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Result of Appeal to BASC

Per your discussions with the Ban Appeals SubCommittee, you have been unblocked under the following conditions:

  1. Iantresman is topic banned indefinitely from editing any articles or its associated talk pages related to fringe science and physics-related subjects, broadly defined.

Any violations on the above-mentioned restrictions will be enforced through a series of escalating blocks (e.g. 1 day, 1 week, 1 month, a return to your banned state). You may appeal the above topic-bans in six months' time, subject to your conduct and contributions in due course.

For the Arbitration Committee, Mailer Diablo 11:28, 18 September 2011 (UTC)



Arbitration motion regarding Iantresman

By a vote of 7-4, the Arbitration Committee has passed the following motion:

The topic ban placed against Iantresman (talk · contribs) as a condition of unblocking in is hereby lifted. In its place, Iantresman is subject to a standard 1RR restriction (no more than one revert per article per 24-hour period) on all articles covering fringe science- and physics-related topics, broadly construed, for six months. This restriction may be enforced by escalating blocks up to and including one month in length, and up to and including indefinite length after the fifth such block. When each block is lifted or expires, the six-month period shall reset. Additionally, the original topic ban shall be reinstated if Iantresman is subjected to an indefinite block as a result of this restriction. The Arbitration Committee should be notified of this situation should it occur.

For the Arbitration Committee, --Lord Roem (talk) 21:07, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Arbitration enforcement

There is a case at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement that concerns you. IRWolfie- (talk) 19:50, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

A request for clarification has been filed

And you have been mentioned as an involved party. Please review the request and consider assisting to clarify the matter before the committee. Thank you, My76Strat (talk) 06:14, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Topic ban

For reasons stated in this AE thread, and under the authority of WP:ARBPS#Discretionary sanctions, you are hereby banned from all articles, discussions and other content related to plasma physics and astrophysics, broadly construed across all namespaces. You may appeal this ban at WP:AE or to the arbitration committee at WP:A/R/CA. T. Canens (talk) 06:45, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Error in quadratic root file

Hi... I believe you uploaded the file showing the roots of a quadratic equation. Unfortunately, you have missed the minus sign in the numerator that should precede the b. Perhaps you might upload a corrected version? Thanks. 121.216.157.82 (talk) 14:25, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Well spotted. While I have corrected the error, I have recently been" banned from all articles, discussions and other content related to plasma physics and astrophysics, broadly construed across all namespaces". Since algebra is used in physics, I am unable to upload it as it would contravene my ban. --Iantresman (talk) 14:51, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
Greetings Iantresman. I noticed this comment on my watchlist. If you are willing to email the corrected file to me, I'll accomplish the upload on your behalf. Additionally, it occurs to me that it may be possible to relax your ban to allow a mentor the leverage to authorize non-controversial edits that could otherwise be "broadly construed a violation" provided the request and authorization are threaded on your talk page in advance of the edit in question. Would you accept a mentor arrangement, if it could be arranged? My76Strat (talk) 15:54, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
That's very kind you. In principle a mentor would be great. On the other hand, I'm not allowed to evade a ban by allowing someone else to do my edits. But with the express permission of the Arbitration committee, and/or someone with the authority to do so, no problem. --Iantresman (talk) 17:23, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
In my personal opinion, Ian could add something about quadratic equations with no risk that it would be considered to be violating his topic ban from plasma physics and astrophysics. EdJohnston (talk) 17:29, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
Normally I would agree, but there are too many examples of editors concluding the exactly opposite of what the evidence shows. I thought there was no risk in discussing an academic text book on a talk page, but editors said I was pushing fringe theories into an article, that I have not edited since 2006. I was topic banned. The textbook concerned specifically states "cosmological issues are not discussed here" (preface, page v), yet editors have decided that although they can not provide a single quote or reference to say otherwise, that they know better, and they believe that the book is about cosmology. --Iantresman (talk) 18:45, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
It's not a violation of your topic ban to update the image. T. Canens (talk) 19:00, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
Acknowledged. Corrected. --Iantresman (talk) 20:19, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for correcting the image. I was unaware of any problem with any ArbCom problem with making the correction, so I apologise if my request was a difficulty for you. I was only concerned for the accuracy of the encyclopedia given the image's use in an article. Regards, 121.216.157.82 at 22:02, 12 November 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.167.48.111 (talk)

No problem. Accuracy of the encyclopedia is vital. --Iantresman (talk) 22:32, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Arbitration motion

This is a courtesy notice to inform you that a motion has been proposed and is being voted on by the Arbitration Committee, which would affect you. For the Arbitration Committee --Alexandr Dmitri (talk) 19:23, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Motion regarding Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Pseudoscience and related cases

By a vote of 8-0 in response to a request for clarification, the Arbitration Committee has passed the following motion:

Remedy 13 of the Pseudoscience Case is modified to read "Standard discretionary sanctions are authorised for all articles relating to pseudoscience and fringe science, broadly interpreted. Any uninvolved administrator may levy restrictions as an arbitration enforcement action on users editing in this topic area, after an initial warning."

Existing discretionary sanction remedies that this motion will deprecate may be stricken through and marked as redundant in the usual manner. Enforcement should now be sought under Pseudoscience, rather than under previous decisions concerning sub-topics of pseudoscience, but previous or existing sanctions or enforcement actions are not affected by this motion.

For the Arbitration Committee, NW (Talk) 22:46, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Discuss this

Image review comments

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Permission has now been acquired, and is listed on the image page. --Iantresman (talk) 15:12, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

GA on Hold for Lobster

GA on Hold for Lobster, please see link above. — Cirt (talk) 10:52, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

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Sorted. --Iantresman (talk) 09:48, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

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Talk:Lobster (magazine)/GA1

Can you please revisit and give an update here? — Cirt (talk) 04:21, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

The Original Barnstar
Thanks for all the work you did, to get Cerne Abbas Giant to good article status. Ykraps (talk) 17:41, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

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Good sir, I apologize!

Thanks for the good work on the sheldrake page. I accidently deleted a few comments in TALK because I edited out of an older window which automatically deleted all the posts since, and I believe one or two of them were yours. I am going to give this a scour tmrw but if you see one of yours not there please let me know. The Tumbleman (talk) 07:28, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Don't edit other peoples comments

Sheldrake Talk

It could be very helpful, IMHO, if you could post some sort of opinion (ANY opinion) HERE. The Sheldrake talk page is short of people who express opinions politely and helpfully. Anything at all from such a person could serve as an example to others. Lou Sander (talk) 02:11, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Information icon There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The discussion is about the topic Lou Sander's notice to you. Thank you.-- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 09:18, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

the section is Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Lou_Sander -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 09:22, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for your sensible offer of the slight change needed for this page:) Veryscarymary (talk) 18:37, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

--Iantresman (talk) 19:45, 10 November 2013 (UTC)===Barney objections===

Barney objections

Ian, might it be suggested that violating the terms of your unblocking in editing "fringe science articles, broadly construed", or have I missed something subsequent to that which overturns the overturn of the previous ban? Barney the barney barney (talk) 16:14, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

I think you have missed something, and are at least the third editor to hold the Sword of Damocles above my head. I am quite disappointed that you would bring this up, but it is consistent with Sheldrake's comments on the BBC World Service radio program "World Update" (1 Nov 2013), that some editors seek to have other editors banned. This is really a very shitty way of collaborating. --Iantresman (talk) 17:05, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
Of course I don't want to get you banned Ian, I fear it always leaves a bitter taste in one's mouth. I think we've done the Sheldrake shuffle on the talk page to death now, but you do seem to raise the same old creative interpretations of sources.
But you can see it does rather put me in a difficult position. Do I report this to, say Mailer diablo (talk · contribs) who unblocked you with that complaint? I'd regret having to do that. But what really has changed since 2011? How do you think you can contribute positively now, when you couldn't back then? Barney the barney barney (talk) 22:52, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
"I don't want to get you banned .. Do I report this .. I'd regret having to do that". This kind of approach to collaborative editing that disgusts me. I haven't edited the article in over 20 months, am doing what an editor is supposed to do: discuss, and even that is unacceptable to you. I will just point out that (1) All the edits I have made to the article are still present, how have your edits faired? (2) I am not the only editor who has expressed their concern, yet you have singled me out. (3) You've offered not one diff in support of your position. You do what you have to do. --Iantresman (talk) 10:03, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
Ian, I appreciate very much your explanation that you think this is different now because you're being careful not to edit the article. However, we really do have genuine issues to discuss on the talk page. Extremely creative interpretations of sources, including but not limited to (paraphrasing) "Sir John Maddox FRS isn't a good source because he doesn't have a PhD", "Biologists don't have to follow the scientific method", "The research programme into morphic resonance is just like the one into dark matter", "The generalisation that almost the whole of the scientific community rejects Sheldrake's ideas isn't true just because you can only name about a dozen or so who have negatively commented on him" is essentially disingenuous subterfuge. The problem with this approach is that it pointlessly wastes a large amount of time as we get on the WP:ROUNDABOUT of explaining to you how over and over and over again the basics of how science works, and how Misplaced Pages works because WP:IDONTHEARYOU. I humbly submit to you it would be better for you to allow other people to discuss without any inane interruptions.
PS - I will give you the courtesy of answering your question, despite the fact that you haven't answered mine: I have introduced many sources into the article, including a few that are broadly supportive or non-critical. I have spent a good time paying attention to the article which in the words of Wolpert "it clearly does not deserve". I don't mind people copyediting stuff that I've added. Barney the barney barney (talk) 12:10, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
I will answer your question tomorrow, as I am off out now, suffice to say that I utter reject your distorted paraphrasing, which is why diffs are the proper way to refer to criticism. --Iantresman (talk) 12:18, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
Again with the threats of banning folks from the Sheldrake page? Come on, Barney the barney barney, you're an experienced enough editor to know that this is not the way WP is supposed to run. Anyone can find a WP:JUSTIFICATION to legitimize muzzling dissent, but at it's root that's diminishing the marketplace of ideas that WP is supposed to embody. Banning is last resort with someone who's deliberately and maliciously disruptive, not simply making arguments that you find frustrating. You've done a lot of good work and I respect you, barney, but veiled threats of getting someone banned if they irritate you is bad form. The Cap'n (talk) 16:09, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
Misplaced Pages absolutely does NOT claim to be "marketplace of ideas". Have you even looked at WP:OR / WP:NOT??? It is an encyclopedia where a wide variety of volunteer editors attempt to represent the mainstream academic views of the subjects. And people who cannot work towards that goal can and are banned from interfering with people who are attempting to reach that goal. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 16:38, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
@TRPoD, yes we most definitely include the scientific point of view (SPOV), but this is NOT the neutral point of view, a writing style that neutrally describes the SPOV, and other significant views. Previous attempts to make the NPOV equivalent to the SPOV in scientific articles has failed (see WP:SPOV). ie. we work toward the NPOV not the SPOV. --Iantresman (talk) 19:45, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
while we can mention things like "there is a significant base of looneys that believe that the US Government is responsible for 9/11 and an even larger group of misinformed Americans who believe that Iraq was responsible " we DO NOT represent their views as having validity. We present the mainstream academic views. In the case of Sheldrake, the OVERWHELMING academic views range from he is talking nonsense to his nonsense is harmful to the way people view actual science. Any other views within the academic community are vanishingly small. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 19:59, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
Of course we do not present any view with having more validity, credulity, veracity, support, or whatever, with the proper sources. That doesn't stop us from describing them neutrally per NPOV. That includes excluding weasel words like overwhelmingly which probably means different things to different people, and might make us inadvertently draw misleading conclusions. --Iantresman (talk) 20:08, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
show me there is any significant percentage of the mainstream academic community that views him otherwise. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 21:35, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
Incorrect use of WP:BURDEN, TRPoD ... Iantresman and VeryScaryMary have supplied plenty of Reliable Sources (cf WP:V and WP:RS which *define* WP:NPOV). If you want to elide their sources, you have to show, on a source-by-source basis, that per WP:FRINGE guidelines, #1, the utterance in question is *claiming* to be science rather than spiritual or philosophical, and #2, that the source in which the utterance was published is *not* really Reliable (meaning specifically either Fact-Checked-Editorially or Peer-Reviewed-Academically ... no truth-value is relevant for wikipedia unfortunately). One person in one reliable source one time called one of the guy's ideas pseudo... therefore, his PhD is gone, his fellowships are gone, ten years of science are gone, everything he ever did or will do is bad. 74.192.84.101 (talk) 01:21, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
No, per WP:REDFLAG it is the person making the extraordinary claim that there is any support for magical nonsense in the academic mainstream who would need to provide such proof. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 13:10, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
This is not the place to discuss Sheldrake's article. --Iantresman (talk) 19:36, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

@Barney, following my Appeal to BASC resulting in my "topic banned indefinitely from editing any articles or its associated talk pages related to fringe science and physics-related subjects, broadly defined" (first grey box above) there followed an "Amendment request" (22 March 2012 - 21 May 2012. See "See also" immediately following the grey box above), that results in an "Arbitration motion regarding iantresman" (second grey box above) in which " The topic ban placed against Iantresman as a condition of unblocking in is hereby lifted".--Iantresman (talk) 19:46, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

TheRedPenOfDoom (talk · contribs) is correct, we need more sources that support Sheldrake, but I'm really struggling to find them. It looks like the best we can do is Brian Josephson (who defends him but doesn't specifically endorse him), Brian Inglis (a journalist), and Lorna Marsden a Quaker philosopher. At least I'm working on it rather than whinging about it.Barney the barney barney (talk) 11:02, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
Sorry about this stupid mess, Iantresman; as you may have gathered, you and I prolly disagree about the validity of morphogenetics in particular, and morphic fields more broadly... but you are dead on correct that the article on Sheldrake is a WP:BLP that is full of extremely non-neutral stuff. That is really bad for wikipedia, which is why David is there, and why I am there, and why you are there. You can join my WP:NICE cabal, if you like, any time. :-)     Barney is welcome to join as well, of course, if he'll just do what pillar four demands. Please alert folks on the talkpage if you get the WP:9STEPS treatment, trying to drive you away as a means to win some piddly content-dispute; folks like 76 and myself cannot have watchlists, so that's the only way we can know such things are afoot.
    p.s. If the article were once again split into a morphogenetics page, and a BLP page, that would solve plenty of complaining, would it not? Hard to see how separating a man's mainstream academic career, and his personal religion, both of which belong on a BLP page, from his controversial theories, which are *surely* Notable enough to merit their own page, is all *that* difficult. p.p.s. Anyways, I hope you stay around the talkpage, and keep on keeping your cool, but if you need to take a breather from unduly-caused WikiStress, then do what you gotta do, and come back when your gumption is restored, and you can hold the moral high ground with pride once more. No matter what, sooner or later, mainspace will be NPOV again. WP:DEADLINE Hope this helps, thanks for improving wikipedia. 74.192.84.101 (talk) 01:21, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
I would support a split only if it can be shown that individuals other than Sheldrake have been working on morphic resonance with reasonable independence from Sheldrake. Until then, MR is simply not notable enough for its own page. Mentions in Doctor Who don't count. Barney the barney barney (talk) 11:02, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Meanwhile, excusing 74's bizarre verbiosity, I thank Iantresman (talk · contribs) for his clarification regarding the terms of his unbanning. I am curious though as to what makes you think that you now have the competence to edit fringe pages, when previously people seemed to believe that you didn't? Barney the barney barney (talk) 11:02, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Your comment comes across as a little condescending: I wouldn't ask you about your competence to assess my answer, and I hope you would feel taken aback if I did. You are assuming that there are competence issues.
  • My 2011 "Result of Appeal to BASC" took place in private. It neither accountable nor transparent, so only BASC know the reason for the restrictions. This followed my 2007 Community ban which is equally vague.
  • It claims I am "a general POV-warrior of all sorts of pseudoscience and fringe science repeatedly POV pushing" but no diffs are provided.
  • It claims I "repeatedly harassed User:ScienceApologist who eventually left the project over a variety of issues, including Ian's behavior" which is nonsense, as he states his reason for leaving at the time. which says nothing about being harassed, or anything about me specifically
  • It claims I am "now repeating the exact same thing with a relatively new user User:Mainstream astronomy", which is also nonsense, as this user was (a) not a new user (b) did not leave the project (c) turned out to be ScienceApologist using multiple sockpuppet that editors found to be used abusively.
  • Ironically the Community Ban Noticeboard was itself subsequently banned, partly because it found the process of my banning to be "One amazing example five hours and eleven minutes rather unfair to a longtime user",
To summarise, no diffs supporting claims, an editor using socks abusively, and a flawed process that was subsequently banned, and you're asking me about competence? --Iantresman (talk) 19:34, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
I'm glad this issue seems to be dying down, but I'm still a little concerned about what provoked it. You said you've been threatened with banning by several other editors, Iantresman, and I've seen more comments like that associated with the Sheldrake page than I've seen in years. I'm not suggesting this skeptic guerrilla organization I've seen referenced, but something's got people militant on that article. Thoughts?
And yes, TRPoD, I've read what WP is about. Perhaps marketplace was a poor choice of words, but WP is supposed to foster equal collaboration from diverse perspectives to come to a balanced, neutral POV. Whatever terminology one uses to describe this, I think we all agree that threatening minority contributions is not conducive to that goal. The Cap'n (talk) 09:29, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
"threatening" minority viewpoint holders for being minority viewpoint holders is obviously not conductive.
Neither is it conductive for editors to have to deal with WP:IDIDNOTHEARTHAT behavior, which when continued does result in blocks or bans. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 15:51, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
Editors have heard, as is clear by the fact that they respond, and give a rationale as to why they might disagree. Disagreement is not the same as not hearing. --Iantresman (talk) 19:26, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

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  • <ref>"http://collections-search.bfi.org.uk/web/Details/ChoiceFilmWorks/150022778 Choral Cameos]",BFI | Film & TV Database, retrieved 13 Nov 2013.</ref>

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Warning

Information icon There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Consensus by exhaustion at Rupert Sheldrake. 

The Arbitration Committee has permitted administrators to impose discretionary sanctions (information on which is at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions) on any editor who is active on pages broadly related to pseudoscience and fringe science. Discretionary sanctions can be used against an editor who repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, satisfy any standard of behavior, or follow any normal editorial process. If you inappropriately edit pages relating to this topic, you may be placed under sanctions, which can include blocks, a revert limitation, or an article ban. The Committee's full decision can be read at the "Final decision" section of the decision page.

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This is a warning: Please note that your contributions are disruptive and if they continue on the Rupert Sheldrake page you will face blocking or banning. Please note that talk pages count as editing. Thank you.

134.139.22.141 (talk)

This is ridiculous. Anyone who participates on this article's Talk Page is getting these warnings. Don't let it intimidate you. Any editor can post a warning but only an Admin can enforce sanctions if they are deemed warranted. Liz 23:17, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for the heads up. I've already commented on their talk page. --Iantresman (talk) 23:23, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
I agree Liz (talk · contribs) - I too think this warning was not probably not necessary. Iantresman (talk · contribs) should be very familiar with WP:ARB/PS as it was he who brought the issue to the attention of the arbcom in the first place, and in a spectacular case of WP:BOOMERANG, as "a chronic promoter of pro-pseudoscience bias in articles, Iantresman has consistently disrupted pseudoscience article talk pages dismissing WP:NPOV, and has a history of tendentious and disruptive arguments at Misplaced Pages talk:Neutral point of view, where he's sought to weaken Misplaced Pages:Neutral_point_of_view/FAQ#Pseudoscience and Misplaced Pages:Neutral_point_of_view#Undue_weight to favor his bias", he managed to get himself topic banned. Iantresman (talk · contribs) should be intimately familiar with WP:ARB/PS. Barney the barney barney (talk) 11:12, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
  • More misrepresentation, incivility and nonsense. When I originally requested the case on 2 Oct 2006, I called the case "Pseudoscience vs Pseudoskepticism", and questioned whether there was a level of "Pseudoskepticism". The request was approved around 6 Oct (4/0/0) But when the case was opened in 12 Oct, it was no longer about "Pseudoskepticism" the term being removed from the case, and focus was only on "pseudoscience". I didn't shoot myself in the foot, I had my gun taken away from me and given to the other editors. Hardly fair.
  • Please don't quote other editors unsubstantiated accusations (ie. "a chronic promoter of pro-pseudoscience"). There was a good reason that the editor concerned provided not one diff in support of this. If you check the "Finding of Fact", you will see there was no evidence of "pushing pseudoscience", although there was a bizarre criticism of my "orientation" based on hearsay.
  • If you are going to criticise my editing, do the decent thing and provide some diffs, otherwise your comments could be misconstrued as personal attacks. --Iantresman (talk) 12:26, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

Plasma-Redshift Cosmology

Hello, given your previous history I felt you may be interested in observing and providing assistance with the new wikipedia entry for Plasma-Redshift Cosmology. Orrerysky (talk) 16:49, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the notification, unfortunately my current topic ban precludes by participation. --Iantresman (talk) 21:23, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
That's a very commendable position for you to take. Barney the barney barney (talk) 22:59, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

Arbitration Request Notification

You are involved in a recently filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests#Persistent Bullying of Rupert Sheldrake Editors and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. Additionally, the following resources may be of use—

Thanks, — Preceding unsigned comment added by Askahrc (talk • contribs) 19:58, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

ArbCom ?'s

I'm reading your ?'s you posted ... you're aware that they've essentially already all been answered in the previous questions, right? ES&L 11:11, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

Sheldrake

Information icon This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.

Candidate question

I've just answered your question. Sorry about the slight delay in doing so, I've had an unexpectedly busy weekend.  Roger Davies 17:42, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

ACE questions

I apologize for the delay in answering your Arbitration Committee Election questions; I didn't have enough time over Thanksgiving break to sit down and catch up on my questions and immediately upon returning to school I had to prepare for a meteorology exam. I am planning to sit down and do my catching up today and you can expect answers to your questions by 6:00 UTC December 4. Thank you for your patience, and again my apologies for any inconvenience this delay has caused. Ks0stm 17:36, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Request for arbitration rejected

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For the Arbitration Committee, Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 01:53, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

December 2013

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Your AE question

Hi, in response to your question at AE, I'm just trying to remove the submissions that are all about content and not about conduct so as to keep the thread to a manageable size. We, the administrators processing the request, simply don't care (and more importantly aren't allowed to care) whether that guy is the world's greatest charlatan or Galileo Galilei reborn. We only care about whether anybody has violated any of Misplaced Pages's conduct rules and needs to be prevented from doing it again. By making content arguments in your statement, you are only wasting your time, and everybody else's. I suggest that you stop contributing to the thread if you have no useful evidence of misconduct to contribute.  Sandstein  17:33, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I just thought that if conduct is based on content, then the latter will determine whether an editor's conduct is appropriate or not. But I take your point. --Iantresman (talk) 18:05, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
There are a few cases where writing really questionable content can violate core content policies like WP:V or WP:NPOV in their aspect as conduct policies (in that all editors are explicitly required to follow them), and in such cases content problems can become conduct problems and subject to discretionary sanctions. But these are normally cases of very evident and persistent POV-pushing. In cases such as this one, where there is a legitimate content dispute (how to describe the nature and recognition of the work of the person at issue), administrators will normally scrupulously avoid making any determination about the content, because (a) administrators aren't allowed to use their tools to decide content disputes, and (b) they simply don't know nearly enough about the intricacies of the subject matter to have an informed opinion about it, and don't have the time and inclination to read the huge number of sources that may be relevant.  Sandstein  21:49, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

third category, for direct-COI editors

Hello Iantresman, I was pretty hard on you in my post.  :-)   Sorry about that; I do like you, even when we disagree. But what I would like to point out, is that you are letting Barney's us-fringe-fighters-the-only-true-wikipedians-versus-the-rest color your prose. "If any editor feels I have misrepresented them here, I will happily strike their name. --Iantresman"

You are putting Tumbleman into the same group as me, David, yourself, et al. That is not correct; Tumbleman was socking, and they in the real-o-verse have at least a personal relationship (some off-wiki sources say more) with Sheldrake. Same goes for Craig Weiland. They are COI-encumbered editors where Sheldrake is concerned, just the same as the young college kid who came here to write a BLP article about her sorority-sister that was in some indie film (a flop by all accounts) a couple years ago.

So I would ask that you remove Tumbleman from the "consensus-builder" group (not my favorite name but whatever), and add Tumbleman to a new third group (called "direct-COI editors" methinks... or something gentler if you prefer). They do not belong where they are, because they were not here to build consensus; see my post-disaster-analysis of their true motives, elsewhere. Usually I would let your judgment stand, but as Tumbleman cannot request themselves to be removed due to socking stuff, and I don't want the rest of us lumped in the same bucket, I figured it wouldn't hurt to suggest it to you. WP:REQUIRED applies, of course; it has been there awhile, and though I don't want it that way in the page-archives, please do what you think is best.

Anyhoo, thanks for keeping your cool in distressing circumstances. I'm not doing as well as I'd like.  :-)   So I have abandoned the Sheldrake fiasco, except in small infrequent doses. But, that said, I'll go edit some glacier articles, or something like that, and then keep coming back until we get it fixed. Hope this helps, thanks for improving wikipedia.

p.s. Others that were around when I started, but left... don't know if they have requested you strike them of if they just were errors of omission... would include Tento2 and Dingo1729 plus prolly VeryScaryMary (though she was a bit too excitable for "consensus-building" to apply). Dan skeptic and IrWolfie and MilesMoney (plus maybe Johnuniq?) used to be active amongst the fringe-fighters... and truth be told, I would actually be tempted to include wolfie in the consensus-building camp, for the Sheldrake article... because despite their zeal to 9STEPS anybody they disagreed with elsewhere, wolfie actually seemed reasonably calm to me in the sheldrake context (as opposed to *other* contexts). But nobody likes to get drug into an AE, so I would vote leaving Tento and Dingo and Mary and Wolfie off your list unless they ask... I purposely did not 'ping' them, so they can keep their own counsel. HTH, see you around. 74.192.84.101 (talk) 19:49, 18 December 2013 (UTC)