User talk:Thewanderer - Misplaced Pages

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Re: Josip Juraj Strossmayer

Weird! Perhaps the database misrecorded someone else's edits, somehow. --Joy 20:56, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Re: 1991 BiH census Muslim vs. Bosniak

I put in Muslims by nationality because that was the most accurate description of the option shown in the census. However, I don't object to the changes, either, because it was only a couple of years later that the Bosnian Muslims changed their collective name to Bosniaks and since then the phrase "Muslims by nationality" is not accepted as a nationality in Bosnia and Herzegovina (as far as I know). Technically we could add a note to each of those premature mentions of "Bosniak" but it makes little practical difference. --Joy 21:07, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

Was the Una-Cetina line border between Croats and Serbs in the Medieval Ages? HolyRomanEmperor 15:56, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Moving of List of Bosnians

Hi there... you forgot to vote ;-) --Dijxtra 13:20, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Hercegovina

The answer to your question can be clarified by simply putting it as if hercegovina is a part of Bosnia. It's a common misunderstanding to believe that hercegovina and Bosnia are two differenten countries, but however the case is not so, Bosnia counts for the whole surface of the Country while hercegovina is just a part of Bosnias surface. Oh gush I maybe complicated it, you could say by other words hercegovina is just a county within Bosnia. Damir Mišić ~(oh yes btw. please put up headlines on my disc. page and don't just write messages with out a headline)

Ime drzave Bosne I hercegovine se je malo izkompleksiralo, ali jedan licnost je ako bi se Hrvatska zvala "Hrvatska i Dalmacija"...Damir Mišić ~

No, sjeti se Hrvatska i Slavonija koja je postojala od 19 vijeka do ukidanja 1921 novim ustavom Srba, Hrvata i Slovenaca. HolyRomanEmperor 17:56, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Uffff...skoro ce HolyRomanEmperor da svede cijelu Jugoslaviju za sobom. --VKokielov 03:13, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Category:Croatian_history

I think that we need this category; I have included the Category:History_of_Croatia on numerious articles (Duklja, Zahumlje, Travunia), but it would be somewhat incorrect. Why can't we have Category:Croatian_history so that we can place it everywhere and end were there is a presence of Croatian historical legacy (i. e. Boka Kotorska, Kosovo, Vojvodina). Could you make that category? --HolyRomanEmperor 19:21, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Thank you very much. :) Could you please put that category on those my articles to the up (I don't really have time)? And there are a lot of other articles that should have that instead of Category:History of Croatia. Bog! --HolyRomanEmperor 13:29, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

OK, samo imam mali problem. Duklja se nije nalazila na teritoriju trenutnih granica Hrvatske, vec samo kada se proširila na zapad, jednom prilikom i do Knina. Da li onda da taj članak sadrži Category:History of Croatia ili Category:Croatian history? --HolyRomanEmperor 22:10, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Herzegovinians

Because I believe the statements in the paragraph just aren't correct. The term (Bosnians) hasn't been "recently" applied to Herzegovinians because Herzegovina has been just one part of the Bosnian political unit for centuries. Thats why you'll find numerous mentions of people from Herzegovina since the late middle ages who are also referred to as Bosnians. And nothing has been "limited to the Bosniak population" - I know this from personal experience. Three fourths of my family originate from Herzegovina and I still have lots of relatives in Konjic, Mostar, Stolac, etc. There's definitely a strong sense of regional pride among them that I think is no less than that among their Serb or Croat neighbors.

Regarding the article, I don't mind there being some sort of mention of this strong regional pride I described. However, I don't agree with the previous version which made it seem as if the term "Bosnians" was being forcibly applied and was without historical basis. Live Forever 01:41, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Hi there, Thewanderer,

I came across your discussion about Herzegovina and Herzegovinians and though a couple of points could help clarify the matter. As always, all matters Balkan and, more specifically, Bosnian and Herzegovinian, are complicated and clouded by recent events.

But, as Live Forever has pointed out, the region of Herzegovina was part of Bosnia until Stjepan Vukcic Kosaca took the title of Herzeg, after which the region he more or less controlled became known as Herzegovina. Kosaca himself, and those around him, were most prominent amongst the proponents of the Bosnian identity and "state" (he, of all Bosnian nobles, was the one known never to have wavered from his faith in the Bosnian Church, amongst other things, and never converted to Catholicism, which was one of the key points of contention between him and King Stephen Thomas), so, paradoxically, Herzegovina was more of a political formation created in defence of these views (and Kosaca's power, of course) than anything else.

So, the interesting thing (when you say that many Herzegovinians would never consider themselves Bosnians) is that such attitude is in fact more recent, than it is to call Herzegovinians Bosnians. Having said that, they have a strong regional identity (and Kosaca died a long time ago, :-)), which nobody denies anyway, but nobody applies 'Bosnian' as some forced upon, unifying identity to them, it's just one of those parallel historical and cultural references so often found in the Balkans and in Bosnia (so, when you read Petar Kocic, for instance, whom many Serbs consider to be a quintessential Serb - though of the Bosnian "variety", :-), you will find that he refers to himself and his people as Serbs and Bosniaks as an interchangeable term, eg see "Jazavac pred sudom"). This only becomes problematic when one starts to apply recent political and highly politicised (and emotional) approach to B&H, but has no "grounding" in the B&H culture and history. Hope this helps. Cheers. Fomafomich 05:39, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Hi there, and thanks for your response. I haven't read the article you were writing, just left you a comment as an aside. We don't disagree on anything, what I am explaining here is that there are parallel (and some not so parallel) references to the inhabitants of Herzegovina as Zahumljani, Travuljani, Neretljani, Bosnians, Herzegovinians, Hrvati, Srbi, etc, etc ... and that, in saying that Herzegovinians are part of Bosnian cultural or political corpus is something of a historical and cultural process captured by spoken tradition, not a matter of intended offence to Herzegovinians (in other words, I was saying that whoever said it probably didn't mean to offend).

It is very clear to anyone observing contemporary political situation in Herzegovina that Herzegovinians object to being called Bosnians - and even Herzegovinians, for that matter. Whether Hum, or Iliricum, or Herzeg-Bosna or whatever else, came first or second or third, is not of personal interest to me, and neither is fighting over whether those who lived there 800 years ago had more or less right to the region than those living there 600 years ago or those who came 400 years ago.

So, what I was saying is that there is a historical consensus that Herzegovina (and, as a result, Herzegovinians) are called by that name since Herzeg Stjepan. Historically speaking, it is interesting to me how Herzegovina, from being the heart of the very existence of Bosnia during Herzeg Stjepan's times, became the opposite of that. And, as for Bosnians and Herzegovians, what I am saying is that using "Bosnian" as a reference to everyone living there is more a matter of persistence of oral tradition based on historical referencing (thus my comment about Herzeg Stjepan and Petar Kocic), than a matter of some insiduous and offensive political referencing. And if they should be called Zahumljani or Neretljani or whatever, rather than Herzegovinas, or Herzegovinians rather than Bosnians, so be it. And in any case, I don't have the naming rights, :-). Best, Fomafomich 15:26, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Ofcourse

Ofcourse. You only needed to ask, without that hidden insult between the lines. ;-D

AFAIC, most Serbian historians argue that Vojvodina should not be considered a portion of Croatian history because they view the population as insignificant, notwithstanding that Srem was a part of Croatia at periods. --HolyRomanEmperor 17:20, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Have you got some useful sources on the History of Herzegovina? I like how the article is currently going but its still poor; so we'll need to act fast not to let it end like a ready-to-delete stub. Any help that you can through's useful! Bog! :)--HolyRomanEmperor 16:11, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Wait a minute...

OK, OK. I'm seeing but bad between-the-line word waves over here (you know what I mean). :(

The Eastern Herzegovina is actually the boring bit. What's really interesting is the soil between Mostar and Ston; which is a 1,000-year cultural heritage, and no one talks about it (although, a lot is known about it.) Regards, and I hope that your negative impression will disappear like morning darkness! Bog! --HolyRomanEmperor 15:30, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Just wanted to say...

..."hvala" for the HSS Infobox. Will locate and insert logo soon :) Greetingz from Iasi in Romania (don't ask), nepTune 15:11, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Portal:Croats

Wow, you're rushing for a wikiproject, and I just created this shell: Portal:Croats. --HolyRomanEmperor 12:34, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Messenger

Do you use any messengers? I prefer this type of comunication. Luka Jačov 16:54, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Its even better. I ll be on Serbian wiki IRC channel till now. Luka Jačov 18:34, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

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I don't know what to do

Serb vandal Bormalagurski has asked his pro-Serb admin friends to help him, spamming talk pages with trolling and personal attacks, protecting the page and contrary to all rules blocking users who revert such Serb vandalism and personal attacks on their own talk page. He posted a "warning" threatening me with being "blocked for disruption" because I voted against his admin candidacy, and he and others have engaged in revert war to keep the Malagurski trolling on the user talk page. For example he also wrote on the talk page "Allow me to make an impersonation of you: Serbs are guilty for everything. All Croats are saints. I love my pope, who let's me get away with everything. I'm so Serbophobic that I can't even allow Serbian posts on my user page. That's why I voted for the deletion of the article "Serbophobia", because it doesn't exist." . They are also conspiring to enforce their POV. See "User:Croatian Historian" and "Revert war" at User_talk:Bormalagurski, as well as User_talk:Purrger (one of their sockpuppet accounts) for some evidence (lots more may be found). They use large numbers of sock puppets. I don't know what to do. Admin candidacy of Bormalagurski failed for obvious reasons, but it seems some people like him were able to get enough votes. This is a very serious problem for those who oppose the massive Serb nationalist vandalism on dozens of articles and Greater Serbian anti-Croatian propaganda articles.

Template

This user participates in
WikiProject Croatia.

Hey, I made a template for everyone who's a part of this project! Put it on your user page, maybe more people will join when they see how cool it would look on their page!!! --M.B. 01:05, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

User:WikiMB

Just a short note to let you know that User:WikiMB is, in all likelyhood, another account that has been opened by User:Bormalagurski. Given the number of his edits and the approach he is using he is probably aiming at eventually getting adminship at Misplaced Pages which User:Bormalagurski failed to secure on a couple of attempts for all the known reasons. Needless to say, this would have interesting consequences on our efforts to maintain articles related to Croatia. I had suspected this for some time, but I didn't have any proof until yesterday (April 2) when User:Bormalagurski made a mistake of deleting a Luka Jačov's comment left on User:WikiMB's discussion under Re:Template. Luka Jačov appeared 5 minutes after this deletion and left a slightly modified comment. Pretty interesting tempering with another user's page on the part of User:Bormalagurski. Of course, User:WikiMB re-appeared 5 minutes later as if nothing had happened to add another PR remark. For more info check WB's history page]. EurowikiJ 12:20, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

This is a follow-up on the note that I have left above. The administrator on the check-user page has decided not to conduct a check on the User:Bormalagurski and User:WikiMB. Though my claim was based on a chain of strange edits that took place on WikiMB's discussion page on April 2 and certainly not on any editing pattern, the administrator concluded that "Just from looking at the contributions I find it unlikely that these two are sockpuppets of one another; they appear to me to be distinct editors.". Hence, the request was denied and the accounts in question were not checked. For User:Bormalagurski and User:WikiMB's reaction(s) and arguments, please see the entry at Request for Check User page, WikiMB's and my talk pages. EurowikiJ 09:06, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Hey

You're the only one to whom I'm writing this. I've lost trust in the only person I've trusted, and I have no where else to turn. I've joined Misplaced Pages at the advice of my friend Boris Malagurski with a goal of helping out with Croatia-related articles, but now I've been accused of being a sockpupped of Boris, by EurowikiJ. I'm not asking for anything from you... I just had to say this to someone... I feel really bad right now... So far, Misplaced Pages has been a really fun experience for me, now... Well, thanks for reading this. Sorry to bother you. --M.B. 23:58, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

You can't imagine how much I appreciate you taking the time to give me words of helpful advice. The request for CheckUser was denied, and now I have to work on clearing my name to others... I must admit it will be hard for me to forgive EurowikiJ for what he has done to me, but in time, I hope we could cooperate in making Misplaced Pages a better place for everyone. Once again, thank you for taking the time to give me advice. --M.B. 00:37, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Re:POV tag at Boka Kotorska

Ofcourse. Any of those you mentioned are more than sencible. In fact, I placed the wrong tag. It's not POV, it's just silly. Just think of it, a geographical site (a bay) and having a section named by a foreign country.

Deside what you think's best. All the best! --HolyRomanEmperor 20:23, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Re: WP Croatia

Hi, I saw the Misplaced Pages:WikiProject_Croatia/Policy, but I find it too general; all of it is already summarized in various WP:Pages. You might as well wrote "behave nice" :-). By the way, I didn't see too much Serbian/Croatian/Bosnian edit warring recently; the things seem to relatively quiet up (maybe because Nikola Smolenski and Emir Arven are inactive :-)? ). The most active Serbian and Croatian editors in the last days are mostly reasonable (if PoV-able on occasion). (Disclaimer: I don't watch many, if any, pages related with Yugoslav wars.) That isn't to say that the articles are good overall, just that extreme PoV pushing from the past is being replaced with moderate PoV-pushing. (Btw, we're having problems with several Kosovar editors recently; the Kosovo-related articles – which I don't care much about – are Serbian-PoV-ed, but they apply tactic "shoot first" instead of discussing).

But I'm digressing – as for general Serbian/Croatian/Bosnian consensus, we'd better have an agreement on guidelines regarding specific issues. For example, there was much debate on ethnic affiliation (and, even more, wording) for Nikola Tesla, Ivo Andrić, Meša Selimović, Ruđer Bošković etc. A guideline could be e.g:

Avoid specifying ethnic affiliation of the person in the introductory section. If it's inavoidable, use the broadest possible ("Serbian/Croatian", "Yugoslavian") or a geographic one ("from Dubrovnik"). If necessary, discuss the ethnic background or claims thereof in a separate section.

Also:

Accept that some members of your nation have performed war crimes and other bad things. Accept that it should be mentioned (and particularly, who concretely is responsible for that) in relevant articles in a NPOV manner. Don't use WP:POINT to write that e.g. "Xs are war criminals" in all X-related articles.

Etc.

Do you have a specific example of recent edit warring? Duja 18:15, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

The confunsion over me...

that you have is enigmous to me... I categorize myself under Category:Wikipedians in Serbia and Montenegro, because I live in Serbia and Montenegro. My two houses (one of them being my birthland) are in Slovenia and Croatia; while I was born in actual Croatia, my family originates from Montenegro from my mother's side. And yes, if you must really now, I converted to Orthodoxy from Catholicism officially long ago out of mere solidarization with my college-freinds. I said "Well, what the heck! It's all Christianity."

I have no idea why you barge me like that, but didn't you ever think that your he is obviously a Serb I find insultive. Trully and faithully yours, --HolyRomanEmperor 19:02, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Nah, I'm very hard to offend. :) No hard feelings at all! It's just I would like that people would really state what's wrong at times, and not just blantly state that it's wrong. If you hadn't noticed I have talked to everyone over everything, and every time the agreement was orchestrated by me. But sometimes, like in the case of Euro, I talked to him twice, and he ignored both my comments. You see, the only way to interpret that is by you-know-what-way.

Sincerely yours.

P. S. When are you going back to edit the History of Herzegovina? You're needed there! --HolyRomanEmperor 18:34, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Re: jhnp

I can give it a shot, but I can't make any guarantees that I won't butcher it as well :) The translation won't rhyme, that's for sure... --Joy 12:32, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Hercegovci

Kako se Hercegovci osjecaju kad je njihovo ime podrijedjeno Bosancima? --HolyRomanEmperor 18:11, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Well I totally agree with you, and that is what I want you (or someone else) to write in the article; the true connection and the historical geographical meaning of herzeg-bosnia. Damir Mišić

KK Split

Zahvalio bi ti šta si napravio clanak. Bilo je stvarno sramota šta ga nije bilo i imao sam u planu to napravit. Jakiša Tomić 22:52, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Please, the Bosnian region Herzeg-bosna existed a long time before the people there even began to call themselves croats. Herzeg-bosna is a geographical region of Bosnia, thought about mentioning this in the article? Damir Mišić 01:16, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Request for Comments on Borovo Selo raid

Please add your statement on views at the top of the talk page in the designated area. Asterion 05:28, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Pitanje za Hercegovca

Kak' se Hercegovci osjecaju kad je njihovo ime podrijedjeno Bosancima? :) --HolyRomanEmperor 20:24, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

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???

O čemu ti pričaš? Samo pokušavam da sredim kategorije Federacije, jer je neshvatljivo da još niko to nije uradio. O kakvom ratu izmena i diskusiji pričaš? PANONIAN (talk) 02:03, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Church of Sibenik

You have reverted my changes. If you will do it again, I will contact a moderator to inform of your vandalism. --Giovanni Giove 19:26, 11 July 2006 (UTC)