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Thanks

"I don't know why, but somehow I am convinced of Memills's good will."

HA! PSYCH!! Fooled ya!  ;-P

Actually, nicest thing I've heard all day. Appreciate the sentiment and your willingness to express it. Memills (talk) 21:39, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

• You know, shit happens. You apparently made some edit that fell foul of this ban and owned up to it, so it's all good as far as I'm concerned. Mind you, I'm following Bbb's lead. Take it easy, Drmies (talk) 21:56, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

Interaction ban

Drmies, I'll ask you to be more specific about who is affected by the iban. Spell it out, please. I cast a !vote in support of a ban affecting both parties equally, because that would end a stream of personal attacks, and provide a measure of natural justice. Should those attacks continue, I'd like a solid basis for seeking redress - as, indeed would the other party. --Pete (talk) 01:12, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

• I hate to be dense, but huh? An interaction ban was proposed between HiLo48 and Skyring, which is you. It was approved unanimously by nine or so editors. I closed the discussion saying an interaction ban between HiLo48 and Skyring, which is you, is decided on and logged. Terms are to be found in WP:IBAN. What's the question? Whether it applies to both sides? That's the very definition of an IBAN, it seems to me, unless one side is forbidden from interacting with the others, which is not what was proposed.

  Now, I will grant you that the initial proposal is a bit unclear in that it blames you, but it does not propose a one-way interaction ban. You could, of course, read through those comments and take them to heart: they all seem to agree that your conduct has been abominable. What you probably don't want is for me to plow through your edits and find the evidence for the disruption spotted by so many other editors, and block you for it. In other words, I really think you should count yourself lucky (lucky that ESL didn't specify more clearly--they may still do so, at WP:AN) and quietly back out of the room. Have a nice day, Drmies (talk) 01:44, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

This is my first look at WP:IBAN ever, and it looks to be entirely one-sided in that editors X and Y are serving different roles in the examples given. Sorry, but I'm not having a go at you, I'm just asking for clarification.

Um, yes, I would like my edits to be ploughed through and scrutinised. That's why I continually asked for diffs to be provided. I don't know about the usual conduct of iban discussion, but I would imagine that diffs would be presented as evidence of the behaviour viewed as needing sanction. Having an iban discussion where zero evidence was presented has got to be unusual. --Pete (talk) 02:09, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

X and Y are variables. In this case, what applies to X applies to Y as well. In other words, you two are generally allowed to edit the same pages or discussions as long as you avoid each other, but are banned from interacting with each other in any way. That means you don't talk about each other unless it's covered by WP:BANEX. As for your next question, evidence was provided in the thread at ANI; for instance, you violated the other editor's request to stay away from their talk page. BTW, your commenting in that ANI thread was seen as badgering (certainly as unhelpful, even by someone as friendly as Kim Dent-Brown), and I suggest you take that to heart as well. No one likes the wikilawyering, and I don't either. If by now you haven't gotten the message, maybe you never will; I hope, though, that you will. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 02:38, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification. The matter of the talk page was discussed and resolved. Maybe I'm being dense myself here, but telling me that I haven't got the message when the message itself isn't specified, is not helpful. If my interaction with another editor is seen as disruptive or abusive or in some other way negative, then it would be good to have that precisely highlighted, especially when I view my own contribution as positive. That applies for everyone: we all make mistakes, we all misunderstand, we all muddle our communications from time to time, and most of us regard detailed feedback in that area as valuable, especially when presented in a civil and helpful manner. --Pete (talk) 02:53, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

You don't need to respond to that last. You've addressed my initial query satisfactorily. And for that, thank you. --Pete (talk) 02:55, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

• Just a general comment -- if what was suggested, and what was imposed, is a two-way ban ... that is certainly appropriate. It is not automatic that bans are two way by any means -- one can impose a ban on one party, where that party is the one causing problems. Society does the same all the time with stalkers and problematic spouses, for example -- they don't put a restraining order or an interaction ban on both parties, but only on the one causing problems. But, from the above, that does not appear to be what was requested or imposed here.--Epeefleche (talk) 02:54, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

Thank you!. Hate to be a pest here, but my understanding is that the iban began the moment that the discussion was closed, and that neither party may address, comment on, or interact with the other party in any way, and that (say) comments on their own talk page would be a breach? Is there any grace period? --Pete (talk) 03:16, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

Yes, there is: I'm going to let HiLo's comment slide, though I will remind them that the party's over for them as well. Drmies (talk) 03:25, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. I wasn't going to be a prick over it, but the point needed to be made. Hopefully that's an end to it. --Pete (talk) 04:09, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

Sure thing. Thanks for the reminder. Drmies (talk) 04:23, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

Dashes are lovely things

I love you like a brother from another mother, Drmies, but the niggling lover of print in me can't rook the constant --'s. I assume you're a Mac person: the keystroke for an emdash (—) is Shift+Option+--. If you find yourself on a PC, it's Alt+0151. An endash (–) on a Mac is simply Option+-; on a PC it's Alt+0150. I'll now crawl back into my hotel-dwelling hole. Still weeks before I can return home.  davidiad { t } 01:58, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

• Well...eh...how does one say "kiss my ass" politely? Ha! Go sign some people up for health care and let me take care of matters IN PROPER MLA STYLE from a netbook--on which where you can't do Alt+numbers. And no, this girl is not a Mac person; I thought about it, but I can't stand the way the keys feel on my wife's Macbook. Or the sharp edge of the machine itself. Now, I'll tell you that I have someone on payroll who takes care of such formalities, in return for which I reward them with barnstars and say nice things about modern art. Must be a quiet night there, huh? Not a Colts fan? Then get an early night's sleep. In other news, I'm reading A Time to Keep Silence by Patrick Leigh Fermor; very interesting. Drmies (talk) 03:14, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

All this talk of dashes is a huge turn-on. Davidiad, do ensure that your numlock is off (I can't think of a good reason to have it on, ever, on a PC). Drmies, your remarks are very entertaining! Tony (talk)

I gave up on authority and respect a long time ago; aiming for entertainment value suits me better. BTW, I'm sure I can get those fancy dashes using the pull-down menus with characters and stuff (in the wiki editing screen); that I can't get the Alt+number thing on a netbook is a neverending source of irritation. Davidiad can feel my pain, once he realizes that I occasionally write German and Anglo-Saxon. Tony, an em and an en walk into an Amsterdam hotel room, and they're not married to each other. Who gets the side with the alarm clock in the adulterous bed? Drmies (talk) 03:34, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

Tony, are you joking about the numlock? Having a 10 key pad is my number two consideration when buying a laptop, the first being that it is not a mac. Ryan Vesey 03:38, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

I remember vividly when I was a typist, and finally had memorized the num keys so I could type bills without looking at the keyboard. A glorious moment. Still, I'm glad I don't have that job anymore; words are more fun. Drmies (talk) 03:41, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

• Two more things about punctuation: a. dogs suck at it. b. my daughter claimed in her "ancestry project" that it was one of the things she learned from her family. WTF? Drmies (talk) 03:50, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

• • Ryan, you have my every sympathy. I can't imagine what it's like to drive a Trabant when a Mercedes is available. :-)

    DrMies, how many en dashes does it take to change a ... oh well, tell me punchline for the alarm-clock joke, then. Tony (talk) 03:55, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

• Ha! The polite way to say "kiss my ass" is "kiss my ass". Yeah, it's a slow night here and I'm getting pretty pissy about my being held hostage in the hotel. The system goes live tomorrow. It passed the necessary testing threshold yesterday and Arkansans will get their healthcare, but there are still tweaks to be made and I miss my cats and the only local I can stomach something awful. Hence, I assume, my punctuation outburst. But, mind you, I've got to type in polytonic Greek half the time and still manage the dashes that get me so hot. My father loves A Time to Keep Silence, by the way. If he could work the email, I'd put you two in touch.  davidiad { t } 04:02, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

Hygiene, please, Davidiad. And this is not Wikivoyage, let's remember. And I'm a Mac–dog guy, not a Windows–cat guy ... I just can't help it. <smile> Tony (talk) 04:53, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

I had a close shave with a Trabbie in Arnstadt only six weeks ago. Driven by a fierce-looking post-Honecker lady, it just wasn't going to give way to me. Tony (talk) 13:43, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

• Prejudice, I suppose. The Honecker lady had them, I mean. Hafspajen (talk) 14:09, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

By the way

Apparently I promoted you to admin. Cheers. I know you didn't mean it about the boneheaded, or at least, you meant stubborn and not stupid. Andrevan@ 03:34, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Personal info

Although I don't know all the specific rules, this post raised a red flag as something that may need administrative attention, as it identifies a non-notable BLP and accuses them of making false and libelous statements without a source. CorporateM (Talk) 04:19, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

• I've redacted the names. Thanks. Glad I'm not involved with that article: it looks awful. Drmies (talk) 04:38, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Hello Drmies - I believe there are numerous BLP issues with this talk section: https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Suburban_Express , specifically the repeated use of the name of the owner of the company that is the subject of the article. Example: "Actually, I think this article and the talk associated with it is a shameful display of everything that is wrong with Dennis Toeppen." Arri at Suburban Express (talk) 05:12, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Another example: "It may be a good idea to mention cybersquatting in the article since Dennis Toeppen uses Suburban Express as a front for his cybersquatting activities" Arri at Suburban Express (talk) 05:16, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Oops, some of those copyvios aren't if you consider the licenses/permissions in the Conventional Media Sources section. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk%3ASuburban_Express&diff=580262236&oldid=580262138#Conventional_Media_Source_List Arri at Suburban Express (talk) 05:20, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Well, feel free to revert me, and feel free to take care of suspected BLP violations yourself then. I don't feel the slightest urge to match postings with dates, though the Daily Herald release postdates some of the links I removed. I don't know whose side those IPs were on; if they were on yours, perhaps a media strategy should have been thought out before. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 05:25, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

That is a good point. Permission was granted recently and the posts were old. Good catch. Arri at Suburban Express (talk) 05:27, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

It's better to be safe than sorry: note that I said "likely" copyvio. I removed some of the old ones; you are in a better position than I am to judge which ones are OK to keep and which ones are not. I'm really not looking to get involved, but I will say this: I typically have some faith in the judgment and neutrality of CorporateM, even though he sometimes (foolishly) disagrees with me. BLP violations are of course to be stamped out, whichever side they're coming from--but you can do that just as well as I can, and if need be I will be glad to provide a second opinion. As a general rule, be very, very wary of including names (this directed to all sides, of course). Can I say something as a PR novice? Without wanting to meddle into anything, transparency is always the best policy. You can tell I'm a Liberal Arts kind of person. Drmies (talk) 05:31, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, I support removal of the BLP violations against the SE owner as well. Hey, hey, I think you are the one that's foolish enough to disagree with me! (*smirk) CorporateM (Talk) 11:56, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Hrm, there are harassment, personal attacks, outing and battlegrounding issues all over that page. Ok, back to Edelman (firm) where I can edit in solitude the way I like it ;-) CorporateM (Talk) 17:01, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Good Strangelove quote. Would you please direct me to the relevant rules and policies so that I may endeavor to respect the local customs? Arri at Suburban Express (talk) 17:16, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

More importantly, what is the correct way to induce a COI editor to reveal their COI? The SE article has been repeatedly mutilated by COI editors and what appears to be a paid editor. When a COI is known but is not disclosed, what is the proper course of action? Asking the editor to disclose his COI seemed reasonable to me, but doing so clearly raised the hackles of several users. I don't really understand that. Thanks Arri at Suburban Express (talk) 17:22, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

It is fairly obvious the IP has a coi, and asking about it is fine. However they are not required to reveal who they are, merely that they have a COI. Since they are not editing the article, their duty to reveal anything is very limited. However, your posts on the article talk and that ip talk started to cross the line into outing and other threatening personal attacks Gaijin42 (talk) 17:25, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

My goal was an honest revelation of COI. I felt that IP did not do that. I had no intention of revealing his name or personal information, and none was revealed. I left it up to IP to decide what to do. If you look back in the talk page, you'll see that IP was engaging in harassment. It seemed to me that a COI disclosure by IP was necessary but not undertaken. Arri at Suburban Express (talk) 17:33, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

I believe Gaijin42 is referring to the personal message you sent. Additionally, at no point did I harass or intimidate you with threats or messages insinuated to be threats/intimidation as you did. 24.15.78.1 (talk) 17:48, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Excuse me, I am having a discussion with others here. Arri at Suburban Express (talk) 17:56, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

The more the merrier. Gaijin42 is correct: you may ask, but there is no requirement that they cough up their identity or the exact nature of their conflict or interest, if they have one or the other. If there is evidence of harassment it should be provided; that's a matter for administrators to handle. And since they said they weren't going to edit the article or the talk page (haven't checked in a day or two) it's not a pressing concern. Now, the COI tag can be added (to an article or an editor) if there is reasonable suspicion that a COI exists and that it affects the neutrality of an article (the latter is a must for the tag to be added in article space--see "When to use" at Template:COI, and it should be accompanied by discussion. If a COI exists (or is deemed to exist) but editors deem that it does not interfere with the article's neutrality, there is no need for a tag. Drmies (talk) 18:52, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Hi Drmies. I did want to notify you that I posted on the Suburban Express talk page. I attempted to keep my conversation relating directly to the content by providing sources that refute the assertions made by Arri at Suburban Express. However, my edit was put in a new section without consent. Since the string ended in not adding much value to the conversation, I apologize. 24.15.78.1 (talk) 21:04, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

English Prof

I believe you and Dr. Bernie Warren are kindred spirits. Your noses look awfully similar. Bgwhite (talk) 05:47, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

• Indeed, that looks fun. Hafspajen (talk) 13:13, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Your images

Love the dog mug shot above. And am wondering about your user page interest in decapitations in the fine arts, but am not asking for any explanations. We each of us have baggage.

Now, to the subject at hand. I'm growing weary of stemming the flow of COI edits at the autobiography of Soura Pandey, with no response thus far at the COI and page protection noticeboards. My questions are whether an SPI is merited (I hope not), and if the article is a candidate for AfD. I've avoided that as there's a claim to notability, but I'm not sure where the song charted--Bangladesh, perhaps--or if the chart that's cited carries weight. Any thoughts would be welcome. Cheers, JNW (talk) 14:22, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

• ReverbNation is not a reliable source, and I don't see any "charting" there--unless it's the totally unclear "Rank No.7". The IP is probably the author, sure, but SPI doesn't link IPs to accounts, and at any rate it's nothing we can't handle. Why not try AfD? Not notable and purely promotional, as far as I'm concerned. And if trouble persists, the subject can be made to stop editing, as a promo-only account, if evidence warrants it. Drmies (talk) 15:16, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
  • Thanks. I was also thinking of his connection to the blocked account . JNW (talk) 15:31, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Turkish massacres

Doc, as an acknowledged expert in the area, do you have any pearls of wisdom to drop here? Abecedare (talk) 17:29, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

• Who, me? Drmies (talk) 17:48, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Of course.

Three reverts and a warning, and it goes onto my CV and my speaker's bureau bio. What are your standards? :) Abecedare (talk) 17:53, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

There was a bit more to it, as you can see in the discussion; note the long list of removed edits from the history. Thanks for the note; always glad to help. I look forward to the check. Drmies (talk) 18:36, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

It is a pet peeve of mine that threads on AN, ANI etc can languish when they don't involve perennial issues/editors, or need someone to take a look at the content of the dispute. I can imagine that if I were in Fatbob5's position, such unresponsiveness would drive me to edit-warring or away from wikipedia altogether. So, thanks for taking a look (and catching the copyvio). The opportunity to stand up for a fellow-Dutch, I assume, is payment enough. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 18:49, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

You've got mail!

ES&L 11:37, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Today

Breakfast, has everybody, page stalkers and the Doctor had breakfast Today? I guess people all around the word will eat their breakfast, some right now, some finished for some hours ago. And I suppose that you had no idea what you were doing, right? Breakfast, I think most people since they do eat breakfast every day, know what thwey do. But some editors think that it is time to bucher this article again. For some time ago almost everything (litterally) got deleted. just like that. There were some ideas pioting that way allready. . Who's who? Never mind. And the Deletions happen every day. The tagg is up again, Primary sources! Original original research! Our not so logical friend is on the warpath, claims ownership of this article and removes every sentence added without a ref on. UNSOURCED! Please, everybody who had some breakfast and can prove this with the right kind of references, add references to the article from your part of the world. SOS. Please. Hafspajen (talk) 14:56, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

• I've had breakfast, thanks, and so have all the other mammals in the house. Baby Liam already has mud on his face; I'm home since he has an ear infection and conjunctivitis (and a ruptured ear drum!), so y'all don't hug him too much since it's contagious. Tack for frukkost, Drmies (talk) 15:06, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

• Oh, my God, that's not good. Did you take him to the doctor? Hafspajen (talk) 15:10, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

• Well, Mrs. Drmies took him yesterday. He's had two loads of antibiotics already since last night and is doing much better. It's the coughing at night that's wrecking Mrs. Drmies and me. But today--Warrington, you should see him. Mrs. Drmies and I still can't believe we make such beautiful children. Drmies (talk) 15:22, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
• Mrs. Drmies I guess is really lovely. Hafspajen (talk) 15:10, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Help

• DRMIES; I cant use my usurped Warrington-Hafspajen account adress (the one with the 10 000 edits). Somebody got in an autoblocked me. Autoblocked because your IP address was recently used by "NoahS24fgtp". The reason given for NoahS24fgtp's block is: "Spambot". Or what is THIS= And take a look at the post I posted om vandlism, my edits on that. I think somebody blocked me away because I did that. (this is the global Sw account, that is still working, there was a difference since the usurpation, the old one was different from the global. ) Elockid I think blocked me. And I was the one to suggest that? Never did that. Crazy. Or what is THIS all about? a joke? Hafspajen (talk) 17:10, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
• No, not a joke--a glitch of some sort. See WP:ANI, "Help. Quick." You're not the only one. Drmies (talk) 17:30, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

• OK, I take the global account off, not to get blocked there too (a different password) But it may give you a hint that it concentrates on English wIKI. sOME PICTURES GOT SUDDENLY DELETED ON THE oLLDE eNGLISH bULLDOGGE ARTICLE, TOO. mAY BE THE SAME STUFF? OOps. I am logging off now, cant make the edit look better. Hafspajen (talk) 17:43, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

This Ip has nothing to do with the mess? Ip talking about programing..? or it is just a coincidence? Hafspajen (talk) 17:56, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

• Nope, and it has nothing to do with you as you, so to speak (or with Sitush--though I have my doubts about him sometimes). Drmies (talk) 17:59, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

• I'm back going, thanks. (Well, obviously). Couldn't edit anything, not even my own talk page to post the message that the autoblock told me to post. Tbh, I'm surprised that the message gave the option since I would assume that an autoblock completely nukes all ability to edit. A weird wired world, and a frustrating one. - Sitush (talk) 17:58, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
  • Cool. Hey, I got my dad's bike cranked up the other day. First stop, Honda dealer, for a brake job. Drmies (talk) 17:59, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
    • I could do that for you. Take one pair of wire-cutters ... - Sitush (talk) 18:06, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Would any of you have a chance to have a quick peek at Olde English Bulldogge (the article Hafspajen mentions above) to throw some light on what might have happened to the images as they were displaying this morning? The article isn't great but we were trying to work towards helping the editor who put the images in improve it. SagaciousPhil - Chat 18:28, 6 November 2013 (UTC) PS: I love the 'convicted' arrested lab picture at the top of your page!

• HOLD ON SPHILBRICK: BLP violation. Arrested, not necessarily convicted. Who made you an admin? (And the photo is courtesy of Hafspajen, of course--who had to bail his dog out after it made a rude gesture to a Norwegian border guard, I'm told.) Drmies (talk) 18:41, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Whoops ...... SagaciousPhil - Chat 18:55, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Wait: am I not committing the same violation by posting the dog's mug shot here? Who should I apologize to? I'm dragging my great-aunt Afra's name through the mud here... Drmies (talk) 19:09, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for checking the images, Yngvadottir! SagaciousPhil - Chat 19:23, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Now it works again, and Mies, you got that story wrong. Not made a rude gesture to a Norwegian border guard, Afra bite the Norwegian border guard, of course. He needed immediate medical care and his trousers fall precariously. That is why Afra was sitting in the jail. Now that was a good idea! Why not make SagaciousPhil an admin? I support the idea. She has goodwill and patience of a saint. What happened with those pictures? What does Yngvadottir and SagaciousPhil knows that I don't? ! Hafspajen (talk) 20:54, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

A box of Chocolates! For Dr Mies and for everybody who tried to save us, poor blocked people. Hafspajen (talk) 20:54, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

You've got mail!

Malke 2010 (talk) 19:44, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

• Dont know how to set up my iPhone for email, sorry. Later. And don't you know it's nap time? Liam and I are "watching" Ajax-Celtic. Drmies (talk) 21:06, 6 November 2013 (UTC)