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Misplaced Pages Mediation Cabal
Status	new
Request date	Unknown
Requesting party	Unknown

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Mediation Case: 2006-08-29 Talk:Asperger Syndrome

Please observe Misplaced Pages:Etiquette and Talk Page Etiquette in disputes. If you submit complaints or insults your edits are likely to be removed by the mediator, any other refactoring of the mediation case by anybody but the mediator is likely to be reverted. If you are not satisfied with the mediation procedure please submit your complaints to Misplaced Pages talk:Mediation Cabal.

Request Information

Request made by: Keyne 18:13, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Where is the issue taking place?

Conflict regarding alleged editor misconduct.

Who's involved?

User:Zeraeph, User:Keyne, and User:SandyGeorgia (latter only as the accused)

You forgot User:Perl, User:64.236.128.14 who actually initiated the discussion.--Zeraeph 19:08, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

What's going on?

Misconduct is alleged against User:SandyGeorgia. User:Keyne has requested multiple times for evidence of any such misconduct so that it may be addressed, to which User:Zeraeph has responded in irrellevant non-explanations and increasingly hostile tones.

What would you like to change about that?

User:Keyne would like to see that any such misconduct, should it exist, be addressed. Further, if such misconduct does not exist, that the section regarding the alleged misconduct be removed from Talk:Asperger Syndrome as it would constitute a rather lengthy series of personal attacks. Finally, an assertion regarding the outcome and verifiable ability for all editors to post would be extraordinarily welcome.

Would you prefer we work discreetly? If so, how can we reach you?

Discreet communication is not preferred. This has been a public dispute, and does need some public redress.

Mediator response

Compromise offers

This section is for listing and discussing compromise offers.

Discussion

While using the talk page of the article in question to solve a dispute is encouraged to involve a larger audience, feel free to discuss the case below if that is not possible. Other mediators are also encouraged to join in on the discussion as Misplaced Pages is based on consensus.

I feel strongly that User:Keyne is either a sockpuppet ot meatpuppet of User:SandyGeorgia, the similarity of syntax and word useage is positively alarming, and User:Keyne does not attempt to negotiate but only manipulate, in exactly the same manner. Thus, as on previous occasions, (here and ), I feel there is nothing whatsoever that can be achieved through mediation or discussion. I have repeatedly brought evidence of this issue into Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents (details here and here ), to which the only response has been deceit and manipulation on the part of the respondant. I think this is the beginning of an extremelly serious problem that, at this present time, can only be resolved through investigation of the kind for which Misplaced Pages does not have the resources. However, when another editor complains of the same issue, as in this case, honor obliges me to support them. When they are attacked for so doing, as they were, in this case by Keyne, honor obliges me to defend them. My only regret is that I wasted so many words trying to reason with Keyne before I realised any attempt was futile --Zeraeph 19:08, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

OKAY - My name is Kiwi. This is only the second time I've ever posted at Misplaced Pages, so this might not be done right. My apologies in advance. Leave complaints and comments on my talk page. :o)

User:Zeraeph has made a serious allegation about User:SandyGeorgia and User:Keyne and seemingly not for the first time. MeatPuppet was a term I had not heard before, so I decided to look it up. I found it in the UrbanDictionary.com. The definition shows this is an horrible insult to be leveled at any editor -

1. meat puppet

 person(s) that have no will of there own; somebody that lets others control them.

"George is Pats meat puppet, he does what ever she says." by Therese NC Dec 11, 2005

2. meat puppet

 A person that is totaly devoid of brain material; a complete idiot

by Zorglub Germany May 19, 2005

3. Meat Puppet

 Porn slang for a male porn actor

"Forget about it... you don't need to be a genius to be a meat puppet! He can be replaced easily..." by Courtney Apr 6, 2005

I wanted to know if this charge was legitimate or just a red-herring to derail this Mediation Cabal with spurious charges that would deflect attention from the true issue of this Cabal. So I pulled up both person's Contribution Pages and then spent a couple of brain-numbing hours seeing if it was possibly true.

First, I found that (except for the Asperger topic they both worked on to get it to featured article status) they didn't have any other topics of common interest.

What I found shows how impossible it would be. See the times below when both people were posting at the same times.

SandyGeorgia - 02:06, 18 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Talk:Asperger syndrome (→See also - check talk page)

Keyne - 02:06, 18 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Talk:Asperger syndrome (→See also)

SandyGeorgia - 17:21, 18 July 2006 (hist) (diff) m Talk:Asperger syndrome (→Article and prose size - typo calculate)

Keyne - 17:21, 18 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Talk:Asperger syndrome (→Causes section)

SandyGeorgia - 18:05, 18 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Talk:Criticism of Hugo Chávez (→Out-of-context quotation - go find it)

Keyne - 18:05, 18 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Talk:Asperger syndrome (→Causes - epilepsy - structure shift + response/question)

SandyGeorgia - 19:10, 18 July 2006 (hist) (diff) User talk:Mingus ah um (→Libya - will get to it)

Keyne - 19:10, 18 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Talk:Asperger syndrome (→Previous wording)

SandyGeorgia - 19:23, 18 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Macedonia (terminology) (→Terminology by group - grammar, please double check)

Keyne - 19:23, 18 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Talk:Asperger syndrome (→Previous wording)

SandyGeorgia - 22:38, 18 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Hugo Chávez (JR, please do NOT remove referenced text. The references are NOT on the talk page, and it is very hard to go back and re-construct them. Resolve this on the talk page, not by removing text.)

Keyne - 22:38, 18 July 2006 (hist) (diff) m Asperger syndrome

SandyGeorgia - 22:36, 18 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Venezuelan recall referendum of 2004 (rv, JR please don't delete referenced text. It is SO much harder to have to go back in the diffs to find the references and re-construct them. Resolve it on the talk page.)

Keyne - 22:36, 18 July 2006 (hist) (diff) m Asperger syndrome (→Notable cases)

SandyGeorgia - 22:50, 18 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Talk:Asperger syndrome (→Images and Lead - I like it)

Keyne - 22:50, 18 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Asperger syndrome (→Social impact)

SandyGeorgia - 13:18, 19 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Talk:Asperger syndrome (→Causes again - Rdos PMID sources)

Keyne - 13:18, 19 July 2006 (hist) (diff) m Asperger syndrome (→Research into causes)

SandyGeorgia - 15:17, 19 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Talk:Asperger syndrome (→Early intervention - also, increasing functioning in all realms)

Keyne - 15:17, 19 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Asperger syndrome (→Writing peculiarities - more)

SandyGeorgia - 23:09, 19 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Misplaced Pages:Featured article candidates/IG Farben Building (→IG Farben Building - strike, correct typo)

Keyne - 20:09, 19 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Talk:Asperger syndrome

SandyGeorgia - 01:13, 20 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Talk:Asperger syndrome (→Causes again - PMID)

Keyne - 01:13, 20 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Asperger syndrome (→Research - ugly attempt at a lead-in. needs tweaking)

SandyGeorgia - 01:54, 20 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Talk:Asperger syndrome (→DSM addition date ref - lose disease)

Keyne - 01:54, 20 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Asperger syndrome (dsm-iv link has first date at 1994 publish)

SandyGeorgia - 01:58, 20 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Talk:Criticism of Hugo Chávez (→Consultative Referendum (out of context quote - part 2) - that's a stretch)

Keyne - 01:58, 20 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Asperger syndrome (→History - rm disease-speak)

SandyGeorgia - 02:01, 20 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Talk:Asperger syndrome (→DSM addition date ref - stupid DSM

Keyne - 02:01, 20 July 2006 (hist) (diff) m Asperger syndrome (→Notable cases)

I finally got so tired of highlighting, copying and pasting, I gave up. The following is just to show the type of pattern I found innumerable times, too many to copy like I did the others.

SandyGeorgia - 18:16, 18 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Talk:Criticism of Hugo Chávez (→Out-of-context quotation - correct)

18:14, 18 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Talk:Asperger syndrome (Images)

Keyne - 18:15, 18 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Talk:Asperger syndrome (→Causes - serotonin - 'spoke too soon.)

18:13, 18 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Talk:Asperger syndrome (→Causes - serotonin)

I hope everyone can see that no one could do this so quickly and flawlessly: To log out of a screenname, change your ISPs, then log back in with another screenname, then always remember to post only in your subjects of interest and to always sign your name correctly.

No way can anyone do that -back and forth, back and forth, back and forth- for hours at a time, for months.

I hope this helps people see that Keyne is no one's puppet and that SandyGeorgia is not engaged in any fraudulent and deceptive participation at Misplaced Pages, never mind hidden attacks on User:Zeraeph. This has been nothing but a red herring thrown out to disparage and discount the reputation of both people. Kiwi 21:44, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

I am afraid that leaves two possibilities:

• Keyne as a meatpuppet acting on instruction from User:SandyGeorgia
• Sockpuppetry using two different, incompatible browsers eg IE and Opera, copying and pasting rather than typing.

The fact remains that Keyne uses words in a near identical way to User:SandyGeorgia, and pursues an identical strategy of passive/aggressive manipulation. That would a one hell of a coincidence if there is no active collaboration. I don't deal in red herrings, and the User:SandyGeorgia situation is easily the most genuinely alarming thing I have ever seen on Misplaced Pages. Time will prove me right. --Zeraeph 22:09, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

You are really a very funny woman. Your beliefs are purely crazy (note, I said your stated beliefs are crazy, not you as a person). Do you belong to the Flat Earth Society, too? :D There is no way in the world a sane person can suggest such a thing. It is too paranoid for words.

The only answer is that you are attempting to deflect an investigation by tossing red herrings left and right. You just don't want people looking at your behavior. That means you must have something to hide?

Can you support your claims? Don't give us that lame "Time will prove me right". You have posted users' IP address before so do it now. Prove yourself right now. Kiwi 22:28, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't think the above merits any kind of answer - ever. But am I the only one who wonders how a newbie who barely knows what an edit summary is can suddenly claim to know so much about people they do not know and an issue in which they have never actually been involved? --Zeraeph 22:37, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

So now you are trying to turn ME into the subject of this Cabal? But the subject of this Cabal is you, Zeraeph. Boy, you must have a whole chill box full of red herrings, the way you toss them around.

It is true I'm not a Wiki editor. I am just a psychology grad student who comes here to read -mostly about Asperger and Autism- for more than the past two years. I can read, go everyplace and read anything at all (I think?) It is incorrect to think that people do not exist until they stop just reading and decide to speak up. You don't really believe that, but saying that I am suspicious is your attempt to distract attention from yourself again.

Now back to the subject at hand -- your problems playing nicely wtih others.

Kiwi 23:09, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't think so...I am afraid I refuse to interact with either sockpuppets or mind games, let alone both. I will make no further posts on this namespace. --Zeraeph 23:26, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

This page has asked me for an edit summary, but I'm sorry, I don't know what that is. The only thing I know how to do is "sign my name" with those squiggly things. Kiwi 21:44, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

I cannot help also observing the curious incidence of a new editor who has never edited except on this particular issue, thus: . My deep, gut feeling is along the lines of "the new editor doth protest too much" - and that IS just my genuine gut feeling...and anything else would be a lie. --Zeraeph 22:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

See what I'm dealing with? Paranoid conspiracy theories and personal attacks abound. Assistance would be greatly appreciated, as I don't prefer being deemed a non-person on the grounds that I don't agree with someone--worse, even if I do! In retrospect, this may be beyond what the Cabal is willing to handle, so if that is the case, recommendations would be very welcome. I'd really like to get this mess resolved, and I'd really prefer to return to "being a person" again. :) --Keyne 13:06, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Just one further comment from me regarding this train of thought from above: "I am afraid that leaves two possibilities:" Note that Zaraeph cannot fathom that I'm my own person, and only considers anything I may write/think as being a sock/meatpuppet (and no, defending or agreeing--and even disagreeing--with some points of Sandy's makes me neither). --Keyne 16:23, 31 August 2006 (UTC)