This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Courcelles (talk | contribs) at 17:10, 1 April 2015 (→Article titles and capitalisation: Arbitrator views and discussion: cmt). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Clarification request: Article titles and capitalisation

Initiated by RGloucester at 15:44, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

Case or decision affected

Article titles and capitalisation arbitration case (t) (ev / t) (w / t) (pd / t)

List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request:

• RGloucester (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) (initiator)
• Callanecc (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request

• https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Callanecc&diff=653902342&oldid=653898258

Statement by RGloucester

This matter came up at WP:AE. In responding to an AE request that I filed, Callanecc suggested that the discretionary sanctions for Manual of Style and article titles-related matters only applied directly to project space MoS and AT pages, rather than to edits to articles. He said, "And I agree that the short term, limited IBAN I quickly thought of won't solve the underlying problem; but, from my reading of the discretionary sanctions they can't be used to take the action (somewhat like Blueboar suggested) needed". This seems a bit absurd, if it is the case. These sanctions have not been used since 2012, insofar as I can see. Despite endless disputes in this area of conflict, most users are not even aware of their existence according to the standard AC/DS awareness procedure. Is the reason that they have not been used because they only apply absolutely directly to MoS and AT pages? Do these sanctions apply to edits to the article space? I would suggest from my own reading that they do. If they do not, one might as well consider revoking the sanctions, as they are not serving any purpose, and shan't do if that's what the scope was intended to be.

• @Guerillero: If this is indeed the case, would you or other arbitrators consider a motion to amend the DS so as to include all discussions/actions in the area of conflict (MoS and AT)? Without such a motion, the DS are toothless, useless, and should be revoked. It strikes me that remedy 1.2 applies directly to the type of MoS/AT disputes that have been ongoing. It is exactly the type of remedy needed in this area, even if these discussions do not take place on AT/MoS pages. RGloucester — ☎ 19:52, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
• Has it ended the "edit wars", or has it simply moved to them to other pages? None of these disputes have stopped. They merely continue across hundreds of scattered pages. RGloucester — ☎ 21:00, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Callanecc

Statement by George Ho

The requestor himself, RGloucester, has been involved in article title disputes, especially with me. I would like to give you evidence, but the request is about clarification or amendment. Recently, he has been reported at WP:ANI for his actions and behavior, such as gaming the aftermath of requested moves at Talk:2 May 2014 Odessa clashes. Well, I too am involved in such disputes without him. I have been requesting moves for a while, but I have dealt with warriors of article titles. Who is more disruptive: me for making many requests or RGloucester for his actions? If neither a clarification nor an amendment is enough, perhaps we should have a case involving the requestor himself and/or another case involving titles and capitalisation. I do want to request a case on him, but I haven't seen him going too far yet lately. — Preceding unsigned comment added by George Ho (talk • contribs) 05:36, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

Comment by Newyorkbrad

I think some editors would benefit from reading and thinking about the comment I made here. Newyorkbrad (talk) 00:52, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by {other-editor}

Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should address why or why not the Committee should accept the case request or provide additional information.

Article titles and capitalisation: Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

• Recuse, obviously. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 02:52, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
• Recuse as a clerk, having stated an opinion as an editor. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:26, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

Article titles and capitalisation: Arbitrator views and discussion

• I find Callan's interpretation to be a reasonable one based on a direct reading of the scope (all pages related to the English Misplaced Pages Manual of Style and article titles policy, broadly construed) and a reading of the scope in context of the findings of fact. I am unsure if move discussions that relate to the article titles policy are covered by DS since the scope does not say all pages and discussions related to..., like Panderson's topic ban. What seems clear to me is that articles and the movement of articles are not placed under DS by this remedy. --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 19:43, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Maybe for discussions, no for page moves. If I remember correctly from when I was a clerk, the case came out of a number of disputes that raged on WP:MOS and WT:MOS in 2010-2012. The DS has ended the endless edit wars there and continues to keep the peace. To call it useless ignores this fact. Including page moves would be a massive expansion of the DS based on a single AE thread; I even have moved pages based on the MoS and haven't ended up in controversy for it. --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 20:15, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
• The original case had a scope of the content of internal Misplaced Pages pages. The remedies were not written so as to, for instance, restrict all use of dashes and other MOS items: that would be difficult to enforce and could lead to ludicrous enforcement scenarios. I would therefore uphold the interpretation being disputed in this clarification request. AGK 23:22, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
• I agree with the above. The reading of the scope of sanctions is in line with the scope of the case and their wording. An expansion of them to cover all article space would be very broad indeed. Seraphimblade 07:47, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
• I think the intent of the sanctions, and their written scope, is limited to project space, and does not extend to specific, individual debates about what an article title should be. And the latter would be very, very broad indeed. Courcelles (talk) 17:10, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

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