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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by YellowMonkey (talk | contribs) at 06:12, 9 August 2006 (→Re: {{user|The Metatron}}: indian rfas). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Recall (see also Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Crzrussian)

Crzrussian recall tally

Crzrussian has asked me (Lar (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)) to clerk more formally. He has decided that if he gets 6 valid requests to be recalled (using his metric of what a valid request is) that he will stand down from adminship at this time, and submit himself to an RfA no less than 2 months hence.

The following section is a tally of those who have asked for recall and who Crzrussian (not me) acknowledges as qualified to so ask. Only submissions are counted, and then only if Crzrussian does not say "I don't accept this one" or words to that effect. Those voicing support or opposing recall, etc. are not counted here. I base my putting people on this list on the discussion immediately below. I copied the bare user link and put it in an informational template, and the date, from the posting.

Certified Recall requests (count: 4)

1. Dmcdevit (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) - 08:54, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
2. Bishonen (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) - 12:52, 7 August 2006 (UTC).
3. Bunchofgrapes (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) - 15:31, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
4. Isopropyl (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) - 15:43, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Uncertified Recall requests (these do not count toward the tally)

• Ackoz (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) - 21:20, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
• Bonafide.hustla (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) - 22:24, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

As I've been asked to clerk, I'd appreciate others not modifying this sub section. If anyone spots errors please let me know. ++Lar: t/c 22:58, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

(If you think this should be a subpage that's transcluded, drop me a shout on my talk page... ++Lar: t/c 23:31, 8 August 2006 (UTC))

Submissions and discussion

Okay, I'll bite. You're in Category:Administrators open to recall, so here's my honest assessment. I no longer have full confidence in your judgment as an administrator. Not only did you unblock yourself, a serious no-no, and grounds enough for desysopping in my opinion, as well as making the very ill-considered comment that led to it , you blocked an editor with which you were directly engaged in edit warring, , for what was clearly a content dispute, and which you so much as admit in your threat, saying future attempts to inject this POV will be met with a block, inadequately giving a block warning in an edit summary, of all places, inappropriately using rollback for content reverts and edit warring, and even edit warring in the first place. And I don't even know the bakground of why you were previously blocked for talk page spamming. As far as I'm concerned, your abuse of unblocking and blocking powers, and rollback, and demonstrating poor judgment in your comments and warnings, and certainly in even engaging in edit warring at all, all in just the last few days, are certainly enough for me to call your adminship into question. So, accordingly, I would ask that you resign your adminship until such time as the community can reconfirm its confidence in your judgment. Thank you. Dmcdevit·t 08:54, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough. I do emphatically dispute I was "edit warring" inasmuch as I was merely protecting the integrity of the articles from inappropriate injections of POV without a dog in the fight, which in my mind makes me impartial to the situation and therefore able to block to repeated instances. (I've taken the liberty to remove another user's inappropriate comment in my defense, and ask that no such irrelevant comment be posted by anyone in the future. I don't need an advocate. Feel free to opine at my second RfA if one is forthcoming.) - CrazyRussian talk/email 09:50, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

As for the talk page spamming, I was using AWB to deliver a note to the many members of Wikiproject:Judaism about Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Judaism I had created. Cyde's immediate revocation of my block because he "didn't realize a sysop" is what actually gave me the idea that to unblock myself would have been appropriate. Ah, anyway, it was a mistake, as I've acknowledged multiple times on AN/I. - CrazyRussian talk/email 10:34, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I endorse Dmcdevit's request because of your self-unblock (I have no opinion of the other matters he raises). See the Administrators' reading list: "Admins are expected to have an intimate understanding of Misplaced Pages policy. They are also expected to consistently demonstrate comprehension of these policies. This is especially paramount regarding the use of abilities entrusted to admins which are unavailable to regular users and editors of Misplaced Pages." Bishonen | talk 12:52, 7 August 2006 (UTC).

I endorse the request too. Both the self-unblocking and the edit-war w/ blocking pointed out by Dmcdevit (I don't know if you had a dog in the fight, but judging "innapropriate injections of POV" is never without a subjective aspect and so policy demands that you don't do the blocks yourself in a case like that) cast doubt on your understanding of when it is appropriate to use the extra tools. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 15:31, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I would like to emphasize that I am not calling for Crzrussian's de-adminning based on what has occurred, but rather for a re-test of consensus regarding whether he should be an admin. I am also in Category:Administrators open to recall, and my personal take on listing myself there is that I do not feel it should be a big deal to have that consensus, that once existed, re-checked. Simply unblocking yourself may well be enough to merit the re-check, in my opinion -- and with the other issues, it seems more than reasonable. Personally I hope Crzrussian desn't step down, and doesn't remain a non-admin for two months or more, should the recall petition succeed. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 20:41, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

When I put my name in the recall cat, I promised to surrender the use of the sysop tools upon request. Now, it's obvious to me that if I stand for RfA2 right now, I will splendidly fail, because as many will tell you, the process is broken. Nor is it an attractive option for me go through that week-long ordeal again. If six users really do believe that my continuing as a sysop will be a worse for this project than my desysopping, then I will stand down immediately. I just hope that the pro-recall people have thought about the consequences in the same way. - CrazyRussian talk/email 21:43, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't accept your premise. There's clearly a consensus here for leaving you sysopped, and despite the frequent cries that RfA is broken, it wouldn't surprise me to see that consensus easily carried over to RfA. As for it being a week-long ordeal, didn't your RfA pass sixy-something to one? That's an ordeal? Or are you making a prediction regarding a new one? —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:52, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Eighty-six :) It was a small miracle - because fuddlemark didn't notice it. (Oh bring him in here, he'll be #5 and #6!) But yes, my RfA was draining. Your life on display, subject to disapproval. Disapproval anxiety is a powerful thing, even when there isn't much actual disapproval. - CrazyRussian talk/email 23:19, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I also endorse the request. I find the rationale given for unblocking somewhat disturbing: I think I have enough credit with this community to stay unblocked foir a while. Isopropyl 15:43, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

That was the rationale for not re-blocking as pointed out by me on AN/I. - CrazyRussian talk/email 15:44, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Now, if I understand correctly, if a fifth editor endorses, Crzrussian has the choice of resigning or of going through a reconfirmation RfA yes? JoshuaZ 16:03, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Need 6 total. I will ask Taxman or Redux to minus my privileges, and will not stand for adminship until a miminum of two months hence, if ever. Glad to be the first, JZ. lol - CrazyRussian talk/email 16:07, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Crzrussian - I'm so tempted.... :) Seriously Folks, I have had my arguments in the past with Crzrussian, but I do not feel that this "recall" is fair - and since it's the first case of something like this, maybe a larger number of editors should be required to vote "nay"- 5 is not enough... I oppose. JJ211219 16:35, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

"I oppose a recall petition at this time (does one no subtract a yes?) Who doesn't stumble ocassionally? The difference between a bad admin and a good admin is that the bad one will refuse to admit he has done anything wrong, and view criticism as persecution. A good admin will learn from the experience and be better for it. The concerns raised are not trivial but this is not the time for you to fall on your sword. Thatcher131 (talk) 16:42, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I appreciate the sentiment, but I don't think opposes are appropriate. - CrazyRussian talk/email 16:53, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

BITE also applies to new admins: " Remember, every administrator starts as a newbie admin and every admin has made at least one admin-related mistake! Help them out with their new powers as you would help a newcomer with the rest of Misplaced Pages." Crz has only been an admin since June 8. Let's put this down to teething troubles, as I don't think it's going to be repeated in a hurry. It would be a particular sign of good faith if Crz stated that he would help Yas121 to address his concerns. Tyrenius 17:00, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Endorse Dmcdevits request. And I think you shouldn't go for another RfA. This is not because of the self-unblocking. It's because you block far too much and for things that aren't in accordance with WP policies, you made more than one mistake already. I also find your over-commitment to the project worrying. RfA shouldn't bring you so much stress, it's a virtual community thing, not something your or other's life would depend on and your real life isn't on display actually. It is not true that over-commited people work the best. Realistic and cool people do. Ackoz 21:20, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Note, user Ackoz does not have the 500 mainspace edits mentioned in Category:Administrators open to recall as a generic qualification for calling for the recall. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:44, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Okay I'm not sure if this is the right place to recall Crzrussian but anyway based on the evidence I researched, I'll have to recall you. It's pretty obvious that your conduct is un-admin like and I'll be interested to see if the community is ready to re-confirm your status. Oh yeah, I guess I'm #6, please de-sysop yourself accordingly.--Bonafide.hustla 22:24, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

You're #5 and based on your talk page, some sort of a stalker. I am ignoring this person as well. Oh yeah, I guess I am at a loss for words. - CrazyRussian talk/email 22:29, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Stalker? Thanks a lot for the compliment, man. I'm really surprised how you become an admin in the 1st place 'specially with this kinda attitude. Please don't make unjustified accusation. I appreciate it.--Bonafide.hustla 22:47, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Then what in heaven's name is this about?? - CrazyRussian talk/email 22:48, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

ooooo...that's a misunderstanding. I'm keeping that to use against other admins with similar conducts. nothing personal.--Bonafide.hustla 22:50, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

ok. I've called in Lar who volunteered to serve as the clerk here. He will decide whether I am obligated to honor your rude request. If he disclaims opinion, given that this is a voluntary process, then your request is most emphatically denied. - CrazyRussian talk/email 22:55, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

It might also be worth noting that Bonafide.hustla doesn't have 500 mainspace edits, either. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 23:21, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Being uncivil to me is not gonna help you retain your adminship. Calling my request "rude" is an insult. I believe we had no previous run-ins. Bunch is the only one here who is stating a fact. I'm truly disappointed at your reflective style. If you are the one who is acknowledging who is qualified to recall you, I don't see the point of listing your name on admin open to recall. (in this case, i'm not referring to myself since I don't have over 500 mainspace edits).--Bonafide.hustla 05:28, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I will not be responding to this comment. - CrazyRussian talk/email 05:30, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Recall is voluntary. Offer of clerkship.

Remember... recall is a voluntary process. IMHO it is up to Crzrussian to declare/decide what exactly are the qualifications, numbers and so forth he wants to see (remember, if he is not reasonable, there's always RfC or ArbCom, so it's a good reason to be reasonable) before deeming the request valid I would like to offer my services (if this makes any sense) to help work through the process.... i will take no position on whether he should or should not accept the request, or what the outcome should be, but offer to help moderate, clerk, etc if the help is desired. My goal here is that this be a process that all see as fair, civil and collegial, and not excessively burdened with formality but that nevertheless ends up with a result that has consensus. If this meets with agreement let me know.

For the record, my own take on the process the way I'd execute it is that if 6 editors ask for recall, I'd start a discussion process (or a re RfA, or an RfC, whatever I chose) to see what the right outcome ought to be... 6 people so certifying would not mean I'd ask for desysopping, merely that a discussion be carried out... That discussion might end up with an offer to be mentored or a decision that there wasn't a big issue, or a resignation. ++Lar: t/c 17:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

That's definitely my understanding of how the process is supposed to work too. --Guinnog 18:23, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Aren't people meant to get warned for things on first offence, and given the chance to change, before action is launched against them? Tyrenius 20:24, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Are you referring to my block or to the recall effort? - CrazyRussian talk/email 20:25, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm talking about you being given a warning and the chance to change. Tyrenius 08:47, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

My offer has been accepted and I am clerking this for Crzrussian. Any issues or concerns please let me know. ++Lar: t/c 23:32, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Please don't step down without the process

I haven't been following the blow-by-blow here in strict chronological order, so I don't know what you last word so far has been, but in at least a few places you seem to have written you'll step down if nominated for recall. Please don't. That's not what a nomination is; just like someone nominated for adminship doesn't automatically become an admin, someone nominated for recall shouldn't automatically get recalled. I can appreciate that being the first actually nomiated for recall might not be a "first" you'd be proud of ... but if you think about it, I suspect you'd regret standing down without going through the process more. You're a member of Category:Administrators open to recall, and that's admirable; that should not be the same as Category:Administrators without a spine, however. Don't hand in your rouge yet, please.

By the way, you probably aren't in the reminiscing mood now, but I'll risk remembering my suppose or opport here. "...he is sometimes wrong, ... but ... doing the right thing eventually is enough". Yes, I do kind of wish I wasn't right in my statement there, but I don't regret my vote or the outcome one bit.

I won't say I'm proud of you for that comment, it was an insensitive and offensive thing to write; blocking someone you were possibly debating with was ... debatable ...; and unblocking yourself was an unnecessary violation of process, not WP:IAR. Bad move triple combo, you screwed up. But don't commit seppuku over it, you're still the person that 85 others wanted to trust with the flamethrower and mop, even knowing you might get water and sparks on things. You still do more good things than bad, many more. If you quit, you won't ever get the ratio even higher. Get over it, and I, and others, will be proud of you for that at least. Pick yourself up and move on. Try again. Fail again. Fail better. AnonEMouse 20:46, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Raising the bar

My concern is that recall in general, and this case in particular, will weed out the admins that are actually responsive to community correction, leaving the intransigent admins behind. I have hesitated to name names, but I am thinking specifically of User:Dbiv, User:Marudubshinki and user:Everyking. Dbiv is before Arbcom for misusing admin tools in an edit war, while on Fred's talk page, the Arbcom talk pages, and his own talk page he refuses to acknowledge he ever did anything wrong. Even so the committee was divided 4-3 on whether to de-sysop him. Maru, on the other hand, repeatedly used an unauthorized bot, first on a bot account, then his own account, and even gave the bot admin functions; and unblocked himself to continue to run the bot. And yet there was never any discussion here of desysopping him, just that he shouldn't unblock himself and should not run the bot again without authorization. And of course Everyking has been before arbitration at least 4 times, often for harassing other admins. If we force the issue and put Crzrussian through recall, won't we be saying to other admins, if you offer yourself up for recall, we will hold you to a much higher standard than admins who ignore community pressure after passing their RFA? Maybe raising the bar is a good thing, but there is no way Crzrussian should be the first guy thrown overboard. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Thatcher131 (talk • contribs) .

I think the idea behind the recall procedure is to hold oneself to higher standards than those enforced by the ArbCom. I think Crzrussian is doing the right thing by taking the complaints seriously. If he does hand in his bit I expect it will go a long way towards restoring trust in him for those who have lost it. With the huge amount of useful work he's done as an admin he'll have a landslide of support votes if he decides to stand again. Haukur 22:05, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm

This may be me, but it appears that this whole process might not be out of previous actions but, almost, out of curiousity about the process itself. That is ludacrious and I really hope that isn't what is occuring. Yanksox 22:53, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I'll do everything I can to make sure it isn't about the process and I hope others feel that way. Sure, at one level I'm glad to see a test case of this and if it goes smoothly and everyone agrees that the result is reasonable, that's a good thing but at another level I'd rather not see it happen. Since I'm clerking that's all I'll say at this time. ++Lar: t/c 00:01, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

RE: CSD

Thanks for pointing that out, I honestly never noticed that criteria before. I'll bear this in mind when tagging in the future. Thanks --AbsolutDan 13:15, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Video games and CSD

Why isn't a self-proclaimed non-notable video game a speedy candidate? --Fang Aili 15:58, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't see how "because it's a video game" is an argument. I'm gonna zap this one. There is no point in it sitting around when it is going to be deleted anyway. --Fang Aili 16:02, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Email

FYI, I've sent you an email. JoshuaZ 16:45, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Your mea culpa

I think you've written the opposite of what you mean. --Dweller 17:08, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

or Disculpame? Erisa Goss 17:17, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Eh? Yo no comprendo. - CrazyRussian talk/email 17:18, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

You said it was a personal attack. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 17:20, 7 August 2006 (UTC) Never mind, you got it. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 17:21, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

He's amended it, with this diff. --Dweller 17:22, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

You have received a yellow card

I hope you took this in the spirit it was intended. Read the image description if you're in any doubt. Best wishes. --Guinnog 19:29, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Signpost updated for August 7th

You are receiving this message because you have signed up for the Signpost spamlist. If you wish to stop receiving these messages, simply remove your name from the list. Ralbot 05:39, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Re : User:Mailer diablo/B

Speaking which, you decided to free up your userspace? ;) - Cheers, Mailer Diablo 06:28, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

• Two weeks at least. For some Misplaced Pages mirrors (which is why you may think it hasn't disappeared from search engines), up to possibly 2 months at worst. - Mailer Diablo 11:39, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

• It is in the form of one word? If it's so, then yes no. BTW you can just restore the redirect - I've deleted mine and replace with just the redirect, and a month later Google points only to my talk page with the userpage gone. - Cheers, Mailer Diablo 11:52, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

• Actually from just the keywords you simply gave, none! I actually added terms to check the page's mere existance. Apologies for the confusion. - Cheers, Mailer Diablo 12:14, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

You're a great admin

Just wanted to say that regardless of all this crap, 99% of what you've done here has improved the Misplaced Pages and the world surrounding it.

If you do step down, please step up again and let me know. I'll be happy to vote for you. --Dweller 09:28, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Damn right. Me too. --Guinnog 11:41, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Hopping on the train... Yanksox 11:42, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Pile on! CR, I know you are only human like the rest of us. I make mistakes, and I learn from it all. You are a good admin. JungleCat talk/contrib 13:24, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

From what I've heard and know your a great admin, I will definitly vote for you when the time comes around -- Lego@lost 04:14, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm not good on following stuff, but when I happens please tell me, and like I said before; you can count on my vote, mate -- Lego@lost 04:18, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Bogman2

check your email Bogman2 13:53, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Pure Pwnage Clan

sorry, i had no idea this was open to the other people.

the Pure Pwnage Clan thing is for reference for people to know we are the only official clan for Pure Pwnage. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by smokey019 (talk • contribs) .

ghost hunters inc

deleted, why? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nuekerk (talk • contribs) .

I see where you were going with that. It did fill some criteria for a vanity page. It makes sense. I'll make sure that all information that is submitted has source material and is verified next time.

Thanks for clearing that up so fast!

Gotcha. Do IMDB, talk show, and online news articles count as verification?

thanks again, much appreciated!

Hey have you gotten your centennial copy of the FLS alumni directory?

It's hot off the press Erisa Goss 19:05, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Unnecessary protection?

Just wondering why you have all your talk page archives on Full Protection. Can't really see any reason in it.--Andeh 23:43, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

That's why I have all the pages in my user space on my watchlist, sorry but there's nothing in the protection policy which says you should fully protect talk archives unless they are subjected to heavy vandalism.--Andeh 23:50, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

It's unnecessary.--Andeh 23:53, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

OK fair enough, but like I said. There's nothing in the policy which says you should protect talk archives (and I'm not an admin).--Andeh 23:56, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Sorry that I brought this up so soon after your bad joke incident. Please carry on your admin duties. Sorry to have bothered you. I noticed you offered to step down as admin if asked by a few users, please don't. ;)--Andeh 00:04, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

MCPON bios

I don't believe that rank alone, specifically not a major rank, entitles more than a mention on the MCPON page. What Misplaced Pages is not states "Subjects of encyclopedia articles must have a claim to fame besides being fondly remembered." True, the man is a MCPON, but is that a claim to fame? If so, then I can think of a lot of other people who may have a "claim to fame" on this site. If indeed the subject has a bio on a navy site, then simply linking to his and other MCPON bios in the Links section of that page should be sufficient. Basseq 03:02, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Re: User_talk:Chikinpotato11

Well, you being such a busy sysop and all. =D Though, in retrospect, the real life equivalent might be cutting off a cop in heavy traffic, which might be a bad idea. Hmmm. Luna Santin 05:05, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Re: The Metatron (talk · contribs)

D'oh! Thanks for pointing that one out! I love my box, stolen? From where? ;) Yanksox 05:30, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I know, I was giving you benefit of the doubt. You blew it! Btw, here's a helmet for all the stuff that's happening right now. Yanksox 05:38, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

File:Climbinghelmet.saa.jpeg

.

LOL! Well played. Yanksox 05:43, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Indian RfAs

Hello Crzrussian. There's been some disagreement in the noticeboard being used for this stuff, and it has been raised with me on my talk page. I'm not strongly affected by this either way, but a comment would be appreciated. Thanks, Blnguyen | rant-line 06:12, 9 August 2006 (UTC)