Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Rainmaker23 (talk | contribs) at 02:15, 17 February 2015 (→Seeking your opinion: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Each Monday I am taking a stand against whoever it is who runs this show and doesn't care about editor retention. Along with some others, I am withdrawing my labour every Monday as a reminder that protecting the quality of wikipedia pages isn't possible because volunteers burn out if they try. Please join us. You'll be glad you did.

However, I gathered some data to show that this essay is not the answer. If we take a break or retire from editing, pages do deteriorate, there is no safety net for them. If the central administration doesn't care about editor retention, then there's not much that a few individual editors can do.

The Monday song

12 December 2024
News and notes: Arbitrator election concludes Arbitration report: Palestine-Israel articles 5 Disinformation report: Sex, power, and money revisited Op-ed: On the backrooms by Tamzin In focus: Are Misplaced Pages articles representative of Western or world knowledge? In the media: Like the BBC, often useful but not impartial Traffic report: Something Wicked for almost everybody Opinion: Worm That Turned's reconfirmation RfA debriefing
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1: May 2012 – July 2012 2: August 2012 – 22 March 2013 3: March 2013 wikibreak 4: March 2013 – June 2013 5: July 2013 – February 2014 6: March 2014 – 30 June 2014 7: July 2014 – 6 September 2014 8: 7 September 2014 –

Flax

I just finished reading the article on Flax. I found many instances of awkward wording. I fixed some of them but left others, unsure of the best way to fix them. If and when you have time, perhaps you could go through the article. I think you'll find some of the ones I left. If you don't see them, I'll point them out. Also, in the section on "Threshing", there is a list that is kind of in the instructional tone of a manual. I don't know what you want to do with that. CorinneSD (talk) 21:59, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

It might take me a while to get to that. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 12:27, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Did you ever get to this? (I just saw this.) Do you have Flax on your watchlist? See latest edits. CorinneSD (talk) 00:25, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

That article needs a major re-organization as well as smaller-scale changes, and the major part has defeated me so far. I looked at the latest changes which look a bit odd, but on checking the citation about safety, it does in fact say that flax oil in general is reasonably safe, not just the trademarked product that is the subject of the application. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 18:29, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Rhubarb

Just wondered if you had seen all the edits to Rhubarb. CorinneSD (talk) 22:59, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

The reversion is correct. WP:PLANTS decided to follow the Angiosperm Phylogeny Group classification which is available online and is constantly updated as new research becomes available. It has a rather large order Caryophyllales, which differs from the scheme that was used by most authors a couple of decades ago. Undoubtedly, the person who changed it to Polygonales was looking at one of those old "authoritative" references. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 11:20, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

I was just reading the latest comment at Talk:Rhubarb#toxicity oxalic acid. I glanced at the article and was surprised by an image in Rhubarb#Toxicity of rhubarb flowers. The photo is very dark. It looks like it was taken at night. Isn't there a better photo that shows the plant's flowers than this one? CorinneSD (talk) 22:54, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Opopanax, Bdellium

Hi, I see you've sorted an issue at Opopanax. I suspect the same goes for Bdellium? There could be others. Chiswick Chap (talk) 20:02, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Oh, I hadn't seen the recent drastic change on Bdellium. At this point I'm rather upset about the Opopanax change, expecting to be reverted there, so I'm not sure how much I can do, hence my appeal for other WP:PLANTS editors to look at that problem. Good to know about it; perhaps in time we can smooth out the wrinkles. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 13:48, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

Many thanks. I'll try and support if you get reverted. Chiswick Chap (talk) 21:08, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

Opopanax

You deleted my edit in Opopanax and keep reverting the article to an inferior version, and you left only a cryptic and general template on my talk page. What's wrong? --El Cazangero (talk) 08:03, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

I looked over the page history, and it seems to me that Sminthopsis84 is quite correct to revert your changes. All the sources I've looked at confirm that "opopanax" is a term with a very confused meaning (see the definitions here and here). You are picking out one sense and making it the meaning in the article. It's never quite clear to me what the best solution is in such cases; if enough information is available perhaps more than one article might work. Peter coxhead (talk) 09:19, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

He mutilated the article by putting the history section into the introduction, and he deleted a referenced sentence stating that Commiphora erythrea was the ancient source of myrrh, while today it is Commiphora myrrha.

Identifying ancient plants is a difficult matter to start with, in addition, many plant names have changed their meaning throughout history. For biblical plants, the older literature is Loew, Zohary and Moldenke, aside from Feliks, who wrote the plant entries of the Encyclopaedia Judaica (2nd ed.), but none of their important works is available through Google books. --El Cazangero (talk) 23:11, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

"deleted a referenced sentence stating that Commiphora erythrea was the ancient source of myrrh, while today it is Commiphora myrrha": please point to that statement in the page history, I can't see it. You are mutilating a number of articles by removing disambiguation information intended to help the reader. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 15:32, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

It is actually there as the penultimate sentence of the History section in this version. However, if you look at the referenced source here it's not clear that it's well supported. The relevant bit is in the last paragraph of the first column on p. 4 where, as far as I can make out, the authors are actually repeating information from their reference 3, so if it is used in the article it should be sourced to Tucker, A.O. (1986) Frankincense and Myrrh, Econ Bot 40, 425–433, or to this source cited in Hanuš et al. (2005) if we can't get hold of the Tucker paper.

Also the botany in Hanuš et al. (2005) is very confused. Look at col. 1 p. 6 as just one example. There they have "Commiphora myrrha Holmes" twice, "Commiphora myrrh (Nees) Engler" once, and then plain "Commiphora myrrha". Are these meant to be the same species? They have "C. molmol Engl. ex Tschirch (Somalian myrrh)" as a distinct species on p. 4, "C. molmol (Engl.) Engl." explicitly as a synonym of Commiphora myrrha (Nees) Engl. on p. 7, and then later on the same page (p. 7) " natural product isolated first from Commiphora molmol and later from Commiphora myrrh oil". Basically it's an unreliable source for any botanical information, however reliable the chemistry may be. Peter coxhead (talk) 16:31, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

Seconded. The ancient descriptions are of great interest, but they are difficult to relate to modern species; the best we can do is to cite the ancient and modern sources, and state clearly from them what the possibilities and uncertainties are. This goes for all the articles involved. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:15, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

El Cazangero

Finding more copyvio at Queen of Sheba. A shame. He means well I'm sure but doesn't understand our policies and thinks we are somehow doing something nefarious by bringing them up. We'll see how he responds to my edits and my posts to his talk page. Dougweller (talk) 10:06, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

You did a very nice job of trying to explain this to him; I hope the message gets through. It would be a pity to have to bring a CCI down on him, but that may be necessary to protect wikipedia. Some of his inserted text is small enough that with lots of effort we could probably just fix it, but unfortunately there are other misunderstandings that get in the way of that. He has been arguing with several editors about changes that make a muddle for readers; some evidence is above at #Opopanax, where he accuses me of mutilating an article by inserting material into the lead section. He doesn't seem to see hyperlinking and encyclopedic structure as good things. I'm not sure if you have been looking at the articles he has been working on about plant-derived products, Opopanax, Balsam, Bdellium. There is a serious problem there that is not his fault, that he is using poor sources. There are materials by botanists (I'm still tracking one of those down) that discuss the plants and say that much misinformation has been copied and re-copied, and it is that misinformation that he has found. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 12:16, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. Botany isn't at all my field, and apologies to all and especially User:Hafspajen, I hate beetroot. But it appears the problems may be worse than I thought. Dougweller (talk) 14:22, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

No problem, Doug, just go and hate it, no worries (the beetroot). Hafspajen (talk) 14:24, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

Beetroot brownie recipes on the Web look quite good, might get the stove working to try those out. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 15:22, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

I've made a CCI request at WP:CCI. Dougweller (talk) 11:28, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

(SSss.. Think about poor Doug... ... ) Hafspajen (talk) 11:32, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Doug, I'll try to keep watch for a CCI list to be constructed, and I should be able to help with the clean-up. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 12:23, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Balm of Gilead

There is another discussion on the talk page, or rather, I've started a discussion and another editor is trying an edit-war instead. Some kind of help would be useful. Lovely photos of Sissinghurst, by the way. Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:17, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

The problem there has become so large that I haven't been able to see a way in to cleaning it up. Your efforts are commendable! Perhaps the way to approach it is to fix one page thoroughly, Balm of Gilead, and then worry about the redirects and all the other pages afterwards. (I'm a bit disabled at present because someone insisted that my computer's operating system had to be upgraded, and now my bibliography software doesn't work. Perhaps in 2 or 3 days I'll be able to work effectively again.) Sminthopsis84 (talk) 18:33, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

Pansy

I've just started reading the article on Pansy. I just wondered what you thought of the last two sentences in the section Pansy#Names and terminology. I never heard that information about what pansies are sometimes called in the U.S. CorinneSD (talk) 00:06, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

That's unsourced, and I think it could (should) be removed; it sounds like a passing in-joke. If you wanted to organize a Vernacular names section, some of that material could be separated. There are too many images on that page ... Sminthopsis84 (talk) 13:03, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

Eh? What? To many images?? OK, that picture that you asked about is obviously a copyvio issue, tell Stefan or some other guy who works whit this issues. Hafspajen (talk) 13:31, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

People put in their latest photos, it seems, all similar. I made a deletion request. Not sufficient? Should I bother Stefan? Sminthopsis84 (talk) 13:51, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

Sure, that's fine. Hafspajen (talk) 13:53, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

@Sminthopsis84: please see my comment at Talk:Pansy#Taxobox and nomenclatural issues. I'd greatly value your opinion on this issue. Peter coxhead (talk) 16:44, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

There seem to be messes wherever one looks for information about Pansies and Violas. I'll go to the library to see what Gleason and Cronquist have to say, since there is a mangled mention of them on that page. USDA GRIN is interesting, it says "Viola ×wittrockiana Gams Synonyms: (=) Viola ×hortensis auct. (=) Viola tricolor hort." I'd paraphrase that as people are calling them by whatever name they choose, and the synonyms are heterotypic. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 17:08, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

Well, my experience of looking for information largely agrees with yours. However, there do seem to be some recent reliable horticultural sources using the name "Viola Wittrockiana Group", e.g. this. However, what exactly is covered by this name? All hybrid cultivars involving species from Viola sect. Melanium? Some subset of such cultivars? Peter coxhead (talk) 18:31, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

That's interesting, demonstrating that USDA GRIN has the latest information. So when GRIN says "complex hybrid, perhaps involving V. tricolor × V. lutea × V. altaica?" that seems to be the best attempt available to pin down the identity of the holotype. To my mind, the most illuminating statement I've seen is that V. wittrockiana is an octoploid that behaves like an autotetraploid, and I think therefore that when people refer to autopolyploid V. wittrockiana they are talking about the original strain. Selective breeding on such an organism would be difficult, and I expect that explains the experiments with cross-pollination that produced reduced chromosome numbers (through parthenogenesis).

It is said that different people were working on hybrids with V. tricolor at around the same time, but I wonder if the story has become confused, so that some of the products were the so-called violas and violettas, that may simply be confused through the common name "pansy". I think it would be very helpful to know the chromosome numbers of those. I'd like to know the chromosome number of V. tricolor L. non hort. too.

A taxonomist who accepts that there is more than one species in sect. Melanium would not, I'm sure, lump species of different hybrid origin together. If multiway hybridization occurs, they probably would merge the species under one name, not the wittrockiana name, but the name of an original species (because of nomenclatural priority).

Gleason and Cronquist take that approach. They offer no enlightenment that I can see, except perhaps the common names; everything they list is a violet except V. tricolor L. Pansy "Native to the Old World, modified by extensive horticultural hybridization, and rarely escaping from cult. in our range." and V. arvensis Murr. European field-pansy. "In cult. or abandoned fields ... native to Europe."

I'd like to see the page become about V. wittrockiana, the octoploid. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 19:22, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

Regarding "too many images", I'll leave it to you to decide how many is appropriate. I just wanted to point out that two of the images -- the pink one next to Pansy#Names and terminology and the lavender one next to Pansy#Slugs and snails -- have nearly the same caption, describing the arrangement of petals. Perhaps only one description is sufficient.

I also wanted to point out an interesting comment on the talk page of the article (which I saw after reading Peter's comments). It's at Talk:Pansy#appears to be subtly sexist language in the Historical Background section. The comment was posted in 2012, and besides a short silly comment right below it, no one has responded to it. The text in question is still in the article. I know it's a minor point, but I think it is a valid point. CorinneSD (talk) 19:13, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

Oh dear, we really need some original literature for this. Perhaps it is just remotely possible that the gardener's employer receive instruction on how to artificially cross-pollinate the different species, so that it could be said that she did it under the supervision of her gardener ... If so, clarification would be in order! It does look very much like one of those all-too-common situations where wikipedia manages to invert a statement, to get the meaning backwards. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 19:26, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

Betanin

If you have time, could you review the latest edits to Betanin? CorinneSD (talk) 23:23, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

Worcesterberry

There seems to be some confusion over the name "Worcesterberry" in the UK. The RHS does list it as an English name for Ribes divaricatum, so the recent addition can be sourced, but it also lists Ribes 'Worcesterberry' as a cultivar here. However, I can't find anything more about the cultivar in a reliable source, unfortunately, and at least one of the nurseries the RHS lists as selling the cultivar actually lists it as R. divaricatum. Peter coxhead (talk) 17:54, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

Yes, it seems quite confused. I've sent you email about this. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 19:32, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

Flax

Did you see the comment at Talk:Flax#Rancid flax product dangers? CorinneSD (talk) 02:49, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

I wonder about this edit to Flax: While flax may be mentioned in the Ayurveda, I'm not sure that this information should be included in a sentence about traditional Austrian medicine that is referenced.

Also, I was looking at the edit just before this one: . While it is true that peacock words should not be in WP articles, there may be something special about the stability of properly stored milled flax that is worth mentioning. Perhaps a different adjective would be appropriate. (I also think cutting out all qualifying adjectives from articles makes the writing boring.) What do you think? CorinneSD (talk) 17:50, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Beetroot

You'll appreciate the latest edit to Beetroot. Beets on hamburgers. Hmm. While you're there, you might check the edits just before that one by the same editor. CorinneSD (talk) 23:21, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

Oh, my gosh. I just saw all the pictures higher up on this page of beets used in cooking, and lots of discussion and other pictures. I missed all that when my computer wasn't working. Well, what do you think of beets on hamburgers? CorinneSD (talk) 23:25, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

Dill

I was just looking at the latest edit to Dill; I saw that the editor added a comma after a reference, and I think "punctuation goes before references" (but I don't know how to add that automatically as I've seen done). I was going to change it, but then I saw that the last part of the sentence doesn't seem to belong in the etymology section at all. I wonder how it got there. Do you want to fix this? CorinneSD (talk) 23:41, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

Thomas W. Whitaker

I have this in main article space now. Can you look it over for accuracy, format, copy editing, etc etc? Then we can DYK it. Thank you. HalfGig talk 00:32, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Already made the DYK nomination. HalfGig talk 01:02, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Template:Did_you_know_nominations/Thomas_W._Whitaker I'm sure nothing will be done about that insult. HalfGig talk 10:17, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Isatis tinctoria

I was looking at the latest edit to Isatis tinctoria. While I understand changing "Other states" to "These states" (because no state had been mentioned in the text -- although the first reference mentions Arizona). However, since there is a reference right after the statement beginning "These states include...", I'm wondering whether the first reference (the one that mentions Arizona) is necessary. There's not much that needs referencing in that first sentence (the one just before the Arizona reference). CorinneSD (talk) 22:39, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

It was duplicating the citation too. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 13:03, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Cucurbita 2

You should read and responde here: User_talk:CorinneSD#Cucurbita HalfGig talk 23:50, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Hope you don't mind; I removed my user name from the heading. Do you agree with this edit? CorinneSD (talk) 17:22, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

(I hope I did what was wanted back in November.) Yes, I was raised to take that sort of action in response to "comprised of", to turn it into "comprising" or "composed of". Sminthopsis84 (talk) 18:54, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

I've discussed this several times with Rothorpe. I think "comprised of" is American English. We also use "composed of". There's a slight difference in meaning between those so the word has to be chosen carefully. We hardly ever use "comprise" or "comprises". The first time I saw it was on WP. CorinneSD (talk) 19:15, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

American English is very odd to me sometimes. I stick to the French-derived meaning only. I've heard statements like "The members comprise the team." quite often, but wouldn't use that myself. I think there is a small problem with "an embryo composed of two rather large cotyledons" since Cucurbita seeds are apparently quite normal and contain a plumule, radicle, and hypocotyl as well. () Sminthopsis84 (talk) 20:00, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Well, it is well-worded now. What other American English usages have you found odd? One that I hear often is, "If I would have seen/heard/known...., I would have...." with "would have" in both parts of the sentence, instead of "If I had seen/heard/known..." Also, "less people" instead of "fewer people". "Few" and "fewer" seem to be disappearing. CorinneSD (talk) 00:09, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Something like "if I would have" occurs in Australian dialects too, or even "if I would of". I was ruminating about some of the odd usages that might or might not be peculiarly American, particularly those where the meaning is in some sense reversed, like comprise to mean makes up rather than includes, decimate to remove 90% instead of to remove 10%, oversight to mean something other than a lapse, a billion to mean fewer than the other billion. I think we should avoid them if at all possible, even if the usage becomes common. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 00:33, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Another word to avoid that has two rather opposite meanings, gratuitous (). Sminthopsis84 (talk) 16:14, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks

Well that was a good example of why I feel I shouldn't edit these pages. That was a "false friend" I didn't was aware of, thank you. --RoRo (talk) 16:02, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

You are very welcome. It's also a good example of why I don't edit pages in other languages, even a language that I sometimes speak. Of course, I should do so, in order to learn. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 16:21, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

Julia Wilmotte Henshaw

I just created this. I thought you may like to work on it. She's a Canadian botanist who served in WWI. HalfGig talk 17:14, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

I have doubts about the claim that she scientifically described Cypripedium acaule. There is certainly a description of it in her books, e.g., here. The name is due to Aiton, who provides a Latin description here. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 18:16, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

I noticed that too. Is there anything she is officially credited with describing? Also found varying dob dod dates, made a note. When we're done smoothing this, we can DYK it if you like. I'm done for the moment. HalfGig talk 18:26, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

She did name Claytonia sessilifolia (Torr.) Henshaw, based on Claytonia caroliniana var. sessilifolia Torr., about which IPNI says "comb. nov. was made inadvertently; direct reference to the basionym lacking; Henshaw (Wild Fl. N. Amer. Mt. 124. 1915) abandoned C. sessilifolia and used C. lanceolata". So no, there apparently isn't anything worth mentioning. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 19:09, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Interesting. Anything else you want to do on this or shall we DYK it? HalfGig talk 19:35, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

What would you say about her for DYK? Her anti-suffrage, pro-conscription activities may be interesting. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 23:20, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Yea, I'll cook something up and give you the nomination link and you can look over, propose alternates, etc. HalfGig talk 00:12, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

There she goes: Template:Did you know nominations/Julia Wilmotte Henshaw HalfGig talk 01:08, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

I'm glad to see that Nomen ambiguum figured out what was going on with Cypripedium acaule! Sminthopsis84 (talk) 18:25, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Flax 2

I just wondered what you thought of the latest edit to Flax in which an editor removed a clause saying when the Neolithic period began, saying it was misleading. I looked at the article on the Neolithic, and the date for the beginning of that period given in the first paragraph of the lead corroborates "about 12,000 years ago". Do you think it is misleading? CorinneSD (talk) 00:04, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

I don't understand what that editor meant, but it is apparently untrue. The article cited says no such thing. It would have been useful, I think, to explain when the Neolithic revolution started, but no mention of it was appropriate, it seems. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 17:17, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

A bowl Pea Blossoms for you!

The Pea Blossom is widely appreciated for its characteristic aroma, bright colors, juicy texture, and sweetness. Hafspajen (talk) 17:33, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

How lovely! The title "pea blossoms" is an unusual one in English, I think, where they are usually called "sweet peas", though that is ambiguous because the little green vegetables are also called "sweet peas". They are wonderful flowers: sometimes it's possible to buy them for botany classes, and the students generally refuse to dissect them, or if they do they take even the half-flowers home with them. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 17:47, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Eh, it was in the picture file name. Do you eat them? Hafspajen (talk) 18:04, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Not a good idea, apparently. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 19:01, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Well, I used to eat Robinia flowers in pankake dough. Very tasty. Hafspajen (talk) 15:19, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

I don't know if it is just the seeds that people worry about. "Culinary herbs" Small, Ernest, NRC Research Press, 2006. just says "Do not confuse pea with sweet pea (Lathyrus odoratus L.), which is poisonous (Creasy 1988). The citation is to Creasy, R. 1988. "Cooking from the garden". Sierra Club Books, San Francisco. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 15:34, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

If they say so, they are probably right. I only tasted Robinia flowers. But that is quite common to eat, I think. here, delicious! Hafspajen (talk) 16:20, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

I've never tasted Robinia flowers. There are a lot of R. pseudoacacia around here because of a crazy government plan in the 1960 to get people to plant trees, not native trees, just cheap trees, so the spiny suckers are quite a hazard in "natural" areas. There are a lot of ornamental R. × ambigua with the magenta flowers here, and the golden-leaf R. pseudoacacia cultivars, which, mercifully, seem to be spineless. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 17:14, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

HM, why not plant something from the enviromrent around you? It tastes god, like vegetables and honey and flowers. Hafspajen (talk) 18:47, 19 November 2014 (UTC) What do you eat? Hafspajen (talk) 18:56, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Hey, can't talk English!! As world economic history always told us, that the costly spending sources economic models always had economy of spending costs, so that the starting of costly spending sources economic models always had start from the low cost of raw sources materials and low cost of industrial processing of this raw sources materials, that’s why I believe, that the natural raw sources materials which had a much valence was developed in the first place! As the world industrial history always told, that at first was developed a mineral raw sources which had a low cost of raw material production, as well as had a natural raw sources material which had a low cost of industrial processing, so that I believe that natural gases which had a much valence was developed in the first place. Am I sounding weird.? Hafspajen (talk) 19:25, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Hmm, yes. What have you been eating? What valence or valence or valence did it have? Sminthopsis84 (talk) 12:29, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Oh, just tried some pea Pea Blossoms - Hafspajen (talk) 13:08, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Oh no, you seemed to become a bot! Sminthopsis84 (talk) 13:44, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

It is very difficult you know. Will you give oppinion on explosions? Hafspajen (talk) 13:53, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

It's difficult to be a bot? Well that makes sense. Some people who started out able to use language, after going through extensive post-graduate training have come out writing rather as you did above. I guess it takes a lot of work to become a bot (or the right plant). I commented on the explosions. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 14:38, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Collard greens

I was just looking at the latest edits to Collard greens. I made a few minor copy-edits, but then I continued reading a bit. I saw a sentence that I wanted to ask you about. It's the last sentence in the section Collard greens#Nutritional information. It reads:

• Researchers at the University of California at Berkeley have recently discovered that 3,3'-diindolylmethane in Brassica vegetables such as collard greens is a potent modulator of the innate immune response system with potent antiviral, antibacterial and anticancer activity.

I wonder if both instances of the word "potent" are necessary. If it's best to have some adjective before both "modulator" and the final phrase, perhaps a synonym could be substituted for one of them. CorinneSD (talk) 23:40, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

I think it would be more readable without the first of those two. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 12:31, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

O.K. CorinneSD (talk) 23:54, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Eggplant

Do you agree with the latest edit to Eggplant? An editor changed "India and Bangladesh" to "the region of South Asia". CorinneSD (talk) 23:42, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

I think that sounds reasonable. I'd have to go to the library to check that book, and am not sure when I could do that. Other books that I have say that the wild species grows on dry hills, and that GRIN says that it has a wide distribution all the way to the middle east without listing Bangladesh (it might be old info, from when Bangladesh was part of Pakistan), so an exact place where domestication occurred could be hard to pin down. Another GRIN page says that two independent origins seem likely, though I don't know how that meshes with the phylogenetic data saying that the "insanum" and "incanum" groups overlap and aren't really distinguishable. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 13:18, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

I guess I'll have to read the article again, but I was surprised to read somewhere, when I looked at your recent edits, that eggplant exists only as a result of cultivation. I suppose that is probably true of some other plants as well, but the idea that a vegetable or fruit only exists as a result of careful human work is interesting. I'm wondering, what was it before it was developed/cultivated by humans? Was it a little fruit? And why is Italian eggplant often round while Asian eggplant is long and skinny? Was that just a result of the preferences of the local people? Regarding the possible two independent origins of cultivation, (a) is that at all related to the two general shapes I just mentioned, and (b) couldn't eggplant (fruit, seeds, or plants) have been carried by ship from the Middle East to the Far East, or vice versa? CorinneSD (talk) 23:53, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

I didn't put in a good citation for that statement, though it is implied in the three articles that I read (one of them the GRIN database). It is fairly common for cultivated crops to be considered a different species, either traditionally by botanists who saw the obvious differences in shape, toxicity, etc., or by modern botanists who find that the crop plant won't interbreed with its known or putative ancestor (the Biological species concept). I was searching for something that I consider interesting, but didn't find it in this case, that the crop plant could be tetraploid derived from a diploid ancestor or a tetraploid hybrid between two diploids (or octaploid as in strawberries, ...). The tetraploids generally can't interbreed with diploids, or only very occasionally, so it's an instant speciation event that interests me. The other questions you ask are, I think, exactly the ones that have puzzled scholars, and which there may be good recent answers for, but there's rather a flood of somewhat older literature that is confused and/or wrong. It's hard to sort out. I don't know if the two independent origins that GRIN mentions refers to the idea that they can be separated into Solanum melongena var. incana and Solanum melongena var. insana, which it is now said that they cannot. I hope that the generally available literature will become more readable soon. Characteristics of shape, texture, colour can be changed quite rapidly by selective breeding in many crops, someone just needs to find a mutant plant and propagate it, so I suspect that they might not be a good indicator of ancestry in this case either. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 00:09, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

This is slightly over my head, but I appreciate the explanation and learned something. I have two questions: 1) What is GRIN? and 2) What do "diploid" and "tetraploid" mean? CorinneSD (talk) 01:42, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Oh, GRIN is GRIN, Germplasm Resources Information Network. It's an excellent source, with at least one world-beating taxonomist on staff (I hope they pay him), but hasn't in all cases kept up with the latest plant taxonomy (inadequate funding, the usual problem). Diploid organisms have the "normal" number of chromosomes, and tetraploids have twice that number. A diploid and a tetraploid can almost never interbreed, and if they do their offspring are triploid, and triploids are almost entirely infertile. The number of chromosomes can double fairly often as eggs and sperm are made, and if two of those doubled ones get together, the result is a tetraploid. That spontaneous doubling therefore produces a ==>**new species**<== (fanfare). I had hoped to find that eggplants are tetraploid, but that may not be the case.

The problem with making the eggplant page totally make sense is one that we have rather often with crop plants, that the venerable sources that people want to cite for WP:RS are out of date. The new discoveries will take a bit longer to filter through to the standard texts. In the meantime, it is quite confusing. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 14:49, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation and the link to GRIN. This is why you're so valuable at WP! CorinneSD

File:Blush.png Sminthopsis84 (talk) 12:39, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Is this correct? CorinneSD (talk) 19:03, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

I just left a comment at User talk:Plantdrew#Eggplant if you want to see it. Let me know if you think I should just stay out of plant article edits because I don't know what I'm talking about. My ignorance of plants will be somewhere between obvious and glaring. I just don't like long, cumbersome, syntactically awkward sentences. Regarding your change of photo on your user page, I love the new photo! This animal is so cute. I've never seen one in real life. I don't see any teeth, much less ferocious ones, though. What is it eating? It looks like sage or eucalyptus leaves and seeds. CorinneSD (talk) 22:27, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

That page fits neatly with Peter's comment under #Cassava that pages about food plants are generally a mess as people add unsourced material in inconsistent ways (I just added a bit more). Polishing the prose would take a lot of work and watching to prevent it from deteriorating again.

Those would be eucalyptus leaves. I've seen a Sminthopsis crassicaudata in a zoo, eating a very large moth. Its manners were less like those of a mouse than those of a tiny crocodile. I've never seen a pictorial representation of that aspect of the little animals. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 23:07, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Regarding the animal, Sminthopsis crassicaudata, I can imagine what you're saying because of the long, pointed jaw. Regarding Eggplant, what do you think of Plantdrew's re-wording (see his/her talk page; link is above)? It looks pretty good, I think. CorinneSD (talk) 23:17, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

tb

I responded there. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 14:39, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Wondering about the spiral movement - though. Hafspajen (talk) 15:27, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Yes, that doesn't seem to be necessarily something one would see if the tips just spring apart. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 16:22, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

The article said that it was absent in Scandinavia, but really, wish it was absent - no, it is verry much present - actually the worst weed you have. Those blasted seeds explode all over the place when you just touch them wanting if to pull them out a flowebed. Sigh, ... and there you go, next years weeed are in. Hafspajen (talk) 17:09, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

A little earlier I saw that you had pruned your talk page. That must have been difficult. Don't you find it more manageable now? But I know it will get longer and more cluttered..er..filled with interesting discussions soon. Let me ask you something, when you type in "User:" in the search box -- just that -- what do you see in the autofill menu just below the search box? CorinneSD (talk) 00:52, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Tb? You write tb in the talkback template {{tb|some page}} Hafspajen (talk) 00:54, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

But why does one use that template? I see the template (light blue box just below the heading), but I still don't know what it's for. CorinneSD (talk) 01:07, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

What's occurring.. botheration .. cluttered? That is artistic.. very very much .. Hafspajen (talk) 01:02, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Yes, yes. It is artistic. Couldn't you gather all the images you and others have placed on your talk page in one place so that we can find them if we wanted to look at them again? CorinneSD (talk) 01:07, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Where in one place? Hafspajen (talk) 01

17, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

How does something like this work? While looking for that, I found this and this and wondered if they should be deleted. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 12:48, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Yes, please, delete them. Especially the kiwi. (I presume it is a kiwi .. not a landslide) Hafspajen (talk) 15:38, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Those are gone. Oof! The other one was a copyvio. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 14:37, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

(Oh, didn't notice the user name before.) A common confusion in New Zealand, perhaps. I couldn't see a way to find out if there were other similar usernames to that one, since it doesn't show up in the search box when I type just the first few letters. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 15:50, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

That I consider as a serious offence. What - watermelon ? Hafspajen (talk) 16:11, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

It's bad, and I'd guess it was not an isolated incident. I don't know admins at Commons; perhaps one of them could look for what other user names come from the same IP, but it's mobile, so I don't know what the possibilities for chasing such a thing could be. I expect that landslides in New Zealand might sometimes involve (big piles of) kiwi fruit. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 16:25, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

ACH ack. Hafspajen (talk) 16:39, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

A cold? Sminthopsis84 (talk) 16:41, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Nä. That would thanslate as Oh, ah, ahem... Vergeet mij nietje! Hafspajen (talk) 16:55, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Aldrig. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 17:14, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Elegant. Hafspajen (talk) 17:32, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

You think that the addition is OK? Hafspajen (talk) 21:55, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

So many additions, which one? Sminthopsis84 (talk) 22:07, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Yes maybe there are to many. Guess you didn't got my ping on Tb. Hafspajen (talk) 22:12, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

I didn't see a ping, just the tb template. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 22:21, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Ah, you got that now. Hafspajen (talk) 22:50, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

No, no problem - wonder why are people so lazy overthere. Before it was a lot of people voting, now is everybody nominating but don't care vote on others, and that is also part of the process. Hafspajen (talk) 18:25, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

I don't go to that page as often as I should. I just don't think of it. I'll look at the nominations a little later today and vote on some. Maybe there could be an icon or small box on the Misplaced Pages home page (the one with the featured article and the Did you know?), so people would see it and be reminded of it. Part of the problem for me is that I don't know how to judge the niceties (finer points) of image quality. CorinneSD (talk) 18:52, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Well, stick to art then. Hafspajen (talk) 18:58, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

• Sminty, CorinneSD what do you think of this edit? Hafspajen (talk) 20:04, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

That superscript photo is gone now. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 13:02, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

Yikes! It's completely ungrammatical and unclear, and unsourced. I would revert with an edit summary that says "Unclear, ungrammatical and unsourced". CorinneSD (talk) 00:14, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

It's nice to see that it was reverted as unsourced. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 01:03, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Indeed it was completely ungrammatical and unclear, and unsourced.. and I wonder if it was a joke or serious. Hafspajen (talk) 01:07, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Lots of pea blossoms went in to that edit, it would seem. Jee's note about poor quality means not in scope was very helpful about that other photo, I didn't know about that. Will try a deletion request. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 20:43, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Deletion requests don't need people to vote or comment on them, if I'm reading the instructions correctly, just admins to decide? Sminthopsis84 (talk) 20:56, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

I am not an expert on this - but if a picture is bad qualty and not used... Usually if nobody opposed they might be deleted if the admin thinks so. Hafspajen (talk) 21:09, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Hm, we had a lot of disruptions lately at FP, with a lot of socks ->Sockpuppet_investigation . Several accounts has been created and I think they are still in the process of being created as we speak. I always wonder when I see a new account suddenly popping up - nowadays. Wondered if this was one of them, actually. Hafspajen (talk) 19:25, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Walter Crane is also an interesting artist. Hafspajen (talk) 04:40, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

I'm amazed that all these images are becoming available. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 13:07, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Why? Hafspajen (talk) 14:36, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Just thought that someone would have asserted copyright on most of the world's images. Glad that isn't the case. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 16:35, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Walnut 2

Is the latest edit to Walnut all right? It looks like a link to an article in a foreign language Misplaced Pages -- de -- is that German? Is that usually done in WP articles? CorinneSD (talk) 01:34, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

I don't know what should be done about that. The editor is correct, that there ought to be a link in the left-hand column to the German wikipedia, and that coding achieves that. It should be encoded by the interwiki, but when one goes to add it there, a problem is revealed. The German wikipedia has gone (in my opinion quite overboard) with merging pages, so they have the page Walnüsse, which is the plural, Walnuts, and have Juglans, and Walnuss (walnut) redirecting there. The interwiki can't handle the fact that the English Juglans page already links to the German Walnüsse, so it won't allow any links from the English Walnut to the German wiki. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 13:38, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Oh, my goodness. Quite complicated. I'm glad you are able to figure out these kinds of things. CorinneSD (talk) 16:38, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

An editor added "not a nut" after "peanut" in the article on Walnut. I believe the editor is right in saying it is not a true nut, but then perhaps "peanut" should be removed from the list because it is a list of nuts other than walnuts. Without peanuts, there would be only two examples left, almonds and hazelnuts. Do you think that is enough, or should one more type of nut be added? CorinneSD (talk) 23:05, 15 December 2014 (UTC) CorinneSD (talk) 23:08, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

That is trivial information, not something that people should base dietary decisions on, but I edited it to more accurately reflect what the citation says. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 13:36, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

This is an interesting edit to Walnut: Americans usually pronounce "herb" (and "herbicide") with a silent "h"; I think British English pronounces the "h". I don't know about Canadian English. So "an herbicide" is O.K. for Americans and "a herbicide" for Brits. What does one do in such a case? Does it depend upon the variety of English that is predominant in the article? Or should we use "a herbicide" since at least some people in the U.S. pronounce the "h" (probably more in "herbicide" than "herb")? CorinneSD (talk) 17:19, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Featured picture candidates/Panyembrama

I was just looking at Misplaced Pages:Featured picture candidates/Panyembrama and was about to vote when I saw the caption under the photo. I had never heard "sacral" used to mean "sacred". Before making any comment about that, I decided to look at the article on Panyembrama and was surprised to see the word used at least twice in the article, including in the lead. I looked the word up on Wiktionary and saw two definitions: 1) of the sacrum, and 2) sacred. I always thought the only meaning of "sacral" would be the first one. (When I see "sacral" I think immediately of the back.) I was surprised to see the second one. Do you think it's all right to use "sacral" to mean "sacred" (instead of the more common "sacred") in both the article and the caption? CorinneSD (talk) 23:23, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

I agree that it is a less common use, but not as I first suspected only listed in wiki sources; there are established dictionaries that have that entry. In this case, I think that "It includes movements from several sacral Balinese dances" would suggest lower-back movement, and it would be better to say sacred! Sminthopsis84 (talk) 13:13, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

I agree, since I believe it was "sacred" that was meant, as in the article a contrast is made to secular dances. CorinneSD (talk) 16:15, 25 November 2014 (UTC) I just looked at Misplaced Pages:Featured picture candidates/Panyembrama and saw a recent comment -- actually two comments -- by User:Crisco 1492. Have you read them, particularly the first of the two, in which s/she offers an explanation of the use of "sacral"? Do you think that sufficiently explains the use of "sacral" over "sacred"? CorinneSD (talk) 16:20, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

I've left a suggestion there, but I suspect that people would come along and remove what they see as redundancy, so such a change might not last. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 16:41, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

I think I can only back away from that. Crisco and S-P seem determined to ignore the ambiguity, and S-P has already reverted someone who tried to change to "sacred". Edit war; a pity. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 20:22, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Sacred Pedal Dance. .. what no article? botheration. Hafspajen (talk) 17:02, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/Sacral? Hafspajen (talk) 20:30, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Reversion at Panyembrama, and argument not accepted at Misplaced Pages:Featured picture candidates/Panyembrama. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 20:37, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Well -I am the wrong person to ask - if both are correct,- because they sound just the same to me. Hafspajen (talk) 21:04, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Never mind. It is easy to back away from this. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 21:18, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Well I hope so - I don't care to make Crisco mad, for a minor issue - I like him a lot and we all rely on his generosity and knowledge at the FP project. Hafspajen (talk) 22:28, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Thomas W. Whitaker

On 27 November 2014, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Thomas W. Whitaker, which you recently created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that botanist Thomas W. Whitaker was honored for his work with squashes and pumpkins (pictured) by having a squash variety named after him? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Thomas W. Whitaker. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, live views, daily totals), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:07, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Gerrit Dou

Toward the end of the fourth paragraph in the section "Interpretation" in Gerrit Dou, at Gerrit Dou#Interpretation, there is an in-line citation in square brackets:

• .

Right after this is a sentence beginning "De Jongh...". I'm just wondering whether the "d" in "de Jongh" in the citation should be capitalized. CorinneSD (talk) 17:51, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Those citations are horribly broken (I've tagged them). MOS:NAMECAPS doesn't specify, but Charles de Gaulle uses a capital when starting a sentence "De Gaulle led a government in exile". I think that is a usual style. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 14:54, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

I didn't think the cap at the beginning of the sentence was wrong; I just wondered about the absence of a cap in the citation. CorinneSD (talk) 15:57, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

In styles that I'm used to, the person's name is capitalized in citations and bibliographies in the way that they would capitalize it, so in this case with a lower-case de. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 21:38, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Oh. O.K. Thanks. CorinneSD (talk) 23:43, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Proposal for WP:NCGN#Bangladesh

A convention for naming geographic locations in Bangladesh is proposed. You are invited to discuss. – nafSadh did say 01:18, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Glad to see that a discussion is taking place, but it's not really my area. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 13:01, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Who is Vertmnus

Arr, my computer types weird today. Hafspajen (talk) 13:54, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

A green-grocer? --Hafspajen (talk) 15:21, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Green green

	Green Award
	Salat af rucola, gulerødder, parmesan og solsikkekerner - Danish salad for you. Hafspajen (talk) 13:44, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Thank you! A reminder of how similar Danish is to English, particularly the loan words like parmesan. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 14:54, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, the Danish steal Parmesan fro English, naughty them. Hafspajen (talk) 15:02, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Seeing this photo and reading your caption gave me an idea: that would make a great game for parties: to see which team could make the most interesting portrait with vegetables. CorinneSD (talk) 23:29, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Hafspajen (talk) 23:33, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

"Rucola" is arugula, a delicious Italian salad green. What is "gulerødder"? In the picture it looks like sliced peaches or mango. There's a WP article on Vertumnus. I had never heard of him; now I've got to read the article. I wonder how Emperor Rudolf II liked this depiction of him. CorinneSD (talk) 17:04, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Don't know what he thought, but I love that cut cabbage or lettuce for his forehead. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 18:03, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

I love the painting. I looked closely at his forehead and saw that the vegetable has tiny bumps on it. At first I was thinking it could be the bottom of a bunch of celery, but then I thought celery has no bumps like that. Now I think it might be the bottom of a squash -- a Cucurbita! What do you think? CorinneSD (talk) 01:26, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

I don't know what that vegetable could be. It is rather like a melon, but to me it still looks leafy, not endive, but if leafy, it would have to be a very broad-headed vegetable like a Boston lettuce ... (Enlarging the image is rather alarming, he has the bottom of a turnip sticking out of his throat!) Sminthopsis84 (talk) 13:33, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

I think that this picture should be nominated at Featured Pictures. Sminthopsis, do you want to do it? It is your find. It has an article, it's alright in size, looks good, it is sharp, interesting - good - in all ways. We can help you to nominate - if you get stuck. Hafspajen (talk) 01:33, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Hm, not sure I'm brave enough for FP. Wouldn't we need to list all the plants shown? Perhaps some scholar did that already. Over at the top right are odd things, a longish pale one partly hidden by grapes and some very vague dark shapes (above the Crataegus monogyna with the two cherries). Sminthopsis84 (talk) 13:33, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

They are probably more interested about the composition that the vegetables, but here you go: a flower decoration, corn, onions, kronärtskocka Artichoke, kålblad cabbage foils, cherries, pears, chestnuts, apples, olives, figs, mulberry, grapes, plums, pomegranate, big white radish, some Crategus berry, right, upper corner, endive, sockärtor, Mespilus, commonly called medlar, various pumpkins, wheat stuff. Odd dark shapes are just leafs. What's that stuff they use for his beard? Hafspajen (talk) 15:27, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Wow! Great list! Only a botanist could come up with that list. Re the beard: Mulberries, millet, hops? If this is anything close to a portrait of Emperor Rudolf II, judging from the "bags" under his eyes, either he wasn't getting enough sleep or he needed a face-lift. CorinneSD (talk) 23:35, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

I think - facelift. So, Sminty are you are you not nominate it? Or shall someone more experienced do it like Corinne? Hafspajen (talk) 23:43, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

I'll defer to the experts and spend my time on my to-do list: Cucurbita, gynoecium, Balm of Gilead, whatever else is mentioned on this page that I haven't responded to, watchlist items ... Sminthopsis84 (talk) 13:00, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Well, CorinneSD, that if Sminty doesn't feel like that - maybe you should try - after checking it with Crisco I guess... Hafspajen (talk) 18:04, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

I'd be glad to nominate it. Will User:Crisco 1492 see this without a ping, or do I need to ask him elsewhere? Crisco, did you see my question to you at User talk:CorinneSD#Ki Hajar Dewantara? CorinneSD (talk) 18:57, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

• I'd convert that to JPG if I were you. No, I didn't see the question. Will check. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 19:06, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Eh, Corinne. You sometimes add the ping after you singed the post - and this is why it will not work. It has to be a ping + a recent, fresh signature - otherwise - no ping. Hafspajen (talk) 20:07, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Crisco 1492 - I doubt she knows how to do that. Do you think it worth a try, the greengrocer? Hafspajen (talk) 15:52, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

• K, uploaded here. Compare how they display (JPG, TIF).16:30, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks! I think, by now - the nomination is rather - OK. Sminty - still, want to try? Otherwise I guess Corinne . And if she doesn't like it either ... in sheer desperation I might do that myself, because it is good. Hafspajen (talk) 16:36, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

• ?? Hafspajen (talk) 21:42, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Please go ahead with the nomination, I'm very happy to leave it to experts like yourself. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 13:07, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

CorinneSD - feel free to nominate. But this time you have to go to the WP:FP and add that into the other nominations, put the template title in the row where it say current nominations. Hafspajen (talk) 14:30, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

I will nominate it, but I don't know which image file to use. I was confused by Crisco's comment above about a JPG file and a TIF file. Shall I copy the image file from what I see when I click on the photo of the painting above? Also, I was reading the information on the image file (and saw all that information about the Swedish museum making the photo available). It says there that, if known, the photographer must be mentioned. The photographer is Jens Mohr. Do I need to mention the name of the photographer in the nomination? Who is the "creator" -- the painter or the photographer? CorinneSD (talk) 18:12, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

Use JPG: they are better. File:Porträtt, Rudolf II som Vertumnus. Guiseppe Arcimboldo - Skoklosters slott - 87582.jpg Hafspajen (talk) 18:24, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

I don't know about that Morh guy. The creator is certainly Archimboldo. Hafspajen (talk) 18:26, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

You can mention the vegetables, though. Hafspajen (talk) 18:27, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

I nominated it. Did I do it right? I noticed that the tif version of this image file appeas in quite a few more WP articles and pages than the jpg version, but I guess I can't add those. I had everything ready, but was going back and forth between different pages and inadvertently left the page without saving it so had to start all over. But I think I've got it right now. CorinneSD (talk) 19:30, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

OK, I go now to Misplaced Pages:Featured picture candidates# Current nominations and if it is there I will be happy. If not, I come back and scream. Hafspajen (talk) 19:47, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

WELL DONE!!! It is there alright. And it got a vote too, already. Hafspajen (talk) 19:49, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

Oh. I will do so right now. I thought a picture wouldn't even be nominated if it were not the right size. CorinneSD (talk) 22:06, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

I think it is rather good to have a picture like this nominated. It is playful and fun and it is also good quality. It si also sharp and good quality and has an own article. And it is really a good artwork. What more do we need? Hafspajen (talk) 22:11, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

I thought you just told me it didn't meet requirements. CorinneSD (talk) 22:26, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

Oh, the Archimboldo, I mean. Hafspajen (talk) 22:28, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

Did you see my tiny comment at the Vertumnus nomination? (Just joking.) CorinneSD (talk) 22:28, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

P

Carrot. Gul=yellow rød=red. Also, yellowred-- carrot. Hafspajen (talk) 17:06, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Oh. The Danes call a carrot a yellowred? Interesting. CorinneSD (talk) 17:19, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Oh, I had just assumed that rødder was somehow related to root (blush, wonder what the car in carrot means, or the rot for that matter). Sminthopsis84 (talk) 17:27, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Here's the etymology from the article Carrot:

• The carrot (Daucus carota subsp. sativus; etymology: from Late Latin carōta, from Greek καρωτόν karōton, originally from the Indo-Europeanroot ker- (horn), due to its horn-like shape) is a root vegetable, usually orange in colour, though purple, red, white, and yellow varieties exist. CorinneSD (talk) 17:42, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

What an excellent reminder of the importance of scholarly sources; an incompetent amateur inventing wikipedia might come up with the idea that gule had come to be pronounced car from isolation over the centuries. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 18:03, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Oh, wow. Hafspajen (talk) 18:56, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Oh. Gul- is like "gold". CorinneSD (talk) 01:28, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

ping

I just received a notice, clicked on it, then clicked on "View changes" to see it. It led to a diffs page on Rothorpe's talk page. On the right was added a ping to both myself and Rothorpe, with a comment. But when I looked on Rothorpe's talk page in that section, User talk:Rothorpe#The World Is Not Enough (song), there was no ping or comment. I then looked on both the other editor's talk page and on the article's talk page and found nothing. How could there be a notice with a ping and it not be written somewhere? This editor says that we must discuss an edit on the article's talk page and not on another editor's talk page. I've never heard that. Is that some kind of rule? Rothorpe and I discuss edits all the time. CorinneSD (talk) 22:07, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

This seems to be it. Rapid deletion by Rothorpe. No, I don't think it is a rule, just an opinion. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 22:10, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Oh. Thank you. CorinneSD (talk) 22:16, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Basically nothing, just the size, the species, the color and the habitat. Hafspajen (talk) 16:03, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Different language, perhaps? Sminthopsis84 (talk) 17:57, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Same language!!!Björn (talk) 16:03, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Hard to believe. Taxonomists must be having a lot of sleepless nights. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 19:56, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Olé!!!! Björn (talk) 16:03, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Beetroot 2

I was surprised to see just now that you had not offered an opinion in the on-going discussion at Beetroot#Requested move. I also had wondered why the article was called "Beetroot". I had never even heard that word before. We always call the vegetable "beet", plural "beets". Of course, we were usually referring to the round, dark red root, but now I know that many people cook and eat both the root and the leaves, often together. But I can understand the logic of those who oppose the move. I just wonder what you thought. CorinneSD (talk) 23:24, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Sorry. But it is the root, not the Beet...Hafspajen (talk) 04:38, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Sigh, I an afraid I joined the club who thinks WP:FLORA Is better. Hafspajen (talk) 04:42, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Yay! Oh frabjous day! WP:FLORA is great! Sminthopsis84 (talk) 13:24, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Some common namer will now bite my head off for this. Ack ja, livet är svårt. Hafspajen (talk) 04:48, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

I thought about replying yesterday when the discussion was much shorter. Have done so now. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 13:24, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

I read your comment, but, not being a botanist, I'd like to understand your comment better. Is the beet that is used picked in sandwiches in Australia the same as the round, dark red beet root that we use in the U.S. and that is prepared into pickled beets, or is it a different root entirely? (P.S., you never replied to my comment a few sections above this about beets in Australia.) And, you said beets grown in a garden are called "silver beet". (a) Is that because they look silver? and (b) What are those used for? CorinneSD (talk) 17:23, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Yes, it's the same as pickled beets in the U.S. (but cut differently, which fits better in sandwiches). Pickled beetroot sandwiches is good in a sandwich, if it doesn't slide out as the little circles do. Oops, I missed out the link for Silver beet, which I've now added. I don't know what Australian gardeners call those red and yellow cultivars of the leaf vegetable, if they grow them. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 17:30, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

2000 or 4000

Olive tree of Vouves? Hafspajen (talk) 23:49, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

I just made a few minor edits to the article to improve the wording. I had never heard of this tree, and I found the article interesting. I was surprised that there was no image of the tree! I have a question: the type of olive tree was a red wiki-link. I put it into italics simple because it sounded like a Greek word. I'm wondering (a) whether there should be a link there at all, and (b) whether the word should be in italics. CorinneSD (talk) 00:16, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Tried to find picture, none. Only thing is a pic showing some other olive trees in a valley in this area .. I don't know if we should use that ...? Hafspajen (talk) 02:25, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

There is a picture of it at the citation I just added to List_of_olive_cultivars, top of page 664. It's a book published by Wiley, don't suppose that makes it accessible to wiki projects, but perhaps it could be pointed to. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 14:50, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Maybe there's a picture of that old olive tree of Vouves on the Greek Misplaced Pages (is there a Greek Misplaced Pages?), and, if not, perhaps a note could be added to the Greek WP page for Vouves asking about a photo. CorinneSD (talk) 17:41, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

No, no photo there. Yeah, we need a Greek to go there. Hafspajen (talk) 17:53, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

No page there for the place either, just a red link for Άνω Βούβες so far. . Sminthopsis84 (talk) 20:22, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Hm, weird. Don't know any Greek editors, though. Hafspajen (talk) 20:30, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

@Cplakidas: Can you help? We're looking for a photo of a tree in Greece. Read this section. CorinneSD (talk) 02:55, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Hello! I've looked around on the web, but couldn't find anything with an appropriate license. I've emailed a couple of Cretan friends, perhaps they can find something, or take the photo themselves. In the meantime, I've added a few things to the article. Cheers to all, Constantine ✍ 10:51, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Sminthopsis84 (talk) 12:54, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Greek connections arrived! Hafspajen (talk) 14:31, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, Constantine. I saw the photo of the tree in the Flickr link. It's magnificent. Then I looked at all the other photos of Greece (or was that Crete?). So beautiful! CorinneSD (talk) 17:05, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Just crazy, look at these ... Hafspajen (talk) 18:01, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Very nice. Cypress trees can get old, too. Do you have any photos of very old cypress trees, to compare them? CorinneSD (talk) 18:15, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

• Should't we have a template åå, gå och dränk dig .... File:Borovikovskiy PtDerzhavnoy.jpg? Hafspajen (talk) 22:06, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Glad she isn't drowning the dog. Are those nasturtiums? Sminthopsis84 (talk) 13:19, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

What's aa, ga och drank dig? What a lovely painting! What's that yellow fruit, above right? At first glance I thought it was a flower, but upon closer inspection I saw that it was a fruit. I had never seen fruit shaped like that. What is it? CorinneSD (talk) 22:53, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

File:James Tissot - Triumph Of The Will, The Challenge.jpg

• Hm, that's Buddhas hand. Hafspajen (talk) 23:49, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Not my talk page. Your talk page. No, it's not your talk page. It's Sminths' talk page. Here. Sorry. I'm afraid the comments, out of context, might be misunderstood. CorinneSD (talk) 23:46, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

And what's that picture (painting)? Who is that on the ground? CorinneSD (talk) 23:47, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

• It is called the Triumph Of The Will: The Challenge. Hafspajen (talk) 23:49, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

(EC) No...I meant "combination of Hafs' incomplete knowledge of English", etc. Right above this. CorinneSD (talk) 23:53, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Not my talk page. Your talk page. No, it's not your talk page. It's Sminths' talk page. Here. Sorry. I'm afraid the comments, out of context, might be misunderstood. CorinneSD (talk) 23:46, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

And what's that picture (painting)? Who is that on the ground? CorinneSD (talk) 23:47, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

The woman in armor have to be the depiction of the Will... who probably defeated that woman on the floor. The woman on the floor is kinda half human and half animal - probably illustrating the less valuable sides of the human nature - or so. Hafspajen (talk) 00:06, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

Or the Will is defending herself from the snakes the snakes and already defeated the animal-woman- .. ? Hafspajen (talk) 00:09, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

As far as I can see online, nobody knows what the other paintings in the unfinished series would have shown. Perhaps Will hasn't made an appearance yet, but will avenge this gruesome challenge eventually. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 13:32, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

Well, it wasn't that fun maybe, after all. Hafspajen (talk) 14:26, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

A beer for you!

There is much truth in typos, bear, beer, ... Sminthopsis84 (talk) 15:03, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Oenothera rubricaulis

Sminty, why on earth we have no article on Red-stalked evening primrose, Oenothera rubricaulis? , , , , 100704hm a bit disgussant Hafspajen (talk) 14:43, 7 December 2014 (UTC) Hm, is it a Scandinavian flower? Hafspajen (talk) 14:49, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

According to the latest list, it is a synonym of Oenothera biennis, and I've added that here. The "certainty" rating is 2 out of 3, not absolute; perhaps they'll change their mind at some point. In the meantime, there is now a synonym list at Oenothera biennis with that citation that could be updated if needed. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 14:55, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

• Ah, that was it. Thought I recognized this plant. Hafspajen (talk) 14:59, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

Sminthopsis, are you still here? What do you think about this old edit? Hafspajen (talk) 23:36, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

I'm more-or-less here, though my computer is having trouble. That's not a good IP; looking at their latest edit, do you think File:St Bernard with barrel alt.jpg is really a Saint Bernard? Sminthopsis84 (talk) 00:14, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

You mean it is not a B. dog? Or it has short to hair? Some varieties of B dog got short hairs. File:Saint Bernardhund.JPG Hafspajen (talk) 00:22, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

I thought its face didn't look quite right for a St B.; the stop seems to be quite gradual. Perhaps a cross-breed. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 13:44, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

And what do you think about THIS edit? Hafspajen (talk) 03:31, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Are you having trouble reverting spam? Sminthopsis84 (talk) 13:47, 8 December 2014 (UTC), thanks. Hafspajen (talk) 16:25, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

So, I made an article for Corinne, and now I will make one for myself File:10 Inmaculada Concepción (National Gallery de Londres, c. 1618).jpg about this one. Hafspajen (talk) 18:21, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

If I can get rid of that mark. Hafspajen (talk) 20:03, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Do you adjust pictures, say with GIMP? I wondered about the effect of the camera flash in the Ribes image above with the lizard and the bird nest. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 16:49, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Citron

I just made a few copy-edits to the article on Citron. There were a lot of little errors in syntax.

• The last paragraph in Citron#Nomenclature was really bad. I wonder if you would mind checking that I got it right.

Removed some of that, it really needs added material, but the taxonomy of citrus is very difficult. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 15:49, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

• Also, when it got to the scientific parts of the article, Citron#Description and variation, I decided to stop and let you review the rest.

I might get to that later, but for now I've made so many changes on the article that someone might object, so better to wait for a while. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 15:49, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

• Finally, I wonder if you would read the section Citron#Perfumery. It seems to me to read like a brochure for each company's perfume(s). I guess the inclusion of a section on Perfumery makes sense, but I wonder if there isn't perhaps too much information there. CorinneSD (talk) 00:29, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Perfumery dealt with. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 15:49, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

This is what we are talking about when we say = Misplaced Pages is not an image repository. Hafspajen (talk) 02:56, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Except it does seem to be an image repository! Tagged it, but suspect that there could be resistance to removing images. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 14:43, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Like I told Corine, some editors like to remove galleries and cry - Misplaced Pages IS NOT AN IMAGE REPOSITORY!! - and so, even where they are perfectly all right. Like a day ago at this article. Hafspajen (talk) 21:16, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Are you able to access this file? There are a lot in this commons category that look broken to me when I click on the thumbnail. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 14:59, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Yes, they are accessible. I mean it works for me. Hafspajen (talk) 17:47, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for checking, it works now for me too; must have been an intermittent problem. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 23:02, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

That's an interesting plant. What kind of fruit is that? I saw "Ab plant" and did a search for an article and found nothing. Is there an article about that plant? CorinneSD (talk) 19:19, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

• Redcurrants or the false strawberry? Hafspajen (talk) 20:01, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

The person who took those photos has the initials AB, and seems to use that and a number in the file names. Arbutus andrachne#In literature is a strange section that looks like a quote within a quote but no credit for the inner quote. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 23:02, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

I had never heard of that tree or fruit before. That section looks very strange. I wonder if it is really punctuated correctly. CorinneSD (talk) 03:43, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Yesterday I'd failed to find the source, but trying again today gave success. I'd be glad if you'd look at how I've formatted it, whether (sic) is warranted because the genus name was printed with a lower-case letter (species epithets like Andrachne were often capitalized until recently, so I don't think that is a problem), whether that is a reasonable way to list the editor's footnote, etc. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 14:28, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

I guess you're asking me. I'll try, in a few minutes. I see another editor has been making a number of edits. You'll have to judge those, but I wondered about this wording in the latest, or almost the latest, edit:

• ...that are common by all varieties of citron.

That sounds a little like the dialect that would produce, "How's by you?" CorinneSD (talk) 21:16, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Yes, Scottish or German, and no doubt other languages as well. Now that Citron has a "see also" at the top, I think I'll leave it alone. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 21:38, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

AAaa, what do you think about this edit? Hafspajen (talk) 22:41, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

.

.Very nice blues sky yes. City Hall of Palma de Mallorca, Spain, do you like it? Hafspajen (talk) 23:27, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

what do you think about my new article? Northeaster (painting). Was thinking of nominating it maybe some day. Hafspajen (talk) 23:30, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Nice! I think footnote 3 needs a source as a quote, or something. As it stands it could be called WP:OR. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 13:18, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Tell me how to do it. Hafspajen (talk) 13:19, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

See what you think of what I did. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 13:44, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Sminty, it is called The Fog Warning, http://www.winslowhomer.org/the-fog-warning.jsp. Hafspajen (talk) 13:25, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Oh good. I only found the film (now with hatnote). Sminthopsis84 (talk) 13:33, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

'orry. Hafspajen (talk) 13:34, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

No 'pology needed, it's a normal part of weaving a new page into the fabric. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 13:44, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

What do you think of this edit? The reason I'm asking is because I know that when it comes to citrus fruit, the word "sections" has a specific meaning. If you think the change in wording is all right, the grammar needs fixing. CorinneSD (talk) 22:18, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

I agree that the original was better, but needed a grammar fix. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 22:21, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I now see that it did. Both the before and after were ungrammatical. I prefer the original, with the grammar fixed, also. CorinneSD (talk) 23:44, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

DYK for Julia Wilmotte Henshaw

On 9 December 2014, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Julia Wilmotte Henshaw, which you recently created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that Canadian botanist, combat ambulance driver, and political activist Julia Wilmotte Henshaw (pictured) urged women voters to support conscription, yet was also anti-suffrage? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Julia Wilmotte Henshaw. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, live views, daily totals), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Graeme Bartlett (talk) 13:51, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Bio Star award

		The Bio-star
		For EXCEPTIONAL work in the areas of botany, wiki teamwork, and wiki friendship. HalfGig talk 00:28, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Aw shucks, HalfGig. The teamwork that I've seen lately has been really good, only because, I think, the attacks from nearly a year ago that have mercifully ceased. It's amazing. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 13:27, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

A Kremna rezina for you!

Kremna rezina is a small cake designed to serve one person. They are often served with sugar sprinkled on top Hafspajen (talk) 14:49, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Gosh, thanks! Here's a little decoration for the top of it. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 22:42, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

• Enlarged other detail. Hafspajen (talk) 23:15, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

I appreciate you thanking!

I would like to you to expand and copy edit the article citrus taxonomy that I have created, I like to see the complex issues discussed and resolved. I noted your writing on your user page that you are professional in this. I have brought on the table a lot of references and links of studies in this matter. Every article has more than the information I was able to extract from them, and also a lot of contradictions! Here is were professionalism is needed. Good luck! Riversid (talk) 15:58, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, I doubt that I have the energy required to deal with citrus taxonomy. You could try asking at WT:PLANTS if there is anyone keen to help out, but I happen to know that another dedicated professional botanist gave up on wikipedia a couple of years ago, and one of the things that particularly frustrated him was trying to deal with that difficult group in the face of the determined other editors who were getting their information from outdated sources but kept insisting that it was correct. It was a nightmare then, and unfortunately it still is. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 16:04, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Ah, Riversid, nice to catch you here. Do you know that I posted at the article talkpage twice, and you never responded? It is considered rather rude too ignore other editors agf post... Hafspajen (talk) 16:19, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

I don't see you anywhere, I'm not sure to what you are referring to. Riversid (talk) 16:25, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

At Buddhas hand. Hafspajen (talk) 16:30, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Wisteria

What sort is this - it has long long long flowers. Hafspajen (talk) 17:48, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

They have amazing gardeners at the Biltmore Estate: willing to combat the fearsome weed Wisteria sinensis with the short racemes, and propagate the Wisteria floribunda as an ornamental. That's what is known as true grit in the gardening trade. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 19:53, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Is the wisteria in the picture at the left the Wisteria sinensis? Does that mean you don't like it? I like both types. CorinneSD (talk) 20:08, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

It can be a bit panic-inducing to have to push your way through a thicket of thorny hawthorn and wisteria when an angry humming bird is trying to tell you to get away from its nest and there are cottonmouths nearby. Humming birds seem meaner than mosquitoes somehow, under those conditions. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 20:30, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

I like them too. But I want to know about the long one. Hafspajen (talk) 20:10, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

The long one is often said to be quite a lot more difficult, but I wonder if it just takes a long time to get a plant that flowers reliably. Someone I know trained a young plant for years hoping it would flower, but then it died. There are hybrids between the two. I don't think I've ever seen a white one that I thought was as beautiful as the darker colours. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 20:30, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

I have noticed one in a house near by I live, but never went in to ask about it. We Swedes don't socialize much. Hafspajen (talk) 20:41, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

You don't? How strange, but true; when I look in Commons for Sweden + Party all the pictures are about politics. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 21:27, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

That's all we do. Hafspajen (talk) 22:08, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Hafs, didn't you get the ping on my talk page at User talk:CorinneSD#Another Swedish speaker? CorinneSD (talk) 03:27, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

well, -- I did. Hafspajen (talk) 13:40, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

And considering what we CorinneSD - were talking about, I better stay away. Hafspajen (talk) 17:29, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

"Good Morning"Sminthopsis84:
Thanks for all of your contributions to improve Misplaced Pages!
13 December is the day when Swedes perplex the rest of the world by showing up way too early in the morning dressed in white tunics, candles in their hair, singing and bringing saffron buns and breakfast in bed to nice people. Hope you have a bright day! Hafspajen (talk) 09:23, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

A bright day to you too! We had one here yesterday, but today is dull. P.S.: I looked up a recipe online for Lussebullar and put it through Google Translate; it turned "2 påsar saffran à 1/2 g, 2 dl socker" into "2 bags of saffron à 1.2 g, 2 cups sugar" ... that amount of saffron could break the bank, and I'd bet that the yeast would be killed by all the sugar. That might be why the real Lussebullar are only available in Scandinavia. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 14:38, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

Weather:Stormy. Hafspajen (talk) 15:03, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

You forgot the raisins, the milk and the cottage cheese. Hafspajen (talk) 17:29, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

I found a recipe that doesn't have kvarg, because after seeing versions with majonnäs and choklad and vanilj, I thought the plain one was probably the original. It just has one raisin in each, on the top. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 18:45, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

What??? majonnäs and choklad and vanilj, NO! Heresy. NO NO NO: just use a little kvarg. Only just to make it softer. It wont give any taste at all. Hafspajen (talk) 19:03, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

Yes, the heresy part I could guess. I think I will try making these next week. Your explanation is necessary, I had assumed that the kvarg would be in the middle as a lump, like the pastry sometimes called cheese danish. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 20:43, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

What's kvarg? CorinneSD (talk) 20:49, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

Quark (dairy product). Sminthopsis84 (talk) 20:57, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

Thank you. I just looked at the article on Quark. I had never heard the term "quark" used to describe a type of cheese. You learn something every day. CorinneSD (talk) 22:03, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

It's Quark (dairy product) - CorinneSD ... Hafspajen (talk) 09:34, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

I made some buns. They turned out very well and were popular. One friend in particular was very impressed and plans to make more. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 15:04, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

Is anybody home. I would need backup. Snow in Western Art will soon go live and it is not perfect. Hafspajen (talk) 20:12, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

Is it in a sandbox somewhere? Sminthopsis84 (talk) 20:15, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

Several sandboxes were, three actually. Can you explain the Neolitic thing? Suddenly I realized that it is not comon at all, that was wrong of me. Hafspajen (talk) 22:53, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

OK; got that. Hafspajen (talk) 23:24, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

That first sentence looks good now. (Off for Monday break.) Sminthopsis84 (talk) 01:48, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Hafspajen Hafs, yesterday when I read your comment just above:

"Is anybody home. I would need backup. Snow in Western Art will soon go live and it is not perfect. Hafspajen (talk) 20:12, 14 December 2014 (UTC)"

I thought you were asking Sminth or me to look at the article and correct any errors we found. (I thought you were including me in your question, "Is anybody home?", since you knew I'd been watching this page.) It also sounded like there was some urgency: "Snow in Western Art will soon go live and it is not perfect," so I got started right away. I thought you had finished working on it (at least for the time being). I had no idea you were still working on it. When you asked me to wait until you were finished, I stopped right away. Now I see you have asked Sca to go over the article. Does that mean you don't like the way I copyedit? CorinneSD (talk) 23:41, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

• CorinneSD, now. I do like it, of course. I was slightly stressed about the fact that the other guy accused me by copyvio, me using his article - that happened afterwards I posted this. It was very urgent to remove it and find references. About Sca .... well, it is his article. It was his idea, he chosed the pictures, ... and .. made me do it , well, sort of. I wanted too, actually because it was interesting. But now it was his turn to get a bit engaged on this article really. I tried to do everything you asked me, or have I missed anything? Hafspajen (talk) 23:55, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

CorinneSD ... I like your edits!!! Hafspajen (talk) 00:35, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

I'm glad to hear it. I don't know if you missed anything. Last night you told me on my talk page to stop editing and to wait until you told me you were finished. So I've been waiting. I guess you want me to read the article now. CorinneSD (talk) 01:11, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

P.S. I didn't know it was Sca's article until you just told me. CorinneSD (talk) 01:13, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Sure, it is now corrected. Hafspajen (talk) 01:23, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Hafs Could you please read the talk page of Sapsaree? CorinneSD (talk) 00:27, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

What bears breches. English name for Acanthus? --Hafspajen (talk) 04:32, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Millet

Do you have Foxtail millet on your watchlist? Can you review the latest edits? CorinneSD (talk) 17:51, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

I don't know whether navane akki is that species or not because this amazing site doesn't cover Kannada. Since the languages weren't in alphabetic sequence anyway, I didn't see a reason to revert. The taxonomy is too varied to be able to add good citations for it; some sources consider foxtail millet to be a subspecies, others a cultivar group, and some a variety. There are weeds as well as the crop that are called that, but sorting them out would require an expert. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 18:45, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I was reading the setaria article and made one copy-edit. I saw that foxtail millet and one other species before that (forget now) are capitalized. Are they supposed to be capitalized? CorinneSD (talk) 20:46, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

I don't know where to look. Did you mean the common names? There is a contentious decision to downcase those that I disagree with. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 21:03, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

It's Giant Foxtail and Foxtail Millet, both in the third paragraph of the lead in Setaria viridis. Elsewhere, even in this article, "foxtail millet" is lower-case. I don't care either way; I just like things to be correct and consistent. CorinneSD (talk) 21:48, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

Oh yes, I feel the same way. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 22:13, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

• Oh yes, I feel the same way too. Hafspajen (talk) 23:11, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

But nobody is going to tell me which is correct at Setaria viridis?

Did you see the animated thank you at User talk:Bladesmulti#Auto-archive? CorinneSD (talk) 23:34, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

Yeah. Doesn't bring back good memories. I gave one once to Fylbec. On the Simple Wiki - before she banned me from her talk. Hafspajen (talk) 23:54, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

• Here is the category on commons to chose from. Hafspajen (talk) 00:01, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
• What do you think about these edits? Post-Impressionism is written with big letters. Hafspajen (talk) 00:37, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

CorinneSD ? Hafspajen (talk) 00:38, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

Sorry that the movicon brought back bad memories. Thanks for the link, but now I don't want to use them. Regarding the edits to that article, I think they're all right. Awien's edits are definitely an improvement over what was there. If you want me to go back a little further, I will. Awien fixed a link to the article on Post-Impressionism. In the article title, both "Post" and "Impressionism" are capitalized, so Awien got that right. But I don't think it was necessary. I think it would have led to the article anyway even if written in lower case. (But Awien neglected to put the hyphen between "Post" and "Impressionism". I didn't try the link now. Does it work? CorinneSD (talk) 05:09, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

Oh, don't worry, just use them. She doesn't have a monopol on them. Hafspajen (talk) 09:35, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

Rather creepy animal, no? Relatives are worst... Hafspajen (talk) 20:35, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

Brahmanbaria situation

As Geographic.location is not only interested to discuss, wouldn't stop doing whatever they likes and even removing TALK page contents -- it is apparent that they should be reported. As you observed the whole thing, can you file a report? – nafSadh did say 21:45, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Another user has stepped in, so that helps a lot (though the warning is not for the behaviour that I'd most want to see stop). We now have the situation that some mention of those abbreviations with citations has disappeared, and I think that eventually it should go back, but not until things settle down. I think the next step is to wait and see what happens next. P.S.: I can't help wondering if this could be the same person who was repeatedly moving Kulaura Upazila from Maulvibazar District to Sylhet District. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 22:19, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

I noticed. A lot happened while I was not watching in last couple of hours. Orduin fought well but he is a victim. :( Though he appears to be a new login, from his editing quality it looks like he has some experience.

I see Geographic.location and his obvious (so vividly obvious!) sock Wikigeo.int. This guy is tremendous! He copied my signature for illegitimately warning me. Then when Wikigeo.int started to talk, he is using Orduin's signature! In the sock investigation, Armanaziz is reported. At first sight of B-Baria's history, it might seem he is the master; but from the Armanaziz I know (not personally, in Wikiproject Bangladesh) I would not accuse him of such blatant disruptive behavior. Thank you, and thanks to @Orduin:, @Vanjagenije:, @De728631: for stepping in. – nafSadh did say 01:54, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Holy ****. This I really struck me. It is Armaanaziz who is reported. He copied whole userpage from Armanaziz -- whom I know. – nafSadh did say 02:01, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Be careful: it is not Armanaziz who is suspected to be a sockpuppet, but Armaanaziz, those are different (one "a" more in "Armaanaziz"). I believe there might be even more accounts of this same person, so be sure to report them to Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Geographic.location if you suspect. Vanjagenije (talk) 02:01, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Wolfdog

I have no idea what was going on with User:Wikigeo.int's page. I don't even believe I've ever even communicated with that user. I had to look back in their history to see what you were referring to and it seemed to be related to User:Orduin: another user name I don't recognize. It certainly was information from my own talk page. Did any of that get figured out? Wolfdog (talk) 23:08, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

The user copied all the information on his page from other user-pages. He is currently vandalizing pages allot. I am trying to keep the pages the way they are until he gets blocked, but it has been difficult. -- Orduin 23:10, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks @Wolfdog:for your reply. I thought it might be the case that you had no idea this was going on. I've just filed a request for a sock investigation, but there is some strange and determined behaviour going on. I don't think you need to be involved unless your page is attacked, which I think it hasn't been. (The user pages of the two signons also look fake to me.) Sminthopsis84 (talk) 23:14, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

@Orduin: I think you should step aside for your own protection. If these people are blocked, everything they have done can be reverted, but if you try to fight them you will be blocked. Sorry, but that's the way wikipedia is. I urge you to step aside. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 23:14, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

I'm just going to make sure others who come across this mess know what is going on. I've given up. I might also request page protection for the pages to ensure that other sockpuppets do not continue this one's work. -- Orduin 23:17, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

The trouble with page protection is that it can be enacted on a bad version of a page ... and they might just move to making messes on different pages. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 23:22, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Happy to see this. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 03:55, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Talkback

Vanjagenije (talk) 23:25, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Talkback

Vanjagenije (talk) 23:31, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

A cup of tea for you!

For helping with the Brahmanbaria situation. – nafSadh did say 03:39, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Tea is a good idea. It might take quite a few cups on separate tea breaks to rebuild the necessary fortitude to go back and see what sort of condition the Brahmanbaria articles are in ... in a couple of days time, assuming that no more bizarre vandalism occurs in the meantime. In the meantime we could ponder that age-old question: is it refreshing to be reminded of how very strangely people can behave? Sminthopsis84 (talk) 04:15, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Yep. In last couple of days I watched two very bizarre character. One is this guy with Brahmanbaria; (he probably played with Paltan too -- thank God! that triggered us to put forward a BDPLACE standard). Another one is on an AfD.

Anyway, you were really confused with the Upazilas articles. I guess BDPLACE might help you there too. With a lot of experienced users taking break and with many enthusiastic new editors in Wikiproject Bangladesh, a well versed community standard is much needed. I am planning to help set up those and will always appreciate your feedback. – nafSadh did say 04:39, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Something to watch out for: upazila articles with nonsense demographics sections copied from random places. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 13:31, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

I just don't understand...

I just don't understand why two intelligent people who share similar interests can become so upset with each other in such a short time. CorinneSD (talk) 23:50, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

Well, I can MAYBE explain it. People actually don't like to get help. Especially men. They think they look week. So now when the magpie is already a FP and the article is fine, I an not needed anymore. You explained yourself very well on your own talk - Why would you do such a thing you would revert her/him and re-insert images that s/he had removed, several times, it seems. That's guaranteed to upset Hafs. Well,it did - and Freud would have said - because you probably knew it will, deep inside. It was good relying on me - but when things are fine, nodody wants to admit any more that it was someone else who helped you. Hafspajen (talk) 00:00, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

Hafs, I'm so sorry you are going through this. I hate to see you upset. Just now, upon reading your comment, I thought of another strategy you could use when things start to deteriorate in the process of editing an article. I know you care a lot about articles and especially images and that you don't like to leave things in bad shape, but you might consider just simply stopping editing if someone is reverting and reverting again, or beginning to be argumentative or disrespectful -- stopping without saying anything -- that is, refusing to interact. It will be the other editor's loss. You can always keep it in mind and return to it in a few weeks or months. There can be no argument or hurtful words if one of a pair of editors withdraws from participating. It's just a thought.

Another thing you could do -- and maybe you did it but I didn't see it -- is just to say, "I've been trying my best to do X, but you keep undoing my work, and I don't understand why," and wait for a reply (without doing any more editing until you get a reply). CorinneSD (talk) 00:31, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

• CorinneSD what do you call this? If you go on interacting with Sca as I notice you do, you will notice he is not that easy always to do have to do with. Contrary that he is trying to say now, I had lots and lots of patience with him, even if he was rather harsh with me sometimes, and this is not the first time he does this kind of trick on me, with galleries, and pictures, both in this article and others simply restoring his own version causing a lot of white space. Here this was my version - and this is his, and his version makes a big gap in the article. He put that back several times. Already there he reverted to things as he wanted them to. I never made anything abut that because I thought better of it, but he does this kind of things. Once he works with an article it should be his version. Not the first time, as I said, that is why I was pointing out WP:OWN. If I would have return, return to it in a few weeks or months to fix the gap in the Koller article, he would revert me again. And nobody does things like this to me, except he. When we work on articles with others (not him) we all respect each others edits and discuss changes. Hafspajen (talk) 07:04, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

Categorizing featured pictures of organisms based on location

Just invite you to look into c:Commons_talk:Featured_picture_candidates#Categorizing_Feature_Pictures. Jee 18:04, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

Terschelling

I've been reading the article on Terschelling, and I was surprised to learn that cranberries grow there. See Terschelling#Cranberries. I just wonder about something. The first sentence in the second paragraph in that section is:

• The cranberries, finding the environment favourable, established themselves on the island.

Is it just me, or does that sentence sound like it is personifying cranberries? Or is that standard language for botanists? CorinneSD (talk) 22:02, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

Hmm, it sounds a little old-fashioned to me, but quite familiar language for botanical discussion of wild plants. It's not really clear from the article whether the cranberries grew by themselves initially, but I think they did. I found a statement elsewhere "The rambler, who thought he had found a barrel of wine, was disappointed and threw the berries out in the dunes of the island." So, I think it is fair to say that they established themselves. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 01:49, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

O.K. CorinneSD (talk) 21:44, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

Beauty contest

• Maybe some, but not all
• 'Mrs Mahler Mem Fred Tompkins'
• 'Queen Sirikhit Diamond Crown'
• 'Hawaiian Wedding Song Virgin'
• 'Chia-lin'
• 
• 'Barbara Belle'
• Beaumesnil 'Parme'
• 'Chocolate Drop' x 'Pao de Acucar'
• 'Empress Frederick'
  × Cattleya mossiae
• 'Hermine'
• 'Little Angel'
• 'Marjorie Hausermann York'
• 'Miva Breeze Alize'
• 'Nobile's carnival'
• Pernell George Barnett 'Yankee Clipper'
• 'Portia'

How many of these should we use in a gallery for Orchid? Or rather -shall we - or - shall not. My thought was using it in the section Uses - since they are cultivars made for decorative purposes. See also CorinneSD 's talk. Hafspajen (talk) 19:47, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

A few of these would be nice, I think. But what about other decorative orchids such as Phalaenopsis and Dendrobium? A couple of thoughts: I don't find Mrs Mahler Mem Fred very decorative. Some of the white ones are under-exposed, but that would be appropriate in the evening, but looking around in commons I don't see any images of someone wearing orchids. (It's nice to deal with virtual Cattleya rather than the real thing; some relatives of mine grow them, and the scent gives me a migraine.) Sminthopsis84 (talk) 21:26, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

New I was missing something. I am rather tired now, so I won't be able to do much right now, but yes, Phalaenopsis and Dendrobium too. Hafspajen (talk) 22:16, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Sleep well. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 12:53, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

Best wishes for a happy holiday season

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Ah, best wishes for a happy holiday season ...II

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Rose

Wonder what rose could this be. Gloire de Dijon? Was painted in 1881. In those times there were not too many yellow roses on the market. Hafspajen (talk) 01:56, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

Well, I don't think it looks like 'Gloire de Dijon', which has a tea-rose look. It could be a perfect match for some of David Austen's roses, but they, of course, didn't exist then. Rosa 'Chromatella' = 'Cloth of Gold' is another tea-noisette that has the right look and was introduced in 1843, but there must be quite a few possibilities. I think you are right that it would be a named rose and not an unnamed seedling that an artist would paint. I bet Simon Saint-Jean, his teacher's teacher and known for being criticized by Baudelaire for using too much yellow (), would have painted the same plant. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 13:35, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

Well, I have grown Gloire de Dijon - and it was pretty much like that pic ... sort of crowded -pretty full and looking a lot like the picture ... Hafspajen (talk) 15:45, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

"Quartered", I see. I looked at Commons and at Phillips & Rix which show it without that shape, and P&R say "A Noisette, though closer in appearance to a Tea". That might be an example of something that I've seen with 'Gloire des Mousseux' that people are growing slightly different-looking roses under the same name, perhaps because over time small genetic changes have crept into certain lineages. The leaves in the image could be tea-rose-like, so that would fit. I don't know what those red buds on the right are, or the upside-down rose leaf on the right that looks completely different from the others. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 16:35, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

Yes, "Quartered" was it. I am aware of that problem. I think we have several roses that are marketed under the same name but actually are different, even here is difference between let's say Denmark and Sweden or Germany ...or France. A bit bothersome. Hafspajen (talk) 03:49, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

A wild guess about the red buds ... thinking about the grayish leaves - Maiden's Blush? They do have rosy-red buds to start with. That's one rose you should try. Hafspajen (talk) 03:52, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

What the heck ... that goes to a moth. Hafspajen (talk) 03:53, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Wait, that was wrong - Maiden was yellow buds. I was thinking of Mme Plantier, white but have rosy-red buds to start with. Hafspajen (talk) 03:59, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

I don't know what R. alba leaves look like on the back (the only rose leaf I can recall that looked like that was made of plastic, so that's no help). Sminthopsis84 (talk) 14:48, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

I think they look grayish. Hafspajen (talk) 15:45, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

You both know I don't know much about flowers. I assume you've been discussing the yellow roses in the painting. Sminth mentioned leaves that are a different color from the other leaves. I clicked on the picture to look at them more closely, and something occurred to me. Is it possible that the large yellow rose and the two smaller roses are not the same type of rose? They look a little different. That would explain two types of leaves. CorinneSD (talk) 16:27, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

He certainly used mixed bunches a lot, but in this case I think the yellow roses are all the same type. Those that eventually show the "quartered" look in the middle (where the central petals are shorter and fold around one another to make sort-of divisions, often looking like 4 lines radiating from the centre) often look in earlier stages as if they might produce the high-centered form of a "modern" rose instead. For example, this gallery shows a "normal modern" flower starting to open that later opens to have the denser petals in the middle. I think there might be three different types in that bunch, the yellow roses, the little red ones with the delicate bracts, and that other leaf in the right foreground. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 16:43, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

So you think the three pinkish-gray leaves in the right foreground are from a different rose? Thanks for the link to the images of the pink rose opening. That's amazing -- the second image shows the rose just beginning to open and it looks like a regular (modern) rose; the later ones show that it is the crinkly kind. I had never seen that kind of rose before. To me, it looks like a small peony. I'm not sure I like it. It looks like a rose on growth hormones although it's probably beautiful when you see it. CorinneSD (talk) 16:52, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Yes, aren't we confusing, three leaflets=one leaf. That rose is quite rare because it doesn't grow very easily. The flower isn't particularly large, which probably saves it from looking totally unnatural. It can look very beautiful. It is cleverly named after Château de Malmaison to appeal to those who love rose history, and it is a rather dramatic achievement in rose breeding by being very different from roses that came before. I like it, but probably because it looks better in real life against the darkness of its leaves (and without those waterdrops). Sminthopsis84 (talk) 16:59, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Hmm, from looking at the 'Souvenir de la Malmaison' gallery, the thought comes up that one of its offspring, 'Gloire de Dijon', as Hafs said, is very much a candidate for the identity of that yellow rose. Hafs, I think you nailed it the first time. The confusion between different sources could well be because some people look at younger flowers, and some at older ones, and there might not even be much genetic divergence between different lineages. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 17:10, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Oh. I didn't realize that the three little leaves were called leaflets and that together they constitute one leaf. Interesting. I glanced at the article on the Château de Malmaison. If the flower has some connection to the chateau, perhaps a picture of the flower could be added to that article. CorinneSD (talk) 17:27, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

I'm not sure that we should put a picture of the rose on the page about the Château. It was named quite a bit later, as an homage to the Empress; I don't think we have quite a good enough photo of it yet; if we started putting rose pictures on each of the pages for people etc. after whom they are named, there would be a lot of them, and it could become a way for rose breeders to get themselves publicity (name a rose after every person who has a page in wikipedia). Sminthopsis84 (talk) 15:20, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Well, it wasn't that difficult maybe - they were very few Yellow Roses before ... Hafspajen (talk) 17:29, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Hafs, did you mean to provide a link to a Dolly Parton song? CorinneSD (talk) 17:30, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Sigh, moths and Dolly Parton.. no, I didn't. Actually I think it should be an article about them. At least on the Old roses, Marechal Niel, Rëve de l'Or, Gloire de Dijon... If not individual articles at least something of th early yellows. Untill 1700th century or so there was no yellow roses to talk about. Hafspajen (talk) 17:36, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

I was told off for making stubs about rose cultivars, so I stopped. Someone objects to stubs. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 19:17, 27 December 2014 (UTC) Who told you off? That wasn't nice. Is there a rule against stubs on WP? CorinneSD (talk) 00:15, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Who was that ? NO, there are NO rules against stubs on WP, of course not. Let's make stubbs on roses NOW. Hafspajen (talk) 00:35, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

I think the fact that there were no yellow roses before the 1700s makes yellow roses unique among roses, so an article is appropriate. CorinneSD (talk) 00:41, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Absolutely. 1824 came Park's yellow scented from China to Europe. And before that Rosa foetida come - to USA in 1819. that became the Yellow Rose of Texas (rose). Harison's Yellow then ... The Yellow Rose of Texas (song) was inspired by this rose. Carolus Clusius might have grown it but he didn't used it to breed with it. Hafspajen (talk) 00:44, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I think we need stubs. I fixed the moth problem as a small start. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 15:10, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

OK; now you made me go throug your archives but I still don't get it who was the one who objected creating rose stubbs. Hafspajen (talk) 16:11, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

I don't think it was on this page (it might even have been in email). I started making some pages in April and May of this year, then my efforts were "corrected". It might be one of those things that happen when people who originally speak a different language are more or less direct than is expected in the other language. I'm told that German or Hebrew speakers are particularly surprising sometimes to English speakers by their directness that comes across as laying down the law or demanding that the person do something rather than merely a comment or a request as was intended by the speaker. I plan to forget now that it was ever said in the context of roses. I do quite often see people nominating a stub for deletion because it has "no substantial content", though. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 16:29, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

I am more confused than ever. A German Hebrew admin nominated your stubb? Hafspajen (talk) 16:34, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

No, when someone nominates a stub that I care about for deletion I scramble to add to it. These ones weren't nominated, but I was told that what I did was not appreciated, that adding stubs reduces the average quality of wikipedia pages. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 16:37, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Was it Rosa 'Perle d'Or' and Rosa 'Cécile Brünner'? Hafspajen (talk) 16:55, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

If you have to be that discreet, - well - but I still think that it sounds extremly WEIRD an admin should object to article stubbs. Hafspajen (talk) 17:25, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Pic on the creamy yellow buds - we should have a pic like this too. Hafspajen (talk) 18:25, 28 December 2014 (UTC) Nice. Hafspajen (talk) 18:28, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Not admins, just people who consider themselves to be cleaners of messes, messes like my work, apparently. Yes, I made those two and Rosa 'Blush Noisette' and had planned to try to make one per week, but it became depressing to deal with the reactions.

We need to send photographers out to the gardens that charge admission, which is where the old roses tend to be (unless they prohibit photos, of course). That wikicheese project is inspiring. The trouble with photographing gardens, though, is that most of us don't live near enough to such a garden to make repeat visits through the season, and I don't think it would work to request funding for travel, just maybe for the admission fee. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 20:27, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Well, whoever it was - sounds weird to jump on an other editor who creates articles. Hafspajen (talk) 20:54, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

I think we could do some more rose articles, now that an other editor takes care of Corinne's questions and projects she directed to me... how about that yellow rose article? Hafspajen (talk) 21:18, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

CorinneSD, I rather not interfere with Sca's ideas any more. Hafspajen (talk) 21:36, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Hafs I'm not sure what you mean by "now that another editor takes care of Corinne's questions..." but in any case, I pinged you and left you a message about American artist articles with no images at User talk:CorinneSD#Artist articles with no images, and you haven't replied. (I spent some time going through articles to make the list; haven't finished yet.) If I ask a question, I welcome replies from any editor who can help to answer it. I hope you don't feel that if I get help from Sca on something you will not help me or discuss things with me. Sca was helping me put a poorly translated article into English. I would really like to know what exactly has upset you. CorinneSD (talk) 23:26, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

I will not interact with him any more, because I do not think it worth my efforts any more after his ways towards me, I am sorry. I invested tremendous amount of energy and time in him just to be hit on the head. I will not go any more where he is, because I don't think really he did appologized and meant it too. He stopped interacting with me, never returned to my page and archived everythng from his. I don't want to discuss things with him. Feel free to follow his advices and nominate anything he suggested. Hafspajen (talk) 23:44, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

CorinneSD, I am sorry. This was wrong. I am getting just as a big idiot like the others. I imagine you wanted us to be friends again, so you started a lot of treads trying to get us involved with each other again... And I AM angry with him and let that go over you. SORRY. But I still think it has to come from him, not from you... because it was his choice to behave like he did. I didn't put up a big sign on my page - this editor is not welcome, like some did it with me, right after I apologized. He can try, if he wants. But somehow I don't believe that it will happen, I think it is just a WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT. So I will not get involved. Hafspajen (talk) 08:02, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

O.K. But just because you answer a question I have posed to you on a topic he has raised doesn't mean you're interacting with him. You're interacting with me. You can answer the question on your or Sminth's talk page if that makes a difference. I think you could have avoided this problem with Sca if, when he first did something that you didn't like, instead of losing your cool and expressing a lot of anger at once, you simply asked something like, "Are you now saying that you want to be in charge of the images in this article?" and waited for an answer. If he said, "Yes", then you could have simply said, "All right, but I'm very disappointed. I already put a lot of work into this article," and left it at that. Then the ball would be in his court, and he would have to respond. What you did was to throw everything at him -- anger, reasons why you should be allowed to continue choosing/organizing the images, feelings of betrayal, etc., etc. -- almost like you were a lawyer in a courtroom. After that, what can Sca say? Not everyone can deal with that kind of onslaught. To be on the receiving end of that does not lead to conciliatory responses. I think this is especially true of exchanges in writing on-line because no one can see your face, hear the tone in your voice, put a hand on your shoulder, etc. It's very hard to gauge the real extent of the other person's anger (is he or she really, truly angry, or just frustrated, or amazed, or just joking? It's hard to tell.) If you had simply expressed your disappointment, he might have felt more inclined to explain his point of view. I think he was put off by your anger, and didn't want to discuss it anymore. There was some kind of misunderstanding in there somewhere, but it never came out. I'd like to suggest that the next time this happens, you try a different approach: use carefully chosen statements and questions, and wait for a reply. I think sometimes you forget that other people have feelings, too, and different points of view, and that it takes some good listening and carefully expressed thoughts and questions to reach common ground or to bring the other person around to your point of view (that is, get the other person to agree with you). You're treating Sca as if he is all bad and you want nothing to do with him. The truth is that you know you share a lot of interests with him and have similar backgrounds and a good intellect. If you'd like to repair your friendship with Sca, you might consider apologizing to him. I know this goes against your grain, but you would be extending an olive branch, and being the bigger person in all this, and then re-gaining a good friend. Well, that's all I'll say about it. CorinneSD (talk) 16:20, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I could have done this and that - but I haven't. He could have done this or that - but he didn't- and actually I feel HE was to throwing suddenly everything at me. I was the nice part in this case. I was running around helping him, developing his ideas, taking care of everything he wanted me to do and he was explicitly told me he will not do anything. He didn't helped me with much things. Why can't anyone understand ME: I did not deserve the way he was treating me. I was on the receiving end of what HE started - reverting four times and that is a behavior on Wiki considered as a major hostile behavior - and incivility. Maybe you haven't heard about WP:Three revert rule. And that does not lead to conciliatory responses, yes, and he started it. I will not apologize for getting angry when he treated me unfair. And - maybe we don't have a common ground - my ground towards him was being nice and helpful. I also said several times I dislike spooky things, and I think one has to be able to decide what one wants on ones own talk. When Gareth told me he hated queen Elisabeth, I removed her picture speedily from his page and never thought a second about that it was something against me personally. I don't know what kind of grounds he started that edit war with me. Nobody of my friend have ever started an editwar with me, ever. Maybe you have not heard about WP:Edit warring. Read that, and read about Misplaced Pages:Revert only when necessary. I was apologizing to YOU, but I don't want to discuss this more. He have just as much responsibility, if not more. Hafspajen (talk) 16:32, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

• CorinneSD, I have read your secret exchange - and it is as I told you, he will not do anything more. That : sorry I reverted you however many times — though I didn't actually revert, I re-edited.- it is not a real I am sorry. It is not being sorry for I did you wrong = it is however many times - and means - yeah, you complain, you blow up the whole thing - however many times ... what does it matter. What does it matter what you say, how many times it was? and by the way, I never reverted but reedited. That is all self justification, not being really sorry. I might be bad at writing in English but I am not stupid. I understand what that means. It means: - I never did anything wrong, you are just exaggerating. And when people tell me I am exaggerating, they tell me : what you feel and think it doesn't matter. And that - is not apologizing. Apologizing is different. That means to be concerned, to think over everything and to be able to admit if something was wrong and also change what you acknowledge, so it will not happen again. If you want it even more plain: as Dr Phil say: You can't change what you don't acknowledge. And not acknowledging that it ever was anything wrong - is not making thing god again, it is just: oh, will you stop having feelings that bothers me. If I behaved stupidly I am able and also use to apologize, and if I would care for someone I would never think twice about it. Apologizing implies caring for the other person, not just wanting to tell them to stop having feelings that bothers you and stop accusing you. There are small differences - but there are there - and one who has ears can hear them and those who have eyes can see them. Hafspajen (talk) 20:06, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

Yellow roses

Yellow roses, good. I think we need some work on the species pages as a foundation; many of them are pale yellow. I have access to Eugster, C.H.; Märki-Fischer, E. "The Chemistry of Rose Pigments". Angewandte Chemie International Edition in English. 30 (6): 654–672. doi:10.1002/anie.199106541.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link) Not sure how much of it I understand, though. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 21:54, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

In my Rose Lexicon there is a rather clear time line - in 1824 came Park's yellow scented from China to Europe, and rose breededr started a program growing it. And before that Rosa foetida come to Europe with Clusius - from Turkey. That one was imported to USA in 1819. the one that became the Yellow Rose of Texas . But Park's yellow scented was flowering continuously, Foetida didn't. Hafspajen (talk) 22:19, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

• Here.-> http://www.rose.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/History-of-Roses-Tea-Roses.pdf Hafspajen (talk) 22:22, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Park's yellow scented. Hafspajen (talk) 22:27, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

• And this: There were no yellow roses (as we know them) were grown during the Regency period. There were a few species (single, 5 petal flowers) in the Burnet class and some others I mention below, but I suspect none of you, if you saw them, would say they were roses. There were some yellow roses in Persia, but they could not survive the colder European weather and were not grown in England until well after the Regency. Up until the introduction of China Roses, the colors of roses were mostly shades of pink, white (esp. in the Alba class) with a few deep pink or purple (mostly in the Gallica class). That's pretty much it. Hafspajen (talk) 22:29, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

A Google book Park's Yellow Hafspajen (talk) 23:46, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

It's a bit of a puzzle how Rosa hemisphaerica (R. sulphurea, R. rapinii) fits into the garden history. Very prickly, apparently, perhaps in some sense not a "garden rose". Sminthopsis84 (talk) 17:31, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

We have to build everything, even just to make a page about Park's yellow (and Hume's blush) we need the basic species pages to be cleaned up enough for links to them to make some sense ... Sminthopsis84 (talk) 15:30, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Rose petals of all colours contain flavonoids in quantity, and it was assumed that the yellow colours of roses are due to flavonol glycosides until in the 1960s it was proven that carotenoids are also present in yellow roses. In fact, the flavonol glycosides only contribute to petal colour when their concentration is high; in combination with the yellow from carotenoids they bring a brownish tinge to some roses (demonstrated in Rosa 'William Allen Richardson' and Rosa 'Whisky Mac').

Are we going to this? Hafspajen (talk) 11:14, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

I think we can do it. There's more interesting material in that paper about the chemistry, which I'll digest some more. Then I'd like to make pages about each of the important old yellow roses, then replace Yellow rose with a real page about roses that are yellow, and move the existing page to ...(disambiguation). I think the new page would be at least as notable as Blue rose. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 13:24, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Blue and blue. That's more lilac. Hafspajen (talk) 23:42, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Photo ID

File:Cucurbita_2011_G1.jpg, in that photo there is definitely C. pepo. I'm think the one at the back is C. moschata. Maybe some are C. maxima. What do you think? Some of these are very hard to distinguish from just a photo. I think we can post at FAC within a day or two. HalfGig talk 14:21, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

How many cultivars do you think, five? That big blue one at the back looks to me like 'Queensland Blue', which is always said to be 'C. maxima', but I think it is difficult to tell from the fruit. I don't know well how to recognize different cultivars, so please take this with a grain of salt: I think the most likely C. pepos are the two round orange ones with green flecks far right and centre. Let me know if you want me to read something over, I'm not managing to keep up with my watch list at the moment. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 15:46, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

There are at least 5 cultivars and yes as we know the cultivars are very hard to distinguish at times, not just the species: 1-the pale blue one at the back is probably Queensland Blue (C. maxima) but could be moschata (see this). Queensland Blue has an acorn shape if you can see the whole thing but we can't see it here; 2-the orange ones are C. pepo; 3-the two pinkish ones I'm uncertain; 4-the two big grayish ones on the left are C. maxima, I think; and 5-the one in the left rear, I'm uncertain. Note it's shape is quite different from the other two grayish ones. I'd say at leasat 3 species here: C. pepo, C. maxima, C. moschata. That's what I'll change the caption to. HalfGig talk 16:40, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Hmm, we're in some danger of the image variant of WP:OR here. Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:46, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Yes, a hazardous guess, I think. I'm not at all sure about the C. moschata identification. Although I'm totally convinced that there are at least two species in the image, I don't think we can say that if the photographer didn't own up. Could a different image with better original data be found? Or perhaps asking the photographer might yield some cultivar names. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 16:57, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

I've asked him over on Commons, see this post. If we do end up using only one of the two photos (this one or current info box one), which one should it be? I'm assuming C.Chap votes for the current one since he did the swap and took the photo. ;-) HalfGig talk 17:08, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

I also like the one that is at the top of the species section. It's a closer-in shot so the fruits are easier to see. My only issues with the one currently in the box is that the fruits are a bit small and lighting is a tad dim, so they're harder to see easily. HalfGig talk 17:13, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

I don't mind which image is used, they are both good. There's something to be said, I think, for the top image showing the fruits as clearly agriculturally important, whereas the later image has more of the look of curiosities that mightn't be as edible. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 17:21, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

The infobox image is in full sun; the fruits fill the frame; there is a strong colour contrast between the different types in the image. Chiswick Chap (talk) 17:47, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

OK. We have a group slight preference for the current infobox image. For now I'm going to comment out the FP photo, pending on if and what the uploader on commons says. We can always put it back in. I plan to nom this at FAC with all three of us as conoms on 31 Dec or 01 Jan. Sound good? HalfGig talk 18:02, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Okay. Loathe as I am to be listed as a person who nominates pages for anything, I guess it makes clear that it would be a conflict of interest for me to support the nomination, so okay, I'm happy to be listed. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 18:08, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

I understand your trepidation. I shy from it too but someone has to do it. According to this tool we are the top three editors (scroll to the bottom of the page). HalfGig talk 18:14, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Good gracious, what a lot of edits. We are all well ahead of AnomieBOT and ClueBOT combined. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 21:35, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Happy New Year Sminthopsis84!

Sminthopsis84,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Misplaced Pages. Hafspajen (talk) 10:46, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Thank you Hafs, that is very kind of you. I will advance into the new year brandishing asparagus and lemons. That should keep the trolls at bay. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 13:30, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Move of epilepsy article

Have moved back as I am not seeing consensus. Needs further discussion. Best Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 05:10, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Happy New Year Sminthopsis84!

Sminthopsis84,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Misplaced Pages. CorinneSD (talk) 19:13, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Why didn't the fireworks come out as they did on my talk page? CorinneSD (talk) 19:15, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Thank you CorinneSD! I've replied on your talk page, and I BROKE IT! So sorry! I pinged someone who changed a template at around the time when it seemed that things stopped working properly, so I hope they can sort out the problem. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 20:11, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

testing. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 20:43, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Happy New Year Sminthopsis84!

Sminthopsis84,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Misplaced Pages. NorthAmerica 09:18, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

And now...

...and maybe the path through the forest of life will look like this.....

Best wishes Sminthopsis84 for a happy and healthy 2015
PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 10:18, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

How lovely, PCW, thank you. Forests are such wonderful places. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 13:25, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Tilia

Prompted by the two images at User talk:Sca#Arboreal longevity, I first read the article on Kaditz Lime Tree and then skimmed the article on Tilia. In the section Tilia#Germanic mythology there is a photo of lime/linden trees in a cemetery in Jutland, Denmark. I had never seen trees that look like that before. I just wonder if you could tell me what those woody clumps at the tops of the trees are. Where does new growth emerge in the spring? These trees don't look like the tree in the image at the beginning of the article.

Also, in the article on Kaditz Lime Tree I noticed that there is no link to the article Tilia in the lede. I'm wondering whether it should be at the word "lime" or "lime tree" or at Tilia. CorinneSD (talk) 17:04, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

Those trees are pollarded. It can only work with some species that are able to produce buds for new growth next to severely damaged wood. I've added a link to the species. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 17:45, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation and the link to the article on pollarding. As I read the article I made a few small edits to improve clarity. (Feel free to undo any or all.) I was puzzled by a sentence in the second paragraph in pollarding#Species:

• It removes rotting or diseased branches to support the overall health of the tree, living and dead branches that could harm property and people, as well as expanded foliage in spring for aesthetic, shade and pollution concerns.

I don't think this sentence is as clear as it could be. I understand everything up to "property and people". After that, it doesn't make sense to me. Does pollarding remove expanded foliage in spring? CorinneSD (talk) 23:53, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

I have no idea what any of the elements in that last part after "people" could mean. I've tagged it with "clarification needed". Sminthopsis84 (talk) 14:11, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Shortia galacifolia

I've done a 5X expansion of this and put it at DYK. Can you look it over for wording, accuracy, and so on? Thank you. HalfGig talk 22:24, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Looks good, I think. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 19:14, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Landscape

Sminth and User:Hafspajen A few of us have been discussing a re-working of the article Landscape. See Talk:Landscape#Discussion from my talk. One, User:Zaereth, has begun the trimming that was discussed, which I applaud. I'm wondering whether you would like to write a section or two such as "Landscape in (or and) art", "Landscape in (or and) architecture", or "Landscape in (or and) gardening". If you have any other ideas for creating a better article, please feel free to add them to the discussion. CorinneSD (talk) 00:35, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

I'm rather busy for a few days ... Sminthopsis84 (talk) 19:13, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Foxtail millet

I saw that an editor has renamed a section in Foxtail millet from "Terms for foxtail millet in other languages" to "Names", and added "In the countries where it is cultivated, the foxtail millet is known as:" before the list of names. I can't judge the appropriateness of the change to the section heading, so I'll let you judge that, but I just want to point out something. Because of that added sentence beginning, what should follow "the foxtail millet is known as" is the name, not "in + language". If you think that sentence beginning is all right, what do you think of reversing the order of each item in the list, putting the name first, as:

...is known as:

• thina in Malayalam

• navane or navane akki in Kannada

etc.

Also, if you decide the new sentence beginning should stay, I wonder if the word "the" before "foxtail millet" is needed. I think just "foxtail millet is known as" is sufficient. CorinneSD (talk) 16:11, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I think having the added sentence makes some sense, since this plant is a weed in other places, and a list of the names just where people grow it to eat it seems appropriate. I agree with your suggestion about reversing the order of each entry, and also that taking "the" before foxtail millet is more standard English (putting it in there I think is a feature of Indian English). Sminthopsis84 (talk) 17:09, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

See User talk:Hzh#Foxtail millet. Hzh knows Mandarin Chinese and, I believe Japanese and maybe also Korean. CorinneSD (talk) 16:19, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

You're joking, right? CorinneSD (talk) 18:37, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

I don't know. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 18:38, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Yes, you're joking. I just re-read the caption. CorinneSD (talk) 18:40, 8 January 2015 (UTC) I had been focusing on the plant and not the first words in the caption. CorinneSD (talk) 18:41, 8 January 2015 (UTC) I feel really stupid that I wasn't sure you were joking or not. I thought, being a botanist, you were pointing out a different kind of millet. I guess botanists are not always serious. CorinneSD (talk) 18:51, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Perhaps not, but it can be very hard to tell. (Don't feel foolish, surely even a fine copyeditor like yourself could sometimes misread a word or two.) Sminthopsis84 (talk) 18:59, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Herbal tea

I was just reading the article on Herbal tea. I noticed in the third paragraph in Herbal tea#Popularity that there are a lot of capitalized names of teas and combinations of teas in different languages. The capitalization does not seem consistent. When you have time, can you check this? CorinneSD (talk) 01:07, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

Changed. The foreign-language words should be italicized, but the species names also need to be. I'm not sure what to do about that. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 14:22, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

See also User talk:Hzh#Herbal tea. CorinneSD (talk) 16:53, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

Schnapps

First I read the article on Liqueur. From there, I decided to read the article on Schnapps. I was surprised to see the last section in the article on Schnapps. Do you think it belongs there? CorinneSD (talk) 01:23, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

No. That should be removed as per Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages is not a dictionary. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 13:33, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Well, that's three of us in favour of removing it. Rothorpe (talk) 18:12, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Okay. I've removed it. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 18:19, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Good. Thanks. CorinneSD (talk) 19:18, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

"clarification needed"

The previous lead paragraph didn't even attempt to define paratype. I think my edit is a big improvement. If there is something that needs clarifying please do so. Bhny (talk) 16:03, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Done. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 16:21, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Fennel

Do you agree? CorinneSD (talk) 19:15, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. The statements are not medical advice, so the requirement for citations are not so strong. The more blog-like one isn't actually a blog. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 14:05, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

List of distributed computing projects

Thank you for your helpful update to a project listing. Could I twist your arm into sharing your two cents on a question I raised concerning that article? Your opinion would add greatly to a stagnant discussion. – voidxor  21:30, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Wilhelm Nikolaus Suksdorf, Suksdorfia violacea has been nominated for Did You Know

Hello, Sminthopsis84. Wilhelm Nikolaus Suksdorf, Suksdorfia violacea, an article you either created or significantly contributed to, has been nominated for Did you know consideration to appear on Misplaced Pages's Main Page. You can see the hook and the discussion here. You are welcome to participate! Thank you. APersonBot (talk!) 02:51, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Cucurbita foetidissima

I was just looking at the article on Cucurbita foetidissima, and I made a few minor copy-edits. As I was going through the section on "Uses", I noticed that there were two instances of unpaired double quotation marks for italics. (They're highlighted in red in Edit Mode.) Since I don't know exactly what should be in italics, I thought I'd just point it out to you. CorinneSD (talk) 02:15, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

(Happened to see this.) The problem seemed to be in the citations; I've converted these to templates which I think has fixed the problems. The article could do with some copy-editing, though, as there's quite a bit of "note form" writing. Over to you, CorinneSD! Peter coxhead (talk) 10:14, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Peter, I did my best to put it into more acceptable prose. If you have time, would you review my edits just to make sure I didn't say something that's not correct? CorinneSD (talk) 18:35, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Much better! I'm always inclined to use |abbr=on with {{convert}} – it avoids arguments over the US spelling "-meters" and the ISO spelling "-metres". I also prefer to reduce the default number of decimal places shown; for example when using inches, who can measure to 1/100th of an inch? Also you often find that (as here) the converted Imperial/US customary units are suspiciously close to whole numbers, suggesting the original measurement was in these units and the metric ones have been obtained by conversion. I suppose the °C should also be converted? Peter coxhead (talk) 19:59, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! I've wondered for a long time how to limit the decimal places so that one doesn't get things like 7.2 inches, or 4.8 miles. What does the "0" or "1" after the last pipe mean, or do? I agree about avoiding meters/metres, but sometimes one might want to use the full words for other units. Does that method (adding 0 or 1 after the last pipe) work when you haven't entered "abbr=on"? CorinneSD (talk) 20:30, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

The "0" or "1" is the number of decimal places. You can also use "-1" meaning round to the nearest 10, "-2" meaning round to the nearest 100, etc. You don't need the "abbr=on" to make the rounding work.

The trouble with using full words for other units is that editors will then argue that it's inconsistent to have some units spelt out and not others, and then we're back to how to spell "metre". I've seen several nasty and completely pointless edit wars over the spelling of units. Stick to abbreviations is my advice! Peter coxhead (talk) 20:42, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, Peter. CorinneSD (talk) 20:53, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Thank you both. I was offline for the last couple of days, and come back to see that this is all taken care of. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 20:44, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

In Cucurbita, after I saw your edit undoing my edit, I changed two other instances of "Cucurbitaceae" from italics to Roman (regular) font. I saw one or two instances of the word in italics in the References, but I don't know whether they should be changed. CorinneSD (talk) 20:51, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Well spotted. Done. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 08:09, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Pattypan squash

I've decided to go through the various squash articles. The last few sentences in the article Pattypan squash are:

• Pattypan is a good source of magnesium, niacin, and vitamins A and C. One cup contains approximately 20 to 30 calories and no fat. It is often sliced, coated and fried until golden brown, or simply boiled. In Polish cuisine, they are pickled in sweet vinegar.

I noticed that the squash is referred to in both the singular and plural. I've highlighted the verbs in boldface. I wonder what you think of the switch from singular to plural from the second-to-last to the last sentence. What would you change? CorinneSD (talk) 22:48, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Ah, you do notice a lot. I suppose I'd take the easy way out, trying to avoid having editors wondering whether "squash" can be used as both the singular and the plural, and consequently would just change "they are pickled" to "it is pickled". Sminthopsis84 (talk) 08:24, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

I guess squash is spoken of in the singular and the plural. Would it improve things a little if we just change "they are" to "squash are"? CorinneSD (talk) 17:35, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Yellow crookneck squash

At the end of the first paragraph in Yellow crookneck squash is the following sentence:

• Its name distinguishes it from its close relative, the yellow summer squash, which has a straight neck.

I believe "its name" refers to Tromboncino, which is mentioned toward the end of the previous sentence. Do you think that the average reader will figure out (without clicking on the link and reading the article) that "Tromboncino" means "little trombone" (I'm just guessing that that's what it means)? CorinneSD (talk) 23:09, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

This is related to the Yellow summer squash page, which I fear might not be salvageable. I'd like to see the sentence "Its name distinguishes it from its close relative, the yellow summer squash, which has a straight neck." removed entirely. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 21:07, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Or perhaps not, see next section with insight from HalfGig. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 21:15, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Both of these are mis-named. They're not always yellow. I'll go fix both articles. I should have jumped on this long ago. HalfGig talk 23:25, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Yellow summer squash

The last sentence in Yellow summer squash is:

• It is available all year long in some regions but is at its peak from early through late summer.

I'm just wondering if "from early through late summer" is really clear for people who live outside of North America. Wouldn't the use of the names of the months (such as "from June through September"), either instead of "from early through late summer" or in addition to it, be clearer? CorinneSD (talk) 23:22, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Ah, but think of the Australians! The usual advice is to use seasons for the life cycle of plants (see MOS:SEASON). You could say something like "from early through late summer (June through September in the northern hemisphere)", but then there's always the problem of those who live in Alaska or the far north of Canada and Europe. Peter coxhead (talk) 10:51, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

I see your point, but does yellow summer squash grow in Alaska and the far north of Canada and Europe? I guess it could, but those areas would have a much shorter summer growing season, perhaps just late June through mid-August. Sigh... I was thinking that it would not be so inappropriate to use the growing season of the areas where it is native, but now that the squash has spread to the rest of the world, the time of the growing season gets complicated. I wonder if "June through September" is not even correct for Mesoamerica, where the growing season would be even longer. CorinneSD (talk) 17:32, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

The Yellow summer squash page is not an asset to the reader. The source used does not support a statement that yellow summer squash cannot be of a crookneck type. There are a lot of sorts of yellow summer squash, not just the kind pictured on the page, as for example in this image. P.S.: Alaska produces magnificent vegetables, grown in glass houses on that excellent volcanic soil, and with the long summer days causing the plants to grow at a tremendous rate. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 20:40, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

It should be renamed to Yellow straightneck squash or Straightneck squash. HalfGig talk 21:06, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Oh yes, that would help a lot! Sminthopsis84 (talk) 21:14, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

I was wondering about that. The kind of yellow summer squash we see is straight, only slightly bumpy, and all light yellow (like the ones in the background in the last photo you posted just above). I hadn't seen the one with the green at the bottom that was in the article. I'm glad you explained that. Oh, yes...regarding Alaska, I had forgotten about those long summer days. CorinneSD (talk) 23:44, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

I'm still puzzled; the yellow squash that we call "summer squash" is only slightly crooknecked (sometimes slender and slightly curved at top), but only very slightly bumpy, not like the one in the image in Crookneck squash, but not as smooth and shiny as the one in the image in Straightneck squash. What is that? CorinneSD (talk) 23:51, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Apparently, the squash seeds available from the larger seed suppliers each year change rapidly, and at any one time many of those available are hybrids. For example, this site says "many hybrids are short-lived and cannot be reproduced because their parents are not publicly available. Thus, the collection contains several crookneck and straightneck hybrids that no longer exist. However, newer ones have replaced them and the number of extant cultivars in these groups appears to have changed little in 20 or 30 years." I think the kind you describe could well be derived from crossing a smooth-skinned yellow straightneck or zucchini with a warty crookneck type, perhaps a bit like this. Perhaps seed produces are choosing to market summer squash that are more alike now, rather than choosing them to look very different from one another. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 06:13, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

I looked at the photo in the Stokes link. The color is all right, but the ones I'm speaking of (which have remained the same since I was younger), are shaped like the crookneck ones -- fatter at one end and with a slender, curved neck at the other -- and they are not shiny. They are like the one in the article on crookneck squash but just not quite so bumpy as that one. Maybe they are crookneck squashes but just picked while young. CorinneSD (talk) 17:14, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I think the various kinds are generally less bumpy when young. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 20:59, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Spaghetti squash

I didn't see any problems in Spaghetti squash, but I wanted to ask what you and Peter thought of the prose style of the lede paragraph. The sentences are all short.

Also, in most of the article, the squash is referred to in the singular, but in Spaghetti squash#Cultivation it is spoken of in the plural. What do you think? Would you change it or just leave it? CorinneSD (talk) 23:38, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

I'm just curious -- what makes the flesh come out looking like spaghetti after the squash has been cooked? CorinneSD (talk) 22:38, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

I don't know. Some melons and other cucurbitaceae have somewhat fibrous flesh some of the time. I'd guess that when it is cooked, some areas of the flesh with more water-soluble pectin-rich cells fall apart, causing the more solid parts to separate as strands. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 04:14, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

I think you are on the right track there, although I have no info to back this up. I love that stuff, incidentally, and have had it many times. Taste is a bit different from that of spaghetti, and texture a bit crunchier. But still great stuff.Joseph Laferriere (talk) 21:27, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Do you? I asked a few people here if anyone liked it, and the answer was no. Perhaps we aren't preparing it well, or are using an inappropriate sauce. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 21:41, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Zucchini

I went through the article on Zucchini and found very few problems. I just wonder about one image in the article. It's the photo of the golden zucchini in the section Zucchini#Cultivation with the caption "Golden zucchini harvested in summer". It looks like it is a double squash, two squashes stuck together. While it is interesting, I believe it is unusual, and I would think an illustrative photo should be of a more usual specimen. What do you think? CorinneSD (talk) 00:57, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Yes. I agree that it would be better to have a photo of a more usual specimen, or a set of them as in some of the other photos in the Commons category. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 07:14, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Porteresia

Concerning Porteresia, I was just following Kew's World Checklist.Joseph Laferriere (talk) 03:05, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I realized that was what you were doing. Sorry if I was curt. It's a problem when different authorities are using different classifications. In this case, I think the number of sources about the genetics that use the Porteresia name, plus the Banglapedia mention of it as economically important are good reasons to have a page that discusses the different taxonomic opinions, rather than just sinking it as a synonym of Oryza where the species is not discussed. In what I was trying to do today, I seemed to run into nothing but that kind of problem, should Turpinia malabarica which is listed as unresolved in ThePlantList have a page, it does; should the Pseudopanax colensoi page be moved to Neopanax colensoi, ... quite frustrating. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 04:08, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

I hesitated to do that redirect on Porteresia. I long ago established a policy of adding to existing pages but not deleting anyone else's work unless it is clearly wrong. I will, though, reword something to make it more intelligible, which is necessary in a thoroughly appalling number of cases. In this case, I scanned what was there and decided that it did not have much worth saving, that it did not do a good job of explaining disagreements over the status.Joseph Laferriere (talk) 11:12, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

See if you think it is okay now, with just a bit more added. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 20:46, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Very good. Much improvement. Only problem is that Kew says the thing grows in India, Pakistan, and Myanmar as well as Bangladesh.Joseph Laferriere (talk) 21:24, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

I saw elsewhere that it grows around the Bay of Bengal, so Pakistan seems strange, unless it has been introduced. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 21:31, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

All I know is what it says on Kew. And Kew is never wrong. Well, almost never.Joseph Laferriere (talk) 22:33, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

What you do in that sort of situation is to say "It has been reported from Pakistan" and give the reference. If you say "It also grows in Pakistan" then you are vouching for the accuracy of the statement and accepting responsibility for this. But if you say "It has been reported," you are making a 100% accurate statement, as yes, it has been reported from there. But the responsibility for the accuracy of the report you are passing back to the author of the reference.Joseph Laferriere (talk) 13:22, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

I've used "reported" when sources aren't clear - but beware of Manual of Style agitators lurking in the grass, waiting to pounce and tell you to "stop using 'reported' and simalar WP:WEASEL words" ... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 14:22, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Weasel words??? I guess weasels are wiser than people give them credit for. What I outlined is simply good sense, an attempt to be totally truthful in a case in which sources disagree. What are the alternatives? Say with certainty that the plant is found in Pakistan? Or say with certainty that it is not? We need more information than we have available to resolve the question of whether it grows there or not. I stand by what I said as the appropriate way to handle this.Joseph Laferriere (talk) 16:09, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Yes. Weasels might generally use better spelling that some MOS enthusiasts. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 19:07, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Yes, the "weasel words" battle cry often interferes with accuracy in wikipedia. Over-zealous "copy editing" often destroys the meaning of carefully crafted sentences. Why remove "its" from "it should not be planted in areas previously occupied by its close relatives" unless the discussion is about gardeners who are closely related to one another and who occupy areas (which is wasn't). Over-zealous copyediting creates bloopers like "the an allele" from "the a allele". Any one interested in forming a league of anti-copyeditors? Sminthopsis84 (talk) 21:28, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

• Never knew that: the Washington state geologist was reported to regard the mudslide as one of the largest landslides he's seen. is a veasel word, any part of it. Washingtonpajen (talk) 03:39, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Indeed. My first thought was that weasels might be digging animals, one of whom was employed as a geologist to investigate the landslide, but "The least weasel does not dig its own den, but nests in the abandoned burrow of another species such as a mole or rat.", so such employment seems ill-advised. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 03:56, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

• Do you think he is the guy? File:Bougainville.jpg Bougainvillea? --Hafspajen (talk) 04:34, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Yes. He looks a bit slimmer there. See Philibert Commerson. Commerson's name is the one that is "correct". He made it clear who he was naming it after: "Nomen à D. de Bougainville itineris Commersoniani duce.", as can be seen here, page 91. Bougainvillea Comm. ex Juss. 1789 is a conserved name as per the International Code of Botanical Nomenclature Appendix E3 "Bougainvillea Comm. ex Juss., Gen. Pl.: 91. 4 Aug 1789 (‘Buginvillaea’) (orth. cons.) . Typus: B. spectabilis Willd. (Sp. Pl. 2: 348. 1799) (typ. cons.)." and that is also listed in the the International Plant Names Index. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 20:45, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

This weasel seems to prefer action to words... PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 22:11, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Now I want a pet weasel. Perhaps that would disqualify me as a wikipedia editor (and the chipmunks and flying squirrels on this page might object too). 22:07, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Pansy

Just wondered what you thought of this edit to Pansy: . CorinneSD (talk) 00:32, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

P.S. I asked Kwamikagami User talk:Kwamikagami#Pansy because s/he's one of the etymology experts. When I left my first message to him, I thought it was a real change to the etymology section. Only later did I see it was a kind of re-organization, with a new section being created, but I'd still like to know what you think. Do you like the series of one-sentence paragraphs? CorinneSD (talk) 01:02, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

I trimmed it a bit. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 07:42, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

I saw your edit. I'm just curious -- why did you remove the line about pansy in Spanish but not all the other ones about pansy in different languages? CorinneSD (talk) 00:57, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

The other entries such as "In Hungary it is known as árvácska (small orphan)" had at least some mention of what the name means, but the Spanish was just a bald statement about a name that is used, which the interwiki should handle adequately (I didn't check whether the Spanish page needs more information on it). Sminthopsis84 (talk) 02:13, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Oh. O.K. CorinneSD (talk) 02:35, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

credentialism

Hello Sminthopsis84, I edit the Open Education Sociology Dictionary. I noticed traffic coming from Misplaced Pages and saw the dictionary's definition of credentialism was linked on the credentialism page. Out of curiousity I viewed the revisions and you commented "The sociology dictionary is a bad citation; it is claiming that Ronald Dore's book was published in 1925 and that he popularized the problem, i.e., caused the problem." Your comment was based on this line: "The overzealous pursuit of credentials is called diploma disease and was popularized by Ronald Dore (1925) in The Diploma Disease: Education, Qualification, and Development (1976)."

First, 1925 refers to when Dore was born not when the book was published. Second, you are right, that was a poorly worded sentence that reads like Dore caused the problem.

Thanks for pointing out the flawed and confusing phrasing, it has been changed to: "The overzealous pursuit of credentials is called diploma disease, a term popularized by Ronald Dore (born 1925) in The Diploma Disease: Education, Qualification, and Development (1976)." Also, the date next to a name of a living person is contextually confusing so I have added "born" to remove the ambiguity. I am currently changing similar instances on other definitions to match this new convention.

Correcting this term inspired me to expand credential inflation and add credential creep during the next update as well.

Thank for pointing out the mistakes in the dictionary and keep up the good work.

Kenton Bell (talk) 13:44, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know. There's a discussion at Talk:Credential_inflation#Proposed_merger_with_Academic_inflation suggesting merging 4 pages, but it is getting no added votes. Do you have an opinion about that? The pages are Academic inflation, Credentialism, Credential creep, and Credential inflation. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 19:03, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

While I think it would be possible to combine these four terms, I am not sure how. Each are specialized terms from different authors highlighting unique facets. Thus what would be the headword? I have requested the primary sources through my university and will get back to you. Kenton Bell (talk) 07:04, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

I'm so glad you have some ideas about this. Perhaps we can at least combine one or two as a start. Perhaps we could combine them all under whatever is the earliest term, or under a combination such as "Credentialism and credential inflation". Sminthopsis84 (talk) 20:35, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

DYK for Wilhelm Nikolaus Suksdorf

On 7 February 2015, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Wilhelm Nikolaus Suksdorf, which you recently created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that self-taught botanist Wilhelm Nikolaus Suksdorf is the namesake of the type species Suksdorfia violacea? You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, live views, daily totals), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Harrias 00:02, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

DYK for Suksdorfia violacea

On 7 February 2015, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Suksdorfia violacea, which you recently created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that self-taught botanist Wilhelm Nikolaus Suksdorf is the namesake of the type species Suksdorfia violacea? You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, live views, daily totals), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Harrias 00:03, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Isatis tinctoria 2

Did you see the latest comment at Talk:Isatis tinctoria#problem with cited source; can we find a better one?? CorinneSD (talk) 20:56, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

I've replied there. Better sources seem to be available. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 22:08, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Wine tasting

What do you think of this and adjacent edits to Wine tasting? Are prunes significantly different from the stewed prunes already in the list? Also (and this was there before these edits), how can "minerals" be a flavoring agent, if that's what these are? CorinneSD (talk) 22:41, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Hmm. I haven't a clue about wine tasting, having always believed that in the text "John left the window and drank the wine on the table. It was brown and round." (Wilks, 1975) "It was brown and round" must be an oenophile's way of describing the wine, and consequently that I haven't a hope of understanding that code.

Perhaps a sophisticated palate considers stewed prunes to be different from prunes ..., no, I suspect that edit was a blunder. For "minerals", perhaps what is meant is sulphates, chlorides, phosphates. Those ions are mentioned, e.g., here. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 23:05, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Hafspajen, PaleCloudedWhite Do you know anything about wine? See above. CorinneSD (talk) 23:23, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

As someone who doesn't like the taste of alcohol, I know nothing about wine, or any alcoholic drink for that matter. However I think that any statements about the flavours of a wine should be based on sources - otherwise different editors could be adding ther own opinions, and probably disagreeing with one another in the process. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 23:40, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

And seconed. Hafspajen (talk) 15:06, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Thirded. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 01:06, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Speaking of ethanol, can anyone reading this figure out how to fix the notes at List of IARC Group 1 carcinogens? I tried to use template:Note, with a, b, c, d, e, f as the note indicators, but it produced numbers just like citation footnotes, so that was not an improvement. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 01:48, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Okra

I've started to read the article on Okra. I was looking at an image in the section Okra#Structure and physiology. It mainly shows one flower, but the caption says, "Okra plant while flowering". Since very little of the plant, apart from the flower, is visible, shouldn't the caption just say "Okra flower"? I see there is an image of an okra plant flowering in the section Okra#Origin and distribution. CorinneSD (talk) 00:20, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

That image was changed without adjusting the caption; until 12 April 2014 it was this image. The image in the section Okra#Origin and distribution is much better; perhaps it could be moved up and the other one deleted. (The picture of the sushi with okra slices is interesting.) Sminthopsis84 (talk) 20:09, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Some baklava for you!

thanks Lukeisawesome999 (talk) 22:47, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Groundnut rosette virus

I know very little about viruses, so I wondered if you could have a look at the article Groundnut rosette virus, which I have just expanded, in case I have made any howlers through misunderstanding the sources I used. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 14:29, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

That was a tiny page before! I've made some changes, and have these further comments. The page is a bit puzzling about what is a groundnut; sometimes it clearly is a peanut, but at other times it appears to be all those plants listed on the disambiguation page. It seems odd to have a picture of healthy plants. Sub-saharan Africa is contrasted with places that are components of it. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 20:47, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. I have removed the image and made some changes with regards to the other points you make. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 07:22, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Cassava 2

I'm starting a new section on Cassava because the first one is getting rather long. What do you think of this edit? I suppose one could look at it as: "One can't be too careful", but does anyone eat the peel of a cassava? I'll let you decide on this one, but if you decide it should stay, it needs a space added. CorinneSD (talk) 17:22, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Cake

Sminth Would you mind reading Talk:Cake#Cake as a dessert?, which was posted in response to my edit , and I responded to that post. I feel there must be a real cultural difference here. I felt as if I were reading something written by someone from another planet when I read the edit summary and even the post on the talk page. I'm always glad to learn something new, but I need help to understand this. CorinneSD (talk) 23:14, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

I think the other editor has a point (though "a sweet baked" is not a noun phrase). Some sorts of ceremonies involve serving nothing but a special cake, so it wouldn't be a dessert course as dessert is described here in the wikipedia. By that definition a surprise birthday party among co-workers where a cake is brought to someone's desk and divided among the participants would be an example of a cake course not being a dessert course. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 00:07, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

Yes, of course a cake can be served by itself for special occasions, but it can also be served, granted, often by the slice, as a dessert. But just because it is served by the slice doesn't mean the cake is not a dessert. CorinneSD (talk) 01:11, 15 February 2015 (UTC) (Sorry. I sound like I'm arguing with you, and I don't mean to be.) CorinneSD (talk) 19:00, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

Taro

I was looking at the article on Taro and was trying to find a picture of the taro root. Except for a busy photo in Taro#Japan, the only pictures of the root are all the way at the end, in the gallery. Don't you think it would be a good idea to put a picture of the root earlier in the article, since the root is the part of the plant that is eaten most often (I see the stems are also eaten)? CorinneSD (talk) 00:16, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

Hmm, that is a very confused page, I think. It has a taxobox for the variety within the species, but it says that taro is the tubers only. The leaves of that species are also eaten, e.g., as Patrode. I don't know enough about what the word "Taro" actually means. I'll ask whether anyone at the WP:PLANTS project has the knowledge required to sort that out. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 10:17, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I found a lot in the article to be confusing. Apparently there are at least two types, the "eddo" or "eddoe" type and the "dasheen" type, but at least one of those names seems to be used for the other type in some places. CorinneSD (talk) 18:16, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

Cassava-based dishes

Is this external link an appropriate addition to Cassava-based dishes? CorinneSD (talk) 19:01, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

It's not ideal, but it would be hard to argue that no such citation should be used. I've changed it to a citation from being an entry in the See also section. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 10:10, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Weasel for You

	A Pet Weasel
	https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Sminthopsis84&diff=646247738&oldid=646238731 Hafspajen (talk) 04:23, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Oh wow! What whiskers! Onwards with the weasel words! Sminthopsis84 (talk) 10:41, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Seeking your opinion

Hi. Why is that I'm attacked when I try to bring major changes in Bangladesh-related stuff in Misplaced Pages? Sometimes my edits were foolish, but not the vast majority of them. I recently expanded the history section in Dhaka and I'm being harangued in the talk page for that, despite clearly explaining my stance. Because I'm lectured so much on the importance of a consensus, I offered my suggestions to the talk page of Bangladesh, and I'm rudely rejected. I began improving the Bangladesh page. I recently rewrote politics, foreign policy and added a biodiversity section. I know more about the country from critical perspective than most of these Bangladeshi editors, and I have time at the moment to contribute and I want to. Instead I face ridicule and attacks. I guess the rest of the Misplaced Pages community seems to have left Bangladesh to a few people, but I'm appealing for help here. I apologized for any wrong behavior but that's still not enough. I'm still going to be attacked for the legitimate edits I make. Its just not fair. I'm completely alone in this.--Rainmaker23 (talk) 02:15, 17 February 2015 (UTC)