This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Lightbreather (talk | contribs) at 15:46, 6 May 2014 (→Clarification request: Gun control#Gaijin42 (topic banned): fixed typo; added links to notifications). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Amendment request: Falun Gong 2

Initiated by  Ohc  at 02:21, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Case or decision affected

Falun Gong 2 arbitration case (t) (ev / t) (w / t) (pd / t)

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Falun_Gong_2#Ohconfucius_topic-banned

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Falun_Gong_2#Ohconfucius subject to mandated external review

List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request:

• Ohconfucius (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) (initiator)

Statement by Ohconfucius

It has been more that 18 months since the case. Since then, I have performed tens of thousands of edits to align date formats, and have also made significant contributions to numerous articles, including developing many DYKs and several good articles. Arbcom can have faith that I can stay away from articles about the movement and from drama relating thereto. I am seeking to remove a topic ban not so that I can go back to editing articles on that sect. The ban no longer serves any purpose except to potentially prevent me from contributing to China articles to the fullest extent and to the best of my expertise and ability, and also to edit a page in my own userspace. In addition, it would be important for me to once again to restored to an editor of good standing. -- Ohc  02:21, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

• @Floquenbeam: The great irony is that once the topic ban came into being, I couldn't do anything to that rant without being in breach of the ban. -- Ohc  16:30, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
• @Floquenbeam: @Beeblebrox: I'm fine with that being deleted. I've long gotten over it and see no useful purpose in dwelling over the bitter past history of editors most of whom are no longer active in the project. Falun Gong isn't going to change as a result of my ranting about it, but I've been too lazy to do any housekeeping – not that I could have even mentioned it to anyone, let alone ask for it to be deleted due to the breadth of the TBAN. -- Ohc  02:48, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
• @Beeblebrox: The answer to that is easy. The TBAN states: "Ohconfucius is indefinitely banned from editing and/or discussing topics related to the Falun Gong movement and/or the persecution thereof, broadly construed, across all namespaces." The typical Arbcom "broadly construed" provision is the killer. I am afraid to death of editing any China-related article because of that provision. Jiang Zemin, Bo Xilai are the obvious ones due to their unproven roles in the alleged persecution of FLG practitioners.

  However, the problem is not only China articles where there is mention of Falun Gong persecution, but any article where The Epoch Times or Shen Yun are mentioned; any article where ET is quoted or cited is technically off-limits to me. As an example, I am currently working through Category:CS1 errors: dates yet I cannot correct the cs1 date error in Shen Yun. More specifically and problematically, there are Robocop admins prowling, and I can see myself blocked and/or have my ban extended for technical breaches by making even minor changes to apparently innocuous or unrelated articles such as List of newspapers in Australia and Korkoro. I trust that you can see how the breadth of the TBAN is a restraint for me.

  I now seek to repair my reputation – and this is the most important reason for this appeal. But if it pleases Arbcom, I would add a voluntary undertaking not to edit any article directly connected with FLG. -- Ohc  02:48, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Heim

For what it's worth, this ban barely passed in the first place, getting through by just one vote. And there's a good reason: It was an exceedingly ill-founded ban. As two arbitrators pointed out, the evidence for Ohconfucius's POV-pushing was weak. Frankly, the rest of the committee erred in forgetting that editing with a POV is not necessarily pushing a POV; sometimes, adding a POV to an article is balancing the article. (Frankly, Misplaced Pages has a serious systemic bias problem with these articles because of the unwillingness of Western editors to consider an anti-FG stance for fear of being seen as pro-PRC, and ArbCom fell into this trap hook, line and sinker.) Either way, if no one can show evidence of recent problematic behaviour, this appeal should be granted. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 00:56, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Statement by {other user}

Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

• Noting, that I changed the title of this request from Appeal request to Amendment request. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 03:17, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Arbitrator views and discussion

• No. And the existence of User:Ohconfucius/essay/rant about Falun Gong pages in the user space of a topic banned editor seems unwise, and I'm considering MFDing it. --Floquenbeam (talk) 15:55, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
  • @Ohconfucius: I can WP:CSD#U1 it if you want. --Floquenbeam (talk) 16:33, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
  • @Ohconfucius: I'm interpreting your thanking me for the edit above as "Go ahead and delete it, Floq/" Let me know if that's wrong. --Floquenbeam (talk) 17:36, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
• Recuse. T. Canens (talk) 16:00, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
• I have two questions here:

• Could you give an example of a specific page that you are prevented from editing by this TBAN that you believe you should be able to edit in a productive manner?
• Would you like the "rant" page in your userspace deleted? I'm not trying to put you over a barrel here, just giving you a way to be rid of it without any chance of violating the topic ban by actually editing it. Say the word and I'll zap it for you. Beeblebrox (talk) 17:33, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

I'm liking the sound of Salvio's idea below, although I might like it better if it were six months instead of a full year. Beeblebrox (talk) 20:45, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

• I'm inclined to accept the amendment request, albeit in a slightly modified form. Instead of removing the topic ban entirely, I'd go for something along the lines of a "parole": Ohconfucius' topic ban is suspended but, for a year, any uninvolved admin may reimpose it in the event of fresh misconduct within the original area of conflict. After a year of trouble-free editing, the topic ban will automatically expire. @Ohconfucius: would this solution satisfy you? Salvio 09:20, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
• I would agree with SG's proposal of a year's provisional lifting, to be made a permanent removal if no problems occur and be revoked if any do. Seraphimblade 18:03, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
  • As there seems to be reasonable support for the provisional suspension of the remedy, I'll propose a motion tonight. Would anyone else like to weigh in as to how long the probationary period should last? Seraphimblade 16:21, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
• I like Salvio's idea of a provisional suspension. I personally feel like one year would make sense to ensure all is well. GorillaWarfare (talk) 22:36, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Motion

For this motion there are 11 active arbitrators, not counting 2 who are inactive and 1 who is recused, so 6 support or oppose votes are a majority.

The Committee resolves that remedy 2 (Ohconfucius topic-banned) in the Falun Gong 2 arbitration case is suspended for the period of one year from the date of passage of this motion. During the period of suspension, any uninvolved administrator may, as an arbitration enforcement action, reinstate the topic ban on Ohconfucius should Ohconfucius fail to follow Misplaced Pages behavior and editing standards while editing in the topic area covered by the suspended restriction. In addition, the topic ban will be reinstated should Ohconfucius be validly blocked by any uninvolved administrator for misconduct in the topic area covered by the suspended restriction. Such a reinstatement may be appealed via the normal process for appealing arbitration enforcement actions. After one year from the date of passage of this motion, if the ban has not been reinstated or any reinstatements have been successfully appealed, the topic ban will be repealed.

Support

1. Seraphimblade 05:55, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
2. Worth trying. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 18:58, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
3. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:56, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
4. Weakly. AGK 23:03, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
5. With the request that Ohconfucius steer well clear of matters of controversy in this area. Newyorkbrad (talk) 04:10, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
6. Salvio 09:29, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
7. Worm(talk) 07:18, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Oppose

Abstain

Comments by arbitrators

Amendment request: Fæ

Initiated by Fæ (talk) at 12:10, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Case or decision affected

This restriction is not logged as an action resulting from the Arbcom case. It was added when I was unblocked as documented on my talk page.

A previous discussion in advance of this request was made here in January 2014.

The restrictions were stated as:

1. topic banned from editing BLPs relating to sexuality, broadly construed
2. topic banned from images relating to sexuality, broadly construed

Statement by Fæ

I would like the committee to remove the restrictions. They are so broad that they remain blight major barrier to my return to productive work as a Wikipedian editor, my future employment as a Wikipedian in Residence, and ensure I cannot create proposals for, nor take a lead in, future Misplaced Pages projects.

Failing removal, replacing with a narrow and well-specified restriction that is relevant to the original complaint in 2011 (which never went to dispute resolution as it was resolved amicably with the other editor), would prove far less damaging, such as restricted from adding external links on BLP articles to sites featuring sexually graphic material, excluding external links to germane non-profit/charity archives with educational medical or political material, such as the Wellcome Digital Library, British Library or similar respected archive or museum. However even this seems excessive, when there are sufficient members of the Misplaced Pages community closely following my edits to ensure that any problematic link would be rapidly challenged and widely discussed for consensus.

The previous discussion confirmed that members of Arbcom are not of one mind on how to read the restrictions, leaving them interpreted as broadly as technically possible. This stops editing where there would be any way of interpreting the topic relating to sexuality, women's rights, or of LGBT cultural interest. Specific examples included:

• Suffrage in Britain.
• Ancient history connected to gender or sexuality. I have created Assyrian statue (BM 124963) only after reviewing it specifically with Arbcom.
• Women in Science edit-a-thons that touch on sexuality, for example my article on Professor Susan Lea, created before realizing her speciality is sexual assault.
• LGBT cultural initiatives within the Wikimedia LGBT programme.

Specific projects that these restrictions have made impossible, damaging content improvement for Misplaced Pages:

• Educational material to support Wiki Loves Pride 2014. Of the 100,000 images that I have been working with the Wellcome to make available (see demonstration upload set), a significant number relate to AIDS education and ACTUP posters, as well as more general LGBT related historic material. I am free to support these on Commons, but unable to help on Misplaced Pages.
• My proposal with an LGBT archive was withdrawn due to these restrictions. I was hoping to start this project back in February (diversity awareness month).
• I have not applied for Wikipedian in Residence positions in 2014.

In January it was suggested that I create new BLPs to demonstrate my competence (I improved several hundred before the Arbcom case). I have created the following articles in the last couple of months, mostly on living women:

Biographies

• Pat Thane
• Emily Simonoff
• Leone Ridsdale
• Amanda Ramirez
• Barbara Maughan
• Colin Skipp
• Hilary Little
• Cathryn Lewis
• Sarah-Jayne Blakemore
• Veena Kumari
• Elizabeth Kuipers
• Rachel Jenkins
• Khalida Ismail
• Myra Hunter
• ‎Patricia Howlin
• ‎Louise Howard (psychiatrist)
• ‎Laura H. Goldstein
• ‎Philippa Garety
• ‎Rosalie Ferner
• ‎Anne Farmer
• ‎Judith Dunn
• ‎Essi Viding
• ‎Trudie Chalder
• ‎Sarah Byford
• ‎Angelica Ronald

Historical biographies

• Margaret Stefana Drower
• Elinor Wight Gardner
• Helen Elizabeth Nash

Two of these, along with my photograph, were featured on Signpost as part of promoting Misplaced Pages's improvement during Women's History Month.

I believe the broad restriction was partly in place out of concern for my welfare. My interactions on controversial LGBT topics, LGBT safety rating for Wikimania bids and Ticket:2014033110012549, show that I can handle difficult discussion on LGBT topics and BLPs without inflaming debate.

@AGK: I am sorry that you read my request so negatively. I have removed the word "blight", which I meant in a technical sense (I am used to the word being used in a legal context), this may have set the negative tone you were reading into my statement. I am presenting the relevant impact the restriction is having, which includes employment prospects. My intent is not "martyrdom", but to ignore the facts would seem odd, particularly if a concern of the committee was to place restrictions as a means to protect me, or to protect Misplaced Pages from me. --Fæ (talk) 08:38, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

@Thryduulf: Responses to questions:

1. This is Arbcom's call, I have no issue with a gradual approach if they feel it is helpful.

2. First choice would be LGBT biographies and cultural images so I can support Misplaced Pages:Wiki Loves Pride 2014 next month and may be able to renegotiate the LGBT archives proposal I had to withdraw. The contested site back in 2011 was part of a legal case, adding a link to that website without a community consensus was a serious error in judgement. I have learned a lot about how to interpret policies both here and on other projects with regard to respect and dignity of the subject in the years since then. That case is quite distinct in my mind to the projects I have mentioned above where I can support Wikimedia with relevant illustrative historic images from respected sources, or images from public events illustrating contemporary LGBT culture.

3. I suggested a refined form of words above, though I wonder if rather than spending time debating a technical form of words better to define a restriction, a probationary period for BLP editing and images relating to "sexuality" would be pragmatic, perhaps running a log of articles as evidence of review during probation in preparation of restrictions being removed.

Statement by AGK

Fae's statement implies that the committee decision is affecting his real-life employment. This does not mean the ban was unjustified, and I am not impressed he would claim otherwise (or by the tone of his statement in general). As this subtextual martyrdom is the same sort of conduct that led to Fae's ban in the first place, I question whether he has reformed. AGK 07:05, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Thryduulf

The Committee is explicitly required to act in the best interests of the English Misplaced Pages - it is not in their remit to consider how their decisions may or may not affect someone's personal life. In my opinion, this amendment request should succeed or fail solely on the basis of whether the Committee believes that removing or relaxing Fæ's restrictions will be a good or bad thing for the Encyclopaedia. Whichever they decide though, it is important that the reasoning is explained so that all parties may understand why that decision was reached. Thryduulf (talk) 18:23, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

@Fæ: Given that at this point a complete removal of your restrictions seems unlikely but a partial relaxation has not been ruled out, it might be helpful if you could offer some thoughts around the following questions:

1. If you were offered a partial relaxation, would you accept one (depending on the exact terms) or would you reject it in favour of an all-or-nothing approach?
2. If you do want a partial relaxation, is there one area you'd prefer to see relaxed first?
3. Again only relevant if you do want a partial relaxation, but if the partial relaxation doesn't take the form of narrowing the scope, is there any looser but still realistic and practical form of restriction that you would be happy with and that you think would allow you to demonstrate to the committee that you are ready to return to full editing?

I guess input from the Committee other interested people about questions 2 and 3 might be useful to. Thryduulf (talk) 08:47, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

Statement by RexxS

The question that ArbCom needs to address is how they are to manage restrictions on editors. If the intention is that certain editors are to carry restrictions forever, then be honest and say so. It is cruel to offer false hope and the editor affected at least can make a decision on whether they wish to continue editing at all under those restrictions or whether they will channel their energies into something else.

On the other hand, if Arbcom believes that no-one is irredeemable, then it would make sense to encourage whatever processes of rehabilitation are considered suitable. For infinitely banned users we have the standard offer, but I am unaware of any similar guidance for indefinitely restricted users. Were I in your position, I would be looking for clearly defined milestones that a user could aim toward in order to show that they no longer need restrictions to be able to edit productively and without undue conflict. If you are serious about bringing editors back into 'normal' editing, then you ought to be marking out timescales and expectations for targets that restricted editors could achieve to demonstrate their progress. Simply leaving them without any direction and having to guess how to demonstrate their progress is just not good enough. If that's too much work for ArbCom - and heaven knows your workload is heavy enough - then find some reliable way of delegating the tutoring of restricted editors back into full editorship. --RexxS (talk) 19:33, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

I understand ArbCom's desire to ensure that our BLPs are as free from problems as possible. I would therefore suggest in this case that someone - an ArbCom member, a clerk, or an uninvolved admin - assemble a collection of diffs of problematic BLP editing by Fae and enter into a dialogue with him on how he would avoid such problems in the future. That should give you a lead on what he must do to demonstrate that he has moved forward. Obviously, the more diffs he is given to address, the more time and effort he'll need to undertake in order to illustrate his progress. That would at least be a step forward in clearly defining the problems that need to be solved. --RexxS (talk) 19:26, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Question by Cla68

Has Fae ever fully disclosed every single one of his sock accounts to the Committee as he was required to do? If so, please tell us that he has so the community can let that matter drop. Cla68 (talk) 01:46, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Worm that Turned, acknowledged as resolved. Thank you. Cla68 (talk) 12:47, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

• Changed to an amendment request as it is asking for a past decision to be changed. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 03:23, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Arbitrator views and discussion

• Recuse. AGK 07:06, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
• No. --Floquenbeam (talk) 15:53, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
• I'm still considering this, but I will comment on RexxS's point. There are editors that I have come across since I have been on Arbcom that I would say should never have their restrictions relaxed, just as there are a small number of editors who I would be reluctant to unban under any situation, even OFFER. I will say the area I'm least keen on relaxing restrictions is on BLPs where there has been previous problematic editing.

  Now, I'm open to a relaxation, but not a removal at the moment. I will need to think about what relaxation would be appropriate - and would be interested in hearing from other committee members to see if one is even worth proposing. Worm(talk) 07:52, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

  I've had a little while to think about this and have a few ideas on a possible relaxation. However, @Fæ: I have been struggling with your request due to the way you've framed it. AGK may have used evocative language but his point is well taken - if the ban is affecting your future livelihood, then that is unfortunate but should not be relevant to the Arbcom's decisions. It should not be down to the Arbitration Committee to ensure your livelihood - if you insist on tying your income to Misplaced Pages, you make damn sure to follow the rules. Raising the issue of future employment appears to be an attempt at manipulating the committee, similar to the behaviour which landed you in the situation in the first place.

  On top of this, you've implied that you are restricted from areas that you don't appear to be. Suffrage, for example, is about gender, not sexuality - and if you cannot tell the difference between those terms, you should not be working in either area. LGBT cultural outreach should not require you to be editing the BLPs. If you are leading by example, there are many non-BLP LGBT articles. The Assyrian statue you checked with us that it was outside the scope of the restriction, we agreed. There wasn't confusion there, no Arbs suggested it was a problem.

  @Cla68: per this, Fae needed to pass the committee a list of his accounts prior to being unbanned. I, for one, was satisfied with his disclosures and consider the matter resolved. Worm(talk) 12:08, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

• If there were to be any relaxation, given that BLPs are involved and with the previous issues in the BLP area, it would have to be very, very gradual. I would be categorically opposed to a total removal of the ban, but might be willing to consider a narrow exemption for some particular purpose to gauge things, with an understanding that any problems will lead to that exemption being revoked. Seraphimblade 18:31, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
• Per the above comments, I do not think a wholesale removal of restrictions is what we want to do here but I might be persuaded to support a more gradual reduction on a trial basis. Beeblebrox (talk) 20:50, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
• I agree with the preceding comments. There is a core of restriction that should stay in place for now, but the boundaries may sweep too broadly. I have no interest at this stage in the issue raised by Cla68. Newyorkbrad (talk) 04:15, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
  • I completely agree with Worm That Turned that "sexuality" is quite different from "gender." Newyorkbrad (talk) 12:46, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Clarification request: Gun control#Gaijin42 (topic banned)

Initiated by Lightbreather (talk) at 15:32, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Case or decision affected

"https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gun_control#Gaijin42_.28topic-ban.29"

List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request:

• Lightbreather (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) (initiator)
• Gaijin42 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Scalhotrod (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Gaijin42 and Scalhotrod notified here and here.

Statement by Lightbreather

Yesterday, Scalhotrod removed a "See also" link three times from the Gun politics in the U.S. article, as documented here: Rather than then make a fourth revert, he unilaterally moved/renamed the article, as documented here: (I reverted it and asked him to talk about it first, but he moved/renamed it again.)

Within hours of these edits, this discussion was posted on Scal's talk page by Gaijin42. I don't know what the Wiki-term is for this, but it seems like coaching to me. It's not specifically about gun control, but it's related to material Scal had been warring with me over off-and-on for five days. Is this kind of behavior OK?

Statement by {other user}

Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

Arbitrator views and discussion