Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Ryz05 (talk | contribs) at 15:45, 11 June 2006 (→[] article on featured candidate nominations list). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Pope

...and keep up the good work keeping our current events up to date. I hope you stick around. ;) -- Grunt 🇪🇺 02:33, 2005 Apr 20 (UTC)

Cantus

An admin needs to stop this guy. Please tell whoever you know about this user messing with the images of Pope Benedict. I've already reported it as vandalism in progress. Thanks for your help! -Husnock 03:50, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

His Holiness

I won't change it again, but I still disagree with "His Holiness". People address George_W._Bush as "Mr. President..." -- however that's not how the page starts. It also doesn't start with "President..." It starts with "George Bush, blah blah President." I think something similar would be appropriate here. Quasipalm 05:49, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

BoR

Hey...is this the same Rangeley from BoR? This is Y2A. It's really is a small internet. Jersey Devil 07:59, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

2003 invasion of Iraq

I'm watching that page and I think your edits are good. Merecat 04:39, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, its getting rather annoying (along with the Iraq War article). I wish there was a way to lock just that portion so people would stop messing with it. Rangeley 05:41, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Just now, I made a 3RR report on Gulliver. I think he's a vandal troll. Look at his edits. Merecat 05:43, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Yea, he has made 4 edits that were all reverted in the article so far. Rangeley 05:49, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

I wanted to drop in and say your reasoning persuaded me to do furthur research and I came across the actual resolution through a website THOMAS: Librabry of Congress from there you can look up "H.J.Res.114 - Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 (Enrolled as Agreed to or Passed by Both House and Senate)" The terminology "War on Terror" is used 2x in the document. I have since changed my vote without removing the old one, not sure if I should. Just stated I changed the vote from the one below. I do not agree politically with it, but factually you were indeed correct. --Zer0faults 22:52, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, and rather then remove your first vote, just strike it out, I dont know how to show the code without it striking something out, so just edit this post to get it that way. Rangeley 22:56, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

You can use <nowiki> ~~~~ etc.</nowiki> to show code. Añoranza 07:59, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

RfC

If you haven't done so yet, please go to: Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Merecat right away and add your perspective. Merecat 17:57, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

your voted needed

Please go here: Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Rationales to impeach George W. Bush (2nd nomination). I voted for delete. You may also want to (if that's your preference). Merecat 08:25, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Warning

Removing NPOV tags is a gross offense of wikipedia policy. As are your repeated personal attacks. Stop immediately. De mortuis... 01:37, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Removing of the NPOV tag was unintentional, I was restoring content that was removed (from an old version) and did not think to add the tag. For this I apologize, however, I do not beleive I have ever personally attacked you or anyone else. If I have, please show me where so I can adjust my behavior. Rangeley 01:40, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Wow, your second scalp. Two articles protected now to stop your edit wars , even in spite of a clear consensus against you: . Some of them broke The Three Revert Rule. Añoranza 07:47, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Do you use the IP number that duplicates your edits? Añoranza 08:18, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

No consensus has been reached, because the debate has not concluded. And remember, Misplaced Pages is not a Democracy. A consensus is not the results of a poll. Further, Misplaced Pages is not a battleground. You appear to be attempting to intimidate me because we disagree. I have come to this conclusion by your general attitude towards me, but I may be mistaken. Either way, I think we could both get farther if you lightened up a bit, perhaps not saying my every word is innuendo like De Mortuis did. I know what innuendo is, and this is not innuendo. To answer your final question, no, I do not use IP's to duplicate my edits. Rangeley 16:27, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

You reverted again, this is obscene. I do not intimidate you, I just tell you that wikipedia does not work if single editors like you decide that all others are stupid and should be ignored. Añoranza 16:33, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

I do not beleive you or anyone here to be stupid, however I do beleive that Misplaced Pages is meant to represent the truth. When a large group of people is working to silence this truth, this is no reason to give in. I do not beleive you stupid, but merely wrong on this contested issue. Rangeley 16:36, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

I award you this picture for your 25th revert on a single issue, something I have never seen before, and I encourage you to take the middle monkey as an example, not only the other two. Añoranza 16:42, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Alright, I will continue my policy of speaking no evil. Also you will note that this incident began 12 days ago, on the 26th, roughly making it 2 reverts per day. Rangeley 16:45, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Have you ever thought about the possibility that the 3RR does not mean "please revert 2.99 times per day"? Añoranza 16:49, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Indeed, it says no more than 3 a day, something I have tried to keep track of throughout this entire time. Rangeley 16:53, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Irony was not your strong subject at school, was it? Añoranza 16:55, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

I cannot recall ever taking a class on irony, nor am I in one now. So no, it is impossible for it to have, or currently be, my strong subject in school. Rangeley 16:58, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

So maybe we try it with Socrates: Have you ever thought about what would happen with wikipedia if every user reverted 2.99 times per day on every page where she or he disagreed with consensus? Añoranza 17:06, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

That is a mischaracterization to begin with. If everyone reverted 3 times a day edits that were done without base, we could have likely prevented the John Seigenthaler scandal - which came from a lack of reverting a false edit. There is no consensus in this issue. A preliminary poll, even when concluded, is not a consensus. This poll is not even finished. Consensus? Hardly. Rangeley 17:10, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

We are getting closer. Have you ever thought what would happen if everyone would just edit with the attitude "even if many are against me I am for sure the one who knows best and can decide on my own which edits have a base"? Have you ever thought what would happen if all discussions were ignored until all sides give in that there is a consensus, including sides which generally think that what others do is without base? Have you ever thought how in such a wikipedia a consensus could ever be reached and how much time would be lost? Añoranza 17:22, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Those who are right should never give up merely because the side that is incorrect has, at this time, more people. Obviously if everyone merely assumed themselves right, we would get nowhere. But I am not merely assuming I am right. After debating for such a long time, I am more sure than ever that it is a part of the campaign. Can you say the same? Are you more sure than ever that it was not started as part of this campaign, or are you just banking on the fact that you have more people on your side? Rangeley 17:35, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Who do you think sees clearer, those who make most edits or those who just think calmly? As the other side keeps telling you you are wrong, have you thought about the possibility that we are already getting nowhere with edit wars? After so many edits you still have not gotten the point that the debate is not about what the US government says what the Iraq war is but what it should be neutrally described like in an encyclopedia? Añoranza 17:44, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

I have been calm throughout this entire 'edit war' as you call it, and have not resorted to calling anyone names, or claiming anyone suffers from a mental illness. Most certainly we are getting nowhere when the page is merely reverted on no basis, something that others have frequently done. I agree 100% that we are not, as an encyclopedia, aiming to present everything any government states as fact. However, I understand that when a government begins a program, or campaign, and then carries out different things under these programs or campaigns, it is not biased or POV to recognize that the actions are part of these wider programs or campaigns. It is not POV to recognize the rounding up of Jews and the concentration camps are linked. They were part of a Nazi program, in which many different things were carried out. Most people today call it the holocaust. When you look at each thing seperately, you fail to see the intent behind it, and you might get the idea that it was a mere coincidence that the events happened. But they were carried out under the same program, as such, today we can recognize the true scope of the destruction.

In this issue, the US Government and allies began a campaign, under which different things are being carried out. When you put them together, as they should be, you understand the true scope of them, rather then beleiving that its a mere coincidence that they happened at a close time. They cannot be looked at seperately, because they were carried out under the same campaign. It is our job, as an encyclopedia, to recognize this. Rangeley 17:56, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

If you refuse to accept anything dozens of others tell you does it really mean their edits are without base? If the Nazis' term Endlösung der Judenfrage (final solution of the Jewish question) had been popular at the time should an encyclopedia have used it without quotation marks or comment as captions and tagged it on dozens of articles? Añoranza 18:21, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

We can deal with the name, and whether or not it should have quotes, after this one part is settled. Do you agree with me on my point, that it is neither POV or biased to recognize that the different components were part of the campaign they named Endlösung der Judenfrage, which most of us call the Holocaust? Rangeley 18:29, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Progress, wow. It should have quotes at least. Cool. And we can deal with the name. Great. That is all I ever wanted. Dealing with you seems rather tedious though. But there is something good in everyone. I agree that rounding up and concentration camps were part of the campaign the Nazis called Endlösung. A term equally inappropriate for wikipedia template titles or captions as "war on terror" as both are inherently not neutral and widely criticized. Añoranza 23:32, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Alright, so if that is settled, then we now agree that it is not POV or biased to recognize the Iraq War as part of the conflict in question. Now, if we are to analyze it, the name Holocaust portrays a POV, and will always create negative imagery. So the reason we use this name is not because it is perfectly neutral, but rather that it has become the common word for the event. The War on Terror is no different. It portrays a POV, however this is as much an issue as it is with the holocaust, or the new deal, and a great many other things. For instance, Christianity. The name, Christian, means follower of Christ. But the problem lies in that Christ is not Jesus's last name, but rather, it is the term for 'messiah' or 'savior.' Some people do not think Jesus is the savior/messiah. Does that mean we cannot use the term Christianity? No, it does not. When Misplaced Pages uses the term Christian or Christianity, it is not saying it to take a point of view that Jesus was infact the savior, but rather it is recognizing that Christian and Christianity are the most commonly used terms for the followers, and the religion itself. Again, the reason we use these terms here is not because they are perfectly neutral, but instead because they are the most common terms for their respective things. This, too, is why we use the name War on Terror as the conflict in question. When Misplaced Pages uses this term, it is not taking the POV that the war is right, but rather, it is recognizing that this is the most commonly used term to apply to the conflict. This is not POV. Rangeley 00:15, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Holocaust portrays the POV that what was done to the jews was a disaster or catastrophe. Given that courts decided that there was a genocide and a crime against humanity this POV is widely accepted. The POV that the Iraq war was on terror is not. Thus, using a propaganda term that implies exactly this is unacceptable. And please stop telling me that the Iraq war is most commonly called part of a war on terror. An overwhelming majority of the part of the world population that is aware of it would not agree. And even if it was the most commonly used term, should the article penis become a redirect to willy if it was found out that the latter was used more frequently? Añoranza 00:55, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

But its POV just the same, no? Again, dont muddy the issue. It has been agreed that the Iraq War is part of the campaign, no disputing this. The press, and a majority of english speaking individuals refer to this conflict as the War on Terror. Iraq War = Part of Campaign. Campaign = War on Terrorism. Therefore, Iraq War = Part of War on Terrorism. Its simple logic. Rangeley 02:17, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

It is not the same. As I wrote a dozen times now, the term is not universally accepted but clearly favors one side and is heavily criticized by many. Show me ten pages where holocaust is put in quotation marks in the same way. The majority of English speaking individuals are not American neocons, and even if they were, it would still violate NPOV to use their propaganda in captions and template titles. Añoranza 10:36, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Reverts without even a summary are not helpful

Stop it! Añoranza 23:19, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

I was under the assumption that vandalism was not helpful. I know you have an issue with the term. But here is your problem. 1. No consensus exists stating that the Waziristan War is not part of the war on terror, in fact, your own argument in previous places, that the War on Terror is against Al Qaeda and the Taliban, should make it clearer than anything in your mind that it is indeed a part of it. 2. Questions of POV go on the article in question, not everwhere else. For instance, if the article on George W. Bush were of questionable POV, such template would be placed on the article itself. Not in every article linking to it as something in (parenthesis).

I couldnt easilly fit that in a summary, but I thank you for coming to me so that now we are both on the same page. Rangeley 01:21, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Didn't fit is the lamest excuse I have ever heard for not writing a summary. Summary means summarized. Pointing out that a term is criticized is not vandalism. Añoranza 00:11, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Indeed it is not vandalism to place an NPOV notice on the page itself. But putting it in parenthesis after it is linked to is vandalism. Rangeley 01:54, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

I just tried to make it as small and specifica as possible. It is ridiculous to post an NPOV tag on a whole article just for one phrase. Your definition of vandalism ignores wiki rules. Añoranza 01:14, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Thats not what I said you should do. An NPOV tag should be placed at the War on Terrorism page as thats the article in question. But just like we dont say George W. Bush (this article is locked due to vandalism) or Thursday (this article is featured), we do not put (this term's neutrality is disputed) after any disputed term when it is linked to. Rangeley 02:38, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

The neutrality of the article "War on terror" is not disputed by me. I dispute that using the propaganda term without quotation marks and a comment as a header elsewhere is neutral. Añoranza 08:58, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

As Rangeley pointed out adding (this term is disputed) after every single mentioning of "war on terror" is quite inappropriate for the reasons he has mentioned above. Also if you feel the term is propaganda and should be used in a certain way, then that is a discussion best left for the page where the term is linking to, not every page the term appears on. Having 8 discussions all taking place on the same topic is not efficient as centralizing that discussion to the war on terror page. Also please see Misplaced Pages:Neutral point of view as to what POV tags are, and how you are leaving commentary, not a tag. --Zer0faults 14:36, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

As I already explained above, the appropriateness of a propaganda term in an article can only be discussed in that article. It is an entirely different question whether a propaganda term should be used without quotation marks and comment in an article about something else or whether there should be an article about the term. I see no way to add the tag into the box and I regard it as inappropriate to add an NPOV tag to the whole article if only one term is disputed. Añoranza 18:58, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunatly, just because you "regard it as inappropriate" does not change the Wiki Policy which is linked above. Please follow the appropriate using of POV tags as stated in the policy article. Thank you --Zer0faults 13:33, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

As you know very well, I am not the only one who regards propaganda terms inappropriate in such cases, and NPOV tags should be as specific as possible, otherwise the reader has not much benefit. Añoranza 10:59, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

I am not sure why you are still arguing this after you have found the correct tags, which means you were using the wrong tag before. I agree they should be specific, which is why they have tags that accomplish that, only you asserted that the whole article needed to be tagged, and then you went ahead and did it. Noone todl you too, in your haste to tag the topic, perhaps you just skipped over the correct tags. I am glad you found the correct ones, if I can be of any other help, please use my talk page and not poor Rangeley's --Zer0faults 11:48, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Can you do me a favour

Please spreading dirty lies that Referendum won,because it far from over unofficial results vary from 54-46 to 55.5-44.5 but it seems like croocked dirty independists failed,so please dont be saying its over until 10 am when we will get official results.Thank you very muchDzoni

I know that this is obviously a personal issue for many people, and I have reverted several edits made by those stating that they are now independant. However, this is not because I beleive the projections to be wrong, but instead because regardless of whether it has won or not, the two nations will remain together until they officially seperate. When and if this happens, that is when we should state Montenegro as its own nation. So again, if I have offended anyone it was completely unintentional. Rangeley 03:37, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

The reason I spoke to you is this sentence :"Likewise, while this referendum has been won by the independence movement, it has not yet been put into action."

I just wanted to point out to you that "this referendum has not been won" and with Gods will,if results stay as they are,referendum lost,but your sentence presumed its all over and thats why I spoke to you.You should be carefull,because just a couple of words can offend people.Thank you Dzoni

Response

Although I feel multi-ethnic states and unity are preferable to division amongst ethnic lines I also acknowledge that people have to be pragmatic and take things as relevant to the situation they face. Western Sahara and Kurdistan are currently based in oppresive areas where the people are punished and would be better protected if independent yet this is not the case for Serbia and Montenegro. Ultimately my dream would be to see the world unified in one state but I accept that is extremely unlikely and at the moment I look at things in relative terms. Horses In The Sky

United States article on featured candidate nominations list

Misplaced Pages:Featured article candidates/United States

Cast your vote! The more responses, the more chances the article will improve and maybe pass the nomination.--Ryz05 _t 01:29, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you - U.S. FAC

Hi,