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User talk:Linas

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Byrgenwulf (talk | contribs) at 14:58, 19 July 2006 (→No personal attacks: What utter nonsense). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Older stuff at


"Was this reviewed?"

On Misplaced Pages:Village pump (proposals) you wrote:

... much of the burden of revieweing edits could be improved with better tools. For example, I would love to know if one of my trusted collegues has already reviewed the same edit I'm reviewing. This would greatly reduce my review burden, and allow me to monitor many, many, many more articles. linas 23:35, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

Fantastic idea. Do you know whether there is some ongoing discussion on such things? (Feel free to reply here; I'm watching this page.) — Nowhither 18:36, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

I suspect there is, but I know not where. I have noticed that the wikimedia software made an attempt at implementing something like this, but it was either a hack or mis-designed or incomplete. You can see this on newer wikimedia sites, for example . If you look at edit histories, you'll see red exclamation marks denoting unreviewed pages. But you'll also notice that any sockpuppet can reset them, ... so it really doesn't work correctly. So it seems someone thought about it, but I don't know what the status is, or where its going, or who is doing it. You'll have to look up the wikimedia folks.
Anyway, what I really want is actually fancier than what I wrote at the village pump, but I thought I'd keep it simple. I'd happily engage in a conversation with the wikimedia developers if you can locate them. linas 04:01, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
To clarify: This site runs the latest version of the wikimedia software, but the review system is turned off because it hurts performance. -- Jitse Niesen (talk) 11:23, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
Hmm, yes, it could be written as a fancy SQL query, and that would make the lights dim. Is this MySQL or Postgres? I'm guessing there are ways to make this more efficient, by using status bits of various kinds, requiring table redesigns. No matter, I didn't like the way the red exclamation marks worked anyway; they weren't really useful. linas 14:20, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
The WikiMedia sites are using MySQL. I was wrong by the way: the feature that you described is called "RC patrol", it's described on m:Help:Patrolled edit, and it seems that it was turned off because anybody could mark an edit as patrolled (as you already noticed, see also this mail and replies). I was confusing it with the m:Article validation feature, which is a more elaborate scheme that is disabled for performance reasons. -- Jitse Niesen (talk) 15:05, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Hmm, thanks for the links, I'll have to prowl around there a bit. My other bit of patrol paranoia is that it is easy to review only the most recent change; thus a "bad edit" could be hidden in the history and overlooked. Thus, I'd prefer to see *all* changes since I last looked. linas 04:01, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Original documents for Principle of Least Action

Hi Linas, it's Willow again. I added three of the original documents (along with their translations) in the development of the principle of least action to their respective Wikisources; see my userpage for more details (under "Inter-Wiki stuff"). They still need proofreading by others, but I think they're more-or-less OK for reading, and thought that you might enjoy them. It's strange and interesting how vehemently Euler defends Maupertuis' priority in 1752, when it is clear that Maupertuis asserts his principle in 1744 only for light (not matter) and does so with little justification. Maupertuis' one interesting argument is that space and time should be equivalent but, in the refraction of light, time is minimized (Fermat's principle) but not distance. On that basis alone, Maupertuis asserts that the principle of least action is more fundamental than Fermat's principle. Euler, on the other hand, is the first to assert the principle for material particles, and the first to note its requirement that speed be a function of position alone (i.e., that the particle's total energy be conserved). Euler's later misrepresentation of Maupertuis' achievements is really odd, and almost makes one wonder whether Euler was being blackmailed or trying to gain some professional benefit. But perhaps we're still missing some documents that might shed more light on the story. Willow 11:33, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

I'll have to digest this slowly. At Accord des diferntes... you indicate "trouvé à Gallica", but there's no URL ... did you go to the library? Similar remarks apply to the other texts. Lovely picture of the knitter, by the way. linas 00:56, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi, linas, I like the Bouguereau painting, too; there aren't so many flattering pictures of us knitters!

I translated the part of Maupertuis' 1746 article that concerns mechanics (the first two parts concern proofs of God's existence) and was dismayed to find several things. Maupertuis takes credit for having invented the principle of least action as a general principle, although it's clear that he proposed it only for light in 1744. He cites Euler's 1744 book and thanks him for his "beautiful application of my principle to planetary motion". Even worse, when Maupertuis tries to apply "his" principle to elastic and inelastic collisions, and to the equilibrium of a lever, he seems to mis-apply it. When you get a chance, could you please look over the latest article and see whether you agree? Perhaps I'm being unfair to Maupertuis. I confess, I'm even beginning to suspect that he didn't know any calculus (e.g., what an integral is); if so, it would be a strange quirk of history to credit him with a principle that relies so much on an integral. ;) Willow 17:17, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

I think that perhaps you want to start thinking about writing an essay on this topic. I'm not sure where to put it: on some blog somewhere, where you can try to generate interest? At a minimum, you may want to post to Misplaced Pages:WikiProject History of Science, and stir it up there. If you find your essay starts gaining length and heft, then publication is some journal of history starts becoming an option. Anyway, I shall try looking at the translations -- but again, I ask, will I be able to find the Latin originals online? linas 19:40, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
I copied this to Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject History of Science. Oh, and so the pressing question seems to become "why did Euler go ballistic in Maupertius defense?" Was he really that forceful? linas 20:02, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
You might also try "google scholar" to see if anyone has written about Maupertius or lest action recently, and then contacting them for an opinion. I'm trying it now:
Seem like http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=Maupertuis+Least+action+history yeilds some good hits.linas 20:23, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

No personal attacks

Regarding Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/Cognitive-Theoretic_Model_of_the_Universe: Please see Misplaced Pages's no personal attacks policy. Comment on content, not on the contributor; personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that continued personal attacks may lead to blocks for disruption. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you. Tim Smith 14:54, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Just to let you know, Linas, that DrL deleted most of the comment you wrote on the AfD...and moved your opinion to the talk page. Apparently stating one's opinion of what Misplaced Pages should be doing is "libel" now. Funny how none of the abuse poured upon me (about which I complained to no-one) was removed by these kind, concerned, people who are "not personally involved" in the saga, isn't it? Byrgenwulf 14:58, 19 July 2006 (UTC)