Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Rschen7754 (talk | contribs) at 04:44, 15 January 2014 (→Request for clarification (January 2014): new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

→ Important notes for all contributors to this case This case is highly contentious, and has the ability to devolve very quickly. So, this is a heads up on the procedures we will be using. A) First off, we will be running under a "single warning" system. The clerks, myself and other arbitrators will be monitoring this case. Uncivil comments or accusations that are not backed up with explicit diffs will be removed on sight. Clerks have been given authority to remove such comments and give the commenter a single warning. If such issues happen again after a participant has been warned, the participant will either be barred from further participation in this arbitration case, or the person will be blocked for a period of time at the clerk's discretion. This applies to everyone. That includes the parties, involved onlookers, semi-involved onlookers, and people who wander in randomly (whether it is truly random or not). B) There will be NO speculations allowed. This includes the following: 1) No using the tactic "Well, person A said this somewhere else, and person B is also participates there, so they obviously agree with it." That falls under a finding that we have endorsed less then three months ago: In apparent violation of the "No Personal Attacks" policy, (user) has persistently dwelt on editors' affiliations and has seemingly used the "affiliations as an ad hominem means of dismissing or discrediting their views". (Extract from "What is considered to be a personal attack?") 2) No speculation of off-wiki lifestyle, behavior, orientation and/or private life will be allowed. We are not a gossip site, and making such comments during the case has no purpose. We are an encyclopedia, and our editors should be treated accordingly. If users here are violating that principle elsewhere, that information should be noted briefly, factually, and directly in evidence. 3) If your evidence is being posted against one or more editors, you must fully back up your comments with explicit diffs and/or links. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. As I've said above, unsupported attacks on other editors will be removed and warnings/sanctions will be issued. If you're not sure whether a statement will fall afoul of these policies, ask a clerk before hand. Don't think it's "better to ask for forgiveness then it is permission". It's not. These rules will apply on all case-related pages, which explicitly include talk pages. We will be using the just-ratified limits on evidence (to wit, 1000 words/100 diffs for direct parties, 500/50 for non-parties to this case). If you're going to exceed either, ask myself or another arbitrator (on the /Evidence talk page) before you do so. To prevent "drive-by" attacks and attempts to devolve this case, we are taking additional measures to limit disruption. The case pages will be semi-protected and there will be additional scrutiny paid to accounts who haven't participated in this dispute beforehand. In other words, don't expect to try to avoid scrutiny with an IP address or an alternate, undeclared account. It will be counterproductive. If a new editor or an IP editor truly has something that needs to be said, they can ask a clerk to post for them. Finally, after I take the first few days to review the initial evidence and workshop postings, I will be posting a series of questions on the workshop page that I would like the parties to answer. I am primarily interested in what the parties have to say in response. This should be aimed solely at answering my questions and not going back and forth with other people's answers. Thank you for your attention, and hopefully, your compliance with these directives. For the Committee, SirFozzie (talk) 19:55, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Non-party statements

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Statement by Themfromspace

This confrontation stems from Fae's controversial RFA and subsequent user RFC. Views at the RFC were divided over the legitamacy of Fae's adminship when it was alleged that heleft his previous account "under a cloud". Questions were raised about the scope of ArbCom's involvement in the RFA (Fae stated that it was sanctioned by ArbCom; John Vandenberg stated that Fae was mistaken and that only he endorsed the RFA). Compounding the difficulty of the situation are allegations of harrassment, outing, and tendentious editing. I think there have been more than enough attempts at dispute resolution, documented above by MBisanz, to warrant an in-depth look. The committee should accept the case to examine the procedure of Fae's original RFA and post-RFA behaviour, as well as general user conduct in the dispute resolution process. ThemFromSpace 23:40, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Statement by Moreschi

In my spare time I have delved into this a fair amount. It is fairly clear that had all the information been available at the time that the original RFA would not have passed, but then again the original RFA voters also knew that something was up and still passed it anyway. This was probably an error of judgment on their part, just as Fae and John V erred in judgment in not fully disclosing Fae's history, but errors in judgment do happen, and, well, it's hard to see how a mutual balls-up is cause for desysopping.

The broader issue seems to be that Fae feels persecuted by the WR crowd, who now seem to have migrated to Wikipediocracy (although Wikipediocracy does seem like a significant step up from WR). I can sympathise, as I've had Paul Wehage aka one half of User:Musikfabrik (see Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Jean-Thierry Boisseau) aka the fieryangel aka oscarlechien opening threads in these various places criticizing my every decision for 4 years, and calling me some rather nasty names in the bargain, almost regardless of whether what I was doing had any merit or not. It doesn't feel terribly pleasant, particularly when your fellow Wikipedians are apt to show a distinct lack of DefendEachOther. As a result, Fae seems to react extremely badly, causing large dramaboard threads where Fae and various Wikipediocracy posters (many of whom edit here in all good faith) snipe at each other. This is not helped by the ongoing controversy over the toxic culture and content at Commons, with which Fae seems to have become associated.

Now, it is my impression that although in quite a few of these dramaboard threads Fae is behaving quite badly, and too often resorts to a kind of catty tone that's both provoking, patronising, and not conducive to a collegial atmosphere, this does not really rise to the level of a desysopping, and I think that if ArbCom takes this case all they will do is succeed in giving Fae a slap on the wrists, which hardly seems worth the time and drama of a full case. IMHO the thing to do is pass a couple of open motions telling Fae to calm the bleep down and react much more coolly, and in a manner more befitting a sysop, to questions about his actions, even if he feels the questioners may not be acting in the best of good faith.

My own advice to Fae is this: 50 percent of what people say about you at WR et al is simply driven by hurt vanity: 40 percent is based on misinformation provided by those of the hurt vanity, and 10 percent (at best) might be fair criticism of some validity. If you can't filter out the white noise it's better not to read the threads at all, and just keep working quietly here without starting vast drama-filled BADSITES AN threads in which you then go make yourself look awful. Moreschi (talk) 00:10, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

@Cla68: I'd forgotten that, but yes, that is true and does put this up a level in the seriousness stakes. Too many people have been called homophobes for no particularly good reason. That said I do not think the scope of this case should be widened beyond Fae and his conduct.

@Casliber and Courcelles; there are of course a lot of problems with doing this by motion, but I can easily foresee a case becoming extremely ugly if the evidence and workshop are not strictly policed. My feeling is that this only 60 percent about Fae and is perhaps 30 percent BADSITES case No. 1,989,472.5 and 10 percent Enwiki vs Commons, Case No.1 <?>. Historically arbcom has not done well with cases that purport to be about one individual's conduct but are actually to do with - at least in part - sitewide cultural issues that the community itself is split on (i.e a number of the various Giano cases). I guess you probably do have to take this case, on reflection, as if not it will be back here in a couple of months, but I would give the clerks licence to kill on evidence/workshop stuff that goes offtopic (i.e doesn't really relate to Fae). Otherwise this could be quite teh dramafest. Moreschi (talk) 10:02, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Relaying a message from Fae

--Guerillero | My Talk 00:16, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Request from Cla68

If this case is accepted, could the scope please be set to include editors who made ad hominem and other personal attacks during the Fae RfC and in other forums in support of Fae? Some of the behavior from involved editors has really crossed the line, and I think should be examined. Cla68 (talk) 01:56, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Comment on Moreschi's comment: I think much of Moreschi's analysis is true and on target, with one key omission, and that is the ad hominem accusations or insinuations of homophobia that Fae and some of his supporters have lobbed at people who disagree with them. Accusing or insinuating that others are offering criticism or disagreement with you because they are motivated by some kind of prejudice or hatred (unless it can be backed-up with clear evidence) is unnacceptable. I'm sure that most of us have observed this occur in certain topic areas and would, perhaps, agree that there are few behaviors by Misplaced Pages participants that are more unhelpful, divisive, hurtful, dishonest and contrary to a spirit of congenial cooperation, collaboration, and compromise. Cla68 (talk) 04:16, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Comment by MZMcBride

I'll repeat what I wrote in the discussion following my attempted redirect of User:Ash to User:Fæ:

I don't necessarily have an issue with clean starts. There are certainly legitimate reasons one might need a clean start. But if it's truly a clean start and you've left your old account for being an asshat, it shouldn't be possible for others to figure out who your old account was or want to associate you with it. If it is possible or they do, it's almost certain you're still being an asshat. And that indicates that you need to either leave or start again. If you choose the latter, you have to change your behavior in the next reincarnation so that nobody is able to figure out who your former nasty self was and it's truly a clean start.

As true then as now. --MZMcBride (talk) 02:41, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Comment by Peter Cohen

I've noticed drama in a few places on wiki which might be more suited for the evidence page. However, the events on Jimbo's talk page leading up to this post should be worth delving into. I don't always agree with Jimbo but the opinion he expresses there tallies with the one I have independently formed of Fae's actions.--Peter cohen (talk) 04:17, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Roger, I think your question to Carbuncle is rather unfair. Fae has a history, particularly under his old ids, of extensively editing sex-related articles and uploaded some sex-related pictures to Commons and to Misplaced Pages articles. He has also voted on sex-related content on Commons using his Fae id. Fae has also made a number of comments of his own e.g. about his civil partnership but is also liable to complain about comments being made on Wiki by others. (See his explosion at Mbisanz that led to the previous case request.) Do you really think that Carbuncle can provide a full reply explaining his/her reasons to such a general question as you asked without exposing his/herself to an attack by Fae for violating his privacy on WP? It would be much better to get Fae to make specific allegations to which DC can then respond. We have already seen in this case request how such allegations (e.g. claiming that Mbisanz met with Eric and that DC has speculated about Fae's HIV-status) end up being untrue.--Peter cohen (talk) 15:28, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Comment by SB_Johnny

While Fae has always been quite civil and collegial when addressing me individually, he does seem to have a bad habit of assuming bad faith on the part of people who associate with people whom he feels have done him wrong (his initial response to this case is a very good and current example).

A minor thing that bothers me about Fae is his insistence that we as a community must forget what he did as "Ash", because I don't see anything wrong with owning up to personal growth, and simply acknowledging that your opinions have "evolved". The major thing that bothers me about Fae is that he's very quick to accuse people who disagree with him of having a homophobic agenda. The other major thing that bothers me about him is that he doesn't intervene when his "defenders" are clearly being unfair and inappropriate.

This all comes down to a question of "conduct becoming of an administrator"... admins should (at least in my idealistic view) try to keep drama to a minimum, because drama distracts from the mission (writing and improving an encyclopedia). Admins should not create dramas that distracts from the mission, full stop.

There is also a simmering and seething undercurrent involved here, because apparently more than a few people believe that there was something deceptive about Fae's RfA. That issue really needs to be addressed here, because (if I understand correctly) ArbCom was perceived to have endorsed the view that "what happened before was no biggie", but it's pretty clear now that the "no biggie" would have been a serious issue for some of the RfA voters. I realize that the comment in question was just a committee member voicing his own opinion of the matter, but perhaps in the future the members of the committee might resolve to discuss such issues privately, and not comment as individuals on such matters unless there is some consensus on the matter (or offer a "minority opinion" if a committee member feels strongly that they need to speak against the majority). I understand the committee's reluctance to expand the case, but I really do think that it should expand it in this direction.

As far as results go, I would like to urge the committee to force Fae to do a "redo" of his RfA, in the interests of putting that part of the issue behind us. FWIW, I would vote in his favor, because I absolutely trust him not to use the buttons inappropriately. Let's have closure and move on, please. --SB_Johnny | ✌ 20:36, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

After reading some of the comments below (including Fae's, but not just his), I hope that a "principle" of this case will make clear that "Assuming Good Faith" implies not attributing malicious intent to those who provide criticism. This should especially apply to accusing people of bigotry, because that's an extremely offensive thing to be accused of if you don't happen to be a bigot. --SB_Johnny | ✌ 22:10, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Comment by Anthonyhcole

Please only accept this case if you, the committee, are prepared to fiercely curate the case pages for relevance and civility. I see several issues:

1. Fæ dropped his earlier account name and claimed to be leaving the project in the middle of an RfC/U that looked likely to sanction him in the area of BLPs. ArbCom agreed to a clean start. In his subsequent RfA Fæ said he'd changed his name after an RfC/U and that he'd never been blocked or sanctioned under the earlier name. This implied, to the !voters at his RfA, that an RfC/U had found nothing sanctionable. There is some likelihood that he would not have passed RfA if !voters had known that he left in the middle of an RfC/U that was calling for sanctions.

   You may want to address Fæ's fitness to edit BLPs, which is still an open question.

   Perhaps ArbCom should have insisted he return and complete the RfC/U before agreeing to a clean start.

   The obvious right thing to do, given his (possibly inadvertent) misleading evidence at his RfA, would be for Fæ to ask the community to reconfirm his adminship. It is argued that the value he adds to the project as an admin is too great to jeopardise with a reconfirmation RfA. You'll have to decide this.

2. It is claimed that Fæ and his supporters have accused critics of homophobia. This is a serious charge and you should call for (a) evidence of accusations of homophobia, as well as (b) evidence supporting such accusations. If Misplaced Pages users can reliably be associated with homophobic comments those users should be site banned. If unfounded attributions of homophobia have been made, the record should be put straight, and those making such accusations should be sanctioned.

Anthonyhcole (talk) 02:29, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Comment by Lankiveil

I am of the school of thought that while obviously the diffs cited in this case are less than ideal, that Fae has done nothing wrong or actionable, and is being hounded far more than other editors who do exactly the same thing. With that said, I urge the ArbCom to take this case and resolve it quickly, which will hopefully lance the drama boil and clear the air sufficiently that everyone can get back to writing articles and creating content, rather than stirring up drama and being internet detectives. Lankiveil 11:24, 25 May 2012 (UTC).

Comment by Wnt

This proceeding is the outcome of a widespread political conflict in Misplaced Pages over whether "offensive" and especially sexual topics should be covered, which governs everything from what the Ash RfC was about to why many of these accusers have been calling for the destruction of Wikimedia Commons on Jimbo Wales' home page. Cla68 and Anthonyhcole have called for a narrow focus on Fae and those making accusations of homophobia. But a proper arbitration should examine both sides with equal scrutiny, including WP:Harassment#Off-wiki harassment itself, WP:OUTING of Fae based on WHOIS sleuthing, WP:CANVASSING of editors on off-wiki sites, even the violation of WP:Child protection by false allegations that Ash kept an image of a naked child on his page, a situation curiously occurring by the alteration of a Commons file a few days after that account ceased editing. I do not want it to be that Misplaced Pages editors' first consideration, even above Misplaced Pages policy, should be to think of how it will look for their name to be plastered all over the Internet next to a selection of anything embarrassing that can be extracted from their entire editing history by a few dozen editors dedicated to suppressing coverage of certain topics - nonetheless that is absolutely so, and it will continue to be the case unless ArbCom makes some wise and seemingly unexpected choices as this proceeding progresses. Wnt (talk) 15:25, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Response to Delicious Carbuncle

It may be that you are right - that you were not suggesting to discriminate against Fae for homosexuality or (assumed) risk of HIV, rather for a perceived interest in bondage. Does that make a difference? And I don't think that is how your original comment on WR would have been interpreted by a reader. In any case, you accused an editor of "sex in a public place" based entirely on a PG-rated photo showing one person in a closed room - because it was convenient to you to say that he put himself at "legal risk" to explain away your own comment - then played the victim of personal attacks because people interpreted your comment about how "risky behavior" makes someone unfit to hold Wikimedia office as being anti-gay! Wnt (talk) 16:26, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Statement by ReverendWayne

To me the important question is this: can an administrator ignore dispute resolution processes, or otherwise fail to answer community concerns, and still keep the bit? I think the answer ought to be no. Fæ offered no substantive response to the (admittedly messy) RFC. On his talk page, I raised a particular concern to give him an opportunity to address it outside the context of the RFC, but he chose not to reply. Admins must be accountable; that's policy. This is sufficient grounds for a desysop. ReverendWayne (talk) 20:58, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Statement by Collect

Inserting for reference my comment at the RFC/U:

The issues regarding the prior account, the RFC/U closing, and the new account then applying at RfA are real and substantial. Those indicating a concern have evinced no anti-gay, homophobic or other concerns here at all. This is not a "deletionist" vs. "inclusionist" debate at all, it is a discussion about whether Misplaced Pages procedures have been fully and properly complied with. Nor is this a venue to discuss abrogating WP:BLP or any other fundamental policy of Misplaced Pages. Collect (talk) 19:33, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

And my summary of the entire RFC/U at which I regard as accurate in all respects. Collect (talk) 14:25, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Statement by Rich Farmbrough

Should the committee decide to hear this case it is important that they remember the basic principles pertaining to the case which I have already spoken to them about.

Moreover, while action on Misplaced Pages is important, should the scope of the case tend far enough to include all the matters raised by the person bringing the case, then the action of other editors to act as a concert party, contrary to WP:CANVASS and WP:MEATPUPPET should be considered as necessary, just as it was in the Eastern Europe email list case.

Arbitrators should also take note that there has been no attempt at 3rd opinion, mediation or other DR per se. Rich Farmbrough, 22:48, 26 May 2012 (UTC).

Statement by Varnent

Having reviewed the above comments, and actually waiting for Fae to respond, my hope is that if Arbcom takes this, it's only to put an end to the harassment of Fae once and for all. Coming into this just recently as an observer, and not being caught up in all the emotion of the buildup, much of the stated history here (especially off-wiki - I know that is outside of "scope" - but hard not to take it into consideration here) comes off as either blatant homophobia or sexphobia - neither of which has any place in an encyclopedic setting or wiki community. The ongoing rants about changing identities seem both silly and bring up arguments already addressed repeatedly in the past and with other examples. The policies on enWP users ability to do this seem pretty clear and this does not strike me as a violation - even considering the timing of nominations, etc. The attacks on Fæ outside of enWP and in real life seem to be obvious examples of crossing the line from concerned Wikimedian to obsessed bully. If enWP truly wants to be a safe space for LGBT editors and for folks looking to be free of relentless bullies that only stop (maybe?) when you have been thrown out of a community they are eager to sabotage. As I've said before, I will concede that like most people involved in this incident, Fæ could benefit from taking a longer pause before replying to wikidramas and focusing on areas of greater need - like chapter development and Wikimedia outreach. However, as I've also said, I'm empathetic to the reality that it's hard to resist conversations that you're baited into entering and mentioned or attacked by name. Especially when it's so relentless, on and off wiki, and discriminatory in nature. While I do hope some users involved in this incident are reprimanded - it is not Fæ. If Arbcom does see fit to take some action against or send a statement to Fæ regarding this - I will be very disappointed if an even stronger action is not taken against the cyberbullies involved. --Varnent (talk) 09:22, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

• Recuse - Tiptoety 00:39, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
• I will be mostly inactive starting 1 June - 28 July --Guerillero | My Talk 01:55, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
• Note: The clerks have been advised to hold back on opening a case until 2359 UTC on 28 May 2012, should the usual net-4 acceptance level be reached more than 24 hours before that time, to permit Fae to respond, and arbitrators holding their acceptance/decline vote to have the opportunity to read and consider his statement. Those commenting on this request may wish to bear this in mind. Risker (talk) 02:07, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
• Recuse, I have previously been vocal in my support for Fae, and will most likely continue to do so. That obviously precludes me from any involvement as a clerk in this case. Lankiveil 11:55, 24 May 2012 (UTC).

Rhetoric and Scousers

There's some ludicrous paralipsis here; more generally, this arena is pernicious; please, " Eh! Eh! Alright! Alright! Calm down! Calm down!" , Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 09:01, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Double bind?

I feel like I am being placed in an uncomfortable position here. There is the warning from ArbCom about evidence which states "No speculation of off-wiki lifestyle, behavior, orientation and/or private life will be allowed". Yet, at the same time, Roger Davies, an Arb, is asking if I "could clarify whether or not you have commented on Fae's sex life, here or elsewhere, and if so in what context". Roger's question relates to Fæ's original statement in this case, which was later redacted to remove serious unsubstantiated allegations against me. I am willing to answer Roger's question, but I fear it will be impossible for me to do so in a meaningful way without breaking the rules of evidence for this case. I made a rather long statement in February in response to similar allegations from an editor known for flights of fancy, so seems like a waste of effort. At the same time, I don't wish for people to accept Fæ's allegations against me simply because I do not refute them here, but ArbCom has tied my hands. What am I to do? Delicious carbuncle (talk) 11:24, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Post your statement on clerk's (User_talk:NuclearWarfare) page, let them sort it out. Nobody Ent 11:56, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Delicious carbuncle -- the two are not mutually exclusive. Roger is not asking for speculation about anyone's personal life. Roger is instead asking whether you have made such speculation in the past, i.e. "here or elsewhere, and if so in what context". -- Lord Roem (talk) 14:21, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

I am unwilling to enter into a discussion of statements that I have made if I am unable to quote those statements. If they are considered to be speculations about Fæ's sex life -- whether or not I intended them to be -- then I am violating the rules of evidence set out for this case. Unless the rules allow for a frank and open discussion, my answer to Roger will be that some people act as though I have speculated about Fæ's sex life, but without knowing the specific statements under discussion, they may be misinterpreting my comments (in some cases deliberately so). Delicious carbuncle (talk) 19:10, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

(od) No, DC, it was a very general question. I asked it because you quoted a some text but only emphatically denied the HIV part saying nothing about the personal life aspect of the quoted text. As very specific denials like that can be read as tacit admissions, and I didn't think that was your intention, I was wondering what you had to say about the part of Fæ's allegation to which you hadn't responded.  Roger Davies 19:22, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

An arbitration case involving me?

I'm probably far less informed about how arbcom works than insiders might think, so I'm curious what Lord Roem meant when he notified me of a case "involving" me. Am I a party to the case?

I don't mind being a party, if that's what I am, but I'm not at all sure what's expected of me if that's the case. --SB_Johnny | ✌ 23:09, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

No no no. That was my bad. I used the 'party' template instead of the 'you commented on X case' template. My apologies. -- Lord Roem (talk) 23:12, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Ah, thanks. Happens to the best of us, Lord Roem! :-) --SB_Johnny | ✌ 23:19, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

(ec)Everyone who commented above got that same notice. It is basically a notice that the case has been opened, and tells you where you can give input in the process. Collect (talk) 23:13, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Right, but to clarify, this isn't normally done (as far as I know). Usually parties to a case receive one templated notice and others (commenters, statement-makers, et al.) receive a different templated notice. --MZMcBride (talk) 22:43, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

I have now been online for three decades - and I have seen such stuff innumerable times in that time - I just don't worry about it <g>. Collect (talk) 23:17, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Added parties

Why were Delicious carbuncle and Michaeldsuarez added as parties? Nobody Ent 23:31, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

SirFozzie explained the addition on the evidence talk page. Lord Roem (talk) 02:28, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Not finding it -- can you provide a diff or link? Nobody Ent 02:44, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

I apologize, it was on the workshop talk page:

The Committee always states that we will look at all issues brought to our attention as part of a case. Right now, evidence has been posted that made me decide to add Michaeldsuarez and DC as parties to this case: DC, if you have evidence to post/rebut other people's evidence, please do so over this weekend. SirFozzie (talk) 15:32, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

--Lord Roem (talk) 02:50, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

So while a majority of the Committee is required to open a case, once it's its open, a single arbitrator can add parties to it? Nobody Ent 08:41, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

The drafting arb is responsible for managing the case, drafting the first proposals, and generally presenting his or her thoughts first to the Committee. I wouldn't be surprised if SirFozzie passed this by on the arb mailing list first. Arbs don't act unilaterally in their official capacities. Lord Roem (talk) 17:30, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Either SirFozzie is acting unilaterally, or the Committee has chosen not to follow default policy and hold proceedings in private. Is there an announcment when this (non public activity) is decided, or does the community just have to infer it? Nobody Ent 17:39, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Considering there's a distinct lack of documentation of how parties are added to cases at all, I think this falls under NOTBUREAU/IAR.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 17:58, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Nah. "Not bureau" would imply it doesn't matter page which the committee decides on, or whether there's a template with support/oppose sections or just a free form discussion. Holding proceedings in private, unless supported by the need to maintain confidentiality of Wikipideans private information, is just not following the policy. Nobody Ent 18:49, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Review

I have briefly reviewed this case, and in my opinion it would have been hard for the committee to get the case more wrong if they had tried. I cannot understand the dynamic at work here, unless it is that the committee fear that interaction with the WMF will expose their poorly thought-out position on privacy. I despair of any good coming form this committee. Rich Farmbrough, 07:25, 23 July 2012 (UTC).

So in essence, "hurr hurr you're wrong" ? Tarc (talk) 12:42, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

No, I think it's more "hahahha oh wait, it's not a joke?". --Nemo 13:14, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Request for clarification (January 2014)

Original discussion

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Initiated by Fæ (talk) at 13:33, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Case or decision affected

Link to "Unblocked by the Arbitration Committee" statement

Statement by Fæ

This request was first raised two months ago at AC/N link when I was advised to re-raise it here after the elections.

At the beginning of last year Arbcom accepted my appeal but at that point introduced the restrictions:

1. topic banned from editing BLPs relating to sexuality, broadly construed
2. topic banned from images relating to sexuality, broadly construed

I am requesting that the restrictions are lifted as not being of practical benefit to the project, in particular they are a key reason why I am avoiding offering my experience and volunteer time for training events or content creation projects that would improve the English Misplaced Pages. As an example of how difficult these broad restrictions are to comply with, in November 2013 I ran a one-off presentation and workshop with Kings College London as part of a UK "Women in Science" series of events; these events are widely seen as a positive step by the Misplaced Pages community and a positive story by the global press with regard to addressing perceived systematic gender bias for Misplaced Pages content. During the event I created a stub for Susan Lea, a professor of psychology at the college, as suggested by attendees, during the same event this was developed. It never occurred to me this may be an issue and it was only later that I realized that Lea's research covers sexual violence and rape.

Due to my past stressful experience of being harassed, I focused my volunteer time during 2013 on Wikimedia Commons, where I have uploaded over 160,000 photographs, and on request supported the Welsh Misplaced Pages where a continuing cooperative project has resulted in my uploading 2,700 requested book covers with 700 new articles about authors being created (some are authors on LGBT topics, though I have not created the articles). Apart from a handful of related image renames or behind the scenes OTRS work, I remained retired as a Wikipedian during 2013.

I have a long running interest in LGBT history and archives and I am at an informal exploratory discussion stage with a London college and planning to contact an independent library/archive I helped a few years ago, for a volunteer project I hope get off the ground in early 2014 (in advance of Wikimania 2014) that would help English Misplaced Pages content with media and previously unpublished source material, and could itself support the case for funding of an academic placement of a Wikipedian in Residence. I aim to get a proposal completed by February. By its nature a LGBT project would involve articles about events and living people (being from the 1950s to the current time) and LGBT material would be considered under the broad topic of sexuality.

Note, I have an approved project grant from WMUK which supports Commons batch upload projects during 2014. Should there be a suitable opportunity to batch upload LGBT archive material, it is likely that it would be covered by the current grant.

I hope this request can be handled in a respectful way, especially considering the off-wiki attention that this topic tends to attract. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 13:33, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

@Worm That Turned—My focus has been on other projects, partly due to being concerned about how wide the topic ban of sexuality broadly construed is. You may wish to consider my Wikimedia work as demonstrated by some of my 2013 projects: Aeroplanes, LACMA (art history), MOD, Welsh books. These and my other projects have generated huge amounts of valuable educational content. In addition my long term role on the GLAMwiki Toolset steering group has resulted in Wikimedia tools which are about to generate many millions of high quality media assets for Misplaced Pages in partnership with many international leading institutions.

@Beeblebrox—As an example the difficulty of how broad "sexuality" is, I was at the Tate Britain exhibition on Art Under Attack this afternoon and was particularly interested in whether we could get versions of the New Scotland Yard letters from 1914 carrying warnings about suffragettes known to have made attacks on artworks, and so reasonably improve Misplaced Pages's articles about WSPU members. I believe any work such as this, potentially in partnership with the British Museum and Women's Library would be impossible for me to support under the current restrictions. In terms of past problems, I believe you are probably referring to edits I made back in 2010 or earlier. I have made well over 1,000,000 edits on various Wikimedia projects in the 3 years since then. In terms of others wanting my support, I have a planned training and workshop day with the National Maritime Museum and other museum staff next month and should also get on with spending the WMUK project grant later this month, none of this volunteer work is made easy with a broadly construed topic ban making impossible any edit to the English Misplaced Pages touching topics such as women's rights, or notable figures in naval history who happen to be of LGBT interest (there are many). You may wish to consider how well followed my edits are, giving you some assurance that any problem I create would be likely to be rapidly flagged, in all probability both to me and many others.

• Related to this point, I would like specific short term permission to make an article about an 11th century B.C. statue in the British Museum that one of my historian friends asked me to take photographs of for an undergraduate course; it was always my intention to create a Misplaced Pages article about this unique statue and I am unsure how else would be appropriate to ask for a specific waiver, and this may prove a good example of my editing strengths to support a later full appeal. This is in the BM catalogue here and my photographs were published on Commons at Category:Assyrian statue BM 124963 in June last year. The good quality cuneiform inscription (for which my photographs appear to be some of the best published records as even the BM only has one partial photo) is a key document from Ashur-bel-kala's rule.

@Nick-D, thanks for the feedback, however I believe you are being rather unfair on this criticism as you are referring to a batch upload project completed in February 2013, in fact the IWM uploads were my first project which I was motivated to start after the death of Aaron Swartz, and there have been many other better managed batch uploads since then. If you check the project pages above, I put a great deal of careful attention and cooperative discussion on how best to add useful categories, descriptions, metadata and find specific and useful file-names for my uploads. If you check my Commons talk page history I put significant effort into improving and testing alternatives when my fellow contributors raise concerns. For more relevant history, you may want to check my user page on this project where there are links to my past excellent FA and GA work before the Arbcom case.

• I note your separate question on Commons categories, so I guess you are happy with my current work on file naming. Around 95%+ of the US Department of Defense uploads have reasonable categories on upload based on heuristics I have carefully and cautiously built up over the last 8 months and published on-wiki, with a reasonable community consensus behind the project, and those with no categories are flagged to me during upload; in fact they result in a tab popping up on my browser showing the image page so I can manually add a category if I wish. In contrast the related UK Ministry of Defence batch upload project has no automated categorization as a deliberate choice, as explained in the main project category. I think this question is now a long way from the topic of this request, so if you would like to help me and others with feedback on these batch uploads, I suggest doing so on Commons rather than on the English Misplaced Pages.

@Thryduulf, my reason for asking to remove the restrictions was that I do not believe that they serve to protect or improve the content of the English Misplaced Pages. With regard to BLPs, this was about a reference I added to an article in July 2011, which was at the time was removed after discussion rather than dispute resolution, and was not part of a pattern of problematic BLP editing; in fact if you are looking for evidence for my positive work on BLPs, you can find some by going to User:Fæ/Underworld/Backlogs where you can see a long term BLP specific project I ran to add reliable sources to BLPs in order to overturn PRODs. We are now in the third year since that regrettable problematic edit, and I would like to return to normal editing and help the Wikimedia movement through my interest in working with GLAM partners. This becomes a sad non-starter if I have to start off by explaining that I am considered unsafe to edit articles or feel obliged to repeat unpleasant details of my long term internet harassment which I would rather forget. I think everyone is aware that my edits here will continue to be scrutinized and made part of the 4 years of off-wiki live commentary about me. In this context I have no doubt that any edit I make that may be interpreted as against any guidelines or policy would be rapidly escalated, probably resulting in the harshest possible sanctions, without needing edit restrictions to enforce it. Perhaps you can understand how this has made returning to helping create content on Misplaced Pages a depressing prospect for me over the last year.

However I am happy to be pragmatic, if this can provide a way of restoring my confidence enough to follow up on making proposals for LGBT projects with outcomes before Wikimania, without misleading any archivist or librarian I am in discussion with by making commitments for creating Misplaced Pages content that I would later be unable to deliver on.

Perhaps for the moment, we can consider a simple clarification without requiring Arbcom to agree any amendment that:

1. Articles relating to LGBT and other rights history and associated culture that do not focus on living subjects, even if they contain references or details on living subjects, are outside of this restriction for example GLF, Campaign for Homosexual Equality, Women's Social and Political Union, Stonewall (charity).
2. Creating or editing BLPs where a sexuality connection was not apparent, such as happened with Susan Lea will not be considered an infraction. I am happy to pre-emptively report on similar accidental situations should this occur again, if there is a procedure for doing so; in fact it would be immensely helpful if an Arbcom member were available to help interpret the broad editing restriction so that I can run any project proposals past them for comment.
3. Non-sexual pre-20th century images and images of pre-20th century artefacts and artworks are outside of the intended scope of the restriction. For example the 22,000 art history images at Images from LACMA and the previously mentioned 11th C. BCE statue without obvious sexual content; i.e. a symbolic goddess of love is not strictly sexuality, but a photograph of a 1st century Roman good-luck phallus charm would be within the sexuality restriction for images.
4. Historic political documents, political posters and official portraits or public group photographs as part of political organizations or historic protests that have a focus on human rights rather than a focus on sexuality are outside the intended scope of the restriction. This distinguishes images of sexuality from images that have educational value in illustrating human rights relating to gender and gender identity. For example the 20th century portrait File:Emmeline Pankhurst I.png. For the moment I would imagine that my restored historic photograph of Park and Boulton File:Park and Boulton (Fanny and Stella) restored.jpg or my restoration of Cecil Beaton's wartime photograph (probably not intentionally related to sexuality by Beaton, but later interpreted as homoerotic) File:Life at Sea on Board HMS Alcantara, March 1942 CBM1049 adjusted.jpg, would remain within the restriction as these would require an amendment rather than a clarification.

By the way, I know a lot has been read into me raising this request on the Bank Holiday. From my viewpoint this was a quiet day when I could write out a request, as I was previously advised by Arbcom members to do on the noticeboard. It was not my intention to pointily create this request on the first day the new committee was available. I am normally more politically astute than to do something so stupid, in this case I was let down by my lack of awareness of how the Committee works.

• I believe the example of Sandi Toksvig as a BLP that I could edit is unhelpful. Should I touch an article about someone like Toksig with a public profile as an advocate for LGBT rights, I have no doubt this would be evidence for someone to request an edit block due to being in contravention of Arbcom's restriction. It is not FUD when I explain in this request that this restriction depresses me, and this is part of why staying retired during 2013 seemed preferable to editing. I feel it would be seriously unwise or appear misleading or incompetent for me to put myself in the position of putting my name against a LGBT related funding proposal for Misplaced Pages content creation, or leading a room of potential Misplaced Pages editors with expertise in LGBT matters, only to have to confess that though I have been creating and editing LGBT articles on the English Misplaced Pages for 8 years, I am officially considered untrusted to edit any BLP related to sexuality in its broadest possible interpretation, including any LGBT context, when the history of LGBT is fundamentally about the people that made it happen. My main personal driver for risking the inevitable off-wiki abuse for coming out of retirement and raising this question back in November 2013 with Arbcom, was to support my discussions for projects related to gay history month in February 2014. I have been involved with LGBT history and advocacy groups for over 30 years. My interest in Misplaced Pages will always be entwined with my knowledge of this subject and my personal LGBT network. Yes there are unpaid volunteers like yourself who might join in with an LGBT event, but active WMUK volunteers who are openly LGBT and prepared to use their free time to create LGBT projects and partnerships with LGBT archives and related organizations are in short supply, I would have difficulty naming more than 3, including myself, and I am only aware of me attempting to create any new projects for 2014.

@Newyorkbrad: Thanks for the response to my clarifications above. I find it deeply depressing that the restriction should now be interpreted to include any article that touches on the general history of women's rights or LGBT history and associated culture and not just BLPs. Having no confidence that I will ever be allowed to support any project outcomes, makes it impossible to proceed with a 2014 proposal for an LGBT initiative supported by the UK chapter, and I shall have to reject the existing request for my support of a women in science related training event later this year as these invariably touch topics related to feminism. The limited number of unpaid UK volunteers prepared to openly work on LGBT projects, means that for the third year running, Wikimedia UK will now fail to have delivered any LGBT friendly Misplaced Pages content creation event as part of LGBT History Month (in February).

Statement by Thryduulf

Fæ, I would recommend that if you wish to return to full editing on en.wp that you spend some time between now and march formulating a request to narrow the scope of your topic bans rather than removing them entirely. After at least 6-9 months of successfully working with no problems within those restrictions, the committee is more likely to look favourably on a further relaxation of restrictions or removing them entirely.

When you make that request (and don't make it shortly after midnight on the 1st) I suggest you focus on what you want to do, specifically, not what broad categories of material you might have worked on. "Sexuality" is a very broad topic, so there is scope for narrowing it. Identify something specific that you want to improve that is on the edge of the "Sexuality" topic area and propose a rewording of the article topic ban that leaves the core area you were sanctioned for within the scope but allows you to edit your proposed borderline articles. Propose also the addition of a second clause to the image ban along the lines of "excluding images directly related to X", where X is the article topic area you want to work on.

Once you have decided what you want to work on, get some edits to a related area that is outside the scope of the topic ban but which is adjacent to it. For example if you want to improve the coverage of living openly gay UK MPs, first improve an article like Nicholas Eden, 2nd Earl of Avon (died 1985, so clearly not a BLP subject), but make sure you don't work with images for the article. Thryduulf (talk) 11:28, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

@Fæ: the best way to ask about a specific exemption is to explicitly ask for a specific exemption. You certainly wont get one if you ask for a complete removal of the restrictions. Regarding the statue, it would not a BLP by any stretch of the imagination so you don't need permission to create the article without an image.

Reading only the two links you give, the statue isn't obviously related to sexuality and if it isn't then presuming nobody in your images is being sexual around/with the statue in your images then I personally don't see any issue with you adding, discussing and creating images on the article (non-sexual images of a statue unrelated to sexuality are not "images related to sexuality" however broadly construed). If the statue is related to sexuality, or if its connection is uncertain, then in your shoes I would have asked for a clarification about whether dealing with images of the statue on the article about the statue was covered by the topic ban or not (appeals are limited, good faith requests for clarification are not). If the answer is no, then you're good to go with no worries and no exemption needed. If the answer is yes you could have asked for a specific exemption at that point if the committee hadn't proposed one themselves - I've seen before responses along the lines of "yes this is included in the scope of the ban, but we didn't intend it to be, so we'll amend it/clarify/provide a specific exemption", the Argentine History case comes to mind as a recent example.

I'm sorry to say however that the way you have approached this amendment request means that the committee are unlikely to be minded to consider such a request at the moment. That doesn't stop you creating the article now and leaving the images to someone else. Thryduulf (talk) 18:08, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

@Fæ: (7 Jan) I think it's worth noting that, at least in my mind, there are three sorts of BLPs when it comes to sexuality. There are biographies of people whose notability is primarily or entirely related to their sexuality or sexuality more generally (e.g. Peter Tatchell) and those articles you should not edit at all (imo), although there is no restriction on you linking to these articles where relevant (if the edit your making isn't restricted for another reason). Then there are people whose notability whose notability is entirely irrelevant to sexuality (e.g Michael Rose (British Army officer)) - those articles you are free to edit with no restriction. Thirdly there are people whose sexuality is notable but incidentally so, or where sexuality is only part of the reason for their notability (e.g. Sandi Toksvig). You can edit the parts of those articles that are not related to sexuality, as long as you don't introduce elements related to sexuality.

Regarding your comments about WMUK, that is not true at all. There is nothing stopping you delivering a programme related to LGBT issues that are not BLPs, nor one with outcomes on any Wikimedia project other than the English Misplaced Pages (there are lots to choose from). It also doesn't stop you developing a program where others deliver parts related to BLPs on the English Misplaced Pages. I am perfectly willing and capable (availability dependent) to work on an LGBT project for example, and as was noted when this came up a few months back on the WMUK wiki, I am not alone. FUD will not get your restrictions lifted sooner. Thryduulf (talk) 11:57, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

Comment by Nick-D

At the risk of seeming rude/ungrateful Fæ, I'd suggest that the uploads to Commons you highlight in your request have had an undue emphasis on quantity over quality. I've recently been working with some of the IWM images you uploaded of British naval operations off Norway, and the fact that they were all uploaded as "File:The Royal Navy during the Second World War" followed by the relevant IWM catalogue number made them difficult to use. The minimal categorisation of the images you've been uploading also do not contribute to these images ever actually being used (for instance, you originally placed these IWM images in only the very broad "Royal Naval photographer" category, and images of aircraft you uploaded in November were placed only in a category for the airport, and not the plane type/serial number which is typically a much more useful classification). While your work in uploading all these images is clearly very valuable and contributed to "my" most recent FA (Operation Tungsten) and what I hope will be my next GA (Operation Mascot), the lack of basic follow through with categorisation to encourage their use raises some concerns in my mind (quite possibly unfairly) about how carefully you'd edit BLPs as it is suggestive of an attitude of prioritising "adding stuff" over "adding useful stuff". In short, I'd suggest that as part of the next unban request you be in a stronger position to demonstrate the quality of your contributions, and not just the quantity of them. Nick-D (talk) 11:46, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Fae, you're still frequently uploading images without any or without useful categories. For instance (selected more or less at random from the last few days) File:Retired German air force Maj. Gen. Hermann Wachter, at podium, deputy director of the George C. Marshall European Center for Security Studies, speaks during the Marshall Center's 20th anniversary commemoration 130612-D-SK857-334.jpg (only category is a red link), File:U.S. Navy Adm. James A. Winnefeld, vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, speaks at the 2013 Joint Women's Leadership Symposium at the Gaylord National Resort and Convention Center in National Harbor, Md 130606-D-HU462-074.jpg (originally uploaded with tags asking others to look for categories despite this depicting a notable person), File:U.S. Army Command Sgt. Maj. Greg Miller, left, assigned to the 184th Ordnance Battalion (Explosive Ordnance Disposal (EOD)), Combined Joint Task Force Paladin, poses for a photograph with his son Spc. Grant 130616-D-EN552-835.jpg (image of a probably notable person categorised only to where the photo was taken and with the image not rotated so that it's upright) and File:U.S. Navy chief petty officers assigned to the aircraft carrier Pre-Commissioning Unit Gerald R. Ford (CVN 78) talk to petty officers first class selected for promotion to chief petty officers at the Navy 130813-N-HZ247-462.jpg (no categories at all). I acknowledge that many of the other images you've uploaded have had useful categories added from the get go, but it's not consistent. Nick-D (talk) 11:05, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Fæ, The reason I raised this is that you cited your Commons activity as a major factor supporting your application to have the restrictions here lifted. In my view your upload practices there actually reflect poorly on you (especially in regards to taking care with getting small but important details right and following up after the event to correct mistakes and/or improve the quality of your contributions), and so do not really support this application. Nick-D (talk) 23:16, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Comment by Wnt

During the arbitration I commented that people interpreting outing policy focused too much on whether personal information was literally secret, as opposed to whether "opposition research" bringing it up at every opportunity was improper. My argument was rejected at the time, yet ArbCom has since changed course - ironically enough, in regard to someone with an opposing opinion during the Fae arbitration - finding that unduly focusing on another user's personal information was indeed highly inappropriate. I might even say that decision has gone too far the other way. Given the decisive change in how this policy is interpreted, I think it is quite appropriate to consider an early end to a topic ban based on it. Wnt (talk) 07:13, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

Statement by {other user}

Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

Arbitrator views and discussion

• Per the unblock request, the topic bans may be appealed after 1 year - that is 12 March 2014. So, I'd not change anything for now. I am pleased that you haven't run into similar troubles since the arbitration case, but in March I would expect a little more evidence (here or on other Wikimedia projects) that you are unlikely to run into the difficulties that lead to the case. The fact that you've made less than 100 edits to Misplaced Pages since being unblocked gives me very little to go on, and I'm not active at the other projects to look at how you're doing. Worm(talk) 10:24, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

  Just on the 4 topics that Fae has raised - I disagree with NYB that (1) falls clearly within the restriction. However, care must be exercised when looking at such articles as they may well have BLP elements - Fae should avoid these elements. On (2), care should be paramount, so I should hope this is a rare situation. As long the article is legitimately created without knowledge of the sexuality aspect and Fae does not adding anything with regard to the sexuality aspect of such people when it's discovered, I would not expect any sanction. (3) and (4) seem fine to me. Agree with NYB's latest comment regarding the grey area, and it would be best for you to leave those parts alone. Also I have no issue with clarifications at this time.Worm(talk) 11:23, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

• Recused. AGK 12:57, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
• I pretty much agree with Worm. Too early, and while this request explains why you would like the topic bans lifted, there really isn't any indication of why it would be in the best interest of the project and/or why we should not expect to see a repeat of past problems. Beeblebrox (talk) 15:24, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

Just like to re-emphasize that no matter what arguments you make this is still premature and in my opinion should not even be considered at this time. Frankly, filing such a request on New Year's Day smacks strongly of "asking the other parent." Beeblebrox (talk) 20:05, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

That being said, I do not find the underlying request compelling regardless of when it was submitted and it seems to me there is little appetite for considering this particular request, now or in March. Beeblebrox (talk) 01:00, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

• Firstly, this request is premature. Secondly, if I was to consider a relaxation of the topic bans (at the present time) I would want to see a specific, narrow scope request. I'm not sure I'd support such a request, but if I was to consider anything I would want a much more specific/narrow scoped request, with a specific reason. I know you do good work on Commons and elsewhere, but this request is undoubtedly premature, and hence I'd rather not change anything for now. NativeForeigner 06:54, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

• I agree with NYB regarding dates, as this seems to now be a clarification. Three and four look reasonable to edit. Two will require significant caution. Still thinking on one. NativeForeigner 16:48, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
• I think 1) is very borderline. It's not squarely within the restriction per se, but in editing it it may be extremely easy to fall within the boundaries of BLP. I'd exercise caution, and if there are other topics available, it might be best to focus on those. NativeForeigner 18:08, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

• Speaking for myself only, I do not have a problem with considering this request in January rather than in March, and Fae has provided some explanation for the timing of his request (although posting it the very day the new arbitrators started was a mistake). I think the serious issue with this request is that historically there have been issues with Fae's image uploads and edits concerning the sexuality of living persons. I would therefore consider a modification of the topic-ban that would allow him to contribute images in clearly historical contexts, but not images relating to living (or recently deceased) persons. I am unwilling at this time to remove the restriction against sexuality-related editing on BLPs. Newyorkbrad (talk) 15:37, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
  • I ask that Fae please respond to Thryduulf's observations above. Newyorkbrad (talk) 21:43, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
  • I'll address the four categories raised by Fae tomorrow. Thank you for outlining them. Wnt's comments strike me as an irrelevant digression. Newyorkbrad (talk) 07:33, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Fae, your categories (3) and (4) strike me as not being prohibited by the restriction. Items in category (2) should also be okay, provided you don't edit a sexuality-related part of the article. Category (1) probably falls within the restriction so I suggest you focus more on the other categories. apply. I hope it is unnecessary for me to urge you to stay far away from edge cases, point-making, and boundary testing. Newyorkbrad (talk) 23:29, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
  • User:Fae, as I think about it, if you were to avoid references to living persons' sexuality in category (1) articles, the restriction would not apply. A closer question is whether the restriction would apply if you wrote "John Smith is the President of X group," where X group is (e.g.) an LGBT rights organization, but you don't mention Smith's own sexuality. I should probably step back now and let other arbitrators comment on your categories (my view still being that as you are seeking to clarify rather than amend the restrictions, the date issue does not arise). Newyorkbrad (talk) 11:16, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
• Broadly agree with what other arbitrators have said so far. Fae, there is good advice being given by Thryduulf and Nick-D. If you follow that advice then I would be more likely to support a future amendment request. If you seek a less broad amendment request earlier than the date suggested by other arbitrators (12 March), I suggest a preliminary note asking whether such a request should be made or should be held back until 12 March (or some point thereafter). Carcharoth (talk) 03:34, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
• I generally agree with the above, both that the request is premature at this time, and that when it is the time, I would be much more comfortable with a gradual scaling back of sanctions than a wholesale removal. I would encourage Fae to think about what shape such a scaling back would entail, and also to show more non-problematic editing activity outside the banned areas. Sexuality may be a broad area, but it is not all-encompassing, and there are many areas in which to edit with no risk of falling foul of the ban. I also agree with Newyorkbrad in that the BLP sanctions are the ones I would be least comfortable with lifting. Seraphimblade 04:24, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
• We should either enforce time limits on appeals, or stop including them in our decisions. I prefer the former approach. Decline. (I'm also not inclined to grant this appeal on the merits, for the reasons outlined by my colleagues.) T. Canens (talk) 15:09, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
• Decline. This can probably be closed now.  Roger Davies 09:49, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.