Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement

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Click here to add a new enforcement request
For appeals: create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}
See also: Logged AE sanctions

Important informationShortcuts

Please use this page only to:

request administrative action against editors violating a remedy (not merely a principle) or an injunction in an Arbitration Committee decision, or a contentious topic restriction imposed by an administrator,
request contentious topic restrictions against previously alerted editors who engage in misconduct in a topic area designated as a contentious topic,
request page restrictions (e.g. revert restrictions) on pages that are being disrupted in topic areas designated as contentious topics, or
appeal arbitration enforcement actions (including contentious topic restrictions) to uninvolved administrators.

For all other problems, including content disagreements or the enforcement of community-imposed sanctions, please use the other fora described in the dispute resolution process. To appeal Arbitration Committee decisions, please use the clarification and amendment noticeboard.

Only autoconfirmed users may file enforcement requests here; requests filed by IPs or accounts less than four days old or with less than 10 edits will be removed. All users are welcome to comment on requests except where doing so would violate an active restriction (such as an extended-confirmed restriction). If you make an enforcement request or comment on a request, your own conduct may be examined as well, and you may be sanctioned for it. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. (Word Count Tool) Statements must be made in separate sections. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as personal attacks, or groundless or vexatious complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.

To make an enforcement request, click on the link above this box and supply all required information. Incomplete requests may be ignored. Requests reporting diffs older than one week may be declined as stale. To appeal a contentious topic restriction or other enforcement decision, please create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}.

Appeals and administrator modifications of contentious topics restrictions

The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications of contentious topic restrictions state the following:

All contentious topic restrictions (and logged warnings) may be appealed. Only the restricted editor may appeal an editor restriction. Any editor may appeal a page restriction.

The appeal process has three possible stages. An editor appealing a restriction may:

ask the administrator who first made the contentious topic restrictions (the "enforcing administrator") to reconsider their original decision;
request review at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") or at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN"); and
submit a request for amendment ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email.

Appeals submitted at AE or AN must be submitted using the applicable template.

A rough consensus of administrators at AE or editors at AN may specify a period of up to one year during which no appeals (other than an appeal to ARCA) may be submitted.

Changing or revoking a contentious topic restriction

An administrator may only modify or revoke a contentious topic restriction if a formal appeal is successful or if one of the following exceptions applies:

The administrator who originally imposed the contentious topic restriction (the "enforcing administrator") affirmatively consents to the change, or is no longer an administrator; or
The contentious topic restriction was imposed (or last renewed) more than a year ago and:
- the restriction was imposed by a single administrator, or
- the restriction was an indefinite block.

A formal appeal is successful only if one of the following agrees with revoking or changing the contentious topic restriction:

a clear consensus of uninvolved administrators at AE,
a clear consensus of uninvolved editors at AN,
a majority of the Arbitration Committee, acting through a motion at ARCA.

Any administrator who revokes or changes a contentious topic restriction out of process (i.e. without the above conditions being met) may, at the discretion of the Arbitration Committee, be desysopped.

Standard of review
On community review

Uninvolved administrators at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") and uninvolved editors at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN") should revoke or modify a contentious topic restriction on appeal if:

the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process),
the action was not reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption when first imposed, or
the action is no longer reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption.

On Arbitration Committee review

Arbitrators hearing an appeal at a request for amendment ("ARCA") will generally overturn a contentious topic restriction only if:

the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process),
the action represents an unreasonable exercise of administrative enforcement discretion, or
compelling circumstances warrant the full Committee's action.

The administrator may indicate consent at any time before, during, or after imposition of the restriction.
This criterion does not apply if the original action was imposed as a result of rough consensus at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard, as there would be no single enforcing administrator.

Appeals and administrator modifications of non-contentious topics sanctions

The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications and appeals state:

Appeals by sanctioned editors

Appeals may be made only by the editor under sanction and only for a currently active sanction. Requests for modification of page restrictions may be made by any editor. The process has three possible stages (see "Important notes" below). The editor may:

ask the enforcing administrator to reconsider their original decision;
request review at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") or at the administrators’ noticeboard ("AN"); and
submit a request for amendment at the amendment requests page ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email through Special:EmailUser/Arbitration Committee (or, if email access is revoked, to arbcom-enwikimedia.org).

Modifications by administrators

No administrator may modify or remove a sanction placed by another administrator without:

the explicit prior affirmative consent of the enforcing administrator; or
prior affirmative agreement for the modification at (a) AE or (b) AN or (c) ARCA (see "Important notes" below).

Administrators modifying sanctions out of process may at the discretion of the committee be desysopped.

Nothing in this section prevents an administrator from replacing an existing sanction issued by another administrator with a new sanction if fresh misconduct has taken place after the existing sanction was applied.

Administrators are free to modify sanctions placed by former administrators – that is, editors who do not have the administrator permission enabled (due to a temporary or permanent relinquishment or desysop) – without regard to the requirements of this section. If an administrator modifies a sanction placed by a former administrator, the administrator who made the modification becomes the "enforcing administrator". If a former administrator regains the tools, the provisions of this section again apply to their unmodified enforcement actions.

Important notes:

For a request to succeed, either

(i) the clear and substantial consensus of (a) uninvolved administrators at AE or (b) uninvolved editors at AN or

(ii) a passing motion of arbitrators at ARCA

is required. If consensus at AE or AN is unclear, the status quo prevails.

While asking the enforcing administrator and seeking reviews at AN or AE are not mandatory prior to seeking a decision from the committee, once the committee has reviewed a request, further substantive review at any forum is barred. The sole exception is editors under an active sanction who may still request an easing or removal of the sanction on the grounds that said sanction is no longer needed, but such requests may only be made once every six months, or whatever longer period the committee may specify.
These provisions apply only to contentious topic restrictions placed by administrators and to blocks placed by administrators to enforce arbitration case decisions. They do not apply to sanctions directly authorized by the committee, and enacted either by arbitrators or by arbitration clerks, or to special functionary blocks of whatever nature.
All actions designated as arbitration enforcement actions, including those alleged to be out of process or against existing policy, must first be appealed following arbitration enforcement procedures to establish if such enforcement is inappropriate before the action may be reversed or formally discussed at another venue.

Information for administrators processing requests

Thank you for participating in this area. AE works best if there are a variety of admins bringing their expertise to each case. There is no expectation to comment on every case, and the Arbitration Committee (ArbCom) thanks all admins for whatever time they can give.

A couple of reminders:

Before commenting, please familiarise yourself with the referenced ArbCom case. Please also read all the evidence (including diffs) presented in the AE request.
When a request widens to include editors beyond the initial request, these editors must be notified and the notifications recorded in the same way as for the initial editor against whom sanctions were requested. Where some part of the outcome is clear, a partial close may be implemented and noted as "Result concerning X".
Enforcement measures in arbitration cases should be construed liberally to protect Misplaced Pages and keep it running efficiently. Some of the behaviour described in an enforcement request might not be restricted by ArbCom. However, it may violate other Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines; you may use administrative discretion to resolve it.
More than one side in a dispute may have ArbCom conduct rulings applicable to them. Please ensure these are investigated.

Closing a thread:

Once an issue is resolved, enclose it between {{hat}} and {{hab}} tags. A bot should archive it in 7 days.
Please consider referring the case to ARCA if the outcome is a recommendation to do so or the issue regards administrator conduct.
You can use the templates {{uw-aeblock}} (for blocks) or {{AE sanction}} (for other contentious topic restrictions) to give notice of sanctions on user talk pages.
Please log sanctions in the Arbitration enforcement log.

Thanks again for helping. If you have any questions, please post on the talk page.

Arbitration enforcement archives

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Arbitration enforcement action appeal by User:Jaqeli

Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

Appealing user: Jaqeli (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – Jaqeli 07:17, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Sanction being appealed

Administrator imposing the sanction: Sandstein (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Notification of that administrator: diff

Statement by Jaqeli

During this period of time I've contributed to some very good articles and created some quality ones. I can say I am really an experienced Wikipedian and I can assure you no past mistakes will take place anymore. My current TBAN though stops me to create many good Georgian articles because many of them have some kind of Armenian relations as well because of Georgian-Armenian relations are huge and deep and they count several millennia. I recognize my past mistakes of edit-warring and being a bit non-cooperative with Armenian Wikipedians which I no more will be like if you give me a chance again by lifting my current TBAN. I will engage with Armenian users and will cooperate in a calm manner in the interests of English Misplaced Pages. I believe having a Georgian Wikipedian like me also would greatly contribute as well. I by all means learned on my mistakes and I am ready to get back. I recognize all my past mistakes and now I am more aware how interacting with everyone is important. I will be cooperative and open for the common good of EnWiki. I have more than 20,000 edits, I am an experienced user registered back in 2011, I've made many contributions to English Misplaced Pages, I've made Good Articles, written many articles, expanded many etc. I have years of experience on English Misplaced Pages and I deserve a second chance and just because many Georgian articles can have some marginal Armenian connections I should be able to edit them as now my TBAN stops me in my contribution. There can be new information, pictures, charts, maps, sources etc. that can be added and because of my TBAN I cannot do so. I promise I will work with Armenian users and will be cooperative in every way possible. Right now because of my TBAN I cannot work on any major Georgian article because many may have marginal and minor Armenian connections for historical reasons as we are long-time neighbors. There's many I can do to contribute as I've done in the past. Admin Sandstein declined my appeal and I am bringing this appeal to other Admins who I hope will understand my request to cancel and lift this ban from me. I can do many good for the English Misplaced Pages as I've done in the past and me as a Georgian Wikipedian which aren't that many here can be of a great help in Georgia-related articles. I hope those other Admins who know me or remember me would give me one last chance and cancel this TBAN from me. Thank you. Jaqeli 07:17, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

@Sandstein: I understand you are an experienced admin and you no more trust users like me especially when you see my past but please be assured that if this last chance is given I will definitely keep my word. If I do not keep my word I understand the fact that I will be banned forever and I will quit wikipedia. Please also see Georgian inscriptions list as I've told you in your TP I am working on those articles and created some in these days. You rightfully thought I disrupted the page but please be sure it is not the case. I've just made it a disambig page as there are many Georgian inscriptions to be added in the future which I will do certainly as I will work on them. @OccultZone: These 4 years or so I am mostly contributing to Georgia-related articles and because of my TBAN it is literally impossible for me to contribute into any major Georgia-related articles and that is why my activity was and is very low. @Richwales: I have a great respect for you as an admin and I fully understand that if this last chance is given to me I will no more screw with it and will keep my word. I will take any disputes to dispute resolution page and that will be the only way to handle such issues out. If I don't follow my word you personally can ban me from Misplaced Pages forever. @My very best wishes: I got this TBAN because of my aggressive and noncooperative attitude towards the origin section of Georgian scripts which I do recognize as a mistake which I made in the past. There is no other problems with script-related ones with me. I've made huge contributions and made GAs like script-related Georgian scripts article for example. There will be no problems from my side anymore as I fully understand the result that this can be my last chance so I will take any disputes to dispute resolution page for solving such issues that got my TBAN'd. So there is no reason to keep me out from script-related articles as such. Please also see the part concerning to Georgian inscriptions in the part of my reply to Admin Sandstein. @Kober: Thank you. I look forward working with you again and thanks for your support. Jaqeli 11:40, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

@HJ Mitchell: I fully agree. Jaqeli 12:50, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

@Richwales: The point of my appeal here is not the modification of my current TBAN but I want it to be lifted and canceled from me entirely. I don't want to have any restrictions editing Misplaced Pages. As I've said per your suggestion I'd take any disputes to dispute resolution page and I will no more edit war at all and if I won't keep my word for it I will be banned forever. I want to be entirely TBAN-free what will give me a chance to edit any article I will want to starting from Georgian language, scripts, inscriptions, archaeology, history, culture, religion etc. Jaqeli 22:02, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

@Starship.paint: @My very best wishes: Thanks for your support. Jaqeli 22:19, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

@Newyorkbrad: @Callanecc: There are lots of articles I'd edit so how can I list all of them. For example I'd edit Georgian scripts Asomtavruli, Nuskhuri, Mkhedruli sections to bring up new data and sources if I will have. I'd like to participate on its talk page as well because mostly all the concerns or questions on TP there are left unanswered and native Georgian like me can be of a huge help for Wiki itself. Another example can be Rhadamistus. I want to rewrite the article again to meet the GA status standards. I've made lots of contributions there as well though some more work should be done. Another can be Pharasmanes II of Iberia or David IV of Georgia. If I just wanted to replace or add a new picture there I can be banned again and that's just because these monarchs had Armenian wifes. There are many many articles and cannot really list them all here I hope you understand that. I just want to be TBAN-free and don't want to have any restrictions on me. Again as Richwales said, I do understand that if I will get back to edit-warring as I did in the past I will be banned forever from this site. Jaqeli 16:38, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

@Callanecc: Right now I'd like to edit: Georgian scripts, Rhadamistus, Pharnavaz I of Iberia and Pharasmanes II of Iberia. Jaqeli 10:26, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

@Richwales: I am not going to make any controversial edits to those articles. But if there will be any dispute I will bring it to the TP of the articles and will try to handle the problem out with other editors in a calm and cooperative manner. Please be sure that you won't ever see me edit warring. I will not edit war for sure. Jaqeli 17:38, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Sandstein

I recommend declining the appeal. I already lifted the ban once and had to reinstate it because of recurring problems. I am not convinced that Jaqeli can now competently edit in controversial topic areas. Please also refer to the discussion on my talk page about Jaqeli's prior appeal to me. Sandstein 08:16, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

After looking at the two AE requests that resulted in the ban, they do seem to have the issue of language and writing in common. So I guess if the ban is to be modified, it could be rephrased to cover "the past and present languages and alphabets used in Armenia or Azerbaijan". But since Jaqeli still hasn't told us which specific article the ban prevents them from editing, and given that just a look at their block log doesn't bode well for their future as an editor, I'm not optimistic that loosening the ban will benefit the project. Sandstein 13:19, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

I've been asked to comment on Jaqeli's intentions to edit four articles. My general approach is that I dislike micromanaging sanctions; either we trust somebody to work competently in a controversial topic or we don't. In this case, I think the editor's past record indicates that we probably shouldn't, but if other admins here believe it's worth a try then they're welcome to adjust the sanction however they deem appropriate. Sandstein 21:24, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by OccultZone

I have got Sandstein's UTP on my watchlist, I was in touch with the appeal.

Apart from the points that Sandstein has noted, I would say that the activity level of Jaqeli has gradually decreased since the reinstatement of topic ban and he has made about 291 edits since August 8, 2014. For showing that he can edit constructively and collaboratively in different areas, I believe that more activity is required. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 07:55, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

The proposal of Richwales looks promising and Jaqeli has agreed to it. That might be an option. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 11:42, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Kober

I've been in dispute with User:Jaqeli over certain areas of Georgia-related topics, but, in my case, he has been cooperative and, in fact, much helpful. Given the quality work he has done for Misplaced Pages, I would support lifting a topic ban and giving him the last chance to continue his full-time activity. --Kober 15:31, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Richwales

I've interacted with Jaqeli numerous times in the past. I'm not going to take a position, one way or the other, as to whether he deserves (or can handle) a relaxation or lifting of his current topic ban; however, I do think it's worth noting that his current ban effectively keeps him out of virtually all Georgia-related articles (since connections between Georgian and Armenian topics are pervasive). Since Jaqeli's primary (exclusive?) interest is in topics related to his home country of Georgia, it's not surprising to me at all that he has done very little editing here since his topic ban was imposed (for fear of being seen to have violated the ban if nothing else), so I don't think his low activity should be held against him. I am concerned about Jaqeli's past misbehaviour regarding edit warring, blocks, etc., and I do feel that if the community decides to give him one more chance, it should be made extremely clear to him that this will absolutely be his last chance — he must take any disputes promptly to accepted dispute resolution procedures and accept resolution outcomes gracefully, and he must accept that any future sanctions will almost certainly take the form of an indefinite / permanent site ban. — Rich wales (no relation to Jimbo) 17:08, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

I'm not quite sure how a topic ban on the past and present languages used in Armenia or Azerbaijan would affect things here. Alphabets, yes, but languages? AFAIK, no one seriously argues that the Georgian language is related to Armenian or Azeri — but forbidding Jaqeli to edit in any article that mentions the languages of Georgia's geographical neighbours seems a bit much. @Sandstein: are there some specific reasons you had in mind for drawing the language issue (as opposed to the alphabet/script issue) into your proposal for a revised topic ban?

And @Jaqeli: I think it would be helpful for people here if you could list a few articles which you believe you could make constructive contributions to, but which you are unable or unwilling to touch for fear of being seen to have violated your current topic ban. Since we are discussing your current ban, BTW, it is my understanding that mentioning articles in this manner, in this specific forum, and possibly also including very brief and neutral explanations of why you believe working on a given article might be seen as a topic ban violation, would not in and of itself constitute a violation of your current ban. — Rich wales (no relation to Jimbo) 21:13, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

@Jaqeli: Thanks for your feedback regarding which articles you would like to work on. Some people (myself possibly included) may be worried that if you go back to working at Georgian scripts or Pharnavaz I of Iberia, you may get entangled once again in the never-ending disputes over the origin of the Georgian alphabet which got you into so much trouble in the past. If you do get permission to work on articles such as these, how will you avoid those earlier problems? — Rich wales (no relation to Jimbo) 17:22, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

I have no further objections or reservations to allowing Jaqeli to try his hand at responsibly editing the four articles named by Callanecc. I'm willing to take Jaqeli at his word that he won't make any more disruptive edits and will collaborate in good faith if any content disputes do arise. I'm also assuming that Jaqeli has thoroughly read and absorbed WP:HANG, and that if he gets into any more trouble from this point on, it will be clear that he's completely exhausted the community's patience and should expect a total, indefinite site ban which is unlikely to be lifted at any future time for any reason. — Rich wales (no relation to Jimbo) 08:30, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Kansas Bear

Having edited in the Caucasus region, I have "interacted" with Jaqeli in a limited capacity. I believe he does do good work, however due to Georgia's location, the Caucasus is not an easy area to edit. I think, in the long run, Richwales idea would be best for Jaqeli. --Kansas Bear (talk) 22:27, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Jaqeli

After quickly looking at this, I think this topic ban could at least be changed and narrowed by limiting it to the subjects related to Caucasian alphabets. I think this is main POV of Jaqeli. Then his strange editing here discussed with Sandstein would be covered by the new restriction, but allowed him editing any Georgia-related subjects not related to the alphabets. In addition, banning someone from Georgian subjects on the basis of Armenia-Azerbaijan sanctions (both are different countries) might be a little questionable. My very best wishes (talk) 23:53, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

That ^ sounds reasonable. Jaqeli seems very aware that this is the last chance, let's give it to him. starship.paint ~ ¡Olé! 11:47, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

I think the suggestion by Sandstein it could be rephrased to cover "the past and present languages and alphabets used in Armenia or Azerbaijan" is reasonable. As about the future behavior by Jaqeli, I never interacted with this user before and therefore can not predict his behavior. The suggestion by Richwales also seem reasonable. I would suggest to give Jaqueli another chance. My very best wishes (talk) 17:33, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Result of the appeal by Jaqeli

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

Richwales' proposed loosening seems worth a try. @Jaqeli: are you willing to agree to it? I'd like to hear from other admins, though, and I wonder if you have any thoughts on the suggestion, Sandstein. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 12:12, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
Jaqeli should kindly explain in a little more detail what articles he would edit if allowed to. Subject to a reasonable listing, I agree with Sandstein that the topic-ban should not be lifted in toto, but I also agree it might be possible to modify it in a way that would allow Jaqueli to edit within his subject-matter expertise without renewed problems. When I was an arbitrator deciding "X vs. Y" ethnic/nationalist dispute cases, I would often think and write that many of the people from (or siding with) place X who were getting into trouble on the "X vs. Y" articles, could be very good, knowledgeable contributions if they would focus only on X and forget about Y. That might be the case here. Newyorkbrad (talk) 22:43, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
I'd probably be inclined to go with Richwales's proposed loosening but only allow them to edit a set of specific articles for a few months so we can start to see how they'd operate. If that works with no issues then I'm happy to go with Richwales's wording on the full lot, if there are issues we'd need to look at whether to just go back to indef TBAN or a long block. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 23:36, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
- @Jaqeli: Just give us 5-10 that you'd like to edit now, it's just a trial basis to see how you go, so just any you would like to work on first. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 01:57, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
Any positive/negative comments to Jaqeli being given an exemption to edit Georgian scripts, Rhadamistus, Pharnavaz I of Iberia and Pharasmanes II of Iberia for 3 months, at which stage (around then) they should appeal to AE again? Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 01:50, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
- Seems reasonable to me. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:25, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Gerda Arendt

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Gerda Arendt

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Francis Schonken (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 09:58, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: Gerda Arendt (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Infoboxes#Gerda Arendt restricted : "Gerda Arendt is indefinitely restricted from: (...) making more than two comments in discussing the inclusion or exclusion of an infobox on a given article..."

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

(all diffs are edits by Gerda Arendt:)

19:39, 6 April 2014 (edit summary: "...second and last contribution to this discussion") – "...That I would answer the "infobox yes or no" question with "yes, why not?" is known enough..." (at Talk:Frédéric Chopin)
13:24, 2 February 2015 adding "| {{diff|Frédéric Chopin|622753180|622751386|Chopin}} || style="background: red" | person || 25 Aug" to Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Quality Article Improvement/Infobox#Discussions and reverts
07:46, 15 February 2015 "Support infobox (repeating from 2014, I am restricted to not make a further comment in the matter)" (at Talk:Frédéric Chopin#Discuss infobox yes or no)
09:38, 9 March 2015 – changing "| {{diff|Frédéric Chopin|622753180|622751386|Chopin}} || person || 25 Aug" to "| {{diff|Frédéric Chopin|622753180|622751386|Chopin}} || person || style="background: red" | 25 Aug" (emphasis added) at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Quality Article Improvement/Infobox#Discussions and reverts

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

Date Explanation
Date Explanation

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Mentioned by name in the Arbitration Committee's Final Decision linked to above.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Discussed the inclusion of the infobox in the Frédéric Chopin article three or four times, on at least two talk pages. I have brought to Gerda's attention before (e.g. " ... please stop discussing individual article's infobox inclusions on various pages not directly connected to the article's talk page (e.g. here) as it are "comments in discussing the inclusion or exclusion of an infobox on a given article" per Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Infoboxes#Gerda Arendt restricted. I think I explained this before." ) that probably the discussions *on individual articles* at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Quality Article Improvement/Infobox (e.g. ) are to be seen as separate counts in the ArbCom remedy cited above, and am now submitting it here to let others decide.

inserted example of bringing this to Gerda's attention before. --Francis Schonken (talk) 10:39, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

--Francis Schonken (talk) 10:04, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Discussion concerning Gerda Arendt

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Gerda Arendt

Wir danken dir, Gott, wir danken dir, BWV 29, GA as of today, thank you, Dr. Blofeld, but only 14 of 31 GAs in Classical compositions are by me ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:55, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

@SchroCat: I repeat my simple request of yesterday, which was not about infoboxes:

I just welcomed a new user who seems to come from a Japanese background. I recommend that you address such people on their talk page in very simple English because they may have no idea that article history and edit summaries even exist. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Please go to the new user's talk and explain why you reverted their third edit in this Misplaced Pages. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:46, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

The number of emails I found in my archive as sent to SchroCat is 2. I am willing to publish them completely with the exception of one too personal line about another editor. Quoting from the first, sent 4 March 2015 in response to one from him:

As you know I am all for infoboxes but don't feel guilty of ever having "forced" one, and certainly not in "all articles". That myth is perpetuated, sadly so. What can we do?

What can we do? I can see now how pointy my second email was because the subject was "laugh". I should have known that one has to stay seriuz in infobox matters. I envy a bit people who can say: I've never taken part in the infobox wars. The not taking part in them is one of my favorite parts of Misplaced Pages - I feel like the nurse on the battleground and will not leave ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:21, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

@T. Canens: You brought up a very interesting question: what the restriction is meant to be. I confess that I have lived with it for a while now, and generally find it helpful to walk away after two comments (example pictured), but why I was restricted I still don't know and stopped asking. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:35, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Andy Mabbett

The 2 February and 9 March edits are part of a log Gerda maintains. They are not part of a discussion.
It would be stretching a point to suggest that the edits made on 6 April 2014 and over ten months later on 15 February 2015 are part of the same discussion
The above is especially true when the April 2014 discussion was archived in October 2014.

We saw in the recent review of the infobox case how some editors use existing sanctions to harass the affected editors. Is this another case of the same thing? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:52, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Postscript: The 15 March edit consists solely of Gerda adding style="background: red" to change the background colour of a table cell, and updating a time stamp of not the time of her edit Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:36, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Re "Main editors": It is stated here, in relation to debates about whether an article should include an infobox, that ""ArbCom has ruled... that editors should defer to those who created and developed the article.". I find such an assertion to be bogus, but perhaps that impression has in the past been given? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:37, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by SchroCat

I have had reason to ask Gerda to refrain from commenting on my talk page recently (and to stop emailing me about IBs.) While Chopin may or may not be a valid matter, the three comments in Talk:Laurence Olivier#Infobox (, and ) are a breach. Although I don't think the related comment on my talk page is relevant, that on Ian Rose's page may be a fourth. I haven't done a search of the user's edit history to see if there are any further comments elsewhere.

In relation to the recent William Burges discussion, although Gerda kept to two comments on the talk page ( and ), this third comment is about the IB, and is borderline (or underhand) canvassing. This (fourth) is also about the Burges IB, as is this (fifth) and this (sixth). To crown it all, and where I think she really has overstepped the mark into borderline harassment, I was not happy to receive an email from her trying to discuss the Burges IB.

In relation to a different IB matter, I recieved this (which is about a user who added an infobox that I removed), and an email containing a rather pointy and incorrect message, again about infoboxes. As you can see from the thread on my talk page, I have had to ask Gerda not to post on my talk page, or email me about IBs (although why I should have to I really don't know).

I think there is enough here that ArbCom should look a little more closely about this user's interaction with regard to infobox discussions.– SchroCat (talk) 15:50, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

@Cailil, we will have to disagree about the Burges comments, particularly the fact that they are all soft canvassing. The comment to Graham Beards (who opposed an IB) is an extension of the conversation, however you try and cut it and that is before you take into account the emails to me about two separate IBs. - SchroCat (talk) 18:57, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

@Rich Farmbrough, I hope you have some evidence to back up your rather tawdry accusation below? I look froward (with neither hope, nor expectation) in seeing you strike out the slur (and you managed to avoid the bit that half the reply was all about the inclusion of the IB, her third in that thread) before continuing the matter on Ian Rose's talk page. As to it being a "direct allegation of WP:OWN", that is laughable, as can be seen from the context. - SchroCat (talk) 08:57, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

@Cailil, "does not give others licence to goad them": as per my comment above, please provide proof that is the case, or strike. You too have also managed to avoid that half the reply (on her third comment in the thread was all about the inclusion of the IB, which is in breach of the restrictions. There is a singular lack of GF here, especially as we are discussin a user who has gamed the restrictions upon them, and has turned to harassment by email and on talk pages to continue their discussions. This is not a fit or appropriate way for an editor under restriction to behave. - SchroCat (talk) 10:40, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

"You and Ian Rose made remarks about an article's "Main editors" as an appeal to authority and as a means of excluding Gerda Arendt's point of view on the infoboxes": a deeply, deeply flawed view of the thread;

"You accused Gerda Arendt of WP:OWNERSHIP". Utter balls, as can be seen from the context;
I'm glad you've mentioned the emails: you've been happy to act as judge jury and executioner without the evidence in front of you and with a rather peculiar take on the harrassment, gaming and canvassing that has been going on. I will indeed take it directly to one of the Arbs: I suspect they will be more level headed than you have been. - SchroCat (talk) 12:32, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Rich Farmbrough

Two of the Olivier comments are not about the inclusion or exclusion of that infobox at all, but the somewhat odd premise being promoted that the decision is up to the "main editors" of the article. The last one, be it noted, is in response to a direct allegation of WP:OWN by ShroCat.

It is disappointing to see this enforcement request being brought by Frances on clearly spurious grounds. It is also disappointing to see SchroCat's statement including the Olivier diffs. Making WP:OWN (or any other) accusations against an editor you know cannot respond, is poor form. If the intent was to bait Gerda into a response it is even worse.

All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 23:17, 9 March 2015 (UTC).

Statement by Ritchie333

Notwithstanding Gerda's "go ahead punk, make my day" remark, the three comments in a row were made over a week ago and the debate came to a natural end. There doesn't seem to be anything that requires actively enforcing. Ritchie333 23:29, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Collect

Try as I might, I see no conceivable violation of her restriction. Even counting a !vote as being a "comment" which I find a tad iffy. Calling a font-colour change a "comment" is not impressive. Collect (talk) 13:37, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Ched

I am glad to see that "boomerang" has been mentioned. I've always wondered how Arbcom managed to restrict 2 editors on the pro-infobox side, and yet only remind those removing them. Especially given that Gerda had never been blocked, and multiple members of the exclusive "composer" group have multiple blocks for edit warring. In fact, about the only "warnings" I can recall before the 2013 case involved editors removing infoboxes with "do not revert MY edit". Now I have no doubt that many of said composer group would like nothing better than to be rid of Gerda and the scandalous idea of having an infobox in any of "their" articles, but I pesky old WP:Local consensus thing has been a stumbling block in so many efforts. The (very) recent efforts to remove Pigsonthewing from all things infobox resulted in there actually being fewer restrictions in his particular case.

I know that Gerda won't "appeal" the 2013 case, so I'll skip that paragraph.

The hounding and harassment that has come from a few select members of that composer group does indeed need to be considered though. And while I'm content to sit up here, I ask the reviewing admins to consider this. — Ched : ? 21:59, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Atsme

I see no evidence that indicates Gerda is in violation. I agree with a lot of what Ched described, although I have not researched the history to that extent. However, based on what was presented here, my conclusion is zilch - nada - and I don't think there is anything I've overlooked. Atsme☯ 00:06, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Result concerning Gerda Arendt

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

Looking at the evidence presented here there is no case to answer. The diffs presented show 2 comments and Gerda Arendt's awareness of their restriction. I note this diff by Francis Schonken where they closed the discussion (with what reads like a !supervote) they claim that Gerda Arendt contributed twice too, and then opened this thread. These actions make this request look like Francis Schonken is trying to remove Gerda Arendt from a content dispute via Arbitration Enforcement. The whole situation may be worth looking at but the proximate matter of Gerda Arendt breaking their two comment limit is a non-issue with the current evidence--Cailil 12:51, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

@SchroCat: The William Burges comments are also not actionable IMHO. Gerda Arendt is restricted from discussing the inclusion/exclusion of infoboxes not from discussing how they are treated in those discussions in semi-whisical threads on user talk pages (which this is) or discussing the boxes generally. What they cannot keep posting about is inclusion/removal. That said I don't think the behaviour in the diffs you're presented is eitehr positive or constructive and Gerda Arendt certainly is line-stepping here but alone these are not actionable. ~~The Olivier diffs however do change the complexion of that, and significantly.~~ I'd like some more sysops to comment before I go further here--Cailil 18:18, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

On further thought I don't believe the Olivier diffs are actionable - I do think as Rich notes above that there is significant "poking" going on here and frankly I'm more concerned about that than I am about this 3 non-issues. Just because a user is subject to an ArbCom ban does not give others licence to goad them. Again I'd like to see other sysops commenting but my inclination is to close without action--Cailil 10:36, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

SchroCat: WP:ARE is not a debate. You and Ian Rose made remarks about an article's "Main editors" as an appeal to authority and as a means of excluding Gerda Arendt's point of view on the infoboxes. Gerda Arendt's comments are about that conduct towards them not the boxes per se. Your remark to Gerda Arendt directly before the diff you suggest as their 3rd comment is quite inappropriate in the context of this enforcement request. You accused Gerda Arendt of WP:OWNERSHIP while being equally guilty of the same rhetoric yourself (which BTW looks to me like stewardship rather than ownership from both Ian and Gerda Arendt) and then want them punished for responding to that accusation. You also are crying out about a lack of AGF while failing to shouw it yourself, repeatedly here in this discussion. Now, I am quite happy to close this immediately with no action against Gerda Arendt and a WP:Boomerang for yourself and Francis Schonken if you want to keep digging.
WRT emails - I suggest you submit evidence in private to an Arbitrator regarding those. Bandying about accusations of misconduct without hard evidence could be seen to fall under WP:ASPERSIONS. Furthermore I will advise you strongly that if your hands are equally unclean, i.e if those emails are about conduct rather than about inclusion/removal of infoboxes then you are ill advised to bring them up--Cailil 12:15, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

I agree with you completely, Cailil. This looks like a vexatious request and, combined with the supervote closure, looks like an attempt to use AE as a weapon to eliminate an opponent. It's the sort of thing the used to happen a awful lot in the Israel-Palestine topic area until we started sanctioning people for it. It's also worth noting that ArbCom recently considered authorising discretionary sanctions on infobox disputes; the proposal didn't pass for various reasons, but most of the arbs seemed to agree that there was still disruptive behaviour going on in relation to infoboxes. Thus I endorse some sort of boomerang action against the filer. Procedural note: I've recused in previous infobox-related AE requests against Pigsonthewing due to an off-wiki friendship; this is the first request I've seen against another party and I do not believe I am involved with respect to Gerda or infoboxes generally. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:38, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
I also don't see anything actionable here. We may have a diff or two that are open to interpretation in regard to their status as evidence of a topic ban violation, but we should err on the side of caution (i.e., good faith). I fully accept SchroCat's good faith in this matter, but it's clear that Francis Schonken, who has been in more than one disagreement with Gerda and has exhibited various types of battleground tendencies, saw an opportunity to peel a little apple, as the Dutch might say, with Gerda. This ought to be closed and slammed shut, and I am not opposed to at the least a stern warning for Francis Schonken. I'll do a disclaimer too: I don't care for infoboxes, and I know and have worked with every single editor in this thread, including Gerda, and a million other editors--plus, I have warned Francis Schonken for disruptive behavior in December of last year. FWIW. Drmies (talk) 14:59, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Right so, my proposed wording is: "Closed with no action against User:Gerda Arendt, but User:Francis Schonken is warned for making a vexatious filing at WP:AE about Gerda Arendt and given a final warning to refrain from further battleground behaviour in the topic area covered by the Infoxboxes RfAr ruling." If there are no substantive objections from other sysops then I'll close with this wording after 24 hours.
Although I'm not proposing action here against SchroCat, frankly I am very disappointed in their conduct on this board clamouring for punishment of GA with such an obvious non-issue (and then raising 3 further non-issues). They would be well advised not to continue in this vein. That said if there have been inappropriate emails sent to them (and for various reasons we cannot be privy to them here on a public board) I fully endorse SchroCat having that kind of conduct reviewed in private--Cailil 21:31, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

I'm rather concerned about the reading of the two-comment restriction adopted here. The restriction is meant to be a clear-cut, bright-line one, and I don't think fine parsing about whether a comment is going to a subsidiary issue or the main issue in a discussion is helpful. All three of the Olivier comments are related to the primary subject of the discussion - i.e. whether the article should have an infobox - and made in the course of that discussion. That should be more than enough to bring them inside the scope of the restriction. Now, I can see taking no enforcement action as the edits are somewhat stale, but I disagree with Cailil and think they are a violation of the restriction. T. Canens (talk) 04:22, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Hi Timotheus Canens, I had a similar view of the Olivier comments on my first reading, but on reflection I did, and still do, think it's extremely problematic for SchroCat to goad GA into a third comment with an accusation of WP:OWNERSHIP and then cry "foul" - that's the definition of "unclean hands". And on balance I can't in good conscience ignore that. In this context would it be best to issue a reminder to GA that, as you put it their 2 comment restriction is "a clear-cut, bright-line" rule. And that further actions like those at the Olivier article will be sanctioned? However, if we do that IMHO we need to deal with SchroCat's action there too - again a reminder might be ok. Do you have any views on the boomerang against the filer?--Cailil 15:57, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Appeal to lift topic ban by Ashtul

Request concerning Ashtul

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Ashtul (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 00:23, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: ashtul (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

14:36, 7 March 2015 reverting to earlier version.
14:38, 7 March 2015 added additional source with video interview with Drucker.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

11:17, 20 January 2015 - block for 1RR on Carmel (Israeli settlement).
00:47, 28 January 2015 Topic request after an AE case I filled over Nishidani's POVPUSHING which admin saw as retaliation.
19:42, 1 February 2015 - block over also adding info at Shavei Tzion, my grandparents town, about an IDF memorial and a grave of Acre Prison break fighters and on the relevant article (Nothing current or arguable but geographical locations).

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

HJ Mitchell, have expressed concern about my ability to keep on editing in the I/P conflict area and thus topic banned me. This came as a result of a message I wrote on his talk page about a revert by Nomoskedasticity who without participating in a talk page conversation reverted my edit.

HJ Mitchell have suggested I will focus on proving I am capable of editing in this area so that is what I will do.

Quick background of the current content dispute - Raviv drucker, a reporter have wrote a tweet that lead to articles such as this this this and many more, which accused him of causing multihomicede and war-crime. About a week later, he published this article and a video interview.

Haaretz article starts with the words "I apologize, Naftali, sorry, I was wrong" and ends with "There is no doubt - in 1996 you were there that night, in an important Israeli society. But Lieutenant Bennett, where the hell were you all night since you Israeli politics?"
Nana article states "Drucker highlights that he has no complaints about Bennett as an officer, but only as to the function as a politician. "He was real brave Magellan officer, without cynicism," he says, "but very brave politician, although successful, and that's what is most disappointing. Every node which could tell us the truth, to speak out against things were risking their skin, is Always fear. ""
The video interview says (my rough translation) "this was a tweet I didn't think about enough where I quote a veteran idf officer who spoke of Bennetts behavior that night. I didn't do a investigation or wrote an article" … "Bennett was probably a brave officer, for real, no cynicism, but he is not a brave politician, successful but not brave which is disappointing" and ends with a Question "would you have tweeted it again?" Answer "No. Or I would have tweeted it with other tweets which would explain what is my opinion and what is the information. I think it is irrelevant to leading position and even if Bennetts was stressed at that time and even if it caused a chain of mistakes it doesn't put on him a moral dent, it was a biographic. In that sense, for that tweet to stand by itself isn't right and not wise".

Other editors have claimed it is ostensible apology, irony, antiphrasis (Nishidani) or sarcasm (HJ Mitchell). They are confusing his current criticism over Bennett's behavior as a minister (in the midst of a heated election season) and accusing him of partiably being reposible for the death of over 100 people "radio call for support was "hysterical" and contributed to the outcome that ensued" as stated by the article. Maybe 'recanted' isn't the best word but doesn't WP:BLP require extra care? How many times a person (Drucker) need to say he made a mistake before his word is taken for it?

Among other conducts I have done lately to prevent WP:WARs, I have initiated an RfD (which concluded with consensus in a few days and effected tens of articles) and an RfC in which, so far, my opinion was supported by 3 editors (and 1 sock), describing the edit I contested as "rampant POV-pushing", "tangential POV laden picture does not belong in this article" and "does not belong in an encyclopedia".

An AE case was filed against me over a revert which was NOT contested and was edited back by mistake. Then, when admins weren't convinced (the case was open for over a week) it was turned over charging me with POVPUSHING over text that is supported by the source with the word 'coexist' not appearing in the original but rather 'a bridge between peoples' or 'this is a chance for Israelis and Palestinians to work together, to talk to one another, to trust one another'. If editors don't agree with one word, why remove the whole statemene? TWICE! (Same editors from Carmel article).

So to sum this up, I am engaging in conversation and actively trying to resolve things. I believe my edits are within the borders of NPOV as I try to use NPOV language. If I have failed before, it happens. It is defiantly not a system or even intentional. In the case of Bennett, it should be mention Drucker recanted/apologized/reexplained this original tweet. I believe HJ Mitchell have made an honest mistake with my topic ban and ask for it to be lifted.

References

(sorry for going beyond 500 words. There are many quotation included to save you some time).

Respond to admins

@T. Canens: HJ's topic ban was solely based on the Drucker dispute after he decided to sit out the case which I personally asked him to advise on. Would you please respond directly to that? Is Drucker in his voice saying he was wrong about the original accusations not REQUIRED to be mentioned in such WP:BLP info? Ashtul (talk) 10:19, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Discussion concerning Ashtul

Statement by Ashtul

MLK and Malik, you didn't read the links at the top which refers specifically to HJ Mitchell reasoning of the topic ban and where he suggest I may appeal it. About the AE case itself, HJ Mitchell wrote "I'm going to sit this one out" and then moved to close the case based on what I described above. Everything is in the links. Thanks for allowing me to highlight this point. Ashtul (talk) 07:12, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

HJ Mitchell topic ban in essence is over a content dispute where "the sarcasm in the apology that thread refers to is blindingly obvious" so "that I can quite comfortably comment on it as an admin". As I wrote and demonstrated here in length, HJ Mitchell is wrong. It happens.

If holding ground in case of being right, on topic that is clearly WP:BLP makes one unsuitable to edit on Misplaced Pages then by all means block me all together. Drucker in his voice on the video apologizes but somehow people fail to believe him. The fact he moves right away to attack Bennett's current politics doesn't mean he still think his actions had contributed the the death of 100 people. Ashtul (talk) 21:55, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Beyond My Ken

If I understand the history correctly, this was not a ban placed by HJ Mitchell as the action of an individual admin, it was placed by him as the result of an AE discussion among multiple admins. The ban had a provision for reconsideration after 6 months -- so why is this even being considered now, mere days after the ban was placed? It's clearly not timely. BMK (talk) 01:09, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Malik Shabazz

I agree with Beyond My Ken. This appeal should be declined on procedural grounds. — Malik Shabazz /_Stalk 02:52, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Callanecc

While I'm not technically involved (as I didn't impose the sanction) I'm going to take the careful route and comment here rather than in the result section. While discretionary sanctions are imposed by an individual not by consensus (which is why I could technically comment as uninvolved) I see no reason to overturn the sanction except to say that my reading of the discussion was for a TBAN which expires after six months not an indefinite one, but the sanction is up to the enforcing admin. I would decline the appeal and recommend that they consider appealing again after six months of active editing. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 02:10, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Cptnono

This comment is primarily based on the procedure. The banning administrator initially opted to sit this one out but saw drama on his talk page and pulled the trigger. I understand that Ashtul has not done great at showing an ounce of humility but the problem with his editing is almost all based on drama filled interactions with one other editor. Nish has had his fair share of issues in the past. Ashtul's topic bans were of much longer lengths than previously dealt out in the topic area. Unless there is a case for sockpuppetry (someone else mentioned it previously), the length was primarily out of admins being sick of the drama. I understand that but I also appreciate that Ashtul has brought up decent points before getting railroaded.

I also don't think Nish needs a reprimand or anything, but it would have been cool if he would have stepped back and taen a deep breath before disregarding Ashtul's points.

Just to be open, I'm actively considering opening up a case for community intervention against another editor who has skirted the policies and guidelines for years now. Although a 6 month topic ban would make me feel a little happy inside I know the project would be better if more novel and level-headed solutions were considered. This whole topic area is broken and it is primarily because a handful of editors who have been around for awhile know how to successfully push their POV, buck the system, and screw with people.Cptnono (talk) 05:24, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Ashtul

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

I take a slightly different view from User:Callanecc here. User:HJ Mitchell can clarify for us, but it seems HJ offered User:Ashtul notice that he could appeal his actions imposing the topic ban or he could accept the topic ban and ask for it to be modified after six months. Otherwise, it seems to me, the topic ban stays in place indefinitely. So the request here seems to be an appeal against the imposition of the ban itself. Commenting narrowly on Ashtul and not on any other editor, I would keep the topic ban in place and reject the appeal. Come back after six months and we will revisit it. JodyB_talk 12:19, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
- Procedurally, I have no problem with this appeal. After six months of productive editing in another topic area, I would be happy to re-evaluate the topic ban, but that's not an appeal per se, and if Ashtul wants to contest the topic ban or the grounds for it, then appealing here is appropriate. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 15:01, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
- Given User:HJ Mitchell's comments I see no problem with this appeal. However this discussion followed by this discussion make it clear that the topic ban is appropriate. I would suggest the appellant speak with HJ Mitchell after the 6 month period. I'm happy for HJ Mitchell to continue to monitor this and approve or decline the topic ban at his discretion. JodyB_talk 11:46, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
This appeal is malformed - it uses the request template, not the appeal template - but at this point there's not much point in changing it.
I agree that the six-month time limit before reconsideration doesn't affect our ability to hear an appeal on whether the topic ban should have been imposed in the first place, but I think the topic ban was validly imposed, and I would decline the appeal. T. Canens (talk) 04:50, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

DHeyward

Request concerning DHeyward

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: MarkBernstein (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 22:02, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: DHeyward (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gamergate :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Attack

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

I have no idea

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

should be obvious

Notification:

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

DHeyward takes me to task:

Specious and tendentious actions by MarkBernstein to bring a comment from ARCA to enforcement is beyond the pale

But of course my complaint is neither specious nor tendentious. I made a technical inquiry at ARCA regarding an obscurity in their recent decision, explaining why I needed this clarification and requesting Arbcom to clarify their intent. The response has been a coordinated outpouring of vituperation directed at me and urging my immediate banishment.

DHeyward proceeds to lecture Gamaliel on the history of my topic ban, perhaps forgetting that Gamaliel started this entire sorry episode. I am confident that Gamaliel understands every nook and cranny by now. But DHeyward also understands every nook and cranny, as this last episode was of his contrivance -- carefully planned offsite and also celebrated there.

DHeyward tars me with making a personal attack on Thargor Orlando at Arbitration Enforcement, but of course Arbitration Enforcement concerns enforcement actions against editors. Editorial misbehavior is the essence of complaints at WP:AE; in contrast, the ARCA discussion did not concern editorial behavior of any kind.

DHeyward has, of course, been an avid proponent of WP:CPUSH and WP:FLAT arguments at Gamergate and related pages. His arguments (if these be arguments) here reflect that, and they should be familiar to administrators and indeed to most who are active there. As time is short, I simply allude to them here.

As some argue that my topic ban extends, or should extend, or should immediately be extended, to preclude remedy, I'm filing this without further delay. I apologize to overworked administrators.

Literary sidenote: DHeyward is now all aflutter over a literary allusion on my talk page. It’s Julius Caesar III.1.278-290: “Domestic fury and fierce civil strife...” Relax folks. (and good grief!) MarkBernstein (talk) 22:37, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

I completely endorse Gamaliel’s proposal, provided related proposals I have discussed with Gamaliel and with HJ Mitchell are honored as well, as I am confident they will be.

With regard to offsite planning: I sent two administrators two offsite links to discussions of proposed attacks on my integrity, twelve hours before those attacks appeared for the first time on-wiki. I have also sent a separate forum post, claiming to have been written by a recently banned editor, explaining how to exploit Misplaced Pages policy along these very lines. The current discussion stems from a news story -- one of many recent news stories -- reporting on the way Gamergate supporters have colluded in their use of Misplaced Pages. Individual Wikipedians may regret these news stories and find them embarrassing, but I did not expect to be faulted for mentioning here what reporters throughout the world consider to be thoroughly established. (This issue has clear implications for the efficacy of Gamaliel’s proposal, obviously. I merely draw attention to this so Gamaliel or others may consider whether new policy may be needed to address this when it arises in some future dispute among other parties.)

I'd like to remind people one last time that this is not merely a content dispute about fringe theories or inbox footnotes: real people are being harassed and actual careers are being destroyed while Misplaced Pages is perverted. I have done what I could to stop it; I have been assured that it will be stopped; in the long run, I am confident that sufficient eyes outside Misplaced Pages have been brought to bear on this area of the project that either Misplaced Pages will learn to protect the victims or it will suffer even greater consequences.

I should like few things better, in fact, than to comply with Gamaliel’s excellent suggestion. MarkBernstein (talk) 14:13, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning DHeyward

Statement by DHeyward

Another tendentious and pointy request by MarkBernstein. Considering he has mulitple discussions going on at AE, ANI and ARBCA, I think it's time we need to discuss a site ban for MarkBernstein or at least a long block. --DHeyward (talk) 22:08, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

I'd be interested in seeing any diff of offsite coordination that he accuses me of as I don't participate in any offsite activities regarding Misplaced Pages. Otherwise he's casting aspersions that I know to be false. --DHeyward (talk) 22:11, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

It appears that MarkBernstein is now here to wreak "Havoc" on the community with these filings. That along with his history of WP:NOTHERE and it may be time to show him the door. Literary sidenote, the quote of 'havoc' in Shakespeare only reinforces WP:NOTHERE and WP:BATTLEGROUND, not alleviate it. --DHeyward (talk) 22:24, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Gamaliel Please post where I have done anything you have alleged. To be specific, MarkBernstein has filed 2 AE requests, 1 ARBCA request and 1 ANI request as well as posting to Jimbo's talk page since his topic ban. I am not sure where you are getting the impression that this anything more than a 1 sided barrage of filings and it affects more than just THargor Orlando and me. --DHeyward (talk) 00:10, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Ched I can say without reservation that But DHeyward also understands every nook and cranny, as this last episode was of his contrivance -- carefully planned offsite and also celebrated there. is simply a lie. I don't participate in any offsite activity regarding WP or gamergate or whatever MarkBernstein is alleging. It's not new that these lies have been stated. There is no evidence to bring as they are simply false. MarkBernstein is "my contrivance" is that I posted a diff of comments he made to two uninvolved admins (apparently this is exactly what Gamaliel is requesting but he has indicated he didn't like the result). I didn't highlight any specific quotes in MBs comments but both admins zeroed in on the the offending portion. Both admins found they were unacceptable and one admin gave MB a 90 day topic ban. None of it was offsite. For that, MB has posted at ANI, ARBCA, and two AE requests which is why we are here. --DHeyward (talk) 02:12, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Gamaliel - as I've already been acting in the way you propose and haven't brought any complaints about MarkBernstein to any boards or even discussed it on article talk pages. I brought his comments directly to two uninvolved admins who both agreed they were not civil and both took action. I would not have participated here if I wasn't called to do so but I can agree not to bring any issues to noticeboards as that is what I've already been doing. There is no need for a sanction since the behavior doesn't really exist and it appears this complaint should be closed the same as the one above it. BTW, if you are in possession of "offsite links", please send them. I categorically deny any involvement with any offsite groups that are targeting MarkBernstein or anyone else. --DHeyward (talk) 20:30, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

This AE request is predicated on the one above it which was closed. Not sure how this one is still valid if the other is not. --DHeyward (talk) 22:46, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Gamaliel has invoked a sanction without any evidence that the behavior he is trying to stop ever happened. He cited comments made on this AE request as being problemtic. I ask that he reverse this as MarkBernstein had no standing to bring a complaint. If Gamaliel could cite where I violated anything related to his topic ban, he should do so. The fact is that I brought MB's behavior to two neutral admins even before Gamaliel requested. I didn't discuss it with MarkBernstein or engage him in any way except in arbitrtation space. Please show a problematic encounter where I did something improper. Please note that Bernstein is again at AE where he repeated the comment that led to his topic ban. Is that editor now also subject to a sanction? They did more official filing than I did. There simply is no justification for this. I am happy to abide by Gamaliels request on a gentlemans agreement but having it logged as wrongdoing I will not stand for. Gamaliel's sanction would not change a single thing that I did or what happened to MarkBernstein or the subsequent issues he created for himself and I will be forced to challenge this rather specious argument that the persons named in an AE request are responsible for the filing. EdJohnston is correct. Gamaliel didn't attribute the context of the remarks he cited or the author and he fails to state that the only editor bringing stuff to noticeboards is MarkBernstein. I did not file anything or make comments in article or user space, just here. --DHeyward (talk) 18:39, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Liz I didn't file an AE request for this (or ANI or any other drama board). Why would you endorse a sanction without a single diff? We were dragged here by MarkBernstein who filed an ARBCA, ANI and 2 AE requests. All of Gamaliels quotes are from responding to MB (and not properly attributed or given in context). MB is currently named in a 3rd AE request but Gamaliel hasn't proposed an IBAN for NE Ent. --DHeyward (talk) 00:13, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Also note that moments before he filed an AE against me, he filed one against Thargor Orlando but it was tossed because TBanned editors are not allowed to file AE requests in the topic area. Inexplicably, Gamaliel continued to pursue sanctions (and even wanted sanctions in the other report). --DHeyward (talk) 00:46, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by MONGO

I do not see a personal attack. I see a diff that merely states an observation. A personal attack might be to call someone an asshole or along those lines.--MONGO 22:10, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

One of the worst arbcom closures appears to be manifesting itself as one of the worst decisions I have ever seen at arbitration enforcement. How ridiculous that DHeyward might face a topic ban for merely pointing out a basic observation of fact. It's way past time to site ban Bernstein and if his filing this AE complaint, which is only the latest violation of his own topic ban, is not enough reason to throw this frivolous nonsense in the gutter then all the admins clamoring for a topic ban for DHeyward need to get their heads examined.--MONGO 01:37, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Thargor Orlando

More retaliatory behavior. Topic ban him and extend the ban to seeking sanctions against other editors at this point. Why are we continuing to tolerate this behavior? Thargor Orlando (talk) 22:36, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

@Gamaliel: seconding. I'd love to see the "worse statements" that I've made, having been accused, among other things, as someone being "deployed" by 8chan, As someone who has not even raised a complaint, this seems 100% unsupported by any evidence presented. Thargor Orlando (talk) 00:18, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

@Gamaliel: I would again like to see the evidence you're using against me so I can actually respond to it. Having an opinion on why we're allowing disruption in the subject-space should not be sanctionable, so if I don't know what I've done wrong, there's nothing I can show you that says "I can change," assuming there's anything that needs changing at all. Thargor Orlando (talk) 11:13, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

@Callanecc: What evidence are you basing this on, specifically? Thargor Orlando (talk) 22:45, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

@Callanecc: the issue with the proposed solution is that it sanctions me for some reason that has yet to be expressed with any evidence and doesn't appear to solve any existing problems. I'm not concerned about being topic banned out of any specific article because I'm not violating any rules, but I am concerned about being tarred with a brush due to the continued disruption of someone else. The goal of getting me removed from this situation doesn't seem logical or warranted: Mark will surely be here again because of his behavior (as predicted), so if it's to cut back on reports of his continued and consistent misbehavior, I don't see how sanctioning someone who has never initiated a report about Mark will help or why sanctioning any person pointing out the problems makes sense when you can just as easily cut back on the issue by extending the existing topic ban on MarkBernstein indefinitely, allowing all of us to move on from this. Thargor Orlando (talk) 16:07, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Starship.paint

@Ched: and @Gamaliel: - it appears that you have missed this statement made by MarkBernstein in this very filing. But DHeyward also understands every nook and cranny, as this last episode was of his contrivance -- carefully planned offsite and also celebrated there. This is not the first time, MarkBernstein, without evidence, accuses established editors of colluding offsite. Historical evidence: You would consider this a "mild" statement, Gamaliel? I think this behaviour is worse than anything DHeyward or Thargor Orlando have produced, therefore I question the equal punishments. starship.paint ~ ¡Olé! 01:12, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

@Ched: - thank you. Would you consider it reasonable that given the past behavior in the historical evidence, that I request for MarkBernstein to additionally simply assure us that he will not repeat such behavior in the future? starship.paint ~ ¡Olé! 01:31, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by EvergreenFir

This is becoming tendentious. There is no personal attack. DHeyward wasn't the nicest, but stated his opinion. If a clerk thought it was a personal attack, they could have removed it. Compared to the conduct issues brought up in the GGTF case, for example, DHeyward's comments are downright pleasant. This on top of the previous request are making my lose my good faith in Mark. Dismiss this request. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 05:30, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Noting EdJohnston's comment above that, "The only acceptable reason he could be here at AE on the topic of Gamergate is for clarification or changes in his own ban", I'm starting to think this space is being used as a forum to air GG-related grievances instead of actually addressing violations.EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 05:34, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Tony Sidaway

In view of the kind of conduct problems we're seeing here, I agree with Gamaliel's proposed solution. The involved editors should all concentrate on the editing, and not continue this attempt to conduct a kind of warfare using Misplaced Pages. They've all been asked to drop the stick in the recent past. These continuing incidents, while not necessarily rising to the level we'd normally sanction, have no place on Misplaced Pages.

This proposal goes to the heart of the problems identified in the arbitration case. --TS 13:30, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

NE Ent

Gamaliel solution: +1. NE Ent 23:52, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by GoldenRing

A weighty matter, come behold,
Where editors' futures, bought and sold
By admin edict, ungainsayable
By another, logged and traceable,
Are decided. What great affair
Brings us to this brink? A bare
Recital of another's "wrongs".
For brave DHeyward, danger defying,
Would venture Bernstein's wrath by crying,
"God for Harry, England and St George!"
(A wiser choice of metre might have served)
"These galling goads go far enough!
Too far, these gallant jests! No bluff
Are they. Can arbcom not defend
Itself? Do they not wisely send
Their clerks, as messengers, hither to wend
And blot such stuff, should it offend?
What need has the judge, for counsel learned?
What need, the sword, for an advocate, turned
From cares for his customers sensitive ears?
Why from ARCA, where words so spent
In vain, should we now turn to this,
And thence to ANI, where (bliss!)
He got short shrift. What next? So bold
As to approach, as was foretold,
In form more ancient, the committee?
Be done with this; no more shall he
Darken the doors of arbitration
(Or anywhere else); let he, oblation,
Be poured out. Let the edict go:
MarkBernstein banned! This house of woe,
This abode of wrath shall suffer no more
His indignation, ruthless war
Against the trolls of xchan vile."
Such hopes of peace might bring a smile
To many faces; but not the doctor
(We must take care just how we speak, or
The charge, 'Familiarity!'
Will be our lot. For certainly
None dare dissent, however frantic,
From business standards transatlantic).
The cause is just, the foe is foul;
The means are justified by ends.
A TBAN? Pah! Why should that cow
A one so righteous? Why pretend
That standards ordinary limit
One who such heights attains? For it
Is how to tell the wheat from tares;
Any who disagrees, or dares
To call to question his 'behaviour'
(Apologies, again; the flavour
Of this word is not, for you,
A sweet one; but we must our due
To rhyme and metre duly pay,
For doggerel is the pedant's way)
Is branded Traitor to the Cause,
No matter what outstanding flaws
They may have spotted. And, just so,
To the enforcement board we go.
Where Gen'rous Gamaliel patiently posits
That each is as bad as the other, though opposites
In this dispute. Quite how 'tis so
Is hard to fathom, tricky to know,
When all these actions flow one way.
So here, at last, we have our say:
Let him serve his ninety days,
And on others no longer comment.
If further snipes he makes, he pays;
The ban indef shall be his torment.
Now close this action without via media,
And let us edit the encyclopaedia!

With apologies to DHeyward, for putting one or two words in his mouth, and to the good Doctor for taking one or two out of his. GoldenRing (talk) 00:34, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Strongjam

Topic ban is fine

Interaction ban at least

For all involved

— Strongjam (talk) 00:41, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Rhoark

I think it would be a mistake to proceed on the basis of assuming culpability on the part of anyone except MarkBernstein. All DHeyward or ThargorOrlando stand accused of is calling a spade a spade, whereas the number of times MarkBernstein has cast aspersions or filed frivolous motions and been extended more WP:ROPE defies counting. Rhoark (talk) 00:48, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by EncyclopediaBob

If the intent is to limit interaction between Mark and these users in the Gamergate space, and Mark is already topic banned making interaction impossible, how can we consider topic banning these users "preventative"? Until Mark's ban expires or is reversed there's no benefit to eliminating these editors from the space even if one could find cause. —EncyclopediaBob (talk) 01:44, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Liz

I haven't checked every diff and every aspect of the disputants' arguments. I'm not advocating a topic or site ban for anyone. Just as an editor who is peripherally (marginally!) involved in editing in the Gamergate controversy area, I am tired of continually seeing complaints involving editors working in these articles brought to AE and I'm sure that admins who frequent this forum are tired of seeing them as well. While some cases have had merit and topic bans were justified, the growing number of editors who have received topic bans through proceedings at this board and the increasing reliance on AE as a way to resolve interaction disputes is worrisome. From what I've seen, editors on both sides of this topic have filed complaints here and the only action I would recommend is an admonishment to only bring serious infringements of WP:BLP to this board. I endorse Gamaliel's proposal and suggest it might be a model in cases where disputants file repeated cases against each other. Liz 21:12, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning DHeyward

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

I'm not seeing a WP:NPA personal attack here, so I don't see anything to "enforce". Retaliatory? Perhaps. As far as the "wreak 'Havoc' on the community", I think that might be going a bit far at this time. Perhaps frustrated, but I'm not seeing attempts to deface Jimbo's page or anything. I would suggest that it might be best for MarkB to just proactively avoid all things gamergate or gender related for a bit and focus on some other area of interest. — Ched : ? 23:59, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

@Starship.paint:, your point is well taken - and WP:ASPERSIONS I believe would be the relative link for that. Perhaps MarkB would care to strike that? — Ched : ? 01:17, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

DHeyward, MarkBernstein, Thargor Orlando: It is clear that all three of you are unable to play nicely with each other. All of you incessantly complain about the mild statements of the others while feeling free to make much worse statements about those you are complaining about. The Gamergate decision has received a lot of criticism, but sometimes you do have to clean house and sanction everyone involved. As of now, all three of you are indefinitely topic banned from the subject of each other. Furthermore, none of you can open a new noticeboard thread or enforcement request about any of the others without the permission of an uninvolved administrator. I will log this and post official notices on your user pages later this evening. Gamaliel (talk) 00:06, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

I am going to wait until the morning and the responses of uninvolved parties (I think we've all heard quite enough from the involved parties.) before I officially log these sanctions. With the understanding that you will all play nice until then, I think we can refrain from enforcing them for the moment. (Hint: this would be a good time to explain how your behavior is going to change and to express your willingness to work with other editors who disagree with you.) Gamaliel (talk) 04:43, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

I think that Gamaliel has found the solution most likely to result in an encyclopedia. I support it fully. Chillum 16:18, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

I also agree that Gamaliel's proposal is the best placed to work, and I think/agree that it should be phrased as a topic ban rather than a mutual interaction ban. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 22:37, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
- @Thargor Orlando: Primarily because I don't believe in one-way interaction bans especially when we're limiting the ability of one side to report the other party. Remembering that you won't be TBANed and they will so you'll still be able to edit GamerGate. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 02:15, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Per WP:BANEX Mark Bernstein can't open complaints of Gamergate violations against others so long as he remains topic banned. So this AE complaint by Mark needs no action in that sense. User:Gamaliel intends to place what sounds like a three-way interaction ban between Mark, DHeyward and Thargor Orlando. I have no opinion on whether new bans against DHeyward and Thargor are needed, but if Gamaliel decides to take action, I agree with Callanecc that putting each of them under a Gamergate topic ban would be more logical than an interaction ban. That entails the result that you want, i.e. that none of them could use administrative proceedings against each other relating to Gamergate. EdJohnston (talk) 00:21, 12 March 2015 (UTC).

Before anyone imposes an interaction ban on these three editors, they should list some of the diffs (or write up the rationale) so it is clear why it's being imposed on each party. That might forestall a lengthy appeal process. From what's been presented here I'm unclear on why the new i-ban is actually needed. Mark B. is very indignant about Gamergate matters and he tends to use hot rhetoric. You might expect this could lead his targets to respond. If we are looking at Thargor's post at WP:ARCA that Mark included in a recent complaint, I'm not persuaded that it's severe enough to need a ban from participation on admin boards. EdJohnston (talk) 03:02, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

- The discussion which had already taken place here is the only reason I didn't close this one as well. Re sanctions I was thinking more TBAN from discussing the subject of each other (not from GamerGate) which now having thought about it is the same as a broadly construed IBAN. We could just IBAN them from each other when it regards the GamerGate topic or just from reporting each other regarding GamerGate period. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 01:51, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
(commenting as an uninvolved admin, not as an arbitrator) Based on what I've seen, I think drama here could be reduced with a limited interaction ban on each of them preventing them from interacting with the other two when the context is either (a) GamerGate (broadly construed) or (b) any other area the other party has been topic banned from - i.e. if Dheyward is topic banned from say telecommunications in Bulgaria (chosen by special:random) then neither Thargor nor Mark could interact with Dheyward regarding that topic (but they could interact with each other about it if neither are topic banned), they remain free to interact with each other regarding every other topic (unless this is abused). This to include a prohibition on initiating dispute resolution regarding violations of this or any other restriction any of the three parties is under without the approval of an uninvolved admin, whose decision is final. Thryduulf (talk) 10:33, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

~~There was an editor from Nantucket~~

To clarify where I am coming from here, this is the comment that got Mark Bernstein slapped with a three month topic ban: "It is fascinating that the particular group of editors who recently were so eager to cite Gamergate wikis, weblogs, and Breitbart are reluctant to inform newcomers to this article of this important new essay."

It is snarky, to be sure, but I think it is far less objectionable than the following comments which these users feel free to say about Mark Bernstein with impunity:

"It's further evidence that his contributions are a negative to the article space"
"Mark's own intentions in this clarification is to drag the drama he continually creates within the Gamergate space into the campus rape disputes"
"MarkBernstein doesn't appear to be here to build the encyclopedia."
"Specious and tendentious actions by MarkBernstein"

(Note: MarkBernstein has already agreed to the sanction so I don't feel the need to include excerpts from his statements and juxtapose them with statements from others he has complained about, but for the record I believe that he shares this problem with the other two editors.)

I don't think any of these comments rises to the level of a sanctionable personal attack, but it points to a problem with the current state of these sanctions when users demand sanctions for comments when they feel free to dish out similar or worse comments themselves. We cannot have collaborative editing when one editor feels he is constantly under attack but restrained from making what he sees as reasonable or equivalent comments, and we cannot have collaborative editing when other editors attempt to use sanction enforcement in lieu of collaborative discussion. If there is a problem with the behavior of a user that requires sanctions, then uninvolved editors and administrators can address it without the same group of involved parties demanding sanctions over and over again for months.

So this is an attempt to level the playing field, to calm tensions, and to return the focus to editing instead of gamesmanship with sanctions. I've let this sit for a couple days because I was incredibly busy with the Signpost, but I wanted to gauge the awareness of the problem among involved parties and the acceptability of this measure by uninvolved parties. Disappointingly, most of the involved parties still maintain their battle lines. However, the involved parties appear to be largely in agreement. Take note of User:Chillum's comment above: "the solution most likely to result in an encyclopedia." I hope he is correct and that this solution will nudge the matter back towards what should be our goal here.

I'm going to log the sanction and officially inform the users now. Gamaliel (talk) 16:44, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

NorthBySouthBaranof

Request concerning NorthBySouthBaranof

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: EncyclopediaBob (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 17:10, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: NorthBySouthBaranof (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/GamerGate#NorthBySouthBaranof_topic-banned :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

All edits concern Lena Dunham, the subject of several of gender-related controversies:

3/12/15 Regarding accusations of campus rape
3/12/15 The policing of women's sexuality and feminism
3/12/15 Regarding accusations of campus rape
3/12/15 Regarding conflict between "conservative white men" and "feminists" (note removed text)
2/25/15 Regarding accusations of campus rape

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

2/11/15 Violation of topic ban, unsanctioned according to HJ Mitchell only because it was stale.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

User:NorthBySouthBaranof continually toes the line of his topic ban now stepping far over.

Upon his first edits to this article on 2/25/15, in the interests of avoiding arbitration I left this notice on his talk page.

Upon these most recent edits, again I left a notice rather than bring an arbitration request . That notice was reverted and apparently only encouraged further edits.

He's been advised several times by respected editors to disengage but maintains he will "not be silenced and intimidated" despite the topic ban, as his most recent edits prove. Given the ineffectiveness of the topic ban I suggest a temporary site ban to prevent future violations, and a reversion of the article to its previous state.

@NorthBySouthBaranof: I'd suggest that notifying you personally and civilly not once but twice over several weeks before bringing this request is exactly the opposite of "stir up drama".

@Bishonen: @Konveyor Belt: I specifically limited my diffs to feminism (and its opposition) and campus rape, which the commenting arbs all agree is within the scope of the DS. I genuinely appreciate your assumption of good faith but I didn't intend to stretch the scope whatsoever. Even narrowly construed I believe these edits fall within it. And I find it difficult to take NorthBySouthBaranof's incredulity that Gamergate sanctions apply to this article sincerely, when the discussion on his talk page prompted by my post last month suggested it with reasonable arguments, and the arbs comments in the above clarification request just yesterday (a discussion in which NorthBySouthBaranof participated) removed any doubt. —EncyclopediaBob (talk) 21:27, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Notice

Discussion concerning NorthBySouthBaranof

Statement by NorthBySouthBaranof

The article in question is the biography of a notable woman. I have edited the article to conform with basic policies, and intend to continue to expand the biography in keeping with basic policies. It is notable that I have identified at least one user with a demonstrated vendetta against the article subject, and who has expressed a continued desire to "fix" Dunham's article in a negative manner.

The reporting user is a single-purpose account with eight substantive articlespace contributions but a vast array of talk-page edits, noticeboard postings and general support of Gamergate-related subjects, leaping directly into encyclopedia politics from the minute they arrived. I submit that the reporting user is not here to build an encyclopedia, but rather to stir up drama and conflict. The statements of mine they cite re "disengagement" have nothing to do with the article in question — rather, they have to do with the subject of Gamergate. It is demonstrable that I have disengaged from Gamergate. Lena Dunham's article has absolutely nothing to do with Gamergate.

The only way in which this possibly could be said to relate to the topic ban is that Lena Dunham is a woman who has written about being a victim of sexual assault. Does ArbCom intend for my topic ban to encompass every woman or man who has ever written about sexual assault, or been the victim of sexual assault, or reported on sexual assault, or discussed sexual assault? Is that truly the case? If so, let ArbCom be clear that for alleged transgressions on an article about a video game controversy, it intends for me to be indefinitely prohibited from editing a vast array of articles about or relating to women (and men). If that is the case, you need to be entirely and thoroughly clear that the Misplaced Pages Arbitration Committee believes anyone who has ever been sexually assaulted, written about sexual assault, reported on sexual assault, prosecuted sexual assault, studied sexual assault, portrayed a victim of sexual assault on stage or screen, etc. etc. etc. has willingly or unwillingly become part of a "gender-related controversy." The topic ban would thus extend from The Vagina Monologues to Oprah Winfrey, A Time to Kill (1996 film) to Lady Gaga, Teri Hatcher to Tyler Perry, Nevada Barr to the University of Idaho. I submit that such is absurdly overbroad, unfairly unenforceable and wholly unnecessary to the purpose of the Gamergate controversy arbitration case.

Konveyor Belt, you contradict yourself quite thoroughly here: That's false, and only would give more journalists more cannon fodder. ArbCom does not need to do any such thing, in fact, they already have. If my statement is false and "only would give more journalists more cannon fodder," then it is not true. If, on the other hand, ArbCom already has done such a thing, then they ought to be quite clear and explicit about it, regardless of what journalists might say about it. If sexual assault is a "gender-related controversy," and thus I am banned from literally every single article which might possibly touch on sexual assault, the Arbitration Committee has a responsibility to make that clear, so that I might immediately appeal it directly to Jimmy Wales as impossibly overbroad, unenforceable, unfair and wholly unnecessary to the purpose of the case. You are basically saying that the ArbCom should make a decision but not be explicit about it out of fear that "journalists" might criticize that decision. When one makes such a public decision, one cannot shirk public responsibility for that decision. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 19:05, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Konveyor Belt (uninvolved)

@NBSB: If that is the case, you need to be entirely and thoroughly clear that the Misplaced Pages Arbitration Committee believes anyone who has ever been sexually assaulted, written about sexual assault, reported on sexual assault, prosecuted sexual assault, studied sexual assault, has willingly or unwillingly become part of a "gender-related controversy." That's false, and only would give more journalists more cannon fodder. ArbCom does not need to do any such thing, in fact, they already have.

You were tbanned under the standard tban as defined in the case as Any editor subject to a topic-ban in this decision is indefinitely prohibited from making any edit about, and from editing any page relating to, (a) Gamergate, (b) any gender-related dispute or controversy, (c) people associated with (a) or (b), all broadly construed.

As stated in MarkBernstein's ARCA request by the arbs, sexual assault is pretty clearly a gender related area. Nobody, including the ArbCom, needs to define that. The very definition of sexual assault and the resulting controversies prove that pretty well. And per C, Lena Dunham is thus someone associated with a gender-related dispute or controversy. KonveyorBelt 18:57, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Re: By passing the standard TBAN definition, they have already said as much. I'm pretty sure they knew what they were doing, and they meant to ban you from gender related issues, not just GG, of which sexual assault is inherently one of them. There is no need for any additional formal motions or clarifications on the subject because they would not be adding or amending anything. That's what I meant by "they have already decided it". KonveyorBelt 19:09, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

You have added things since I started replying, so I'll reply again. If sexual assault is a "gender-related controversy," and thus I am banned from literally every single article which might possibly touch on sexual assault, the Arbitration Committee has a responsibility to make that clear. That's ok. You have every right to know to what degree the ban extends. But if they told you as much, nothing would change. No additional amendments or motions are needed, because it was already in the decision from day 1.

On whether the ban is too broad and whether it is warranted: I'd say it's fairly warranted, as after the TBAN you have remained on articles like Lena Dunham that vaguely involve gender, endlessly wikilawyered over the ban (which is allowed per BANEX, but still tendentious), and even redacted BLP violations from the GG talk page which is also allowed by BANEX, but shows you are still involved in the area and still had it on your watchlist. This shows a disregard for the spirit of the rule, if not the letter, which was intended to get you to edit elsewhere. KonveyorBelt 19:22, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Bishonen: It is pretty silly to think the ban extends to all women. It is supposed to be broad, but not ridiculous. KonveyorBelt 19:25, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by TheRedPenOfDoom

Contrary to common sense it appears the ArbCom is going all in on their "we value the semblance of non-disruption and editors who are the target of coordinated outside disruption need to be purged" . -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 19:13, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

@EdJohnston: Superior orders and all. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 23:36, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

I was asked to remove the reference above to admins hiding behind an "I was only following orders." defense. I will not.

"Gamergaters were ultimately unable to use Misplaced Pages to assert their views as if they were objective reality. Still, Misplaced Pages lost the very people who were trying to guard the gates in the first place. What happens to the next victim of a Misplaced Pages harassment campaign if the defenders are getting squeezed out through this pox-on-both-your-houses system?"

Admins in fact have policy: If a rule prevents you from improving or maintaining Misplaced Pages, ignore it. to state "There was a bad idea paving the way for organized disruption of the project and I will not play a part in institutionalizing it. " -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 15:10, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Cailil

Sorry Bish but you're wrong on this one. The Lena Dunham diffs are topic ban violations. The mix of BLP, controversy and gender issues is clearly there . Anyone banned under ARBGG's ruling should not be making these kinds of edits--Cailil 22:17, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Rhoark

NorthBySouthBaranof is a valuable defender of innocent people from BLP violations; however, in their zeal they seem to have good faith difficulty interpreting the terms of their topic ban. The purpose of the broad scope of the ban is to prevent the same behavioral issues from being exported to new pages. That is exactly what has happened here, in terms of a zeal for BLP causing unwillingness to recognize other points of view, along with blanking discussions in a way not justified by WP:BLPTALK . I'm in favor of extending WP:ROPE with the understanding that for BLP issues where there's a shred of doubt whether WP:BANEX applies NorthBySouth will bring it to ] or other appropriate avenues. Rhoark (talk) 23:05, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

EncyclopediaBob is undoubtedly a SPA, has canvassed, and is perhaps deserving of a boomerang from this filing. The proper form for that would be a temporary topic ban. @MastCell: blocking on the basis of a hunch of sockpuppetry is beyond the pale. No evidence has been presented that he is an alternate account, or that if it is alternate that its use is an improper one (deception or disruption). It may be a proper alternate, a quick study, someone with experience as an IP, or a fresh start (to which users are entitled). If you're unconvinced, Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet_investigations exists for that reason. Rhoark (talk) 19:26, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (anonymous)

I can find very little of substance in NorthBySouthBaranof's response here, nor those of the people defending him. The filer's contribution history is not relevant to the truth of the claims; and anyway would anyone really be satisfied if the motion were to be re-opened by someone else? Seems to me like we all know how that sort of thing usually goes - "stop forum-shopping"; "this repeated action is harassment" etc. As for the WP:NOTHERE charge, I can hardly imagine an act which contributes more to Misplaced Pages than ensuring that disruptive editors are justly sanctioned. (Well, one could directly clean up the mess, but that's a little harder to do when it's caused by a more established editor than the one noticing the problem.)

It ought to be obvious, to anyone who has been paying attention, how Lena Dunham is connected to gender-based controversy. Her book specifically relates her experiences as a woman; she has been accused of sexual abuse - an accusation which is clearly controversial and which many believe would be treated differently if she were a man; and her allegation of sexual assault apparently led to a witch-hunt of an innocent man - again seen by many as a men's rights issue. (I also note here that Misplaced Pages appears to have an interesting habit of consistently identifying "conservative" sources as such, while not applying the tag "liberal" similarly; and this is clearly evident in the case of the Lena Dunham article. Of course I do not mean to bring a content dispute here, but it's meaningful context - the informed observer will note a very strong tendency, in gender-related controversies, for "feminists" to be identified with liberalism and "MRAs" with conservatism, regardless of the accuracy of those statements.)

Arbcom's decision was clear, and deliberate. The prohibition on "gender-related controversy, broadly construed" is certainly and obviously not meant to apply to all individuals connected to sexual assault claims. However, it strains credulity to imagine that NorthBySouthBaranof honestly cannot see how Lena Dunham is not "just another victim" in this regard. There is nothing controversial about Oprah Winfrey's speaking out about being molested as a child, and it was nearly 3 decades ago. Lena Dunham's book is current, and there is plenty of plainly evident controversy.

Regarding defenders, I'm especially bothered by the apparent lack of civility on @TheRedPenOfDoom:'s part. Referring to "purges" and "superior orders" seems like rather deliberately constructed imagery. But anyway, these vague claims of coordinated outside disruption seem unproductive. Arbcom already considered several arguments about such harassment at great length before making their decision. It was assuredly taken into account, and further complaints can, as far as I'm concerned, really only be interpreted as whining. Or perhaps he has new evidence here? Care to point to where exactly, externally, my specific comments in this case have been solicited?

76.64.12.157 (talk) 02:30, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by coldacid

Of the linked, non-stale diffs provided by the complainant, only one does not directly deal with sexual controversy in the Lena Dunham article. It's honestly baffling to me that anyone would not consider them such. We've already gone over all this in WP:ARCA regarding GG discretionary sanctions and campus rape versus the scope of the GG topic ban.

Were the edits purely deletionary with regard to possible BLP violations, then they would fall under WP:BANEX but from what I observed, there is actual content editing beyond simply removing BLP vios in those diffs. Given the opinions from some of the admins below and from the ARCA discussion, I believe NBSB should be formally warned, at a minimum, that this behaviour is a violation of his topic ban. // coldacid (talk|contrib) 01:13, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning NorthBySouthBaranof

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

No violation in my opinion. It's true that the standard topic ban is itself extremely (in my opinion overly) broad, including as it does the wording "any gender-related dispute or controversy". But I still can't believe the committee intended for gamergate-topic banned editors to be excluded from all articles about high-profile women, or even (per NBSB above) all articles about high-profile women who claim to have been raped. I suppose somebody could file a request for clarification, but it might be simpler if we could hear from some arbs here; pinging Dougweller, Roger Davies, GorillaWarfare. The OP is probably in good faith, but he/she shouldn't stretch "broadly construed" out to the breadth of the solar system. I note also that NBSB is protecting the article against those who would use it as a vehicle for attacking the subject, compare . I've revdel'd the offending post, but admins can read it here. (Please scroll down, the worst stuff is near the bottom.) Banning NBSB from articles like this one would be doing their subjects, and Misplaced Pages, a disfavor. Bishonen | talk 19:06, 12 March 2015 (UTC).
- Additional comment: @ the "anonymous" IP. What do you mean by "my specific comments in this case"? Who are you? You're obviously not a new editor. Logging out to accuse opponents of "whining" is disruptive. I've blocked your IP for 48 hours. Bishonen | talk 21:23, 13 March 2015 (UTC).
Though single admins can issue tailored bans that don't cover the entire topic area, NBSB's topic ban comes directly from Arbcom. So we have no discretion to let NBSB edit campus rape articles. If the Committee considers campus rape a gender-related topic, then there is no recourse for NBSB short of WP:ARCA. Notice that this complaint asserts a violation of the Gamergate decision not WP:BLPBAN. EdJohnston (talk) 23:17, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

@Bishonen: I know you didn't ping me, and I'm speaking only for myself, not officially for the Committee, but in my own opinion, yes, items which are both controversial and gender-related are covered by the topic ban, just as it is worded. The Dunham edits in this case would be covered under that. Also, as a general reminder to other topic-banned editors in this area, exceptions to topic bans are deliberately narrow. It does include commenting on an enforcement request against oneself for the specific purpose of defending oneself (not for the purpose of general discussion of the issue, only for defending oneself), but it absolutely does not include commenting or opining on an enforcement request against another editor covered under the same topic ban where sanctions against oneself are not proposed. Such comments are in and of themselves ban violations, and topic-banned editors may not participate in such requests as third parties, as that is prohibited participation in the topic area. That has been happening frequently in this area, including at this request, and must stop. I decline to advocate any particular result here, but hope that's somewhat helpful. Seraphimblade 03:44, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

I agree with the committee's so far unanimous view at ARCA that these edits fall within the scope of the topic ban, and I think an enforcement action is in order. T. Canens (talk) 03:59, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
- I agree with HJ Mitchell's suggestion below that a reminder is sufficient in this instance. T. Canens (talk) 20:55, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

I have avoided this topic area for a number of reasons, so I can't profess intimate familiarity with ArbCom case law on the subject. That said, I cannot believe that it makes sense to sanction NorthBySouthBaranof for the edits in question to Lena Dunham. If that is how ArbCom intended the sanctions to work, then I refuse to enforce them in this case, although of course my administrative colleagues are free to do as they see fit. I do think it's clear that neither the spirit nor the letter of the decision permits the creation of throwaway single-purpose accounts like EncyclopediaBob (talk · contribs) designed to pursue wikilitigation in this topic area, and so I have blocked that account indefinitely for violating the relevant policy. MastCell 17:27, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
I have mixed feelings here. NBSB's edits here were clearly to benefit of the encyclopaedia, and he was attempting prevent harm caused by an editor with strong negative views about the subject; it's also accurate to say that he has largely stepped away from gamergate itself, and he comes across as much calmer now than he did at the height of the dispute (though the same is probably true of me!) and I think he might have learnt when it's best to step back and get more eyes on a situation rather than get into edit wars or heated arguments. Prior to the topic ban NBSB was in tunnel vision; he was edit-warring and arguing and generally making things even more difficult and although he did valuable work in keeping libel and other obvious rubbish out of the articles, he was by the end incapable of distinguishing between good-faith opponents and libellous/misognynistic trolls. The topic ban was, though, deliberately broadly crafted to prevent gamergate nonsense being imported to similar topic areas and to prevent parties from re-fighting the same fight on related articles, as happens all too frequently. This comment from Carrite concisely sums up my concerns (although I dislike the tone)—essentially I worry that NBSB would slip back into the same mode that got him into trouble on gamergate.
For that reason, I think NBSB's continued editing of that article is not a good idea, and I agree that Lena Dunham, and that content in particular, would be covered by (a) Gamergate, (b) any gender-related dispute or controversy, (c) people associated with (a) or (b), all broadly construed. The last thing anyone wants is for that article (or any other) to become the next gamergate. That said, I think NBSB was sincere in his belief that the article wasn't covered by his topic ban, so I recommend no enforcement action beyond informal words of advice. This time. Obviously if NBSB doesn't heed the advice now that he's got clarification, we would be a lot less understanding next time. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:04, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Taking the arbs' point of view for a sec: It's impossible to win. It's hard to craft a narrow topic ban because many editors will find a way to disrupt things in areas clearly just outside the topic ban. And so the editor is constantly brought to a noticeboard somewhere to get the scope of the topic ban expanded. So people get annoyed and say "please don't make topic bans so narrow". Except they word it differently, cursing and implying you're an asshole for crafting such a narrow topic ban. So you craft a broad topic ban, and then editors make helpful edits on topics that would be outside a narrow topic ban and are inside the broad topic ban, and get in trouble, and people say "please don't make topic bans so broad". Except they word it differently, cursing and implying you're an asshole for crafting such a broad topic ban. Present company excepted, of course.

A topic ban is fundamentally a shortcut, a way of saying "we're tired of having to argue all the time about whether each individual edit of yours in a given topic is good or bad, so just screw it: you can't make any edits in this area." As a shortcut, it's not crazy to make the topic area broad, but it's guaranteed to end up causing problems at the boundaries, just like narrow topic bans are guaranteed to end up causing problems.

One way to at least ease the pain this inevitably causes is to use some modicum of restraint and judgment. Just like a cop isn't going to pull someone over for going 37 in a 35 zone, we should generally turn a blind eye towards a 100% clearly justifiable edit that might break the broad topic ban but fixes a clear BLP issue, and is reported by a cowardly throwaway account of some editor who was likely banned or topic banned themselves.

So I suggest closing this with the result being: "Meh". Or maybe "Mu". Not an official endorsement (although I think 100% of us endorse the actual edit itself), not an official warning, just a "throwaway sock isn't going to win this time". --Floquenbeam (talk) 20:05, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

MarkBernstein

Request concerning MarkBernstein

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: NE Ent (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 00:45, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: MarkBernstein (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/GamerGate (discretionary sanctions):

Dreadstar: "Due to your continued comments about other editors , I'm imposing upon you a 90-day ban on all edits about, and all pages related to, (a) GamerGate, (b) any gender-related dispute or controversy, (c) people associated with (a) or (b), all broadly construed per Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/GamerGate."

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

10 March Statement WP:SPAMLINKs Bernstein's own blog "benefit our pals." Linked site is a discussion of Gamergate.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

3 Jan Block for prior violation

Additional comments by editor filing complaint: @Timotheus Canens: Prior to filing I asked @Roger Davies: where to file and was told "AE is best" NE Ent 09:28, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning MarkBernstein

Statement by MarkBernstein

Great Caesar’s Ghost! Shades of Kafka, yes, but also Lewis Carroll, Gilbert and Sullivan, and Catch-22! This affair has more nuttiness than a candy factory in a hurricane. Let’s look briefly at how we got into this fine mess, and how we might still get out.

1. Last Sunday at the Gamergate Talk page, we were discussing a recent article about collusive editing at the Gamergate page. In the course of that discussion, I made an indirect and general allusion to -- wait for it! -- collusive editing at the Gamergate page.

2. This topic has been reported in newspapers, studied in seminars and scholarly journals, and was recently discussed (by my Congresswoman, Katherine Clark D-MA) on the floor of the US House of Representatives. If uncivil it be, the planet is awash in incivility.

3. @Dreadstar: topic-banned me for alluding to this subject, under Gamergate Discretionary Sanctions. I was surprised -- but little surprises me these days when it comes to Misplaced Pages. (Little did I know how strange things would shortly grow.)

Suggestion: the topic ban is neither right nor expedient. I think you should overturn it.

4. A few minutes before, I had told an activist who had written to me that I was willing keep an eye on and associated pages. Now, @NorthBySouthBaranof:, who is topic banned under Discretionary Sanctions, had been criticized for editing the page of comedian Lena Dunham, who is probably not the first person who springs to mind when you think of GamerGate, nor even the hundred and first. Does Campus Rape fall under GamerGate sanctions? When in doubt, ask! I sent a quick email query to @Dreadstar: and to three other admins, posing this conundrum and explaining why I was asking.

5. Not having received a reply, but being engaged on my own talk page, I repeated the query there. Shortly afterward, I received a string of angry and threatening messages from Dreadstar, the last calling me a "motherfucker." (Believe me, I was absolutely astonished! What on earth could have provoked this?)

Suggestion: administrators really might respond to reasonable questions reasonably, whatever the provocation. Here, there was really no provocation, no urgency, nothing at stake. This wasn't like the dozens of attempts to publicize rumors about the sex lives of female software developers -- the most recent perpetrated 36 hours ago.

6. Unfortunately, the Motherfucker Memo failed to indicate whether or not the topic ban applied to Campus Rape. Not receiving any guidance overnight or the following morning, I wondered, “whom might I ask?” It turns out that the Arbitration Committee has established a page, Arbitration/Requests/Clarification_and_Amendment (ARCA), where one may request clarification! Seeking clarity, I did, asking what I had asked before:

Is it your intent that the standard Gamergate topic ban include pages relating to Campus Rape, which might conceivably be construed to be a controversy and arguably is related to gender?

The Arbitration Committee proceeded to discuss the matter, and as far as I know they continue to do so. I may not agree with their line of reasoning, but they have not asked for my opinion and I have not offered it: I simply asked what they intended.

7. Some third parties did express opinions of various sorts on various topics. A number expressed great displeasure with me and urged that I be sternly punished. I responded -- as people frequently do at ARCA -- in my own area with one or two temperate observations, reminding all that (a) the question at hand was what Arbcom meant to say, to which anything I might have done or said or any funny faces I might have made is perfectly irrelevant, and (b) that one proposal, put forth by an administrator, might prove unworkable in ways that are not immediately apparent. Again, this is entirely reasonable, while the denigration of my abilities, intentions, and character heaped on my head were entirely out of place

Suggestion: I know the clerks are new, but keeping the proceedings strictly on topic might have been wiser.

8. It is this last issue -- my suggesting that @Masem:’s proposal to vary the ambit of Discretionary Sanctions from person to person would prove both unjust and impractical -- it is this that arouses Ent’s wrath and brings us here. (I know -- you can’t make this stuff up!)

Suggestion: the clerks didn’t object to my statement. The arbitrators didn’t object to my statement, and some directly engaged it. If it was disruptive, might someone have mentioned it there? Trout amandine for our good NE Ent, with a lightly chilled Chablis.

9. NEEnt also raises the question of my linking to my writing on Misplaced Pages from time to time, citing WP:SPAMSITES. This is silly. First, “Infamous” and its successors have been read by about 120,000 people now. They’ve been quoted in newspapers with an aggregate circulation of many millions of readers. Every tech journalist in the world is aware of the story now. The flow of traffic from an obscure inquiry page in Misplaced Pages is trivial; cui bono?

It might also be remembered that I’ve done a bit of research in writing with links. After four dozen research papers, a writing guide that gets reprinted in high school primers, a book and several book chapters about links, linking becomes a habit.

Finally: remember that I was addressing ARBCOM, people whom I’ve both denounced and ridiculed. In such circumstances, my mother always urged me to lay the bad news out clearly, rather than to hope no one has noticed.

Suggestion: Don’t like the way I use links? Do you have an idea of a better way to use links in exposition and argumentation? Write me. I may not be your cup of tea, but I am active in the hypertext research community and, if you have a better way to write with links, I’m all ears -- and I can (and will) direct you to the audience you want.

10. I do regret whatever disruption was caused by the original transgression:

“It is fascinating that the particular group of editors who recently were so eager to cite Gamergate wikis, weblogs, and Breitbart are reluctant to inform newcomers to this article of this important new essay. Why would that be?”

No doubt this was a very wicked thing to say, though I’m not sure how. It might violate of WP:MOMHESLOOKINGATMEFUNNY, except that's not a thing. There are worse things: One of those worse things is outing -- the real thing, not the Misplaced Pages thing. It can ruin careers and cost lives. This is not a mere content dispute or a fight about infoboxes. Let’s not lose track of that.

11. For all my faults, I've been a pretty useful Wikipedian. Unlikely as it seems, I might still prove useful to the project if you can find the will to listen to some of my suggestions -- or if you can contrive suggestions of your own that you can convince me are superior.

Statement by Rhoark

It would be Kafkaesque to punish violation of a tban made in the process of seeking clarification on the tban through the appropriate venue. Rhoark (talk) 02:29, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (anonymous)

@Rhoark: As far as I can tell, the cited diff wouldn't be affected by the clarification being sought, and there's no reason to suppose that MarkBernstein didn't know any better. MarkBernstein's outside link directly discusses Gamergate, while the ARCA is about whether "campus rape" fits under "gender related controversy". This is far from the first time he's dropped links to his blog articles on Misplaced Pages. There would be nothing Kafkaesque about charging someone with a crime in the middle of an ongoing trial, if they actually flagrantly committed a crime right in the courtroom. 76.64.12.157 (talk) 02:49, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Hipocrite

A little confused here. NE Ent appeared to remove MB's topic ban here. Also, if MB's topic ban includes requests for clarification, how is he supposed to understand his topic ban (which, by the way, no longer exists)? Hipocrite (talk) 02:52, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Starship.paint

@Hipocrite: - NE Ent closed that discussion with (per OP request). Seeing that the OP is MarkBernstein, it would seem ridiculous if NE Ent had lifted MarkBernstein's topic ban directly due to MarkBernstein's request? Perhaps the topic closure was done per MarkBernstein's request. Nevertheless, would appreciate @NE Ent: to comment on this. starship.paint ~ ¡Olé! 03:26, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Just realized NE Ent has commented on this already: Of course closing the ANI thread doesn't affect the topic ban; the discussion was about Dreadstar's inappropriate language. starship.paint ~ ¡Olé! 03:32, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

@Hipocrite and @Rhoark: - by all means, MarkBernstein is within his means to clarify his ban at ARCA, but such clarification did not need blatant advertising of his own blog discussing GamerGate. starship.paint ~ ¡Olé! 03:36, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by coldacid

Probably foolish to have included that link in his ARCA request, but as far as I know you're allowed to say or link anything short of out-and-out libellous or threatening statements. Besides, this is right in front of the arbs themselves; if MarkBernstein's putting out enough rope to hang himself, ArbCom can set him on the gallows themselves. I'd suggest just close this one. // coldacid (talk|contrib) 01:17, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning MarkBernstein

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

Consistent with AE's traditional reluctance to intervene on arbcom's own pages, I would leave this issue to the committee and its clerks. T. Canens (talk) 03:40, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Cwobeel

Request concerning Cwobeel

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: ChrisGualtieri (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 06:36, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: Cwobeel (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: WP:NEWBLPBAN

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

03:43, 23 January 2015 Original insertion of an inaccurate, out of context, and less than half a sentence passing mention sourced to an organization with long standing disputes with Emerson.
17:55, 23 January 2015 Adding: " One more source for good measure)" A tiny quip labeling him as an Islamophobe without any reason or evidence.
4:27, 2 March 2015 Reinserting into lead after protection lapsed.
16:31, 2 March 2015 Continuing after a month long protection to insert inappropriate material
4 March 2015 Inserting the material again despite no consensus
Steven Emerson - Part 3 - A BLPN discussion is made and Cwobeel acknowledges WP:BLPREQUESTRESTORE
7 March 2015 Restoring the problematic material again during a BLPN dispute.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

12 December 2014 - Cwobeel was notified of the AC/DS for BLP.
24 January 2015 He was blocked for violating the sanctions after I submitted a Arbitration Enforcement request when the user was restoring unsourced BLPs - and sourced them only to IMDb and arguing with an admin over whether or not it was appropriate.
25 January 2015 A sanction was placed on "Awards and nominations" except for adding Reliable Sources - This sanction is not relevant here, but it was the end result of the previous AE about BLP.

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

This needs a bit of background. The source being used here is from organizations which Emerson has had legal battles with and has actually sued for defamation arising from said disputes. Cwobeel asserts that the sources are high-quality and reliable despite this. Biased sources exist, but accusations of bigotry are very serious and should not be sourced to less than a single sentence. Secondly, the only source which gives a "reason" is actually committing a very biased and judgmental attack on Emerson. Emerson has also highlighted that it is a partial quote being used. Within hours of the Oklahoma City Bombing, media, law enforcement and even the FBI raised concerns of Islamic terrorism. Emerson was not the origin, but merely one of numerous persons used by the media to further the Islamic Terrorism angle, he simply acknowledged the speculative and rampant rumor about six hours after the blast. Publications from the Wall Street Journal to the The New York Post ran stories with other experts (not Emerson) making clear the "middle east" terrorism links.

After the removal on March 4, the BLPN petered around a bit. Essentially the "gaff" is important and everyone agrees it needs to be in the article - but the "Islamophobe source" accusation is shown to be flawed and have no consensus to be included and Cwobeel re-added it anyways. Unfortunately this is not an isolated example because Cwobeel has also repeatedly edit warred to re-insert completely false material shown here removing an ACLU reference (containing the document) and replacing it with the erroneous and false claim saying it does not exist. I do not understand why Cwobeel does these things or has this attitude, but can the article also be placed on 1RR restriction since the 1 month protection failed to stop this?

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Cwobeel

Statement by Nomoskedasticity

This AE filing is a gambit in a content dispute. It's fine for the OP to disagree with the proposed edit, but when several other editors dissent from the notion that it's a BLP violation it's very poor form to state that notion here as if it were an indisputable fact. The basis for the claim includes the idea that because Emerson sued a couple of scholars over the way he was characterised by them the scholars are therefore unusable as sources about him. That's a very strange idea, and again it does not enjoy consensus in discussions about this article. What that means is that "the 'Islamophobe source' accusation is shown to be flawed" is a matter of the OP's opinion. I really don't see how all of this adds up to a need for an immediate block, nor a block at all. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 14:14, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

HJ Mitchell, there's a context here that's worth knowing; I've just addressed your point via a post on BLPN; perhaps it's redundant to repeat it here. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 17:58, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by MrX

Isn't it standard practice to allow the accused to make a statement on their own behalf in Arbcom enforcement cases, especially when the case is opened in the middle of the night? I'm deeply concerned about the strained interpretation of WP:BLP being advanced here, on the basis of original research and without the consensus of the community. In my opinion, these types of blocks based on novel interpretation of policy have a potentially chilling effect on open editing of any BLPs and the potential for seriously affecting neutral POV by keeping any and all negative information out of articles if anyone objects. - Mr X 17:05, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Serialjoepsycho

I could only struggle to say that this is a bad call, because simply it's not. It is a good call. Very straight forward. With that said however I'm not sure this case calls for a straight forward call. This diff really seems in good faith. While I did suggest Cwobeel seek a formal closure,it does seem his view of the consensus is correct. Perhaps he should have waited longer before instituting the change. In this case a direct warning and pointing out the problematic behavior may very well suffice. The thing is the article was just locked down for a month. I'm not sure this does anything to target the disruption to the article, just perhaps Cwobeel's. I'd hate to see DS to be used as a replacement for consensus making and reviewing related conversations of the subject of Steven Emerson I question if that may be what is happening. I'd like to ask you to consider over turning this block and I would like to also ask that you consider Chris' request above to institute 1RR in the article if you haven't already.-Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 20:17, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Cwobeel

Given that this was unarchived to address HJ Mitchell's concern in which he states that I'm concerned that Cwobeel has a tendency to revert without discussion and to dismiss good-faith BLP concerns that he personally deems to be invalid rather than waiting for consensus on noticeboards and talk pages, here is my response:

I have learned my lessons from previous sanctions, and striving to be more careful.
In this specific instance I initiated a BLP/N discussion and waited for consensus to emerge before reinstating the material. As per other editors commenting here, I may not have been the best person to take that initiative, and I should have waited for someone else to perform that edit, but that was a mere technicality.
The block was uncalled for if HJ Mitchell had taken some time to look at the context. There was no reason to assume that I would revert, because I did not. Other editors did that and for good reason as there was an established consensus to override WP:BLPREQUESTRESTORE.
We need a better process to deal with situations in which editors use BLPREQUESTRESTORE as a blunt instrument, as I believe it was the case here. I respected BLPREQUESTRESTORE, started a thread to solicit uninvolved editor's input at BLP/N, got consensus, and still the OP felt entitled to post an AE and waste an enormous amount of time.
AE requests are serious matters, and there is an expectation that admins take some time to evaluate the situation before pulling the trigger, and assess the OPs arguments not just prima facie.

I hope to continue editing BLPs in my area of interest, and will strive to be extra careful when BLPREQUESTRESTORE is raised, using BLP/N and DR as necessary. - Cwobeel (talk) 16:46, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Rhoark (uninvolved)

While it would have been preferable for Cwobeel to edit more patiently, the same is true of ChrisGualtieri. It takes two to edit war. This enforcement request looks above all like forum shopping and an attempt to sudo a content dispute when BLP/N looked to be leaning Cwobeel's way. BLP matters should be treated carefully of course, but when there's consensus that the burden of proof has been met for BLP restoration only little concession is due to an editor refusing to acknowledge that proof. The actual dispute seems to have more to do with due weight than BLP, concerning use of the word "Islamophobic". Having no prior knowledge of the article subject, I turned to Google. In the first three pages there was not one source that discussed Emerson in any context other than making false statements with the effect of inciting fear and anger against Muslims. Some used the word "Islamophobic" and some did not, but if that's not an accurate paraphrase I don't know what is. There are many more incidents than just Oklahoma City. I'm sure there's probably much more to the man, but Islamophobia seems to be his principal area of notability. Other paraphrasings are possible, but as a general matter it belongs in the lede. Given there was definitely disruption on the page, it was appropriate to provisionally block, but I'm glad it has been reversed and the matter is getting closer attention. It shouldn't have even taken an appeal to get a more skeptical view. I don't think any further remedy is necessary. Rhoark (talk) 18:16, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Gaijin42

CWobeel and I have interacted on a quite a few articles. Usually from completely opposite political perspectives. In some cases, I have had great frustration with his edits (the feeling is likely mutual). One case I can remember is him insisting on repeatedly removing Ted Cruz's well known Cuban identification. However, on the whole cwobeel is an editor that can be reasoned with and collaborated with.

We were largely on opposite sides of most debates in the Michael Brown article, and while debates there often got heated, the interactions were largely collaborative, and Cwobeel's participation was not a disruption, and helped to bring balance to the article (if by nothing else ensuring that those he disagreed with were using proper sources and accurately representing them). He made a particularly strong contribution with his addition of the shooting scene diagram, and was open to including lengthy rework and feedback at significant cost of his own time and effort, including multiple elements that largely disagreed with his POV (and which ultimately proved to be pivotal in the DOJ/City reports).

There are a great many editors of all stripes involved in editing controversial and heated topics. These topics by their nature are often more likely to have flareups of warring or issues. They are also areas where editors are likely to try and WP:GAME the system with ANI/E3 reports to gain an upper hand, which goes a long way to explain the number of blocks. If these incidents are relatively infrequent, the short term consequences of the relevant blocks seem to be sufficient punishment and deterrent.

I have no comment on this particular edit/incident as I am not involved, and do not know enough to comment.

I weigh in against any broad BLP ban, and if some intermediary sanction is required (1RR etc) I would suggest it should be of a limited timespan (a few months at the most)Gaijin42 (talk) 21:46, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Cwobeel

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

I've blocked Cwobeel for a fortnight to prevent the immediate disruption (which is the restoration of the material while it was being discussed at BLPN). Considering this is the second time in recent weeks that Cwobeel's conduct on BLPs as been in question at this board, I think we should consider much more rigorous sanctions, possibly even a long-term block. Note that this is Cwobeel's fifth block in less than a year, and BLP issues appear to be at the root of all of them. Cwobeel also has two logged warnings under NEWBLPBAN, and was banned by Sandstein in January from editing award lists. It seems that Cwobeel's compliance with BLP has been a long-term problem. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 13:39, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
@Nomoskedasticity and MrX: et al, the block is not based on one interpretation of BLP versus another. I have no opinion on that. The issue is that once something is removed on a good-faith BLP objection it shouldn't be restored until the concerns are addressed or consensus determines them to be meritless. Edit-warring because you disagree with your opponent's interpretation of BLP is unacceptable, and doing so citing a discussion that is still open strikes me as disingenuous. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:53, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

I've brought this back from the archive as it was never formally closed and I think wider issues with Cwobeel's conduct on BLPs bear examination. I note that Cwobeel has been blocked five times in the just under a year—twice under NEWBLPBAN, three times for edit-warring (of which two were on BLPs). I'm concerned that Cwobeel has a tendency to revert without discussion and to dismiss good-faith BLP concerns that he personally deems to be invalid rather than waiting for consensus on noticeboards and talk pages. I've unblocked Cwobeel, as the short-term block was only ever intended to deal with the immediate issue, but I think we should seriously consider some sort of revert restriction or similar (broad topic bans are a bit of a blunt instrument, and I don't think that sort of thing is warranted here). HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 15:07, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

A Gounaris

Request concerning A Gounaris

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Future Perfect at Sunrise (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 17:14, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: A Gounaris (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: WP:ARBMAC discretionary sanctions

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Persistent edit-warring against consensus of several other editors:
- On Greece: (at least 4 instances of re-inserting "Balkans" in place of "SE Europe"); (rv of ); (rv of ); (rv of ); (rv of ); (rv of )
  (several of these are partial reverts, usually re-insertions of contentious material previously removed as irrelevant or tendentious by other editors, though sometimes slightly reworded. Similar behaviour is also seen on other articles.)
Refusal to provide references for his insertions; edit-warring to remove {fact} maintenance tags
Incivility, personal attacks, casting aspersions about other editors' alleged motivation:
- (edit summary), (edit summary)
Long-term previous history of similar aggressive attitude and incivility:
- Update: His reaction to this report was this and this (plus yet another rv of yet another editor on the Greece article , plus the clumsy attempt at a retaliatory counter-report just below here) Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:33, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
- Further update: he is now at 3R over the removal of fact-tags at Languages of Greece (, ) and has engaged in yet more personal attacks in the form of spurious sockpuppet accusations (apparently all the different editors who have been reverting him are socks of mine: ). Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:46, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts): (Arb notice from March 2013); also: (Macedonia 1RR warning); (standard 3RR warning)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning A Gounaris

Statement by A Gounaris

Statement by Dolescum

I'm not much one for the drama boards, but I'm supporting Fut Per here. I have repeatedly asked A Gounaris to provide evidence for their assertions as can be seen in the edit summaries here and here. My exhortations seem to be falling on deaf ears. Furthermore, this revert of yet another removal of their edits, in spite of the report here having already been made, seems to indicate a battleground mentality and no desire to work with the rest of the community. This needs to stop. Dolescum (talk) 18:46, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning A Gounaris

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

I have looked at the references provided, and I am not impressed by the abilities of A Gounaris to edit collaboratively and to accept criticism in editing on topics related to Greece. The enforcement request they obened below to "mirror" this one is a good confirmation. On the other hand, they have an empty block log. A topic ban might be in order.--Ymblanter (talk) 19:59, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Agree with Ymblanter. Suggest the following result: "A Gounaris is topic banned for 6 months from all articles relating Greece, and the Balkans"--Cailil 21:10, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

I would prefer an indef topic ban with appeals allowed every 6 months. Given some of those diffs, I'd like to see affirmative evidence of improvement before considering lifting the topic ban. T. Canens (talk) 21:21, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Since I have the Greece article on my watchlist I keep seeing new reverts and adventurous edits by User:A Gounaris. Usually these changes stay below the threshold of 3RR but these edits suggest that the editor doesn't feel the need for any support from others for their changes. People who are extremely confident that they are right and have strong non-mainstream personal opinions are usually not helpful on highly-visible articles such as Greece. The editor's talk page shows they have received numerous warnings. I would support User:Timotheus Canens' proposal for an indefinite topic ban from all articles related to Greece and the Balkans (which is essentially all of ARBMAC) with the possibility of review after six months. EdJohnston (talk) 22:19, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

I have absolutely no problem with going indef in this situation and support T Canens's proposal--Cailil 12:51, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Future Perfect at Sunrise

There's no actual enforcement request in here. T. Canens (talk) 20:40, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Request concerning Future Perfect at Sunrise User who is submitting this request for enforcement A Gounaris (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 18:25, 13 March 2015 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested Future Perfect at Sunrise (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log Sanction or remedy to be enforced Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/CASENAME#SECTION : Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it Date Explanation Date Explanation Date Explanation Date Explanation Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any Date Explanation Date Explanation If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts) Mentioned by name in the Arbitration Committee's Final Decision linked to above. Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above. Previously given a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict on Date by Username (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA). Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, see the system log linked to above. Gave an alert about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on Date Participated in an arbitration request or enforcement procedure about the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on Date. Successfully appealed all their own sanctions relating to the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on Date. Additional comments by editor filing complaint Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested Discussion concerning USERNAME Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks. Statement by USERNAME Statement by (username) Result concerning USERNAME This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above. Suggest a speedy close.--Ymblanter (talk) 19:49, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

There's no actual enforcement request in here. T. Canens (talk) 20:40, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Request concerning Future Perfect at Sunrise

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: A Gounaris (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 18:25, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: Future Perfect at Sunrise (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/CASENAME#SECTION :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Date Explanation
Date Explanation
Date Explanation
Date Explanation

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

Date Explanation
Date Explanation

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Mentioned by name in the Arbitration Committee's Final Decision linked to above.
Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above.
Previously given a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict on Date by Username (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA).
Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, see the system log linked to above.
Gave an alert about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on Date
Participated in an arbitration request or enforcement procedure about the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on Date.
Successfully appealed all their own sanctions relating to the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on Date.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning USERNAME

Statement by USERNAME

Statement by (username)

Result concerning USERNAME

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

Suggest a speedy close.--Ymblanter (talk) 19:49, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Thargor Orlando

Appealing user: Thargor Orlando (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – Thargor Orlando (talk) 18:36, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Sanction being appealed: Thargor Orlando (talk · contribs) indefinitely topic banned from all edits and discussion regarding User:MarkBernstein and restricted from opening and noticeboard discussions or enforcement requests related to MarkBernstein without the permission of an uninvolved administrator.

Administrator imposing the sanction: Gamaliel (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Notification of that administrator

Statement by Thargor Orlando

Two quick housekeeping notes

Mentions of MarkBernstein in this scenario are for background purposes only, done so under the auspices of "exceptions to limited bans", specifically "appealing the ban" (which I do here and requires discussion of the topic ban to be appealed) and, to a lesser extent, "asking for necessary clarifications about the scope of the ban." This is not an implication of trying to enact any new disciplinary sanctions. I opted not to tag Mark in this proceeding in order to not make further implications on the matter, not to keep anyone in the dark, and any editor that thinks I made the wrong call here is free to tag him.
I assume this is the correct forum for this. If not, a point in the correct direction would be appreciated.

This topic ban was put in place for reasons that are not entirely clear, and certainly not supported by any available evidence. Gamaliel's only real citation comes from this diff, where he claims my assertions are "worse" than what was said, and that Bernstein does not have the opportunity to respond. This was the wrong call on a number of points.

First, Gamaliel takes issues with two quotes, both from this comment. The first quote is "It's further evidence that his contributions are a negative to the article space," which is based on Bernstein's block history, multiple topic bans in the area, and own comments, and seemed self-evident. The context is where Gamaliel's second quote comes from, ""Mark's own intentions in this clarification is to drag the drama he continually creates within the Gamergate space into the campus rape disputes," which was directly related to this clarification request, which discussed Bernstein being approached by an "activist" for a "Misplaced Pages initiative." Given Bernstein's history in the topic space, it seemed incredibly clear to me that this was a blatant attempt to push the boundaries of his existing topic ban (a topic ban initiated by User:Dreadstar that I had no involvement in requesting, I should add) in an area he has clearly shown disruption in.

Gamaliel, in his initial comment, believes we cannot "play nice with each other." This may be granted, although I don't see why we need to "play nice" with what I believe is clear disruption. Gamaliel's claim is that I made "much worse statements about those you are complaining about," but none of those worse statements were provided. Meanwhile, the person I am "complaining about" has, in the past months, implied that I was being "deploy, repeatedly went after me personally with untrue claims (), and so on. This disruption is long-standing, and my statements in support of my point of view regarding his status are based clearly in the history of the situation. Statements cannot occur in a vacuum, the history simply must be taken into account.

As an added problem, the language of the topic ban is overly broad, as Bernstein has injected himself into the conflict in the real world, being quoted multiple times on blogs and having his own words reposted in legitimate media. The spirit of the topic ban suggests that Gamaliel is simply tired of having to hear appeals toward Bernstein's behavior, the wording puts my editing in the article space in jeopardy if an administrator or tendentious editor opts to try to make hay of the situation.

The Gamergate sanctions are in place to reduce the disruption in the article space, not to keep editors from making good-faith and evidence-supported appeals for their use against disruptive editors. Perhaps if my complaints were about an editor without a block and topic ban history in the sanctioned space, there might be some merit to this to discuss. Instead, the route chosen implies that I have done something wrong, tarnishes my otherwise clean record, and does the opposite of the intention of the sanctions by keeping editors in good standing from being able to combat said disruption. The topic ban on me clearly needs to be overturned on its merits.

@Ched: the problem is that no behavior issues have been presented. Without any behavior issues to point to, there's nothing to show improvement on and nothing to address. There is no current guidance in place and no problems demonstrated, thus the immediate appeal. If you have specifics in mind, presenting those would be very helpful toward coming to a conclusion. Thargor Orlando (talk) 19:41, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

@Ched:: Sure, it's "better" in that it's not a topic ban, but it still implies behavioral issues that have not been detailed, and assumes that I need to be restricted in that area without evidence. The issue is not the type of ban, but that the ban exists without cause at all. To clarify, an IBAN would at least eliminate the possibility of edits at an article being used against me simply because Bernstein is quoted in the media, but it doesn't address the broader issue. Thargor Orlando (talk) 20:53, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

@Gamaliel: can you please detail the "five months" of "disparaging comments?" Preferably with diffs so we can move forward on this? You're correct that we have repeatedly, in the proper forums and the proper formats, requested administrative interventions due to his behavior. In a sense, any dispute resolution will be "disparaging," however, so this just seems to be a complaint about our valid concerns about how this particular situation has continued to be handled. Thargor Orlando (talk) 21:07, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

@Gamaliel: my apologies for inadvertently misquoting you. What I'm trying to do is end the disruption, plain and simple. If we want to get down to brass tacks, if he were topic banned as I believe he should be, there would be no reason for me to continue to endorse enforcement requests (you'll note that I have never initiated one with him) because it would be done and over with. WP:BANEX allows him to defend himself, so it's not as if he can't address them, and there is no evidence you're providing that is showing that I'm trying to goad him or talking about him in areas that he cannot respond. In fact, I don't think I've raised anything that he's said or done specifically about me at all, nor am I sure he's actually addressed me in a problematic way since you lifted his block a month ago. The evidence just doesn't stack up in terms of what you believe I've done, which is why I'm not incredibly happy with being hit with the shrapnel as a result. Co-signing on an assertion that someone is continuing to be disruptive in exactly the way you have expressed that you want it to occur after they've assured the block-lifting admin they wouldn't be should not be a sanctionable offense. Thargor Orlando (talk) 21:49, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Gamaliel

What benefit is it to the encyclopedia if these users are allowed to continue to make negative and potentially disparaging statements about Mark Bernstein?

If Mark Bernstein violates rules or sanctions, then they can report that to an administrator. This does not prevent them from seeking redress or reporting a violation, it merely prevents them from complaining about this particular user on the encyclopedia, as they have been doing for at least five months.

There are many editors and administrators on Misplaced Pages. They could simply leave this matter to one of them. This is something we regularly advise people to do on Misplaced Pages. Take the example of NorthBySouthBaranof elsewhere on this page. He is correct that something is wrong at the Lena Dunham article, but he should leave the matter for someone else to handle because his past behavior has proven disruptive in certain areas, just as the past interactions of these editors with Mark Bernstein have increased tensions and disrupted the atmosphere of collaborative editing. Gamaliel (talk) 20:57, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

@Ched: That is correct, the ban does not prevent interactions between DHeyward and Orlando. I believe I clarified that in the messages on their respective talk pages and the sanctions log, but if either are ambiguous I will correct them. I chose a topic ban over an interaction ban because I did not want to inhibit article discussion, just personal remarks. I have no particular objection to changing it if others think it necessary. Gamaliel (talk) 21:03, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

@Thargor Orlando: You have quoted me in a manner that changes the meaning of what I said. I did not say that the two of you have been insulting Mark Bernstein for five months. You have, however, been enthusiastic users of noticeboards and admin talk pages in an effort to get him sanctioned, and in the process said many things about him that were negative. Some of them were true, others were opinions that are valid, but may be interpreted negatively. During most of this, Mark Bernstein has been under a topic ban or other restriction which has prevented him from replying in kind, and any comment of his that is remotely like some of the things you have said about him gets another round of noticeboard reports about him, along with another opportunity for you to recapitulate your negative opinions about him. Rightly or wrongly, he perceives this as a series of attacks upon him, and has now resorted to filing retaliatory noticeboard complaints against the two of you. And then we do it all over again. This is the cycle that this sanction is attempting to stop. Gamaliel (talk) 21:23, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

@DHeyward: So prohibiting you from participating in endless noticeboard complaints "prolongs the drama" by forcing you to file a noticeboard complaint? Gamaliel (talk) 00:19, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by DHeyward

I, too, am maligned by the same topic ban by Gamaliel with not a single diff which I consider casting aspersions. Further, my contribution to this was that I brought MarkBernsteins comments to two uninvolved administrators. I did not characterize which statements were problematic but both admins sanctioned MarkBernstein for them including one topic ban. This is the remedy Gamaliel has proposed as the solution but when it led to the TBan of an editor he is sympathetic to, he seems to want to take it out on editors not involved in that. As can be seen, Gamaliel's remedy led to MarkBernstein filing an ARCA reuest, an ANI request, and two AE requests. Neither I nor Orlando have filed. In addition, another editor has filed an AE request against MarkBernstein. In response, MarkBernstein repeated the statements that led to his sanction. Gamaliel seems to be confused as to who is filing requests for enforcement. There is simply no basis for his sanction. In addition MarkBernstein was prohibited from filing AE requests per WP:BANEX. Gamaliel, being the first commenter and admin should have closed the AE request rather than stoking its flames. --DHeyward (talk) 18:58, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Ched Echoing Orlando. Gamaliel has implies it's a three way IBAN issue when really it's a single topic-banned editor (who is again at AE). Gamaliel put a lot of things in quotes without saying who and where they were said. In short, I did everything Gamaliel requested. There are no noticeboard complaints started by me over these issues. I took my concerns about a comment to two independent admins and both acted on it. Those administrative actions drove one editor to open multiple forum requests including ANI, ARCA, and two AE requests. In addition, another editor has brought an AE request against him and you can read his reply . None of this has anything to do with Orlando and me. I had already done everything Gamaliel thinks I should have done and if I didn't, he hasn't provided any diffs. I have no problem with an an on-your-honor agreement but logging it as if I have an interaction issue with anyone misconstrues everything that has occurred here. Certainly there is no conflict between Orlando and I which is implied in the sanction. It has no basis. If Gamaliel's intention was to avoid drama and conflict, he should withdraw his sanction that is not based in either process or fact and let it close. EdJohnston nailed the deficiencies in the request. MarkBernstein is already topic banned so creating a sanction that both Orlando and I will appeal is only dragging out the problem needlessly. --DHeyward (talk) 20:11, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Gamaliel I did that. How do you think MarkBernstein received a topic ban? It was by notifying two uninvolved admins. I've only responded to his AE charges that he brought to noticeboards. There are no noticeboard filings by me over this and there are no quotes you cited that he can't or didn't respond to. It seems rather an odd statement to say that my replies to MarkBernstein's noticeboard filings about me somehow have put him at a disadvantage. Where are imagining this happening? I've asked for diff's yet none are forthcoming. You made statements and put quotes around them but without attribution. EdJohnston is correct in his assessment. You should have ended the drama by closing his two WP:BANEX violating AE requests instead of feeding them. It is your sanction, without merit, that is dragging this out. Like I said, I have no intention of bringing MarkBernstein to boards and didn't so your solution is really in search of a problem. --DHeyward (talk) 21:11, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Gamaliel diffs or please stop casting aspersions. Posting notices on uninvolved admins pages that have invoked sanctions on MB is NOT any kind of abuse of process. Participating in discussions where we have been the targets of his comments about editors is NOT any kind of abuse of process. I am sorry that you are upset about MBs topic ban and believe it is one-sided but you need to take it up with Dreadstar, not punish his victims. Please explain what behavior you think would be stopped by this sanction? We will still ask admins to intervene if MarkBernstein is abusive. Uninvolved admins will still sanction him. Your insistence only prolongs the drama. If you read the comments of the other admins for both cases MarkBernstein filed, you seem the only one thinking sanctions are needed. Even in Orlando's, that was summarily closed because MarkBernstein is TBanned from even making AE complaints, you still called for sanctions when others correctly saw a process error as well as nothing to warrant a sanction. Please don't make this a full on drama appeal over a sanction that does nothing but tarnish reputations and extend drama. --DHeyward (talk) 00:00, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Gamaliel Diffs or stop casting aspersions. A groundless sanction that wouldn't have stopped a single thing you claim to be worried out will be appealed. You have made an accusation of wrongdoing and keep mentioning board participation. I only ask for diffs which you don't supply because they don't tell the story you've been selling.. We wouldn't be here or at any boards because of me and I request you remove the sanction. Close it with no sanctions and there is no more drama. It ended with Mark's TBan. The sanction is unnecessary and I take offense at being painted with your broad brush without so much as a diff showing how your remedy would have played out differently or what egregious error in civility I made. --DHeyward (talk) 00:30, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Here is the first request filed by MB. Note Gamaliel was the first admin to comment on how one-sided MB's TBan is and how his TBan should be dropped (or everyone is TBanned). Luckily cooler heads dismissed it. Moments later, MB files another AE based on comments I made in his first AE. The cooler heads did not join until later and advocated that Gamaliel at least provide a diff and also pointed out the complaint was a BANEX violation by MB. No such luck on the diff. --DHeyward (talk) 00:43, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (involved editor 2)

Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Thargor Orlando

Result of the appeal by Thargor Orlando

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

My suggestion is that everyone put down the shovels, stop digging, accept the current restrictions, and edit productively in areas where you're not restricted. Furthering this situation is more likely to lead to extended blocks than it is to any sort of "ok, go do what you want" result. It is typical that DR solutions begin with less harsh restrictions; but, if that fails then more drastic restrictions will be put in place to ensure a less disruptive atmosphere on the project. If after a period of time (months, not hours) there's evidence that proper behavior can be adhered to, perhaps discuss it with an admin. active in that particular area. In other words: I suggest you take your ball and go play in another yard - before we take the ball away all together. — Ched : ? 19:37, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

question Would it help if the wording were changed from "WP:TBAN" to "WP:IBAN"? — Ched : ? 20:46, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

note I don't believe that Gamaliel's solution is intended to mean that DHeyward and Orlando must not interact with each other, but rather "both" must avoid MB. I've seen no indication that there are any issues with DHeyward and Orlando interactions. — Ched : ? 20:53, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Marcos12

Blocked 1 week for 1RR vio. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 10:16, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Request concerning Marcos12 User who is submitting this request for enforcement Aquillion (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 05:26, 14 March 2015 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested Marcos12 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log Sanction or remedy to be enforced Misplaced Pages:Arbitration_Committee/Discretionary_sanctions/Log#GamerGate : Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it Marcos12 has repeatedly violated the 1RR discretionary sanction placed on Gamergate controversy. The most recent one, involving repeatedly reverting the lead to remove the word 'some', which he objects to: 16:01, 13 March 2015 First revert 19:52, 13 March 2015 Second revert 00:16, 14 March 2015 Third revert A related one slightly earlier, over how to describe or qualify the same section of the lead; in this case he did attempt rewordings, but I feel he was substantially reverting the thrust of the other person's edits (and intended to do so), especially with the first two: 13:25, 10 March 2015 First revert 13:41, 10 March 2015 Second revert 15:32, 10 March 2015 Third revert? 20:19, 10 March 2015 Fourth revert? And an earlier one, for which he was warned (link to warning below): 21:45, 23 February 2015 First revert 21:50, 23 February 2015 Second revert Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any 17:30, 24 February 2015 Previous warning for a 1RR rule violation on the same page. If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts) Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, see the system log linked to above. Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested Here. Discussion concerning Marcos12 Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks. Statement by Marcos12 Statement by (username) Result concerning Marcos12 This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above. Given that they have been warned for breaching 1RR in the past I've gone for a week long block. It's quite likely that next time will be a TBAN. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 10:16, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Blocked 1 week for 1RR vio. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 10:16, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Request concerning Marcos12

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Aquillion (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 05:26, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: Marcos12 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Misplaced Pages:Arbitration_Committee/Discretionary_sanctions/Log#GamerGate :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Marcos12 has repeatedly violated the 1RR discretionary sanction placed on Gamergate controversy.

The most recent one, involving repeatedly reverting the lead to remove the word 'some', which he objects to:

16:01, 13 March 2015 First revert
19:52, 13 March 2015 Second revert
00:16, 14 March 2015 Third revert

A related one slightly earlier, over how to describe or qualify the same section of the lead; in this case he did attempt rewordings, but I feel he was substantially reverting the thrust of the other person's edits (and intended to do so), especially with the first two:

13:25, 10 March 2015 First revert
13:41, 10 March 2015 Second revert
15:32, 10 March 2015 Third revert?
20:19, 10 March 2015 Fourth revert?

And an earlier one, for which he was warned (link to warning below):

21:45, 23 February 2015 First revert
21:50, 23 February 2015 Second revert

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

17:30, 24 February 2015 Previous warning for a 1RR rule violation on the same page.

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, see the system log linked to above.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Here.

Discussion concerning Marcos12

Statement by Marcos12

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Marcos12

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

Given that they have been warned for breaching 1RR in the past I've gone for a week long block. It's quite likely that next time will be a TBAN. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 10:16, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

HistoryofIran

Request concerning HistoryofIran

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Parishan (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 12:20, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: HistoryofIran (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2 :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

User:HistoryofIran for a long time has been displaying an aggressive belligerent approach to editing Misplaced Pages articles dealing with the history of Iran and the Caucasus which has also prompted him on several occasions to edit-war, as well as resort to incivility in relation to other users.

Despite being placed on 1RR and civility supervision back in October 2013, this user continues to edit in the exact same manner that has earned him this restriction.

1RR restriction violated at Paykar Khan Igirmi Durt: , (he claimed reverting vandalism, but later admitted on the talkpage that it was not vandalism), Atropatene: , .

Typical examples of violating WP:CIVILITY include him defining good-faith edits that he disagrees with as 'vandalism' and the contributors as 'vandals' who are out to 'annoy hard-working contributors such as ': , , , addressing users in a disrespectfully informal manner ('dude') , getting extremely personal instead of addressing issues raised due to his edit-warring , and making other kinds of patronising, condescending and offensive remarks in edit summaries: , , , . Interestingly, even the information supported by reliable sources such as Encyclopedia Iranica is not only removed, but referred to as 'vandalism' , accompanied with an inappropriate comment in the edit summary.

After being warned for incivility once , he persisted in making sarcastic references to the user's 'poor feelings' in every message he addressed to them for the duration of the discussion (even if the incilivity issue was not further addressed), to the point of turning it into the focal point of the entire discussion: , .

I would like admins to pay attention to the aggressive confrontational language that the user permits himself in a discussion: , , . One can see that the other user did a very good job remaining civil until the end, hence HistoryofIran's reaction along the lines of phrases such as 'facepalm', 'your broken English' and 'understood?' was completely unprovoked.

In violation of WP:OWN, he refers to articles as 'his own' and uses his experience editing Misplaced Pages as an argument in favour of his version: .

I also suggest that admins take note of the manner in which this user refers to fellow contributors and to his own role in bringing about Misplaced Pages at the very top of his talk page: . While I appreciate the efforts of those who genuinely try to contribute to improving the content of articles on Misplaced Pages, I do not believe that they should be blinded by glory at the site of many barnstars that other users award them and use their active participation in the project as an excuse to bring others down.

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

The user was previously placed on 1RR restriction, supervised editing and civility supervision and is aware of that .

Keeping in mind that this user has been blocked eight times in the past two years (including three times in the past year after being placed on the aforementioned restrictions, most recently a few weeks ago) for a period between 24 and 72 hours, mainly for edit-warring, and vows to continue to 'revert a lot of stuff' in the future, I suggest an indefinite ban, as I consider this user's attitude unacceptable and unconstructive in improving the quality of Misplaced Pages articles, especially if he fails at the very first thing which makes a discussion productive: simple polite communication.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning HistoryofIran

Statement by HistoryofIran

Statement by (username)

Result concerning HistoryofIran

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.