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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 69.196.164.190 (talk) at 08:31, 9 August 2006 (→re welcome to Greynurse). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

• (rocky start) Archive 1
• (until 17-06-2006) Archive 2
• (until 03-08-2006) Archive 3

Welcome to Tewfik's Talk page. Feel free to leave comments and criticism at the bottom of the page:

removing POV pictures

Hi

If we want to prevent editorial war, we should remove POV pictures.Refer to talk page of conflict article for more explanation.--Accessible 06:40, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

why you warn me

do you want to get a blocked for your own 3RR.you are not a GOD here. Yousaf465 Sir,your record is too bad.What you were describing as " problematic behaviour" was a hard fact.If you observe some thing of your own childhood children respond to children not to Hassan/Hizbullah. Anyway do you have any remote interest in photography. Which camera could you perfer Sony H-5 or Canon S3 Is.pl let me know i want one of these.would you help. How does you canon works,is it works fine or super fine.i really don't knew that you could own that canon,but it was the work of my ESP which works Super fine.

prisoner exchange.

I do have the the citation you need on the quote. check 01:27, 4 August 2006 Stephenzhu (Talk | contribs) (→Previous prisoner exchanges) version, with miami herald — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.10.56.164 (talk • contribs)

Thanks a lot

Nice to meet you.--Azmanet 18:19, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

You can speak Hebrew and Arabic!!! That's wonderful. I think they are enemeis!--Azmanet 18:32, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I wish I could speak in more than 1 lanquage. How do you learn these languages? Are you learn them in school?--Azmanet 18:49, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

camera choice

i didn't had any idea that you could own this.But could you give me some ideas about this canon s3 IS and it's performance with you.Sample are wellcome.Yousaf465 would you advocate canon s3Yousaf465

Hm...

I was not aware... the info needs to be put somewere in any case. --Striver 23:27, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

ah, i see it now... never mind me then. --Striver 23:29, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Hebrew translation

Do you know the hebrew translation you posted on my Abdullah Geelah in many languages page can you tell me the hebrew translation in English and how you say it. Abdullah Geelah 14:48, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Talk alteration

Okay, I just thought it wasn't a bad idea since they weren't signed and the header specifically asked so. --Peephole 05:51, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't believe that is true though, I have signed all of my posts and other users have, an archive would be nice. --JRA WestyQld2 06:21, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Well he claims above that he deleted the posts that hadn't been signed on his talk page, when all of them were signed including mine. --JRA WestyQld2 06:38, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

He selectively deletes his talk page. --JRA WestyQld2 06:51, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Casualty figures - Israel-Lebanon

I noted you said in your edit summary there is sufficent talk - but it has been noted after our dicussion on the talk page that the guardian article (which was sourced) specificially states "Yesterday the Lebanese government said that of the 828 of its civilians killed". Since the guardian article is a reliable source, claiming it's wrong is original research. Noting that other sources disagree isn't, though, so I think we should leave a range as we discussed before, which should cover all the bases. --Iorek85 06:12, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Lebanese Casualty Figures is the discussion I was referring to. I don't quite understand - as I've stated above, that article specifically says civilians, not a total figure which you quite rightly object to. I don't really think there is anyone more reliable that the Lebanese government, except maybe the Red Cross or Human Rights Watch. Why is it we take the Israeli government at their word but not the Lebanese? If we think they are unrelaible, why not just put "according to the Lebanese government" like we do for Hezbollah casualties? I just think using an outdated figure is unfair to them, especially since the Qaa incident has happened since then. --Iorek85 07:25, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

You're completely right that it is hard to get an accurate count, even for the Lebanese government. Still, I think the best option would be to use "828 according to the Lebanese government" and cite the Guardian or another article with this figure. We have a disclaimer about the accuracy in the casualties section already, so that should cover that. Then we just wait and hope someone will make an accurate count of just the civilian casualties we can use. --Iorek85 07:42, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough. It's just that 577 is so low - Reuters has more than 800 total now. Lets take this to the talk page of the article - I'm gonna go reference digging. (Nothing on T.V tonight here :))

Environmental pollution caused by DU weapons

Can you not remove this please? The pollution caused by the weapons is well known. Im placing it back in the article for a second time. Thank you. 82.29.227.171 14:39, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Re: POV organization

I totally agree w/ you. We remove Fisk's report and keep the NGO's reports. I only want the section organized using sub-titles as it is a mess. Feel free to tell me about any other issue. -- Szvest 17:34, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Re casualities. I've just corrected and reverted it. -- Szvest 18:06, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, i just read the sources and found out 828 instead of 833. -- Szvest 18:12, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Where is the history

Hi,

What has happened in the 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict? Why the history is missed?--Sa.vakilian 18:42, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Targeting of civilian areas

Hi,

I agree with new arrengement of this part and I think it's more clear and better. I'll add a part ==Independent Reporters==. Please help me with it to achieve NPOV edition.--Sa.vakilian 19:11, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Why do you remove some part of the article

I agree with you about Independent reporters but why do you remove HRW quotations?----Sa.vakilian 20:08, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

"Cowardly blending", human shields, etc.

See, the problem with all the "cowardly blending" and "human shield" stuff is that it's very value-driven, dependent on one's point of view and useful for political reasons.

My take on this particular case is that it's disingenuous to accuse Hezbollah of using "human shields" (not that the practice doesn't exist: far from it, and the Israelis are experts in the field). What's lost in the propoganda war is the fact that they're a guerilla force, not a uniformed army. What do people expect them to do: paint big yellow emblems at their rocket-launching sites? Make themselves even better targets for the IAF? Come on, get real. Think the Vietcong, the Algerian guerillas, any of dozens of other outnumbered, outgunned, outbombed forces. That's the way people fight on planet Earth when confronted by an overwhelmingly militarily superior adversary.

My further considered take on this whole outrageous situation is that "international law" has become such a pathetic joke, only honored in the breach, that it makes me want to puke, rather than engage in a solemn discussion of who's violating it, and how, at the moment. So I'm afraid I can't be of much help here at the moment. +ILike2BeAnonymous 01:18, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Support for Hezbollah from Syria/Iran

Guy Montag was the one who introduced the info - I've been arguing with him about whether it should be included/where it should go. I've put the text including the references as he gave them into the roles of non combatant article. Someone's removed the link to it in the 'international reaction' section in the main page, too, so I'll fix that. --Iorek85 04:22, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Congratulation

Hi,

I congratulate you the birthday of Ali Amiralmomenin.--Sa.vakilian 19:01, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Megaphone

Hi Tewfik. The section accurately quotes the Times article; the later quote doesn't resile the Times from its claim about the Foreign Ministry. I have changed the wording again to make it clear that the WUJS is responsible for the software, though. Hope that's OK. — JEREMY 04:43, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Just read the megaphone talk, and can't see anything to refute the Times' assertions. I'll certainly be keeping an eye on developments though. It could still easily turn out to be a scam to make Israel look bad. — JEREMY 05:02, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

War

Hello Tewfik! I've presented evidence on talk page (one article from each main news agency: Reuters, AP and AFP). Others contributors have chimed in. Words are important, but there is consensus to call it a war. Tazmaniacs 16:00, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Re Cluster bombs

Hi Tewfik. I am sorry to express my disagreement. The reason is simple. Please tell me if i am wrong. If we accept that, we'd be accepting bias. There's a big photoghraph out there alleging of Hezbollah launching rockets from Qana inside a section related to using human shileds. We need a balance Tewfik. I understand your concern about the size of the article, no doubt but that is really important and relevant info as much as other allegations are. -- Szvest 17:43, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Lol! I understand what happened now Tewfik. You are refering to what Avraham did. Well, logical and i totally agree as i told him. Cheers -- Szvest 17:46, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Hello again Tewfik. I've just answered Avi. There's a balance there Tewfik. Every party in this stupid conflict got its part of allegations and accusations. HRW accuses everybody according to their observations on the ground. We've heard enough comments in the talk page from editors supporting both sides (everyone is taking one anyway ;)) and that must be dealt w/. That's why we are admins. By the way, where are you from? Israel? Don't tell me Haifa or any targeted area there please. We want to see here alive as we want to see this conflict resolved so that every party gets what it needs w/o attrocities. -- Szvest 18:07, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

No worries. That wasn't unilateral to me as you stated that you are waiting for a reply. I don't see 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict#Use of wide dispersal pattern weapons. Anyway, my point is that the section i added is very relevant to the conflict. Both sides using humans and shields and using cluster bombs are war criminals. We cover the use of human shields and we do not cover the rest? Also, see the sub-sections!

• Advance warnings of attacks by Israel
• Allegations of Hezbollah's human shield usage
• Reports of Israeli pilots refusing to bomb civilian areas

What does that mean to the reader? If we have to remove that than we have to remove everything Tewfik which is against WP principles, policies and guidelines. If you're still doubting, Let's keep it here and discuss it in the article's talk page. -- Szvest 18:26, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Lol. Hi again. It makes sense of course. But if i follow your reasoning Targeting of civilian areas in the 2006 Israel-Lebanon_conflict#Hezbollah.27s .22human shield.22 tactics should be removed as well as it is on the other fork article. Please let's get it back and discuss it at the talk page if you wish.

Tewfik. Why is that considered POV? HRW is accusing someone and that encyclopaedic as much as everthing there is encyclopaedic. The size of the article is not a big issue and it is only a guideline. If that section is the only one creating a havoc re the size than so do the rest of sections. We've been working on articles longer than that. Many featured articles were as twice as long as that. Hizbollah is accused and there is a section but accusations re Israel are to have refuge to a fork article? That is not logical Tewfik. It's a real accusation and it's more important than 2 pilots refusing to shoot. It is as important as using human shields. If i were a judge i'd have given life sentence to both of them and not only to Hezbollah. Sincerely Tewfik. -- Szvest 18:52, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Shall we continue the discussion in the article talk page? -- Szvest 19:03, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Dear Tewfik. I'll have to leave now. Hungry mouth. Let's see what will happen when other contributors participate. I may come back probably. Was nice to have this discussion w/ you. To be continued. -- Szvest 19:15, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Why I removed the paragraph about Hezb. rockets w/ball bearings: The section, and the first paragraph, were about cluster bombs (munitions, if you prefer the mincing, polite term). Human Rights Watch has specifically protested the use of those bombs, as on this page on their site.

If you want a section that deals specifically with weapons that disperse shrapnel over a wide area, as the ball-bearing filled ones do, that should go in a separate section. Cluster bombs are a separate genera of weapon, as they contain bomblets, not all of which detonate upon impact (HRW states a 14% "dud" rate). They should be dealt with separately from other munitions. +ILike2BeAnonymous 23:05, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

re welcome to Greynurse

Thanks for the welcome.

Not sure what you mean by the not mainstream media bit? I note you left the Haaretz link but dropped the BBC link? I don't really mind which link - there seem to be plenty of reputable sources to the fact that a "diversionary" rocket/mortar strike occurred prior to the cross border raid. My point is this is critically important from an historical POV. ie. Nasrallah has been saying they only started firing rockets in "retaliation" for the Israeli bombing - this would appear to be an attempt to fuzz over the historical accuracy of what actually occurred. Same same for the "happened in Lebanon" conspiracy theorists. I liked the jumping HUMVEE bit in talk. regards Greynurse 08:09, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Please look at this information; it has great relavance with the present situation in Lebanon

A lot of evidence is showing up that is saying that the Jewish Holocuast is not what it was made out to be. There were alterior motivations for the Zionists. It all connects together.

This is some information to look over; it does challenge the conventional story. And before anyone starts making accusations of biase or anti-Semiticism...it is not I looked through it all. Zionists and Jews are not the same thing, neither are ISraelis and Jews. Just look at it to expand your horizons on the issue.

These are all documentaries on Zionism, the Holocaust, and how portions of it were fabricated or adultered. The first two is just collected information and also claims that there is a link with Septmeber 11, 2001 and the third was is a full visual documentary with interviews and academic explanations.

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-1984095615597363412&q=911+Stranger

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-5382004121587104053&q=Germans+and+Zionists

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=7272889307599304093&q=WWII+commentary

This is the full text of Benjamin Freedman's speech...a Jew who was once a leading ZIonist who later left the movement and said it was behind the death of Jews and both World Wars

http://compuserb.com/benfreed.htm

69.196.164.190