Talk:Joan Rivers - Misplaced Pages

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Celebrity Apprentice - Mark Burnett personal interests

Mark Burnett, Celebrity Apprentice producer, announced a new show, "How'd You Get So Rich" http://en.wikipedia.org/How'd_You_Get_So_Rich%3F in which Joan Rivers would star, in November 2008, before winner of Celebrity Apprentice had been known. http://www.nypost.com/seven/11142008/tv/joan_rivers_ambushes_the_rich_138531.htm

Misplaced Pages visitors might be interested in this information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 871x (talk • contribs) 10:58, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Celebrity Apprentice

I think someone who is able to edit protected pages should make a sepearte section which details more about her win on Celebrity Apprenitce. It will be a huge part of her legacy and it likely introduced her to the younger generations which before only new her by cameos. It seems that it should have a more significant place then a brief sentence at the end of a larger section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ic2705 (talk • contribs) 01:59, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Gay Icon Project

In my effort to merge the now-deleted list from the article Gay icon to the Gay icons category, I have added this page to the category. I engaged in this effort as a "human script", adding everyone from the list to the category, bypassing the fact-checking stage. That is what I am relying on you to do. Please check the article Gay icon and make a judgment as to whether this person or group fits the category. By distributing this task from the regular editors of one article to the regular editors of several articles, I believe that the task of fact-checking this information can be expedited. Thank you very much. Philwelch 21:55, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

If it means anything, I don't think of her as a gay icon. Just playing a lesbian doesn't count, of course, but everything about Joan is a phony farce. Her talking up "gay rights" is just another game to her. Sure many people are like that but with Joan being so obvious she just shouldn't be included. It makes a mockery of what a true icon represents to the gay community. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.30.225.46 (talk) 18:48, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Removed colloquialism

I am appaled by the use of the horrible American colloquialism "gotten" in this article, so I have changed it to the correct synonym: "had". I also corrected other words in this sentence to make the tense consistent. Christoper P. Martin, 17:14, 20 Oct 2005 (BST)

You spelt "appalled" wrong. Love, WindFish 09:46, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

"Wrong?" I believe you meant "incorrectly". 208.104.52.233 (talk) 13:58, 21 October 2012 (UTC)J271

American colloquialism? I hear "got" and "gotten" many times in British films.Lestrade 16:55, 24 May 2007 (UTC)Lestrade

SPELT??? I believe you meant "spelled," WindFish.

Unsourced Stein statement

I don't know how to add them so they look nice so here you go, please someone add this http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DEED6163FF935A35751C1A961948260

Joan's albums and books

Joan Rivers' comedy album which was released in the 1980s was not called "Can We Talk?" It was called "What Becomes a Semi-Legend Most?". Her first album, released in the late 60s or early 70s, was called "The Next to Last Joan Rivers Album"

The Book Enter Talking was released in the 1980s, not the 1990s. It came before Bouncing Back. It does not mention Edgar's Suicide, as that had not occurred when the book was written. Enter Talking was released either shortly before or soon after the premiere of "The Late Show." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.193.250.114 (talk) 03:31, 22 January 2007 (UTC).

Didn't she direct a film?

Rabbit Test (film)? shouldn't it be on the page? Stimpy9337 19:19, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Bowling for Soup

Could I have a reference for this:

She also insulted Chris Burney, the basist in Bowling for Soup. He called him a "fatso" and called his band "Bowling for Crap". Later that year she voted Bowling for Soup as the worst dressed musicians. The band took this very seriously and bought an amp saying "f**k you Joan. This has also been mentioned in the Jimmy Kimmel show.

Thanks JameiLei 20:52, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Even without a reference, is this really notable? Rivers' schtick is insulting celebrities, there's not much purpose (or encyclopedic value) in enumerating individual examples, I'd have thought. 18:14, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

What does this sentence mean?

The band took this very seriously and bought an amp saying "fuck you Joan". --Filll (talk) 04:22, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Very strange

Uploaded new picture on the Fringe page, but for some reason on here it's showing as a stretched version of the old one... Adaircairell (talk) 12:56, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Cystic fibrosis

"Rivers is the National Chairwoman of the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation" - is there a particular reason why? Does she have some personal experience of the condition? If so, I feel this article would benefit from some elaboration Dom Kaos (talk) 21:10, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Are there any other examples of civic involvement? Any charitable giving or volunteerism? Thanks, 69.118.112.224 (talk) 22:04, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

The Apprentice

I think it goes without saying that things like calling Annie Duke a Nazi and "a string of verbal abuse" violate NPOV policy. However, the show's website does list Joan Rivers as "active". She may be back this Sunday, or (given the show's history) return in the final episode to help Clint Black/Jesse James beat Duke. Please keep an eye out for these kinds of edits in my wiki-absence. Recognizance (talk) 15:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

With respect to your comment:

"I think it goes without saying that things like calling Annie Duke a Nazi and "a string of verbal abuse" violate NPOV policy."

I think you are confused as to what NPOV means. It doesn't mean not recording distasteful things. That those things happened are incontrovertible and were witnessed by millions. Any sentence which says Joan Rivers compared Annie Duke to Hitler is merely a statement of an incontrovertible fact. You may argue about the neutrality of the language, but not the fact itself, and if so, please feel free to put something together on the Nazi comment and Joan river's other outbursts and insults in your own words.

Her words may have been may be controversial, distasteful and something that Joan Rivers wish she never said. But there is no doubt that she said those words. And they are worthy of recording for exactly that reason. The living person policy exists to shield people from heresay and unverifiable claims. This is not the case here. Her words are recorded for posterity in other media, and should also be recorded here. However continual editing trying to hide or deny that she actually said the words violates the NPOV policy. It's a crime against truth and equally biased editing to delete material with the sole purpose being to push the existence of an event under the carpet. I'd encourage you to become part of the solution rather than as you currently are, part of the problem. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.247.41.129 (talk) 22:22, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

For your reference:

"If an allegation or incident is notable, relevant, and well-documented by reliable published sources, it belongs in the article—even if it's negative and the subject dislikes all mention of it. If it is not documented by reliable third-party sources, leave it out." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.247.41.129 (talk) 22:30, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Paragraphing

I find that the current paragraphing in the article makes it difficult to read. For instance, the last paragraph in the 2000s goes from December 2007 up to last week! There are simple rules for paragraphing that can be found in sources from Strunk & White to Misplaced Pages. I would like to go through this article and re-parapraph so that separate concepts are kept separately. For instance, in the 2000s, the information about The Celebrity Apprentice should be in its own paragraph. Any thoughts before I begin re-paragraphing? SpikeToronto (talk) 18:01, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Celebrity Apprentice

{{editsemiprotected}} Rivers later returned to the show and on May 10, 2009, she was selected by Donald Trump as the Celebrity Apprentice, beating out Annie Duke for the position.

Not done: Could you be more specific? I couldn't find an obvious spot in the article to place that sentence. Celestra (talk) 14:50, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Another cameo

She appeared at Curb Your Enthusiasmfirst 23 September 2002 (Season 3, Episode 2. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.20.24.54 (talk) 00:39, 15 May 2009 (UTC) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0551400/fullcredits#cast

"Real" name

According to this article: http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en (and many others about this indecent), the name on her passport is Joan Rosenberg. I assume that this would be her "real" legal name at the moment. Proxy User (talk) 04:41, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Or more so, as a Jew, even "Joan Rosenberg" is a misnomer. I would like to know her real name, her real Jewish name. That is the only one that counts as real.

Aesthetic surgery

Oviously the woman has had quite a lot, any log behind it? Jackpot Den 01:20, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

It's practically what she's famous for (having lots of plastic surgery), why isn't there anything on it in her article? CTVampSlayer 11:33, 9 October 2006.

So that's why she looks like an alien? Spooky. 77.118.240.45 09:58, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

There should be some mention of it here in the article regardless of how obvious recent images of her make it (damn, I hope I look that good when I'm 75), people who are nearly notorious for their appearance are required to have some information on the subject in their article. K.H (talk) 07:39, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Ok, how could this be a B-class article with no mention of the surgery? Time for a reassessment, I think. Viriditas (talk) 04:29, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Agreed, that's actually what I came to this page looking for, information about her plastic surgeries. There must be some mention. Misplaced Pages fail here. Abergeman (talk) 06:03, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

Pennsylvania Film studio started by Joan and husband

Sometime between the late seventies and the end of the eighties, Joan and her husband started a film studio in Pennsyvania. It was on the Philadelphia news but not in Philadelphis. It later failed. I don't know if any films were made there. Nosoy2010 (talk) 02:07, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Age

She is now 81 years old. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.237.34.211 (talk) 21:47, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Because it would be controversial

I'd like to propose this on the talk first, rather than boldly do it, because it would be controversial:

I'd like to remove her gross jokes out of this entry. For example, in Criticism it reads:

Rivers has been criticized on numerous occasions for making jokes that are either insensitive or about serious matters. In 2013 she came under heavy criticism for making jokes about Adele's weight. Follow the birth of Adele's son in 2012, Rivers tweeted "Congratulations to Adele on the birth of her 68 pound 8 ounces bouncing baby boy." Rivers continued to make jokes about her weight following her Academy Award win for "Skyfall". Rivers refused to apologize.

I would make a motion that it be changed to the following

Rivers has been criticized on numerous occasions for making jokes that are either insensitive or about serious matters. In 2013 she came under heavy criticism for makes jokes about Adele's weight. Rivers continued to make jokes about her weight following her Academy Award win for "Skyfall". Rivers refused to apologize.

Essentially, clean up the controversy section so that it just states that facts, in the same way as I've demonstrated above, so that we have the facts, but don't have to repeat her vile remarks. They're unnecessary and , while they don't violate any specific policy, I would consider it both common sense and IAR in that removing her vile remarks would keep to the facts, and improve wikipedia by not having her verbal pollution in the article. Reprinting her remarks are not needed for encyclopedic tone, nor for fair reporting of the facts. I'll wait and see what consensus says before taking any action. And for the record, I'm definetly biased against Joan Rivers (yet another reason not to act, but ask first :) ) Kosh Vorlon 21:16, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Manually editing the date above to keep it out of archive for a while. I want as long of a time as possible for people to see this and make their consensus known. Kosh Vorlon 11:11, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

As a drive-by, I agree that adding isolated jokes doesn't work well for this, or most comedian bios. But I also feel it's almost silly to note that some of her jokes are "controversial" or insensitive about serious matters, since the essence of most comedy is based on making fun of "serious" events or issues. Rivers made a hundred jokes about Elizabeth Taylor's rapid weight gain, and she typically made more fun of her own dress and weight. --Light show (talk) 20:06, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

I don't even think that much detail is needed. The types of things Rivers made jokes about can be mentioned, but the specific details of the jokes and comments (for example, mentioning Adele by name) are not needed. I also think it is silly to mention that she made jokes about serious matters. Many comedians make jokes about serious matters. CorinneSD (talk) 22:16, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Death

Word is out that Rivers has suffered cardiac arrest, but there's already a death date in this article without any citation or other further reference. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.122.9.74 (talk) 17:42, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

That was vandalism, or possibly an edit made by someone who had been given false information. Whatever the case, it's been reverted.--Cojovo (talk) 17:20, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Just for the record, there has been a lot of controversy on the Jahi McMath article about "date of death", so if an editor is in California, they may actually have Joan River's date of death as the date she became brain-dead, or went on machines. River's status also illustrates the vast difference between how suffering brain-death-(if that is what Rivers had when she sustained cardiac arrest) is treated differently in states like NY and NJ compared to California. Any ref.to "hoping for a miracle" etc. was labeled as "fringe" and roundly abused in the McMath case, and even the media has a different "spin" http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2738687/Joan-Rivers-family-face-agonizing-decision-not-turn-life-support-machine-legendary-comic-fights-life.html when someone is "not quite dead" in NYC.24.0.133.234 (talk) 17:57, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Johnny Carson

Johnny Carson was not the first late night talk show host nor did he pioneer the format. Steve Allen and Jack Paar were most responsible for developing the format and also very successful at it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.188.25.68 (talk) 03:38, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

This article does not make either claim. Perhaps you intended to comment upon the article Johnny Carson? Dwpaul 03:46, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Or, perhaps s/he intended to comment upon the article Joan Rivers, in which the second paragraph of the lead begins: "Rivers first came to prominence in 1965 as a guest on The Tonight Show, the first of the late-night chat programs with interviews and comedy, pioneered by Johnny Carson, whom she acknowledges as her mentor." 2600:1006:B103:1681:B945:D20A:9451:85D (talk) 18:12, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

The article also says that Rivers was the first woman to have a talk show, which is not true either. That would probably be Della Reese, though I think that show was syndicated. Perhaps the article means to say "talk show on a major network." Richard K. Carson (talk) 23:06, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

Gaza bombing controversy

Nothing on this neither in the whole article:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2719688/Youre-dead-deserve-dead-started-Joan-Rivers-astonishing-attack-stupid-Palestinians.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.16.175.251 (talk) 20:38, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

This information should be included as there has been petitions for her not to be let into the UK given her statements supporting genocide.

Semi-protected edit request on 1 September 2014

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Please add the following information that was previously in the article but someone has removed it. This is important information that was reported in the mainstream media. To be added at the end of the "2000-present" chapter citing current events. Thank you:

"In July 2014, Rivers was asked by a reporter, “Do you think the United States will see the first gay president or the first woman president?” She replied, "We already have it with Obama, so let’s just calm down.” She further added, “You know Michelle is a tranny.” The cameraman responded, “I’m sorry, she’s a what?” “A transgender. We all know,” Rivers said before walking away." Source: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/joan-rivers-calls-president-obama-716738

Seeker79dreamer (talk) 23:16, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Not done - this is not "important information" - it is total trivia, which is why it was, correctly, deleted before. - Arjayay (talk) 08:24, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

WP should not promote tabloid journalism

Part of the article is digressing into sensationalism, adding tabloid-style statements about some jokes or her personal opinions outside her professional capacity. The article should really try to refocus on what she's notable for, as the lead sentence makes clear: Joan Rivers is an American actress, comedian, writer, producer and television host, best known for her stand-up comedy.

Rivers did not claim to be a doctor or dietitian, so her personal opinion jokes about other celebrity's excessive weight or their underweight status, should not become a separate topic of criticism. The same is true of other particular jokes, which don't become encyclopedic simply because a tabloid somewhere quotes an unhappy subject of the joke. Since she was noted for making fun of celebrities, along with herself, a few examples of her style are enough to make the point. If her general style of humor was either loved or criticized by some, that's objective and could be included. But making humor out of events or people, like she did in "Joan Rivers in the UK", was her style.

Nor did she ever claim to be a politician, although like many comedians, politics and politicians were a subject of their humor. But a reporter stopping a celebrity in a public place to get their personal opinion about world events, then WP adding those opinions, is even more non-encyclopedic and simply promotes the same tabloid style. Her airport-terminal comments about the Gaza war, which some tabloids called a "rant," resembled a "set-up" by news-hungry reporters looking for headlines. The commentary about it is clearly non-neutral in any case, since it takes a phrase out of context by excluding her other comments: The Palestinians… you cannot throw rockets, and not expect people to defend themselves. . . don’t put your goddamn things in private homes! I’m sorry, don’t you dare put weapons stashes in private homes!. But none of that kind of interview material really belongs anywhere except on tabloid media. Like the other stuff, it's trivia, non-neutral, off-topic and irrelevant to her professional notability. --Light show (talk) 17:48, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

Removal of referenced info regarding Palestinians

I believe this referenced info about her comments regarding Palestinians should not have been removed in a bold edit by User:Light show: here. I added a quote from Joan Rivers, demonstrating she felt it was significant enough to address the controversy, which happened only a few days before her death. It is not "tabloid journalism"; the point is not that she was interviewed by TMZ, but that it made international news and she deemed it significant enough to apologize and explain herself. The incident also led to a Twitter hashtag trend at the time of her death, as the Variety article shows. I believe the removal of this fully sourced info comes close to censorship and POV, as it may be an attempt to remove referenced information which does not paint her "in the best light." By the way, I also added some referenced info about her extensive philanthropic work, which shows that my edits are balanced. An encyclopedia should be fair and balanced.Zigzig20s (talk) 19:10, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

The removal of the selectively quoted material was done with five rationales, and a link to a preexisting talk section explaining. You should just reply to the actual reasons first, in the earlier section. You should also read sources before adding them, as she neither "apologized," as you just stated, or "retracted" her comments, as you misstated in the edits. The only "controversy" about her comments is your apparent obsession with posting and reposting it without responding to the list of reasons for excluding it, trying to soapbox your opinions of what is encyclopedic. Nor does this have anything to do with painting her in the best light, but more in not putting WP in a bad light, by becoming a tabloid. --Light show (talk) 20:29, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

I don't like your aggressive tone; it is inappropriate. What are your five rationales?Zigzig20s (talk) 21:16, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Read the first three paragraphs under the major heading above. Dwpaul 21:21, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

And your accusations that another editor, who you identified by username, was engaging in censorship and/or selective editing to flatter the subject were equally inappropriate and might have been expected to solicit an aggressive response. Please keep your comments to content, not other editors, and assume good faith. Dwpaul 21:26, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I think you're completely wrong. It's not sensationalistic. The info is referenced; it was a major worldwide news story just before her death; see the Variety article. I believe it should be added back. (And the way you moved my comment to this section, under "tabloid," is appropriate. I insist that this Palestinians news story is NOT tabloid fodder.) What do others think? It should be added back to make sure the article is fair and balanced, shouldn't it?Zigzig20s (talk) 21:32, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

As you know, the rationales were given in the edit, with links to others. As a notable comedian, not a politician, including a list of 1,000 of her jokes would be more relevant than her walking-through-an-airport rant, captured by a stalking papparazzi looking for a story. --Light show (talk) 21:42, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

I think you should let the sources speak for themselves. Her article is not just a list of jokes; it presents her entire life. So this important last chapter should not be excluded!Zigzig20s (talk) 22:03, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

When you let the sources speak for themselves as opposed to your opinion, you can see that this is not just about a gotcha moment from TMZ. It is about her reaction to it and the worldwide resonance this had just before her death. This is why I believe it should not be removed or censored.Zigzig20s (talk) 01:16, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

I am waiting for a convincing reason for not re-inserting this referenced info, based on letting the sources speak for themselves, not just an opinion...Zigzig20s (talk) 04:00, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

Read, don't wait. There are a half-dozen guideline reasons already mentioned, none of which you've responded to. Add to those the basic fact that WP is not a newspaper. --Light show (talk) 04:34, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

It has become a very significant part of her life. It's everywhere except on Misplaced Pages--that makes it sound very whitewashed and akin to censorship! This biography should reflect her entire character, not just puffery. It is directly connected to her support of Israel and criticism of public figures who don't support Israel (which an editor tried to remove as well, even though it is referenced...). But please list those "half-dozen guideline reasons." Do you have six succinct reasons to give?Zigzig20s (talk) 06:19, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

Do you want me to copy and paste what's been said above so you don't have to scroll? Light show (talk) 07:00, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

It sounds like confused ramblings, so I would like six succinct reasons...1) 2) 3) 4) 5) 6). Please?Zigzig20s (talk) 07:27, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

No problem. I'll list them later, although I can't believe you'd call any of the above totally clear explanations, "confused ramblings." But after I post guidelines, assuming you're a newbie and don't already know them, it'll be your turn, to find even one reason to include it. So far, you've given not a single logical reason besides your personal opinion: saying it was "a very significant part of her life," is ridiculous. Saying it's everywhere, meaning some celebrity tabloids, is wrong. Claiming the article itself is just "puffery" means you haven't read it. Insisting that keeping non-encyclopedic paparazzi junk off WP is "censorship" is also wrong.

And your quote and its description is also totally wrong: you call her quotation a "retraction," when she's essentially criticizing the press for posting an out-of-context quote to sell papers. Her actual statements and video are here. And even if her statement was encyclopedic and relevant to the bio, you'd have to quote the entire actual statement to keep it in full context. Is that what you'd prefer, a 400-word transcript posted to remain neutral? Think about it.--Light show (talk) 08:01, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

I'm just waiting for your six reasons. No need to change the subject and attack me, etc. Variety is a very good source...perhaps the most prominent entertainment publication. Btw, I think the statement was posted by her on her official Facebook account; it was a written statement; it was re-published in the Variety article. But we are waiting for your six reasons, as that is what was asked of you...Zigzig20s (talk) 08:15, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

The fact that you're casually ignoring your own errors and misstatements, brushing them off with "I'm waiting," means you're not serious. Suggest you now read and reply to what's been posted instead of waiting, since the game's over. --Light show (talk) 08:29, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

Do you or do you not have "half a dozen rationales" for not including the referenced info that you removed? If you don't, I am sorry, but I have to add it back. If you do, please present them here. Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 08:56, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

Your latest repeated insertion was reverted. You have failed to respond to any of the guidelines mentioned above explaining why the quote should not be included. Your explanation that those reasons with linked guidelines are "confused ramblings" is nonsense. If you are so desperate to have this out-of-context "bad light" quote included, you will need to respond to those before edit warring. --Light show (talk) 18:44, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

I'm glad you found a buddy to cover for you, but this will go to ANI if you can't get over your erroneous edits. --Light show (talk) 19:02, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

I support keeping Zigzig20's edits to Joan Rivers in regards to her Palestinian comments. Editors on Misplaced Pages reserve the right to include critical comments that have been news worthy and River's comments are newsworthy and were a critical part of her beliefs. This doesn't make it tabloid journalism nor does it smear her name/legacy. It's simply about including unbiased fact in her profile. She was also very passionate about lots of causes, her being Jewish. This part of her life is relevant to her legacy. I support restoring and/or maintaining Zigzig20's edits. Kingslove2013 (talk) 13:04, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

She's Alive

Joan Rivers is still alive as far as I can tell from news outlets. The "recent death" tag is premature. Upjav (talk) 19:13, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

There seem to be some sources saying she died today.

Cheers, Dawn Bard (talk) 19:16, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

When I looked ~10 minutes ago, it was mixed. Thank you for correcting me. Rest in Peace, Joan. Upjav (talk) 19:23, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 September 2014

No idea how to do this properly. Career section, 1980s-1990s, 8th paragraph, it says "which ran for five years and won her an Daytime Emmy in 1990", to be changed to "...won her a Daytime Emmy" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Foodovision (talk • contribs) 23:04, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

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Joan Rivers Died. RIPJoanRivers (talk) 19:19, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

~~There is insufficient evidence of her death, and recent media coverage shows that she is alive. Also, your username seems fishy, bud.~~ Upjav (talk) 19:21, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

I had conducted my search just before it was confirmed. Upjav (talk) 19:24, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

Well someone blanked out most of this page before it was protected. Some admin should restore it. I can't. Web Warlock (talk) 19:28, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

nevermind. been done. Web Warlock (talk) 19:30, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

RIP Joan Rivers.-- Theda 19:50, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

Lede paragraph name and date

@Taram:: It's very common for articles to start with a person's legal name, followed by the name they're known as. Just a few examples: Bill Clinton, Charlie Sheen, Chuck D, Ice-T. I'm surprised that someone with 1000+ edits would not have noticed this. Also, why have the valid citations twice been removed from Joan Rivers' birthdate, death date, and real name? There is no guideline on Misplaced Pages to support the claim that we "do not need a citation for date of death" as one of your edit summaries said, and certainly no guideline to say that they should be removed once placed. (There is WP:OVERCITE but that's for cases where the number of citations in overwhelming in one place.) Misplaced Pages is intended to have a long-term view, not momentary ideas of what is obvious and what is not; a person 5 or 30 years from now will not be sitting with a TV behind them hearing about Joan Rivers' death like this afternoon; they should have sources that are already verifiable and reliable and not have to guess at whether the text was verified by anyone else, or what Google (or whatever is around at the time) might show. --Closeapple (talk) 20:10, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Closeapple (talk)Taram (talk) 00:19, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

The death date is sufficiently cited in the death section, thus making any cites in the lede redundant. Connormah (talk) 21:08, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

For sure, it was even the lead story on the national news, tonight. The date of death is currently well within comon knowledge. Thank you again!Taram (talk) 00:14, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

BTW: And whoever wrote "Rosenberg née Molinsky" in the lede did a fine job of fixing a grammatical/historical problem. Thanks to that editor, too!Taram (talk) 00:19, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Here we go with the quotes

User:LightShow seems to make a habit of filling articles of recently dead celebrities with all kinds of third-party quotes from biographers and people sometimes only incidentally connected to the subject, despite longstanding ways in which Misplaced Pages biographical articles are written without overquoting. The user did a similar overhaul to Robin Williams, making the article much poorer, in my opinion. Biographical articles "treated" in "this way" start to look like a Zagat guide. Moncrief (talk) 21:49, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

If you think some would be better paraphrased, please point them out. --Light show (talk) 22:04, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 September 2014

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Pro Hamas to Pro Palestine 188.161.13.44 (talk) 11:54, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Not done The phrase "pro Hamas" does not appear in the article. Where it discusses Rivers's criticism of those who have supported Hamas, that is what the cited source has said. Therefore, we should not change the meaning to say that she criticized all who have supported Palestine. Dwpaul 12:34, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

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