Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Publicgirluk (talk | contribs) at 19:40, 29 August 2006 (An end to the debate). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Attention: User:Publicgirluk is a wikipedian, and is entitled to the same respect as other wikipedians. If you have come here to compliment her, or complain to her do so respectfully, and in accordence with Misplaced Pages:Etiquette. HighInBC 00:27, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Another Note: Please do not leave your email address here, for the sake for your inboxes. User:Zscout370 00:48, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Welcome!

Hello, Publicgirluk, and welcome to Misplaced Pages! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

• The five pillars of Misplaced Pages
• How to edit a page
• Help pages
• Tutorial
• How to write a great article
• Manual of Style

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Misplaced Pages:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome!  ˉˉ╞┬╡ 09:37, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Hello, Lindsay

Lindsay, you are HOT!!! If you ever make it to the States, look me up, I'd love to walk naked with you down the streets of San Francisco! --Uilleam--71.133.184.102 22:58, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Sorry Uilleam - I'm not Lindsay nor do I know her - just my contribution to Misplaced Pages. --Publicgirluk 07:19, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Appreciation

Absolutely Amazing!, I love your hair, how to goes from a nice brown into a lovely blond color, when I get some free time, I'll draw a picture of you, ~Penguin

Thanks for the comments. I'm delighted that my contributions are valued. --Publicgirluk 07:19, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes they are, you gave me a good time. Continue! 84.202.133.179 14:57, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Note, a lot of the messages included email addresses, and out of the sake for their inboxes, the email addresses have been hidden by me. The comments are still there, but you have to click "Edit" in order to see it. User:Zscout370 00:47, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

A (relatively) serious request

Hi, an image that you modeled for and uploaded was used in the article Pearl necklace (sexuality). There is a consensus among the editors that while the picture itself has many fine attributes (as do you) it really isn't an accurate depiction of a Pearl Necklace. Is it possible that you would be willing (strictly for the sake of encyclopedic interest) to provide a more accurate image? While I'm actually serious about this request, I'd also like to add that if you're interested in having someone review your future adventures in modeling , you're most welcome to contact me via email. Thanks for your contributions to WP, and have a great day :) --Doc Tropics 17:11, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Doc. None of my pictures are modelled specifically for wikipedia they are just suitable pictures of me from my own personal collection. I thought the picture was representative but happy that others don't. If the bf takes a better one I'll upload it. --Publicgirluk 07:19, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

LOL, you seem to have your own fan-club here. It's obvious that your work is greatly admired :) --Doc Tropics 17:06, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

grins Indeed. ;) —Nightstallion (?) 21:05, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi, glad to see you're contributing, email me if you want! --TheM62Manchester 21:46, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

It is nice to know that I cause a stir Publicgirluk 09:04, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

website

Do you have website of your own?

No I don't have my own website, don't see the point Publicgirluk 22:23, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

I bloody well see the point, everyone wants to see you Nessuno834 22:49, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. Any of my edits are for the benefit of the article and aren't for personal gain. I have no desire to have a website. Publicgirluk 07:46, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

You seem like a fine, serious girl. You are a nice wikipedian. Maybe the hottest Wikipedian? :p 84.202.133.179 14:59, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Hopefully I am nice but I don't know about being the "hottest" Publicgirluk 07:01, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Thank you

...very much. HighInBC 23:00, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Discussion

Please see discussion on your work on AN/I. -- Tyrenius 15:09, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

thank you!

Thank you for your contribution to Misplaced Pages! Can you please take some photos to illustrate Cleveland steamer and Blumpkin? Thanks... 216.9.250.6 21:20, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

No that's disgusting Publicgirluk 23:05, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Sorry about the hassle

I am sorry that you are being harrased, people making indecent suggestions is bad enough, but the nonsense at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents is adding insult to injury. So I thought I would give some helpful advice.

It is perfectly acceptable to remove offensive content from you user talk page by deleting it and replacing it with a note with a link to the diff.

Example:

Offensive content removed.

This allows you to keep bad manners in their place while maintaining transparency. HighInBC 00:55, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

I endorse the above, but I wouldn't even bother linking to it. Just delete it. If you have any problems, contact me or another admin, or draw it to admins' attention by posting on WP:AN. Please see my response to your post on AN/I. Tyrenius 00:57, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi and Re: AN/I

Hi Publicgirluk; I know you were upset by the discussion on the Admin board, and I hope it doesn't deter you from editing. I can only speak for myself when I say that my only concern v/v your pics is the possibility that the person posting them was actually a disgruntled ex-boyfriend posing as the subject of the pictures, which is possible, and would be extremely regrettable. I don't believe you're lying, in any way shape or form, I just feel a sense of protectiveness, as a human being, not necessarily as an editor of WP, towards anyone who might unwittingly be being exploited. Happy editing, and please don't let the pervs get you down. I dig facials too, if I had a bf I might have beaten you to the pic. Anchoress 01:00, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi Publicgirluk, I apologize for rudeness on my or anyone's part in the discussion on AN/I. I believe you are making good edits and feel no ill will towards you, but that the issue is important enough that it demands some attention from Misplaced Pages administrators, maybe even Wikimedia Foundation officials or lawyers. —Quarl 2006-08-25 07:46Z

I think, to make it quite clear, it would be right to say that "the issue" means the issue in general, and is not an issue about Publicgirluk in particular. Tyrenius 08:05, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

There are two issues:

1. What should Misplaced Pages policy be on image downloading in general? This is constantly debated with no clear consensus.
2. Is there anything that can be done about Misplaced Pages's young male American geek demographics? (Europeans are more ho-hum about nudity) WAS 4.250 09:07, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Note, user accounts can't be deleted! --TheM62Manchester 10:24, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Not quite sure why that's been raised, but they can be deleted. Everyone has a "right to vanish", which means the user page and user talk page are deleted. The contributions history however is not deleted. Tyrenius 18:35, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Umm, why would anything need to "be done" about WP's young male American geek demographic? So far, it would appear that the positive editors are doing a good job of protecting Publicgirluk's page from vandalism and harassment. Why would anything more need to be done? Kasreyn 09:12, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Photo Request?

Hello! It is nice to see someone is willing to make the kind of contributions you make. I can tell from your talk and contribution history that you took some flak for it, and that's too bad. Your pictures are well done and show the ideas well, without being raunchy porn.

I know you don't take new photos specifically for Misplaced Pages, but do you have anything in your collection that would be appropriate for the Mammary intercourse article? Right now, all that's on there is a drawing that's not all that great. If you have something, it would be great to get that on there! --Mike Straw 11:12, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Barnstar

Holding in abeyance until you do, in fact, bounce back. AnonEMouse 17:27, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Sorry for the trouble

Hi Publicgirl. I just wanted to say that I'm sorry to see the trouble that the WP:AN/I discussion has caused you. It got out of hand and WP:AGF was forgotten, which should never happen, and I think I speak for everyone when I say that I was sorry to see that happen. I hope that you can bounce back from this incident, and continue to contribute to the high standered that you so far have :)

Yours, Thε Halo 14:32, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Time to Reflect

I would like to thank everyone for their kind words and support, especially Anchoress - thank you for your honesty. I think I shall take some time to reflect before deciding whether I wish to continue to contribute Publicgirluk 18:17, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Take all of the time that you need. Even if you do not want to do images anymore, you can still contribute with comments, texts and a variety of other things. I also wish to express my apologies over this situation. User:Zscout370 18:33, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

I hope you will. I've only now stumbled onto the flap at AN/I and I think it would be a terrible shame for the project to lose you as a contributor. And I am referring to your text contributions as well, not merely your images. Best of luck in whatever you decide. Kasreyn 09:27, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Various images and their provenance

As I see you're aware, there is some concern that you are not the copyright holder of various images, including Image:Woman Pearl Necklace.jpg, and others. I'd like to request that you upload a self-picture of yourself (clothed) holding a sign saying "I took this picture for WIkipedia." That should be sufficient to clear up the copyright issues, and avoid their deletion.

I understand how frustrating it can be to have good-faith contributions questioned. Nonetheless, Misplaced Pages is under a nearly constant flood of images with inaccurate copyright information, all of which put the Foundation at considerable legal risk. For this reason, images that are marked as self-published or public domain but which appear to be of high technical quality, such as yours, tend to come under particularly strong scrutiny. Please don't take that personally. Thanks in advance. Nandesuka

I am sorry you have been asked to do this. Since not one person has provided a valid reason to doubt your honesty I don't see how this request is justified. I am so, so, sorry. HighInBC 15:15, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

The above is one option, which would settle certain things. There are always other options and the matter is still being discussed on WP:AN/I, as it brings up issues that are wider in scope than these particular photos, and has perhaps revealed aspects of wiki that need to be addressed. If you care to participate in this, your contribution would be very helpful. Tyrenius 22:07, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

It is an offensive and entirely unjustfied request. Such a request belongs on a policy proposal page for all picture uploaders, if it belongs anywhere at all. See what comes of America's weird concern that there is something unnatural about nudity? (or that sex is unnatural, shameful, sinful, and a mistake on God's part) WAS 4.250 22:20, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. I have yet to see any good reason to doubt this user's claim of holding the copyright. If the person uploaded a picture of a tree for instance, no one would doubt their credibility if they claimed to have taken it. So why do we doubt her's? Ungovernable Force 23:16, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Because a lot more issues, both ethical and legal, come into play with pictures of naked people versus trees. There's no age law on tree nudity, for instance. Nor can the tree get upset if naked pictures of it get posted online without its consent. --Cyde Weys 23:24, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

There is no such law covering these pictures. WAS 4.250 23:45, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Also, I (and many other editors) doubt copyrights of photos that are non-nude all the time. There's nothing at all unusual, offensive, or unjustified about asking for proof of ownership of an uploaded photo, and if you think there is, that's just an indication that you haven't been paying enough attention.

I also agree with Tyrenius that my proposed solution isn't the only solution. I'm certainly not committed to that particular solution. I am, however, committed to finding a solution, and "ignore it and pretend there are no issues" is not acceptable. Nandesuka 23:27, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Let's assume for a moment the worst-case scenario: that some guy has pretended to be this woman and posted nude pics of her. If even the user is not the woman in the photos, that still doesn't mean that the guy may not be the owner of them. Traditionally, when one attests on the image-upload tag that they are the owner of the image, we accept it until someone proves differently. Again, in the worst-case scenario, if the photographer who took the images pops up outraged that their intellectual property is being used without permission, we do what we have always done: remove them. Misplaced Pages's policy has always been that the project itself is not responsible for what irresponsible people upload. I think this whole thing has had an extremely chilling effect on an already stunted-in-the-sex-department Misplaced Pages. wikipediatrix 23:47, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

I believe you are absolutely misstating the Foundation's position on copyright issues, as the extremely aggressive campaigns to find and eliminate improperly licensed images attests. Nandesuka 23:58, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

That is so not the worst-case scenario. --Cyde Weys 17:57, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Discussion of policy should be on the the appropriate policy talk page. This wikipedians talk page is a mess over people argueing about things that should be discussed on pages regarding policy. This is just my opinion and I may be wrong, but I hope not. HighInBC 00:04, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

File:Facial.png

I was going to leave a message in your support, but just found that the image File:Facial.png has been deleted. What happened? It seems to have been deleted due to "mass bad faith or copyright violating image uploads by a single user". Doesn't the above discussion come out in your favour? Is there any evidence of copyright violation? I thought the outcome of the discussin was to take you at your word = that's what i'd do any way. A debate may be going on elsewhere that i'm missing? If so, send me a message on my talk page and i will contribute. Spute 16:41, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

All of her images were speedied, and one was restored by an administrator. The deletion of these images is undergoing a Deletion Review, feel free to discuss what you feel about these deletions there: Dionyseus 16:45, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

The guy who deleted the images said that the reason given in the edit summary is inaccurate as it was just what was put there automaticly by the tool he used to delete. Ongoing absurd discussions about the unnaturalness of someone feeling ok with their body and other fun reflections of various POVs assumed to be universal can be found at Misplaced Pages:Policy on private photos of identifiable models Misplaced Pages talk:Policy on private photos of identifiable models Misplaced Pages:Publicgirluk photo debate. WAS 4.250 23:39, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Discussion

Much has been said in the discussion that I imply my own guilt by not contributing to what is now a lengthy discussion. For a number of admins, the reason for not contributing is going to come as a shock. Not everyone in the world, in fact the majority of people in the world don't have a holiday in the 4th July. Here in the UK, where I am (the clue is in the user name) we have something called a Summer Bank Holiday which was this weekend. As I now come to understand, Misplaced Pages is a little light on the subject. However, it is a tradional weekend when a significant proportion (typically around 10 to 15%) of the population of the UK disappear on long weekend break normally their last before Winter (cititation here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5283820.stm?ls). As you want me to comment I shall. On some of the specifics of the attacks on me 1) I am amazed on what the experts can deduce from a low resolution, highly compressed JPG file. Or rather I am not. They were taken in my room at universtiy by my BF. There is no studio lighting, props or other professional tools. They were cropped in paintshop pro by me prior to uploaded. I thought that was good manners as I assumed you didn't want to see a shot of my sofa and wall. 2) I am not a sock puppet but I am 22 (It is nice to know I look 5 years younger) 3) My BF and I make a lot of use of Misplaced Pages in our studies and wanted to contribute to the project. We have two great pastimes - our sexuality and english heritage. Sorry if that is a bit wacky and not like the people you know but that is the way it is. We have made a number of small edits on topics which we felt we could add value. By the way I can recommend the Concorde trip at Filton and no I wasn't the only girl on the tour. 4) I personally find it odd that certain admins feel there is difference between a picture of me with seman and a girl tied up, wearing a ball gag and suspended simply because they are dressed. I also fail to see how using one of pictures to illustrate a "cameltoe" is not sexual either but it takes all sorts 5) Just because comments are made in the third party and sprinked with weasel words. It doesn't prevent the comment from being personal or insulting. 6) Again, it is going to come as a shock, but no I didn't think the contributions would cause this debate. Misplaced Pages as far as we could tell, has lots of sexually explicit photos, has a bodly presented WP:AGF policy and doesn't detail any form of approval / moderator process. Most of our edits have past without comment. One photo was deleted as it didn't match the topic - something i disagree with but happy with the conseses. One other had a lively debate which quickly reached conseses and everybody moved on. After a significant period of time I am alerted to pages of debate somewhere else in Wikepedia where I appear to have been hauled before the great and the good of Misplaced Pages admins. My own POV is that every article should have an image - an image describes a thousands words. Misplaced Pages can do this, and it sets it apart from printed rivals because it can. If an article is not worthy of an image then the article is not worthy of inclusion. In hindsight there is a difference which is that the other pictures are uploaded by males and are not self-pics. I can't help wondering if the BF uploaded them under a male ID whether anyone would raise an eyebrow for being outside the norm. On some of the wider issues raised 7) Misplaced Pages does need a policy on whether living persons have to prove ownwership of pictures if it is to move forward with a consistent and fairly applied approach to articles or images they may offend in certain cultures. Alternatively it can stay as it is and bite when a picture offends the POV or offends the sensibilities of some of the admins for "not being normal behaviour" 8) I can understand the legal arguments but they apply to many pictures. More importantly, wikipedia is hosted on servers in several countries whose own laws, different to that in the US, apply. This implies that wikipedia would have to operate at the lowest common dominator yet no discussions has taken place on what this is, again a reoccuring theme of US law and US attidue dominate. 9) The number of edits is not a measure of worth. From what I can see most edits on wikipedia consis of formating and correcting typographical errors. I do not have the time to do this and have limited myself to edits which I believe add to the information content of the article.

When I joined wikipedia I did so with a view of what it was, two important elements was it was international in nature and that everyone was equal and had a valid POV. The debates have shown me that this is not the case, that wikipedia is in fact dominated by US editors and contributors who despite their well meaning and obvious loyalty to the project continue to display stereotypically behaviour showing a lack of understanding of anything outside their own borders and judge the world by their own values and beliefs.

Which leaves me on having to decide the way forward. I appear to have two choices; withdraw - delete my images, contributions and ID while undoubtedly hearing a chorus of "no smoke without fire" behind me; or post a photo of me is some kind of verifable pose to satisfy those who can not believe that a girl is comfortable telling people that she likes a man to ejaculate on her face.

Misplaced Pages is not what I thought it was, while there appear to be genuine understanding people here, there are others who I do not want to be associated with. I posted under WP:AGF and if that isn't sufficient then I am not going to perform like a circus lion for the benefit of a small few. I said in a previous post that I am comfortable with my sexuality, I am not ashmed but proud and I have no problem listening to the "I told you so"'s. I would be grateful if an admin could delete my contributions/images as I no longer give permission for their use.