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User talk:SCZenz

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 0x0077BE (talk | contribs) at 17:07, 25 July 2014 (→Edit war on Alan Guth). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Revision as of 17:07, 25 July 2014 by 0x0077BE (talk | contribs) (→Edit war on Alan Guth)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)

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Alexandrov Ensemble

Hi. You have left an "according to whom?" notice on the above page, and I thought you might like an explanation. I should say first that I did not add the paragraph which you are questioning, and I am not happy about it being there (i.e. I support your edit).

So here is what I understand about the matter. I got the following information from current and former members of the Alexandrov Ensemble, via third parties. Since the 1950s when the Alexandrov Ensemble started touring non-Soviet countries, it has called itself the Red Army Choir outside the USSR/Russia for simplicity. Since 1989, another large but somewhat different group which had been founded later then the Ensemble started to call itself the Red Army Choir outside Russia. The problem was that the worldwide public frequently thought that the two choirs were the same, and various problems occurred, including concerns about competition. During the past 12 months there has been a court case about this in Moscow. People in Moscow tell me that the results of these cases are often not publicised. I think that the case has ended, but have not yet found anyone who knows the result. The only clue that I have seen is that someone has been making uncited edits about the use of the title "Red Army Choir" in WP articles connected with the Ensemble. All I have written here is hearsay, so I am not in a position to remove or correct those edits, although I am not happy about them. I hope that helps. --Storye book (talk) 16:09, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. I think the point is that assertions that can't be sourced should be, at minimum, flagged - and in some cases it's best to simply remove them. Misplaced Pages doesn't need to be in the business of claiming to give a comprehensive list of "official" Red Army Choirs at all, and it really can't be if there's no reliable source for such a thing. In any case, I'm happy to leave the "according to whom" tag up for the time being and see if someone can fill it in. Cheers, SCZenz (talk) 13:40, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
I'm entirely in agreement with that. Cheers. --Storye book (talk) 16:50, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

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Edit war on Alan Guth

Even though I think you've been broadly doing the right thing on the Alan Guth page, as I said when I first arrived there, I really, really don't think you should continue to revert or edit the page until we've worked out a consensus. This is your 3rd reversion and it's very clear there's an ongoing dispute. It doesn't matter whose version is up there right now. What's important is building consensus. Honestly, given that you were at 2R and are now at 3R, it's probably best for you to avoid editing the article entirely until the dispute is resolved. There are clearly a number of people looking at the page and discussing it in the talk page. There is no reason for you to be the one to make the edits personally, and if you refrain it will leave you above reproach. 0x0077BE 16:53, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

@0x0077BE: I disagree with your focus on process to the exclusion of the current content of pages. I also think there's a clear difference between restoring a compromise version - an edit that clearly had support from other users - and restoring the version I previously preferred. Nevertheless, thank you for your attention and hard work on this matter. -- SCZenz (talk) 16:59, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
I understand that, but I really don't think it will help. If this edit warring continues from both sides, the page will almost certainly be locked for a week or more. I honestly doubt that it will take that long to achieve a consensus, and when they lock pages, they don't pick whoever's version was best and revert it there first, they just lock it in whatever state it's in. 3RR is brightline, but has some fuzziness to it. If you continue to make edits to the page before achieving consensus, despite my ongoing warnings, an administrator would likely have cause to temporarily block both you and Holybeef. My focus on the process is for good reason - I want to depersonalize the discussion and my philosophy is something like "slow is smooth and smooth is fast". When no one's edit warring, we can resolve the content dispute without all this meta discussion about who was wrong and who was right in their behavior. I've been in exactly your position before and I saw that it got me nowhere, which is why I've been such a strong advocate of doing this right. 0x0077BE 17:07, 25 July 2014 (UTC)