Misplaced Pages

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Paris portal

Hello! Just thought I'd drop by to comment on your work on the Paris portal. As I've said before, it looks extrememly impressive. However, I should warn you that your opening section is teetering on POV... we tried something like that with London and it didn't go down well...

Other than that it's looking pretty smart! Keep it up! Deano 20:27, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Well... as much as it pains me to say it, it is what I consider to be the best bit - the opening section. Specifically, the lines

"Your guiding beacon through the city of light.

Find with ease everthing Wiki concerning the city of Paris, capital of France.

The City, its history, its people, its life, its talents, its sights, its attractions, its tastes...

Geographic portals are always liable to be slightly POV because they are usually maintained by locals from that area. However, they must remain encyclopediaic (dunno if that's a word or not!) and refrain from anything that promotes the page, the subject or pretty much anything... It sucks, I know! Deano 20:47, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Well I think that may well be the issue... I think I am right in saying that no other portal has any sort of introduction other than stating its name. And some don't even have that.

There are two schools of thought about portals at the moment. One is that all should look the same - have the same format and structure so that users benefit from consistency. The other (the one I subscribe to) is that each portal should be individual and best reflect the subject area with which it is dealing.

Your portal elegantly fits into the latter - very individualistic and quite different.

Unfortunately, we came to an assumed compromise whereby portals could look how they wanted, as long as they followed a similar structure and maintained the key attributes to a good portal. The problem for you is that your first box is absolutely unique to the Paris portal - every other portal on wikipedia has a section of its main article as its opening box (i.e. P:L has the opening to London; Portal:Christianity opens with text from Christianity).

Basically... I think your introductory box is too good... too unique!!! Which annoys me, because I totally support greater individuality for portals. Hopefully you understand what I mean! Just browse throught other portals on the namespace, and you'll see it first-hand! Deano 21:10, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

I would like to interject my deux-cents and state that the format of the French Portal should not be changed, for the following reasons: a) after the purely decorative introduction, the content and layout of the portal is similar to most of the other portals I have seen, so users who like the familiarity can simply scroll down to find what they need, and b) this is a rather unusual portal because it is focused on such a narrow topic. The arguement could probably be made that since this portal is very much a sub-category portal, it can get away with more individualism than the Engineering Portal or the Culture Portal. However, if these arguements don't stick, perhaps a highly visible in-page link at the top to the Introduction box would help. or an elegant left-hand side menu so that users unfamiliar with the format could easily find what they need? Perhaps also the top section could be used as an introduction page, with a link at the bottom and a 5 or so second redirect to the regularly formatted page?

Also, I would invite you to read Misplaced Pages:Portal, where it is stated that There is no one standard design for portals, but the most ubiquitous layout is the "box portal". The box design is certainly recommended, but by no means absolute. I would also invite you to view the Food Portal for a similar setup of title image above introduction box, Portal:Europe for a quite non-standard layout, and Portal:Dragonlance for another Portal that has gone it's own direction.

On a completely unrelated note, Promender, in the course of working on the Engineering Portal, I came across some Wiki Meta-Code that will allow you to automatically change information on the page based on the date, so that you can keep the featured article or picture rotating based on the day, saving you some time. If you would like, I could easily set up the code for your Portal once I finish with the Engineering Portal.

Good luck with your continued work on the French pages, and thank you for the images you donated to the wiki commons. I will be leaving for France soon, and poking around the French pages has been exciting.

Sincerely,

Brandon (Âme Errante 03:28, 23 June 2006 (UTC))

Welcome

Seems that no-one has yet done this so.... Welcome!

Hello ThePromenader, and welcome to Misplaced Pages! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

• The five pillars of Misplaced Pages
• How to edit a page
• Help pages
• Tutorial
• How to write a great article
• Manual of Style

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you have any questions, check out Misplaced Pages:Where to ask a question or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome!  Ian13 20:29, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Hello again! Just took a glance in poping-by to see how you are doing, and you seem to be getting along well, which is nice to see. I wish you all the best in helping making WP even better than you already have. Ian 18:11, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Return greetings

Excellent work indeed, from one who loves all things French (in my perfect world, I'd have an apartment in Paris and go there often...) I have a lot of French subjects on my watchlist to check for vandalism. Happy editing! Antandrus (talk) 22:35, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Thank you very very much indeed, and glad to know you're there! Take care! ThePromenader 11:10, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Paris

Hi, (trying to speak English because I have not so many occasions ;)

If I understand correctly, CIG929394 is not really an administration, but an organization that helps civil servants managing their career inside the administration. I had never heard of it before.

BTW, your web site is stunningly beautiful. Hope it will reach my district (13th)... Thbz 08:51, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Paris cats

Hi mate - nice to see the portal up on the namespace! Major thing I just noticed - your category box does not link to the categories! You might want to sort that out! Looks awesome though - I like what you've done at the top! Deano 19:07, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Under Portal conventions (they're there to be broken I suppose), the "Categories" box should contain categories that exist. The majority of those listed in your category box are just plain text... and therefore have no basis as a "Category"... I would delete them but obviously you'd wonder why! But I don't think it can remain in its current format. Either remove non-existant categories, or locate the correct ones. Without blowing my own trumpet, the Category box at P:London is pretty much what you're looking for. There are plenty of other goods ones out and about - P:UK is a good starting point. Deano 22:22, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

P:UK is a very nice example. : ) Actually I'll get to linking things up when I can - all of my "Wikitime" has these past weeks been spent trying to improve one trifling page. There is another problem - the categories around Paris (transport, entertainment, etc) are a mess, so even before I can link there I must clean up first. If you do feel the need to delete go ahead and I'll link up later. Thanks for the heads-up and cheers. ThePromenader 15:26, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

List of streets in Paris (Afd)

Salut, J'ai crée des souslistes - donc, à mon avis, on peut maintenant écraser l'originale. Les liens commencent à Streets dans Portal:Paris. Dlyons493 Talk 21:35, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Hi, The data's all there on your very elegant portal - see the Streets link I took the liberty of adding (under Districts) FYI - you have a duplicate Avenue Foch :-) Dlyons493 Talk 22:12, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

• More by way of experiment than anything else I've created Rue Zadkine. Comments appreciated. Dlyons493 Talk 02:22, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

• • Hi, Deleting these pages is no big deal. We can perfectly well start from having no links at all (in the usual way) but I had hoped that starting with red links would be better for encouraging blue link creation. There's enormous scope for creating useful articles on Paris streets - I found writing Rue de l'Abbaye very interesting and informative. Dlyons493 Talk 00:29, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Award!

I am pushing it abit, but still:

Add it to your userpage as you so wish! Ian_ID:540053 20:59, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Paris streets

Feel free to take anything you want from fr:Catégorie:Rue parisienne... I have also created categories for each arrondissmeent on Commons (see commons:Category:Paris). In my opinion, the easiest way to find something in the Nomenclature on paris.fr is to use Google with the name of the street and the word "nomenclature": it works almost always... Thbz 18:45, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Pour ce qu'il concerne le 'base des données', je suis justement en train de mettre les touches finales sur une solution plus "efficace" - je te tiendrai au courant. Pour le reste, merci ! : ) ThePromenader 10:28, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

The Return of "Streets of Paris"

Hi, I'll have a think about this over the next week. I'll certainly contribute something to the project which I feel is a most worthwhile one. In fact, sad to say, I've already contributed a significant proportion of the existing streets with Rue d'Abbaye, Rue Zadkine and Boulevard de la Zone (the first and last entries in the list of Paris streets). But I expect others will take up the baton and run with it. My main concentraion will remain communes though - je resterai avec mes moutons à Misplaced Pages:WikiProject French communes. I'll think about ways to categorise the streets. Dlyons493 Talk 23:26, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Street Infobox

That's a good idea - I'll retrofit it to the articles I created when I get time. Dlyons493 Talk 22:13, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Totally disputed tag

The totally disputed tag is both excessive ("totally disputed") and inapropriate, because you are the only user disputing some (not all) elements of the article. If any user who disputed any element of any article on Misplaced Pages was to use the tag, I bet almost all articles on Misplaced Pages would have a totally disputed tag. The tag is used for big issues which involve many users, check for instance Anti-German (ideology). Hardouin 11:15, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

"Totally disputed" = "the entire article, POV and facts." Stop grasping at straws please. And keep discussion on the Paris article public, that is to say on the Paris article Talk page; I have nothing to hide in all this. In the meantime, until you have proven or fixed the disputed content, you will leave the "disputed" tag where it is, as your refusal to engage in pre-emptive discussion, constant reverting, refusal to see reason or provide sources has indeed turned this into a dispute. Thank you.

THEPROMENADER 16:41, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

I have already answered many times on the talk page the points you dispute on the talk page. Re-read my previous answers. Even user Stevage said there was nothing wrong about talking of "Greater Paris". The tag is based on your, and yours only, disagreement with the article. That doesn't justify a totally disputed tag, otherwise everybody would be free to add totally disputed tags on any article they want. Hardouin 23:17, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

You have answered to nothing and changed nothing. Your writ is of your own invention and comes from no citable reference; if this is false, you have yet to prove it. You use the term "Greater Paris" but once, and when you do you misuse it. Stevage also admitted he knew little on the subject - this is not the case with me. Stop grasping at straws. You will answer to your misconceptions, allow improvement or you prolong the dispute. Period. I will continue to replace the tag as long as you remove it without fulfilling the above conditions, so don't bother. You're only making yourself look more foolish and accomplishing nothing. THEPROMENADER 23:33, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Paris WikiProject

Je vous félicite pour le travail déjà effectué sur tous les articles concernant Paris, et le portail en particulier. Peut-être pourrait-il être intéressant de créér un WikiProject sur Paris en particulier. -- Ze miguel 13:41, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

About the Paris WikiProject: actually, you may have been right in creating a project only for the streets: a project about the whole of Paris might have been too large. The two largest areas for work are the history, and the monuments. If you need, I might be of some help with photographs, I work near the Invalides. -- Ze miguel 08:49, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Bienvenue! Merci ; ) THEPROMENADER 09:12, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

No problem. Plese tell me if there are pictures you would like added. Take care, -- Ze miguel 08:32, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Boulevard de l'Hôpital

Hi, I've added your infobox to see how it looks - pretty good! Let me know when you have the map and I'll finish the article off with that. Dlyons493 Talk 19:46, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the support

Promenader, sorry for not replying earlier, but just wanted to say thanks for your messages and reversions. It's good to know that there are bona fide editors on Misplaced Pages. In answer to your question of Are you knowledgable on the subject?, I am a jack of all trades and a master of none (unless being bone-idle counts as a trade). I am not a professorial authority on any matter but I do have a scientific background which means I abhor personal opinions of professional matters in favour of a rigorous scientific approach. Personally, I am appalled at the blasé approach to some articles - journal editors would throw the author out of the window for submitting articles in such a manner. Thanks again :) Green Giant 23:41, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Thank for the message, Promenader. I know what you mean about that kind behaviour, you might as well be banging your head on a brick wall for all the good it will do! I was amazed that the best defence he had was a Misplaced Pages article, which he hadn't fully read, but simply cited a line from the introduction. I look forward to working with you on improving the article because Paris should be a showcase article. Green Giant 03:22, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Agree with you

I couldn't agree with you more, we should stick to official definitions. The aire urbaine should be mentioned only in the context that INSEE intends it for but nothing more than that. Green Giant 14:59, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the message on my user page. I'm glad you like the changes on the page because I was trying to give it a less formal feeling. As to your point about the Ile-de-France and Paris, I agree with that because the article should be about Paris and not Ile-de-France (which has it's own article). Like you said on the talkpage it's ...chip, chip, chip - reinforcing the POV. I question the need for the Paris infobox to contain metropolitan information as if Paris actually encompasses the whole area. At the bottom of the page is a template for Communes of the metropolitan area of Paris, which should really be entitled Communes of Ile-de-France. Green Giant 13:12, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Your comment on Dlyons493's talk page

Hi Promenader, thank you for your kind words. Parlez-vous francais? And to answer your query - it's

Je suis galloise, mais je parle un peu français! Encore, merci beaucoup pour ton mots généreux - mais tristessement, je ne pense pas je suis être un administrateur; il y à un beaucoup de votes contre moi. Ça ne fait rien; peut-etre la temps prochaine. À tout à l'heure ;) Proto t c 21:51, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Proto's RfA

Hi, Thanks for your comments on my page - seems to me the natural place to have put them. I'm glad you didn't take his original comments to heart because I felt his comment about the Paris Portal further down that particular AfD was also rather out of place (but I didn't want my cvility point to turn into an attack, so I didn't mention it). He's said that he'll think ahead a bit in future and, if he does, then there's been a positive outcome and wiki will be better for it. I haven't looked back at his contribution history but the RfA comments suggest he can be a bit terse and we have too many abrasive Admins already so I think the feedback he's getting at present is good and I wish him well if he does become an Admin (he certainly will sometime - the question is whether it will be this time around - let the community decide!). Dlyons493 Talk 08:44, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Wikimedia Canada

Hi there! I'd like to invite you to explore Wikimedia Canada, and create a list of people interested in forming a local chapter for our nation. A local chapter will help promote and improve the organization, within our great nation. We'd also like to encourage everyone to suggest projects for our national chapter to participate in. Hope to see you there!--DarkEvil 17:11, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Map of Paris

Hi !

Nice map. Do you by any chance have a hi-res version? I'd like to add a map in my article about Haussmann (fr:Transformations de Paris sous le Second Empire). I may use yours and modify it to show which axis were added by the Baron...

Thanks! Thbz 07:17, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

About Paris

Archived and moved here.

My RfA

Hi mate,

As a user I greatly respect, I thought you would like to know that I have decided to throw my hat into the ring for RfA. At present I need a couple more supporting votes to secure adminship (there was a slight misunderstanding!) but, as one of the few Wikipedians who have taken the time to compliment my work, I felt you might be a good potential advocate.

I was taking a look at Portal:Paris just now - I see you are gradually battling the categorisation system. Once that's done, you'll be well on your way to featured portal status!

Cheers, DJR (Talk) 08:48, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Protection of the "Paris" article

This article has been protected for over two weeks, and I think it may be time to move on and see if the participants can edit it cooperatively. As one of the editors involved in the dispute, how do you feel about this proposition? --Tony Sidaway 12:51, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

I am of course for removing the page lock - there are many I know who would like to contribute there, especially in light of recent suggestions - but I fear that without an agreement from both parties the page will be returning to its 'business as usual' of stall and revert-appropriation. This is a cycle that has been going on since months now and has been a great waste of time to all: I do not want this to begin again, so if there is no agreement I think this situation needs mediation, and this preferably by parties knowledgable about Paris and its real workings. Thanks for asking. THEPROMENADER 23:21, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

WP:CBB

Hi, I have removed your notice from the community bulletin board because it is not intended for individual articles. Just imagine if everyone would post what they are working on and what help their need... it would soon get out of control. I hope you understand. I see you have some editors interested in France to help you out, also a number of WikiProjeckts. You should ask them. Good luck, Renata 15:21, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Oh, sorry. I did not mean that it was abusive. It was not! It is just a regular, good faith mistake we always make. I made much dumber mistakes in my wiki life :) I just wanted to explain why I removed it. By "you have some editors interested in france to help you out" I meant that I saw a bunch of talk page notes from various editors who are obviously interested in France. Also there are a couple of wikiprojects related to France/Paris. I suggest looking there. Renata 17:08, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Greetings from Paris, reply

Hi ThePromenader. Thanks for leaving a message on my talk page. I would be pleased to contribute to the Paris related articles. Do continue to correspond either on this tralk page or my own and discuss which sections need attetion. I am knowledgeable on both history and transport as shown by my uploads on the Commons and few edits here and there. Regards, Captain scarlet 20:27, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

User:Hardouin

I have noticed your message on User:Hardouin's talk page and must agree with your points cited on his talk page. Since I have myself experienced issues with the said user and if need be, I will be happy to help in the collection of data incriminating User:Hardouin. Do not hesitated to visit my talkpage or reply here (page in watched) on this matter. Regards, Captain scarlet 19:18, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

: LOL - thank you very much - but the Paris page alone has already oodles of 'Hardouin happenings' archived in its history. Your input is reassuring though, as the stand-off has been rather one-on-one until now. I just hope that your problems with this character have to do with fact and conduct - I want to leave opinion and personality out of this at all costs, as these are not my reasons for discord. I do know of this character's other attempts at 'pending revert' holds over other low-traffic articles, but if you can bring something more please do. Thanks. THEPROMENADER 19:31, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Oh, that one is a funny one. The "issues" mentioned here refer to the fact that Captain scarlet strongly object to my using American English spelling in French articles. This is ludicrous! Hardouin 19:24, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

How could I know this? Read my reply. THEPROMENADER 19:38, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Your threatening message on my talk page

The Original Message:

I'll have you know that I am formulating a direct complaint against your months of page appropriation and predjudiced reverts. This will take some time to formulate as, although you pretend to have a short memory, there are months and months of nonsense to compile. I only regret that I must waste so much time on this - in order to allow an unbridled editing of - one article. Cordially, THEPROMENADER 19:05, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Listen Promenader, I am sick and tired of your accusations and diatribe. Drop it. If you were accessible to reason, it should ring a bell somehow that nobody is answering your lenghty messages on Paris talk page, and not even Green Giant feels concerned about all the nasty things you write to him about me. Unfortunately you are totally unreasonable. The insane messages you sent to Metropolitan definitely convinced me that you are the craziest person I have met in my life so far. So go ahead, file your "complaint", I'll make sure to tell everybody the kind of person you are. Hardouin 19:21, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

And if I can add: I think the general Paris page consensus concerning ThePromenader is "Shut up and edit already." Yet it seems that a unique contributor there does not want this to happen. In other words, those long loads of prose stem from you, my dear. Without your antics there would probably be none of this. Go figure. THEPROMENADER 08:33, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

You go to great lengths to insinuate whatever you can about me, and you obviously watch everything I do. Which unfortunately, time permitting lately, is only dealing with you. Yes, please do tell all to all - and allow me to do the same. THEPROMENADER 19:37, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

PS: I would really like to know in what way my message - or any of my messages to you, for that matter - was 'threatening'. THEPROMENADER 19:43, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

May it be noted Hardouin, that your talk page is rather full of contests of your above statement. It may also be noted that rather blindly appropriating articles under the claim that motorways exist here and there that maybe editing the said sections with content you say is present in the disputed locations' articles. Captain scarlet 19:46, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

All the same, I wouldn't begin a revert war on someone's talk page, Captain scarlet : ) THEPROMENADER 19:50, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

3.5 million m²

Sorry about the 3.5 million m² of office space in the introduction. I've added that sentence because of an anonymous user who was constantly changing the sentence in saying that La Défense wasn't the largest CBD in Europe, but one of the largest CBD's. That figure was simply added as the criteria explaining why it's indeed, objectively speaking, the largest CBD in Europe. Now I agree it doesn't fit into an introduction, but it was the only way to convince suspicious readers. Metropolitan 00:24 15 March 2006 (CET)

No need to apologise to me - but it perhaps best to avoid putting over-developed arguments in a part of the article that is intended to be a broad resumé. The source should be enough to convince anyone methinks. It did have a 'making a point' feel about it : ) THEPROMENADER 03:41, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Re:Paris Page

I had no intention of playing in the sandbox alone, so feel free to join in. I have to apologise for my recent lack of presence on Misplaced Pages, mainly due to being overworked and underpaid. Part of the change in userpage layout was to practice the simplicity I was preaching and partly the former layout was looking a bit boring. Plus, I now have an allergic reaction to userboxes! Green Giant 02:02, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Paris Introduction

I won't revert the Paris introduction as what is was before you've edited but I fail to understand why you did so. Your editing comment says you've made so in order to bring more coherence but I don't see how it does so. Paris introduction was fine before, how your edit brings more coherence to it ? Metropolitan 15:42, 19 mars 2006 (CET).

Paris

My intent was to break an edit/revert war, and that appears to have happened. I don't mind if you correct any/all of what was reverted, but suggest that you consider doing it a piece at a time, with accompanying discussion. Then, if someone else reverts your edits, I can easily come to your defense. -- Gnetwerker 20:27, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Sorry if I messed this up. I did study the Talk page, but found it nearly impossible to determine what the issue was and who was doing what to whom. I will admit that I did not do an exhaustive study of the edit history. With respect, the version I reverted and the version I reverted to both seem to have the same basic issues -- they are too long, they use contentious definitions, etc. I have tried to articulate that in my comments. -- Gnetwerker 00:25, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments -- I hope I was helpful. I should have pointed out on the Talk page that I did not do any additional research -- I only reworded and reorganized what was there. I am not really equipped to do the research, and that is an excellent issue to debate on the Talk page (I realize a lot of that has happened already). -- Gnetwerker 23:10, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for asking and feel free to make the changes. It wouldn't really be a continuation of the edit-war because I noticed you didn't feel "threatened" by my suggestions. The oh soooo scary Green Giant 08:29, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Sacre couer, P -- stop poking Hardouin, no matter how good it makes you feel. Yeeesh. -- Gnetwerker 20:18, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your note. Our place can be seen here, BTW -- http://www.ruemonge.net -- Gnetwerker 18:00, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I have been busy too. I have lost track of which graphic is up for review vis. the demographics. My opinion is that the big one could go onto the separate (and moribund) demographics page, and the one on the Paris page needs to work at no more than 240px width. Perhaps we'll bump into you when we're in Paris in May, at the Italian deli on the rue Lacepede! -- Gnetwerker 19:50, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Won't be there until the end of May, but I'll drop a line then. I've been too busy to keep up with the Paris page. It looks like it's slowly coming together though. -- Gnetwerker 20:54, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

We'll be there May 24 for about a week, then a month in Tuscany, then back for a few days in early July. With spouse, kids, nanny, etc, it will be a travelling circus. And I have to take out a second mortgage on the house so we can have dinner at L'Arpege for our anniversary. Your shoot sounds interesting -- I've never been to North Africa, and will prob need to wait until the kids are older to go. -- Gnetwerker 21:13, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Re: Paris Coordinates

Greetings,

It's still an experimental template, so it's currently not common practice. However, the articles on Canberra and London are two which implement the coordinates template. --3345345335534 16:06, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

People are still currently debating a better position for it. Some have suggested moving it to the bottom of the page. We'll see how things turn out.

I just find an article that opens with a picture and an infobox a bit jarring. Also, many articles have much larger gaps caused by the TOC. If there were any gaps anywhere else on the page, I'd agree with you, but leaving a TOC gap makes it look a little less cramped in my opinion. --3345345335534 16:36, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Paris Underground

nice photos! there aren't too many anglophones underground.

also glad to see that the PC has its own page. I've never done the full "tour," but I do have a sneaking suspicion that I know your guide.

hibou 16:45, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

cool! well then maybe I'll see you down there sometime. In the meantime -- want to add one of your photos to cataphile? -- hibou 10:12, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Missed 'Paris points'

Original Message

Actually, what is going on here is not 'tricks': it is called 'building consensus'. The consensus of two that I was speaking of was only on the point of the infobox thinning in the present discussion alone - I could count the attempts by myself, Green Giant and Stevage to thin things down, all of these reverted by you, but we are all quite aware of these so I but give them mention in our discussion. I did not count Captain Scarlet vote in anything thus far - but even before this, consensus was already more than two across several points quite clearly outlined in the discussion.

I'm not angry at your leaving rather misleading attempts at denigration of myself on other people's talk pages, but I don't really see the point in it. I think it would be better for the sake of the overall editing atmosphere here that you stick to parlaying facts, and that you show some respect for other contributor's wish to do so.

I honestly do admire the seeming wealth/resources of your knowledge, and think that you really can/do contribute a lot to Wiki, but for readers and contributors alike to fully appreciate your talents, you must work towards the common goal that is making real and referenced information available and accessible (in all senses of the term) to the greatest possible public. It is the basic facts we must relate first, and then and only then can we continue onwards towards other 'points of view' - but even these must be referenceable. It is only natural that with time and more knowledgable contributors that the article fall into this line - it would be great if, instead of resisting all movement in this direction, that you put your talents to use and help us attain this goal.

THEPROMENADER 22:58, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Nota - the above message was immidiately erased from where it was left, so I moved it here. Below is the reply left here.

Your umpteenth message on my talk page

Listen Promenader, stop posting self-righteous messages on my talk page, you're only wasting my time. Your opinion is full well known, you're the good guy and I'm the bad guy, you only look for truth, I am the one deceiving people, bla bla bla, you've trumpeted that for months now, so there's no need to continue arguing over it. The only reason why I am answering you is this: I discovered you sent messages to several people about the Paris infobox of your making, except to Metropolitan and to me, despite the fat that Metropolitan and I are two significant contributors to the Paris article! That sort of sneaky behavior says a lot about your personality... So much for Mr. Self-Righteous! Hardouin 23:31, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't really understand your aggressive attitude. The only person I could be certain of hearing from about the Paris article is you. Call Metroplolitan an 'oubli'. As for the rest and the tone of all this, I find it to be quite overheated, provocating and quite immature - if you are indeed a partisan of reason, I suggest you find another approach. THEPROMENADER 23:40, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

PARIS

I have already replied on that page. --Hamedog_Talk| 07:52, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Station naming convention

Heyup, thank you VERY for your brief message concerning station naming conventions, it's a relief to see that some people live in the same world as me and see things as they are. Pffeeew, cheers for the clarification. Regards, Captain scarlet 21:05, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Your latest message

Paranoia again? You're the one publicly disclosing your life, your profession, you whereabouts to everybody. And now you say you want everything to remain private? Again you're not being very logical. If you don't want people to know anything about you, then don't say anything in the first place. But then, we both know that your baseless accusation is just motivated by anger after I revealed your stalking of Metropolitan. Hardouin 11:35, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I divulge what personal info I want to who I please, and you won't see my address on my personal page or in any article. To find this sort of information one has to a) know me b) take an active interest in my doings and c) read every post to every article and every user page I make. And you're calling me a stalker?

Also, let me remind you that it is your sock-puppetry that created circumstances propitious to doubt about an eventual repetition of the same behaviour. Even in light of this I offered an apology to Metropolitan - what have you done of the sort? THEPROMENADER 13:14, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

a- I have never created sock-puppets, and you have never offered an apology to me.

b- You talked about your location on Gnetwerker's talk page, and I was reading this talk page because I was exchanging messages with this user. Now stop your baseless accusations. Hardouin 13:23, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Please don't make your case worse for yourself - let me remind you that I am not alone as witness to your behaviour. My 'accusations', first off, are constatations, and second, I would not forward them without good reason. Now, if you please, I have work to do. Good day. THEPROMENADER 13:40, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

You claim things without proof. And when your accusations don't turn out the way you wanted, you say you have better things to do and you quit. Please, be a bit more mature. Good day to you too. Hardouin 13:48, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

You were quite silly that 'puppet' day, and the proof I posted with every turn of events - you are also quite silly to forward a denial, especially after all was practically forgotten and forgiven. Absolutely nothing has 'turned out' at all today - just more reams of text to no discernable goal nor conclusion.

I suggest that you hold with your personal affrontery. I do have a weakness in my overwhelming urge to clarify false allusions and accusations, so it would be best for both our time's sake that you bring an end to these. THEPROMENADER 14:22, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't think that referring to people's disagreement with you as "personal affrontery" helps bolster your case. Hardouin 14:32, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Disagreement on what? You talk little of fact, mostly vague insinuations dictatively alluding to things I 'do' and what I 'impose' and what I 'try' and what my 'vision' is - without ever speaking clearly of anything at all! I even have to try to discern what point you trying to make before answering you - and still manage to bring out the basic question in it all - that you somehow always avoid answering. So enough of this roundabout merry-go-round - unless you want to answer clearly what's asked of you, vague exchanges such as these are a big waste of everyone's reading time. THEPROMENADER 17:54, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

=== Removal of Talk-Page Messages === - yet another message removed by User:Hardouin

There is absolutely no call for the removal of talk-page messages, especially when they are warnings. Insinuate with any adjective you like, but unless they are a personal attack their removal is unwarrented. Please find the original message again below, as it will be needed soon - I have begun a complaint proceedings against you and a documented warning on your user page is needed for that. This is it:

No more games. You have held reign with your opinons over pages of your choice thanks to the ignorance of other contributors, and enforced your unsolicited impositions in ignorance of all discussion and consensus (infoboxes being only the latest example) with unwarrented reverts - enough. Wiki is not your personal soapbox for imposing your personal opinions upon the unsuspecting, and this without any clear justification or direct citation whatsoever, as the patent truth. In my work upon the other French city pages I see that Paris is only the beginning of the unreferencable mess you've made - this must end. From now I will do everything within my power to bring an end your strictly personal, antisocial and anti-wiki nonsense. THEPROMENADER 19:38, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

This is your third reminder. You have already shown enough unreasonable behavior for one night. THEPROMENADER 00:26, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Give yourself a break

Go get some sleep and come back refreshed with one proviso. Remember, this is just an encyclopedia article we are talking about, not life and death situations. Green Giant 01:44, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Award strikes back

		The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
		I award this The Tireless Contributor Barnstar to ThePromenader for exceptional work, enthousiasm on the Paris related articles and never sacrificing quality. Despite all your troubles, your work has not come unnoticed. Captain scarlet 08:40, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Enjoy. Captain scarlet 08:40, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you! Surtout, thank you for understanding : ) THEPROMENADER 23:08, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Sans problemes, le tout est de s'amuser et de faire ce qui nous fait plaisir, faut surtout pas laisser quelques idiots nous pourrir la vie. I got a day off coz I'm not feeling to well so: owned ! Captain scarlet 09:36, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

:)

Dakpowers has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling to someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Smile to others by adding {{subst:smile}}, {{subst:smile2}} or {{subst:smile3}} to their talk pages. Happy editing!

The reason for my spontaneous smile? I received one on that night and it made my hour. I figured I'd "pay it forward" and smile at some more productive people. Just hopefully to make their hour, too. :) Sorry for the late response, I hadn't even noticed your message until now. Happy editing! -- DakPowers (Talk) 01:31, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Featured Pic Cantidate

FYI people are brutaly honest on Feature Picture Candidates. It is perfectly acceptable to nominate pictures of your own. Don't listen to anyone who says what they know what an FP is. Its a tough process, I encourage you to keep trying. -Ravedave 20:06, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

No problem, there is lots of newbie biting that happens at FPC and I have tried to address it there with little sucess. The only thing I have improved is that people no longer seem to be downright insulting, but newbs are still not helped along in any way. -Ravedave 23:31, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

FYI when creating edits please make new uploads and add new thumbnails. This helps people late to the game see what has been fixed. Thanks. -Ravedave 15:38, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Map of France

Bonjour,

j'ai remarqué que la carte de France Image:France jms.gif que vous aviez déposé sur le serveur a un petit défaut. Il se trouve au niveau de la frontière entre les deux régions administratives Poitou-Charentes et Aquitaine. Il ne s'agit pas d'un gros défaut, je pense même qu'il peut passer inaperçu pour une grande majorité des français. Je l'ai remarqué au premier coup d'œil car je viens du Poitou-Charente et je travaille à Bordeaux. C'est d'ailleurs sur l'article concernant Bordeaux que je l'ai tout de suite remarqué. En fait, la position et les coordonnées de Bordeaux sur la carte sont bonnes mais on peut voir que la ville se trouve à quelques kilomètres du département de la Charente-Maritime, ce qui n'est pas tout à fait le cas dans la réalité. Pour résumer, le problème est que sur cette carte le territoire de la Charente-Maritime est plus large au Sud par rapport à la réalité. Je ne sais pas d'où vient cette petite erreur étant donné que le reste de la carte me semble tout à fait correcte. Donc voilà ce serait bien de trouver une autre carte et d'essayer de la coriger. Je vous propose de comparer la frontière avec celle de la carte de France de l'article concernants les départements français (celle-ci Image:Départements de France.svg) pour mieux constater l'erreur.16@r 17:28, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Proper conduct re categories

Please do not empty categories without seeking consensus to take them out of the system on Categories for deletion. Thank you. CalJW 19:56, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Re: Wikimapia

Hello! About your questions concerning Wikimapia: you may find all information on WikiMapia page.

Jack

Asking your permission....

Hello, I hope you are doing great. I would like you to review these comments you have made: There's a couple problems with the section named "GPD and organization of the economy" - aside that the title itself could be better phrased and it's "GDP" not GPD.... a good lot of this section is now allocated to office rental costs, but not only is this hardly at all relevent to Paris' economy, it is a subject that would have a better place in the demography section (office space vs. living space, reasons thereof, etc). In short, I think this should go in favour of more valueable information. I can tend to this if you like. Notice that there is a few spelling and grammar errors in them. With your permission, I would like to edit your comments into this: There's a couple of problems with the section named "GPD and organization of the economy" - aside that the title itself could be better phrased and it's "GDP" not GPD.... a good lot of this section is now allocated to office rental costs, but not only is this hardly at all relevent to Paris' economy, it is a subject that would have a better place in the demography section (office space vs. living space, reasons thereof, etc). In short, I think this should go in favour of more valuable information. I can tend to this if you like.

You are the first user in which I am asking for your permission first before editing your comments to a more correct format. Notice also that these edits are very minor in nature and they do not in any way compromise the content of your comments. The main reason I am doing this is to improve the quality of comments on talk pages. This is to create a more professional image in Misplaced Pages talk pages as well as the other article talk pages. Please view this reference in my talk page here under sub-section 10, Misplaced Pages talk:Administrators' noticeboard. Thank You for your time and feedback on this. --Siva1979 18:22, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, rest assured, this was a completely random choice to have you as the first user and first comment to start editing talk pages on my part. Anyway, I wish to thank you for your encouraging comments on this. --Siva1979 20:07, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Ecclesiastical histories

A need of help. User:Fastifex added (IMHO, crappish and outofdate) ecclesiastical histories on some Italian communes articles (example: Gaeta, Camerino, Otranto). I moved such material to separate articles in the wake of what already done for Lyon or Bordeaux. However, Fastifex is sistematically reverting the moves without any debate; I think he's clearly the kind of user who got stick with personal editing and don't want to listen to others' opinions. Something similar happened when he stuck with prayers in saint articles, when a debate was in course about they were POV or NPOV: he reverted them anyway, without hearing any reason. I write this, in the case somewhat a edit war should ensue. maybe you can look at the articles, judge the solution I adopted and write him some line... Bye and thanks. --Attilios 22:40, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Fastifex is seeking for the edit war. He continues to revert my edits without warning or debate. I think his idea is to bring the thing to the third time-revert: he already used such a tactics to impose his stupid edits. Please, if you can, write a line to him if you agree with me. Ciao! --Attilios 08:05, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for the call to order you sent to Fastifex. An example of his latest masterworks: I jumped on a saint article from him, where he (better, the Catholic Enc. from which he copied abruptly) cited Porto, Italy and other places next to Rome without any reference... to Rome itself, so to any reader these places could well have been located in Andorra, Burkina Faso or Tonga. When I reported this to him, he jumped Catholic Encyclopedia and added the entry for Porto, Italy, which started this way: Porto is a city etc. Of course he omitted to specify that it was the nearest port to Rome, but the most comical detail is that Porto does not exist anymore!!! A genius! Ciao and thanks again! --Attilios 09:21, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Parish language issues

Thanks, but no thanks! :) Stevage 09:20, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Besides, you have enough 'Parish' problems with 'ecclesiastical histories' : ) THEPROMENADER 21:52, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Tallest Structures in Paris

Copied from my home french discussion page.

Hello! Aren't you the creator of the article fr:Liste_des_plus_hauts_bâtiments_d'Île-de-France? Or did you move it where it is today? If so, I find it a bit odd that you didn't have more to do with its integration into English Misplaced Pages - its English writ is not at all the same as its very straightforward and accurate French version! I won't get into the 'who did what' of this, but this has become a mountain out of a molehill - and long-winded, as all 'counter-fact' discussions usually are.

I frankly don't understand this urge to make Paris' suburbs seem, to the ignorant, as Paris itself - there is no discernable goal nor glamour in this faking of reality. Perhaps are we witnessing the 'local' phenomenon of the bad Paris-suburb relations, and the fact that suburbians think it somehow 'better' to be known as a Parisian? Being from a country where living in the suburbs is more 'chic' than living in the city centre, this concept is alien to me - but I do understand the differences, believe me! Anyhow, an encyclopedia is no place for sentiments such as these, so thanks for your help in introducing some referenced reality into the question. Let me just say that all articles on Misplaced Pages should reflect referenced works, and the "Tallest structures in Paris" article sure ain't that. Sorry for rambling but I'm pressed for time and can't edit things down. Anyhow, thanks for your input, past and future! Cheers. THEPROMENADER 30 juin 2006 à 09:43 (CEST)

PS: vous pouvez trés bien m'écrire en français, mais, s'il te plaît, pour sauvegarder le 'serieux' de nos discussions, ne m'en demandez pas autant : ) THEPROMENADER 30 juin 2006 à 09:48 (CEST)

Hello, ThePromenader!

Indeed, I created the french article Liste des plus hauts bâtiments d'Île-de-France. I remember Metropolitan wrote the list of tallest structures in Paris a few days before, and my only contribution was adding the "fr:" tag at the bottom. I translated some of his work, and wrote an account on what was measured. It still lacks sources, though.

Now, for the geography. In the french article, I solve it by considering buildings in the Île-de-France région. I believed the name to be fairly well known in the french speaking community, while accurately describing the location. It hasn't been challenged since.

Such a list should not stick to buildings in Paris proper. Doing so would scrap the second to fourteenth tallest buildings in the list, and some of them are very close to Paris. Heck, I actually live near Paris, and I'm working near La Défense. When asked, I'm just telling people I live in Paris, it's easier and there's always time later for precising.

So, the title isn't accurate. On the other hand, it's consistent with other titles such as List of tallest structures in London, it's not so wrong (nobody's really going to tell La Défense isn't Paris, even if it's true, in an administrative point of view). Blame it on the borders of french communes, which don't tell anything about parisian urbanism any more...

I would leave the "Paris" in the title, but I would make clear what's being listed, clearer than it is right now. In the french article, I wrote a "methodology" section at the top to do so.

Best regards. As you can see, I can write in English, eventhough the structure of my sentences may feel a bit awkward to a native english speaker (which is why I usually refrain from writing a lot of them in the english Misplaced Pages. — 08:33, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Continued from my home french discussion page.

So, the title isn't accurate. On the other hand, it's consistent with other titles such as List of tallest structures in London, it's not so wrong (nobody's really going to tell La Défense isn't Paris, even if it's true, in an administrative point of view). Blame it on the borders of french communes, which don't tell anything about parisian urbanism any more...

You know, I agree that the French commune system is backwards, but we can't bypass it in ignoring it or inventing names that don't exist ; ) "London" enjoys a status that Paris doesn't, that is to say that everything within "Greater London" is commonly known and referenced as "London" by people, reference and government. So if we were going to take the names of one of the towers in the "Tallest structures in London" article and do a google with 'London', or look at a reference book for 'towers in london' we are likely to find it directly, but if we were to do the same with suburban tower from "Tallest structures in Paris" and looked for it in anything "Paris" we would have much less chance of finding it. It is for this - other references - that we must remain true to existing conventions and other references - get me? If it is not true to reference then there is some sort of ulterior opinion or motive at work here, but what that motivation is is really of no concern to me or Wiki.

BTW, I wrote you here because you seem to be more active in the French pages - we can carry this on in the English Wiki - or on the article page itself! My initial letter just began with this question of authorship - but forgive me for digressing : ) Cheers. THEPROMENADER 08:57, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Continued from Poulpy's home french discussion page.

I've got no idea what the ideal title should be. Maybe we should broaden this by asking more people, but I don't know how to do so in the english Misplaced Pages. — Poulpy 30 juin 2006 à 11:25 (CEST)

Like everything in this discussion, I fall back on fact. I did a little googling this morning to see what the official organisations use for an English-language description of Paris and its suburbs, and for these it is "Paris Region" hands-down. "Paris area" in a worldwide search comes slightly ahead, but these resutlts contain much of a more touristic and "popular" nature - for me it's pretty straightforward, but if you'd like to put in a word I'd much appreciate it. If all else fails I'll be taking the government choice - anything is better than this article's present namespace, as as it is, it is just an untruth that, to anyone with knowledge above complete ignorance on the subject, makes Wiki look silly indeed. I don't think Wiki's goal is to give the ignorant what they "already know" : ) So let's call things as they are now so others won't need to find out otherwise later. Much appreciated. THEPROMENADER 09:03, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Signpost updated for July 3rd.

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Education in Paris

It's okay, no problem ;-) Thbz 08:00, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Re: Paris review

Thank you. I certainly will drop in sometime later. Paris and France have always enchanted me.
I couldn't find a guideline for French cities, so perhaps you could use this as an alternative. Try to stick to the length prescribed for each section, so the overall page does not go above wikipedia's prescribed limits. The Paris page is currently 82 kbs — almost double the permissible length. So you have some serious trimming to do. -- thunderboltz10:45, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Signpost updated for July 10th

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Signpost delivered by: RoyBoy 04:56, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Again stupid ecclesiastical histories

Despite having been many times warned that consensus was to have separate ecclesiastical history articles, our User:Fastifex is continuing to add such 1911 or Catholic Enc. shit within the entries of cities throughout all Europe. Please send him a line, if you want, and perhaps check sometimes his contributions if you have time in the next months, as I'll be without Internet until September. Ciaoooo and good work!--Attilios 12:50, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Paris gap

Yea there was about a 6 inch gap between the beginning of the article (the table of contents) and the first line. This was caused by the infobox. So, what I did was just move the image of the Eiffel tower to the Climate section, which may be somewhat inappropriate, but I don't think its a problem. Also, yes I am using IE. When you go back to the version before mine, is there a gap on your browser? Perhaps its just mine, although I don't have any reason to believe that mine is not standard. Regards, AdamBiswanger1 17:44, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

The formatting looks good, but I kinda think the infobox should be up top, to conform with the precedent (London, Berlin, Warsaw,etc.) What do you think? AdamBiswanger1 18:06, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

I shall when I get some time here at work. Au revoir : ) AdamBiswanger1 18:17, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

An award for you

ThePromenader, I hereby award you the Photographer's Barnstar for your beautiful photo of the Eiffel Tower at night, in spite of its complex copyright status. I hope you will contribute many more photos to Misplaced Pages in the years to come!--Eloquence* 03:58, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Reverts

I agree that the reference you reverted was not a proper one, it had the appearance of a novel synthesis from multiple sources. However, you should not revert-war. Although the anon should not either... Anyway, you were reported at WP:AN/3RR and you might like to comment there. Just zis Guy you know? 11:51, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I've just left my third and last message on the referral Hardouin has cast upon you, which will be my last in this incident as I am once again faced with a brick wall. Very much like squash or ping-pong backatcha. I believe I have made my point to onlookers and to anyone who wishes to participate and understand the ridicule of the situation which does justify me involving myself more on this matter. I hope I've done well, good weekend to you. Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons 13:54, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

User notice: temporary 3RR block

Regarding reversions made on July 14 2006 (UTC) to Paris

You have been temporarily blocked for violation of the three-revert rule. Please feel free to return after the block expires, but also please make an effort to discuss your changes further in the future.

Signpost updated for July 17th

You are receiving this message because you have signed up for the Signpost spamlist. If you wish to stop receiving these messages, simply remove your name from the list. --Michael Snow 05:35, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

User notice: temporary 3RR block

Regarding reversions made on July 18 2006 (UTC) to List of tallest buildings and structures in Paris

You have been temporarily blocked for violation of the three-revert rule. Please feel free to return after the block expires, but also please make an effort to discuss your changes further in the future.

Re your mail - if thats a promise to be good (reply here if so; means you promise to obey 3RR carefully in future and leave the article alone for 24h) I can unblock you William M. Connolley 19:13, 18 July 2006 (UTC)