Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Future Perfect at Sunrise (talk | contribs) at 15:49, 31 March 2015 (Reverted edits by 192.64.115.19 (talk) to last version by Kuru). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Welcome!

Hello, Sr 76, and welcome to Misplaced Pages! Thank you for your contributions, especially what you did for World Council of Arameans (Syriacs). I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

• Introduction to Misplaced Pages
• The five pillars of Misplaced Pages
• How to edit a page and How to develop articles
• How to create your first article
• Simplified Manual of Style

Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by typing four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Misplaced Pages:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{help me}} before the question. Again, welcome! Rafy talk 17:46, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

November 2014

Hello, I'm Kkj11210. I noticed that you recently removed some content from Chaldean people without explaining why. In the future, it would be helpful to others if you described your changes to Misplaced Pages with an accurate edit summary. If this was a mistake, don't worry; I restored the removed content. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks! KJ 22:31, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Hi, I made the change because to my surprise that page Chaldean People had no {{edit protected}} applied. As apposed to other pages such as Syriac People, Aramean People that all redirect to page Assyrian People.Sr 76 (talk) 23:19, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Are you trying to ask for edit protection on the redirect page? Or are you trying to delete it? KJ 01:38, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

I'm saying the edit protection needs to be removed. The forced redirection from the Syriac/Aramean/Chaldean people and the deletion of that content is extremely unethical. Sr 76 (talk) 02:26, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Sock puppetry

Hello. Are you aware of our policy on sock puppetry? Would you like to admit creating several accounts? If so, perhaps we can sort this out quickly. Otherwise I suspect you will find your account blocked shortly. Regards — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 20:02, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Blocked for sockpuppetry

This account has been blocked indefinitely from editing for a period of indefinite for sock puppetry per evidence presented at Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Sr 76. Note that multiple accounts are allowed, but using them for illegitimate reasons is not, and that any contributions made while evading blocks or bans may be reverted or deleted. If you believe that this block was in error, and you would like to be unblocked, you may appeal this block by adding the text {{unblock|Your reason here ~~~~}} below. However, you should read the guide to appealing blocks first. Mike V • Talk 02:46, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Previous unblock requests
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy). Sr 76 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log)) Request reason: Your reason here: firstly you have made the assumption that i have created multiple accounts because according to the "Sockpuppet investigations/Sr 76/Archive" identified 4 people from the same city, Sydney has population of approx 5 million people. So NO sockpuppetry, if these people found out about what was happening on Wikipeadia and took issue with it and reacted with the talk above that is surely up to them. The only "cross over" identified in this investigation was a users called 1history1 and rooster11, even though rooster11 made no contributions. Secondly, the comment "and pretended to hold a conversation with them?" all my comments were directed to Penguins53, i ignored everyne else. Decline reason: Your explanations are simply not credible. The probability that all 4 users come from the same city is negligible. Unless you come clean, there is very little chance of being unblocked. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 11:37, 27 November 2014 (UTC) If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked. This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy). Sr 76 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log)) Request reason: Your reason here : are you saying if these people find out about the issue, they are going to want to deal with it? So let me get this straight, you expect me not to mention this issue to people, and if i do i should insist that they DON'T make any comments otherwise I personally will be accused of creating false accounts? What 4 people do in there own time is some thing i need to deal with because they live in a major capital. A credible answer = a false confession? Decline reason: You're simply describing WP:MEAT, but at least you seem to slowly be edging towards honesty. This was noted during the sockpuppet investigation; perhaps you could point out that you realize the problem and will cease to disruptive recruit single purpose editors to attempt to circumvent consensus>? Kuru (talk) 13:42, 27 November 2014 (UTC) If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

Sr 76 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

Its always been honest. I cant identify these people online since they are all using pseudonyms, i can only speak to the 2 people that I had a conversation with (not "recruited" since they were not given instructions), that it appears as thought the from a WikiAdmin perspective like sockpuppetry. I don't know where the others came from.
Just so you know, Misplaced Pages policies makes it far too easy to create an anomaly in the way editors are allowed to contribute to the site. This "Assyrian People" redirection issue is a great example: In 2009 there was a issue of a "content fork" where the debate went on for years and then a "vote/consensus" taken with in the space of 5 days(doesn't seem reasonable). Now Wikipeadia represent all ethnic appellations Aramean, Syriac and Chaldean under the label Assyrian, while the Assyrians are the smallest group of all the other groups (the others take offence to the Assyrian identity). As a result Wikipeadia has ostracise the larger Syriac-Christians groups for the past 5 years. Because the name Assyrian is offensive to the Syriac/Arameans/Chaldeans and is historically inconssistent, Wikipeadia has lost cedibility as a valid resource with these people, SO PEOPLE HAVE SIMPLY LEFT WIKIPEDIA AS EDITORS. Now in 2014 in order to have the protected-redirection removed, we need "consensus" but the only editors left are politically motivated Assyrians that have Misplaced Pages already accommodating their political agenda. So why would they offer a consensus? As "Penguins53" demonstrated on the "Syriac People" talk page, they can simply run away from the discussion as soon as any evidence is presented (since wikipedia is doing what they want anyway). Any new editors that join to correct this will be labeled sockpuppets.

A great example: look at the contributions made by the user "Penguins53" he has made almost 1500 changes from 15 February 2013 to 22 November 2014 almost unquestioned. He has been able to vandalize Wikiedia because the only editors interested in the topic of Syriac-Christians of the middle east are now most Assyrians (the others are gone) for the reasons stated above. His changes all follow the common theme of removing the names Syriac/Aramean/Chaldean and replacing it with Assyrian and while others include:
- modifying references
- replacing the word "Christian" with the word "Assyrian" (since when does the word "Christian" lend itself exclusively to the word "Assyrian"?)
- changing the use of the word "Areamean" to past tense ("the Arameans are" changed to "the Arameans were"). In other words the Arameans once existed, but now they no longer exist.

Accept reason:

See discussion below — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:03, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

I believe this request has merit. I'll write my comments shortly and discuss with the blocking administrator. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:23, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, I haven't had time and I won't have until tomorrow. So if another administrator could review this, it's fine. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 23:03, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

That's fine, thankyou for your timeSr 76 (talk) 06:43, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay. I see that no one else has responded yet. I think we are making some progress here, but there are still some issues to explore. The following accounts were found to have similar editing habits and geographical location:

• Aramsuryoyo (talk · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)
• 1history1 (talk · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)
• Hddmwq (talk · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)
• Trueandfact (talk · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)
• Roosters11 (talk · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)

In your unblock request, you state that you know two of these editors in real-life. Which two editors are these? Without disclosing their identities, can you explain how you know them? How did you make them aware of the discussion on Talk:Syriac people? What about the other people in that list? How did they become aware of the request? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:01, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

No problem it's understandable. I simply don't know who is whom. I mentioned it to 2 friends over coffee, they must have done the same. The page Talk:Syriac people was mentioned because he didn't understand how i could debate people on Misplaced Pages.Sr 76 (talk) 16:24, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Although you claimed you did not "recruit" them to the discussion, do you appreciate that this is exactly the effect it had? How will you avoid falling foul of the policy on WP:SOCK policy in future (including the WP:MEAT section therein)? What would have been a better course of action to attract the attention of editors to the discussion on Talk:Syriac people? I'm thinking we could unblock (per WP:AGF). The other editors will remain blocked and can make their own requests if they wish. Although we have no way of verifying the information you have presented, the scenario would seem to match the technical evidence that the checkuser presented. Are the other admins (Mike V, Ponyo, Kuru) okay with this approach? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 16:39, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

@MSGJ: I'm slightly doubtful about the "I just mentioned it offhand and they all independently created accounts" response, however if you are willing to extend some rope then I certainly won't object as long as Sr 76 adheres strictly to a single account, avoids any canvassing, and thoroughly reviews our NPOV policy prior to editing should an unblock be granted. I'm worried by the (mis)use of "vandalize" in relation to another editor with an opposing view in the unblock request. I understand it's a volatile topic, however Sr 76 will need to keep their personal feelings in check if they want to avoid any potential edit-warring or cvility concerns (again, should they be unblocked).--Jezebel's Ponyo 19:07, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

I agree with all your points Ponyo (by the way, nice to meet you - I don't think we've interacted before). I myself was extremely doubtful, but at the end of the day it probably doesn't matter, if the user has learned the lesson. I conclude that this block is not preventing any disruption anymore, and will unblock shortly. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:02, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

I do realize that is what happened, although it wasn't my intention. I simply complained to a couple of friends. The outcome simply highlights how provocative this is for some people. Ok that sounds reasonable.Sr 76 (talk) 02:36, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Unblocking now ... please do take all points on board and be especially careful to remain calm in what is clearly an emotional topic area for you. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:02, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for your time, I will take every thing on board. It's not really emotional for me, I'm just trying to be fair.Sr 76 (talk) 20:46, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Propaganda platform Misplaced Pages

They want to keep Syriac people as a redirect to the Assyrian people article! https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2014_December_19 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Suryoyo124 (talk • contribs) 15:12, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

December 2014

This account was previously indeffed for sock puppetry, and unblocked in good faith after discussion and denials. I'm reinstating the indef block after obvious abusive IP socking (see for example the history of this page) during User:Future Perfect at Sunrise's block. You know how to request unblock, if you think anybody will fall for it a second time. Bishonen | talk 12:53, 31 December 2014 (UTC).

Sorry, I think I was deceived by the wheels within wheels there; Fut Perf has explained that I made a mistake. I've reset the block to two weeks. Bishonen | talk 13:32, 31 December 2014 (UTC).

Sr 76 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

What now? why was i blocked? I didn't make any edits to the Assyrian People page. Sr 76 (talk) 14:34, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Decline reason:

Given your extensive history and the past concerns about meatpuppetry, I'd say this edit, a clear violation of WP:CANVASS, justifies the block on its own. But you also have been ceaselessly turning Misplaced Pages into a battleground to argue not that reliable sources support your point of view, but that you're right (and that everybody who opposes you is motivated by "politics", of course entirely unlike you). We're here to improve the encyclopedia based on what reliable sources report, not to right great wrongs. Huon (talk) 15:33, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

Sr 76 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

So far as @Suryoyo124 is concerned he was involved in the discussion for about 2 months and then didn't vote. Clearly he missed the edit by Mr.Stradivarius in the large wall of a discussion, which is why i reminded him .
"not that reliable sources support my view"???
This is the world fore-most expert in the field of Syriac Studies, Oxford University Profession of Syriac Studies Dr Sebastian Brock Phd. page 68 second paragraph
https://books.google.com.au/books?id=Xa1zdxyfxLYC&printsec=frontcover&dq=introduction+to+syriac+studies&hl=en&sa=X&ei=t7akVLjiCqS7mAXbxoDYDA&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22East%20Syriac%22&f=false
Last paragraph of page 67 "with the CONJECTURE of some nineteenth century archaeologists and missionaries that the modern christian population of northern Iraq are the descendants of the ancient Assyrians. This was TAKEN UP especially among people of the Church of the East".
Assyrian identity was created by the British the late part of the 19th century.
Also, all the further reading titles listed on the Assyrian People page (with 2 exceptions, the 2 being highly dubious anyway) concur with exactly what i have been writing. I have all these titles at home, please direct me to where they don't support my views.

Sr 76 (talk) 03:26, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Decline reason:

In all seriousness, you shouldn't have made that edit. My advice is to accept that, and agree not to make similar edits in future. PhilKnight (talk) 08:57, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

Sorry the link was wrong, use this one:
https://books.google.com.au/books?id=Xa1zdxyfxLYC&printsec=frontcover&dq=introduction+to+syriac+studies&hl=en&sa=X&ei=t7akVLjiCqS7mAXbxoDYDA&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAA#v=snippet&q=CONJECTURE&f=false
And the second paragraph on page 68
You have this all wrong. Sr 76 (talk) 03:32, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

You are missing the point. Read again the principles outlined at Talk:Assyrian people#Warning: New rules for this page, and then consider which of those rules you violated. Fut.Perf. ☼ 09:31, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

I did not make any edits to the Assyrian People page.

The only edit i made after the 29th of December was to the Syriac People Talk Page to answer AnyHaylos about "Saggs taken out of context".
which complies with what you wrote anyway:

"The only thing everybody is expected to use the talkpage for is to discuss how this group and its history are described in high-quality, neutral reliable sources, and how the article should be changed so that it reflects those sources." https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Assyrian_people#Saggs_taken_out_of_context

Sr 76 (talk) 11:04, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Don't hide behind formalities. It should have been clear to you that what is disruptive on the Assyrians talkpage is equally disruptive on the Syriacs talkpage, which is about the same topic, so why argue about what page you were on? As for the content of your edit, no, you were not talking about how to correctly reflect the literature; you were arguing about what you personally think is the WP:TRUTH about the matter, and why what somebody else thought was the truth was wrong. If you genuinely can't understand the difference between doing that and doing what you ought to be doing on a Misplaced Pages talkpage, it will be better to keep you blocked until such time as you have understood it. Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:25, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

@PhilKnight:@Fut.Perf.:Im not trying to be a wise-guy. I do want to follow policies, conduct codes and rules. I was the one that warned about that kind of discussion about this topic on the Wiki Page in the first place, and yet it is me that is accused of "creating a disturbance" and "turning Misplaced Pages into a battle field".

The truth is now that I have been block for last edit I am struggling to understand what an appropriate edit is. Reading the following only made it worse......

https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Verifiability,_not_truth#.22If_it.27s_written_in_a_book.2C_it_must_be_true.21.22

The Saggs reference that I was writing about is a great example of "cherry picking", so I should not have identified it?

There has been plenty of talk by admin about the problems Assyrian People page, and how it needs to be cleaned up. The page is littered with of these references that have been cherry picked and if you block the people that point that out you will not be able to clean up the page.

Sr 76 (talk) 06:23, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

I think i will just wait out the 2 weeks until the block expires and then come back to see if i can assist in cleaning up the page.Sr 76 (talk) 06:26, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

@PhilKnight:@Fut.Perf.:
On a different and more important note when this issue is going to be dealt with? Assyrians have clearly colluded consistently from October 2006 to December 2010, please see the link provided. The dates are no coincidence either, with the voting on Misplaced Pages in November 2008 to remove the "Syriac People" page.
http://www.assyrianvoice.net/forum/index.php?topic=16628.95;wap2
http://www.assyrianvoice.net/forum/index.php?topic=16628.100;wap2
Voting on Wiki - https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Aramean-Syriac_people
This has been done with the clear intention of violating the Canvassing rules, clearly vote-stacking and Stealth Canvassing. This is the current state of Wikipeadia (Syriac People page redirecting to Assyrian People page), and this is why the content of the Assyrian People page is the way that it is
Sr 76 (talk) 06:33, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

@PhilKnight:@Fut.Perf.:
Also there is an issue with Fairness:
When Suryoyo124 used the term "Assyrian Facists" (referring to SOME Assyrian editors) - he was blocked for 2 weeks
When AynHaylo wrote "You Oromoye nationalists are ALL brainwashed" (referring to ALL Arameans around the world, making it a racist slur) - nothing was done about it
I am more than happy to follow the rules, but the rules have to be clear and applied fairly to everyoneSr 76 (talk) 06:45, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

It's getting to the stage where I'm considering revoking talk page access for the remainder of your block. Talk page access is given so that you can make an unblock request, not so you can continually ping the blocking and reviewing admin to persuade them to change their minds. PhilKnight (talk) 10:39, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

License tagging for File:Michael The Syrian quoting Joseaphus Page 748.jpg

Thanks for uploading File:Michael The Syrian quoting Joseaphus Page 748.jpg. You don't seem to have indicated the license status of the image. Misplaced Pages uses a set of image copyright tags to indicate this information.

To add a tag to the image, select the appropriate tag from this list, click on this link, then click "Edit this page" and add the tag to the image's description. If there doesn't seem to be a suitable tag, the image is probably not appropriate for use on Misplaced Pages. For help in choosing the correct tag, or for any other questions, leave a message on Misplaced Pages:Media copyright questions. Thank you for your cooperation. --ImageTaggingBot (talk) 20:06, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

Comment

"THIS IS AMAZING. It was you and your fellow Assyrians that were quoting Brock, saying he wrote that the term Aramean really meant Aramean speaker. As soon as I suggested that you were misquoting Brock (i didn't even bother to present the quote), you turn on Brock and start questioning his credentials......?????....seriously"

There is no reason for you to lie like that. You're just being childish. Please provide a diff where I quoted Brock. My "fellow Assyrians" are not me. Shmayo (talk) 22:38, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

You only started criticizing Brock when I told you he was misquoted.Sr 76 (talk) 03:44, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

Why?

@Fut.Perf.: why did you block me? i was the only one making legitimate edits to the page, the others were just undoing my edits.

Sr 76 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

why was I blocked? I was the only one making legitimate edits to the page, the others were just undoing my edits.

Decline reason:

This does not appear to be an accurate assessment of your actions over the last few days. I can see clear reverts at 15:24 3-29, 17:06 3-28, 10:27 3-28, 04:20 3-27, and 17:55 3-26. In fact, it's hard to spot a series of edits that does not contain a revert. It's great that you were writing up a discussion, but it may have been a sounder strategy to have done that before edit warring. Kuru (talk) 16:41, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

You were clearly edit-warring, just like they were, and at least some parts of your edits (such as replacing the past tense with the present tense in the defining sentence of Arameans) were certainly contentious and would have required legitimate discussion and consensus first. You have also been personally attacking other editors.

By the way, please learn to sign your posts. Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:15, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

I had written-up the discussion on the talk page, but was unable to submit it because I was blocked.....Personally attacking?Sr 76 (talk) 16:31, 29 March 2015 (UTC)