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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by The Devil's Advocate (talk | contribs) at 07:54, 14 January 2014 (→Comment by The Devil's Advocate). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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See also: Logged AE sanctions

Important informationShortcuts WP:AE WP:ARE Please use this page only to: request administrative action against editors violating a remedy (not merely a principle) or an injunction in an Arbitration Committee decision, or a contentious topic restriction imposed by an administrator, request contentious topic restrictions against previously alerted editors who engage in misconduct in a topic area designated as a contentious topic, request page restrictions (e.g. revert restrictions) on pages that are being disrupted in topic areas designated as contentious topics, or appeal arbitration enforcement actions (including contentious topic restrictions) to uninvolved administrators. For all other problems, including content disagreements or the enforcement of community-imposed sanctions, please use the other fora described in the dispute resolution process. To appeal Arbitration Committee decisions, please use the clarification and amendment noticeboard. 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GHcool

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning GHcool

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

IRISZOOM (talk) 00:06, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

GHcool (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:ARBPIA#General 1RR restriction

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

GHCool broke the 1RR and though that he has been blocked several times in this topic, he keeps doing the same thing.

1. 04:26, 6 January 2014 "anachronism"
2. 20:44, 6 January 2014 "Arabs ... see talk page"

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:GHcool&diff=407079517&oldid=407076933

1. Warned on 15:45, 10 January 2011 by EdJohnston (talk · contribs) 24 hours block
2. Warned on 06:12, 24 January 2011 by HJ Mitchell (talk · contribs) This was first a 55 hours block and then changed to two months and lifted after one month
3. Warned on 19:57, 18 June 2013 by EdJohnston (talk · contribs) Topic banned from the Israeli/Palestinian conflict for six months

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Before GHCool's second edit, he brought up the topic at the talk page (Talk:History of the Arab–Israeli conflict#"Palestinian Arabs" vs. simply "Arabs"). In spite of that, he goes and makes his second revert, which also was in violation of the 1RR, before we had an discussion. Now we have a discussion and he keeps on imposing his views (589668403 and 589669072). While I am writing this, I see that he has written that he will make another change that he thinks is right (589681953) and now he has done it (589682109). Obviously the talk pages are meant for discussion but unfortunately, for me it seems that he is more interested in imposing his views.

I also want to add while that GHCool didn't press "undo", it's still a revert. --IRISZOOM (talk) 00:06, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

• https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:GHcool&diff=589685149&oldid=588394141
• https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:GHcool&diff=prev&oldid=589686667

Discussion concerning GHcool

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by GHcool

I apologize for the 1RR violation. I admit my error and I apologize for it. I gotta stop doing that. I got in trouble before for it, but I get excited and do it again anyway. I really do need to make a better effort at it and will check myself in the future. I'll accept any sentence I receive, but I really think a very light sentence is in order for this one. The infraction is so minor and this isn't exactly the edit war of the century.

On IRISZOOM's other point, I thought I was just being bold by imposing the changes. The issue we're discussing isn't very controversial at all. I thought it was one of those things that we can just do and it would eventually be acceptable to both of us. Its a very minor difference of opinion. I would have kept to the talk page if I had thought that IRISZOOM felt this strongly about this matter. --GHcool (talk) 00:54, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Like Socrates, I will not evade my sentence, no matter what it is. However, unlike Socrates, I will ask my judges to disregard the suggestion of an indefinite 0RR restriction. Heimstern Läufer correctly recognizes that this goes above and beyond law enforcement on Misplaced Pages amounts to censoring an editor. Reverting is one of the most basic tools of Misplaced Pages. To disqualify someone from reverting is akin to disqualifying someone from using the talk pages or disqualifying someone from citing a source. It will effectively turn a temporary ban into an indefinite ban. --GHcool (talk) 03:54, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Statement by IRISZOOM

June 2013 is not two years ago. --IRISZOOM (talk) 13:52, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Result concerning GHcool

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

• Given the previous blocks were two years ago they are pretty immaterial to imposing anything more than a block. Given their statement my feeling is that any block would now be punitive. I think the best course of action is a logged warning in this case. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 06:14, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Missed the topic ban, see below. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 04:20, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

• Agreed, with the caveat that if this does happen again, there will be no excuse for the behavior. Try harder to not get "excited" when working in contentious areas. SirFozzie (talk) 19:28, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
• What IRISZOOM brought up wasn't a block, but it was indeed a 6-month topic ban. Because it's another violation of the same behavior less than 1 month after the editor has came off the ban, a more significant remedy is necessary. I suggest a 1-year topic ban and/or 0RR restriction on topic. - Penwhale | 04:10, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Thanks for the link IRISZOOM, given that GHcool has already has had his chance I would be in favour of a 1 year topic ban as well as an indefinite 0RR restriction on all pages relating to this topic. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 04:18, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
    • I don't like 0RR in general, but I wouldn't stand in the way of it. In terms of the topic ban, I agree that 1 year is necessary given that GHcool just got off a six-month ban about a month ago. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 09:31, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

• For the record, I alerted SirFozzie to the existence of TBAN; however, he hasn't edited in two and a half days. I consider his point above not well-argued (since what he originally supported was erroneous), and thus: if no other comments arise within 24 hours, I will enact a 1-year topic ban. - Penwhale | 07:55, 11 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Agree with this. Fozzie seems simply not to have noticed a critical fact in the case, as Callanecc also did not at first. I think it's OK to move on without him. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 00:49, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

• A one year topic ban would seem to be the correct course of action in this situation. --Guerillero | My Talk 20:46, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
• It sounds right to issue a one year topic ban, but I'd rather not be the one to close because I issued the previous ban. It is common to fight over the definition of Palestinian people, and we have to find a way to discourage that. EdJohnston (talk) 01:11, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Darkness Shines

Urgent01/Flau98bert

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Urgent01/Flau98bert

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

My very best wishes (talk) 18:13, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Urgent01 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) aka Flau98bert (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Pseudoscience#Discretionary_sanctions

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. After receiving this block, the user continued edit warring in the same article, covered by "pseudoscience", up to December 2013 , (removal of the same paragraph on the bottom). However, this is now stale and probably would not be a reason for enforcement per se.
2. December 21 "This article isn't the place for non-mainstream anti-Einstein advocates to present their views." Who he means, exactly? Apparently he means me, based on diffs below. According to all sources (including book "Non-postulated relativity" discussed at this article talk page), Ives misinterpreted his own experimental results as contradicting Special Relativity Theory. This brings biography of Ives under discretionary sanctions covered by the "Pseudoscience and Fringe science" case.
3. January 5 - "I think if someone wants to promote the beliefs ... they should propose a separate article about him". This and other comments (below) indicate that Urgent01 knows about my personal connection to author of the book (yes, there is connection, and it can be easily established by anyone, because my account was outed), and he is trying to intimidate and discredit me personally to "win" a content dispute.
4. January 5 "This is your pet idea...it does not make sense to claim that Ives was correct by citing a crackpot book". No, according to the "crackpot" book and my edit, Ives was incorrect
5. January 9 - "There have also been efforts in the past to create articles about ... in Misplaced Pages." (1st phrase) - implying COI editing on my part. No, I never made a single attempt to create articles about this person or this book. In this diff, he brings back my question dated 2006, when I just started editing and had no idea about rules and practices around here.
6. January 9 - "I know this is disappointing for you to hear, but it is the truth. Read and learn." (in the end)
7. January 10 - "you are striving to promote ... in the book you are trying to promote". This user repeatedly claims that I am trying to promote the book. No, I did not, because I included references to the book in only one article, a long time ago to source consensus by other uninvolved editors at this article talk page . I also tried to use it in another article ("special relativity") 7 years ago, however a consensus was reached that the reference should not be included in this article, and this is something I never disputed later.
8. December 21, January 3, January 5, January 5, January 5. Edit warring in article Herbert_E._Ives, just as in diffs #1.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

1. Warned on January 5 by My very best wishes (talk · contribs) - his response (edit summary), my clarification, his response (edit summary)
2. A previous warning by admins and discussion about edit warring in this subject area

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

In essence, this user continue doing the same and worse in the area of pseudoscience, despite the previous warning by admins . Note that diffs 3,4 and 8 on January 5 are edits made after my warning. This user is an SPA, with few edits made from at least two accounts (the 2nd one is User:Flau98bert). He is an activist with agenda to fight pseudoscience or something he perceives as "pseudoscience". He is not a newbie, he knows what he is doing ,, .

I wanted to avoid this AE request, in a hope that the Urgent01 would understand policies and improve , however he responded by making further insults (diffs # 5, 6 and 7).

The book and other sources, which are currently discussed, may be used somewhere or not; this is all merely a content dispute.

@Sandstein. Speaking about your last comment, this is something I strongly disagree about. You can not unilaterally declare a source "fringe" (I am speaking about Russian book), not translation to English and use this as a reason for sanction, without discussion on WP:RS or other appropriate noticeboards. Is it really "fringe"? Of course, not. There are lots of mainstream books published in Russian (or other languages), whose authors were not widely cited in English literature. That does not make any of the sources "fringe" or prohibited for use per WP:RS, but only sources with low or zero citation index, for whatever reason. As a matter of fact, one can find a lot of publications in Institute for Scientific Information database with zero citation index. That does not make any of them "fringe" or inappropriate for use in wikipedia.

Thank you, Sandstein, for discussing this matter with me . I think this is simply a misunderstanding . And yes, I take very close to the heart what you and EdJohnston are telling here; I will try to improve and do my best to always follow all WP policies. My very best wishes (talk) 21:48, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

There is no way to consider this book "fringe". It has 33,000 hits in Russian internet. More important, most claims by this book are not even novel. And here I would like to quote my "content opponent", Urgent01 . He tells: "There is absolutely nothing in Lomize's "From High School Physics to Relativity" that is not already thoroughly discussed in countless more reputable and verifiable references." I do not necessarily agree. That is what he thinks. According to him, this is simply another book on the subject, and there are many hundred books on SRT. So, it comes at no surprise that a self-published English translation of a book, which is well known in Russia, did not bring much attention. A non-notable book? Yes, maybe. A fringe? No. My very best wishes (talk) 00:17, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

@EdJohnston.

1. Speaking about the source, this is merely an English translation (with a few modification) of Russian edition, which does qualify as RS in my opinion, as I already explained here. It was reviewed and supported by Vitaly Ginzburg and other physicists from Lebedev Physical Institute and printed in 70,000 copies by major publishing house "Prosveshenie" ("Enligntment")ru:Просвещение (издательство). Speaking about author, he had at least 100+ publications (I do not remember exactly), however Google scholar is not an appropriate method to identify publications by people who worked long time ago in countries like the Soviet Union. Institute for Scientific Information database (also a poor method) retrieves some his publications from 1960-1980s. To my knowledge, he worked in a secret Soviet scientific institution, with highly restricted publishing. But this is not the place to asses sources.
2. Speaking about my alleged COI, my approach here is to simply follow Misplaced Pages:Five pillars. That is, I treat this book (for example) exactly as any other RS I read and liked as something interesting and informative. One could make a much stronger case that I "promoted" "Black book of communism" around here. I do not see this a "COI editing" on my part. Yes, I may have a bias, however this is merely a result of my knowledge/understanding of the subject, just as for everything in Chemistry, Biology or History. This is the reason I never had a trouble editing subjects, which are directly related to my work (unlike SRT) - I treated all sources equally per WP:NPOV.
3. Now, speaking more directly about WP:COI, it tells: when advancing outside interests is more important to an editor than advancing the aims of Misplaced Pages, that editor stands in a conflict of interest.. Yes, exactly. Let me tell this for a record: I am not advancing any outside interests at all (other than interests of Misplaced Pages readers), while editing anything related to Physics and SRT. And as long as I do not have any conflict of interest in this area, I am as "regular" editor as everyone else. I do apologize for a few reverts I made in article "Ives" (first of them was per WP:BRD cycle). On the other hand, I could easily make a point that someone who actually teaches SRT, has a COI if they are trying to make WP content more conforming with their lectures. But I did not, because doing so would be confrontational. Another side did.
4. Why there is a dispute here? This is simply because the teaching and interpretation of SRT (all effects and equations are exactly the same) is still a matter of debate. This is simply a typical situation when someone with a very strong POV (Urgent01) resorts to personal accusations because they do not have better arguments on the subject. Hence I submitted this request.

--- Conclusion. After looking at the comments by admins here, I would like to withdraw this request, if possible. There is no theory by Lev about Ives, and there are no any theories by Lev at all. This Russian book (and all my links/references were made to the Russian book) is merely a secondary source that quotes other sources, as was admitted even by Urgent01. I believe there is no reasonable justification for sanctions against me right now, as I explained on the talk page of Sandstein. This is an unnecessary and extremely offensive sanction for me on personal level. Please do not force me to leave the project. Yes, I got your message. I will do my best to avoid the trouble in the future. Trust me. I am taking a wikibreak enforced by a block for a couple of months. Chances are I will not be back. My very best wishes (talk) 12:05, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

P.S. @EdJohnston. The Russian book by Lev is absolutely "mainstream" because it describes an approach to teaching SRT, which is not even new, as was noted even by my "opponent" Urgent01 . He tells: "There is absolutely nothing in Lomize's "From High School Physics to Relativity" that is not already thoroughly discussed in countless more reputable and verifiable references."

@EdJohnston. More specifically, with regard to time dilation and Ives, Urgent01 said : J.S.Bell's 1976 paper on "How to Teach Relativity", in which he clearly explains how relativistic phenomena (including length contraction and time dilation) can be described as a consequence of the (Lorentz invariant) laws of physics expressed in terms of a single reference frame... This is not new." Yes, he is right; this also has been described in multiple sources before Lev (this is simply not a new theory by Lev). Something to be expected from mainstream Russian book written for students.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Urgent01

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Urgent01

Statement by NE Ent

Formally topic banning mvbw for picking the wrong noticeboard is overkill. Reviewing the article talk page it's almost all mvbw and urgent01 (with a little Dvdm). They came here asking for help, so help them. (e.g. Please consider WP:DRN or WP:RS/N before filing an AE request). He got the message, just close request as "no action." NE Ent 00:18, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Urgent01

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

I have been hoping this would settle out without need for admin intervention, but my first impression is a boomerang... Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 00:38, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

I seem to have started to come down with a cold since posting the above, and am getting grumpy; the opinion above represents what I thought about this several days ago, and is not affected by this, but I would prefer other admins review and comment for the immediate future. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 02:50, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

I don't see how all this even relates to pseudoscience or fringe science, which is what sanctions are authorized for. Judging by the article, Herbert E. Ives (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) was a genuine scientist, even though he may have been mistaken in his ideas about relativity. The article hasn't ever been categorized as pseudoscience, nor does it seem to have contained any text describing Ives's ideas as such. Per Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Pseudoscience#Alternative theoretical formulations, "alternative theoretical formulations which have a following within the scientific community are not pseudoscience, but part of the scientific process", even if they turn out to be wrong. I would decline this request as out of scope. "Ordinary" edit-warring can be addressed via WP:AN3.  Sandstein  08:34, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Per Sandstein's comment it's unclear whether WP:ARBPS can be used to regulate editor behavior on Herbert E. Ives. However I do have concerns about the behavior of User:My very best wishes. He is trying to add references to and material from a work of Lev Lomize to the Ives article.

• The full text of the book, Non-Postulated Relativity by Lev Lomize, is available free online at http://www.nonpostulatedrelativity.com. The title page of the book gives the publisher as ‘Clue’, in Ann Arbor Michigan, but Misplaced Pages has no article on a publisher of that name and Google returns nothing. My scrutiny of the copyright page of the book suggested to me that the book was self-published.

• The cautions expressed in WP:Verifiability#Self-published sources suggest that Lomize’s book may not normally be used in our articles, unless perhaps in an article about Lomize himself.

• Google Scholar finds no conventionally published work by Lev Lomize on relativity, let alone work which is cited by others.

• User:My very best wishes admits above that he has a personal connection to the author of the book. Under the WP:COI guideline he should avoid editing the article directly to add Lomize's work. Certainly he should not engage in edit wars with regular editors.

It's my impression that a WP:BOOMERANG awaits for User:My very best wishes if he continues to pursue this issue at noticeboards. EdJohnston (talk) 15:30, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

I agree with this analysis. According to Lev Lomize's website, his self-published book claims to contain "an explanation of Special Relativity without using Einstein's postulates, but only classical physics." Considering that the work of Albert Einstein is a cornerstone of modern physics, and that Lev Lomize's work seems to have had zero impact on scientific discourse (no Misplaced Pages article, self-published book, nothing on Google, no peer-reviewed publicationsaccording to his own website), it is apparent that his work must be classified as "fringe science, broadly interpreted" as described in WP:ARBPS#Discretionary sanctions. That his work may have been more professionally published in (Soviet?) Russia does not change this assessment of the impact of Lomize's work as it relates to international mainstream physics. The edits by My very best wishes are therefore covered by discretionary sanctions.

I agree with EdJohnston that the inclusion of citations from Lomize's work in any article except one about Lomize violates WP:V, particularly in light of WP:ARBPS#Appropriate sources: "in the case of a scientific theory, there is a clear expectation that the sources for the theory itself are reputable textbooks or peer-reviewed journals". By edit-warring to reinsert unreliable sources into an article (, , etc.), My very best wishes has violated the policies WP:V and WP:EW.

Unless there are objections from other administrators, I intend to topic-ban My very best wishes from everything related to Lev Lomize.  Sandstein  16:11, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

I agree with Sandstein's recommendation of a topic ban of User:My very best wishes from everything related to Lev Lomize. This sanction appears justified after rereading WP:FRINGE for the definition of fringe science as well as the remedy section of the WP:ARBPS case: " Standard discretionary sanctions are authorised for all articles relating to pseudoscience and fringe science, broadly interpreted." WP:FRINGE also provides that, when marginal and mainstream ideas are considered together, "reliable sources must be cited that affirm the relationship of the marginal idea to the mainstream idea in a serious and substantial manner". There are no reliable sources in English to affirm the relationship of Lomize's theory about Herbert E. Ives' time dilation results to the mainstream account of the same results. Self-published material about an alternative theory does not belong in the Ives article at all. EdJohnston (talk) 05:53, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Kaj Taj Mahal

Appeal by Alfonzo Green

Appealing user

Alfonzo Green (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction being appealed

Topic-banned from Rupert Sheldrake, broadly construed, imposed at

Editor who imposed or found consensus to impose the sanction

Zad68 (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) / Zad68 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Notification of that editor

I am aware of this request Zad68 01:00, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Alfonzo Green

I was edit banned from the topic of Rupert Sheldrake for inserting the word "biologist" in the lead sentence. I took this action because the majority of secondary sources refer to Sheldrake as a biologist, though some use the term "scientist" and others use the term "biochemist." In keeping with WP:V, I cited four sources, all from the New York Times, describing Sheldrake as a biologist. My edit was reverted by Roxy the dog here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Rupert_Sheldrake&diff=next&oldid=587139696

Note that Roxy claimed to be reverting a "POV edit," implying that edits in accord with secondary sources are POV.

Another editor, Tom Butler, undid Roxy's blatantly POV edit and requested that Roxy explain his actions on the talk page.

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Rupert_Sheldrake&diff=next&oldid=587139696

Yet another editor, Barney the barney barney undid Butler's edit with the claim that "Roxy explained per talk."

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Rupert_Sheldrake&diff=next&oldid=587249006

Barney was referencing the following comment from Roxy on the talk page (under "biologist title"): "Sheldrake no longer does science, hasn't done science for more than twenty years, probably thirty, and shows no signs of putting his ideas up for scientific scrutiny. --Roxy the dog (resonate) 19:31, 22 December 2013 (UTC)"

Roxy's statement is contradicted by the Sheldrake article itself, which includes discussions of a collaboration with neuroscientist Steven Rose to test the hypothesis of morphic resonance as well as the effort of psychologist Richard Wiseman to replicate another experiment conducted by Sheldrake. But that's not the point. We're not here to argue the facts. We're here to report the claims of reliable secondary sources. Roxy has an agenda, and his agenda is at odds with the vast majority of those sources.

In his reversion of Butler's edit, Barney also stated that Roxy's action was consistent with "facts and WP:Fringe." Again, the facts we must report are those found in the source material, not the ones we privately promote as factual. As to the fringe charge, only one source describes Sheldrake as a "pseudoscientist" as opposed to dozens of others that describe him as a scientist of one form of another. Clearly Barney and Roxy are promoting the fringe view.

For this reason I reverted Barney's edit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Rupert_Sheldrake&diff=next&oldid=587269669

Roxy then "corrected" my edit by inserting the "former" in front of "biologist."

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Rupert_Sheldrake&diff=next&oldid=587399860

Once again Roxy was guilty of WP:OR. That Sheldrake is a "former biologist" is not supported by the source material. Not a single source describes him this way. This is Roxy's opinion.

I made no further edits to the article. Prior to reverting Barney's edit, I introduced a new topic to the talk page, "Reality and Wikipediality," in which I argued that our job is not to promote our opinion of reality but to stick with Misplaced Pages policies, in particular that all material be sourced and that well sourced material not be removed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Rupert_Sheldrake/Archive_18

At this point an administrator, JzG or Guy, stepped in and warned me that the discussion was over and my "POV" lost. He closed my topic from viewing and launched the above-referenced complaint against me.

In his complaint he stats, "This is not about the content that Alfonzo Green advocates ,though this is clearly not compliant with policy and consensus regarding fringe and pseudoscientific topics. It is about his insistence on, and refusal to be dissuaded from, rehashing closed debates." JzG's claim about content is false. The point of my edit was to bring the opening sentence into compliance with Misplaced Pages policy. As long as the Sheldrake biography is out of compliance, editors must restore it and, if necessary, explain on the talk page why a new edit does so.

It's significant that JzG brought his complaint not because of edit warring but because I discussed my edit on the talk page. His objective was to silence me, to prevent me from expressing the inconvenient fact that Sheldrake is nearly always identified as a biologist. Like Roxy and Barney, JzG is pushing a POV and doesn't want to be reminded of this fact.

Five administrators commented on the complaint. Georgewilliamherbert claimed I could be dismissed under the same criteria that a previous editor, Barleybannocks, was banned. NW agreed. Needless to say, Barleybannocks was banned for pursuing discussion of why the Sheldrake article failed to reflect source material. First a coterie of anti-Sheldrake editors systematically revert any edits that restore NPOV to the article. Then when we try to discuss the issue we are banned for "rehashing closed debates."

Tznkai took a different approach. He claimed I was guilty of edit warring, which he defined (elsewhere) as "any short circuiting or depreciation of discussion by using article edits to override the contributions of others." My own edit was reverted twice and illegitimately modified a third time. So how am I guilty of edit warring but not Roxy and Barney? And of course my edit was supported by source material. Roxy and Barney were removing sourced material. I initiated a discussion on the talk page, and JzG tried to short circuit discussion by closing the topic. That he advocates banning me instead of them makes no sense.

Georgewilliamherbert chimed in again to state, "We have an arbcom case that clearly bears on the article. We have editors flouting the arbcom base decision." The arbcom case in question concerns pseudoscience (https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Pseudoscience). However, nowhere in this decision is there any explanation of why morphic resonance is pseudoscience. Is it obvious pseudoscience, generally considered pseudoscience, questionable science or simply an alternative theoretical formulation? Arbcom doesn't say. We have a list of topics considered pseudoscience (https://en.wikipedia.org/List_of_topics_characterized_as_pseudoscience), but there's no talk page discussion concerning why morphic resonance is included on that list. "Arb" seems to stand for arbitrary rather than arbitration.

According to MastCell, "We're talking about a single-purpose account who has racked up multiple blocks for edit-warring in service of his agenda." In fact I've contributed to several articles, so I cannot be considered a single-purpose account. (See WP: SPATG). Any blocks I've received resulted from conflicts with editors pursuing an agenda in violation of Misplaced Pages policy. But that's neither here nor there. MastCell fails to address the issue at hand. Have I committed an action, here and now, that warrants topic ban? MastCell makes no comment. Same goes for Sandstein. He invokes no actual infractions before deciding I should be banned. This is especially odd because in a previous complaint, filed against me by Mangoe, Sandstein made it clear that I could not be banned without specific violation of policy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive141#Alfonzo_Green

What happened between that decision and this one? Mangoe's complaint was obviously frivolous, and Sandstein ruled correctly. Why the flip flop in the face of an equally frivolous complaint now?

In short, not a single legitimate reason was given for my topic ban. Please lift it immediately. Alfonzo Green (talk) 23:52, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Mangoe, according to WP:SPATG, "the timeline of a user’s edits should not be considered when using single-purpose account tags. One must look at the editor’s complete edit history, not just recent edits." This applies to users "with a diversified edit history that become inactive for an extended period and later re-establish themselves with single subject edits." The SPA tag is clearly inapplicable and cannot form the basis of legitimate sanctions. The comment that yielded a two-day block was not a complaint but simply a request for information regarding the arbcom decision that allegedly classified morphic resonance as pseudoscience. Rather than admit that no such decision ever took place, Sandstein silenced me.

Sandstein, aside from the fact that I don't qualify as an SPA, if you think I'm in violation of WP:NPOV, please provide an example of where I've attempted to express an opinion at odds with reliable secondary sources. Specifically, how does citing Sheldrake as a biologist, in accord with the overwhelming majority of sources, constitute POV-pushing?

Barney the barney barney, my edit history with the Sheldrake article demonstrates a commitment to neutral presentation of source material, emphasizing the preponderance of sources over a few fringe voices, so as to impart the mainstream view of his work. Per WP:NOTNOTHERE, focusing on a niche area, in my case the natural sciences, doesn't mean I'm not here to help build the encyclopedia.

Right now the Sheldrake article is slanted against Sheldrake, which reflects poorly on Misplaced Pages. Even if my ban is upheld, other editors will eventually seek to rectify the imbalance. The Sheldrake dispute cannot be resolved as long as administration favors biased editors over responsible editors. Alfonzo Green (talk) 21:09, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Since I've neglected it up to now, let's have a look at the ruling issued by Zad68. "I see unanimous agreement between Georgewilliamherbert, NuclearWarfare, Tznkai, MastCell and Sandstein that, after due warnings and previous attempts by administrators to get Alfonzo to stop disruptive editing behavior (see block log), Alfonzo has persisted in engaging in disruptive edit-warring behavior. In Alfonzo's statement here, I don't see any indication that the tendentious edit-warring behavior will stop; in fact all I see is a justification for it. I also see in this edit by Alfonzo that he is invoking WP:Ignore all rules as justification for breaking the rules against edit-warring at this article."

Unanimous agreement sounds impressive until you consider the fact that it was based entirely on misinformation provided by JzG. Discussion "trailed off," as Zad notes, after I issued my statement overturning JzG's claims. As to the block log, this is relevant only in establishing precedent for current misbehavior. Since no misbehavior was identified in this case, the log is irrelevant. However, because Zad zeroes in on a comment I made in regard to the 11 December report, I'll briefly discuss that one, which concerns an edit in violation of 1RR. The main source of contention was a reference to limited academic support for Sheldrake's work, along with three citations from reliable sources. By blocking this material (in yet another blatant POV act), anti-Sheldrake editors succeeded in keeping the article slanted at the expense of Misplaced Pages credibility. Zad claims I invoked WP:Ignore all rules to justify edit warring. Quite the contrary. I invoked it for exactly the reason stated in the policy: to restore integrity to the encyclopedia.

According to MastCell, the "indefinite topic ban is appropriate under the existing discretionary sanctions." Yet no authorization seems to exist for discretionary sanctions in this case, as I realized after Sandstein hit me with a two-day block for daring to inquire where morphic resonance appears in the arbcom pseudoscience decision. Not only the ruling itself but the justification for the ruling has no basis in fact. Alfonzo Green (talk) 02:41, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

MastCell is at it again, telling us the Sheldrake biography is under "Arbitration Committee case enforcement." Really? And who decided that? Where does the Committee specify that Sheldrake's work constitutes pseudoscience? Would it be "obvious" or only "generally considered" pseudoscience? Not a word! There's a pseudoscience ruling but no Sheldrake ruling, just a vague sense that, "oh, well, it must apply here." Unless it's included in the committee report, no, it doesn't. And no wonder the report doesn't include that finding, since the whole basis of conflict on the Sheldrake page is the effort of certain editors to censor widely available reliable sources that treat morphic resonance as science and Sheldrake as a scientist.

At last Zad68 has laid out his cards. He already knew I couldn't win because this isn't really an appeal in the first place.

By definition an appeal is heard by parties uninvolved in the action that triggered it. Already Sandstein has contributed three statements under the heading "uninvolved administrators," and MastCell has gone ahead and announced his opinion there. Apparently this is okay because he only "weighed in" during the original case. The implication is that Zad alone, since he issued the actual ruling, is ineligible to rule in this case. Even though they based their opinion on nonexistent evidence of wrongdoing and justified sanction according to a nonexistent committee ruling, any of the four administrators who "weighed in" during the initial case are free to rule on this one.

Moreover, a true appeal implies the possibility that no actual wrongdoing took place. If the "appeal" can't even be heard until penitence has been amply demonstrated by the disgraced sinner, clearly there's no assumption of innocence. Nor is there any guarantee the "appeal" will be heard by editors who aren't already knee deep in this swamp and looking for a quick exit. To launch an earnest appeal in these conditions is therefore "a particularly bad waste of time."

Zad doesn't seem to understand the point of all this. Like I said in the original case, this isn't about me or even Sheldrake. This is about the integrity of Misplaced Pages. Can the general public trust Misplaced Pages to correct obvious corruption when it surfaces? Is there a way to ensure that policies are enforced on any given article, or is the administrative process a means by which biased editors can remove responsible editors from targeted subjects?

Right now it looks real bad for Misplaced Pages. To say that Sheldrake is a biologist is akin to saying the earth is round. I might as well have been banned from the arithmetic page for claiming that 2 + 2 = 4. And Misplaced Pages can't correct this? Really? Oh, but of course not, because Misplaced Pages has no appeal process, only a pretend process where you're assumed guilty from the outset and the same people who misruled before are free to do so again.

It's a funhouse. The most commonly utilized source of information in the world is a funhouse. Is anyone else bothered by this?

The moral of this story is that the general quality of Misplaced Pages can be expected to decline just like the Sheldrake biography, a stable and unbiased article until it was hijacked. If you're not going to stop the intimidation and the purging and the whitewashing in this case, why would you intervene on behalf of integrity anywhere else in the encyclopedia?

Misplaced Pages needs to prove it's on the side of reason and not hysteria. This is a test. Can you withstand the pressure of a gang of braying ideologues and see what's right in front of you? Can you take a breath, look at the facts and reason through this? What kind of an encyclopedia operates on the basis of peer pressure instead of reason?

Diderot awaits your decision. Alfonzo Green (talk) 04:40, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Zad68

• I fully expect this appeal to be declined without any need for comment from me. If for any reason the granting of this appeal is being considered please notify me on my User Talk, otherwise I don't plan to participate. Zad68 01:02, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

To expand why I feel this appeal is basically a frivolous waste of time, please see: Misplaced Pages:Arbitration_Committee/Procedures#Appeals_of_topic_bans. Specifically:

An editor who is indefinitely topic-banned or otherwise restricted from editing in a topic area under an Arbitration Committee decision may request an amendment to lift or modify the restriction after an appropriate time period has elapsed. A reasonable minimum time period for such a request will ordinarily be six months, unless the decision provides for a different time or the Committee subsequently determines otherwise. In considering such a request, the Committee will give significant weight to, among other factors, whether the editor in question has established an ability to edit collaboratively and in accordance with Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines in other topic-areas of the project.

As the filing of appeal is Alfonzo's very first edit after the topic ban and subsequent block less than three weeks ago, there's no basis for this appeal to be granted. Re-hashing the exact same arguments that were presented at the original AE discussion as if the original AE discussion didn't close with a clear consensus of five admins (and only one admin is needed anyway!) is a particularly bad waste of time. Zad68 20:02, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Comments by others about the appeal by Alfonzo Green

Comment by Mangoe

AG has edited no article since his topic ban, and his only other two edits were to object to two admins involved as to his topic ban, one of which got him blocked for two days. I repeat my analysis from the AE case that his only edits not related to Sheldrake are a very few four-year-old edits. I interpret his case here as being a promise to pick up where he left off, and I note that editing on the article has proceeded at a less frenetic pace and with no edit-warring. I would not see his return to the topic as a gain for Misplaced Pages. Mangoe (talk) 03:06, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

hopefully last comment: The discussion thus far is retreading the original case, which is ironic considering that User:Jzg's original complaint was precisely that AG was never going to let a bad argument go: "There is no obvious merit in an editor who has clearly been watching the article and debates, as Alfonzo Green unquestionably has, rehashing a debate that is so very unlikely to result in a consensus to change the article." So here we go around again, repeating all the same old claims. I see no need to say more. Mangoe (talk) 01:47, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Comment by iantresman

I am still dismayed at the absence of accountability concerning the topic banning of Alfonzo Green for the reasons I gave in his WP:AE, and further concerned that Admins generally ignored my request for relevant diffs. To summarise:

1. Alfonzo Green is not single purpose account, having edited at least EIGHT other articles (qv). I would ask admins to (a) read (b) strike through their comments as the allegation is contradicted by the evidence. That Admins continue to perpetuate this inaccuracy is troubling.
2. In my comments during the WP:AE, I showed that the allegations made against Alfonzo Green, (A) regarding his edits, ie. that there is "consensus against inclusion", is not supported by diffs. (B) "The character of debate, being characterise by obdurate refusal to accept that Sheldrake's ideas", is also not supported by any diffs.
3. Finally, I requested diffs supporting the allegation that Alfonzo Green engaged in "disruptive editing behavior", as no relevant diffs were provided, or subsequently forthcoming on request.

I would ask Admins to read WP:ADMINACCT "Administrators are expected to respond promptly and civilly to queries about their Misplaced Pages-related conduct and administrator actions and to justify them when needed."--Iantresman (talk) 17:57, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

@Sandstein You appear to have left a comment in the section headed "to be edited only by uninvolved administrators". --Iantresman (talk) 18:01, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

@Barney WP:SPATG says that Alfonzo Green is not a single purpose account (I have already provided evidence that contracts your claim), and WP:ASPERSIONS requires that you provide evidence (eg. diffs) to support your accusations of misbehavior by him. --Iantresman (talk) 20:58, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

@A Quest For Knowledge. There is no doubt that Alfonzo Green has recently focused on one article, but his overall history shows that he has edited at least 8 different article, therefore he is not a single purpose account (SPA) per WP:SPATG. Even if he was an SPA, this in itself is not an issue, and is not grounds for banning. If an SPA is the main allegation against Alfonzo Green, then the rest of the case must be exceedingly weak, as evidenced by the extreme lack of diffs as evidence of misbehavior. --Iantresman (talk) 09:06, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

@Sandstein Thank you for your comments regarding WP:UNINVOLVED, but I have to disagree with some of the content on common sense grounds. While it may be proper for an uninvolved Admin to take part in several WP:AE cases against the same editor, an appeal is a wholly different matter, where the Admins themselves are also being scrutinised for accountability in the original case. It is like asking the police to investigate themselves, where there is an apparent conflict of interest. --Iantresman (talk) 12:08, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

@TRPoD Well done on providing diffs supporting your statements, it is far more than most editors and admins. While I agree that they are related to Sheldrake, I disagree that this makes Alfonzo Green a single purpose account. By extension, this would make any editor that stuck to "science" or "history" an SPA. I respect that editors will draw the line in different places. More importantly, as I have mentioned before, even if Alfonzo Green was an SPA, there is not Misplaced Pages policy preventing it. The one thing missing are diffs which demonstrate that Alfonzo Green is behaving inappropriately compared to his fellow editors. --Iantresman (talk) 23:52, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Comment by The Devil's Advocate

Sandstein, you should not be commenting in the section for uninvolved administrators as you were explicitly advocating for the topic ban during the previous case.--The Devil's Advocate _{tlk. cntrb.} 18:15, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

MastCell, you should not be commenting as an uninvolved admin either. All this does is create an appearance that the fix is in on the sanction and lessens faith in the process.--The Devil's Advocate _{tlk. cntrb.} 23:32, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Generally, admins are not considered "involved" by virtue of having placed (or supported) a previous administrative sanction against an editor. That should be clear both from standard practice and from written policy. Moreover, sanction appeals at AE are often reviewed by admins who took part in the initial sanction discussion. To my knowledge, that's never been an exclusion criterion, nor would it be a reasonable one. That said, I noted in my initial comment below that I participated in the initial sanction discussion and supported the sanction, in the interest of transparency. And like Sandstein, I'm not in a hurry to close this appeal and I'm happy to wait for whatever additional administrative input will be forthcoming. MastCell  00:56, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

You are completely wrong on ethical and policy grounds. Generally, admins are considered involved when their administrative actions are being appealed in an independent venue and that is exactly what is occurring here. I fail to see the basis in an admin saying "I am imposing a sanction per the reasoning of admins x, y, and z" and us still considering admins x, y, and z, to be uninvolved with regards to any appeal of the sanction. There is something inherently corrupt and indicative of an old boys network when you have one admin "take the WP:INVOLVED hit" and let the other admins who backed his play continue providing the "admin of record" their "uninvolved" support at appeals. You are not uninvolved. You have a clear stake in the sanction being upheld. That is what it means to be involved.--The Devil's Advocate _{tlk. cntrb.} 07:54, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Comment by Barney the barney barney (talk) 19:10, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

I think admins should go back and review the original reasons why - it's in Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive143. The idea that Alfonzo Green (talk · contribs) is not an SPA is just plainly false. This sounds remarkably like a defence lawyer who is arguing an appeal on an entirely spurious basis. To ask for diffs as Iantresman (talk · contribs) does is entirely disingenuous - firstly there is special:contributions/Alfonzo Green and the original request (see my first sentence) explained why he is an SPA. To pretend that no evidence was submitted is classic WP:IDONTHEARTHAT. There is little point in resubmitting the evidence when it can be re-examined at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive143. Finally, to quote Mastcell (talk · contribs) on Barleybannocks (talk · contribs) (but equally applicable to Alfonzo Green (talk · contribs)) "he's also being encouraged to some extent by people who are particularly poor role models for how to edit responsibly on fringe topics, which isn't doing him any favors". These poor role models are still trying to defend him. It's clear that Alfonzo Green (talk · contribs) is a WP:SPA who is anti-WP:NPOV, anti-WP:FRINGE anti-WP:MAINSTREAM and therefore anti-Misplaced Pages per WP:NOTHERE. The only commendable thing here is that unlike Tumbleman (talk · contribs) he hasn't started socking. Barney the barney barney (talk) 19:10, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

One point by uninvolved A Quest for Knowledge

I find that that claim that Alfonzo Green isn't an SPA is not merely wrong, but bordering on absurdity given the overwhelming evidence that this editor focuses on a single topic. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 00:06, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Comment by Tom Butler

Let me understand this issue of single purpose account. Anyone can edit Misplaced Pages, but they cannot edit just one article. Further, if the editor does not agree with the interpretation of rules posed by the majority and most aggressive editors, then her will be banned from that article. is that about right?

Consensus building in the Sheldrake article has been a matter of one side trying to find balance while the other stonewalls with one view ... no negation. The rules are important and certainly applicable here, but there are reasonable ways to apply them and hard-nosed ways preferred by some of the editors. What I am reading here is that the admins agree with the hard-nosed approach.

Alfonzo Green has done everything imaginable to find middle ground in the article. He is a diligent editor whom I think adds value. Since you all have banned him and the other moderate editors from the article, it has drifted more and more into the skeptical bias trying to make Sheldrake and his work appear to be stupid. I will say again, if that is official Misplaced Pages policy, then the article needs to be deleted!

You are poisoning the water by banning editors on one side of the discussion rather than trying to arbitrate a better article. Every banned editor becomes another pushing back from outside of Misplaced Pages.

Please stop a moment and consider the alternative ways to balance the article within Misplaced Pages rules rather than the hard-nosed approach you seem to be taking now. Tom Butler (talk) 18:40, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Okay, so now I am being threatened by Georgewilliamherbert with "Due to ongoing single purpose advocacy of pseudoscience topics and editors, you are hereby notified that this topic area is under an Arbitration Committee case enforcement. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 19:07, 13 January 2014 (UTC)"

Every frontier subject associated with things paranormal is cast as pseudoscience by the controlling skeptical editors. Therefore, this warning is telling me that my "single purpose advocacy," which is potentially all articles associated with the paranormal, is forbidden. That is the extreme of what has happened with Barleybannocks and Alfonzo Green. Tom Butler (talk) 21:52, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Side note by Georgewilliamherbert

A notification under the Pseudoscience case is not a topic ban or editor sanction such as a block or ban or revert restriction. It places the editor on notice that the topic area is under discretionary sanctions, and that some aspect of their behavior requires notification (and logging) of the case findings, those sanctions, and the topic area's sensitivity.

Tom Butler's activity is for all intents and purposes single-purpose, in this topic area, and shows an active disbelief or disputation of the Pseudoscience case findings' and relevant policy etc. That said, no edit or edits or pattern of edits I have seen go beyond "requiring notification" into "warning or threatening sanctions".

Advocacy that an Arbcom finding or enforcement activities are wrong, should be different, or should be changed is not actionable. It should be taken up with Arbcom in a new case or a motion, rather than here, but nobody will be sanctioned merely for stating opinions that they disagree with AE activity.

Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 22:48, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Comment by TheRedPenOfDoom

As is always the case, one should always look closely at the content presented by iantresman.

If we look at those EIGHT "not Rupert Sheldrake articles" that AG has edited as presented by iantresman that purport to show AG is NOT an SPA,

• The article is Creode, but AG is adding content about Sheldrake
• The article is Lewis_Wolpert, but AG is adding content about a bet between Wolpert and Sheldrake
• the article is Scientific_wager, but AG is adding content about the scientific wager between Wolpert and Sheldrake
• the article is Genetic_determinism, but the content AG is adding is about a scientific wager about genetic determinism, involving, you guessed it, our friend Sheldrake
• the article is Michael_Shermer where AG is adding content that was reverted for being "PoV pseudoscience apologetics" that attempts to discredit Shermer, who is a major critic of and quoted extensively in Rupert Sheldrake (AG's earlier edits to the article include adding external links to a page that Criticizes Shermer in relation to a debate the had with Sheldrake

That leaves the non-direct Sheldrake edits at:

• the article is Mae-Wan_Ho, but AG is editing content about the applicability of the law of thermodynamics to living critters, which is a key contention that Sheldrake makes
• - making a piped link (at William McDougall (psychologist) who, "rejects the materialistic" approach to science, just like Sheldrake

And the final piece of evidence from iantresman, - the article is Ilya Prigogine where AG enters commentary about a book about claims that scientific determinism is outdated. Alone, that would be a stretch to connect directly to Sheldrake, but given the rest of the evidence, it so close to the same vein that one would be hard pressed to say it is any way substantial evidence that AG is NOT an SPA. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 19:49, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Result of the appeal by Alfonzo Green

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

In the discussion that led up to the sanction being appealed, I expressed support for the sanction because Alfonzo Green is a single-purpose account dedicated only to promoting a particular point of view about his chosen topic. Such conduct violates WP:NPOV, see Misplaced Pages:ARBAB#Single purpose accounts. The appeal contains nothing that would change this assessment. In addition, there is no indication that the sanctioning administrator exceeded the broad discretion granted to administrators in WP:AC/DS, and we should not second-guess the exercise of this discretion on appeal without good cause. I would decline the appeal.  Sandstein  09:41, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Iantresman: I know. Per WP:UNINVOLVED, administrators' interactions with editors in a purely administrative capacity - which includes discussions about whether discretionary sanctions should be applied - do not constitute involvement.  Sandstein  18:10, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

It seems that what I said above is not quite clear to all who are commenting. I'll point the issue out for the arbitrators' consideration in ongoing rules review at Misplaced Pages talk:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions/2013 review. Meanwhile, I'll not be closing this request, so I'll leave it to the administrator who does close it to decide whether my opinion should be considered (if that turns out to be relevant to the outcome of the appeal).  Sandstein  19:35, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

• This appeal more or less restates, at great length, the arguments made during the first AE case. I see no evidence that Alfonzo Green has any insight into the ways in which his behavior was problematic, no indication that he has any interest in this project beyond using it as a single-issue battleground, and no reason to believe that the disruptive behavior which triggered the sanction will change. I would therefore recommend declining this appeal. (For clarity, I weighed in to support the initial topic ban as well). MastCell  22:38, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
• There seems to be some doubt as to whether ARBPSEUDO was serious and/or meant what it said. I believe closing with a note to the effect that it's real and we expect everyone to take it seriously... Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 06:36, 14 January 2014 (UTC)