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May 20

Category:Morgenbladet

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:11, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
Nominator's rationale: Delete. Unnecessary tier holding only a sub-cat, which is already in the correct parent Category:Newspaper_people_by_newspaper_in_Norway. – Fayenatic London 23:15, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Gamergate controversy

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 12:00, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
Nominator's rationale: Delete. Not enough articles to justify a category; also, a nondefining category for most of the articles likely to be tagged (Zoe Quinn, Anita Sarkeesian, Tropes vs. Women in Video Games). Trivialist (talk) 22:11, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Delete - not enough articles to justify the category; this feels like bloat for bloat's sake. --Jorm (talk) 01:01, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Delete per WP:SMALLCAT. Only a few articles, not likely to grow, and all of them would be linked to from the Gamergate controversy article anyway. —Strongjam (talk) 01:26, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Delete. Beyond SMALLCAT (which I find to be another convincing reason for deletion), treating this as defining for the victims of this campaign (the main other likely members of the category than the controversy article itself) is a non-neutral statement that these people are or should be seen primarily in relation to their victimhood rather than through their actual accomplishments. It buys into the "professional victim" narrative that the gamergate supporters would like to establish. —David Eppstein (talk) 20:08, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Delete. Just bloat. What's next, a template? Neutrality 01:07, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

2nd-millennium BC disestablishments

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge country categories to disestablishments by century categories, and to disestablishments by continent and millennium. This close includes upmerging the newly-created sub-cats Category:2nd-millennium BC disestablishments in Assyria and Category:2nd-millennium BC disestablishments in Egypt. – Fayenatic London 07:02, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

See: Category:2nd-millennium BC disestablishments

Nominator's rationale: Merge and delete per WP:SMALLCAT, only one article per category. After the merge there will be one millennium category with just a handful of articles. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:28, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
  • That doesn't seem to make sense. I am very willing to believe that you'll be able to find some more articles to populate this tree, but I really can't imagine you will find enough to decently fill 50 categories (5 continents x 10 centuries) while there are currently less than 10 articles. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:06, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

People of X descent

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Keep (non-admin closure). Strong majority of participants want some or all of the categories kept. No prejudice against nominator re-nominating in a discussion that is much smaller in scope and/or focuses on categories with three or less articles in them. pbp 17:01, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
  • Propose deleting the following categories:
Nominator's rationale: Assuming people have descent from such small, specific regions, especially those which are historical, is complete and utter overkill. Non-defining characteristic to boot. Stick to country (e.g. Category:American people of Italian descent etc.), nothing more is needed. Also noting a lot of these entries appear to be wholly unreferenced/OR. GiantSnowman 19:01, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Keep All - To my knowledge, Corsica is French, not Italian - an upmerge would be a geographical mistake. Moreover, the Sicilian and Italian immigration waves have a different history. Third point: Arbëresh people are not Italian, nor Sicilian. Besides, why not delete "People of Kurdish descent" - should we consider Kurdistan also as a small, specific region ? Stefanomione (talk) 07:55, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
@Stefanomione: - then simply upmerge Corsican to Category:People of French descent; but Arbëresh is an Italian ethnic group. Your comments re:Kurdistan are contrary to WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, and your comments re:Sicilian v Italian immigration histories shouldn't impact on categories. But what about all the other categories you have ignored? Do you not agree they should be deleted? GiantSnowman 12:27, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
I think they should be kept - Should we delete / upmerge then Category:People of Scottish descent and Category:People of Welsh descent just because we consider Scotland and Wales "small, specific regions" ? Stefanomione (talk) 16:19, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
But they are actual countries, not "small, specific regions". GiantSnowman 17:36, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
Scotland and Wales are not seen as countries but rather constitutive nations outside of the UK (cf. Countries of the United Kingdom) and by the way Corsica is a Territorial collectivity. --Kiwi (talk) 12:20, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Keep All - successions and unifications of various city-states, regional-states, and nation-states, come and go... but diaspora, ethnicities and cultural identity are forever. --76.175.67.121 (talk) 20:11, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Keep All - Regional cultures in Italy are distinctive, so these are valid categories for people whose families came from those regions. If that information is lacking in particular articles, then those articles can of course be removed from the categories. Cgingold (talk) 05:38, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment. The question really is to what extent regional descent is of any influence on the course of life of the persons involved (hence on the biographies in Misplaced Pages). From what I saw, the region in which the parents were born (it was mostly parents), was a completely trivial fact to the person that the article was about, not a defining characteristic. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:33, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Keep All - Regional and ethnic identities precede the 19th century borders of the unified countries. Many of them originate from former independent states that got annexed. Dimadick (talk) 23:17, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Keep All - In the case of Italian diaspora, many people emigrated at the end of the 19th century, just 20 years after unification. Many brought their customs, language, traditions, gastronomic culture with them to the Americas, Australia or other regions in Europe. I also wanted to inform @GiantSnowman: that there is no need of reverting all my edits before knowing the outcome of this discussion. For the Corsican issue it's even more complex because many Corsicans descend from Ligurians and Tuscans, so upmerging the Category:People of Corsican descent to Category:People of French descent is reductive and Corsica only became French in 1769. Ultimately I think that the actual geo-political boundaries and national identity shouldn't interfere and globalize or homogenize with specific cultural backgrounds. Misplaced Pages has no political agenda. There is also a contradicting fact about Brittany/Bretons which is/are French since the 16th century but that is not thankfully mentioned here with on the other hand Sicily/Sicilians who is/are Italy/Italians since the 19th century for example and are not mentioned here by GiantSnowman. --Kiwi (talk) 12:20, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
  • @GiantSnowman: - Comparing the African origin of human beings with someone's regional origin from 200 years old is a little lame... and many genetic mutations happened since (or specific traits or even disorders cf. Beta thalassemia in southern Italy or other genetic disorders like Gaucher's disease for Ashkenazis), your comparison is reductio ad absurdum. BTW you also reverted sourced material, maybe you were in a hurry? I think you should use more time to think and read, Misplaced Pages is not an essay due for next week. --Kiwi (talk) 16:54, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Keep some -- I had to look up what Arbëreshë descent was. It is an ethnic Albanian minority, who entered Italy as refugees 400-500 years ago. I hear that the language of regio Calabria is incomprehensible to some other Italians. I suspect that some of the Sicilian descent is related to the Mafia, which is certainly significant. Italy was only united about 150 years ago, so that multiple ethnicities within Italy should be acceptable. The complaint here is of small categories. Alternative suggestion - upmerge all small ethnic categories by ethnic origin, so that we have one category Category:People of Arbëreshë descent, which currently exists as a parent to "American people of Arbëreshë descent" and the rest. It will also be necessary to ensure that an "American people" category is retained too. Peterkingiron (talk) 14:13, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Keep all for now some specific categories may be overkill, but I can testify that the Sicilian one is not. The Arbëresh are not a regional group, they are an ethnic group in Italy who came from Albania hundreds of years ago.John Pack Lambert (talk) 04:49, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment Any placings of people in these categories without any mention in the articles should be removed.John Pack Lambert (talk) 04:50, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment. For the Italian regions I can see both sides of the argument and have no opinion either way, but I do think Corsica should be kept separate, as it is sui generis: politically French, but ethnically distinct (and closer to Italy than to France). --Andreas Philopater (talk) 14:04, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Delete these and all other descent categories. The ethnicity/nationality of a persons great^n-grandparents is (generally) a WP:NON-DEFINING characteristic of the person. See also WP:DNWAUC. DexDor 05:56, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
    • Yet in the case of Mia Love the fact that her parents fled the dictatorship in Haiti only shortly before she was born and that her older siblings were still in Haiti when she was born is very important to her life history. Somehow I do not think one could argue that Desi Arnaz, Jr is not at all definable by the fact that his father was born in Cuba. So in some cases descent is defining. I think the problem is we have allowed it to be applied with no eivdnece of definingess, not that we have the categories. The link has to be more than a DNA sample study.John Pack Lambert (talk) 05:58, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
Re Mia Love: It may well be the case that her parents fled the dictatorship in Haiti only shortly before she was born and that her older siblings were still in Haiti when she was born is very important to her life history, but that she's a woman, married, parent etc may be even more important to her life history. We could have a category for all those characteristics (e.g. "People born in a different country to their older siblings"), but that would result in an article having a huge number of categories (several times as long as the article text) (see also WP:DNWAUC). The simplest way to avoid going down that route (recognizing that we're organizing an encylopedia, not creating a database of biographical details - cf WikiData) is to categorize only by the thing(s) that make the person notable (plus yob and yod which are a special case). Mia Love is notable because she's a politician, not because she's of Haitian descent. Misplaced Pages categorization is intended to group together articles about similar topics - American politicians is such a group (and fits below the category for politics of the U.S.). Whereas, Category:American people of Haitian descent groups people who are in the encyclopedia for very different reasons and puts them under Category:Haiti even if the only connection they have with that country is that a great-grandparent was born there. DexDor 18:42, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Wikipedians in Copenhagen

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Wikipedians in Denmark. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:15, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
Nominator's rationale: Only user in category hasn't been active for 2 years. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 16:59, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Cocaine sentencing

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: dual merge. – Fayenatic London 11:22, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
Nominator's rationale: Rename. Somewhat jarring current name, not sure whether it's ok in the legal context. The category content shows it's intended for cocaine-related cases and cocaine in law. Brandmeister 11:16, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:1st-millennium BC establishments in Asia Minor

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. MER-C 12:01, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
Nominator's rationale: Suggest deletion and upmerge the corresponding Establishments in Asia categories. While it could be renamed (the main category isn't Asia Minor but Category:Anatolia which is for the geographic peninsula), I think it makes more sense to have it organized by the continent since there are no other regions at Category:Establishments by country or underneath the continents at Category:Establishments. Ricky81682 (talk) 08:39, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Support per WP:SMALLCAT. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:58, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Support -- though I do wonder whether we need to split Asia into a series of subcontinents. The problem is agreeing theri extent. Possibly South East Asia with the Caucasus as northern boundary, India (subcontinent, including Sri Lanka), Southeast Asia, East Asia (to include China), Central Asia (former Soviet republics, other than Russia), and North Asia (Siberia). Peterkingiron (talk) 14:21, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.