Misplaced Pages

suzerainty

So many times you have had to correct me, it is nice to just once return the favor. ;-) Dejvid 18:14, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

measurements

hi shallot, i thought i could ask you or one of your friends a somewhat technical question. what units of measurement does croatia use? i assume they use metric, but what about for pressure? does the country use bar or kpa? or something else? do you know where i can find more info on the subject? thanks, jeff

Removing comments

OK, I removed my comments only. Pleased?--Ђорђе Д. Божовић 11:21, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

Minor edits to History of Croatia

Dobro večer. My apologies for having introduced errors whilst I was making all those edits to History of Croatia and thank you for having corrected me :o) — OwenBlacker 19:43, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

Paddy Ashdown

Dear Joy - regardnig my removal of the last sentence from the article on Paddy Ashdown- see my comments in the discussion about the article - MarianL 08:21, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

TEmplate:catneeded

A very very good and needed idea, just would it be possible to get some bot going over pages and adding this template? There is Perle and some other. Because I doubt that anybody will manually add it since it's much easier to add a category itself.

Stubs, xxxx births or deaths, 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica, and bunch of other clean up & maintenance categories should not be counted as valid categories. Renata3 11:20, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

History of Dalmatia

Hi Joy,

why did you returned the lines that aren't supposed to be there?

Eastern Orthodoxy came in Dalmatian Hinterland in 18th century, with fugitives from Ottoman territory. But if you count from the Great Shism, Eastern Orthodoxy was at first in the cities. Byzantium. Hinterland itself was divided between Roman Catholicism and Bogomil creed, when the latter appeared.

Dalmatian city-states fell back for support to anyone who was willing to "help", when necessary. Not just Venice.

Then, there is no need for the line "Dalmatia never attained a political or racial unity and never formed as a nation...". Why it should? Neither Pannonia attained it, but nobody mentions it. Dalmatia always was just an administrative region, which got its name after the Illyric tribe that lived only on the part of that territory.

Sincerely, Kubura 15:02, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

bash shell disambiguate in Unix

Joy, I put in the proper link to the bash shell in the Unix article. The original one was a redlink. Please test the link before you revert my edit. If you think it is better, maybe we should create a redirect from Bash shell to Bash. Gbeeker 15:23, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Umm, you broke the link by adding " shell". The edit was unnecessary at the time when it was done, so I had rolled it back. Someone created that redirect in the meantime. --Joy 20:50, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for replying. I actually removed the ' shell' to fix the redlink. I suspect that the redirect may have been in flux when you did the revert. No harm done, it all looks good now. Gbeeker 21:18, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

I saw the discussion about vandalism (Request for Comment) and the medeival principalities

Wait a moment.

Didn't the Christian Church split after 1000 AD?

So how do you distinguish a Serb from a Croat before then? --VKokielov 18:15, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Of course. But then the Serbs should annex Lusatia.  ;) --VKokielov 23:49, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Croatian "RSK" census

Idi vidi http://hr.wikipedia.org/Talk:Republika_Srpska_Krajina, "Netko nema pojma..." Mir Harven 22:08, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

Also, this 450+ k population figure from 1992 to 1995 is laughable. They (Martić, Babić, Hadžić,..whoever) inflated those figures to boost a morale. The numner was from 200 k to 250 k in all four sectors. http://hr.wikipedia.org/Republika_Srpska_Krajina#Procjene_broja_stanovnikaMir Harven 08:59, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

• • The official census held in the spring of 1991, just before the war began, showed that 555,540 people lived in the territory of what became the RSK. Of these,

   * 331,619 (59,7%) were Serbs,
   * 168,026 (30,2%) were Croats and
   * 55,895 (10,1%) were other Yugoslavs, Muslims, Hungarians, Slovaks etc.

• • The increase in the Krajina's Serbian population was almost certainly due to Serbs from other parts of Croatia moving to the Krajina to escape ethnic tensions in their home regions.

• • Where did you get these fairy tale figures from ? There is the official Croatian census published in numerous books- and it is given at the second table on the page. The figures (300 + k Serbs etc.) you put here are a pure fiction. If needs, I'll put the whole stuff online. Just as ICTY sloppy rubbish isn't enough. Geez...Mir Harven 14:24, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

• • • Then, delete the trash. Why endorse someone's crappy math ? Mir Harven 16:44, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Unprotected articles

Just letting you know that I unprotected lots of Serbia and Bosnia related articles that I see you protected back in July. They had been protected for over a month, and I feel that's too long for a wiki. I also removed their listing from Misplaced Pages:Protected page. Let's hope this long period of protection has helped things to calm down. Shanes 23:10, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Oh, well

My dear friend Joy-shallot, I had noticed that someone has re-arranged the info in the Croatia article, percisly not to include the Serbian history (twice Dubrovnik) as it says that it was originally Byzantine (Roman) and Venetian. Between those two stood ", Serbian" before as it became a part of Duklja before Venetia. I scrolled across the Croatian Dubrovnik-concerning websites, and I noticed that not only the Serbian perios is completly missing, but they mentioned tw times in the history when Dubrovnik was frontiering a Croatian state (besides the fact that it was engulphed by a Serbian nearly all the time). I don't mind it, I got very much used to being discriminated just for being an Orthodox, as I spent the last three weeks in Croatia. I can't tell you in short notice my experiences, but I asure you, you won't like them. Everywhere where I turned I saw only hatred, further destruction and etc. I will write to you, if that isn't a problem, as I need an opinion of someone... well... of a Croat (you made me say this you know, I was going to say Catholic Yugoslav). I noticed that in the history of Croatia, it says: "The civilian population fled the areas of armed conflict en masse: generally speaking, thousands of Croats moved away from the Bosnian and Serbian border, while thousands of Serbs moved towards it." and at several other cases it keeps forcing the reader to understand that Serbs are evil. It does not mention the hundreds of thousands of Serbs that abandoned their homes, forcibly; nor the thousands killing in 1991-1992 in Osijek, during Bljesak and Oluja, and after the war; in the 1995-1997 turmoil years which saw major ethnic cleansing (the Croatian government calls it "criminal acts"). That sentence I quotted makes the reader think that the Frontier had only a minority of Serbs and that only later "thousands moved in". When in fact, it happenned with the cities like Knin: tens of thousands of Serbs moved out, tens of thousands of Croats moved-in. I also noticed it says that Alexander was assassinated by radical groups (evading to mention the Ustaša and VMRO separatist movements) P. S. I discovered that the Bosnian and Frontier Serbs were generally called Četniks and Croats Ustašas; that is the reason why I referred to "Ustasha war plans". Oh, and, don't be mad at me, by I noticed that you rather make me proove things are NOT true, rather that making me proove that they are. And I would like a mention of Croatia's gigantic refugee problem in it's article (if that is even possible). 212.62.33.4 10:09, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

You can respond to me in here. HolyRomanEmperor 16:49, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Could you please look at http://www.hrvatskiustaskipokret.com and the links there? Send me a comment, will you? HolyRomanEmperor 17:19, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Višegrad

I'm glad to have your input on the page for Višegrad. I've read Andrić's The Bridge on the Drina and am looking for a more extensive history of Višegrad. - Ghidra99

Sheshelj

I'm not so worried about Sheshelj as I am worried about whether it is wise to talk about rhotacism and the quality of oration. Especially when his rhotacism has naught to do with the dirt of his character. --VKokielov 15:54, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Archive???

Did you ever think of archiving this page? You could use User talk:Joy/Archive 1 or something similar. Your talk page is quite long and takes a while to load for some of our slower users. Just thought I'd mention it. --Lord Voldemort 17:22, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

I figured you would know how. I was just trying to be helpful to those of us with really slow computers. Pardon my intrusion. My humblest apologies if I offended you. --Lord Voldemort 21:05, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

May I ask why? I won't post about this topic again on your talk page, since it's so long already, and there is no need for me to make it any longer than it has to be. --Lord Voldemort 21:14, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Class action against the vatican

Well done , and I am very glad you are so multi-lingual . It is strange co-incidence that you seem to have done this work at this moment in time . I just re-highlighted Bill Dorich on the BXVI page . I am having a lot of trouble from Str1977 , ever since I entered this organ . I strongly suggest you police the other language versions to be able to see how deep the apologia goes . Of course my appearance here alerts him and others to your presence, but then they will see what you have done anyway . This is all very sad and dirty , but it always was . Oh dear . Famekeeper 22:13, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

I can only suggest you read the discussion page on BXVI and follow my sordid history . I have a head-ache . it takes me a thousand lines of fighting to get one line of text in here . I am deeply peeved at what has to be church intervention - either that or I am mentally ill . I had a life , work . I need help , but not for an illness , unless WP is an illness . I get Str reverting me any time I do anything controversial , and Robert McClenon more recently . I pretty much have had to abandon honest attempts at editing and just remain arguing on discussions. Mind you , I can see their point of view .If I ever do write anything new, its like a race before the whirlwind sweeps it away . They are shameless- but appear superficially quite reasonable , until you see what they achieve . G'night.Famekeeper

ICE

Hi, I hadn't realized that you had made a revert on redirecting this. Could you see my comments on Talk:ICE (disambiguation)? Zoe 23:38, August 24, 2005 (UTC)

Re: reparation demands

"As far as calling it gigantic, I don't think that's accurate, because many of the refugees have waived their status as such - there were only about 14,000 house reparation demands registered with the government at the peak, which would imply that a large part of those 140,000 Croatian Serbs in Serbia never filled out the forms. Well, either that or all families had ten members, which is impossible." you said. I find that I am very insulted by that claims. Most of the Serbs can't go back because the Croatian government won't pay the damages. We have been fighting that Croatia repairs our two hous for that past eight years; sending formulars for 16 times alltogether. And we hired a lawyer to get us back our apartment in Karlovac. He was a Serb; and everyone called him a "četnik lawyer" so we had to find a Croat. You see, they said that they won't return it because we weren't there for six months reporting! (we couldn't because of the war)The lawyer said that we have a case because the man moved into our apartment two months after we left. But after eight years of endless payments to the lawyer and struggle we simply couldn't afford it and have noticed that the Croatian government actually does not want to ever return our things. So, while my cousins are here dying on the streets of hunger (Serbia is a very poor country when it reffers to refugees) because they spent their last nickels to send those forms, with only a tiny hand actually returning, I find you very offendive :(.

It is me, Sargeras, reffer to me this way. HolyRomanEmperor 12:48, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Let me hear yo out

Here we go; please, do read carefully this, as I want to hear your comments. I was very surprised when I payed a visit to our grandfatherland; as, unlike I expected, the nationalistic ferver GREW in the past few years; not only amongst catholic Croatians (Croats), but Orthodox Croatians (Serbs, if you MUST) too.

1. I was very dissapointed when I saw Sanja's Top Show several years ago (I really liked the Yugoslav New Phosils group); as it's sole purpose was Croatian propaganda. Although, the situation is much clearer there as it is now a rather amsing show. I guess those Germans that bought RTL have finally saw it with their own eyes.

2. The Show: "Oluja nad olujama" (the Storm of storms). I have noticed that the show-man kept repeating: "...after the Serbs (generalizing again) have committed the greatest crime since World War II..." which is at least a little exaggarating. Some time, in the middle of the show, a general said that there were indeed cases during and after the Storm Operation (just after that French official proclaimed that the Storm was a genocide operation, whether planned or not) like Varivode. I can't even BELIEVE that he LIED ON NATIONAL TELEVISION. Guess from which village I was watching that show..... I will give you a hint... Varivode. I have been visiting my grandparents there for the past 5 years, and I asure you; NO ONE WENT TO PRISON FOR THE CRIMES. There were several accusations, but the suspected were released. The entire village was torched and the few survivors had been brutally killed, except one, a cousin of mine, Marija Dukić. She had witnessed the slaughter and wonderously escaped certain death. When she fled to the main road, she hitchhiked a ride. The driver asked her: "How many of you (Serbs) are still down there?" she answered: "well, around 15." She lied; everyone was killed in the village. She lied because she KNEW that they would either leave her or dump her somewhere in the wilderness. The driver then added: "...and you Serbs are even complaining that we aren't dressing you nicely..." Then someone compared the rockets launched at Zagreb with the Germans' V1 and V2. But then I saw president Franjo Tuđman, of whome there is no doubt that he was a criminal, and heard his nationalistic, and even for Croats exaggerated testimonies; like, after greeting the capture of Knin, the expulsionof Serbs from it and the fall of Krajina. he said something like: "...it was a croatian uprising, in the spirit of the Croatian people of Croatia; a true Croatian spiritual thing. " etc. Then I saw several recordings of Croatian soldiers spreading "justice" and "rightiousness". Then they interviewed a Croatian citizen in a town that was just released. He said: "My wife is Serb, she ran off with the other Serbs when your forces invaded..." and the soldier-journalist said: "WHAT? She LEFT YOU?!?" Then another journalist was interviewing an old lady that lived with the Serbs in the former Frontier (Krajina) about the worthlessness of the serbian valute "dinar". The lady said "I don't know; I can't remember" for at least five times and the journalist kept harrassing her. When the Croatian populace started to talk about the "orthodox returners" and them not returning mostly; the recordings were stopped.

3. Then there was a football player of the Croatian representation when it played against Brazil. He said: "When God helped us before, outside the playground, why shouldn't he help us here?"

4. I have noticed that in general, Croat- was being forced until recently. For instance, during the sport competitions, it was said: "...dragi Hrvati i Hrvatice..." but that is not today like it, because Croatia has far too many tourists to use that kind of propaganda.

5. Then I noticed in the programme, when te TV show "Jelena" was announced, in its short description it said: "serbian show" when at other places it reffers to drama, humoristic show... etc.

6. Everything Serb in Croatia is generally, minimized. Nikola Tesla is surely, accepted, but they now ask that Belgrade returns them his remains. The ethnicity which Croatia (almost generaly) rejected now wants a member of their society. Then, on several occasions reffering to the Croatian national anthem "Lijepa naša", it was said that it was written by an Orthodox Croat; even though there is a slight possibility that that even may be true, it is a well-known fact that he concidered himself a Serb Frontiersman. I hate when I see declarations like "Croatia will be PURE of Serbs" and hear "Lijepa naša" in the background. When there was a show about the famous agent 007, Bond, James Bond, it was said that the writer was insipired by a friend of his, unknown exactly who he was. We all know that it was an agent in the British Intelligence that was, well, if you will, a Serb.

7. Then there is the Branimir Glavaš situation. That evil-doer and cold-blooded killer is today a wealthy and appealed Croatian polititian. He commanded the BOB (Braminir's Osijak Battle-unit) which did terrible acts of torture and liquidation in Slavonia. It is a well-known fact that he not only KNEW about the ethnic cleansing, but ORDERED it as well. Đorđe Petrović and Čedomir Vučković were captured, beaten, forced to drink liquid acid and eliminated, later. There were places in the Dubrovnik street were these acts were covertly committed, one including a private house. The first witness was Josip Fehir who was sent to work for Glavaš by his own father, Krunoslav Fehir. Josip was a witness-under-protection. His identity was hidden. And Krunoslav, his own father, blew up his son's cover... As the witness claimed the first man was eliminated in front of Glavaš's very own eyes. And then Glavaš ordered: "Immediatly eliminate the other." Two more witnesses appeared against Glavaš, one of them possiblz Andrija Getoš Branimir Glavaš is nowdays resting on an Adriatic Island with several cars a yacht, his own private Mansion and a very young girl. He only stated that: "...and if you want to know anything about the things that happenned there, you should ask Šeks, for he was the one in charge there."

8. Vladimir Šeks, in Karlovac announced several times in 1991 that "...the Serbs will not be able to lead a policy like they have before..." and several other threats. Next to indirectly being involved in the crimes of Branimir Glavaš, he is one of the most powerdul men in Croatia.

9. Anto Đapić, the mayor of Osijek had claimed several outrageous facts the Osijek was a "peaceful zone".

10. everyone can remember the Paulin Dvor...

11. Ante Gotovina; look at http://www.antegotovina.com/ by the way

12. Karlovac is my birth place, and my beloved city, and yet today is a terrifying warzone. The criminal in Karlovac is amongst the highest in all of Croatia (one Roma woman has around six children and they are constantly looting). The beautiful Orthodox Church of St. Nikola in Karlovac was burned by the Ustaše members of the Croatian Army. The government had payed for the reconstruction of the church not so long ago. A construction fence was raised around it. No long ago, on the fence was written: "you build, and we will tear down again" next to a huge U. My dad's friend, one of the main people assigned for that project sarcasticly invented a slogan: "you tear down, but will pay again, and so shall we build again."

13. Knin: the SDSS (Serbian Democratic Self-Directive Party) formed a coalition with HDZ so that it could remain in power; while on regional elections, in Knin, HDZ "couldn't come with an agreement with the Serbs" as said the 25-year-old mayor of Knin. She said, in honor of the Storm Operation, that "...the people have returned and peace and prosperity can begin again..." when in fact, most of the citizenz of Knin are living in exile, outside (which is the reson why SDSS got so many votes) and the current citizens are newcomers mostly. It was also said that "...Knin's once famous factories and companies have crumbled and the city has lost it's greatness..." Ofcourse, that happens in a place when you generally change it's population.

14. Crvena Zvezda: The journalist Milan Jajčinović spoke about the return of "Arkan's Warriors" a. k. a. "the Red Devils" to Croatia. He spoke that there is no doubt that they will be wild, destructive as they were... etc

15. When I visited Kistanje, you don't even want to hear how tense the situation is there: the Croats hate the Serbs, the Serbs hate the Croats....

16. General-Colonel of HV (Croatian Army), Mladen Kruljac, ordered a deserted JNA (People's Army of Yugoslavia) sniperist, Tomislav Abramović, to shoot several civilians, as his ex-soldier Želimir Dragočević claims. And I donćt need to mention the cold war between Mladen Kruljan and Ante Prkačin that goes on still today.

17. During the Inter Zaprešić-Crvena Zvezda match, the Croatian police and para-military forces kept the Delije (cheerers of Crvena Zvezda) that had come from Serbia under a strong grip. Several of them were returned to Serbia just because they showed "three fingers". A citizen of Zagreb, the capital of Croatia, Stefan Nemanja, was beaten by several brigands just because he wore the "compomising T-shirt of 60 years of Crvena Zvezda". And a huge array of weaponry was confiscated that was prepared for the Delije. Several Crvena Zvezda busses were even hit, and the most "original" attack on the Delije was a tiny rocket launch. The cheerers of Zeprešić have even sang several Ustaše songs! Remember what said Milan Jajčinović?

18. The State-of-Union of Serbia and Montenegro has requested from the Republic of Croatia that the Croatian government should pay a war damage in the amount of around 4,5 billion Euros: 2.000.000.000 for the lost years-of-service; 1.000.000.000 for the apartments; 420.000.000 for buisiness locals; 267.900.000 for houses; 244.500.000 for the furniture; 190.500.000 for the automobiles; 191.500.000 for the tractors; 190.500.000 for the cattle; 15.200.000 for ranges, 22.800.000 for electric ranges; 25.000.000 for washing machines; 22.200.000 for refrigerators; 22.800.000 for TVs; 8.800.000 for the heaters; other household artefacts were not counted. That would not be fer both as the number is too little, and it should not be payed to the SCG government but to US, after all, WE are the victims, not THEM. I have heard that there were several acusations that the number is far too high. If my father's house, our apartment (with artifacts and works of art dating from the Industrial Ages) and my Grandparents' house, together with all the forests, vineyards, olive trees, crop fields and animals (that were used for target practise) yield not much below 1.000.000 Euros, what do you think what is all-together? And were 380.032 emigrated refugess from 1991-1995 in Croatia; not counting several hundreds of thousands that are still concidered citizens of Croatia, only in refuge.

19. the Croatian journalist in New York, Jadranka Jureško-Keto, is a very vile person. She said: "The Serbs have (generalizing, again) Vuk Drašković in their politics who claimed in 1965 that Jasenovac was a gargantuan crime, and in 2005 that the Storm was a genocide operation." The intonation of that sentence was probably supposed to be sarcastic. In 1965. as she claims, Franjo Tuđman stopped Tito from raising the "600.000-900.000 victim memorial of the Jasenovac internment capm; and claimed later that the number was 28,000. The numbers of Jasenovac were over 50,000 CONFIRMED back then; and now, the number is around 80,000-100,000 althought the frequent researchers of many scientists (Croatian, Serbian, Bosnian, German, American, Russian, etc.) cross 300,000-350,000 and go as high as 700,000. She also wrote: "The Serbian "Veritas" claims that 250.000 Serbs were exiled and 2.500 killed in the Storm" (both numbers are very different and a little higher, actually) Then she wrote: "We Croats don't have Franjo Tuđman from 1965. so that he can negate even these false claims."

20. After Croatia lost to Serbia and Montenegro in (vaterpolo, pomozi) the Croatian trainer claimed that: "...we will be able to defeat the Serbo-Montenegrins as soon as 2007. if the team (and the state) don't fall apart before it."

21. in the night betwen 18th and 19th July this year Čedo (80) and Miljko (71) Medić were assaulted in their own homes and beaten in the Lišani Ostrovički. They are not safe even in a Serbian-populated town-village.

22. Borovo and Trpinja were mined several times (the areas populated by Serbs)

23. Dušan Karić was LINCHED in Karin near Obrovac. The Croatian authorities first claimed that the Serbs had done it in order to make the Croats the bad guys, then withdraw that claim.

24. 1.908 returners were on the list of thise who had to be arrested and judged for crimes. The number fell to around 1.400 after the Croatian authorities were forced to make a revision. S.K. was arrested in Baljci near Drniš, Belimir Stanković, the man whome he "harrassed" didn't identify him and he was released. S. Š. was acused of harrassing Croats in Ervenik near Knin in 1992. In 1993.togethor with 29 more people, he was acused and convictd for 10 to 15 years of prison. None of the acused were present on the trial. When he voluntarelz surrendered, the trial was led again, and ALL of the witnesses had changed their testimonies. He was released.

25. The Logic of Victory: A journalist bz the name of Davor Ivanković said: "The Americans threw nuclear bombs at Hiroshima and Nagasaki; the Soviets killed nearly 10,000 German refugees in the Baltic by sunking their boats; Winston Churchil had aproved the bombing of Dresden, a city with minimal military security and hundreds of thousands of German refugees; yet they all WON. Why couldn't Storm then, no matter of the casualties or exiled populace be concidered a Victorius operation?" Well, if he is still primitive like that, then why don't we send him to Alexander the Great of Macedon in the 4th century B.C., ad let him burn-down rebelling Thebes for Alexander and either kill in place, or take to slavery its citizens.

26. and yet the journalist Jasmina Popović speaks with words of both great wisdom and a little offensive to the Serbs. She said: "What to do with them: they can't go back, since they rebelled against their authorities and committed heavy atrocities, nor can they stay in exile!?"

HolyRomanEmperor 12:49, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Srijem

Joy, why have You moved my article to Srem/Srijem? I don't want to unnecessarilly multiply the articles, but there is already the article with Hungarian name Szerem, then article with Serbian name Srem, why are You putting my Srijem under Serbian term (why the page isn't Srijem/Srem, this way is Srem on the first place?). Why can't we, the Croats, have a page, which has Croatian name? If You want to merge articles, You could've merge Szerem to Srem also. Generally, it should be Syrmia, which is international term for our Srijem.Kubura 13:53, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Template about name dispute

Please check Misplaced Pages:Templates for deletion#Template:Macedonian_naming_dispute. Perhaps you can share your opinion and clarify the creation of this template. Thanks. MATIA 13:58, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

• Since you, Joy, were there "at the beginning" so to speak, can you explain for me why there is a template for the Macedonia naming dispute, but not for the Chinese, Samoan, or New Guinean naming disputes, to name a few. It seems to me, and correct me if I'm wrong, that a well-organized clique dedicated to enforcing their viewpoint has subverted normal Misplaced Pages standards in this area. Is that right? Thanks for your time, Friejose 14:41, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

I left a response on my talk page for you, Friejose 15:02, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Serbian point of view

Even if it is your opinion that the government of Croatia were "a group of unelected wannabe criminals", this is totally unacceptable in an encyclopedia article, and not in accordance with our Misplaced Pages:NPOV policy. It was previously dediced not to label any state "puppet state", as in the case of the German Democratic Republic and other states which were, from a western point of view, viewed as Soviet puppet states. Also, "attack" is not a neutral wording. Italy and Germany were allied with the King of Yugoslavia and the intervention was approved by the legal head of state. This needs to made clear in the article. I'm going to remove any POVs or attempts to rewrite history from Serbian POV which are inserted there. 83.109.161.6 14:44, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

It is not for Misplaced Pages to decide which governments are "legal", which would have terrible implications and lead to endless disputes, and which have nothing with NPOV to do. The Croatian government was the actual government of Croatia, and we have to stick to it, just like we have to stick to the fact that the various communist governments of Eastern Europe were the actual government of those states, even if considered "illegal" by former or current governments. 83.109.161.6 15:03, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Concerning proposal

That should not be done because the computer that I (Zec) sometimes use has other users that might occasionally be editing on wikipedia Zec 23:00, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

== Sorry ==

I found that I accidently responded to you in the ICE section, :( sorry.

"During which time was it part of Duklja? I can't say I recall which exact period you are talking about. It's important because the Duklja before Stefan Nemanja was not actually very Serbian, saying it like that would be a distortion of another kind. --Joy 11:56, 23 August 2005 (UTC)" If you want, I will give you a detailed mapped info about Dubrovnik and it's Serbia-Croatia relations. And what do you mean not mentioning Serbia before Stefan Nemanja??? It is a well-known fact that it was called Rascia (Raška) until the forming of Tsar Dušan the Great's Empire of Serbs, Arbanasses and Greeks, after which (although a feudal anarchic period until the Ottomans was in store) Serbia was the general name in use. And the union of Rascia and Bosnia (later inculding Zeta/Docleia and Zahumlje/Hum) is the concidered a first unified Serbia and that was even before Docleian Serbia.

And you missed my notes of the history of Croatia articles being rather far too short. A reader would think that Croatia is a war-torn country that was created in a civil war (by un-orthodox means) with "some ancient lineage" Where are Tomislav, Krešimir, Zvonimir, Mihajlo Pupin's legacy, Nikola Tesla, Grgur Ninski, Josip Runjanin, etc...?

A link to Montenegro and Serbia is still wanted, you know?

HolyRomanEmperor 11:01, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I know and understand everything you meant (by the way, you can freelly if you want stop being so polite in our discussions, I have seen by now that you are a good, truthful person; quitte opposite of Mir Hrven) but you should see some of his contributions. Even you told him, once "... I don't know even how do you expect to be taken seriously" on one matter. And I think that he is well, something at least a little more than a Croatian nationalist. He openly speaks about global Serbian fascism. HolyRomanEmperor 13:18, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

And why do you not want to connect Duklja etc. with Serbia? Prince Petar Gonjiković (892.-917.), the ruler of Rascia, Docleia/Zeta, Travunia with Konavli, Hum and Paganija/Neretvia is generally concidered as the first known Serb leader/ruler. Then the Principality of Dalmatia, ruled by Princes Višeslav, Trpimir and Mucimir from 800.-910. and the Principality of Pannonia, ruled by Princes Ljudevit Posavski (819.-828.) and Braslav (880.-910.) cannot be concidered Croatian states? But everyone accepts these facts... I would like the links to Montenegro and Serbia in the Croatia article, please.HolyRomanEmperor 13:18, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

I agree, now, what about the upper-mentioned? HolyRomanEmperor 13:36, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

Well, the borders of Peter Gojniković's Serbia are the first know borders. Just give me several days and I will upload his country's territories. Why didn't you continue to read my very-long post??? HolyRomanEmperor 17:58, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Either you're not there, or you're ignoring my posts. You put the link to Bosnia and Herzegovina in the Croatia article. The Georgaphy article is only leading to Serbia and Montenegro (I meant seperatly, as two different countries related to Croatia) There is the lets-say-from-a-foreign-point-of-view same language. The History of the countries is as close as Germany and Austria; and far more closer than England and America. Their mentioning is simply logical. I don't understand your need to make me more percise. HolyRomanEmperor 14:29, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I apologize, my friend (I guess I have some kind of a phobia that you will forget about my posts :) ) I will wait as long as you want me to. Could you read Mir Harven's posts on talk page? HolyRomanEmperor 18:55, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Mir Harven

For Gods' sake Joy-Shallot, this Mir Harven keeps speaking of total nonsence. WHat is wrong with thaat man??? He says that the WWII death toll was too high; that that Republika Srpska is an illegal state based on chetnik fascism and ideology of pro-serbism and ethnic cleansing! There are many other things... HolyRomanEmperor 21:57, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

Croatia is nothing but a fascistic and nationalistic state based on Ustaša ideology (the fact that the Croatian people is Croatian by itself and in many other factors, and can not be compared to any other nation in the world). The traces of Croatian extreme Croatian nationalism date back as far as the Chronicle of the Priest of Duklja, from the Docleian times, which has many un-accurate and false facts, probably some were even "slipped-in" recently and is generally, mainly fictional. The book "came-to-the-surface" and is accepted by many Croats only recently, probably because of the harsh Croatian nationalism. It is a lame fact such sources are "digged-out" only for national propaganda. Croatia was created by King Tomislav, who expanded the country significantyl and waged wars on its Hungarian and Bulgarian rivals. Tomislav was known as a protector of Serbs later; and his plans were probably encompassing the creation of a unified Sour Slav state (Sclavinia) first by acquiring all Serbian territories. But Tomislavć's enlightening rule cam to passč and the new Croatian rulers were harsh nationalists who executed several Serb officials that had fled from the Bulgars to Croatia with the Serbian Prince Časlav. Prince Časlav reconstructed Serbia, annexed the Prinicipality of Bosnia from the Kingom of Croatia (because its population was majorly Serbian and the local Serbs didn't like Croatia as a national monarchy), but died in combat with the Hungarians, tried to stop their advance across the Danube. Bosnia became an independant Principality and finally completly abandoned the primitive and age-old ways of Croatia, and paved the way for the creation of an important (Serbian, later also, to a point, Croatian) Realm. Later, Croatia became a part of the Kingdom of Hungary. It was ruled, during it's first several ages, by the Šubići (a dinasy which later became of Serb blood as well). The region later underwent a period of Hungarization and harsh feudalism, but gave little resistence to the changes of the order in Croatia. The situation was peaceful, at various time, oscilated. The Hungarian rulers moved a part of the Croatian nobilty to a region that they could more easily control and that would create a "living wall" for the Hungarian King, Slavonia. Croatian propaganda is again well know, as this common realm with the Hungarians is often know in Croatian as the Croay-Hungarian kingdom. And the Croatian historians mostly reffer to the fact that the Croatian nobility called the Habsburgs to come to power (it was actually the Hungarian) The Serbs, both the natives and those that are fleeing from the Ottomans, have proven to be exellent defenders, as is well-known that they were often reworded by the Holy Roman Emperors. The proposition of the official language of Croatia and Slavonia Serbian, was short-lived and almost never released. The Croatian politicians have deceived a plan how to use the Entente's opposition to the Alliance (Austria-Hungary was its part) and the tensions between Austro-Hungary and Serbia: the Yugoslav plan; which originally only meant a transition-government as a means for an independant Croatia. After World War I, Croatia and Slavonia became a part of the State of Slovenes, Croats and Serbs. Several Croatian politicians wanted an independant Croatia, and have even got approvements by several noted groups and factions from within the state. But due to Serbia's acquisition of Vojvodina, Montenegro and several Bulgarian territories, as well as the promises made for Bosnia and Herzegovina and several other Austro-Hungarian former territories to be joined as well, Croatia would be a very small independant political entity. So the Croatian politicians agreed with the Serbian Prime Minister, Nikola Pašić, to create the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes. Soonly, the Vidovdan constitution was approved, which cancelled all historical provinces (but which had no real "autonomous" power) of the Kingdom (Serbia, Montenegro, Vojvodina, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Dalmatia, Croatia and Slavonia, the Slovenian Lands) The Croatian politicians strongly opposed this because the name of their "state" disappeared from the maps (even though so did, Serbia, Slovenian Lands, Montenegro...etc.) Stjepan Radić, a politician fighting for his Croatian people was assassinated by the extreme anti-nationalists. The there are the terrorist Ustaše, who fought with terrorism. When the Kingdom of Yugoslavia was created, soon after, the King was assassinated bz the Ustaše in coalition with another radical group (even thought the Yugoslavism dream finalz came to reality) in Marseilles (although this was negated by the Croatian authorites, because they didn't want to seem "terroristic"). The autonomous Croatia Banovina was created, an extremly pro-Croatian orientated part of Yugoslavia. Then, in World War II, the Croats committed the greatest crimes ever done (the Independant State of Croatia) on the History of former Yugoslavia. I don't need to mention the 1970s new separatistic Croatian attemps. Then, the war escalated with mass pro-Croatian anti-Serbist fascism and nationalism in 1991-1995, emulating with the greatest displacement of the population of Croatia in 1991-1995, when 300,000-400,000 left and many were brutally murdered. I have already noted the facts about the extreme present Croatian nationalism and fascism which goes on for the past decade.

			                                    Mir Harven mk II

Do you really think that normal persons will buy this rhethoric, elbeit "proven", nonsene (they are all "facts" according to Mir Harven's way of understanding them) HolyRomanEmperor 13:05, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Rms125a@hotmail.com

I've added an incident on WP:AN/I about our mutual friend User:Rms125a@hotmail.com evading his 3RR block. Demiurge 20:10, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

Lawsuit removed from BXVI

Hi-yeah, along with Abraham Lehrer demand . Famekeeper 09:30, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

Vasco da Gama

An article that you've edited before (Vasco da Gama) is nominated for Article Improvement Drive. If you want go there and vote. Thanks. Gameiro 02:58, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Re: Re: Let me hear yo out

I cant wait to hear the rest of your replies (regarding my quitte long post).

Well, to avoid those early-mentioned problems, let's talk in English. About the anger-control, well, yes; just like when I was angry at you when you mentioned about those numbers of returners. My apartment was confiscated by the coalition of two extreme right-wing (demonic, but that is only my personla opinion) parties: the HDZ and HSP (of which the latter is terrifyingly extreme, as they called themselves Ustasas on several occasions. There is absolutly no quarrel that my apartment will stay in the hands of that dark, repulsive Janjevac lone-man which now occupies it; nor that a large population of my brethren will never be able to return.

Shurely you remember the 14 Croats that Tudman called personnally to return to the grandfatherland? Only two of them have a job. There are not only emigrants from Bosnia and Herzegovina, you know.

I stated that Sanja Top Show is rather very interesting, but it's previous episodes... during te Storm's celebration two-three years ago. One started with: "Good morning croatian citizens of the Republic of Croatia on this beautiful Croatian morning.

The "Oluja nad olujama" show was on HRT 1 (please re-read the sections about my village, Varivode)

You think of Gurovic. Yes, I don't agree with his tattoo; but I don't get the strong opposition of Croatian government of it. There are many citizens which have tattooed Ante Pavelic (which is, I think we both agree, far worse). By the way, recent researchings report that the Četniks killed mostly Ustasa (next to the Partisan, German, Italian, Hungarian, Albanian and Bulgarian) armed forces. But when it comes to civilians; the researches incline that they mostly killed Serb civilians, since they mostly opperated on Serbian-populated lands; and yet most Serbs supported the anti-monarchistic Partisans. About the de-Tudmanizacija process. I think that the de-Milosevicacija process has exceeded all neccessary levels in Serbia and Montenegro. In here, one of the two most powerful parties are DS (Demokratska stranka) and G17+; while in Croatia, HDZ (Hrvatska Demokratska Zajednica) and HSP (Hervatska Stranka Prava) are very influential. Please, not the adverbs in the parties' names. I can draw the HDZ-SPS and HSP-SRS line freely; although the Socijalistička Partija Srbije has absolutly no real importance in the politics anymore and the Srpska Radikalna Stranka lost the attempt to seize political power in the past elections; ending even her political importance, while HDZ simply won't give up. SPS sent Slobodan Milosevic to Hague and SRS sent Vojislav Seselj; both of their leaders. You get my point. In Croatia, the nimber of victims is minimized and the Ustasas proclaimed "no so bad after all" (look www.hrvatskiustaskipokret.com it is very powerful and influential). DO YOU REMEMBER WHEN A CERATIN CROATIAN POLITITIAN SAID THAT IN JASENOVAC, "Mala Florami" was held? While one the other hand, in Serbia and Montenegro, there are two very popular and influential (serbian, not to make a confusion) groups talking that the entire "srpstvo" has turned into a machination of pure and general evil towards non-Serbs. Every fridaz I here watch BBC - Srebrenica and every thursday (litterally every) BBC - Ervenik. The people here has absolutly no knowledge of the war itself. When I told my little three-zear-old cousin that he is a Serb, the first thing that he said is: "Why are we naturally evil?"

I might add, that one man from Varivode (which I knew), Gladovic, not so long ago (most of my examples date after the war) went to Zagreb, where he was "accidently" machine gunned. He got several bullets through his neck.

I would also like to hear zour opinion on the Holy marking of Krajina's fall in cathedrals every year (in which is the head of the Croatian Catholic church involed) . You know, the "thank yoo, oh God, for helping us cut off all seven heads of the seven-headed monster" etc.

There is absolutly no need for a History of Serbs or Serbs in Croatia article. The desired info could just be copied into History of Croatia and Serbs articles.

Look at the discussions in Croatia's talk page. There, under the username Shallot you said that much less than 100.000 Serbs left Croatia in 1995.

HolyRomanEmperor 18:03, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Red and White Croats and Serbs

• So, the White Croats inhabited regions a little west of Zadar and are most definetly ancestor's of present Croats.
• The Red Croats inhabited the coastline regions of Zeta, Hum, Duklja and Travunija, although this is often sporadic because of De Administrando Imperio the fact that those lands almost immediatly became Serbian; and left to be that way for a long period of time, and that many Serb rulers come from those regions.
• The original White Serbs are Serbs from Lužice in Germany, and their derivates came to roughly areas of Dubrovnik and a little west. According to Constantinte's De Administrando, they inhabitted Red Croatia.
• The Red Serbs, are the long-extinct founders of Rascia (Raška)

You see, those facts are all too rough. So let us just count out the "Reds". Read http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/7681/origins.html This rhethoric nonsense actually makes sense and has proofs. But I strongly oppose it. It is impossible to claim such facts. HolyRomanEmperor 18:23, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

the Serb Orthodox Cathedral Church of Saint Nicholas in Karlovac

Tell me, Joy; what do you know about this? Don't look up somewhere; just tell me what you about it. HolyRomanEmperor 18:30, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Pagania/Neretvia

You might be interested in reading ] It contains very interesting and detailed info; almost anything you want to find out about Neretvians. The reason why I am litterraly firing from an artillery placement posts onto your talk page is that I had returned from a 2-week vacation and my free time is slowly starting to run out. Don't get me wrong, take all the time on Earth you need to read them. HolyRomanEmperor 10:46, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

Pacta Conventa

Joy, you seem like the person to ask about this. There's a single article responding to query "Pacta Conventa" and it pertains to an event (or a couple of events) in Polish history (XVI century). I was thinking that a Pacta Conventa disambiguation page should be made. The article on the year 1102 mentions the event, but not by this name, and the History of Croatia refers to Pacta Conventa with no link, as there is no article. So, a disambiguation page and a little content copy-paste from Medieval Croatian state or just a link to it? Thanks. Damir A 03:24, 4 September 2005 (PST)

CHV

Since you posted on this stub, you might be interested in this. Str1977 22:55, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Croatia-related stubs

Hi there,

I found it rather amazing that Croatia-related stub category didn't exist, especially becouse Croatia-geo-stub did. So I created it and started putting articles in it. And then I wondered if what I'm doing is OK. Becouse, hey, how come nobody came to the idea of making that stub category... And, moreover, I'm not quite sure what articles should be included in the category. So I turn to you for a piece of advice. I'm pretty sure that there are suposed to be in Croatia-related stub category: White_Croats, Liberalism_in_Croatia becouse they talk about Croatia or Croats as a nation, but then again, I'm not sure about this one: ISO_3166-2:HR, becouse this is primarily article about a standard, and I'm definitely not sure about these: Azra, Film (music group) as they were popular in former Yugoslavia. So, my question is: Is excesive stubbing bad? Meaning, if I have second thoughts about putting an article in a stub category, do I put it there or do I leave it out since we don't want to have articles that are in 5 different stub categories? I did a bit of searching and found lots of articles that could fit in Croatia-related stub category, but they already are in a stub category (bio stub, political party stub, ect...), so what do I do? Leave them alone or go and add them to Croatia-related?

And, then another question. Where do I ask questions and put notices concerning Croatia? :-) Say, I created this stub category and would like to inform other Croats on Misplaced Pages of it's existance, so they could re-stub their articles (I find it much more effective than searching myself or announcing on stub sorting project) or just be aware that the category now exists and can be used in the future. Or I just want to ask whether anybody would like to help with something regarding Croatia, or... well, I mean, Internet is all about communicating, so where do Croats comunicate on Misplaced Pages (or even, do they?)?

--Dijxtra 21:35, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Oh, my

I just saw one herzegbosnian .org site. I can't even believe that someone even makes that fascistic piece of nonsence. "pessimus dux Sclavorum" — najgori kralj Hrvata... appareantly someone either thinks that no one speaks Latin or his mind it so incredibly corrupted by mortal sins that they have to draw for every possible straw. I really feel sorry for the poor editors of that site... HolyRomanEmperor 13:55, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

The "Serbian" telenovela is exactly what I find strange (it makes me think that it is pointed out to give a choice to the people whether or or not they will watch something made by Serb hands) About James Bond; as I said, you can't find almost anything "Serb" or "Montenegrin" in here. I found it on several British intellegence refference websites, there is an article of him right here in wikipedia. Jureško~Keto is the main reporter for Croatia in the United States of America. I really donćt think that the capital of Zagreb is a back~hinterland (a man was linched there not long ago) Can't wait to hear from the rest of your replies... HolyRomanEmperor 17:04, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

I would like to hear your opinion about the sacral marking of the Storm, still... HolyRomanEmperor 20:37, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

Yugoslav First League

Since we're the only ones editing that article (which isn't a bad thing :) ) I'll just make a section in here as your "mailbox" regarding that talk page. Please go see the Talk:Yugoslav First League. --Hurricane Angel 04:05, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

On the Yugoslav Cup I noticed you left the section as (FRY), are you sure about that? I would like to see the Cup and the First League articles to be identical in their structure, so we should either move the FRY cup winners to SCG or return the FRY league champions to the league article. Know what I'm saying? --Hurricane Angel 21:47, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing the "wacko formatting", I was hoping someone would do that eventually... I'm not very good with tables :) --Hurricane Angel

OK

Yes, as much as bad as it may seem, the "blessing" is truthful. But, as is always, it is just an exception. I mean, you can't really generalize that during world war II the entire branch of the Catholic church in NDH collaborated?!?!!? I can't wait to hear from you about the other comments... hear from you soon. :) HolyRomanEmperor 15:17, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

That about Mir Harven was just an analogy (I have just reverted his to thoughts completly to the other side, although keeping the same intensity) I would also like you to view up my other comments (especially about the lie including my village, Mir Harven is very reluctant on answering that one) HolyRomanEmperor 11:07, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

Eurobasket

Hi, I reverted your edit of Eurobasket 2005 page concerning the fact that Belgrade is the (only) host city. The thing is Belgrade was picked to be a host by FIBA Europe, not Serbia and Montenegro, logo and all other relevant material show that Belgrade is the host, and not the whole country. Also, when Belgrade was host in 1961 and 1975, other Yugoslav cities also hosted the competition.

Opening ceremony was held in Belgrade, all games from quarter-finals until the end of the competition are being held in Belgrade, only 3 out of 4 preliminary groups are in different towns. And of course, money matters - the organization was party financed by City of Belgrade, not Serbian or federal gov't. My analogy would be last Olympic games, where Athens was the host (and not Greece), but competitions were held in Salonica and Olympia as well.

Anyways, enjoy Eurobasket ;) Meelosh 22:47, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

New stubs

Thanks for your note on making new stubs. {{Polymer-stub}} was listed at WP:WSS/P on 5 September 2005. Physchim62 08:06, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

discussion of your changes in Masturbation

Any comments to Talk:Masturbation#some_changes_to_the_Masterbation.23Law_section?

Debian "releases"

Hi Josip. On Testing (Debian), you added that "Testing is not a release, because as soon as one snapshot of testing gets released, it loses this label and a new testing goes live." However, refers to stable, testing and unstable as "releases". Obviously, this is not a traditional sense for "release" in the two last cases. Neither of us are native English speakers, so it may be harder to judge that. But supposing that keeping Debian and Misplaced Pages jargons compatible would be good, did you discuss the use of the word with Debian, or see a discussion about it? IMO, if Debian is at fault, it would be good to determine if the usage can be fixed so that we have clear ways to document.

Following your reply, it looks like you misunderstood where the word is most confusing : The top of the page reads : "Debian always has at least three releases in active maintenance: “stable”, “testing” and “unstable”." This has been the perhaps strange wording since as long as I can remember. The "Debian Releases" title acknowledges this is no error. It is also generally used for example on #debian to ask people which...distribution they use (Which release do you run?). Perhaps the general use in Debian only comes from that page. Since you seem to say that this is not an intentional use, do you think it's worth checking www.d.o bugs for a report about this, and open one if there's none?--Chealer 18:59, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

I forgot to add..."distribution" is not necessarily better than "release". From Debian's first sentence : "Debian is a distribution". Several other sentences in that page consider Debian *a* (and therefore 1) distribution. But if Debian is a distribution... "The “stable” distribution contains the latest officially released distribution of Debian." could translate to "The “stable” distribution contains the latest officially released distribution of a distribution." This shows that distribution would have a somewhat ambiguous meaning. We know that the general meaning of "distribution" is the one as in "Debian is a distribution".

So what do you think? Should Debian look for a new word to describe testing and unstable? "Package pools" sounds pretty technical. Branch doesn't seem to fit for a distro.--Chealer 19:22, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

Sveta Nedelja

Zanima me izvor podatka da je Sveta Nedelja najveća općina u Hrvatskoj. Kako znaš da sam bio User:Jugoslaven? :) Luka Jačov 11:44, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

Ne znam, malo sam sumnjičav jer mi je nekako logičnije da se takva općina nalazi u rjeđe naseljenim djelovima zemlje. U svakom slučaju bi to trebalo provjeriti i napisati stvarnu površinu u članku. Luka Jačov 17:55, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

Well...

Notification, your talk-page is heavily bugged. I suggest splitting or moving old discussions to the Archive HolyRomanEmperor 17:48, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

'three' as a link

That's better; thank you. Tony 01:10, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Corpus Christi

Hi, Joy! As creater of Corpus Christi I was hoping you can help me out. In the opening paragraph, there is a link to Episcopal Church which is a disambiguation page. Can you offer any guidance as to where this should be directed to instead of the disambig page?? Help :-). -Roby Wayne 05:13, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Great! I am glad to know I wasn't losing my marbles :-). I didn't think you added it, but I saw that you had originally authored the Corpus Christi article--so I thought I'd start with the beginning. Anyway, we'll just live it as a link to the disambiguation page where the reader can select which route they want to take. Thanks for your time!! >: Roby Wayne 10:18, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

This info

I want to add this info in Karlovac. I am doing so in the English version; but in the Croatian, some user Elephantus is keeping a strong ustaša-like regime. That about Jasenovac play, I think it was the President of Sabor, or something called like that, of Croatia.

- Cathedral Church of Saint Nicholas – built between 1785–1787. Iconostasis painted by Arsa Teodorovic and wall-frescoes by Dragutin Inkiostri Medenjak. Church served as storehouse for objects looted from the Serbs and Jews (1991–1945). Church twice damaged: during direct war operations in 1991, and by explosives outside the zone of conflict on Christmas, 1992. "...We entered the remains of the church from the south, because the narthex was demolished and the choir loft had collapsed, blocking the west-side entrance. The altar apse was completely demolished, falling towards the parapet of the iconostasis. The roof had fallen into the nave; beneath the beam in the middle of the church one can see the great chandelier; a part of the ceiling still remained... The inside walls lean outward. They could fall at any time... Everything in the church was demolished..." (Report of 2 September, 1992). Church completely razed in 1993.

- Diocesan Residence built in 1882 – housing a large collection of portraits of Bishops of the Diocese of Gornji Karlovac. Diocesan Treasury: from 1985 housing many icons, books and liturgical items, removed from Monasteries and Churches of the Diocese during the Second World War by Ustashas, returned to the Serbian Orthodox Church only in 1985. Diocesan Residence broken into, pillaged and destroyed. "On 25 December, 1993, at 0410 hours, following Midnight Mass on the occasion of Roman Catholic Christmas, a very strong explosion occurred in the Bishop’s See. The Diocesan Center was destroyed."

- The Diocese of Upper Karlovac comprises the most western Serbian territories: Banija, Kordun, Lika, Krbava, Gorski Kotar, as well as northern Croatia and Istria. It was named after the town of Karlovac, where its See is located. These territories have been settled by Serbians ever since the 15th century, and more intensely in the first decades of the 16th century. The main settlements were Zumberak and Bela Krajina, and then the areas near Gomirje and Gorski Kotar. During Turkish rule in central Lika (1528–1699), the Serbians moved to cragged, rugged land of Lika from Dalmatia, while Serbians from Bosnia settled mostly in Krbava. Many of them migrated from there to Austrian-held territories, i.e., to the area of the Vojna Krajina (Military "Buffer" Zone).

- During the 16th century, the spiritual life of Orthodox Serbians of this area was guided by the metropolitans of Dabar-Bosnia. The See of this Metropolitanate was at one time in Monastery Rmanj, at the tri-juncture of Bosnia-Dalmatia-Lika. When parts of Lika, Banija and Krbava, which had been to this time under Turkish rule, were liberated at the end of the 17th century, a separate Diocese of Karlovac-Zrinopolje was established (1695). The first Bishop of the Diocese was a refugee from Bosnia, Metropolitan of Dabar-Bosnia Atanasije Ljubojevic (1696–1712).

- In 1713, the Diocese of Karlovac-Zrinopolje was divided into two: the Diocese of Karlovac-Senj-Coastlands and the Diocese of Kostajnica-Zrinopolje. Danilo Ljubotina, Bishop of the former, founded his Episcopal Residence in Plaski. During the 18th century, the areas under Austrian rule were administered by the Bishops of Marca.

- Roman Catholic proselytism and forced conversion to the Uniate Church (recognizing the authority of the Roman Pontiff) were a constant danger for Orthodox Serbians within the borders of the Diocese of Karlovac. Proof of that religious aggressiveness is the fate of the Serbian people in Zumberak, forcibly subjected to the Uniate Church in the 17th and 18th centuries. In that disparate struggle between the Roman Catholic Church, supported by the Austrian Court and Army, the loss of Zumberak was inevitable. Moreover, the military authorities, under the advice of the Roman Catholic clergy, expelled Orthodox priests, denying the Orthodox Bishop access to these regions. In order to preserve the Serbians in the faith of their fathers and the spirit of Saint Sava, Bishop Pavle Nenadovic (1744–1749), later Metropolitan of Karlovci, founded a "Central School" in Plaski for the educating of young seminarians. Also through the efforts of this eminent Bishop a similar school was established in Zaluznice, near Vrhovina. Bishop Danilo Jaksic (1751–1771), a Hierarch of great pastoral devoutness and holy life, also worked hard for the enlightenment of Serbian youth. Thanks to his zeal, a school in Metka was opened.

- In the historic line of the Bishops of Karlovac the following are mentioned: Atanasije Ljubojevic (1688–1712), Danilo Ljubotina (1713–1739), Pavle Nenadovic (1744–1749), Danilo Jaksic (1751–1771), Josif Stojanovic (1771–1774), Petar Petrovic (17714–1784), Jovan Jovanovic (1784–1786), Genadije Dimovic (1786–1796), Stefan Avakumovic (1798–1801), Petar Petrovic Vidak (1801–1806), Mojsije Miokovic (1807–1823), Lukijan Musicki (1828–1837), Evgenije Jovanovic (1839–1854), Sergije Kacanski (1858–1859), Petar Jovanovic (1859–1864), Lukijan Nikolajevic (1865–1872), Teofan Zivkovic (1874–1890), Mihailo Grujic (1891–1914), Ilarion Zeremski (1920–1931), Maksimilijan Hajdin (1932–1936), Sava Trlajic (1938–1941), Nikanor Ilicic (1947–1951) and Simeon Zlokovic (1951–1990). The present Bishop of Upper Karlovac is Nikanor (Bogunovic).

- In World War II, Bishop Sava Trlajic of Upper Karlovac was martyred. The Bishop was arrested on 13 June, 1941, together with thirteen other prominent Serbians, among whom there were also three Serbian priests. They were confined in a barn belonging to an Ustasha camp-officer Tomljenovic, where they were tortured in various ways. When they were being beaten, the church hymn "For as many of you as were baptized into Christ…" (Gal 3:27a) was played on a record-player. From there they were taken by freight-train to Gospic on 20 June. Bishop Sava was allowed to say good-bye to his 83-year old mother, but with his hands tied and legs fettered. In mid-August of 1941, Bishop Sava Trlajic was taken to Mount Velebit, where he was, with numerous other Serbians, thrown into the pit "Jadovno".

- During World War II, the Diocese of Upper Karlovac endured an unprecedented spiritual genocide: 116 Serbian churches were destroyed, and 39 heavily damaged; two chapels were destroyed, along with 84 parish homes and other church buildings (53 being dynamited and 31 set afire). Church libraries and archives suffered the same fate: 154 archives were destroyed, 13 plundered. Out of 171 church and monastery libraries, 154 were destroyed while 17 were pillaged.

- This devastation of Serbian holy sites on the territory of the Diocese of Upper Karlovac continued even after the war. The places of worship which remained after the war, in general damaged and demolished, were totally destroyed on the strict order of "the People’s authority". Thus, the "People’s Committee of the Municipality of Udbina" on 22 March, 1960, addressed an official act to the Serbian Orthodox Church, i.e., the Diocese of Upper Karlovac, stating among other things: "Our People’s Committee of the Municipality, at its meeting of 14 July 1957, and on the basis of legal sanctions, has passed a decision concerning the destruction of what is left of the walls of buildings set afire during the war or demolished by other means… In reference to this, and as on the territory of this Municipality there are still a number of such walls of burnt down Orthodox churches (Josan, Mekinjar, Svrackovo Selo, Mutilic, et. al.), we have addressed ourselves personally to Your Diocese in Karlovac, with the demand that these walls be finally, after 15 years since the end of the Second World War, be removed, i.e., torn down. In the event that you do not undertake measures, this People’s Committee will be forced to do so on its own, and to demolish those walls at the expense of the above-addressee." This decision was signed by Bogdan Korac.

- The war of 1991–1995 added to this distress, thus continuing and confirming the continuity of the spiritual genocide on Serbian ecclesiastial monuments within the boundaries of the Diocese of Upper Karlovac. In the war from 1991 until 1993, five Serbian churches were demolished, and 18 damaged on the territory of this Diocese. Three parish homes were dynamited and seven damaged. Five cemeteries were destroyed. The Cathedral Church of Saint Nicholas in Karlovac, built during the period of 1785 to 1787, was dynamited by the Ustashas on Serbian Orthodox Christmas in 1992. The church of Saint Spyridon in Petrinja, dating from 1787, was destroyed by the Ustasha at the beginning of World War II; the new church was finished only in 1976. In the present war, this church was several times dynamited by Croatian nationalists, and finally on 12 August, 1991, razed to the ground. The Bishop’s Residence in Karlovac was shelled, plundered and finally destroyed. Thus on Saturday, 25 December, 1993, on Roman Catholic Christmas at 4:18 a.m., the See of the Diocese of Upper Karlovac was blown up by explosives. Within the walls of the Residence the Diocesan Museum Treasury, Archives and Library was located.

- Following the Croatian aggression on the Republic of Serbian Krajina, in August of 1995, the Serbian population of this ancient Diocese was driven out (many being killed), and their churches desecrated, damaged or destroyed. The 18th-century wooden church in Buzeta, near Glina, a unique example of church architecture, was burnt totally to the ground. On the territory of this Diocese, 11 churches were destroyed, while 45 were damaged during the war period 1991–1995. Eight parish homes and other churches buildings were also destroyed, while 14 suffered serious damage. Unfortunately, now that the Serbs have been expelled from this region, many churches and other buildings remain abandoned and exposed to the ravages of decay.

Proscriptions required

This is impossible! Everywhere I find vandalism and NPOV! In the Serbian wikipedia I had almost to declare a martial law under my undisputed rule, and start proscripting the entire site (like Cornelius Sulla, although I am not proud of it :)! Someone had even called Skenderbeg = Đorđe Kastriotić Skender Beg! I think that same violations are overflowing both English and Croatian wikipedias, too! Don't you agree? P. S. Can we make that History of Dalmatia article a little less pro-Croatian? HolyRomanEmperor 15:20, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Tagging the Daniel Coburn article with {crime-bio-stub}?

I noticed that you tagged Daniel Coburn with {crime-bio-stub}. I've written to the guy who created this stub, because I think it is so overly broad as to make it effectively worthless. They have been tagging Guantanamo detainees with this tag, even though none of them have been charged with any crime, in a real court of law.

Concerning your use of this tag -- you tagged Daniel Coburn, who was never charged with any crime -- but you didn't tag the Ilario Pantano, the guy he testified against, who had been charged with murder. Was this just an oversight? -- Geo Swan 10:34, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

You are correct. The Pantano article is no longer a stub. Thanks. -- Geo Swan 21:05, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

Hej

Za Croatia što si mi izbrisao: prim. => Općina Dalj\Опћина Даљ i u drugim mjestima (ćirilica u hrvatskom jeziku?) i vidi State mottos wikipedia članak koji kaže "Bog i Hrvati" kao hrvatski oficijalni moto. Možeš li srijedit Eparhiju Karlovačku za mene? Nemam više YUBC :( Puno hvala unaprijed. Sačekat ću malo, pa ću onda vratit moje promijene ako ti nećeš stići dotad. HolyRomanEmperor 17:01, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Pa, na hrvatskom je tako... :) No, šalu na stranu, ispitujem malo situaciju o Ruđeru Josipu Boškoviću i Ivi/Ivanu Andriću, i pravo da ti kažem, više ne znam ko je ko. Išao sam kod jednog Beogradskog univerzitetskog profesora koji otvoreno tvrdi da je Katarina Pejić bila Srpkinja (a to nije onako kao što su nas učili :) Dok s druge strane, dokopao sam (ugh, ovog puta validne izvore) da je Nikola Bošković bio Srbin. Malo me smara :( ali ako te interesuje iskucaću... A što se tiče Dalja, pretpostavljam da ono nisi vidio na televiziji prije... mjesec il' tako nešto; prikazana je Osnovna škola. U njoj predaju tri Srbina. Školski sabor je sazvan kako bi diskutirali o peticiji za otpuštanje tih profesora (jer, kako predsjednica tvrdi, ne žele da im hrvatska djeca poprime srpski akcenat :P ) Na snimci se vidjela jedna tabla (mislim da je ispred škole, ali ne smijem lupati gluposti) na kojoj piše Dalj/Даљ. A ti daj što možeš o onoj dvojici. Vjerovat ću ti kao i uvijek :) HolyRomanEmperor 18:06, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Popravio sam članak o Duklji, i stavio link za Ancient Doclea. Neko je pobrkao Bar sa Podgoricom (lokacija je ušće Zete i Morače). Stric iz Podgorice mi je e-mailovao još nekoliko linkova. (Da li se sijećaš ono davno kada smo diskutirali o asimiliranju? Imam primjer. Moj ujak je oženjen Hrvaticom, a djeca su im katolici — što misliš koje će b... koje su nacionalnosti? Vjerojatno će ujak biti zaboravljen za koje desetljeće, i porodica će biti stopostotna hrvatska, zar ne? plus to, moj ujak nema sinova; kapiraš što 'oću da ti kažem? asimilacija nije dug proces, već je ustvari trenutna...) HolyRomanEmperor 18:41, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Ajd, ovde cu, mrzi me da to ide na sve strane... --millosh (talk (sr:)) 17:07, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

1. Otac/deda Rudjera Boskovica je bio srpski velikas. Ipak, Rudjer je bio Dubrovcanin. (Informacija od profesorke dubrovacke knjizevnosti sa Univerziteta u Beogradu, koja nije nacionalista.) --millosh (talk (sr:)) 17:07, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
2. Ivo Andric se sam deklarisao kao Srbin (informacija koju imam, izmedju ostalih, i od Mira Harvena). --millosh (talk (sr:)) 17:07, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Nisam uopće imao pojma o toj drugoj strani priče. Zašto idioti uopće nisu i to stavili u prilog??? Što se mene tiče, ako ima očevidaca i dokaza, takvi ljudi bi trebali ići na sud. Što se tiče jezika. U Srbiji i Crnoj Gori stoji da su pored oficijalnog srpskog jezika, da se regionalno koriste i: albanski, madžarski, hrvatski, rumunski, rusinski i slovački; a u manjim mjestima i bugarski, njemački i poljski (no, samo Bugarski je lokaliziran i u statutu), kao i generalno da je u upotrebi i romski (ciganski). No, Hrvatska je za razliku od ove multi-etničke unije nacionalna država (od nedavno) pa ti to vjerojatno nećeš razumjeti.

Što se tiče Paganije, trebalo bi dodati link do one anarheologije; i mislim da se slažeš da bi isto trebalo da ima link do ... hm... bilo čega srpskog. Knez/Župan Petar Gojniković je vladao Paganijom kao jednom od više zemalja kojima je vladao (kao Karlo V nad Španijom i Njemačkim carstvom), dok je Knez Časlav Klonimirović Vlastimirović bio samo u dobrim odnosima sa Neretljanskom zemljom (imao je velikog utjecaja, otprilike kao Sovjetski Savez u Istočnoj Njemačkoj) I kao što vjerojatno već znaš, Časlav se sreo sa nekim lokalnim velikašima u Paganiji. Najvjerojatnije nije bila pod direktnom Časlavljevom vlasti. Znam da sam ti obećao slike, malo se odužilo, ali ćeš ih dobit uskoro. Slike su iz oficijalnog Historijskog Atlasa Jugoslavije, pa mogu da jamčim da je Petar Gojniković vladao Paganijom. Tek kasnije je Paganija pala pod isključivi hrvatski utjecaj, nakon što su njihove udružene mornarice pobjedile kod Makarske... (joj, koga ono biješe?) Možeš li ga pomenuti u članku o Paganiji?

U čemu je sukob oko Duklje? Grad je dobio ime po Doclei, gradu kod Podgorice. Tu nema sukoba, zar ne? A Bar nije bio centar Dukljanske vlasti svo vrijeme (valjda smo razjasnili, da je famozni pop vjerojatno pogriješio u mnogim stvarima) Kao prvo Bar uopće nije postao Dukljanski do druge polovine X vijeka, kada se centralistička dukljanska vlast prenosi iz Risana u Kotor. Baš u to vrijeme, jedini period kada je Dubrovnik bio srpski (!disputed subject), bio je Dukljanski centar. No, grad Duklja (Podgorica) je stara (prije velike Duklje) prijestolnica države Duklje. Bar, Ulcinj, Kotor i Dubrovnik su bili pripojeni u tom trenu. Bar i Skadar su bili izuzetno važni, ali nakon XI vijeka, Bar postaje glavni. No, nakon XII vijeka, grad Ras ujedinjene Srbije postaje glavni, i Bar gubi svaki politički značaj (zadržava religiozni). Postoje informacije da su čak i Trebinje bile važan Dukljanski centar (no, ako ideš kao Hrvatska po mijestu vladanja (Sisak, Knin, Biograd i drugi) onda moraš reći da je Ston najvažniji Dukljanski grad, jer je to bio Mihailov kraljevski stožer). Kada smo već kod toga, na Pelješcu (ovo sam već pomenuo) i dan-danas postoji mala srspka crkva (populacija). Oni se održavaju stare srpske tradicije i ponose se da "produžuju tradiciju Svetoga Mihaila". A i, mislim da znaš; Nemanjići su Dukljani (i probitno katolici) Stefan Nemanja je rekao da je uspio "obnoviti skoro cijelu djedovinu", jer nikada nije osvojio Dubrovnik (pozivao se na granice Petra Gojnikovića). Od njega, pa do cara Uroša V nejakog, Stefan postaje standardna titula za srpske vladare (jer je Nemanja to uzeo po Stefanu Vojislavu).

Osim toga, ne može se otvoreno reći da je nešto bilo srpsko tek do perioda za vrijeme i kasnije Nemanjića (i tada se država zvala Raška, a za vrijeme feudalne anarhije se ceo Balkan geografski zvao "Servia" - Srbija) Oficijalno ime Srbija je tek usvojeno krajem XVII-vijeka. Onaj ko kaže za Rašku da je Srbija, griješi puno. Duklja, Travunija, Zahumlje i Bosna su sve više "Srbije" od Raške, jer su vođe srpskih konfederacija dolazile prevashodno iz Duklje i Raške. Nemanjići i Vojislavljevići su Dukljani, no, deklarišu cijeli teritorij Raške i "Crvene Hrvatske" svojom djedovinom, i naglašuju, u slučaju Nemanjića, da je prijelaz na Pravoslavlje jedini način očuvanja svoje djedovine, jer je bila većinski pravoslavna, i primorje djelomično katoličko. Duklja je, za razliku od ostalih "Crvenih hrvatskih zemalja" za vrijeme podele 1054. bila pola pravoslavna i pola katolička, no pravoslavlje je skoro odmah zavladalo, a za vrijeme Stefana Nemanje postalo maltene 100%. Katolici su ostali kao većina u Dubrovniku. Kasnije, kako se Dubrovnik širio, širio se i katolicizam. Zbog fanatičke vjere Dubrovačkih vladara, samo je sićušna crkva na Pelješcu opstala do dan-danas. Stefan Vojislav se deklarisao da je podržavao "Orientalnu Shizmu". Konstantinopolj (Ortodoksna Šizma) i Rim (sjetiću se, zaborih kako se zvaše) su od 800. godine vodili hladan rat. Orijentalci Shisme su postali Pravoslavci, a ovi drugi postali Katolici. Nitko ne smije i ne može oduzeti pravo Hrvatskom narodu da svojeta Neretvane, no, za ove druge Slovenske se ne može isto reći. Skoro uvijek su bile vladane srpskim vladarima. Bile su sastavni dio Srbije skoro dugo koliko i Bosne (no, jedino ako želiš računati Bosnu i Otomansku okupaciju - autonomna Bosna).

Plus to, ako staviš na izbor: jedan katolički pop čiji identitet nije poznat, čije tvrdnje iznose činjenice koji očigledno ne mogu biti razmatrane kao historijske, i koji je po nekim tvrdnjama, Hrvat po nacionalnosti (dakle Hrvatski izvor, no nije dokazano jer nije sigurno da li je on uopće postojao na prvom mijestu); dok je na drugoj strani svijetski poznat Imperator Orienta, Romeja i Romejskog carstva, koji je poynat po mnogo više dijela nego taj pop (sa samo malo historijskih nesuglasica) i čiji su identitet, doba vladavine i života, kao i gomilu drugih stvari - potpuno poznati. Kada bi neko odabirao ismeđu ove dvojice, ja mislim da bi skoro svi odabrali Bizantskog cara. HolyRomanEmperor 18:18, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Još jedna stvar. Kralj Mihailo je 1077. krunisan kao Rex Serviae. Jedini razlog zašto je to "sporadic" je zato što hrvatski nacionalisti odbujaju da prihvate dio svojet teritorije kao srpski, a još i centralni srpski (Ston). Takvo svojatanje je prisutno svugde, kao na primjer sa Ruđerom Boškovićem... Ivom Andrićem (ovaj drugi je obe nacionalnosti, ali hrvatski nacionalisti nahrvatskoj wikipedi-i odbijaju hrvatsko podrijetlo). HolyRomanEmperor 18:39, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Nego, pitah te za Ivu/Ivana Andrića i Ruđera Josipa Boškovića ako nisi primjetio...

BTW, moja najbolja prijateljica Monika je s majčine strane miješana Srbo-Hrvatica (no, majka joj je katolkinja), a otac joj je Stjepan, potomak nekog (ne znam koji :( ) poznatog Vojvođanskog Bunjevca (možda ćeš naći zanimljivo da se on izjašnjavo u popisu kao Hrvat, a ne Bunjevac, a uopće ne voli Hrvate, govori kako su samo Bunjevci održali svoju tradiciju i čast :) HolyRomanEmperor 20:42, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Vandalism

Please stop vandalizing articles. Misplaced Pages:NPOV is a policy that will be enforced. Also, there are no "private" pages at Misplaced Pages. By editing or creating a page, you specifically agree that the text may be edited by other users.

protect Bosniaks

Joy would you please, at least temporarily, protect the Bosniaks page? The edit war (& vandalism) on first paragraph does not seem to be stopped by itself. Duja 14:59, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

I'd better not trip over myself

Hrvatska: I removed the text I'd added, until I hear back. --VKokielov 20:29, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Thank you...

... for this. Now I have to find where I did what I did before, and do what you did to them :-) —Phil | Talk 07:38, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Croatian propaganda by "Joy"

Joy stop spreading your low-character propaganda on the article "bosnian church"´. You know very well that the bosnian church wasn't christian at all in any way, it's just a way of expression to call it "church". The bosnian "church" WAS NEVER accepted by rome as a christian church, the bosnian church was bogomil and disappeared since all the bosniak bogomils converted to islam. Your propaganda material is really lame.

Good

Odlicno, mogu li te onda zamoliti da stavis Ivu i Ruđera međ Srbe na hrvatskoj enciklopediji? Latin? Obožavam tog tipa. Prekinuli sa da ga prijenose zbog Haških suđenja, na žalost. :( HolyRomanEmperor

no YUBC conn. must be short. been in Greece. inf (in 1066) = Mihailo Vojislavljević of Serbia and Bosnia - Orthodox. Central Bosnia and western Serbia - Orthodox. Ragusian Byzantine province (ruled by Arsenios Kalathetos, Orthodox Greek) - Orthodox with the exception of the city itself. Hum and mid-western Bosnia - Orthodox. Zeta (ruled by Radoslav Vojislavljević, Orthodox) - majorly Greek Orthodoxs. Croatia (ruled by Trpimirovici, Frangepans and Subici) all Catholic except western Bosnia (ruled by Catholic Subici) which is Orthodox. HolyRomanEmperor 10:44, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

During the reign of Stefan Nemanja (Orthodox) (1187. record) . Serbia and eastern half of the Seaside are Orthodox. Bosnia, central being Catholic, and southern being Orthodox (ruled by Kulin, Catholic) Croatia entirely Catholic with the exception of its hold of western Bosnia (Orthodox), which is ruled by Kosače. Western Seaside, at places Catholic, at places Orthodox, but more Catholic than Orthodox. HolyRomanEmperor 10:44, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

During the reign of Stefan Dušan (1337. record) the Serbian Empire is Orthodox, while its most southern provinces are inhabitted by Greeks (Orthodox too) and its eastern-to-southeastern by Orthodox Bulgars (ruled by a Shishman, Bulgarian Orthodox). Bosnia ruled by Stjepan Kotromanić (Orthodox), Vladislav Kotromanić (Orthodox) and Nikola and Katarina Kotromanić (both Orthodox). While at that time, the majority of central, southern and western (entire) Bosnia was of mixed religeons, with Catholicism being the largest (in all three parts). The Banata of Croatia was entirelz Catholic (with several local Hungarian Catholic majorities). HolyRomanEmperor 10:44, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Bosnian church - Bosniak bogomils

NO "joy" I don't want to understand anything you are saying since it all sounds so damn WRONG, the catholic curch is not a true source, since we all know that the catholic curch used to write falsehood about other religions in order to decline the other religion's identity. The bosnian church dissapeared as the turks came, IT DISAPPEARED SIMPLY because the bosniaks converted to Islam from their previous religion at that time BOGOMIL, but you do maybe believe that bosniaks where christians before converting !! BUT They never were and you know this, the bosniaks don't have anything christian in their history...Kulin Ban himself was bosniak and declared himself as bogomil in his writings...when will you realize that your lives are a big LIE.

how do you manage that?  ;)

You're consistent, and at the same time one day you're a Croatian terrorist and the next, Serbian.

Wheeeew.

Where is their gratitude? Zahvalnost. Blagodarnost. Whatever we call it. --VKokielov 02:04, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Ah, my talk page is slowly talking its turn into a nationalist propaganda location :(. Anyway, I am studying those infos up-mentioned, because I have doubts that Stjepan Kotromanić was Orthodox, I will inform thee in a day or two. HolyRomanEmperor 10:55, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

King Mihailo of Doclea

I think you will find this rather interesting:

File:Mihailo.jpg

HolyRomanEmperor 16:17, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

Jedan ti novi Hrvat (A Croat for you)

Robert Luketic Robert Luketić

I think you should leave the redirect on the diacritic variant - but it's, of course, up to you. --VKokielov 00:47, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Finally

I have finally got the pictures that I promised you. I will upload them soon. I have also noticed that Croatian language is back official in the Republic of Dubrovnik. P. S. Where/how've you been these past days? HolyRomanEmperor 17:22, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Clarifications

De Administrando Imperio does not mention Travunia and Zachlumia as a part of Serbia. It mentions Travunia and Pagania as a part of the Principality of Prince Časlav Klonimirović Vlastimirović. HolyRomanEmperor 20:18, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Tvrtko se smatrao naslednikom Nemanjića i vjerovatno je htio da se loza nastavi sa njim. To je razlog zašto sam ga stavio tamo. HolyRomanEmperor 20:33, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Novakovich

I added your name-sake Josip Novakovich. I don't think his name warrants a redirect at all.

I'm sorry they spell their names wrong.  ;) --VKokielov 22:13, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

I didn't find out anything new :) You must have misunderstood me. It seems that you think that my life's goal is to distance away Dubrovnik from Croatia. I don't. I only want the Serbian influence to be remembered as well. The dialect spoken in Dubrovnik is Serbian, and (even Ljudevit Gaj claims that) the reformed Croatian was based on the Serbian language. HolyRomanEmperor 12:45, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Duklja and other

Sources in here (hundreds of years old) claim that his name at the crowning was Stefan Tvrtko I Nemanjić. He didn't want to continue the Nemanjići dinasty. He did :) HolyRomanEmperor 12:49, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Clarifications: DAI claims that Prince Časlav ruled over Travunia and Pagania, not Travunia and Zachlumia. HolyRomanEmperor 12:50, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Will you clarify the Duklja and similiar articles (Travunia and Pagania, not Travunia and Zachlumia) Are there 430,000 Croatian Germans in Germany? HolyRomanEmperor 20:19, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Will you clarify the Duklja and similiar articles (Travunia and Pagania, not Travunia and Zachlumia) P. S. Are there 430,000 Croatian Germans in Germany? HolyRomanEmperor 20:19, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

I am out of YUBC (I wonder myself how can I even post here). Could you do it? HolyRomanEmperor 19:08, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

The reason why I posted that picture is that according to www.njegos.org, it depicts Mihailo receiving the Pope's insignia. P. S. Did you see the info that I posted to you that I had collected from Greece (regarding religeon of lands and rulers)? HolyRomanEmperor 20:20, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

I can't understand your opposal to Stefan I Tvrtko Kotromanić being regarded as a Nemanjić... HolyRomanEmperor 20:24, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Your Highness, Grand Turk, o Supreme Chancellor of the World,

Look at the bottom of Ashkelon: "The name shallot derives from the city's name." :D --VKokielov 01:44, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

That's Mark Twain's line from "The Facts in the Case of the Great Beef Contract."

I only thought that you would be interested :( Besides, I found out the international name for Zahumlje - Zachlumia. About Mihailo: (the lower is the description of the painting) although, I fail to see anything on the pitcure :S HolyRomanEmperor 12:09, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

The reason is the splitting of the two churches. The line went cross present-day Albania, crossing Kosovo, cutting a third of central Serbia and seperating Vojvodina (continuing then across Wallachia) I think that it is obvious. The splitting was made ridiculously. Luckly, you can't change the rulling family's religeon :) (or can, like with Stefan Nemanja) HolyRomanEmperor 12:25, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

About Vlastimir, we know. He is descendant from the dinasty that ruled excplicitly Rascia, but his realm also included Bosnia, which, with Croatian interregnums, was together with Rascia the default Vlastimirović domain. HolyRomanEmperor 12:57, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

vlastimir is the descendant from the traditional rulers of Rascia, we know that he included Bosnia. Rascia with Bosnia (which was also at various times Croatian-controlled) where the default Vlastimirović domain. HolyRomanEmperor 13:02, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

His heirs, Stefan (870-874) and Petar (892-917), expanded their rule over Travunia and Pagania, whcih then until the dinasty's extinction became it's traditional domain (a part of Serbia). HolyRomanEmperor 13:05, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Mutimir's reign (who actually never ruled, between Vlastimir and Stefan) signified total anarchy, failure. During his reign Trpimir captured Bosnia, while other lands were split by Byzantines and Bulgarians... (you get the picture) HolyRomanEmperor 13:09, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Petar Gojniković Vlastimirović (892-917) was the first Confederate Serb ruler (he founded the title Grand Prince of All of Rascias) He ruled Rascia, while all four states of the Seaside were subjected to him (he subjected Doclea and Zachlumia, while also giving special vassalage statuses to Travunia and Pagania). HolyRomanEmperor 13:13, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

As the Bosnian chieftains saw this as a weakness, they invited Tomislav to annex them. Tomislav was crowned as King and had a central rule, which satisfied the Bosnians. To satisfy the Bosnian nobility and gentry, Tomislav also gave Bosnia autonomy. Vlastimirovići lost Bosnia. HolyRomanEmperor 13:15, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

The next ruler was the third (after Stefan and Petar) that was Christian, Grand Prince Pavle Branović Vlastimirović of All of Rascias (917 - 910). He ruled the same as his predecessor, although brought a little more centralisation. HolyRomanEmperor 13:59, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

The next was the last Rascian-Serb ruler. Grand Prince Časlav Klonimirović Vlastimirović (927-950) He was the strongest. After Tomislav, the Croatian kingdom became increasingly weaker, so the chieftains of Bosnia seperated and returned to Časlav (Rascia). Časlav nominally ruled Travunia and Pagania, too, since it is known that he resided in those states. He used his Grand princely title to control Doclea and Zachlumia too. Although, the places over which he exerted control were Doclea and Travunia. HolyRomanEmperor 14:04, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Dubrovnik, Kotor, Bar and Ulcinj were Byzantine enclaves that had to pay taxes to the Serb confederate rulers (before that to the local areal rulers) and they governed the cities in Byzantine Emperor's name. Much like Tomislav with Trogir, Split, Zadar and the Dalmatian Islands (Krk, Cres, Rab.... etc.), only king Petar Krešimir IV fullz incorporated those lands into the Croatian kingdom. HolyRomanEmperor 14:10, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Dubrovnik, Kotor, Bar and Ulcinj were Byzantine enclaves that had to pay taxes to the Serb confederate rulers (before that to the local areal rulers) and they governed the cities in Byzantine Emperor's name. Much like Tomislav with Trogir, Split, Zadar and the Dalmatian Islands (Krk, Cres, Rab.... etc.), which were later king by Petar Krešimir IV fully incorporated those lands into the Croatian kingdom. HolyRomanEmperor 14:10, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

While we are there, you should look at Medieval Croatian state, it says Petar Krešimir IV ruled the Seaside: Pagania, Zachlumia, Travunia and Doclea(!) Delete that, please. HolyRomanEmperor 14:12, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

You asked for a reference about Tvrtko: HolyRomanEmperor 17:58, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

I hope this gives you some clue on the House of Vojislavljevići. HolyRomanEmperor 13:33, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

( I just saw Croatia, and user:Elephantus had returned the article to status quo like it was when I first arrived to this encyclopedia (remember the Dubrovnik part etc.?) HolyRomanEmperor 22:04, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Something is rather strange. I discovered that Stephan Kotromanić (and his next-in-line, also Stefan) were (Serbian) Orthodox Christians. What's more, I now discovered that Tvrtko I is also... Sites like that herzeg-bosnian have silently changed to exclude parts claiming his Catholicism, and decided only to incline his possibility of being Orthodox in one tiny part :S (I am confused...) HolyRomanEmperor 22:34, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Vlastimirović, not Vojislavljević, sorry. HolyRomanEmperor 21:49, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

You should know a thing: in Demographics, it says that Serbia has 140,000 refugees from Croatia and Bosnia. It doesn't. That is from Croatia number only, and it variates from 140,000 up to 150,000. HolyRomanEmperor 17:59, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Republika Srpska

Joy. If you have the ability could you please lock the article Republika Srpska. You would not believe the level of nonsense being talked about on discussion page. Thanks --Dado 22:00, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Pozdrav Joy, vidim da te je Dado kontaktirao. Jednostavno ja pokušavam od članka Republika Srpska napravim jedan neutralan članak koji neće biti uvredljiv za bilo koji od 3 naroda koji žive u Republici Srpskoj. Nisam imao ranije vremena time da se bavim, ali imam sada. Radi se o tome da sam istoriju Republike Srpske prebacio u nov članak - History of Republika Srpska. Pošto je najviše sukoba oko editovanja do sada bilo upravo oko istorijske sekcije, ideja je bila da ove sukobe bar preselim u taj nov članak i time sprečim ove stalne revert-wars oko članka Republika Srpska. Međutim, čini se da je to izazvalo nove revert-wars, jer mi se čini da gospoda Dado i Emir nisu zainteresovani za ozbiljnu diskusiju već za širenje propagande, koja ima za cilj stvaranje unitarne države BIH. Na strani za razgovor kod Republike Srpske sam to lepo objasnio. Ja nisam neki velikosrpski nacionalista koji želi nekavu veliku Srbiju, samo me boli ova nepravda prema srpskom narodu u Republici Srpskoj. Smeta mi to da se bošnjački nacionalizam toleriše i čak odobrava ovde. Moj cilj kod ovog članka je da članak bude zaista neutralan i da ne bude uvredljiv za bilo koga. Isto tako da se u članku ne nalaze navodi koji podržavaju ekstremističke ideje, bilo ideju velike Srbije, bilo ideju unitarne Bosne. Prema ustavu, Bosna je država 3 naroda i dva entiteta, i jasno je da ovakva vrsta propagande protiv bilo kog od ovih naroda ili entiteta nije prihvatljiva prema politici Vikipedije. PANONIAN 01:37, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Joy, evo samo da ti pokažem da Dado ili njegovi drugovi brišu moje postove sa strane za razgovor. To je očit primer vandalizma:

• http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk:Republika_Srpska&action=history

PANONIAN 10:51, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Croatia-related_topics_notice_board

Hi there,

You proposed creating of WikiProject Croatia to me, but I thought I would a overkill... now I found out about this RWNBs and it seems to me that Croatia-related_topics_notice_board would be acceptable solution, since I see there are some active Croatian wikipedians, and I think we might profit from coordination which would be possible with Croatia-reated RWNB... What do you think? --Dijxtra 22:51, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Rotacija

Kako zarotirat sliku? Luka Jačov 18:29, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

South Slavic languages category

Number of articles on South Slavic languages is now pretty high and I'd like to add Category:South Slavic languages as subcategory to Category:Slavic languages, possibly with subcategories on individual languages. The catch is, I don't know how :-) -- could you point me to relevant Wiki links or start the job yourself and let me finish it? Duja 08:28, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

I see Joy's bussy, so I'll give you a hint. Say you wan't to transfer Croatian language from ] to ]. You edit the article, find the line that says "]" (it's probably somewhere at the end) and, change it to "]". Than you save the article. And that's it. (I did it now, so you don't have to move Croatian language, you move all of the others ;-) ) Now, the problem is this category doesn't exist. So, I'll create the Categories you need for you, so you can fill them out for practice. There, I created 3 new categories for you: Category:East Slavic languages, Category:West Slavic languages, Category:South Slavic languages. Now you move the languages to their categories :-) --Dijxtra 14:29, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. I already figured out the first part, although I didn't know (and still don't :-( ) how to create the category. I'll probably do it on Monday (thank God it's Friday (TM)). Should I replace ] or merely add, since it's a subcategory already?

Replace. If x is subcategory of y, and if you add article to x, you remove y. --Dijxtra 15:45, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Pomoc neupucenom :)

E, da te zamolim (mozda znas neku precicu u odnosu na citanje obimne dokumentacije :) ) kako (i da li) traziti zastitu strane ako ona ne treba da bude menjana? U pitanju je sors emaila koji stoji u mom imenskom prostoru (), a koji predstavlja (delimicnu) dozvolu za objavljivanje sadrzaja tri sajta koja su posvecena albanskoj kulturi. --millosh (talk (sr:)) 22:41, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Hello. Have you got free time for our old talk? HolyRomanEmperor 17:03, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Hello. Have you got free time for our old talk? HolyRomanEmperor 17:06, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Bleh

The Balkans is an ugly place...Woe be me for ever sticking my head in!  ;)

Well. I'm hard pressed to sort the wolves from the sheep sometimes, that's all. Especially when the wolf happens to have some sheep in him. --VKokielov 02:06, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Bosnians

Care to take a look at Bosnians page and try to settle things down a bit? I tried to make sense of it but ultimatively I gave up from the nationalists' revert wars. (I understand that I'm being hypocritic for asking you to do something that I'm reluctant to touch :-D ). Duja 13:00, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Thank you, and hello!

1) One of my best friends is from Split. 2) Thanks for contributing to at least one of my initiated entries. 3) "Shallot" Tennyson reference? --Benn M. 10:23, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

So what does shallot mean?--Benn M. 01:54, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

History of Republika Srpska

Joy

Could you please take a look at the History of Republika Srpska article. Other administrators have tried to fix the situation, but I feel that its imperative that someone who truly understands the situation, like you, oversees it. Asim Led 19:13, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Liburnia

Hi Joy, I jave a question on Talk:Liburnia you might be able to answer. Peace, Alexander 007 23:24, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Mapa kneževina

Zašto sam zamenio mapu? Zato što na drugoj mapi ima grešaka i lakše mi je bilo da jednostavno zamenim mape, nego da sređujem ovu drugu u fotošopu (a ne vidim šta fali onoj prvoj). Dakle, koje su greške na drugoj: rečni tokovi su presečeni, a i brisanje linija nije baš najbolje urađeno. Čak mislim i da samo brisanje linija nije baš najbolje rešenje. Video sam tvoja dva argumenta za to: 1. da se ne znaju tačne granice iz tog vremena, pa prema tome ne treba ni linije da budu tu, i 2. da su granice Zahumlja bile drugačije. Što se prvog argumenta tiče, sasvim je uobičajeno na istorijskim mapama da se crtaju linije tamo gde se ne znaju tačne granice, jer linija u tom slučaju predstavlja približnu granicu, a ne potpuno tačnu. Izuzetak od ovog je recimo euratlas (primer: http://www.euratlas.com/big/big0800.htm), ali to je loš način prezentacije, jer prostor između tih država sigurno nije bio prazan. Bolje je imati liniju koja pokazuje približnu (makar i delimično netačnu granicu), nego imati fiktivni prazan prostor (koji u stvari nije bio prazan). Ja imam nekoliko istorijskih mapa koje prikazuju ove 4 kneževine, i na svakoj postoji linija između njih. Prema DAI, one su se naslanjale jedna na drugu, i mislim da zato ne treba da crtamo neki nepostojeći prazan prostor. Što se tiče granice Zahumlja, na ovim mapama što sam pomenuo, granica Zahumlja je različito nacrtana. Zašto tvrdiš da je ovde netačna? I kako ti predlažeš da se poboljša mapa? PANONIAN (talk) 14:38, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Ok, imam ideju kako da prepravim mapu: prepraviću je i uploadovati novu verziju, pa onda reci šta misliš. PANONIAN (talk) 15:04, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Message from HRE

Hello and welcome back, my friend! I am afraid that I must ask a favor from you, I have been blocked for 24 hours by User:Chris_73 a while ago. As you can see on http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RR I have violated the 3RR wiki rule, but if you see carefully my 4 reverts, you will see that I only returned the Serbian language in all four, and differently (so it isn't really a revert) plus, I have been reverting the enexplained changes of a certain User:Emir_Arven. So, I think that I have more that sufficient grounds for an appeal to my block. And I am asking you to start the process of my unblocking (since I cannot, and you are an administrator). This is an urgent matter. I can't wait to hear from you. Good luck. --Sasa Stefanovic 15:12, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

This is from HRE too : Tell me whar you think about my articles Duklja, Zeta (state) and Zorsines. --Sasa Stefanovic 15:29, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Odobrenje, Holi, Sasa i nalog

Sto se tice odobrenja, kako ti kazes da je obicajno pravo na engleskoj Vikipediji. Uzmimo, meni je logicno da se strane kao sto su tekst licence, tekst odobrenja i sl. cuvaju zasticene. Sa druge strane, nije neophodno, to stoji. Ionako vodim racuna o tome, a postoji i istorija. --millosh (talk (sr:)) 23:10, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Holi i Sasa nisu iste osobe :) Sasa ti je prenosio ono sto je Holi pisao na IRC-u :) --millosh (talk (sr:)) 23:10, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Cuj se sa Stemom da ti otvori nalog na serveru da ne bi sifre isle preko neta. Kad vec postoji mogucnost da se to uradi putem telefona :) --millosh (talk (sr:)) 23:10, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

E da, nisam ja taj za kojeg me smatras ;D on je dosao juce na IRC i zamolio me da ti ostavim poruku jer je on blokiran, i rekao je da veruje da ces mu pomoci jer te 4 izmene nisu iste kako on govori. Pogledaj jos jednom ako mozes da li je stvarno tako. --Sasa Stefanovic 02:01, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

This page HAS to be archived, Joseph. Mi and I have warned you several times by now (just a friendly reminder) :S And, just look at these pages Petar Petrović Njegoš was a Serb and then the page was vandalised by Emir. Then, we had Mesha Selimovich a moslem Serb writer, who is now a Bosniak that considered himself a Serb for the last 11 years of his life. Not to mention the Montenegrin anthem. And he keeps acusing me of everything! HolyRomanEmperor 15:35, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Isto, dodao sam nesto tamo o onome sto si ti stavio o Dubrovackoj republici, prijatelju. HolyRomanEmperor 15:44, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Isto, dodao sam nesto tamo o onome sto si ti stavio o Dubrovackoj republici, prijatelju. HolyRomanEmperor 15:44, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Tamo o historiji Hrvatske bi trebalo nagovijestiti da srpki izvori tvrde 250,000 izbjeglica za vrijeme Oluje, a da hrvatski kazu 50,000-90,000. No, isto treba reci da bi 200,000 bila najtocnija cifra ( i ) tebi cu to ostaviti... HolyRomanEmperor 15:48, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Did you know?

• That King Tomislav, Ljudevit Gaj, Josip Juraj Strossermayer, Stipe Šuvar and Latin (Ivo Andric is generally considered a Serb) are the most loved Croats among the Serbs?

• ...that De Regno Sclavorum (the Chronicle of the Priest of Duklja, Barski rodoslov)

claims that the Serbs built Dubrovnik (which later merged with Ragusa)? HolyRomanEmperor 16:04, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

• ...that Ivan Gundulić considered Alexander the Great of Macedon a Serb. HolyRomanEmperor 17:29, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

• ...that De Administrando Imperio and other sources keep Croatian continutinity in Singidion until Srijem's loss to Bulgaria in 926-927

Evo prepravio sam mapu

• http://en.wikipedia.org/Image:Principalities02.jpg

Reci šta misliš. Nema linija, ali ni praznog prostora između, nadam se da je ok kompromis? Ako je ova mapa ok, prepraviću i ovu drugu tako:

• http://en.wikipedia.org/Image:Serb_lands04.jpg

PANONIAN (talk) 00:28, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Moja korisnička strana

Evo druga mapa će verovatno sutra biti gotova (ima dosta posla oko nje). Nego, imam problem sa mojom korisničkom stranom, sa šablonom jezici. Prvo su se hrvatski i engleski nalazili na levoj strani, a kada je Jovan probao to da mi sredi, hrvatski se vratio u kutijicu, ali engleski je i dalje levo. Da li možeš to da mi popraviš ili da zamoliš nekog ko zna to da popravi da mi to sredi? PANONIAN (talk) 23:22, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Yugoslavia

I know nobody gives a shit, but think this might help matters when it comes to all them nat'nalists? --VKokielov 06:09, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Hello!

I have read many articles pertaining to Yugoslavia and (primarily about the Yugoslav wars during the 1990s) and i am fascinated. Why? I'm not really sure, i just want to know more of where i come from (for you see, i have traced my roots back to Croatia and i have become increasingly interested in Yugoslavia and all things pertaining to it). Oddly enough i even picked up a book about Balkan politics when i really dislike politics in general. Although I must say, reading about the former Yugoslavia during the 70s and 80s was an overwhelming experience, and to read about the downfall and disoulvement of it during the 90s, it really hits a chord somewhere, but since I am unable to directly talke with those who have either lived it, experienced it, or just listen to stories about it, so who betetr than someone who hails from there? Eh, what im basically asking is what is it like? What was it like? It dissapoints me that although people were able to put aside differences long enough to form a country that to me seems grand (at least from what i have read and interpreted) to a gorup of people who seem too prideful and arrogant (and in some ways a bit selfish, depending on what regions they come from) that they ruin a perfectly good country go to ruin andcause an unneeded conflict. Plus i also hope to see if i can somehow track down any (if there are any) relatives that might not have come to America.

Xns

It's not quite so simple; but simple enough is the fact that the Western perception of the Balkans as a safari is wrong. --VKokielov 16:49, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

I know this, although what i have read has been really westernized, this is why i am asking someone who lives there. This way, you will get a much more accurate image of it all. Although i must admit, the west does kind of sugar-coat some things here and there. Xns 17:21, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Popis hrvatskih gradova

Ispravio sam popis hrvatskih gradova. To su zadnji podaci, a ako te zanimaju općine njih imaš abecedno ili po županijama.

Pozdrav, Andrej Šalov 18:39, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

EffK is forced to Abandon a Corrupted Misplaced Pages

I refer you to my response of a few moments ago at 15 December ],http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/EffK/Evidence#3_December_2005 EffK 02:40, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Puting free images on wikipedia

Hi there... Just curious, why are you putting free images (like this one) on wikipedia instead on commons? --Dijxtra 16:42, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

forgotten answers

Nah, I've just re-checked the source. That part was just (Greek) Orthodox propaganda; all Kotromanics were Catholics, they just asumed a strict pro-Orthodox attitude after Tvrtko (crowned in Serb Orthodox monasteries). By the way, you gave no answer should Tvrtko be put amongst the Nemanjics in List of Serbian rulers, so I did not change it. HolyRomanEmperor 17:55, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Aleksandar Karađorđević or Alexander, Crown Prince of Yugoslavia

Any comments? Zocky 20:51, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Hrvatski maternji, Srpski srednje :) joj umrecu od smeha

OK, hajde molim te objasni mi kako to moze Hrvatski da ti bude maternji jezik, a kazes Srpski umes da pricas samo srednje? Bilo bi lepo da malo iskuliras sa guranjem hrvatskog nacionalizma i tisuceljetnog sna, a ako to ne mozes, onda bar malo iskuliraj sa anti-srpskim komentarima koje nevesto sakrivas optuzujuci Srbe za NPOV.

OK, could you please explain how it is that Croatian is your native tongue, and you state that your knowledge of Serbian is only at a medium level? It would be nice if you could chill out with the Croatian nationalism, and if this is not possible, then cutting down on the anti-serb comments, which are disguised as accusations of NPOV in Serbian users' articles, would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, and I hope that you accept this obviously true comment the way your, often justified, and always much appreciated, contributions to Serb-related topics have been accepted. Finally, I include the English translation, just in case you didn't understand the Serbian:) Get over it, it's Serbo-Croatian or Croato-Serbian, no matter how hard you try do deny it. --Bora Nesic 03:50, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

TfD nomination of Template:Infobox Biography

Template:Infobox Biography has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at Misplaced Pages:Templates for deletion#Template:Infobox Biography. Thank you. DreamGuy 07:20, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

I remember you asking proof on Serbs in Dubrovnik

... in the 18th and 19th centuries. Please read this: Srpska društva u Dubrovniku. Please bear in mind that I only wish to point the presence od Serbian culture there during that period of time; and respect it as much as I respect the Croatian culture in Vojvodina (this is actually not meant for you, but for those who see this post and attack me with a knife and acuse of being a Greater Serbian nationalist :) Hear from you soon! --HolyRomanEmperor 19:25, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Gle tko se vratio

Evo a ja sam gotovo izgubio nadu!

Stekoh prijatelja, i to na vašoj strani. Naime stekoh hrvatskih prijatelja. To jest, stekoh Elephantusa. Znaš ga?

Oh, i postadoh administrator na srpskoj Wiki. Velike li časti.  ;) --VKokielov 02:32, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Evo malo gore vidim da dok nisi bio prisutan, postao si i hrvatski nacionalista. Jok.

Oni svima daju administratorstvo, ali to ne znaci da ja uzimam slobodu u ovom pogledu. (Hey, Romanm sa slovenske je postao administrator tamo, pa sto ne bih i ja?) --VKokielov 02:51, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Falio si nama kad smo gurali zatvaranje srpskohrvatske Wiki, jer ona je postala Pokrajcev playground, barem donekle, u smislu da on i njegovi sakupljaju tekstovi s srpske enciklopedije i bez ddrugog pogleda ih stavljaju tamo. To, naravno, prilicno ljuti srpskih administratora. Bio je vote o zatvaranju, ali eto nismo imali "konsenzusa":

Još jedna stvar. Dok nisi bio ovdje, uhapsili su Gotovinu. Možda znaš?  ;(

Sada može odlanuti. Teret je odavle naprijed na drugoj strani. --VKokielov 03:00, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Answer bit-by-bit :)

Dakle, mogu ti sigurno tvrdit što je s Tvrtkom. On se krunisao u Mili 1377 godine, a kasnije iste godine u Mileševu, gdje je potvrdio svoj suverenitet nad Srbima.

Mogao bi doći i hitnu pomoć na sr.wiki Članak o Hrvatksoj je u zadnjih par dna bio zaključavan, otključavan, vandaliziran... Barem pogledaj ako ti se dade.

Vidio same te slike, i odgovorih ti na Talk:Croatia. Tada je mladi regent, 1925, mislim da je ta godina, naredio postavljanje spomenika u čast idolu njegova sina - 1,000 - godišnjica prvog (Jugo)Slavenskog kralja - Tomislava I Trpimirovića. Spomenici su postavljeni od Pule do Ulcinja, ako me pamet služi, samo su neki opstali. Taj u Dubrovniku, i još neki u Dalmaciji, pretpostavljam.

Serbs of Croatia i History of Croatian Serbs su već tute. Samo, čim su nastali, nastali su i controversies. Ako nijesi znao - Ruđer Josip Bošković je u zadnjih nekoliko dne ponovo postao čistokvrni Hrvat, pa srpski nacionalist, pa produkcija uma Vojislava Šešelja... itd. Mislih da je pravedno da ga uključim u sliku i spisak najznamenitijih Srba iz Hrvatske, no Elephantus i drugi garantiraju da je on Hrvat i nipošto išta drugo - pa mi ne ostaje mlogo šta :S (iako si mi čak ti rekao da mu je otac Srbin, a majka Italijanka :D.

Pogledaj De Administrando Imperio i vidjet ćeš da piše Belgrade. Srijemom su vladali Panonci (uzgred, evo napisah i Ljudevit Posavski), pa bio je kratko dio Kraljevine Hrvatske, jer ga 927 godine osvaja Simeon (oba Sre/ijema :), car Bugara. Nijesi Srbi sagradili Dubrovnik, već kako kaže De Regno Sclavorum iz Barskoga Rodoslova, ujak Časlava Klonimirovića Vlastimirovića, (obećavam ti da ću ti nabaviti i citat). No, da je Dubrovačku tvrđavu sagradio Kralj Duklje i Dalmacije Konstantin Bodin (Petar III) Vojislavljević u drugoj polovici XII vijeka - je opšte poznata stvar (uskoro je stavljam i na Duklja pogledaj taj članak kad budeš imao vrijemena)

? Gundulićeva nacionalnost nema veze što je pratio popularni srpski epski mit ("dokazan" od strane "nevjerovatnoga" povijesničara Jovana I. Deretića - ako nisi čuo o njemu - i nemoj! :) da je Aleksandar Maćedonski bio Srbin.

A, trenutno se interesiram za Bosansku povijest, pa napisah: History of Herzegovina, Matej Ninoslav, Prijezda I, Prijezda II, Kotroman, Stephen II Kotromanić i prepravih Kulina Bana, a i mnogo za Tvrtka ide uskoro.

I poslijednje, ali ne i najmanje: Evo ti nešto za razonodu. Mnogo odgovora daje zašto smo mi ex-yugoovci takvi. :D Iako su uglavnom odavde, 20% su skinuli sa HRT-a i RTL-a. Ovi najnoviji nisu toliko smiješni koliko prošli, pa ćeš morati da malo pretražiš.

Pozdrav! --HolyRomanEmperor 16:02, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

One more bit

Now, I have found some sources on Rudjer Boskovic, but fellow-wikipedians refused to put them, so I am asking you to check their verification:

• Virtual Library

• Ancestry of Rudjer Boskovic (which has already been discussed)

• Serbian Literature from Encyclopedia Britannica

• Rudjer Boskovic, Virtual Library

Regards. --HolyRomanEmperor 22:35, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Trebalo bi malo srijedit one prominent individuals sa Serbs of Croatia. Napravih mess :S

Nemam pojma. Vjerovatno ima veze sa onim poznatim "... gdje si god na pučini Jadrana, prvu stvar koju ćeš vidjeti je barem jedan spomen kralja Tomislava..." tako da se svuda sa Jadrana vidi. Samo ne razumijem kako se jedna pločica može vidjeti odatle :D

Slažem se s tobom u vezi Boškovića. Pa, ne žuri, no pogledaj te linkove. Za sada Elephantus i drugi vode ratove (iz kojih se davno povukoh), on vadi Ruđera sa Serbs of Croatia i List of Serbs, i mijenja Ruđerov članak - za sada stoji da je on vjerovatno Hrvat, ali da ga svojata uzizanje srpskog nacionalizma Srpske Radikalne Stranke kao na primjer Vojislav Šešelj :D (baš to piše :) a druga strana vraća njegove promijene. No, trenutno je u vođstvu, jer je mlogo uporan.

Gdje si čuo da je Ljudevit Posavski pobjegao u Srb? Stavih to, alo je Elephantus tvrdio da je to Srpski Nacionalistički Mit, pa izbacih. Uzgred, ako neko pročita Chronicum Venetum, De Administrando Imperio, Barski Rodoslov (s De Regno Sclavorum), i izvještaje brojnih povijesničara, pa i Jovana Skilice i drugih... naizgled izgleda zbunjeno i razbacano, no vidjet će se da ti dokumenti samo potvrtđuju jedni druge. Mogu ti čak objasnit ako želiš, no to neće biti kratak post :-)

Mislim da gledaš pogrešne snimke. Ne bih rekao da su policajci i voditelji (među njima i Tomislav sa RTL-a) neuki ljudi :D Isto ima i par sa duhovnim ljudima, a i jedan sa Miroljubom Labusom (jednim od političara).

E, to za Gundulića si potpuno u pravu. Ti na jugu Dalmacije su čas Srbi, čas Hrvati. Jedini način (što je, moram priznati, sramota) da znamo ko su i što su ako se proderu ko jeleni u sred trga Dubrovnika. :) Primjer (ovo su sve katolici): Grof Medo Pucić koji je pijevao pjesmu o Srpstvu Dubrovnika i otišao u Beograd gdje je napisao spomenike Srbske od uhh... negdje 14-15 vijek (srpska povijest u tom periodu).

Citat Milana Rešetara:

Зато ја још увијек тврдим, као што сам тврдио пред педесет година да се у Дубровнику није никада говорило, ни у њему цијелом ни у једном његовом дијелу далматинским чакавско-икавским говором него увијек само херцеговачким штокавско-јекавским. Ја не идем даље од тога научног резултата, а нећу никако да улазим у, нажалост, обновијени спор о српству или хрватству Дубровника, јер су мени Срби и Хрвати један народ под два имена, па ми је зато Дубровник српски и хрватски. Али ко дијели српство од хрватства мора признати да је Дубровник по језику био увијек српски.

Onda imaš onog fratra koji je pobijegao na ostvrlje i spjevao pjesmo O 'rvatima Dubrovnika itd. Now you get the picture :O) Pročitaj onaj link kad budeš mog'o o Srpskim Društvima i iskazi svoje mišljenje.

Samo još jedno pitanje. Da li je Hrvatska bila zemlje dvojnog naroda - Hrvata i Srba do 1990 (kao Makedonija - Makedonaca i Albanaca sada?) ili je nešto drugo u pitanju? Bog! --HolyRomanEmperor 18:34, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Comeback

Glad to see you back. I've begun to worry (possible health problems & all that) Mir Harven 14:06, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Što da se radi s ovim, http://en.wikipedia.org/Image:Velikasrbija.png ? To su stavili Bosanci, no, tih slika ima k'o šodera, ja se uopće ne sjećam otkuda je koja ? Mir Harven 18:09, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Molise Croatian

Good evening, I'm here to cross paths with you and bug you for a second time. Please check out my talk contributions on the Molise Croatian Language, .

Image Tagging Image:Tito.marshall.post-war.J.J..jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Tito.marshall.post-war.J.J..jpg. I notice the 'image' page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is therefore unclear. If you have not created this media yourself then you need to argue that we have the right to use the media on Misplaced Pages (see copyright tagging below). If you have not created the media yourself then you should also specify where you found it, i.e., in most cases link to the website where you got it, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the media also doesn't have a copyright tag then you must also add one. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then you can use {{GFDL-self}} to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media qualifies as fair use, please read fair use, and then use a tag such as {{fairusein|article name}} or one of the other tags listed at Misplaced Pages:Image copyright tags#Fair_use. See Misplaced Pages:Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other media, please check that you have specified their source and copyright tagged them, too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Misplaced Pages page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any unsourced and untagged images will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Admrb♉ltz (T | C) 02:26, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Archive

Might I suggest Misplaced Pages:How to archive a talk page --Admrb♉ltz (T | C) 02:27, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Sorry:)

Hi,

I've been thinking and feel like I owe you an apology for my rash personal attack with regards to the Croatian language delcaration. Though I still fundamentally disagree with your view, that was certainly not a way to engage in a civil discussion. I guess what ticked me off was the removal of the cyrilic from the Rade Serbedzija page (explanation, not an excuse:). In any case, I am sorry and I look forward to colaborating with you on articles related to South Slavs, for even if we disagree, I truly value your contributions and open-mindedness. Best regards, --Bora Nesic 04:23, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

p.s. If you or anybody you colaborate with on Misplaced Pages knows anything on the topic of Praxis school and the Praxis philosophers such as Milan Kangrga, we could really use some help on those pages. Thx.

Ljetopis Popa Dukljanina

Dakle, mogu ti poslati cijelu stvar. Nevjerovatno je zanimljiva - ali i velika. On navodi da koristi iz 753 De Regno Sclavorum koga naziva predanjem i naglasava da je dio o Svetom Konstantinu crkveno predanje, a za ostale stvari jemci. Jedino mi se ne svidja to sto u mnogo slucajeva ispada da je sin zivio nekada cak 200 godina prije oca. :D Dakle, napisano je na osnovu strucnog istrazivanja - ali izuzetno lose napisano, a ja mislim da je sve pokvario onaj koji je djelo preveo na Latinski jezik - koristio je pig Latin. :)

Dakle, Grgur je govorio sa nadahnutim patriotizmom i romanticarskim nacionalizmom, a samo djelo je na neki nacin bila propaganda - za gradjane Drzave koja rapidno izumire. Djelo je pojacavalo neovisnost Duklje od bilo kojih zemalja i posebno se uvijek koncentrisalo na Povijest Grada Bara - Barsku bitku je predivno opisao. Poslijednje redove je Grgur napisao dok je vojska Stefana Nemanje opsedala grad, a i sam Grgur je izgleda bio mocna figura tadasnjega Bara koja je imala veliku ulogu u odbrani i ocuvanju samostalnosti grada.

Stefan Nemanja ga je prognao iz Barske stolice, i ona ce nekoliko godina ostati potpuno pusta dok je Vukan Nemanjic ne objavi na zalaganje Pape. Grgur je izgleda otisao na zapad - pa se zato i tamo ocuvalo to dijelo. Takodjer, puna titula mu je bila Grgur, nadbiskup Barski, primat Srbije. --HolyRomanEmperor 14:22, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Image

Hi, Image:Linux.vollwaschmittel.jpg is not PD, because photographers own their photos, even if the photo is boring. :-) So we need the photographer in order to keep the image. Stan 03:05, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

the map of Western Europe

Hi, I am Flamarande. First, I want to thank you for the the map "Western Europe". It is a good piece of work, and I used as soon as I found it, in the article Western Europe. Alas, a "user with sharp eyes" noticed that Slovenia (between italy and Austria, northeastern corner) is painted in yellow. According to the article (which I reformed, and therefore agree with) "Western Europe" describes mainly the countries which were not part of eastern/communist bloc. Soo... could you improve the map, please? I would be much obliged, and hope for a answer. Thanks Flamarande 13:11, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Pro-Croat propaganda corrected--role of Roman Catholic church in genocide made clear

The Bleiburg massacre occurred near to the end of World War II, during May 1945. It is named after the village of Bleiburg on the Austrian-Slovenian border, near where the massacre began.

It involved mass murder of Croatian soldiers and civilians who were fleeing from the defeated Independent State of Croatia, an associate of Nazi Germany.

Although a still undefined number of Croatian soldiers died during a series of battles and skirmishes, it is generally accepted that the vast portion of violent deaths were the result of executions that lasted at least two weeks after the cessation of hostilities. The victims were Croatian soldiers and civilians, executed without trial as an act of vengeance for the crimes committed by the Ustaše regime in Croatian-controlled territories during World War II — frequently in overtly gruesome manner (mass rape and subsequent killing by stoning of Catholic Croat whores and beheading Croatian disarmed soldiers, albeit too few to make a real difference.

Emigration by Croatian Nazis to Canada and Australia with the assistance of the Roman Catholic church unfortunately could not be stopped.

DITTO

Ditto to the last comments; as an Irishman I am embarrassed that fellow Catholics like the Croatian people could do such things.

AodhBlathmac@eirelover.net 22:25, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately, the above "editor" is agreeing with himself, being one and the same person as 69.31.83.202 and the charming Aisling O'Cuiv (see this talk page's history) - both sock-puppets of Rms125a@hotmail.com. "Aodh" is neither an Irish man (unless he's "Irish-American"), and if he is a catholic, he, and the other socks of Rms125a, have shown a deep, deep, hatred of all things catholic. See Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Rms125a@hotmail.com. Camillus (talk) 22:36, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Joy, are you back?

Are you back? Also, I apologize for the misunderstanding caused on Red Croatia.

U potpunosti se slazem s tvojom rijecju. Ne znam u cemu je problem... Jedino mi smeta sto jos stoji da je Pagania/Narenta dio Crvene Hrvatske, kada to nigdje nije spomenuto.

Bog! --HolyRomanEmperor 13:08, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Eh; ja koristim moj nas pozdrav na wikiju vec mjesecima, a ti se sada cudis. :-D Hmm, pa vidi, oni koji prihvacaju postojanje Crvene Hrvatske garantiraju nepostojanje Paganije, pa zato ne bih kombinirao da pravim zabunu. No, ti idi kojim redom zelis. Ja cu cekati tvoje odgovore u vezi Rudjera, Ustava i Dubrovackih Srba do trenutka kada SCG udje u Europsku Uniju. :-D Gdje si bio do sada? Nisu valjda neki zdravstveni problemi (Mir mi je ukazao na to...).

A iskreno da ti kazem, rekli su da sam srpski Cetnkicki nacionalista (Emir Arven), da sam Srbomrzac i slicno (Nikola Smolenski), da previse volim Hrvato ko sto je Ivo Andric previse volio Srbe, da mrzim Hrvatske ustase iz sveg srca; .... pa mislim da ipak nije problem u meni. :D

P. S.

Stvarno bi trebao arhivirati ovu stranicu... --HolyRomanEmperor 20:25, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Survey

I am conducting a survey on Misplaced Pages and would like to invite you to participate in the study. I've posted a message on wikien-l, but here is the link again in case you are not subscribed to that list-serv. Thanks a lot for your time! --Mermes 01:30, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Re:

Pa, ja se sad speciziram za taj dio Povijesti; valjda nece biti problema... Kada god nadjes vremena, molim te da pogledas sukob o Rudjeru Boskovicu (na Talk:Rudjer_Boskovic). Ponovo je heat ta clanka. Zaista pocinjem da mislim da nema kraja.

Bog! --HolyRomanEmperor 15:36, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Re: eto me

Pa, ja se sad speciziram za taj dio Povijesti; valjda nece biti problema... Kada god nadjes vremena, molim te da pogledas sukob o Rudjeru Boskovicu (na Talk:Rudjer_Boskovic). Ponovo je heat ta clanka. Zaista pocinjem da mislim da nema kraja.

Bog! --HolyRomanEmperor 15:57, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

honorable member

you have been withdrawn.

COME BACK!!!!!111111  :) --VKokielov 06:30, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Hello Joy,

I very much liked your Eastern Europe map. I would like to use an enlarged version of it, but the file does not allow a lot of enlargement without getting distorted. Do you have a higher resolution version and if so, is there any way I can get hold of it? Thanks in advance!

Manuela

Eastern Europe map

Hello Joy,

I very much liked your Eastern Europe map. I would like to use an enlarged version of it, but the file does not allow a lot of enlargement without getting distorted. Do you have a higher resolution version and if so, is there any way I can get hold of it? Thanks in advance!

Manuela

Eng, Srb & Cro wikipedias on the history of S. Dalmatia.

You're becomming very popular:  :)))) --HolyRomanEmperor 18:20, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Eh, ma nema veze. Samo ti pokazujem koliko si slavan. :) Ja pravim jedan dug wikibreak (napisat cu jos samo nekoliko stranica o Trpimirovicima i Domagojicima, pa ti mi gledaj contributions i prepravi kada se pojave :) Previse stresa su mi nacinili ovi RfA-i. Jedan je skroz pokrenut ispocetka zbog vandalizma, pa tu su i POV-glasovi, itd. nikako da predje 66% support. :O) Mislim da nece uspeti, i zatrazio sam da me ostave na miru, ali ovi administratori koju se me nominovali inzistiraju da sve ide svojim tokom, pa ne daju. --HolyRomanEmperor 18:20, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Hmm... what's wrong with a list of famous Croatians? It was on Croatia's article once... --HolyRomanEmperor 14:46, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Roger. --HolyRomanEmperor 11:15, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Translation

Hi Joy. I've created the article Još Hrvatska ni propala. However, I can't seem to find an English translation of the song to include in it. If possible, could you translate it? I could try it myself, but I'd rather not butcher parts of it :-/. Anyways, if you're not interested, just tell me and I'll find someone else to do it. Thanks in advance. --Thewanderer 23:18, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Name of the Homeland war

You might want to join the discussion here: . I'm sorry for disturbance if you are not interested the discussion. --Dijxtra 12:36, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Just a question... (Yugoslavs)

Hi. Few days ago I deleted a link "Soviet people" from article "Yugoslavs" because in my opinion it didn't fit in there. Soviet people would refer to peoples in former Soviet Union. It seems naturally for that link to be on, for example, Estonians,Georgians, etc. Slavic peoples yes, but soviet!? Except that, the reason I deleted it is that it may cause confusion among poeple in USA or anywhere among people who don't know the circumstances in Europe so well. (I know that from expirience of a friend that was in the USA for a year). Obviously, you had a reason for putting link back, but I don't see it, so if you could just explain it, please. No hard feelings...

Ok, thanks for such a quick response. Bye.

Pitanje...

Halo, ja mislim da je van pameti da ima clanak Kozarska Dubica, koji je kompletna kopija clanka Bosanska Dubica. Ja sam masivno dodao teksta za "article" Bosanska Dubica. Moje mjesto rodenja je Bosanska Dubica zato znam mnogo informacije. Ja sam da se napravi redirect sa Kozarska Dubica na Bosanska Dubica (Kao sto je i bilo). Clanak Bosanska Dubica je od 2005 godine, a kopija Kozarska Dubica je od juce.

Hvala, Kseferovic

Evo ja sam uskočio pa vratio stvar na staro stanje i umergeovao Joyeve promjene. Neću da sudim koje je "pravo" ime, za to postoji WP:RM. Duja 22:34, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Da Silva i nacionalnost

Pogledaj koja je praksa na drugim stranicama Wikipedije. Igračima koji igraju za reprezentaciju druge zemlje od one u kojoj su rođeni stoji nacionalnost te zemlje. Zbog čega je to tako? Zbog toga što je zapravo jedina bitna stvar to što je igrač svojim igranjem za neku reprezentaciju na službenoj utakmici doživotno vezan uz tu reprezentaciju i više je ne može promijeniti. Znam da je to ne samo praksa na Wikipediji nego valjda ne svim medijima i stranicama vezanima uz nogometne klubove. Budući da nisam neki veliki nogometni fan sad kao što sam bio prije, namučio sam se da nađem primjer igrača koji sad igra nogomet a igra za reprezentaciju države u kojoj nije rođen. Imaš link na talk page-u od Dinama.

Dakle, ne radi se o tome šta je fer nego šta je službeno u FIFA-i. A službeno je da Silva Hrvat ma kolko to čudno zvučalo. Pozdrav! Jakiša Tomić 22:03, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Ajde dobro, stvarno ima tih katalonskih zastava kolko god hoćeš pa možemo stavit i dvije kod da Silve. Inače, nije poanta u tome da li je on promijenio državljanstvo (nije opće ni poanta u državljanstvu) nego u tome da znaš čiji je on reprezentativac. Ostale informacije su nebitne za nekog nogometnog gledatelja. Naravno, na stranici o da Silvi piše sve.

Da ne bi bio krivo shvaćen, ne mislim da će ikome naškodit ako stavimo zastavu Brazila kod imena da Silve, ali kad ja vidim dvije zastave kod imena igrača pretpostavljam da ima dvojno državljanstvo te dvije države i da nije još zaigrao za ijednu od tih reprezentacija. Bar ja tako na to gledam.

Inače, kad si mi već ukazao na Barcelonu (i na zastavice Katalonije koje su stvarno smiješne u kontekstu nogometa), kako bi ja mogao doznat čija je ideja to sa zastavicama uz imena igrača (općenito na stranicama klubova na Wikipediji) pa da se raspitam je li namjera bila da se kaže čiji je igrač (šta će reć reprezentacija i šta ja mislim da je ispravno) ili i otkud je igrač? Pitam jer ovaj kupus i nekonzistentnost nema smisla. Jakiša Tomić 23:45, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Skalić

Joy it is obična izdajica! Ili pak teški neznalica i ignorant kad kao netko iz Hr. dopuštaš i potpomažeš da se oko Skalića, koji je Hrvat i ništa drugo, stvara jalove kontroverze a sve zbog gluposti i ignorancije Anglo-saksonskih enciklopedija, koje Skalića konstantno trpaju pod Nijemca, Mađara i tko zna još pod šta. Samo da ne bude Hrvat- pobogu, kako bi bilo moguće da je neki tamo Hrvat izmislio takav pojam kao što je enciklopedija!!!

Pavao Skalić je nedvojbeno Hrvat, čemu bi ove neznalice iz VB i SAD-a trebalo poučiti, a ne potpomagati i daljnje ponavljanje gluposti kako se radi o Nijemcu i Mađaru. Na taj se način nikada ne će ispraviti takva glupost, koja se nažalost nalazi u mnogim stranim enciklopedijama! Razmisli malo o tome!

Rens via Pula

Trebalo je izbrisati čitavu referencu o njegovoj nacionalnosti- pobogu pa to je apsolutna glupost- umjetno stvaranje kontroverze!!! Neka se naša strana gospoda nauće već jednom da su neki podaci, kod njih u enciklopedijama NETOČNE BUDALAŠTINE!!! Oni imaju problema sa svojim zdravim razumom, neznanjem elementarnih činjenica, ali se usuđuju dodavati nekakve priloge na tekstu o enciklopediji i o Skaliću, dok se meni prijeti blokiranjem kada brišem te gluposti! A ONDA IM I TI IDEŠ JOŠ POMAGATI!!! PA GDJE JE TU ZDRAV RAZUM?!

SKALIĆEVA NACIONALNOST JE KONTROVERZA SAMO OVIM DEBILIMA SA STRANE WIKIPEDIJE!!! Zbog čega je i tebi, nije mi jasno!!!??? Zašto si vratio dio o nacionalnosti?! TO SU UBACILI OVI IDIOTI JUČER- I TO ŠTO SU ONI DODAVALI BI SE MOGLO SMATRATI VANDALIZMOM!

Rens

Sve što navodiš već sam jučer učinio. Argumentirao sam s njima preko 3 SATA, pružao im razumne argumente, lingvističke dokaze, činjenice, web stranice kao izvore, ali oni su se i dalje držali slijepo svojih "svetih" enciklopedija, umjesto da su pokušali barem malo razmisliti logikom zdravog razuma. Dakle, dok smo došli do toga da se ja zestim protekli su sati i sati uzaludnog debatiranja- objašnjavanja nekoga tko je upučeniji, ali nije bilo dobre volje da se malo razmisli i revidira očito krive informacije. Što mi ostaje drugo, nego pretpostaviti da je opet riječ o tipičnoj zapadnjačkoj aroganciji i egocentrizmu. Nadalje, ukoliko želiš, možeš im ti ponovno pokušati objasniti neke stvari, ali se ne nadaj puno u to da ćeš pronaći nekoga tko tamo zdravorazumski rezonira!

Ali, mislim da u svakom slučaju treba ukloniti podnaslov "Nationality" jer je čitava ta kontroverza utemeljena na gluposti i netoćnim podacima nekih Anglo-saksonskih i zapadnjačkih enciklopedija. Umjesto toga bi bolje bilo da se navede da u istim enciklopedijama (navesti ih) postoje netočni i zastarjeli podatci o nacionalnosti Paula Pavla Skalića i argumentirati zbog čega su netočni!

Srednja Europa

Dakle Shallout alias Joy Hrvatska je područje rubno Srednjoj Europi?! Pa ti stari nemaš pojma ne samo o povijesti (što vidim iz nekih drugih razgovora) nego i sa elementarnim zemljopisom. Svrstavaš jednu Srbiju, pa čak i Ukrajinu koja je daleko već na istoku prema Rusiji, u isti koš! Srbija osim krajnjeg sjevernog dijela, svojom glavninom nikada ni u kojem kontekstu nije pripadala Srednjoj Europi. Štoviše, stoljećima je dio onog istog "istoka" koji je više puta odigrao izrazito negativnu- destruktivnu ulogu upravo u pokušaju negacije svega onoga što je ta ista Srednja Europa. Naprotiv, Hrvatska je od svojih samih početaka uvijek na ovaj ili onaj način bila dio zapadnog kruga, sjeverni dio Srednje Europe, južni Mediterana. Ali je čak i južni dio usljed kulturnih veza i političkih prilika ( Dalmacija i Istra- dijelovi srednjoeuropskog Habsburškog carstva!) bio pod izrazitim srednjoeuropskim utjecajem (uz, naravno, dominantni mediteranski). Dakle, Hrvatska je barem svojom polovicom uvijek pripadala Srednjoj Europi, dok je drugi dio bio pod snažnim utjecajem iste. To nije zanemariva činjenica! Dakle Hrvatska je gotovo ravnopravni dio Srednje Europe, a ne nekakva granična zemlja!

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.152.209.97 (talk • contribs) 09:42, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Buduci da se nisi ulogirao i koristis privremenu IP adresu, odgovorit cu ovdje.

Ne znam tocno kako si to tocno zakljucio da ja ne smatram da je Hrvatska dijelom srednje Europe. Mozda zato sto u uvodu u clanak Croatia inzistiram da se spomene "bordering on" i srednja i jugoistocna i juzna?

Ako je to u pitanju, molim te shvati da nije poanta u rijeci bordering, nego da je poanta u spominjanju sva tri utjecaja a ne samo jednog, jer je bilo ljudi koju si inzistirali na spominjanju samo jednog (pogadjas - balkanskog).

I pozeljno bi bilo da s malo vise postovanja pristupas sugovorniku - netko drugi bi samo ignorirao cijeli komentar zbog onih besmislenih uvreda gore. --Joy 21:33, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

fans/Pratyush

Hi Joy

I am doing a project whereby I am interviewing 32 fans - one from each country ahead of the football world cup. Would you be knowledgeable enough to answer questions on Croatia? If yes, would you be willing? If not, then could you suggest some one else from Croatia?

Do email me at pratyushkhaitan@gmail.com

Thanks, Pratyush

Saints Wikiproject

I noted that you have been contributing to articles about saints. I invite you to join the WikiProject Saints. You can sign up on the page and add the following userbox to your user page.

• {{User Saints WikiProject}}

{{User Saints WikiProject}}

Thanks! --evrik 18:58, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Smile!

HolyRomanEmperor has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling to someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Smile to others by adding {{subst:smile}}, {{subst:smile2}} or {{subst:smile3}} to their talk pages. Happy editing!

Istrian villages

Hi Joy, I noticed your edits to some Istrian stubs I was working on a while back. In Croatia, when can a village be considered a town? What number of inhabitants does it need to have or is there any other criteria? Also, are Opcine always rural municipalities? Thanks in advance, E Asterion 21:05, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Please read the fine descriptions at List of cities in Croatia, Category:Villages in Croatia, Category:Towns in Croatia, etc. Općina just means municipality, so the answer to the third question is basically yes. I have preserved the notion of "small town" for many relatively urbanized villages, but in the categorization, they simply can't be considered towns, so they go to the village category. --Joy 23:25, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

OK, thanks. I cannot read Serbo-Croatian (oh well, with the exception of some greatly embarrasing tourist phrasebook bits :o)), so I work mainly from English translations, which are sometimes inconsistent in their usage. Cheers, E Asterion 21:14, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Recent edits

Please don't re submit my old commenst as I have deleted them for a reason. I don't have the factual info to back them up for now. They are my comments so i can delete them. I have now registerd while before I wasnt thats all.

Bog i Hrvati Evergreen Montenegro1 22:55, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Iam Montenegrin but I do like all the history on the former Yugoslavia in particular that of Serbia, Croatia and Bosnia. Its funny to read the debates over origin etc... What I will say is this we're all from Africa or Adam and Eve so I guess the debate is pointless. Most of the former Yugoslavia is like a Pizza...you will never be able to get all the slices. We're all too mixed. Eg Petkovic, Petkovich, Petkowski, Petkovski, Pekov, Petkova..same name and found in all Slav lands so no point pointing out were different.

Take Care Evergreen Montenegro1 23:22, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Drniš

About your edit I can say only this: "Keep up the good work!" Jakiša Tomić 14:52, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

I kwow this person was not "plain wrong". I just like the way you put all stuff in the right context. Jakiša Tomić 18:07, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Re: Mapa

Moja zamisao je da clanak Chronicle of the Priest of Duklja jednostavno mora imati mapu - neovisno od drugih clanak ili bilo kakve politicke propagande.

A sto se tice Hrvoja Vukcica - ah, the Father of Croatian Herzegovina & Duke of Saint Sava - by the end of the following week - I guarrantee that you will have a full House of Kosaca with every single person having its own article (check out the House of Kulinic in the meantime...) Feel free to make any other historical person wish whenever you want ;) HolyRomanEmperor 18:10, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Pogledaj pomen Crvenih Hrvata na History of Balkans. HolyRomanEmperor 18:24, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Dakle - zapocinjem House of Hrvatinić. --HolyRomanEmperor 20:55, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Jedno pitanje: Bi li bilo pogresno ako stavim "Croatian dynasty"? --HolyRomanEmperor 20:59, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Evo, kako ti se svidja? Zapoceo sam i Vukca Hrvatinića. :) --HolyRomanEmperor 21:52, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Template:Yugoslavia-stub

Hi Joy, I noticed you added the crvena petokraka flag to this stub. The thing is that as for this was meant to be for stub articles relating to Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia but also for Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes/Kingdom of Yugoslavia. So it had neither red star nor the royal coat of arms. Let me know what you think. E Asterion 09:29, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Fixed now. I saw the FRY flag and instantly changed it because of the nomenclature - the tricolor was indeed the same but it was confusing to see it. --Joy 11:06, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Looks good, thanks. E Asterion 16:31, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

I noticed you are using Category:Second Yugoslavia. Will you be setting a similar range od stubs too? It sounds like a winner to me (i.e. SFRY and Kingdom of Yugoslavia separate stubs?). My only concern is that there may be less than 60 stubs as per guidelines. Thanks, --E Asterion 18:40, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't think so, exactly because of that reason - there are probably fewer than 60 stubs per each category. --Joy 20:08, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Apology

other people's comments Please do not remove other people's comments from talk pages as you did on Talk:Neo-Nazism in Croatia. Once comments become old and irrelevant, they can be archived, but those comments were neither. Please read the Misplaced Pages:Talk page guidelines. --Joy 11:18, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Marinko" Sorry about this, obviously made an error - I had no intention of deleting any comments & wasn't aware that I had until you posted on my talk. Is there anything that I need to do to reverse the error?

Novi članci

Pozdrav. Primetio sam da na Vikipediji ne postoje neki važni članci vezani za hrvatsku istoriju. Pošto ja nemam dovoljno podataka da bi ih napisao, predlažem ti da ih ti napišeš:

• 1. Prvo treba napisati članak Kingdom of Croatia po ugledu na Kingdom of Hungary. Članak nikako ne bi bio isto što i History of Croatia ili Medieval Croatian state (na koji sada ide kao redirekt). Članak "Kingdom of Croatia" bio bi o političkom entitetu koji se tako zvao u jednom delu istorije, što nije isto kao istorija današnje Hrvatske (History of Croatia) ili srednjovekovne Hrvatske (Medieval Croatian state), jer pojam Kingdom of Croatia prevazilazi ove pojmove.
• 2. Drugi članak bi bio Banovina of Croatia (medieval), o srednjovekovnoj hrvatskoj banovini u okviru Ugarske. Sadašnji članak Banovina of Croatia govori o hrvatskoj banovini u okviru Jugoslavije, ali bi trebao da postoji članak i o ovoj srednjovekovnoj.
• 3. i treći članak koji treba napisati je Pannonian Croatia o Panonskoj Hrvatskoj državi. Na primer postoji članak o vladaru ove države (Ljudevit Posavski), ali o samoj državi ne. Moja ideja je da treba da postoji više članaka o istorijskim državama i pokrajinama sa područja bivše Jugoslavije, koji ne moraju biti ne znam koliko opširni, ali dovoljno je da postoje i da pružaju neku informaciju o temi. PANONIAN (talk) 16:03, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

P.S. Stvarno je vreme da napraviš arhivu od ove stranice. Ogromna je. :) PANONIAN (talk) 16:09, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Da ne otvorimo peticiju???? :D Dobro evo: ja sam ZA. Joy! Vrijeme je. Ne moras CIJELU stranicu arhivirati, ali tek odgrizi barem vrh, da bi bilo mijesto za disanje. --VKokielov 17:13, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

A da ga spamujemo sve dok je ne skrati? Na smjenu, po vremenskim zonama: kad zavrsimo mi s Balkana, VKokielov & američka ekipa se uključuje—neće moći disati od "You got new messages" ;;) Duja 10:10, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you

I hadn't realised how smart you had been on the handball disambiguation thing, you have saved hours and hours of time. I may now have a chance to reword the Slatina article! LeeG 22:11, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Neo-Nazism in Croatia

I have done a rewrite of the "Events and issues connected (actual or alleged) to neo-Fascism" in Croatia section & reverted the POV check tag that user:Purger took off. Do you have tie to review my update for NPOV.

Cheers, croatian_quoll 03:11, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

There

Archived. --HolyRomanEmperor 17:56, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Reverted. I like it this way, I get to see the entire history, and besides, people who wish to insult^Wtalk to me need to pay a token price first! :) --Joy 19:12, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Ministarka

Evo, sada su pljuvali na ovu hrvatsku ministarku poljoprivrede ovdje. Reakcija medju narodom je peticija da se ukine i legalno zabrani SRS u Srbiji. ;) Je li bilo slicnih situacija u Hr donedavno? --HolyRomanEmperor 17:58, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Sto mislis...

...o Crnoj Gori? --HolyRomanEmperor 18:46, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

OK. Sori za Archive - Nego, ima li koji ministar u hr Srbin, Bosnjak, Musliman ili slicno? P. S. sto mislis o CG? --HolyRomanEmperor 19:21, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Pa jes, bolje je - sve su to Crnogorci srijedili. Slobodan Milosevic i njegovi su Crnogorci, pa ne zaboravimo i Radovana Karadzica i druge. ;) Zelja za nezavisnu Crnu Goru se pojavila 2000 godine, kada oni vise nisu bili na vlasti u Beogradu (dosli Vojislav Kostunica i Zoran Djindjic). Onda 2003 naivni Srbijanci im dadose opet vlast - misleci da ce se vratiti u normalu - a lukaviji su oni, slijedeci prijedsednik bi vjerovatno bio Srbijanac, pa ne bi oni dali. ;) Svetozar Marovic je bio 3 godine predsjednik drzave na koju je pljuvao i za cije se rasparcivanje zalagao (gdje to ima? Stipe Mesic je izdrzao samo nekoliko dana - a kamoli godina ;). Kada bi Srbija nesto ucinila dobro (haski zlocninci), hvalio bi zajednicu, a za lose Srbijino - krivio bi nju a ne sebe. Kada bi Crna Gora nesto dobro uradila, nju bi hvalio - a lose okrivljavao na Srbiju opet. :D --HolyRomanEmperor 19:54, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Postoji jedan vic-strip ovdje. Srbija (zemljopisna predstava) lezi na fotelji kod psihijatra i govori: "Doktore, imam problem - ne uspevaju mi dugotrajne veze!" i drzi se za celo placuci. :))) --HolyRomanEmperor 19:59, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Mislim, Hrvati su mnogo naivni sto vjeruju. Za vrijeme rata on sam (licno) je napadao Dubrovnik; izjavio je da mrzi (i vise ne igra) sah zbog ustaske sahovnice - i da se jednom za svagda moraju uspostaviti granice Crne Gore prema zapadu - a ne ove Boljsevicke tvorevine. Onda je ubedjivao da je Milosevic los, ali da buducnost Crne Gore lezi s Srbijom za svagda. Posle toga ponovo mijenja politiku. A sada kada cujem da Hrvati krive Srbijance govoreci kako su natjerali jadne Crnogorce - jos ispase "jadni". :))) --HolyRomanEmperor 17:23, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Stepinac censorship

You would be well advised to read the discussion carefully yourself. Removing Budak from the explanation of reversal of war crime sentence (which is clearly political when the context is given) is censorship. As for what rant is that is clearly subjective. To me, all this story about Croatian righteous who saved the Jews is rant, while you might call exposition of context in which this war criminal was rehabilitated a rant. That is POV issue, and it is not resolved by deleting information you dislike and calling it rant. Maayaa 00:21, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Ministri

...sto ne odgovori u vezi njih? A postovi? Pa procitaj ono sto je DUja rekao i sve ce ti biti jasno. :) --HolyRomanEmperor 14:25, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Neonazism in Croatia

Regarding what you said at article discussion Neonazism in Croatia for the user (anonimous) 4.*... (that is not me, but likely Purger) - you said you were close to blocking him!? So, you are an admin, and threaten to block people in disputes you are involved in, and that on the basis of POV. Dont you think it is against wiki policies? Once you are involved in a dispute, you should not abuse (or even use) your admin powers - that is not what these are meant for. So, please state clearly - are you willing to ban people for holding POV other than yours, or even people that are involved in edit wars with you? If you are, say it clearly, so we can then seek a comment on that attitude. If you are not, withdraw your threats to Purger! Maayaa 13:09, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Pitao si me šta mislim o ovome (verovatno o ovome što si pretio da ćeš blokirati korisnika, pretpostavljam). Pa znaš kako, ja zato nisam ni hteo da se kandidujem za admina (iako su mi predlagali), jer bih došao u iskušenje da blokiram korisnike sa kojima sam u sporu. U stvari kad si admin, onda moraš da paziš koga blokiraš, pa čak i ako nekog sa kim si u sporu blokiraš opravdano, ne možeš biti siguran jesi li imao pravo da ga blokiraš ili ne. :) Ako pitaš mene da li bi bilo opravdano da blokiraš ovog korisnika ili ne, ne mogu ti reći, jer ne poznajem dobro pravila u vezi blokiranja korisnika. Po mom mišljenju, taj čovek te jednostavno zajebava, a ako je u skladu sa pravilima da nekog blokiraš zbog toga, onda treba raditi po pravilima. Sam članak je i napisan sa ciljem da predstavi Hrvatsku u lošem svetlu, a da li se od tog članka može dobiti NPOV verzija, u to čisto sumnjam. Uostalom gomila je sličnih POV članaka u vezi sa bivšom Jugoslavijom, vezanih za ratove i nacinalističke ideologije. Možda bi trebalo zamoliti neke neutralne admine koji nisu sa naših prostora da se pozabave tim stvarima.

Mda, ja o ovome razmisljam vec duze vrijeme. Da napravimo neki task force sastavljen od admina koji nisu s ovih prostora da uvede reda medju... nervoznije korisnike sa Balkana. Stvarno vec situacija poprima ramjere rata. --Dijxtra 18:19, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Što se tiče konkretnog slučaja, zamoli nekog neutralnog admina da ti pomogne u vezi spora sa tim anonimnim korisnikom. Inače, ako ne arhiviraš ovu stranicu, ja ću ti je arhivirati kad navratim sledeći put. Ozbiljno ti kažem. :) PANONIAN (talk) 16:02, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

I s ovim o arhiviranju se slazem :-) --Dijxtra 18:19, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

To answer your questiton: I think you are beating your head against the wall. But I also think that you're supposed to beat it a bit longer so you can claim you were so incredibly full of good faith. And then just proceed with your common sence. You are an admin because the community has trust in your actions. Keep that in mind. --Dijxtra 18:19, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Pa kažem ti, ako te grize savest, zamoli drugog admina da razmotri situaciju i da blokira korisnika ako ima osnova za to. Inače mrzi me da ti arhiviram stranicu, a pošto mrzi i tebe, nećeš se ljutiti. :) Inače nisam baš 100 posto shvatio da li me pitaš za mišljenje u vezi tog anonimnog korisnika ili u vezi spora oko sadržaja članka. Što se tiče sadržaja, ja ne volim baš previše da se bavim sadržajem takvih članaka kao što su "Neo-Nazism in Croatia", "Bosnian genocide", "Yugoslav wars", itd. Neću više da se bavim ni pitanjem statusa Kosova u člancima, dok se to pitanje ne reši. Mislim da je korisnije raditi na kvalitetu "ozbiljnih" članaka nego ulaziti u rasprave sa ljudima kojima je cilj širenje propagande a ne pisanje ozbiljnih članaka. PANONIAN (talk) 21:05, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

If you have not lost your motivation to improve such articles (and it is totally understandable if you have), you can also help with Neo-Nazism#Neo-Nazism_in_Croatia. --Zmaj 06:54, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

If you have time, pls review my rewrite of this article for NPOV. Note I have requested two other people to do the same just to get a cross-section of peer review. Thank you croatian_quoll 10:23, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Re: Please help...

To answer: You are just beating your head against the wall with people who don't accept compromise. There, satisfied? :)

I know how you feel. Just try to read the talk page of the Mehmed-paša Sokolović article. I have barely concluded the Orthodox Serbian or Orthodox Bosniak compromise - even though this altogether is very silly. Just look over its history and talk page, and you'll notice how Emir Arven treats "what Bosniaks think" as highly correct and relevant and what the whole world says "a Serbian fairy tale" (quote). He has pushed me so far that I stopped assuming good faith and even started to be slightly aggressive. This altogether has (while you were gone) ticked off quitte a number of Serbian nationalists (annons, etc.) who are simply frustrated that Rudjer Boskovic is presented as "claimed by Vojislav Seselj to be of Serbian descent" - while so little (even a lot less than in Rudjer's case) for Mehmed is sufficient for such claims. --HolyRomanEmperor 20:04, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Wikibreak

Hi! I'm attemting to make a wikibreak, at least during working hours :). Could you please block this IP for a month? Please. Ante P.

Well, I always have that IP when I'm logged. Does it means it's only mine? Ante P.

Alija bi bio ponosan

Good for you :-) BTW, feel free to dump it to your user page for everyone to see it (I avoid messing with other people's user pages). --Dijxtra 16:57, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

from Mumba1234

Hi,

Dont blame me because the admin of this site are not smart enough to properly ban someone being as this is at LEAST the 30th time i have had my ip blocked for between 1 hour to 1 day allowing me to come back the next day, heck some times they only ban my username allowing me to come back within minutes. I consider my self as a sort of learning tool to the admin of this site so that maybe they will relize that no one is going to take there blocks seriously if we can simply come back within a sort period of time every time we are blocked.

S&M  ;)

Did you mean ceci? Or did you mean celui-la?  ;) Careful; Babel knows to haunt. I wouldn't say it if I didn't know it first-hand.

It isn't correctness I'm after, but the general effect. Be careful when you shorten that way. It's the first thing I thought of. :D --VKokielov 04:07, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Maybe it's just because you have a dirty mind? :-)) Duja 08:34, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Maybe, or maybe it's the media. But in any event, it's not my distinction. --VKokielov 15:43, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Wate wate CNN. CNN?! As in, they called Serbia and Montenegro S&M?

That means America hasn't taken over the world yet. Congratulations. :D

Whatever the case, the question vanishes anyway, because very soon they will forget S&M altogether and switch to either Serbia or Yugoslavia for the "historical entity". --VKokielov 01:13, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Hrvatski ili mađarski nazivi

E vidi, nešto sam razmišljao oko naziva članaka o starim hrvatskim županijama: http://en.wikipedia.org/Category:Historical_counties_of_Croatia Nazivi članaka su sada na mađarskom ali mislim da bi trebali da budu na hrvatskom. Pogledaj ovo: http://en.wikipedia.org/Category:Counties_in_the_Kingdom_of_Hungary Tu možeš videti da nazivi članaka o starim mađarskim županijama sa područja današnje Slovačke nisu na mađarskom, već na slovačkom. Tim pre bi trebali da koristimo hrvatske nazive za županije sa područja Hrvatske-Slavonije, koja je bila autonomna u okviru Ugarske i gde je hrvatski jezik bio službeni. Nasuprot tome, Slovačka nije bila autonomna niti je slovački bio službeni jezik u pomenutim županijama, ali nazivi ovih članaka su na slovačkom. Šta misliš o ovome? PANONIAN (talk) 23:02, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

• Pa u jednom od istorijskih atlasa koji imam (ovaj je izdat 1970 u bivšoj Jugoslaviji), županije se zovu ovako: varaždinska, križevačka, požeška, virovitička, sremska, zagrebačka, modruško-riječka, ličko-krbavska. Naravno, sremska županija bi pre bila srijemska u originalu (ovaj atlas je ipak izdat u Beogradu). Dakle nazivi naših članaka mogli bi biti: Varaždin, Križevci, Požega, Virovitica, Srijem, Zagreb, Modruš-Rijeka, Lika-Krbava (ovaj zadnji se već tako zove). Srijem bi mogao biti i Syrmia, jer se i članak o sadašnjoj hrvatskoj županiji zove Vukovar-Syrmia County, mada ja nemam ništa protiv ni da koristimo naziv Srijem. Pored glavnog naziva kod naslova bi u zagradu mogli napisati nešto kao "former county" ili slično. Ja nemam sada vremena da se time više bavim i da učestvujem u razgovoru na Talk:Administrative divisions of the Kingdom of Hungary, ali nadam se da ti ovo što sam napisao može pomoći da ti nešto uradiš sa tim. Naravno ukoliko imaš volje i vremena da se time baviš :) PANONIAN (talk) 23:30, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Pa šta fali ovoj literaturi koju sam ti naveo? :) Inače, napisao sam komentar na Talk:Administrative divisions of the Kingdom of Hungary, a možda ću kasnije predložiti i glasanje o promeni naziva članaka (Ipak se sa ovim treba nešto uraditi). PANONIAN (talk) 23:49, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Inače zanimljivo je da članak Lika-Krbava već ima hrvatsko ime, jer je pravilan mađarski naziv za tu županiju Lika-Korbava. Ako se niko ne bude bunio na moj predlog na Talk:Administrative divisions of the Kingdom of Hungary, ja ću preimenovati i druge članke o hrvatskim županijama za nekoliko dana (da dam prvo ljudima vremena da prodiskutuju o tome). PANONIAN (talk) 00:14, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Template

Nego, imam i jednu molbu. Pogledaj ovo: http://en.wikipedia.org/Template:Portal Ako se razumeš u to, da li bi mogao da otkloniš grešku koja postoji tu? Template izgleda dobro na brovserima Internet Explorer i Firefox, ali na Operi izgleda užasno (na Operi je prelomljen na dva dela i levi deo šablona (gde piše portal) se nalazi u desnom delu stranice a desni deo šablona (gde se nalazi slika) je potpuno odvojen od levog dela i nalazi se u levom delu stranice. Pored toga, taj otkinuti desni deo šablona zaklanja i linkove u tekstu na člancima gde se nalazi). To bi stvarno trebalo popraviti, a ako se ti ne razumeš u to, da li znaš kome da se obratim da bi to popravio? Napisao sam o problemu na stranici za razgovor tamo, ali nikog nije briga. PANONIAN (talk) 00:26, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

AGAIN

Hey, hey, smiri se - postoje ljudi koje ne mozes ubijediti niusta - ali postoje i oni koji su razumljivi. :D --HolyRomanEmperor 15:45, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

A, pa mislio sam na Luku. :) Imas li vremena? Treba jedan problem da rijesim, no nemam mnogo uspijeha (odma' da te uputim - Jugonacionalizam). --HolyRomanEmperor 19:35, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Pa, neka - ide za sada dobro. Ali mog'o bi procitati Talk:Stephen_I_of_Bosnia i ostati kao posmatrac dok traje. Ako nastavi lose, ukljuci se. --HolyRomanEmperor 22:10, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Bosut i još nešto

Evo, napisao sam članak o selu Bosut, Serbia, pa je tu i ono što te zanima. Te podatke ne možeš naći na netu, ja sam kupio CD sa tim podacima u Beogradu, pa imam podatke o stanovništvu i etničkom sastavu svakog mesta u Srbiji sa popisa 2002. Inače, ti možeš da edituješ zaštićene članke, je li tako? Molim te pogledaj ovo, i ako ti nije problem samo ubaci tu mapu u članak: http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:AmiDaniel#Nakhichevan PANONIAN (talk) 20:49, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Pa nije sada poenta koja je mapa bolja, jer te dve mape ne prikazuju istu stvar. Ona prva je mapa administrativne podele, a ova koju sam ja nacrtao je mapa većih gradova. Nisam ja kriv što taj region ima samo jedan veći grad :) Kod Tatarstana sam ih stavio više: http://en.wikipedia.org/Image:Tatar03.png Samo ti dodaj tu mapu, jer ona prva ne pokazuje lokaciju glavnog grada (možeš kod mape napisati da pokazuje region i grad). PANONIAN (talk) 21:59, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Kod mape možeš napisati "Nakhichevan region and location of Nakhichevan city". To bi bilo najprikladnije. PANONIAN (talk) 22:01, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Ma dobro, sačekaću onda da je otključaju. PANONIAN (talk) 22:10, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Any advice?

Any advice (regarding that which I asked you some time ago). --HolyRomanEmperor 15:21, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, a zar ne bi bilo najbolje izostavit ih iz nacionalih povijesti? Ne pripadaju tu... A ako bi kojim cudom pripadali, onda pripadaju bosanskoj nacionalnoj historiji (cije nacije u biti danas nema), srpskoj (u neku ruku) i kojim cudom i hrvatskoj. Nije vrijedno pominjanja... --HolyRomanEmperor 15:33, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Eh, gledej ovako: Historija Bosne (i Hercegovine) jer je bio njen vladar. Historija Ugarske jer je to bio dio Ugarske Kraljevine. Hrvatska povijest jer je Bosna bila legalni fief Hrvatske i Subica; Povijest Srba (jer nema "Srpska povijest") jer je Bosna tada bila stvarni fief Srbije. A onda Bosnjacka historija jer su Bosnjaci imenovani po Bosni, a o uklanjanju ovih ostalih da ne govorim... Kapiras? --HolyRomanEmperor 16:00, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Dovoljno dobro? ;) --HolyRomanEmperor 14:01, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

from Ragusan

I am not as nostalgic as I am precise when it comes to entering ones contemporary country of birth (eg. Republic of Venice, or Independent Croatia for a place in Bosnia during 1942 etc). Saying that, I'm equally in favour of leaving out the country since the name of the town speaks for itself, and anyone who didn't know Kumrovec or Korčula could easily click the link. It's just that, when trying to tidy up Severina, I buggered up the year, 1971 instead of 1972 for which I apologise. Next time, I'll leave it to you without touching!! Ragusan June 28, 2006

oh no offence taken at all. I just felt that certain aspects and importance of usage would have qualified our Latinic script for a seperate entry. I placed a responce on Talk:Latinic. Thanks for taking an interest anyhow. Ragusan June 29, 2006

from PC

Done. Physchim62 (talk) 14:28, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Very uncivilised user

Hi,

Please see this.

I am shocked. Could you please block this guy? I feel very offended.

--Ante Perkovic 19:55, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Hahahaha... Cant you have a discussion?

Just because I dont have the same opinion as you doesnt mean that you can behave like that.

And to you Joy: Volim te Bosno!

Joy, are there some rules for users who might have physical problems or are just immature? I think that is the case here. This one doesn't seams to respond to logical arguments. It might be due to war trauma, problems in childhood or we might be dealing with a 12-years old. Whatever, I don't see the point in allowing this user to maltreat other users and vandalise articles. Can you, as an admin, do something about this? --Ante Perkovic 12:19, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi,

The idiot is insulting entire country (our country!). See here. Please, use some of your admin powers to get this idiot (I mean it!) out of wikipedia. --Ante Perkovic 16:47, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm

Kras? Bojim se da ni(je)sam. O cemu je rijec? --HolyRomanEmperor 14:14, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Usput, jesi li cuo za Ramba Amadeusa ikada? --HolyRomanEmperor 14:34, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Stefan Nemanja

Sjecam se da si komentirao kako je stub nevjerovatno mali - a sto kazes sada? --HolyRomanEmperor 20:39, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Name

E, ako hoćeš pogledaj ovo: http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Bozen-Bolzano#Wrong_name_of_this_article Taj članak stvarno ima pogrešno ime, a ja ne mogu da mu promenim ime jer na drugom imenu postoji redirekt. Ti kao administrator to verovatno možeš da uradiš, pa bih te zamolio da promeniš ime članku. Na svim mapama koje sam video (na engleskom jeziku) taj grad se zove Bolzano, i nema razloga da Vikipedija ovde odstupa od nekih standarda. PANONIAN (talk) 02:33, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Ma dobro, nemam vremena da sad komplikujem i pokrećem proceduru za promenu imena tog članka. Nisam čitao celu stranu za razgovor tamo, pa ako su Italijani već pristali da članak o gradu u Italiji sa etničkom italijanskom većinom ima nemačko ime, neka im bude. Opametiće se već jednom. :) PANONIAN (talk) 23:03, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

HolyRomanEmperor

Only the fact that you earned the same position he was trying to steal. --VKokielov 06:51, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

The meaning that - compared to me - you earned that position far more. All true, actually... --HolyRomanEmperor 09:17, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Re: Administratura

Well - your post was responded - almost a dozen were sockpuppets/new users/vandals; and there was a special irc channal created solely for the purpose of stopping the process. What's worst, one user openly admitted that he voted only because his friend voted like that - and starting balloting aroung the Bosnian wikipedia and elsewhere.

Now, really, as long as you don't support - he/she should not be an administrator. So please now just clearly make your statement - your word depends whether I'll stop it, or not. :) --HolyRomanEmperor 08:56, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

HRE has passed away to a better place than this one

Greetings. I am HRE's cousin. I have a sad news to announce (as per his brother's wish) - my dear brother-by-aunt is no more in the world of the living... It pains me enough to write this - so I'm just going to point you to HRE's talk page http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:HolyRomanEmperor#As_per_Your_.28Our.29_brother.27s_request. --Sad News 20:38, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

HRE RFA

Please do not edit this RFA, it has put under the protection of WP:OFFICE and requested that no edits be made. pschemp | talk 17:30, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Now I know what I'm doing I've reloaded it under another name - your are right that this is a confusing name for an image file and I never meant it to load up under this - it sort of happened before I realised it! Anyway it's now an orphan so can go. Thanks Sophia 18:25, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Pannonian Rusyns

Someones trying to purport that Pannonian Rusyn are a completely different ethnicity from Rusyns though the Rusyns page has an infobox that includes Panonian Rusyn as a minority abroad. I noticed your edit on the talk page and need some support for removing the infobox. We have adamant users who take political correctness of regional identities as overall ethncities too personally. Help! 72.144.68.226 00:00, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

WPFY has a new look!

Check out WP:FY. If you wish, you can add {{WPFY}} to your user or talk page to keep in touch with the project. Zocky | picture popups 17:53, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Maps of Bosnia

Hi,

user:Dado has created some new Bosnia locator maps, but without entities marked (except badly visible inter-entity line). I think this is a bad idea, so I created my own maps, with separate colors for each entity (we have that already, but those maps are in low resolution and small).

I couldn't reach a compromise with Dado, and I believe we need third opinion.

Please, see:

• Image talk:BHMunicipalities.png (talk page of Dado's map)
• Image talk:BH municipality location.gif (talk page of my map)

Could you please find some spare time to comment this. --Ante Perkovic 23:08, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Lupis

Hello Joy, I'm sorry to see that you deleted again some correttions of mine. Lupis (wolfes) belong to an aristocratic family of the Italian nobility. A brench moved to the south of Dalmatia and slavized the name in Vukic. Then they moved to Fiume/Rijeka and they italianized again the name in Lupis or Luppis (read the links I inserted). You should know that in that the time the city was a "Corpus separatum" (separated body) of the Hungarian Kindgom, and that the urban population was mostly italian. So, it's not correct if you put the italian name in minor evidence. The turn the name in Lupis was a decision of the family itself, not of some italian nationalist of the 20th century! Furthermore it's not correct if you claim that Lupis is a "croatian engineer". It was from Fiume/Rijeka that belong to italian and croatian culture, in the same time and it's not correct to apply the PRESENT national conditions to the past. You want to impose your point of wiew, and this is against the rules of wikipedia. I will restore my corrections, pleas don't delete them againg or I shall ask for the intrvention of a moderator.

Others: - in the History of the family, wrotten by mr. Marco Lupis, I've seen that he was born in Fiume/Rijeka and he dead in Milan. Just have a look (you can understand this). - It's not possible this story about "italian garibaldines", for the simple reason that they never had a navy. Furthemore when Lupis started to work to the weapons there were not "garibaldini" at all. So....

Anyway I've contacted the family and I hope they will tell thir correct point of view. BTW: the photo came direct from the family: they decided to write Giovanni Ivan Lupis, so don't change it. --Giovanni Giove 09:08, 9 July 2006 (UTC)--Giovanni Giove 09:08, 9 July 2006 (UTC) --- Feel you free to use my comments as you want. Next discussions will be on Lupis' page (as soon as possible).

--Giovanni Giove 11:35, 9 July 2006 (UTC)