template documentation to discover that a book is part of a series. Brianboulton (talk) 14:48, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

To be fair, the book sequences were not under dispute. I added them a long time ago out of ignorance, and when it was pointed out that's not what they were for, I removed them, and nobody protested. Curly Turkey (gobble) 12:21, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

I assure you I meant it exactly as I wrote it. However, I was not referring to "the casual reader". Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:56, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Plenty of editors simply copy and paste templates from a model article to the one they're working on and then fill in the fields. Some are not even aware that there is documentation, or how to access it—it's not in the least intuitive that one should preface the template name you see in the article source with "Template:" to reach it. I had long since ceased to be a "casual reader" before I learned that. Curly Turkey (gobble) 20:39, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

What can we template designers do to be read and perhaps be understood better? {{Infobox Bach composition}} Some templates come with one-letter-symbols for view/talk/edit, did you know? {{Benjamin Britten}} Could an infobox have the same? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:54, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

That's not a bad idea. Alternatively, one could place "See ]" as a hidden comment beside the template name:

{{Infobox turkey <!-- see ] -->
|breed     = Curly
|flavour   = Delicious
|best_bite = Drumstick
|gravy     = Fuggedaboutit}}

———Curly Turkey (gobble) 21:32, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Delicious! Only: how to spread the good news, when people don't go to that place because they don't find it, simply copy from chicken? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:57, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

A bot, perhaps? I can't image such edits being controversial. Curly Turkey (gobble) 22:13, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

You mean a bot could add that comment to every infobox in articles? Probably. (So far I thought you meant in the documentation which users don't find.) The same bot could add that the source for the article begins below the infobox - for those who think the infobox code at the beginning of the source is confusing to editors. (You won't believe some of the arguments against infoboxes until you see them. My favourite, slightly reworded: the box takes away attention from my beautifully crafted article.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:35, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Oh, I've seen all the arguments. I'm not entirely sympathetic either—especially to the argument about articles with infoboxes opening with a pile of code. I'd like to see a more elegant solution, and one that's easier for newbies to navigate, but I still see greater value in having infoboxes than in not. Something I do agree with the disinfoboxers over is that infoboxes tend to become dumping grounds for every trivial detail, can be crammed with distoritions or gross oversimplifications, and can be overloked when details in the body change (so that, say, the infobox gives us one figure, while the body gives us another). That's why I'd like to see infoboxes kept short, simple, and to the point, like the box I provided above, rather than something like this, that tells us that this novel, yes this one, too, can you believe it? — has the Dewey decimal number 813. I'm surprised the dimensions of the first edition hardcover aren't provided—how else would a reader know if the book will fit in their bag? Curly Turkey (gobble) 08:08, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Agree! I like the short one and would not need the name of the cover artist. - I am thinking about fields to have in the box (for search functions etc.) but not show. Example: if an article title is Symphony No. 8, you don't need to be shown that the genre is symphony, but would want programs to find it when they look for genre=symphony. - What do you think of the box in Today's feature article? (by the inventor of the identitybox) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:46, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

ps: I agree, see {{Infobox musical composition}}: "The template is very general and therefore offers a great choice of parameters. For a given composition, use only those of relevance," --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:17, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Re: "genre=symphony": is there any reason this kind of thing shouldn't be left entirely to WikiData?

Re: Diary of a Nobody: I do see a couple of issues. "Publisher" doesn't make it clear that it was the first publisher—Andy's proposed changing the parameters to make that clearer. Personally, I'd just drop it from the infobox and keep it in the "Publication history" section of the article, regardless of Andy's proposed changes.

With "Media type" I see multiple issues: "Print, audio and eBook"—this seems to imply that J. W. Arrowsmith, the publisher listed, is responsible for the audiobook and eBook versions. In fact, according to Amazon, there are multiple audiobooks from different publishers, none of whom are J. W. Arrowsmith. Ditto with the eBook. Further, why is the publisher the first publisher, but the medi type all media types? Obviously, the audiobook and eBook versions were not part of the book's 1892 rollout. Again, personall, I don't see "Media type" as being of infobox scope in the first place, and wouldn't consider using it in the first place unless there were some special significance to it (can't think of an example off the top of my head).

Then there's one more thing that has gotten to me for some time: "Author" when there are two? "Author(s)" is an ugly (and common) alternative, but it seems to me that the software should be able to handle something like this, especially now that we have Lua rolled out. Of course, that's a bit outside the domain of article editing. Curly Turkey (gobble) 10:59, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Re: "The template is very general and therefore offers a great choice of parameters. For a given composition, use only those of relevance,": I love the philosphy. The OWNers of Infobox Book don't subscribe to that philosophy, and have decreed the opposite: "The template is very specific and offers a large number of mandatory parameters. For a given book, use all those possible". Software won't fix that. Curly Turkey (gobble) 11:03, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Quattro pezzi sacri

Hello! Your submission of Quattro pezzi sacri at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Yoninah (talk) 22:23, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Quattro pezzi sacri

On 10 October 2013, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Quattro pezzi sacri, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that Giuseppe Verdi (pictured) combined in Quattro pezzi sacri four sacred vocal compositions, including an Ave Maria on an enigmatic scale for solo voices and a Te Deum? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Quattro pezzi sacri. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

The DYK project (nominate) 08:37, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Please stop adding infoboxes to articles in contravention of your Arbcom restriction

Hello - you were restricted in the Arbcom final decision on "infoboxes" - "Gerda Arendt is indefinitely restricted from: adding or deleting infoboxes....They may .... include infoboxes in new articles which they create." . Nevertheless, on 8 October you added an infobox to an article you did not create, with the edit summary "(infobox for an article I translated)" which is clearly not the same as "created". You did not create the article Quattro pezzi sacri. I am not going to delete the infobox or report you to WP:AE or anything but I ask that you refrain from breaking the terms of your restrictions. Thank you.Smeat75 (talk) 18:16, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Define "create", please. Is the creator the one who writes a one-line stub (BWV 49) or the one who writes the rest? I go for the latter and therefore feel within the terms, in both cases. You will have noticed that "Quattro pezzi sacri" was edited by others after me who did not revert the infobox, but improved it. Buon compleanno, Verdi! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:01, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Definition: if the button you first press says "create this page". If it doesn't, as it hasn't for at least two articles now, that's a problem, and what comes after that doesn't make it less of a problem. WP:ARCA is thataway if you want to ask for a new definition. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:31, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice. I almost knew that I had another language problem. I don't believe that "create a page" is identical to "create an article" and think you might agree. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:37, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages doesn't agree and I doubt ArbCom would either, so it doesn't much matter what you or I might think. Another bit of advice: WP:AE is not a fun place, try to avoid it. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:45, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Arbcom was no fun place, and I couldn't avoid it. I learned that this place is no fun place in 2010. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:55, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

You two (Nikki and Smeat) are a couple of pretentious, small-minded little jackasses. In both cases we are talking about a 5x expansion from a stub. And your threats are just the most snot-nosed, tendentious, obnoxious, prissy tattle-tale example of bullying I have ever seen. Get freaking life! Montanabw 22:05, 11 October 2013 (UTC) The DYK standard is considered the equivalent to new article creation. This is a distinction without a difference. Montanabw 17:25, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Montana, if I wanted to bully, I would have taken it straight to AE, and now you to ANI. I don't particularly want to see either of you blocked, whether you believe that or not. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:36, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

ANI notification ... Gerda and Montanabw (arb restrictions and personal attacks). SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:59, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Email

- Neutralhomer • Talk • 22:08, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Request for clarification

Hi. I've asked for clarification regarding your adding infoboxes to articles you expand at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment#Clarification request: Infoboxes. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 03:49, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, the ownership of articles needs clarification, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:15, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Annette Dasch

I can easily switch it to an infobox person! That might make more sense. The background parameter just sets the main color of the infobox to yellow, red, green, or blue, depending on the artist's category. Bonnie (talk) 16:17, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Ariadne

I'm glad you are happy with it! You didn't respond, so I presumed it was all OK.

I have recently re-read (aloud, to my son), Eleanor Farjeon's Ariadne and the Bull, a very clever spoof. Typical of Farjeon, it has poetic descriptions, believable characters, humour that has aged a bit, but not lost its wit. Minos the Judge, spends his spare time doing crossword puzzles invented by Daedalus to distract him, Silenus is the royal butler, Phaedra is a right royal tart, Theseus is arrogant beyond belief and speaks in iambic pentameter, Icarus writes poetry (Shelley and Keats), Ariadne moons and mopes. It has been a favourite in my family for the last seventy years. Amandajm (talk) 11:56, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Thank you! (Only: it's not so important what I think about the image, the author of that FA would be more important ..., - I am only the tireless suggester of an infobox.) - The story seems great, - reminds me of The Ring of the Nibelungs (from one ordinary opera-goer to another ...) by Anna Russell. Seventy years sounds like quite a tradition. How do you like the real drama pictured here? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:06, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Re: alt

Hi Gerda, I think the link alone would be enough. Perhaps just use "see text" as the alt text. Graham87 00:05, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Sounds good to me! Well, it does now that I've made this edit. Graham87 01:27, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, I missed it ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:13, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Saul (Handel)

You may wish to comment at this article's peer review, Misplaced Pages:Peer review/Saul (Handel)/archive1 here. I've left a few comments though I am away until 24th and won't be able to comment further. Brianboulton (talk) 15:46, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

1. The End of the Road: John Barth, Jacket Painting By Robert Watson.: Amazon.com: Books Retrieved 2013-09-19.