Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Worm That Turned (talk | contribs) at 10:30, 31 March 2015 (→Review of recent blocks: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

OccultZone (talk · contribs · logs · email · block log · global contribs)

Sockpuppet problem

I have now put out a request to both you and ZhanZhao on http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia_talk:Sockpuppet_investigations to add me on Skype so we can have a group call and clear up this confusion. I hope that you both will accept my request. 49.244.254.201 (talk) 12:55, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

This is Bargolus by the way, see how easy it is to forget to log-in by mistake? Bargolus (talk) 12:56, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar
	For your new page patrolling; it's most appreciated! Ironholds (talk) 12:40, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Glad to have recognition. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 13:15, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Why are you deleting my edits?

please explain!

thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaggajat (talk • contribs) 20:45, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

@Jaggajat: Which article you are referring to? OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 23:35, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Meaning

Pages using duplicate arguments in template calls.?--Vin09 (talk) 17:14, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

If same argument has been passed more than one. It will fall under the Category:Pages using duplicate arguments in template calls. It is not very easy to discover, thus there is a script called User:Frietjes/findargdups. Recommended. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 17:24, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

ANI

I started an ANI discussion. See HERE.VictoriaGrayson 18:54, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Consider linking to the SPI. Thanks. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 18:55, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

sock

@OccultZone:Is it correct format for filing sock.--Vin09 (talk) 18:57, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

It is unclear and it looks like you are only mentioning some of their edits. You have to outline that how multiple accounts are abused by the editor in question and it should be more than just "revert" or editing same articles. You can provide diffs that show a similar type of behavior. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 19:04, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

So, how to withdraw sock investigation. See this edit--Vin09 (talk) 07:54, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

You can write on the SPI that you are withdrawing the report. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 08:59, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for March 6

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Misplaced Pages appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Louis Sette, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Broadcaster (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 08:58, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Categories for years in literature

I can't see any harm in doing that - probably a good idea. Deb (talk) 11:50, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Check

Merge proposal is genuine? Also check this--Vin09 (talk) 05:59, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

You can expand these articles. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 06:01, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

I don't have any idea of later but the former is just a list which I have cleaned and looking somewhat good. Else it was a long list like a directory.--Vin09 (talk) 06:16, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

• Can we name it as List of educational......--Vin09 (talk) 06:17, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

  You can start a page move request. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 06:19, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Casual

Just a casual question. Where are you from?, wanted to ask from long time. Will wiki permit such casual questions?--Vin09 (talk) 10:59, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

• Balija dynasties did I de-orphaned it? pls check it?--Vin09 (talk) 05:11, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

It is still backed by Balija. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 07:35, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

didn't get you?--Vin09 (talk) 08:51, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

• now* backed by Balija. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 09:58, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

backed means linked? right?--Vin09 (talk) 10:00, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Right. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 10:03, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

You didn't answer the first line. That's OK if you aren't interested. Fine.--Vin09 (talk) 11:14, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Gordon Lowden and J. Alastair Montgomerie

Hi there, Many thanks for reviewing some of my recent articles. Could you please review the above articles, when you have time. Many thanks.Gomach (talk) 16:24, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

 Done OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 16:27, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Orphan

To de-orphan an article, on the destination article we need to introduce the source (orphan) article name link?--Vin09 (talk) 09:49, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Yes you have to create a backlink of an orphaned article. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 11:58, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussion

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Misplaced Pages's policy on edit warring. The thread is Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring#User:TCKTKtool reported by User:Padenton (Result: ). Thank you.

March 2015

During a dispute, you should first try to discuss controversial changes and seek consensus. If that proves unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek dispute resolution, and in some cases it may be appropriate to request page protection.  Swarm 00:30, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

@Swarm: Have you counted? I had made 2 reverts in last 2 days because they concerned WP:BLPCRIME. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 01:35, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

OccultZone (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

I had made only two reverts in 34 hours,, because they concerned WP:BLPCRIME. In fact I was the one to open discussion right after first revert, check . OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 7:37 pm, Yesterday (UTC−6)

Accept reason:

I see no reason for Swarm (talk · contribs)'s block. No prior warning was given. Two reverts in a five days, one of which I can understand (rape of 71-year old nun) doesn't make a pattern or warrant a block. Bgwhite (talk) 06:50, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

First of all, I had made only 2 reverts in last 34 hours. Let me explain you some of other aspects that even if I had made more reverts, I was still exempted from the 3rr.

Removal of any unproven and non-notable allegations about living persons is allowed.

Reverting an obvious sock puppet is another exemption from 3rr. Proof of reverting the sock puppet was the ANEW thread itself where we had discussed the sock puppetry.

My edits were also removing the COPYVIO, check , Zhanzhao has plagiarized them.

Swarm, I have to ask you, how you could make these blocks without even reading the complaint of WP:ANEW or without checking the content in question? OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 05:16, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Swarm, he's only made two reverts over two days (not counting the initial removal of the information). 72 hours seems high for someone with no previous block log or formal warnings on their talk page. Can you clarify your block reasoning for me? Ed  05:56, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

I also have emailed to JamesBWatson with additional details. I hope he will look into this matter. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 05:58, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Sorry to jump in on this, but since I'm being brought into this by OccultZone, I'd like to point out that I was not the one who added the copyvio text, I just reverted content that is pre-written before. The onus is on you, OccultZone, to point out which post I, personally, was supposed to plagiarised, since you are accusing me of it. I am fairly certain that somewhere earlier in the history of the article, you will notice that someone else was the one who originally added that. My fault and mistake, as is Swarms, might have been to not notice that it was copyvio, which can easily be addressed with copyediting, if you would have only pointed that out earlier that it was a copyvio issue than all the other tangents you were going off on. Zhanzhao (talk) 06:06, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

It will be you who will be considered as the violator of the copyrights since you were eager to restore the content that is also violating a good bunch of policies. In fact Zhanzhao, it is more clearer that you were abusing that IP and the new account for keeping your preferred content. Given your history of abusing sock puppets on this article and propagating your views without making any disagreement with other violator of WP:BLPCRIME, WP:CON, and other guidelines. It is simply obvious. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 06:10, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Gauntlet thrown, challenge accepted. Please do file another SPI, cos I'm 100% sure I will be vindicated. In return, I expect you to apologize to me after its been proven that those were not my socks. And the administrator/clerk who does the Checkuser should also point out that OccultZone has been making frivalous sock accusations when things does not go his way. Deal? PS: I've copyedited the identified copyvio writeup, so thats not an issue anymore. The attack on the swiss takes key points, but is written quite differently from the source. Next time, if you're concerned about copyvio, JUSt SAY SO.Zhanzhao (talk) 06:35, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

I understand that you are using an outdated excuse of "copyediting" for deflecting from the gross BLP violation that you are committing on that article and using socks. I mean you could've disagreed to some degree with other blatant sock account, but why you would disagree with yourself? It was proven that you were violating the WP:ILLEGIT policy and you are still doing it now. If they hadn't sympathised and considered that you were aware of WP:SOCK guidelines since you were blocked a few years ago for evading your block, none of us would've been blocked today for removing your content that has violated WP:BLPCRIME, WP:COPYVIO, WP:NOTABILITY. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 06:43, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

• Thanks Bgwhite! I have analyzed the issue a bit more. I've checked that Swarm's other blocks are also objectionable.

• Vtk1987(2 reverts)
• Human3015(1 revert)
• Padeton(2 reverts)

While WP:ANEW requires 3-4 reverts in last 24 hours, Padenton was the one to address this edit war, he was discussing the issue and he was not going back to restore his version. They all were avoiding the violation WP:BLPCRIME, WP:COPYVIO, WP:ILLEGIT and removing the non-notable events. They were equally opposing a 3rr evading IP who recently created a new account, TCKTKtool, called other editor(Vtk1987) a sock and continued to violate the these policies.

After Swarm had blocked me, he went back to change the block settings, for explaining the reason that why he was blocking. It tells his actions are riddled with faults. I don't think that Swarm had even thought of protecting the page, and even if a non-admin editor would've thought of making 6 blocks even after agreeing that IP was evading 3rr with account. I am inclined to believe that if Swarm is not capable of understanding the stuff before making these blocks, then he don't deserve that admin bit. I am also thinking of taking this to ArbCOM. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 06:57, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

@Swarm, Padenton, Zhanzhao, and Human3015: Occult, I don't know Swarm and this certainly doesn't arise to taking it to ArbCOM. I see no malice in Swarm's actions. I personally would have protected the page (I just did for 72 hours) and blocked TCKTKtool, but other admins would probably agree some more blocks were warranted. I do not understand the block of you, Padeton or Human3015. If you and Padeton got blocked, Zhanzhao should also be blocked for reverting too. In the end, Swarm made a judgement call. This shouldn't go any further.

I'm conflicted on unblocking Padeton and Human3015 because I'm in territory I've never been in. If I unblocked Occult, then I should be fair and unblock them too. However, Occult, Padeton, Zhanzhao and Human3015 are at fault. While I don't think it reached block level, all four of you were involved in an edit warring. On the plus side, a talk discussion did get started. Towards the end, it got confusing with a sock puppet entering the fray. I think with the sock puppet entering, things completely broke down and went to hell.

Zhanzhao, thank you for taking this matter to DRN. I wouldn't have done the revert you did at the end, but DRN was the right call. Bgwhite (talk) 07:57, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Actually TCKTKtool was the one who brought it to DRN. But I posted on the Talk page of the article in question about the DRN, just to keep everyone in the loop. As for OccuoltZone taking popshots at me being TCKTKtool/IP's sock or vice versa, do feel free to run a thorough check on me against them. Guess its too much to hope for a gentlemanly apology after its proven to be unfounded? Zhanzhao (talk) 08:06, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

After multiple instances of socking, you must have learned new ways. Given your history of socking on this article and behavior, it is simply obvious. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 08:19, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Vtk1987 and Padeton had made only 2 reverts. While Human3015 made one revert. Yes they should be unblocked because the article is now protected. This SPI explains how Zhanzhao, TCKTKtool and IP are same person. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 08:00, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

I am highly wondering that why Swarm or anyone would make these malformed blocks, and go offline right after I had pinged him on my talk page. He is usually online at this time but due to some reasons(that we don't know of) he has not yet responded. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 08:19, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

OccultZone, stop taking potshots at Zhanzhao. You only filed a case and nothing is proven. You do owe Zhanzhao and apology for saying they are a sockpuppet and that they are wikilawyering. If they are a sockpuppet, then you gloat at seeing the blocked message on their user page, otherwise stop. In this latest round, Zhanzhao has done nothing wrong except for their last revert. You have made the unfounded accusations.

I also told you to drop about being blocked. Stop accusing Swarm of "malformed blocks" and any other conspiracy theories. Swarm live in Florida and is asleep, which I'm about to go do.

Drop it. Bgwhite (talk) 09:11, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

I did that because even for making an allegation, one has to be sure about it. Good night and I will surely see what will happen next. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 09:14, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

• The accusations here are ridiculous. Of course I spent a significant amount of time fully reviewing the situation, just as I would any other ANEW report (something Bgwhite apparently didn't do, as their unblocking rationale doesn't even make sense). Do you really think I just arbitrarily slapped you with a 3 day block for two reverts because I hate you? You've been edit warring over that content for quite a protracted period of time and were continuing the same edit war as of the ANEW report. ANEW doesn't require any certain number of reverts, contrary to that untrue and ridiculous claim that 3-4 reverts are required. An edit war can contain multiple parties on each side (and in this case, did) and that does not excuse editors from participating in the edit war, and editors can be blocked without violating WP:3RR. The block (and every other one) was perfectly in accordance with blocking and edit warring policy. BLPCRIME is meant to prevent harm to persons accused of committing crimes. Your BLP defense is debatable at best and it's certainly not a "gross" violation. Sources were provided and no living persons were identified in the text, thus the argument that it was in dire need of removal to prevent harm isn't a particularly strong one. BLPCRIME isn't a blanket ban on any mention of allegations of crime in an article. Next, the article is under discretionary sanctions and any uninvolved administrator is authorized to impose blocks (or other sanctions) to facilitate the smooth running of the project. I'm not sure whether you're aware of this so I declined to invoke it, but just as an aside, a higher standard of collaborative conduct is expected on that article, especially from editors who should know better. Another thing, no warning was given? Seriously? Apart from the fact that there's no requirement to warn someone before blocking them for edit warring (in fact policy specifically states that a warning is not required), you shouldn't need a warning, as you're supposed to be familiar with that policy already. Lastly, feel free to elaborate on which text was a copyvio. Obviously you can remove copyvios without it being considered edit warring. However I find it hard to believe that all of that text you were edit warring over was in copyright violation. I'll let this go as I don't really care that much, but just to be clear, I completely reject your arrogant, self-righteous condemnation of the block as abuse of the tools and stand behind it as fully in accordance with policy. Swarm 15:23, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

• ANEW report requires at least 3-4 reverts in 24 hours, not just 2 reverts in last 5 days and not those edits that were removing the violation of WP:BLPCRIME, WP:NOTABILITY, WP:COPYVIO all together. There were concerns about the obvious sock puppetry that you haven't even mentioned in your explanation. Your claims regarding the "protracted period" are also incorrect, I had made 4 edits in last 8 days. Yes it is necessary that the editor had to violate the 3rr or made a few reverts in a small period of time, you cannot block someone for making only 1 edit in more than 30 hours. ANEW board also reads that an editor has to be warned before they would be even reported. Where I was reported? Just point me out. Can you find any warning for edit warring since they day I have joined en.wiki or even last few months? We are aware of discretionary sanctions, and also know that how it works, but first let us complete the discussion about WP:ANEW/3RR and how it works? I had also listed 3 other editors that you blocked for reverting an obvious sock, and only about 1 - 2 times under 24 hours. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 17:33, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
• @Swarm: Occult, Swarm is completely correct in stating that 3RR etc. doesn't require three reverts. Swarm, perhaps in the future you could note that in the block template? Putting a stop to what you believe is a long-term period of disruption is much different (in my eyes) than the standard definition of edit warring, and I suspect Bgwhite may have been confused by your interchanging of the two. Moreover, this may just be my opinion, but a block for something like that should be prefaced with a warning; there's no obvious step over the line like 3RR. Best, Ed  18:10, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

• 3rr doesn't require 3 reverts, it can be also 4 reverts in 48 hours. But then again, 2 reverts in 2 days is certainly not edit warring, or 4 edits in 8 days. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 18:13, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

• You weren't reported, and you didn't need to be. You weren't warned, and again, you didn't need to be. And again, while 3rr is a brightline that you're not even accused of crossing, edit warring isn't defined by a certain number of reverts in a certain period of time. It's defined as "repeatedly each other's contributions". Slow-moving edit wars involving multiple parties are no more productive or exempt from policy than one editor who violates 3rr immediately. Of course 2 reverts in 2 days does not necessarily demand a block for edit warring. However your self-victimization as if that's the reason you were blocked is simply not on point. You were one of many editors involved in this edit war, and you were blocked for your role just like the rest, having performed at least nine reverts this month alone over this issue (one two three four five six seven eight nine), with plenty more repeated examples of you reverting additions of "non-notable" incidents lasting over the course of several months. For that, your behavior stood out as among the most problematic within the scope of the incident I was reviewing and you were given a longer block. True, you're clearly a serious editor in good standing with a good reputation, and I appreciate that. And there's no beating around the bush regarding the fact that well-established editors routinely get special treatment and much more leniency from administrators, which is why I'm not surprised by your unblock nor very torn up about it. But again, I can say with 100% confidence that this block was perfectly justifiable, and your blatantly vested attitude, along with your accusations of abuse and threats regarding ArbCom were so far beyond the pale that it's shocking. And that, coupled with your complete failure to understand what problematic behavior might've gotten you blocked in the first place completely convinces me that this immediate unblock without any consultation with the blocking administrator was nothing short of a bad move. No hard feelings, though. Swarm 19:59, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

• Edit warring is also defined by the type of edit that has been made and if it is exempted from the 3rr or not. What made you count 9 edits as 9 reverts? Have you even checked that most of those edits concerned the same policies(WP:BLPCRIME, WP:COPYVIO) and I was also reversing a sock puppet who often misrepresented the sources. I was not even alone.(Not to talk about the sort of information that he was adding) That's something that you have again not addressed in your message when you were recently asked to do so. How many revisions I had made in last 30 days including the previous month? Have we counted it? Or how many reverts I had made in last 60 days? Not even 12. I am amazed that you are ignoring the violation of WP:ILLEGIT by other editor. Then again, your blocks didn't just involved me but also other 3 editors who you blocked for reverting an obvious sock. They didn't reverted for more than once or twice. Reverting an obvious sock is another exemption like I have told you, and when you had already considered an IP and an account as one person, you should not even count any reverts against the sock puppet 'revisions' per WP:SOCK. In both of the messages, you have sure made repetitive explanations to justify these blocks and they are not compelling. Let me also point your another misrepresentation, can you provide how listing any non-notable allegations is actually policy based? We don't list every incident unless the involved entity has own article or the incident has it's own article. When you are making multiple incorrect blocks and you are still not understanding that you cannot block anyone without even learning about the whole situation, the exemptions, without even counting the amount of revisions, and without even looking into the content in question, anyone would want to think about your understanding of blocks. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 22:34, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

• OccultZone, unfortunately when you asked me to look at the block, I was away from home without internet access, which is why I didn't respond. I see the block has been lifted, but I have had a quick look anyway. (It has had to be a quick look, as right now I have very little time.) I must say that on the basis of my quick check (which included checking all the edits that Swarm posted above) I have not seen anything that looks to me like edit-warring. Yes, over the course of several weeks you made several edits that reverted other editors, but most of them were reverts of quite different material. It is true a number of reverts spread over a long period can be edit-warring, but only if the reverts are so closely related as to effectively amount to continuing the same dispute over essentially the same content, and that really does not seem to be the case. It would be absurd to extend the concept of edit-warring to cover a number of unrelated edits over a long period, just because they all undo something done by some other editors. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 20:01, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Arbitration Case Opened

You were recently listed as a party to a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Collect and others. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Collect and others/Evidence. Please add your evidence by April 7, 2015, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Collect and others/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, Robert McClenon (talk) 21:08, 24 March 2015 (UTC) Robert McClenon (talk) 21:08, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Best of luck to all! OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 22:48, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

American politics 2 arbitration case opened

Pursuant to section 3a of an arbitration motion, you were recently listed as a party to a request for arbitration. Please note: being listed as a party does not imply any wrongdoing nor mean that there will necessarily be findings of fact or remedies regarding that party. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/American politics 2. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/American politics 2/Evidence. Please add your evidence by April 14, 2015, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/American politics 2/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, --L235 (t / c / ping in reply) by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:57, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Good decision. I hadn't really hoped for two different cases. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 12:07, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

It is sad to see what is happening...

I have not seen WP more block happy than what I've seen in the past few months. All this business with ARBCOM, AE, and the like. DS have gone wild. Guidelines taking precedence over policy. Bossy admins I've never had the occasion to collaborate with on an article, so they are complete strangers. And I used to be quite respectful of the position, but that is slowly changing because of the discrimination and abuse. I was just accused of violating OR policy over a post on a TP so it isn't even applicable!! And now poor Collect has to go through this ARB mess. Atsme☯ 05:39, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

20th century in music‎

Hi! I noticed You added cat 20th century in music‎ in over 100 pages. I think you should have not since every page already belongs in a more specific category. For example, 1998 in music already belongs in the cat 1998 in music which is a direct sub-category of the 20th century in music category. What do you think? -- Magioladitis (talk) 08:47, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

That's correct. However we are trying to manage all of the categories. A nice example would be 1998 in Ireland, check the categories. That means Category:1990s in music can be also added to 1998 in music. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 08:53, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

It's also wrong. I refer to WP:SUBCAT and I recall back in 2006 (approx.) there was a discussion about it. Otherwise, the category tree gets a lot of duplicates. -- Magioladitis (talk) 13:45, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

You must be correct. Check Misplaced Pages talk:Categorization#Categorization of Years articles. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 15:16, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Can you help in removing the categories then? Thanks, Magioladitis (talk) 07:28, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

Should we inform Misplaced Pages:WikiProject_Years first? So that their active editors can also share the opinion on the above thread of the guideline about categorization. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 07:30, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

Yes, sure. We may need the extra help! -- Magioladitis (talk) 07:45, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

Talkback

― Padenton|✉   23:12, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Journalists of The Guardian

The article Journalists of The Guardian has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

If anything, this should be a list called List of journalists of The Guardian. Instead, this is a list in article format, albeit extremely incomplete. The Guardian#Notable regular contributors (past and present) is more complete (but problematic in and of itself). This page also has no criteria for notability, and would therefore be very unwieldy to expand and maintain.

Better yet, we could just let this exist as it already does under Category:The Guardian journalists.

TL;DR: WP:N, WP:CFORK

While all constructive contributions to Misplaced Pages are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. TritonsRising (talk) 07:18, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

@TritonsRising: In the light of this AfD, we had discovered that it is nearly impossible to have second hand sources on many of the journalist articles other than those that have been majorly written by the subject of the article. If you think that the article should be called "List of journalists of The Guardian", you can move the article to this proposed title yourself. Thanks. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 07:25, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

@OccultZone: Fair enough. I'll retract the PROD. I don't think a list would be particularly informative either, though. Thanks! TritonsRising (talk) 07:29, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

March 2015

During a dispute, you should first try to discuss controversial changes and seek consensus. If that proves unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek dispute resolution, and in some cases it may be appropriate to request page protection.  Bgwhite (talk) 21:05, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

You reverted seven times in a two hour period. There is no excuse for that. In addition, I'm getting close to doing a civility block for accusing people of being socks when the SPI report came up with nothing. Stop accusing people at Talk:Rape in India. Either you discuss what is at hand or you keep silent, no attacks. I highly suggest you walk away from Rape in India for awhile. Bgwhite (talk) 21:11, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

DoRD had told the concerning IP to stop abusing IP for further abuse of WP:ILLEGIT. And you are yourself aware of it. He even blocked one of the sock recently. Are you saying that the potential sock puppetry of this article must be ignored and no one should talk about it? Well that is how others would think if they have been redirected to this page, even if they have got proofs. Also the SPI has further strengthened with more evidences, you cannot treat a old SPI or old evidences as a rationale for a block or rejection of ongoing sock puppetry.

You also know that you are highly involved in this article and you are asking me to "walk away" from it. You have made major edits on this article recently and you have also discussed your edits. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 23:47, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

OccultZone (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

I had already stopped reverting at the IP's talk page per my own admission on multiple namespaces. How much more proof you require? You are using this block for influencing an article where you are heavily involved especially when you are asking me to "walk away" from an article where I hadn't edit warred. :Still I would tell the background. Originally I had the doubt if the IP,(that was being abused for socking, per this CU's and behavioral evidence) is even allowed to revert on their talk page or not. ::If I had to edit war on IP's talk page with intention, I wouldn't be even asking to Kuru if IPs are allowed to revert or not. Neither I would've stopped after reading his comment. And I had already left a dummy note in edit summary because I knew that this can be further used for blocking me if I don't clarify it well.
 ::Didn't I made every single attempt to avoid block? And any circumstances of others believing that I was edit warring or having even a single doubt that I was actually edit warring or wanted to continue? I had myself admitted that I wasn't aware. But you are using that obvious accident as a rationale for block, because you want to influence decision of an article where you are WP:INVOLVED. :Was there any warning on my talk page regarding this edit warring on IP's talk page? You had once said yourself above in a block that "No prior warning was given". ::Furthermore, check my 50 or more edits from last 4 hours? Were they reversion on IP's talk page? Nope. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 22:33, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

Accept reason:

The edit warring had already stopped at 17:55, as OccultZone finally understood that it was okay for the IP to remove the block notice. Diannaa (talk) 01:02, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

Also I had myself asked Kuru if IPs are allowed to revert or not, I wasn't being told that I should stop reverting and I had stopped reverting already. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 22:47, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

OccultZone hi. I only came here to tell you that you need to WP:KEEPCOOL. -- Magioladitis (talk) 23:50, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

• Bgwhite, the edit warring had already stopped at 17:55, as OccultZone finally understood that it was okay for the IP to remove the block notice (the block did not take place until 21:06). I'm not sure you should have blocked OccultZone regardless, as you might be considered involved, due to your editing on Rape in India and its talk page. I am unblocking now. -- Diannaa (talk) 01:02, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

Further examination

First we will discuss the background. Bgwhite has made major edits to the article called Rape in India. He has also made major discussions on this article's TP.

The points listed below occurred in less than 16 hours.

• On 06:02, 29 March 2015, Bgwhite first reverted to his preferred version, then he protected this article, even after knowing that he was not allowed to protect this article, and certainly not as "persistent vandalism", since none of these edits were WP:VANDALISM.
• On 08:27, 29 March 2015, he imposed full protection, and he had reverted to his version. His reason was again "persistent vandalism", though there was still no vandalism.
• During this same day, I had an edit war on the UTP of a IP sock who was vandalizing atleast one namespace, and he got blocked after he himself filed a report on AN3. Before he was blocked, I had doubts if WP:DENY applies on the UTP of IPsock as well, I myself attempted to ask the admin who had blocked this IP, that whether an IP is allowed to remove messages from talk or not. You can see that I accepted his rationale and I tried to make every attempt to avoid anyone from thinking that I was going to revert, I even left a dummy note in the edit summary that the previous edits that were opposing my reverts are correct.

However, 4 hours(3 hours and 59 minutes) later, Bgwhite blocked me for 24 hours and for something that he never discussed nor I was warned by anyone. He is not addressing that how reverting was totally intended or I was still reverting. But Bgwhite told me to "walk away from Rape in India", he also told me to stop addressing about sock puppetry that includes this kind of IP hopping, while one CU just blocked the technical master of another IP. This IP has been edit warring on this article for over 2 weeks.

How these actions are not violating WP:INVOLVED, and shows the failure to adhere to WP:BEFOREBLOCK? Forget about a block, I didn't even deserved a warning because after reading this edit, it is affirmed that it was over. Would somebody even warn after that? When the risk of present disruption has clearly ended, reopening it by blocking is inappropriate. Even my next 60 edits that came before the block speak for themselves. And when the admin is involved, he should not make such block because administrators must not block users with whom they are engaged in a content dispute; instead, they should report the problem to other administrators.

Page protection policies say that "Administrators should not protect or unprotect a page to further their own positions in content disputes." And the involved admin should not edit the article the protected article if there is an ongoing content dispute, there are some exceptions such as vandalism, BLP violation, none of these were an issue.

Apart from these 16 hours, I am not aware of any other actions of Bgwhite except one, where he has violated any of the above policies, it can be because I haven't checked his history of blocks yet. The one incident I know of, I consider that he was involved in content dispute with the major editor of that article(Phineas Gage), editor was EEng, Bgwhite blocked only because EEng had said "self-satisfied roving enforcer". I cannot find any warning by Bgwhite prior to the block myself, though I can be pointed to the diff where EEng was warned. John Vandenberg had considered that block to be outrageous. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 02:07, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

OccultZone I understand complaining about your block and explaining why this is unjustified by your point of view. I do not understand why you involve previous block cases. -- Magioladitis (talk) 08:10, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

I mentioned the block of EEng because IMO it is meaningful to mention any past incidents when we are talking about the new incidents, falling under similar categories. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 08:15, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

OccultZone, you sure know how to make enemies out of friends. You sure don't know when to stop. I did unblock you this past week, but you now have made me regret that decision. I sincerely apologize to Swarm for doing that. You asked me to help in the Rape in India mess. Ironically, I made reverts to your preferred version. The "major edits" I made was out of discussion that you participated in and agreed with. Funny how you claim I'm involved, but have done things that appear to be on your side. You need to read WP:INVOLVED, ... or whose prior involvements are minor or obvious edits which do not speak to bias, is not involved and is not prevented from acting in an administrative capacity in relation to that editor or topic area. I didn't have any bias against you, if anything, I had bias for you. Also, one doesn't need to warn on a 3RR block and one can still be blocked if the reverting has stopped.

Face the facts... You broke the rules. You reverted seven times on somebody's else's talk page in a two hour span. The same person you accused of being a SP. The same person you had reverted in the past. The SPI case you filed turned out to be false. Today, you accused yet another person of being a sockpuppet. You are already asking other people to join in the conversation and emailing people about me. Hmmm, I remember the emails you sent me last week on how you want to take Swarm to Arbcom, punish him and make him pay.

You have learned nothing. You keep doing the same patterns. You sure know how to burn a bridge. I'm done. I will no long leave a message here. I will not respond to any more of you help requests like I have done in the past. Please don't send me any harassing emails like you did Swarm. Bgwhite (talk) 09:06, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

Editing same article and making major edits, acting as a disagreeing editor on multiple occasions, such actions speaks for themselves and defines an editor to be heavily WP:INVOLVED. Those edits, that I have mentioned at the top considerably shows your signification involvement with the content and those edits are not minor or obvious, they are rather speaking of your point of view. In this sense you didn't had to protect this article, label any other version than your favorite version as vandalism, block anyone who has contributed into this article, tell others to leave this article, and any of the other roles where an administrator should be uninvolved.

I don't see any facts here at all, first you will have to have to provide a policy that would backup your misjudgment that "one can still be blocked if the reverting has stopped". You are actually admitting that there was no reverting being done neither there was any possibility that I was going to revert. Which rule I had broken and which seven times revert you are talking about? There is no rule mentioning that a block should be enforced when a problem has been already solved, and at least the problem that I had myself tried to figure out. Purpose and goals of this policy defines that "once a matter has become "cold" and the risk of present disruption has clearly ended, reopening it by blocking retrospectively is usually not seen as appropriate." When the blocks shouldn't be used? This block fails all of those 4 noted points.

If you cannot backup with the right policy for your argument, then your arguments holds no water. My SPI didn't turned out to be false, because this particular IP and its technical master are currently blocked. If we take a look at the behavior evidence and compare with the other accounts, we can really find clear similarities that are also passing the duck test. I have to write that again, because you have either ignored to read it above or you are repeating the same point. If we take a look at their behavior evidence we find no difference between them. Furthermore, it is affirmed that the sock puppetry has carried out by a single editor since 2010. Most of the evidence has been discovered after the SPI, through which we can see that the sock master has been edit warring and move warring by abusing same accounts on a same article and using sock puppets on other articles for evading 3rr, as well as other namespaces like voting in same ban discussions, deletion discussions, deletion review, accepting own article submissions, etc. That alone passes the WP:DUCK test. Check this sandbox and how many recently viewed it. Most of the bytes and diffs are newly discovered and the case is under investigation. You are talking about the things that you haven't even touched and you are providing a misleading context. Are you now saying that it was a bad decision to overturn a block that was again made without any prior warnings(no warnings since I joined en.wiki) or it constituted any violation? Looking at the rationales of other admins, it seems like none of my actions even required a warning and one was already far from blocking. And more obviously no one would want warn me of edit warring after reading this edit carefully.

I would also like you to backup your other malformed accusation, of "harassing emails", it can be confirmed any day through the mail system as well as by Swarm that none of my email involved any harassment. I had rather asked a simple question about a policy that I hadn't discussed with him before. You've been already told about that before when you had made this false accusation about something that you haven't seen or confirmed, and you are not getting it at all. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 10:43, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

OccultZone I think Bgwhite is right on the block. WP:3RR is absolute. I see not exceptions like as "the reverting has stopped". The unblocking admin, Diannaa assumed good faith and never wrote that you did not violate the rule or that you should not have been blocked. the reason that the rule is absolute is that usually the person who reverts thinks they are right. Sometimes they are, sometimes they are not. I ve been to a similar situation myself. -- Magioladitis (talk) 11:36, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

WP:3RR is absolute only when the edit warring is obvious. Here it wasn't and as per this edit, it has been already clarified. Diannaa has considered it as a "bad block". In no sense it was a blockable offense, there was no warning or any indication that I was going to make any revert per my own admission. I can be convinced otherwise if any of those requirements were fulfilled. That way it didn't even constituted a single warning, none of the Bgwhite's own block rationale describes it, instead he is asking me to stop contributing on an article where he has majorly contributed as well as stop addressing the obvious socks, without looking at the recent block or similarities that they share per WP:DUCK. Totally inappropriate blocks are quickly reversed, they are distorted because they weren't even needed at first place. Blocks have procedures and Bgwhite has not followed them per WP:BEFOREBLOCK, none of his reasons comply with the 4 reasons where block is required. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 11:59, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

Kuru blocked the IP for edit-warring. In fact the IP was right in removing noticed from their page. My point: You are edit-warring even if you were not aware of that -- Magioladitis (talk) 12:08, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

Issue was totally different. IP was wrong when he was continuously creating deletion entries of a non-existing AfD. Such edits are considered as vandalism since he had also refused to create an AfD per his statement on AN3, and Kuru had seen the AIV report. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 12:19, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

• If this block hadn't been overturned, it would be considered as a established block in greater extent and Bgwhite would be repeating the same episode even if he would be seeing small conflict and include any new reasons. At least per the note he left, Bgwhite would be making longer blocks on me, whenever he would see me addressing IP hopping or any forms of socking. Blocks would also include any mention of this concerning article anywhere on whole en.wiki because he had cleared it himself in his own note, "highly suggest you walk away". Next time he would just say "Had warned and blocked you before for the same." I am not the only editor who he disagreed with, that's why I am expressing the consequences. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 14:05, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

• You're within your rights to delete my comments, but just so we're absolutely clear, that message remains a documented administrative warning that I would advise you not to disregard. Just a friendly reminder. Best, Swarm 05:18, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

• @Swarm: Your statements included no evidence. Though its good that you agreed that the block was inappropriate. But you accuse that I am responsible if a sock is edit warring and making personal attacks on multiple editors, you regard vandalism as non-vandalism even when IP had himself refused to create AfD per his own statement, while continued to create malformed entry of a non-existing AfD. You also talk about edit warring on multiple pages without providing another namespaces where it was being done, "stop violating our policies" which policy? And then you ask me to address any concerns in appropriate fashion, though you have failed to provide even a single diff for any of these unfounded accusations that you have made. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 05:24, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Editor interaction

Hi, I noticed at ANI you commented about two editors (a sock) at the same pages. Did you figure that out manually or using some tool? The reason I ask is that I used to use this interaction tool, but lately it doesn't seem to work. Just sits and spins. Can you suggest an alternative tool that looks for editor interaction? Thanks NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 09:35, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

That tool works only for those accounts that were created a while ago. I check their edits manually. Just check their last 5000 contributions and take the advantage of "Ctrl+F". You also get the idea of edit summaries, similar namespaces, etc. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 09:37, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, if you run across an auto-compare that works well, please ping me. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 09:40, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

You know about this tool? It is an updated one. It works a little(), although not very revealing. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 09:51, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Review of recent blocks

OccultZone has asked me to look into his past couple of blocks. I consider myself uninvolved, I've not editted in India-Pakistan articles, and have not had significant interactions with any of the parties (though I did nominate Swarm to be an admin a few years ago).

I'm aware that India-Pakistan articles are under discretionary sanctions, and those sanctions do extend to the Rape in India article, which both blocks have been centred around. OccultZone is certainly aware of these sanctions, they were discussed with him at the end of January, where he was explicitly told that 1RR could be invoked with respect to India-Pakistan articles.

Looking at the recent blocks. The first was for "edit warring" - edit warring does not require 3 reverts in a 24 hour time period, but rather a pattern of edit warring. OccultZone appears to have only made one revert at the time, but there was certainly a pattern - in the preceding 2 months, OccultZone had made 13 reverts to the page, including 2 on 12th Feb, 3 on 5th March, 2 on 14th March and 2 on 21st March. That's 4 minor edit wars in 2 months. The arguments given by OccultZone are not clear cut - as Swarm points out, WP:BLPCRIME is not pressing when no personal details about BLPs are given.

Regarding the specific incident, on 22nd March, there was an edit war, involving multiple parties. No one party appeared to be the instigator and so I would have recommended protecting the page in those circumstances. That said, given the history of the individuals, blocking each was also a reasonable course of action (though 72 hours does appear excessive) and I am surprised that Bgwhite overturned it unilaterally. I'll be dropping him a note on that and on other things I've spotted.

With respect to the second incident - OccultZone made 7 reverts to an IPs talk page in a short period. I do understand the confusion there - I've seen it regularly that users do not understand the rules on talk pages. A block is often warranted when a user goes past the bright-line of 3RR, even if the edit warring has stopped, as prevention goes beyond the immediate prevention of short term edit-warring into the longer term threat of future edit-warring. However, I'll WP:AGF that OccultZone did not realise that the IP could legitimately blank his user talk page and so am willing to believe this will not happen again. As such, no block is necessary, though again the block was not inappropriate.

Having reviewed the situation though, and erring on the side of caution, I'm minded to implement a 1RR on any articles related to India-Pakistan, similar to the one Callanecc proposed. Comments are certainly welcome. Worm(talk) 10:30, 31 March 2015 (UTC)