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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by EdJohnston (talk | contribs) at 17:55, 29 November 2014 (→Result concerning Asilah1981: Closing with no action). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Oncenawhile

Asilah1981

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Asilah1981

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Huldra (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 21:48, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Asilah1981 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

WP:ARBPIA

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 19:56, 24 November 2014 Insert new text,
2. 10:35, 25 November 2014 Insert same text again,
3. 20:46, 25 November 2014 Insert same text 3rd time,
4. 21:18, 24 November 2014 change wording from "engaged in clashes in Aden that killed at least 82 people, both Arab and Jew" to "attacked the Jewish community in Aden that killed at least 82 jews "
5. 10:09, 25 November 2014 repeat above
6. 10:51, 25 November 2014 repeat above a 3rd time

• 19:47, 24 November 2014 add text 1st time
• 10:19, 25 November 2014 re-add text. Note that since this complaint has been filed, Asilah1981 continues to break 1RR.

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

• 17:54, 25 November 2014 ARBIA warning

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Newly registered editor who shows no interest in following the 1RR on some of the most contentious articles on the Israel/Palestine area. Have been given opportunity to self-revert, but refuse to do so. Huldra (talk) 21:48, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Cptnono: good point, but WP doesn´t really leave any alternatives, does it? (Recall "no fishing rules" of SPI). If all I/P articles were semi-protected, we could avoid this. Cheers, Huldra (talk) 22:10, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

• Notified

Discussion concerning Asilah1981

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Asilah1981 (1)

Hi guys. Contrary to the users who have reported me, I am not an activist user on the Israel/Palestine debate (I have and never will edit articles related to Palestine and Israel - unless they directly make mention to this topic). My focus is ensuring that sentences in the article say exactly what the quoted source say. Obviously if all available sources says that 82 jews were killed in one of the worse anti-jewish massacres in the Middle East, I find it insane and overtly POV that certain activist users wish to change the sentence to "both arabs and jews were killed in clashes in Aden" (PLEASE check sources on this before forming an opinion). I'm not sure how Misplaced Pages deals with users manipulating and overtly lying about information provided in sources, but I hope there is a mechanism to control them beyond the 1 revert rule. My edits and contributions over the past years have largely been in non-controversial issues (mainly arabic dialectology and other languages I know) so Im not very acquainted with activist users. I happen to have stumbled upon this massive campaign to delegitimize ethnic cleansing involving user Oncenawhile and others, which I see the worst offender is already being dealt with above. I see those who have reported me evidently belong to this group of people who are trying to conceal historical fact provided in reputable sources using illogical arguments: "out of scope" etc... Here are a couple of examples btw: Denying religious persecution and massacre in Yemen: Illogically removing sourced sentence on jews escaping to Europe and Americas because it goes contrary to POV being pushed (that they were all leaving voluntarily out of love for Israel and were never persecuted/persecution is a "zionist lie"). I am assuming that the reaction would have been much swifter if we were dealing with the European holocaust and any campaign to deligitimize or deny it (a criminal offence in Germany and France, I believe) on the basis of Middle East conflict, so I hope there is no double standard and that North African and Middle Eastern Jews and their plight is treated with the same care by wikipedia community. Anyways, thank you for allowing me a chance to provide my position. Regards.

(talk) 09:26, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Asilah1981 (2)

Not sure if Im allowed to comment again, but a conversation seems to be going on here, so I assume that I am. I think we are missing the point. Those editors who have reporting me and supporting this case notably Zero000, seem to be using as an argument that I have misquoted Reuben Ahroni's book by stating the number of jews killed during the Pogrom (82, I think). Through his edits, Zero000 is using this source to claim there was no massacre of jews as such, just riots which killed arabs and jews. This is all the more surreal considering Reuben Ahroni's baby brother was murdered in this pogrom and no reputable source (let alone Reuben himself) deny that the violence was directed at jews, that at least 82 jews died and the vast majority of those killed were jews. Here is a source on this (see page 1) . It is as insane as quoting Ana Frank to deny the holocaust, and in my frank opinion this type of concealed POV pushing using fake sources should be the focus of this discussion, not whether I have or have not got the pages wrong during citation. The entire book is written on the premise of my sourced statement, it mentions it on various pages, including the first one, and not one page of it denies it. Thanks again. Asilah1981 (talk) 16:14, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Actually I have just gone through my contentious edits and note I made one mistake, in one of my edits I mistakenly quoted Parfitt instead of Ahroni and therefore gave the wrong page numbers. Zero000 was adamant on ensuring information which he knew was true to be excluded from the article and repeatedly reverted to the denialist version. In any case, Parfitt refers to the pogrom on numerous pages in the book and uses this term (at least part ot it is available in Google Books so this can be verified). Denying racially or religiously motivated massacres and ethnic cleansing on wikipedia is an ugly hobby, Zero0000.Asilah1981 (talk) 16:22, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

@Nishidani: Where did I erase highly precise page numbers for specific claims? I do not recall doing that at any point, and I don't see it in the evidence brought against me. I have only rewritten unsourced fantasy statements. No doubt I have broken the 1RR, I don't deny that, but I had never come across it before. Btw, the second half of your statement, regarding an indian muslim which was "probably" killed by a jewish sniper is frankly sick. What the hell? What do you want, all the bodies to have their noses measured to call it a pogrom? Some people, really... Asilah1981 (talk) 16:40, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Asilah1981 (3)

@Oncenawhile: As you know, I have a strong issue with the line you are pursuing while editing many articles related to the Jewish exodus. I didn't like the disclaimers added in the introductory section nor the way you give prime importance to arguments regarding the "utiliziation as pro-Israel propaganda" and "role of Zionist agents", One Million Plan and "False flag operations". I find your line of editing morally reprehensible. I also never understood why you have outlawed the term refugee for people who under all definitions were refugees. You refused to engage in discussion with me on Talk pages, even though I concede I was a bit aggressive in the way I engaged you. While the term "refugee" is used close to 50 times on the article on the Palestinian Nakba which you regularly edit, you carry out edits like this on basis of neutral voice!

In any case, I am not the kind of editor who will delete reputable sources because I find them objectionable. Even arguments provided by Hamas on "how jews brought the expulsion on themselves" expressed as a legitimate argument on the relevant section of Palestinian Nakba article, I did not delete (although I did ask about it - with evidently no response). So someone please at least tell me. Where am I deleting sources?? So far I have only, at least consciously, added sources!Asilah1981 (talk) 21:13, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

@EdJohnston: Ok fine, sounds good. I do have strong feelings about this issue, no doubt, and I did get upset over the way this whole episode of history has been politicized. But I understood how things work in these types of articles deemed "controversial" (they shouldn't be!). Note, I normally edit articles from time to time in areas where sources are scarce or non-existent. Will also try to get on better with users I disagree with, and assume good faith, particularly with user Oncenawhile . I will refrain from being too quick to decide on someone having an antisemitic agenda. I also noted some of Oncenawhile's edits were not destructive (in article on Oujda massacre, I see positive contributions for example) I can't say the same for all other users I have interacted with recently. I will respect 1RR as well. I can't believe this whole issue has arisen from one individual edit which Palestine-obsessed Huldra reverted for no apparent reason beyond that it ran contrary to her political inclinations. In this case I did NOT remove sources but just added one. Is there no rule in wiki against removing relevant, neutral properly sourced sentences? I also wonder how many of these users who claim to be so respectful and knowledgeable of wikipedia rules are calling their activist buddies to help them in their private edit wars. I guess this is why wikipedia is dying. Its controlled by people who don't have a personal life. Anyways, thanks again. This has at least been enjoyable and an escape from my problems in real life! Asilah1981 (talk) 13:06, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Zero0000

Here we see Asilah1981 removing sourced information with a false claim about what the source contains, and here we see Asilah1981 adding entirely fake page numbers for it. (The pages given do not mention the events they are cited for.) Editors who lie about sources are more dangerous to the encyclopedia than common vandals. Zero 22:57, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Note that Asilah1981's reply ignored the charges of repeated 1RR violation, and also ignored my specific charges of lying about sources. I'm happy to provide a copy of the source to any admin who wants to check—just send me email. Zero 10:34, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

@WarKosign: that link supports my charges. Zero 13:09, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

@Nishidani: The page numbers she added were 85–124. They contain two chapters on Law, Customs and Economy, and the first page of a chapter on 1930–1939. Nothing about the violent events of 1947–1949. Zero 13:19, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

@Asilah1981: You are now claiming "I mistakenly quoted Parfitt instead of Ahroni and therefore gave the wrong page numbers". Did you think nobody would look at Ahroni's book to see if the page numbers 85–124 make any sense there? Of course they don't; no sense at all. You need to give a better reason for adding those page numbers because the only explanation on the table so far is that you just made them up. Zero 23:23, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by WarKosign

@Zero0000: Here is the claim. The page number is off (maybe it's a different edition of the book), but there is a big difference between mistake in citing and lying. WP:AGF. “WarKosign” 11:04, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Nishidani

WasrKoSign. That sows confusion, and you have totally missed Zero's point. Zero's diffs show it is the same edition (Brill 1996). The first diff shows Asilah1981 replacing Zero's edit which cites Parfitt twice for 2 distinct facts, deaths (p.167) and accusations re two Muslim girls' death, with arrests (pp.187-91), with a rewriting of the text, and the erasure of those page numbers. The second diff by Asilah1981 shows her supplying pages from Parfitt, but the page range is indefinite, unspecific (pp.182-124). Thirdly, Asilah1981's two diffs cite exactly the same edition of Parfitt BRILL 1996. (One might add that the actual numbers of Jews killed in Aden were 76, not 80/82. The difference in the figure is due to the fact that 82 bodies were found, 6 were unidentified ethnically, but presumed to probably be Jews, as Parfitt says on the page Zero cited (p.167 n.17.(Idem Bat-Zion Eraqi Klorman, Traditional Society in Transition: The Yemeni Jewish Experience, BRILL 2014 p.106)

In sum Asilah1981 erased highly precise page numbers for each claim, then rewrote the text without page citation, then came back with a vague page ref that fudges. There can be no justification for editing like that: it just wastes time for people who actually read books, and cite them exactly. One cannot edit these pages with a monocular ethnic eye, eliding as Asilah1981 did the specific indication that 33 Arabs died in the clashes (these events are complex: we ignore the 4 Indian Muslims and a Somali killed, that a Jewish sniper probably shot dead an Indian Moslem doctor and a 'Levy' soldier on 4 December, and the crucial fact that many Jews killed were not simply killed by local Aden 'Arabs', but by local levied troops under British command, who abused their functions by acting on their own). People who write off the top of their heads, and edit to shape an ideological reading of history, who erase precise data and replace it with unverified, vague source assertions are a bane that rots the work of the few people who take this encyclopedia's ambitions seriously.Nishidani (talk) 11:53, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

'Where did I erase highly precise page numbers for specific claims?.'here. This has got nothing to do with activists with a Jewish pogrom suppression remit (!!!!) or whatever. This is about scholarly precision and scruple. Please don't be disingenuous, or bury a serious list of damning diffs under a WP:TLDR screed. Nishidani (talk) 17:05, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Cptnono

or SPI. Waste of everyone's time here.Cptnono (talk) 12:28, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Oncenawhile

Whilst Asilah1981's heart may be in the right place, (s)he needs to learn to WP:AGF, as her various talk page and edit comments show. Another example of this is at this talk page.

Asilah1981's passion tells me they could be a good contributor, but they need to begin to trust others here, learn to collaborate, and learn to read existing sources properly. So far Asilah's edits have been almost exclusively destructive, because they are not using sources properly. Apart from the point Zero brings above, it is the deletion of existing well sourced scholarly text which I find most disturbing - for example . I suspect Asilah1981 has simply not read the sources they are deleting, for which there really is no excuse.

Oncenawhile (talk) 19:54, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Result concerning Asilah1981

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

• This looks to be a 1RR violation by User:Asilah1981 on 1948 Palestinian exodus. In particular, their 10:35 and 20:46 edits of 25 November (listed above) are both reverts. This looks to be a dispute about the Arab-Israeli conflict. The 1948 Palestinian exodus has carried an ARBPIA banner on its talk page for over a year. This would normally call for a block. If Asilah1981 will agree to wait for consensus in the future before changing I/P articles we might consider that in lieu of a block. I also notice some reverts at Operation Magic Carpet (Yemen) and some incensed edit summaries ("Removing creeping (and creepy) POV censorship by user Onceinawhile..") at 1947 Aden riots, suggesting strong feelings about the article content. At the time of these reverts Asilah1981 was not yet alerted to I/P sanctions but that doesn't matter for enforcement of 1RR, which doesn't require a warning first. EdJohnston (talk) 04:47, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

• See Asilah1981's response above. He seems to be agreeing to follow 1RR in the future. Is this enough, or should we issue a block? EdJohnston (talk) 17:20, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

• Closing. Nobody has responded to advocate a block since my last comment, so I am closing this with no action. User:Asilah1981 is warned to observe the WP:1RR rule. It should be obvious to all that the topic of Jewish refugees from Arab and Muslim countries is highly controversial. It is expected that everyone will keep their edits neutral and their talk page comments neutral. EdJohnston (talk) 17:55, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Mooretwin

Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

Appealing user

Mooretwin (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – Mooretwin (talk) 13:11, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Sanction being appealed

Indefinite topic ban on articles, discussions, and other content related to The Troubles, the Ulster banner and British baronets, imposed at ]. The decision was imposed on 10 February 2012, six months passed on 10 August 2012. I appealed on 9 October 2012. The appeal was not upheld, though was relaxed by the removal of the British baronets topic ban. Since then, I have not made any subsequent appeal until now, over two years since the previous appeal and some two years and ten months since the ban was imposed.

Administrator imposing the sanction

T. Canens (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Notification of that administrator

Statement by Mooretwin

I have abided by the topic ban for nearly three years now, and I would like it to be lifted. That is a long time during which to reflect and I think the period demonstrates my patience and acceptance of the sanction. I have not been involved in any disputes, edit wars, incivility or any other misdemeanours during that time. While in the period up to about five years ago I was involved in a number of such disputes, I had not been involved in any in the two years prior to the incident that led to this ban. That incident was in the "heat of the moment" and, I argued at the time and still do, was the result of extreme provocation. I should like to think, given the conduct in the two years previous and the nearly three years since, that it would be accepted that the incident does not represent a fair reflection of my contributions to Misplaced Pages, and thus that an indefinite ban is no longer a reasonable sanction.

At the time of my first appeal, editors sought evidence of collaborative editing. However, I made the point that my inability to edit articles in the only real area of my expertise (Northern Ireland) meant that I was unable to edit collaboratively. This remains the case, although recently, for example, I have engaged constructively at WP:CRICKET in relation to achieving consensus for a new notability criterion.

Statement by T. Canens

Statement by (involved editor 1)

Statement by (involved editor 2)

Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Mooretwin

AFAIK, you've had no problems in other areas during the 2+ years, thus a demonstration of your new approach. IMHO, your topic-ban should be lifted. Afterall, it was placed as a preventative measure & since there's nothing to prevent anymore.....? :) GoodDay (talk) 17:38, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Result of the appeal by Mooretwin

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• Mooretwin, can you give an example of a TROUBLES-related article you would work on if this ban was lifted? What kind of material would you add? EdJohnston (talk) 17:25, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

I'm afraid, as a result of the ban, I haven't been reading or following any very closely, so I'm not up to speed on what needs work. There is currently no particular article that I intend to work on immediately. I don't have a lot of time, to be honest, but I would still like the freedom to be able to participate as and when I think I can offer something useful. At one time, I was in the process of creating articles on historical members of the Northern Ireland Parliament missing from the encyclopaedia, adding categories for government ministers and so on, but that all had to stop. Eventually I'd like to complete that. A few random examples of articles I've created are: Basil Kelly, Colum Eastwood, David Graham Shillington, Edmund Warnock. I also won't pretend that I wouldn't wish to be able to add value to some of the more "controversial" articles on occasion without resorting to edit wars or confrontation: I've certainly learned my lesson on that, and would give an undertaking to tread carefully and respectfully. Mooretwin (talk) 23:05, 27 November 2014 (UTC)