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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Abecedare (talk | contribs) at 16:33, 12 April 2015 (→Disambiguation link notification for April 12: thanks DPL bot; would like your messages even better w/o the initial throat-clearing; thought our relationship was past that by now :-)). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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You've got mail!

(talk page watcher) - NQ (talk) 22:07, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

@NQ: Thank you! Abecedare (talk) 22:16, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Speedy deletion and Devnagri

The two files about whose speedy deletion you posted on my talk page, have been clicked personally by me. I would like to know which copyright tag will be suitable for them as I do not need them to be deleted. Point 2- Thanks for your explanation. I agree there has Ģa discussion. But the participants were not aware of the way things work here in India. Misplaced Pages is responsible to provide knowledge to readers worldwide about a country. And wikipedians can not know a country better than its government. If none of the Identity crds issued in India have a problem with Bharat Ganrajya written in Hindi, the local minority dialects wouldn't have the problem here on Misplaced Pages too. Hence, wikipedians need to stop worrying """on their behalf""". Based on solely this solid assertion, I want to re-open the discussion. Thanks Mousanonyy (talk) 13:54, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

@Mousanonyy:

About copyright: Photographing/scanning a book cover or book page does not give one copyright ownership over the underlying work, or the right to release that in public domain. As an analogy, I cannot use my camera to film a Bollywood movie playing in the theater or on my TV and then legally release it in public domain as my own work. See derivative work and this FAQ at wikimedia commons for more details. (Note: I am not going into issues of fair use here, since per wikipedia policy fair-use images cannot be used on talk-pages in any case).

About devanagari: Union GoI ≠ India, and Misplaced Pages's India article is not a govt. website (or akin to a govt. issued ID). Of course, we seriously consider the govt. POV, and therefore, as I had pointed at the talkpage, India having 22 scheduled languages and having chosen not to have a national language are also important elements in the debate. In any case, if you wish you can continue the discussion at Talk:India and see if you gain consensus for your proposal. My only request is that you not make the proposed change to the article, until you have done so. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 17:22, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Thank you again. The passport picture had no problem in regards to the concern you raised above. Why delete that? Also, the 22 sheduled languages have also been decided by earlier governments. ( By the way, India did not choose a National language in order to not piss off the 23% muslims that live here. But, that can not be proved.) However, I since Bharat Ganrajya is a Hindi word, why is it even mentioned it then? Why not simply Republic of India? BECAUSE- Hindi is important is many way - Official Language, used in govt IDs and documents. So if ONE HAS TO WRITE BHARAT GANRAJYA, why not write it in its indigenous script too! Don't write it then. Bharat Ganrajya has different names in the 800 languages spoken in India. Why write Bharat Ganrajya- the Hindi version- only? I hope you try to understand. Cheers to you too! :) Mousanonyy (talk) 18:49, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

I recall there was tentative agreement on removing Bharat Ganrajya from the lede sentence and leaving in only India, Bharat, and Republic of India. Someone needs to actually craft a lede sentence along those lines and then establish consensus for the change. I would be in favour of such a proposal. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 19:03, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. I am a student ; help me do it. I am putting the jest of my thoughts here now-

1. If you write India, Bharat , and Republic of Indi, it is still injustice to other 800 languages because not all of them call India as Bharat.

2. If you have to write the Hindi word Bharat, write it in Hindi; or just don't write it. 14.139.229.43 (talk) 20:45, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

@Mousanonyy: Bharat, just like India, is a proper noun and thus not restricted to Hindi or any other language. And while it is arguably true that in Hindi (unlike English) the name Bharat is used more often than the name India, that is also the case for several other Indian languages. And fwiw, both India and Bharat trace their etymological roots to Sanskrit. So I don't see a reason for a "write Bharat in Hindi; or just don't write it" restriction; an injunction that not even the Indian Constitution obeys.

As an aside: There was a proposal in the Constituent Assembly debates to make the country's name language-specific ("Bharat or, in the English language, India, shall be a Union of States") but it was rejected. Abecedare (talk) 16:31, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Is it true or my fault or the side effects of intricacy of wiki that it appears to be biased. According to FAQ, "wiki wouldn't use Bangluru but Banglore because more often Banglore is used in media and paperworks, awesome reason. becuase media is made up of things like wiki itself. Wiki wouldn't write in Hindi on India's page! This time paperworks don't matter. One question- can a celebrity, on her/his wish, make it happen that no article be written about them on wikipedia? Thanks. 14.139.229.43 (talk) 10:44, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

To address your last question: Celebrities cannot have their article deleted on wikipedia. However for non-public figures, many editors will give some consideration to the subject's wishes when deciding whether an article should be deleted. Abecedare (talk) 12:58, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

When someone doesn't want to have her/his article/information on wiki, why won't wikipedia let that happen? And I would also like it if the other question isn't left unanswered. I know you are being patient. But all have their own approach and ways. Thanks 14.139.229.43 (talk) 14:07, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

Many wikipedia articles are biased or otherwise flawed for varying reasons (editor ineptitude, editor bias, systemtic bias, source errors, source bias etc.). But taking that general observation to imply that the particular editorial-choices that you are referring to are evidence of bias would be a syllogistic fallacy.

On the other question: letting subjects determine what we do and don't cover on wikipedia, or in any particular article, goes fundamentally against our role as an encyclopedia (as I mentioned before, there are some exceptions at the very margins). If you want to learn more about the issues involved (even beyond wikipedia), read up on the Right to be forgotten debate that has been in news lately. Abecedare (talk) 21:23, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

Thank you. That was helpful again. Since I can not manage to devote much time to editing or requesting changes on wiki, and I have tried teahouse, talk pages etc. Is there an ultimate contact where I can address what I feel. Going by these wrong list of rules makes biasing easier. Thanks in anticipation. 14.139.229.43 (talk) 11:35, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

Not sure what you mean by "ultimate contact where I can address what I feel".

• If it is a discrete matter pertaining to a single article, the article talkpage is usually the best place to discuss the issue (or, one can take it up to one of the content discussion noticeboards).
• If it is a concrete matter concerning multiple India-related articles India noticeboard is a good venue
• If you want to voice your general thoughts on how wikipedia policies are/are not working, you can write an essay in your userspace.

My advice to you though would be not to get stuck on issues relating to one page (especially a featured-page like India, which is watched by numerous editors and where the editing environment is necessarily finicky). Since you appear to be editing from a G. B. Pant University of Agriculture and Technology IP address, try your hand at improving the page for Pantnagar. You are likely to be well-situated to lay your hands on some good published sources on the city, or at least can take some photographs of major landmarks around town and upload them on wikipedia. Hope that helps. Abecedare (talk) 18:42, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

Thank you. GB Pant University is in India itself! So, I am also one of the best people to improve the page India :) I will try to voice my opinion using the options you told me whenever I am able to. Cheers!!!! 14.139.229.43 (talk) 10:43, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

Could you please close the RfC on Jyoti Singh?

Seems it's time.

Thanks, LarryLogicalLarry (talk) 20:45, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

RFC's are typically closed by uninvolved editors after about 30 days of comments, or once no new comments are forthcoming. The exception to this are cases where the consensus view is unarguably clear, which is not the case in this instance. I suggest that we wait a few days, and then post a request for closure at WP:AN. In the meantime our efforts may be better spent improving the 2012 Delhi gang rape and India's Daughter articles themselves (or, any other pages on wikipedia that may interest you and me). Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 20:54, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Mail

{YGM}Rajendrarajun (talk) 11:19, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

@Rajendrarajun: Thanks for the email and for finding an additional source for the deleted article Puttana Venkatramana Raju. However, I don't think that the biographical facts given in Eminent Indians who was who, 1900-1980 are sufficient to meet wikipedia's notability standards. You can try a WP:DRV or creating a fresh draft at WP:AFC, but I doubt it will survive deletion. Instead I would suggest that you create a personal website to memorialize Mr. P.V. Raju, where you will be able to exercise complete editorial control. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 16:40, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

History of Delhi

Hi, I noticed that you just undid my changes to the History of Delhi page. May I ask why?

Thanks, Bhavika1990 (talk) 07:09, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

Hey, I just saw your message, am now editing and paraphrasing my edit. Thanks!

@Bhavika1990: Great! Make sure to use your own language, and cite the sources you are using. Also note that we typically avoid using other encyclopedias as a source, so you should minimize the content directly sourced to Encyclopedia Britannica's article on Delhi (which has also been republished in the book The Geography of India: Sacred and Historic Places). Let me know if you have any questions. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 07:34, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for your help and advice! - Bhavika1990 (talk) 08:31, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

Accessibility

Just a tip that someone - probably RexxS - gave me some time ago. Don't use semi-colons for bolding, as done here. Use our standard bolding methods instead because the semi-colon idea causes problems for, IIRC, people with screen-readers.

We seem to at least try to do a lot for people who use screen-readers but, as is almost always the case with the world, those who suffer from eyesight problems get more sympathy than those who suffer from hearing problems. Misplaced Pages does sod all to help the latter and it is becoming increasingly frustrating as people are deploying YouTube etc as sources more and more frequently. We really should be insisting that if a video is used then a quotation must be supplied unless the thing is itself captioned. I've had a lot of success in persuading the BBC News website that they need to subtitle their vids but somehow I doubt I'll make much impact here :( - Sitush (talk) 09:52, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip! I was trying to follow H:DL formatting (from memory), but did mess up.

About audio-visual sources: knew of the problem but didn't think of the easy solution you suggest of transcribing the relevant text. Use such sources very rarely, but will try to do my part of following that practice and proselytizing it. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 15:29, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Hm, I didn't know of H:DL. Another backwater of WP space to read! - Sitush (talk) 18:56, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

I too must have read in my "early days", and therefore misremembered the exact formatting. Had to search for the "H:DL" wikilink in order to confirm that I hadn't dreamt it all up. :-) Abecedare (talk) 18:59, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Fringe theories

Abecedare,

Thanks for the guidance on the Urine Therapy. My goal is not to be disruptive. However, I'm unclear as to why fringe theories (or a fringe theoretical basis) can't be published. If we look at Acupuncture or Reiki, which Misplaced Pages classifies as fringe and pseudoscience, the articles still present the fringe "basis and effectiveness." Other pseudoscientific pages do the same: Magnetic therapy uses a "Purported mechanisms of action" section. Leaky gut syndrome uses a "Conceptual basis and background" section. Chiropractic has a "conceptual basis" section. Homeopathy has a "plausibility" section. They are all described in a pseudoscientific light. These explanations on the mechanisms does not discount the fact that all of these are still pseudoscience. I don't see a reason why Eldor's paper can't be stated as an unproven/purported mechanism for urine therapy. For instance, I would imagine something like, "unreliable sources claim that autourine therapy may be a treatment for cancer due to the antigens present in urine provoking an immune response in the dendritic cells." That would be a factual statement in that people like Eldor have made those unreliable claims. What are your thoughts on that? Most pseudoscientific Misplaced Pages pages are taking this approach. Those pseudoscience editors aren't censoring the conceptual/theoretical basis by mandating that the basis come from exceptional sources. So, I don't see why the urine therapy page can't shed light on its proposed pseudoscientific mechanism as well. If anything, it seems like urine therapy is one of the few pseudoscience pages that isn't proposing a mechanism. Thanks in advance. JamesPem (talk) 20:16, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

@JamesPem: To avoid duplication and to let other interested editors to weigh in, lets continue the conversation at Talk:Urine therapy. Abecedare (talk) 04:26, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

Grand Ashura Procession In Kashmir vandalism accuse

You may be blocked from editing without further warning the next time you disrupt Misplaced Pages. This is your only warning; if you remove or blank page contents or templates from Misplaced Pages again, you may be blocked from editing without further notice.

Your recent edits and huge changes without consensus on Grand Ashura Procession In Kashmir were distressing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mifciw (talk • contribs) 04:36, April 12, 2015

@Mifciw: Please see my explanation for the rewrite on the article talkpage. I'd strongly urge you not to engage in an edit-war since it will only result in you getting blocked. Use the talkpage instead to discuss any issues you ave with the current version, or to bring forth more sources. Abecedare (talk) 03:50, 12 April 2015 (UTC)