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Oncenawhile

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Oncenawhile

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Greyshark09 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 23:14, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Oncenawhile (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

WP:ARBPIA

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 21:00, 19 November 2014 A clear violation of 1RR
2. 05:19, 19 November 2014 2nd revert, nearly breaching 1RR (25h08m after previous revert)
3. 04:11, 18 November 2014 First obvious revert
4. 06:13, 17 November 2014 First edit in the sequence

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

1. 15:26, 14 July 2014 Warned by user:EdJohnston "Further unilateral reverts may lead to a topic ban from ARBPIA." per AE
2. 12:18, 28 January 2014 Warned of ARBPIA sanctions by user:Callanecc

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Oncenawhile is an experienced editor on wikipedia, whom i have encountered a number of times in the past on various topics, most notably Mandatory Palestine and Kingdom of Iraq - in one case we even had a positive collaboration despite initial disputes. In the past year, however, Oncenawhile has initiated a wide-scale editing campaign of several pages, associated with the Arab-Israeli conflict, driving a very specific agenda, which may well be interpreted as POV. Following an incident on the Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries in January 2014, Oncenawhile was warned of ARBPIA (as well as myself) due to slow-rate edit-warring. At that point i proposed him to retire from that article in line with myself; however he continued to aggressively edit Jewish exodus and several related articles, getting a much more serious warning in July 2014, after edit-warring user:Plot Spoiler over 1950–1951 Baghdad bombings. It seems that Oncenawhile has edit-warred since with several more users including user:Ykantor and user:Wlglunight93 on Jewish exodus through September (6 reverts) and later October (3 reverts in October ,,, the second of which is not far from breaching 1RR). Considering the currently reported edit-warring on Jewish refugees, i herewith raise the concern that Oncenawhile may lack the ability to properly advocate his position, and despite previous warnings shows an aggressive behaviour, most of which is merely destructive in terms of content and community collaboration for the highly disputed topic of ARBPIA and more specifically Jewish exodus and Jewish refugees.GreyShark (dibra) 23:21, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested - notified

Discussion concerning Oncenawhile

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Oncenawhile

I'll respond to Greyshark's accusations as I am hoping to clear the air with him. While I prepare that, could someone kindly point me to where the rules for these AE or edit-warring discussions are written? I feel quite poorly treated, having been summarily blocked within just over an hour of Greyshark's submission without an opportunity to provide any context or other input. So I would like to try to build consensus in the rules on this to ensure no other experienced editors are treated like this in future. Oncenawhile (talk) 16:02, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

EdJohnston, please could we keep this open until I have had a chance to have my position heard? The two warnings both relate to complaints opened by me against the same editor (Plot Spoiler) and were given without fault being assigned. Oncenawhile (talk) 11:17, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Hi EdJohnston, thanks for your comment below. I am still unclear whether the block was ARBPIA 1RR violation or a broader WP:EW violation, but either way the block feels unjustified. Either way, there are key subjective judgements involved here that have not been discussed:

• If it is viewed to be a breach of 1RR, the question is whether the article was covered by ARBPIA given there was no template notice, and surely the views of the two experienced and consenting editors involved at the time should carry some weight? It seems harsh to apply a "bright-line" penalty with this subjective judgement "clouding the bright line" (if you'll excuse the mixing of metaphors).
• If it is viewed as a WP:EW violation, then it is strange that no-one has acknowledged the cordial edit comments, good faith adding of sources, and moving to talk. Frankly the good faith and cordial nature of the interaction appears to have been ignored altogether.

Also no-one has responded to my questions regarding (1) speed of judgement (my first comment above), and (2) concerns re AE-warring (per our discussion on my talk page). I would really appreciate some thoughts on these points.

Finally, I have not responded to Greyshark's good faith but misleading characterisation of our historical area of dispute above. If anyone feels it would be helpful i would be delighted to dissect it.

Oncenawhile (talk) 21:50, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Hi EdJohnston, I respect your view but extrapolating your point to the extreme, if every AE accusation was met with an immediate judgement and block (as happened here in just over an hour), then we shouldn't have a structure set up to allow comments from the accused and from third parties, because such discussion is pointless. Have I misunderstood you?

Either way, I would like to ensure there has been as fulsome a consideration as possible here, in order to "set the record straight". I would particularly like to hear views on whether my behaviour broke the "spirit" of the rules.

Oncenawhile (talk) 18:33, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Hi EdJohnston, ok, you've (almost) exhausted me into submission. For the record, and acknowledging your view on the 1RR point, could you please clarify whether, (a) you believe there was actually disruptive behaviour or real edit-warring here, (b) you believe there was NOT actually any disruptive behaviour or real edit-warring here, or (c) whether you are consciously choosing not to take a view on this.

I know you've ignored most of my other questions, but I would really appreciate at least this one to be answered. If I accidentally trip another technical line in 6 months time, I expect an unfriendly editor will go to some lengths to portray this incident in an unfavourable light, so a clarification for posterity would be helpful.

Oncenawhile (talk) 19:36, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Hi EdJohnston, thanks for replying. I recognise this is academic and you are tired of my questions, so I hereby submit to my ignominious fate, with thanks for your humouring my persistence.

Having said that, I can't help but note that in reaching your conclusion you did not acknowledge the evidence in each of my edit comments and the talk page of "trying to resolve the disagreement through discussion". To my mind your chosen interpretation of edit warring therefore appears to be in direct contraction with the first line of the WP:EW policy.

Anyway, any chance as a parting gift you could point me to where i can bring up the point in my first comment above re admin guidance on giving editors time to respond to AE accusations? I really would like to ensure others don't suffer the same fate. Oncenawhile (talk) 20:20, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Huldra

It is noted that Onceinawhile edit-warred with User:Wlglunight93. Note that Wlglunight93 was a serial sock-pupeteer, now blocked. The two last reports here were about this very disruptive sock. I don´t know about the rest of Onceinawhile´s behaviour, but edit-warring with Wlglunight93 should surely not count in his dis-favour. Huldra (talk) 23:33, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by ZScarpia

In the content dispute between Oncenawhile and Galassi, the statement that Oncenawhile was seeking to remove, and Galassi to re-insert, was not cited to any source. It really shouldn't have been re-inserted without giving a citation.     ←   ZScarpia   18:15, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Greyshark09 (editor filing complaint)

It is my duty to clarify that the issue here is a complaint on alleged systematic violation of ARBPIA by Oncenawhile, which is justified by recent edit-warring with Galassi. The reason i complained on Oncenawhile alone and not on Galassi is because of the 2 recent ARBPIA warnings issued for Oncenawhile (Galassi has not received any warnings on ARBPIA so far, so he should first be notified). Since the administrators consider it rather a simple case of edit-warring and not a systematic abuse of a topic by Oncenawhile, i support the actions and request the users involved to refrain from edit-warring. On my behalf i'm not participating in editing ARBPIA related pages intensively, but i do watch certain pages and topics and will continue doing so for the better of the community. Regards and wishing positive editing experiences for everyone.GreyShark (dibra) 16:14, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Oncenawhile

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

This appears to me to be a content dispute between Oncenawhile and Galassi, who have been going back and forth for a few days. As such, I've locked both for 48 hours for edit-warring (as an ordinary admin action, as Galassi had not, until now, had a formal notification of the discretionary sanctions and the article and its talk page did not contain the relevant notices). I'm a little concerned that the filer would report one part to an edit war in an attempt to have them sanctioned under arbitration remedies, while informing the other party in a way that (to me) smacks of canvassing and certainly taking sides, if not outright tag-teaming. I'm open to persuasion that there are wider issues with Oncenawhile's editing in the topic area, but I'not convinced by the evidence that's been presented thus far. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 00:46, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

I think that's the best approach for now. I've had a quick look through Oncenawhile's recent contribs and I can't see anything which would obviously warrant further sanctions. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 07:47, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

User:HJ Mitchell's 48 hour blocks of the warring parties seem to be enough to deal with this complaint, so I suggest that it be closed now without further action. Both editors are now on notice of the discretionary sanctions. User:Oncenawhile is a bit too warlike in these encounters though it is the second time I perceive him treating the sources more carefully than the other party. For instance, trying to get the definition of a refugee correct. (Last time was July when he was warned about the 1950–51 Baghdad bombings). Nonetheless if we see Oncenawhile at this board again for the same kind of thing a topic ban should be considered. EdJohnston (talk) 06:51, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

I had a further discussion at User talk:Oncenawhile to try to understand what the editor said above about 'having my position heard.' This did not lead to anything that seems actionable here, so I renew my suggestion to close this. EdJohnston (talk) 06:13, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

User:HJ Mitchell may be unable to comment before this thread closes since he has not edited since 21 November. If Oncenawhile had been able to make his argument earlier (that Jewish refugees should not be subject to ARBPIA) it could have made a difference in the 1RR finding. (I personally consider it a stretch to think that 1RR does not apply; Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries is obviously a topic in the I/P conflict and anything involving Jewish refugees post-1948 seems to fall in the same category). Since the block has already been made and lifted and no discretionary sanctions were imposed, I'm not sure what purpose further discussion would have. Since there is no topic ban there is nothing to appeal. Even if the block were found unjustified it is almost unheard of to expunge blocks from the log. EdJohnston (talk) 17:10, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

User:Oncenawhile, the 1RR is a blunt but effective remedy to slow down edit warring on articles that are believed to be troublesome. To avoid 1RR problems, just be careful. We are not likely to spend a week debating this further, when it seems to be a closed issue, and you are not under any restrictions. Having good intentions won't protect you from remedies if you choose to work in a troublesome area. EdJohnston (talk) 18:42, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Oncenawhile, in answer to your latest comment, yes I think the 1RR was in effect and that this behavior was indeed edit warring. If I were the first admin to look into it I probably would have waited longer to see if you wanted to respond. Since you were blocked right away you didn't have time to object that 1RR didn't apply, even though it is a stretch to make that argument. I believe you were edit warring both technically and in reality. Putting this behind you is the best choice, since your reputation is mostly intact. EdJohnston (talk) 19:48, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Asilah1981

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Asilah1981

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Huldra (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 21:48, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Asilah1981 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

WP:ARBPIA

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 19:56, 24 November 2014 Insert new text,
2. 10:35, 25 November 2014 Insert same text again,
3. 20:46, 25 November 2014 Insert same text 3rd time,
4. 21:18, 24 November 2014 change wording from "engaged in clashes in Aden that killed at least 82 people, both Arab and Jew" to "attacked the Jewish community in Aden that killed at least 82 jews "
5. 10:09, 25 November 2014 repeat above
6. 10:51, 25 November 2014 repeat above a 3rd time

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

• 17:54, 25 November 2014 ARBIA warning

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Newly registered editor who shows no interest in following the 1RR on some of the most contentious articles on the Israel/Palestine area. Have been given opportunity to self-revert, but refuse to do so. Huldra (talk) 21:48, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

• Notified

Discussion concerning Asilah1981

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Asilah1981

Hi guys. Contrary to the users who have reported me, I am not an activist user on the Israel/Palestine debate (I have and never will edit articles related to Palestine and Israel - unless they directly make mention to this topic). My focus is ensuring that sentences in the article say exactly what the quoted source say. Obviously if all available sources says that 82 jews were killed in one of the worse anti-jewish massacres in the Middle East, I find it insane and overtly POV that certain activist users wish to change the sentence to "both arabs and jews were killed in clashes in Aden" (PLEASE check sources on this before forming an opinion). I'm not sure how Misplaced Pages deals with users manipulating and overtly lying about information provided in sources, but I hope there is a mechanism to control them beyond the 1 revert rule. My edits and contributions over the past years have largely been in non-controversial issues (mainly arabic dialectology and other languages I know) so Im not very acquainted with activist users. I happen to have stumbled upon this massive campaign to delegitimize ethnic cleansing involving user Oncenawhile and others, which I see the worst offender is already being dealt with above. I see those who have reported me evidently belong to this group of people who are trying to conceal historical fact provided in reputable sources using illogical arguments: "out of scope" etc... Here are a couple of examples btw: Denying religious persecution and massacre in Yemen: Illogically removing sourced sentence on jews escaping to Europe and Americas because it goes contrary to POV being pushed (that they were all leaving voluntarily out of love for Israel and were never persecuted/persecution is a "zionist lie"). I am assuming that the reaction would have been much swifter if we were dealing with the European holocaust and any campaign to deligitimize or deny it (a criminal offence in Germany and France, I believe) on the basis of Middle East conflict, so I hope there is no double standard and that North African and Middle Eastern Jews and their plight is treated with the same care by wikipedia community. Anyways, thank you for allowing me a chance to provide my position. Regards.

(talk) 09:26, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Zero0000

Here we see Asilah1981 removing sourced information with a false claim about what the source contains, and here we see Asilah1981 adding entirely fake page numbers for it. (The pages given do not mention the events they are cited for.) Editors who lie about sources are more dangerous to the encyclopedia than common vandals. Zero 22:57, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Note that Asilah1981's reply ignored the charges of repeated 1RR violation, and also ignored my specific charges of lying about sources. I'm happy to provide a copy of the source to any admin who wants to check—just send me email. Zero 10:34, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

@WarKosign: that link supports my charges. Zero 13:09, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

@Nishidani: The page numbers she added were 85–124. They contain two chapters on Law, Customs and Economy, and the first page of a chapter on 1930–1939. Nothing about the violent events of 1947–1949. Zero 13:19, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by WarKosign

@Zero0000: Here is the claim. The page number is off (maybe it's a different edition of the book), but there is a big difference between mistake in citing and lying. WP:AGF. “WarKosign” 11:04, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Nishidani

WasrKoSign. That sows confusion, and you have totally missed Zero's point. Zero's diffs show it is the same edition (Brill 1996). The first diff shows Asilah1981 replacing Zero's edit which cites Parfitt twice for 2 distinct facts, deaths (p.167) and accusations re two Muslim girls' death, with arrests (pp.187-91), with a rewriting of the text, and the erasure of those page numbers. The second diff by Asilah1981 shows her supplying pages from Parfitt, but the page range is indefinite, unspecific (pp.182-124). Thirdly, Asilah1981's two diffs cite exactly the same edition of Parfitt BRILL 1996. (One might add that the actual numbers of Jews killed in Aden were 76, not 80/82. The difference in the figure is due to the fact that 82 bodies were found, 6 were unidentified ethnically, but presumed to probably be Jews, as Parfitt says on the page Zero cited (p.167 n.17.(Idem Bat-Zion Eraqi Klorman, Traditional Society in Transition: The Yemeni Jewish Experience, BRILL 2014 p.106)

In sum Asilah1981 erased highly precise page numbers for each claim, then rewrote the text without page citation, then came back with a vague page ref that fudges. There can be no justification for editing like that: it just wastes time for people who actually read books, and cite them exactly. One cannot edit these pages with a monocular ethnic eye, eliding as Asilah1981 did the specific indication that 33 Arabs died in the clashes (these events are complex: we ignore the 4 Indian Muslims and a Somali killed, that a Jewish sniper probably shot dead an Indian Moslem doctor and a 'Levy' soldier on 4 December, and the crucial fact that many Jews killed were not simply killed by local Aden 'Arabs', but by local levied troops under British command, who abused their functions by acting on their own). People who write off the top of their heads, and edit to shape an ideological reading of history, who erase precise data and replace it with unverified, vague source assertions are a bane that rots the work of the few people who take this encyclopedia's ambitions seriously.Nishidani (talk) 11:53, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

'Where did I erase highly precise page numbers for specific claims?.'here. This has got nothing to do with activists with a Jewish pogrom suppression remit (!!!!) or whatever. This is about scholarly precision and scruple. Please don't be disingenuous, or bury a serious list of damning diffs under a WP:TLDR screed. Nishidani (talk) 17:05, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Cptnono

or SPI. Waste of everyone's time here.Cptnono (talk) 12:28, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Asilah1981

Not sure if Im allowed to comment again, but a conversation seems to be going on here, so I assume that I am. I think we are missing the point. Those editors who have reporting me and supporting this case notably Zero000, seem to be using as an argument that I have misquoted Reuben Ahroni's book by stating the number of jews killed during the Pogrom (82, I think). Through his edits, Zero000 is using this source to claim there was no massacre of jews as such, just riots which killed arabs and jews. This is all the more surreal considering Reuben Ahroni's baby brother was murdered in this pogrom and no reputable source (let alone Reuben himself) deny that the violence was directed at jews, that at least 82 jews died and the vast majority of those killed were jews. Here is a source on this (see page 1) . It is as insane as quoting Ana Frank to deny the holocaust, and in my frank opinion this type of concealed POV pushing using fake sources should be the focus of this discussion, not whether I have or have not got the pages wrong during citation. The entire book is written on the premise of my sourced statement, it mentions it on various pages, including the first one, and not one page of it denies it. Thanks again. Asilah1981 (talk) 16:14, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Actually I have just gone through my contentious edits and note I made one mistake, in one of my edits I mistakenly quoted Parfitt instead of Ahroni and therefore gave the wrong page numbers. Zero000 was adamant on ensuring information which he knew was true to be excluded from the article and repeatedly reverted to the denialist version. In any case, Parfitt refers to the pogrom on numerous pages in the book and uses this term (at least part ot it is available in Google Books so this can be verified). Denying racially or religiously motivated massacres and ethnic cleansing on wikipedia is an ugly hobby, Zero0000.Asilah1981 (talk) 16:22, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

@Nishidani: Where did I erase highly precise page numbers for specific claims? I do not recall doing that at any point, and I don't see it in the evidence brought against me. I have only rewritten unsourced fantasy statements. No doubt I have broken the 1RR, I don't deny that, but I had never come across it before. Btw, the second half of your statement, regarding an indian muslim which was "probably" killed by a jewish sniper is frankly sick. What the hell? What do you want, all the bodies to have their noses measured to call it a pogrom? Some people, really... Asilah1981 (talk) 16:40, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Oncenawhile

Whilst Asilah1981's heart may be in the right place, (s)he needs to learn to WP:AGF, as her various talk page and edit comments show. Another example of this is at this talk page.

Asilah1981's passion tells me they could be a good contributor, but they need to begin to trust others here, learn to collaborate, and learn to read existing sources properly. So far Asilah's edits have been almost exclusively destructive, because they are not using sources properly. Apart from the point Zero brings above, it is the deletion of existing well sourced scholarly text which I find most disturbing - for example . I suspect Asilah1981 has simply not read the sources they are deleting, for which there really is no excuse.

Oncenawhile (talk) 19:54, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Result concerning Asilah1981

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