Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Giano (talk | contribs) at 19:30, 31 August 2006 (→[]: archiving a very unpleasant smell). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Hello

I will file an RfC against you if you harass me any further. She does not have any relation to me; you can tell this by going through her contributions and judging by her writing-style. We do, however, share similar interests, but not very strong interests. Remove your ridiculous comment. —Eternal Equinox | talk 21:36, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Still with us then? You must behave in whatever fashion you see fit - I merely pose the question I am sure most other editors are wondering. You are the architect of your own misfortune. Giano | talk 21:39, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

You are the epitome of hell. —Eternal Equinox | talk 21:41, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

So my adversaries never tire of telling me Giano | talk 21:50, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

It's true enough that the question immediately occurred to me. It looks relatively unlikely, though. I sure wouldn't want to be nominated by such a puppetmaster though. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:43, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Beautiful. —Eternal Equinox | talk 21:45, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

No I'm sorry Eternal you can't be Marilyn, cos we all know she is dead, that sock would not last 5 minutes. What about Edith Piaf, she was dreary little woman too, that might last a little longer. Other than that I can't think of anyone else you could be Giano | talk 21:50, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Maybe God? —Eternal Equinox | talk 22:05, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Well I see his page his page is protected just like yours, but I don't think so. Anyhow don't let me keep you, run along now and play outside. Giano | talk 22:09, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm already outdoors. —Eternal Equinox | talk 22:12, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Giano, be careful!

Oh, noes, file an RFC! Giano, are you mad, to invite such a fate? Prepare yourself for hell, that's all. Bishonen | talk 02:25, 8 June 2006 (UTC).

Hell is other people's baked goods. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 02:50, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

I may be slow but...

Don't say I don't do anything for you. -- Francs2000 21:58, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Hey, my house! —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:59, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

It may look posh but it's actually quite small inside. Probably why this style of construction didn't catch on in Aylesbury... -- Francs2000 22:02, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

PS there's these two as well, in case you're interested. -- Francs2000

Thanks Graham, that's terrific, but it doesn't look like I remembered from almost 25 years ago, it's surely the end of a mostlye demolished building. Anyhow hopefully that will be the incentive to finih the page. BoG stop stalking my page or I will RFC you! Giano | talk 06:14, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Bring it!—Bunchofgrapes (talk) 15:00, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Well in 1860 it looked like this, with Long Lional still running along the side of it separating it from the White Hart. Again in 1911 it was exactly the same. Perhaps your memory is playing tricks with you? -- Francs2000 09:44, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

I've just noticed Graham - why are you flying the tricolor, I though you would have supported England in the world cup? Giano | talk 16:52, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Having trouble counting to three, dear? Those are the six stripes of the rainbow flag. Bishonen | talk 16:59, 10 June 2006 (UTC).

Oh!!! I hadn't got my glasses on. Giano | talk 17:01, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Engerlaaand, Engerlaaand, Engerland Engerland la laaaa

In all the time that you've known me do I appear to be the sort of person who would even understand football, leave alone shown flags in support of it? For Eurovision, no problem, maybe even for the Olympics. Right now I just wish the World Cup would go away... -- Francs2000 17:40, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

I believe the phrases that Francs2000 was looking for were "In-ger-ler-ernd" and "we are going to score more goals than you". -- ALoan (Talk) 09:51, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Yeah well, I'm sure someone will score some goals for you, but will it be England, hohohohoho! Dream on ALoan! Giano | talk 14:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Well thank you Giano, the Italian flag has been printed off and is flying from my car as we speak. What's that noise, it sounds like glass breaking followed by a car alarm...? -- Francs2000 15:31, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

FYI

You might be interested in Misplaced Pages talk:Featured article review#FAs with citation problems. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 20:08, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

No I'm not interested! If people prefer to make lists of the shortcomings of others work, rather than write FAs themselves, then that is a pity for them! But thanks for bringing it to my attention Giano | talk 21:09, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

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Message delivered by Ralbot 01:37, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

exemplar of 2a prose

Hi Giano

I note your views concerning the new referencing requirements for FAs, the thorny issue of how it affects existing FAs, and the debate you had with Wackymacs about it.

I thought you'd like to know that I've been asked a few times for examples of model prose in FAs, and I recommended Sanssouci.

Tony

Excellent - so, to create the perfect article, we simply copy and translate something from German Misplaced Pages (for its precise phrasing and formal grammar), pass through an Italian (for flair and panache), and add a few other bits and pieces (including a soupçon of English fiddler, and a dash of Australian). -- ALoan (Talk) 11:01, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Actually ALoan, I have just read that properly, you are being bloody rude! I did a complete hatchet job on Sanssouci, through out most of it, imported other bits, and still managed to keep the original, nominating, authoring editors (who had done the real hard work) happy. Called in you and the others for back-up, all in the space of the week it was on FAC. Sanssoucci was not so much an FA as a fucking miracle! Giano | talk 20:37, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Rude, moi? Shome mishtake, shirley. -- ALoan (Talk) 20:57, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanyou Tony. So basically what I've always said write it, and then get your mates to check it and their ten pence worth! Giano | talk 12:18, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Belton

Thanks for your note. The MGC’s time there is only a very short part of Belton’s history but it is an important one in that the corps was a significant link in the chain of events and organizations which won the First World War. My brother knows more about this subject than I do and I shall be seeing him before the end of the month so I’ll let you know what references he has. Meanwhile, there are some bits and pieces available, though you have probably found them already by Google search. http://www.1914-1918.net/mgc.htm summarizes the MGC’s history but with no more than a mention of Grantham. (The depot was in the southern end of Belton Park, which runs into the northern end of Grantham so in this connection, for Grantham, you can read Belton. Indeed, some of modern Grantham is on land which was formerly wartime military camp but I believe that most of the army property outside the park was used by non-MGC units. The Misplaced Pages article Machine Gun Corps repeats the story and is based on material from The MGC Old Comrades’ Association. The link in the article is now dead but seems to have been replaced by this one http://www.machineguncorps.co.uk/ . There is a bibliography on http://www.regiments.org/regiments/uk/inf/MGC.htm#monu . There are several links like this http://www.ozigen.com/tree/p621.htm ,which mention training at Belton but are brief . However, this gives a little more incidental detail http://www.jjhc.info/heathleopold1966.htm . Here we get a hint of the conditions there http://walterwildgoose.blogspot.com/ . (RJP 21:27, 15 June 2006 (UTC))

Belton House footnotes

/me is ashamed. I'm sorry! I abase myself in apology! I went medieval on the Footnote Extravaganza! I couldn't stand it — you realize there are as of now only FOUR actual references that you've used? And all those footnotes went on and on making a full meal of each of those four books over and over... I'm sorry, I couldn't stand it, it was killing me. Revert if you don't like it (and if you wish to kill me). Meanwhile, please add places of publication in the References section, where I've indicated it, and if you have the books handy. (Incidentally, what I've done is a simple standard reader-friendly academic-journal system, as used in the balloon article, and as opposed to a Special Barbed Wire Wikipedian Erudite-Looking Weirdness Used Nowhere Else.) Bishonen | talk 21:03, 16 June 2006 (UTC).

Well done - it needed doing. I was leaving it for another round of copyediting.

Kinsman, eh? -- ALoan (Talk) 21:41, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Hmph! Well what is the word I wanted then? Giano | talk 09:24, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Whyn't you just read my edit summary? The word is cool. Having it linked is bad. The link leads to an article about Kinsman as a surname. I unlinked it. Bishonen | talk 09:31, 17 June 2006 (UTC).

My fault for linking it, most likely. Why haven't we got an article on kinsman (not as a surname)? We could move the current one to Kinsman (surname). -- ALoan (Talk) 09:09, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

DYK

On June 17, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Belton House, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

smurrayinchester 21:20, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Nice houses

Nice work on expanding Belton House from an outhouse of an article to a castle! ... and also your many other architectural articles. Have a nice mansion as a memento! With regards and respect... ++Lar: t/c 21:54, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you Giano | talk 22:06, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

A little more work and condensing before it is finished yet, but thanks. I am quite smugly please with the lead foto, and the garden and church one. Amazing as I just poited the camera and fired, no fiddling and twiddling at all. Giano | talk 08:30, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Belton House Images

I notice that you've uploaded all of the images that you took of Belton House as GIFs. GIF is not a suitable format for the image types you have uploaded. It is limited to 256 colours and is suited to diagramatic files and simple shapes. Photographs are far better uploaded as JPEGs. David Newton 21:57, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't know the difference, I just upload from the camera to the computer, and then computer to wikipedia - some hidden robot somewhere does all the GIF and JPEG stuff, nothing to do with me! Giano | talk 22:06, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Check out Imagemagick, it can convert stuff for you. Most modern cameras save as jpeg already... ++Lar: t/c 22:10, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

They look beautiful on Firefox. Splendid article, Giano. Among your best. --Wetman 02:38, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Apologies

Regarding Neo-Renaissance, please accept my apologies if i have been discourteous. I stumbled across the article and it didn't seem to have been edited (other than the odd tweak) for about a month, I was impressed by it's quality and so was bold and submitted for peer review. No offence was intended, actually the reverse. --Mcginnly 00:34, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Don't worry. Ghirla and I have undertaken a mammoth 19th century project and are taking our time so we don't loose interest and entheusiasm. Giano | talk 08:31, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

• Good stuff. By the way, whilst architectural history isn't exactly my field. I do remember a lecture once where I was told that Ruskin argued that; Venetian gothic was a particularly apt style for mercantile buildings (for obvious reasons). There's a profusion of examples in manchester such as:- and and and and and . If you'd like me to get some photographs for your article I don't live too far and I'd be glad to help. Regards --Mcginnly 19:10, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Willoughby marriage

You got your message in very smartly. I had altered the link then noted the problem you pointed out. While I was still trying to reconcile the pieces of information, I got notification of your communication. My easiest course is to revert my alteration but that would still leave the question of which Lord Willoughby the dead daughter was lined up for. There were two lines of Lords Willoughby, de Eresby and of Parham. They were on opposite sides in the Civil War. I guess that your source does not make the matter clear, as you have not already clarified the matter in the article. The de Eresby line was the one prominent in Kesteven. You will of course have noted the Baron Willoughby de Eresby article. I shall leave it to you to revert my meddling so that our actions do not conflict. Sorry. (RJP 20:00, 18 June 2006 (UTC))

BP

I saw that you made a comment that came and went. Apologies if you don't like the changes - he is only trying to help. -- ALoan (Talk) 10:29, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Belton House

So? Let me know when (if) you'd like a bit of a copyedit. Sillily, I haven't actually read the article yet, it strikes me. And how would you like those notes? (I'm only trying to help, too... ). Bishonen | talk 19:37, 19 June 2006 (UTC).

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Message delivered by Ralbot 23:30, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Greetings!

Greetings, Giano!
I've been away for about six weeks. I am pleased to see some of my articles have been patrolled in my absence (e.g. Katie Holmes). Haven't heard from you in a while. How are you doing? PedanticallySpeaking 16:53, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

The south front

Yeah, yeah, it may have been known as the south front, but isn't "south" rather awkward for an encyclopedia entry? I'm going to change it to "north", a much more encyclopedic word. Bishonen | talk 21:38, 21 June 2006 (UTC).

Please do not attempt to disrupt me, when angered I am extremely unpleasant, nasty and vindictive, not too mention vitriolic and grudge bearing, and I may just shoot that balloon out of the fucking sky......OK? Giano | talk 21:44, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Surely that's the back not the front? Paul August ☎ 21:46, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Don't push it sunshine! Giano | talk 21:47, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, I'm sorry, but I really am that picky! All right, I have a compromise suggestion: "southernmost." This is my final word. Bishonen | talk 22:13, 21 June 2006 (UTC).

Belvedere caption

What on earth are the machine gun corps and so on doing in the image caption to the "belvedere" pic? They seem quite extraneous. Are they hiding behind the trees? Also the link belvedere goes to a disambiguation page. Please check it out. You may have to edit the disambiguation, because I can't tell what to link to from it. Bishonen | talk 12:33, 22 June 2006 (UTC).

It is Belvedere (structure), the army are hiding in the trees because they were based in the park during the wars, take them out if you like, I just thought ir was nice to give them a plug! I'm like that kind, caring and thoughtful. I won't edit in case you are in there. Giano | talk 12:46, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Help!

Help, I've linked overthrow! Now you're gonna have to write a stub and a disambiguation! (Incidentally dream team was a powerfully useless link.) Bishonen | talk 16:41, 22 June 2006 (UTC).

Rosing Park

Hello, Giano, the World Cap distracts me from Misplaced Pages these days, yet I don't give up and even started to revise Baroque architecture, where the coverage of English and French Baroque is limited to a couple of disjointed sentences. I'm not sure that I will be able to add anything informative without an expert's help, however. I liked your Belton House immensely. As for Rosing Park, I have a DVD with a documental about the locations where the last year adaptation was filmed. Burghley House seems a little too grand for the social milieu described in the novel, don't you think? Belton House suited the role so much better. But then the new film is full of other anachronisms, you know. --Ghirla 18:01, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

P.S. I cannot agree that the St. Pete Duma is Gothic. I thoroughly concur with your assessment of the Berlin Town Hall, its similarity with the Belfry of Bruges cannot be overlooked. --Ghirla 18:03, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the Italian squad was lacklustre in the Saturday match. Back in 1948, La Squadra Azzurra beat the Yanks 9:0. What, do you want to turn back the time? :) --Ghirla 18:24, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

• Hmph! We have no need to turn back the clock. You ain't seem nothing yet! Forza Italia. Point me again at the St Pete's I said was Gothic, I'll have a second look Giano | talk 18:29, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

  

Well, it so happens that I completed Mansfield Park a week ago and my head is still full of this book. I recollect that the director of the latest film justified his choice of Burghley House by saying that Lady Catherine personifies the old-money gentry. I believe it was the similarity of names - Bourgh, Burghley - that made them connect the two. Belton House worked fine for me in the older film, although I agree that it was not that modern. If you want a modern house, you should review these in the first place. It's quite unlikely that Capability Brown has had a hand in this project, however. I will add more observations to the talk page later --Ghirla 17:56, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Disambiguation...

Sorry to keep inventing stubs for you to write, but Saloon is also a dab page. Bishonen | talk 20:06, 22 June 2006 (UTC).

Er. And I've linked enfilade. Uh, it turns out to be a military concept only. Dab page needed. Well... how could I not have linked it? Bishonen | talk 20:17, 22 June 2006 (UTC).

Mmmm, yeah. You've linked dilettante, I see. Needs a stub, sorry. Bishonen | talk 21:23, 22 June 2006 (UTC).

Er? What?

The "Great Dining Room" takes its name from the chequer-board floor? Not getting it. Bishonen | talk 20:54, 22 June 2006 (UTC).

Neither do I, it shoulf be the Marble Hall! Giano | talk 21:43, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Why would you play marbles on a checkerboard? —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:51, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Are you all being deliberatly obtuse? I do I really have to expain what a chequer board floor is? Giano | talk 21:53, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Does it have something to do with the Chancellor of the Exchequer? Oh, these crazy British things just give me a headache! —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 22:21, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

• Then take an aspirin. If you don't know BoG, I'm certainly not going to tell you Giano | talk 22:28, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Mail. Bishonen | talk 22:22, 22 June 2006 (UTC).

Nominate!

Nominate now! Bishonen | talk 22:51, 22 June 2006 (UTC).

about a Belton House ref

"Halliday, E. E. (1967). Cultural History of England. London: Thames and Hudson"

While looking for ISBNs to compelte the article's references, I've found plenty of references about either this or an "Illustrated Cultural History of England", but almost all of them are credited to a "F E Halliday", allother things (editor and year) being identical. Could you look up whether or not your copy has an ISBN or full author name somewhere to confirm? Circeus 23:56, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Giano's gone to bed, Circeus, he's on European time. I'm sure you can assume that your book is the one intended, and that the "E.E." is just a Freudian typo. Bishonen | talk 00:17, 23 June 2006 (UTC).

I never expected him to answer on short term. I just like to check things thoroughly. Circeus 14:20, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Belton House

So you took the pics; does that mean you live in England, not Sicily as I'd assumed? Tony 09:47, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

• Thanks for your support Tony, I appreciate it. "Assumed" didn't some one once say that "assume" makes an "ass of U and me"? - Lets just say I am a very well travelled mongrel;-) Giano | talk 13:02, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Re: Belton House

I'm not too familiar with them myself, but I think I've managed to get it to produce something sensible now. Kirill Lokshin 13:16, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Ghirlandajo

How well do you know Ghirlandajo? (you can reply here, I've watchlisted you) Ideogram 20:56, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Belton House measurements

No problem on those measurements...they must not want anyone to take pictures? I wonder what the purpose of that is...maybe so they can sell theirs? Though I am one of those natural resources people, I admire architectural achievements of all types. Supposedly, my ancestors had Shirley Plantation built and also Carter's Grove...I must have been descended from one of the younger sons...you know primogeniture! Oh well, good job on Belton.--MONGO 21:55, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

• Personally I think primogenture is marvellous. But you have a couple of potential FAs there. Yes they do sell their fotos, and sadly I have yet to perfect the art of mobile phone photography, especially when looking furtively over the shoulder at a elderly lady who is a National Trust guide, giving the impression of having won both world wars single handedly for the British. I shall keep seeking for the dimensions. Giano | talk 22:01, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

A request

Hi Giano, we've never really met, except that I have voted to support a couple of your FAs. I have noticed, though, that you've made great contributions to architectural topics, and I wanted to propose something to you which you might like to consider. You might be busy now with Belton House or other things, I am busy at the moment as well, finding footnotes and preparing Expressionist architecture for PR, so the time frame for me is not to really start for a couple more weeks. I wanted to see if you wanted to help collaborate on the article Architectural theory. Right now it is a very short stub, but I think it has potential and after my current project am going to devote most of my efforts towards this article. It seems to me that you are more fit to cover Vitruvius and Palladio, and maybe more than I am, and wanted to offer this for you to consider collaborating or just to hear your opinions. By the way that animated compound tetrahedra is amazing. DVD+ R/W 20:39, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

• Goodness me! That is a huge subject, I'm not sure that it can even be covered in one limited encyclopedia article. At the moment I am involved with a massive 19th century architecture project, which I am already neglecting, and I have also just agreed to a collaboration on another major project - so I really do not have the time at present for what would have to be a very highly re-searched and referenced page. I shall certainly put it on my watch list and add anything that comes to mind I think necessary as it arises. Thanks for asking me. Good luck with it Giano | talk 12:53, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

E.E

Yes, I'm aware of the RFA against her, and I do plan to comment. However, I'm a bit busy with work, so this will have to wait until tomorrow. Regards. Oran e (t) (c) (e) 19:06, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Ho, hum, another day, another Giano FA

Congrats on Belton House, GIFs and all! —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 22:16, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Oh, yawn, another FA? Thanks for reverting the troll, btw. I've indef-blocked the account now (and the IP for one week). Bishonen | talk 22:19, 27 June 2006 (UTC).

Thanks for the good wishes, I never really understood all that GIF business so was glad it passed in case there was a pile on on the subject. Funnily enough some kind soul (I think it was Brian 007 or (whatever he is called) did convert it to a ping or whatever but it just put the house bang on the tilt (English say: on the piss) which I hade edited out in the first place. I seem to become more confused by the moment these days. Giano | talk 15:36, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

West Wycombe Park: naive and unencyclopedic - well, we were all young once. How many aliases have you got? -- ALoan (Talk) 21:55, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

• I haven't a clue what you are talking about ALoan, you've obviously been drinking far too much of that disgusting warm beer in the today's lovely sunshine. Giano | talk 22:06, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

RFAR

The RFAR has been accepted, did you notice? Not "opened" yet, though: you'll get an official message from a "clerk" when it is. Bishonen | talk 23:37, 29 June 2006 (UTC).

I took a look. Oh dear, at least one of the earlier names of that person rings a discordant bell. Yes, "I'm leaving Misplaced Pages now!" (and coming back with a different name next week). What a pain in the posterior. -- Hoary 14:01, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Mentmore

That description from the seventies: would anyone of your acquaintance happen to be able to come up with any reason for it not to be called "original research"? -- Hoary 14:01, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Fire in de hole

OK, I'm starting something for John Vanbrugh Enterprises right now! The bits of text are from the present wiki article, and my headings will probably be gone without a trace soon. You know me, I begin at snail's pace. And if we're lucky I pick up speed and and end in a tortoise-like rush. There is an embarras de richesse of material for it, but the problem is to swallow the "Through eyes misted with tears, Thomas cast a final look..." type of narrative of the fat library books I've got. I'm looking high and low for a drier, to me more palatable, account to complement the fat books--something like a chapter in a general social history of London, perhaps. Please give me a shout if you find anything suitable. Good that you're packing the books! :-) Bishonen | talk 21:29, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Comment removal

Why are you removing legitimate good-faith comments from other users' talk pages? Please respond here rather than on my talk page.Timothy Usher 09:57, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

• Please read Bishonen's edit summary. Thank you Giano | talk 10:03, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Are you her keeper? The reason I ask is this: I want to know whose comments to remove from my talk page, yours, Bishonen's or both. By appointing yourself to act on her behalf, you needless complicate and prejudice what is otherwise a straightforward decision. Despite her edit summary, Bishonen may well have chosen to keep channels of communication open.Timothy Usher 10:07, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

• I strongly doubt it; in my experience Bishonen is able to express herself quite clearly. She has asked you not to post again on her page. Please respect her wishes and stop making a nuisance of yourself. Thank you Giano | talk 21:22, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

• Great word "nuisance". :-) Netscott 01:05, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Eternal Equinox

Hello,

An Arbitration case involving you has been opened: Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Eternal Equinox. Please add evidence to the evidence sub-page, Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Eternal Equinox/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Eternal Equinox/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, --Tony Sidaway 11:24, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Fire and brimstone

You have the perfect starting point! The churches are missing in my Reddaway library book, The Rebuilding of London, from 1940. That's about "the secular and greater work", apparently much less known, at least in 1940. "With... no chronicler to tell of the efforts of the dispossessed, it has been overlaid and forgotten. The city government left voluminous records, but the maze of its committees have many centres and no single clue... The focal point is the struggle of the community to survive destruction." The book doesn't look to be very much about architecture, even, so far. No pelmets. :-) More social and economic. He's dug into those records. Note the publication date, 1940—during the Second Great Fire of London—he draws some parallels in the preface.

I like this book! Much more serious and informative than the two modern ones, see References. I'd love to know what you think of it— I see amazon.co.uk has one hardback copy, hint hint. :-) What's your Haliday book?

You know, this is a huge subject. Maybe we'll be forced to do a whole web of articles. (Groan.) Bishonen | talk 17:38, 1 July 2006 (UTC).

OMG it's still going on

It never ends! People spend their lives obsessing about this! I've had it with this nonsensical wiki system that immediately unravels every sensible decision ever made! I'm going for an interview with the Encyclopedia Britannica on Monday! Bishonen | talk 02:19, 2 July 2006 (UTC).

• Well my little Princessypoo, in my vast experience those that are obsessive about addressing the titled in growing and lavish forms of obsequiousness are generally those that never meet the titled, those that address a Grand Duke with "G'day mate" are often amongst the highest born. many of those republican sounding Wikipedians are probably polishing their tiaras as we speak. Incidentally odd name that User: Codex Sinaiticus sounds like a cure for hay fever. Speaking of which I am suffering terribly, and have to fly tonight, so will not be about tomorrow - so keep the home fires burning. Giano | talk 10:36, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

English Baroque

I spinned off the stub from Baroque architecture to collect some of the redirects, which formerly led to Baroque, which is of little help to our readers. The data and even some sentences on this page have been gleamed from your own articles in WP. Now you are welcome to rewrite it at will when you have time and inspiration. You may also want to check talk page. I also cut French Baroque into a separate article and will add Dutch Baroque and Spanish Baroque after today's football match. Good luck to you and to your team, Ghirla 06:26, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Featured articles

Going by your success in raising Buckingham Palace to featured article standard, I'd appreciate guidance on 2 questions:

• Where are the guidelines for featured articles, esp. length and province of introduction, etc.? I have found some advice on wikipedia but can you give me the full monty on this?
• How does an article become featured? Do you need to submit it as such or does Misplaced Pages sweep around looking at them, etc.? Do you have to propose it in a certain class to which it might pertain? etc. Any advice on this welcomed.

Thanks. -- FClef 20:00, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Well there are lots of theories on how to write the perfect FA, but first of all read this . Some people find this usefull too others have passed an opinion here . Whatever - having followed all the wise advice and written what you think is the perfect page then you can (only if you want to) get some improving ideas from your peers here (I seldom bother). Having done all of that one lists the page here and then I always say a few times "Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, ora pro nobis peccatoribus, nunc, et in hora mortis nostrae. Amen. " while flogging myself with a small whip - it seldom fails. Giano | talk 20:44, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for helpful suggestions and for making me laugh into my cocoa before bedtime! Would you please take a look at Trooping the Colour and give any opinion on its discussion page. I did not originate the article, but have made many material contributions and major edits to it. I hope it could be a London Portal article next June but do not know how to arrange that. -- FClef 23:24, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Baden-Powell House on WP:FAC

The Baden-Powell House article has been adjusted in compliance with your feedback and recommendations (highly appreciated). Would you care to adjust your opinion accordingly? Wim van Dorst (Talk) 22:39, 4 July 2006 (UTC).

• Hi Giano, the additions to the B-P House article are very useful. They follow exactly the lead I was working on, to add more building information. I'll do some editing, and include the architect as well, Ralph Tubbs, and therefore I'll copy-edit the wording 'lesser architect'. Important question, though: do you have a good reference for the comparison that you make between BPHouse and the other two buildings you mention? Wim van Dorst (Talk) 21:13, 5 July 2006 (UTC).

scouts

Seems to have been dealt with the right way before I got to it. Thanks anyway. Tony 02:10, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Architecture of Aylesbury

So what does this article need to be completed then? -- Francs2000 File:Flag of Buckinghamshire.png 08:35, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

About two hours, 500 references and inline cites and some entheusiasm! I've not forgotten it, I have several of similar size on the go at once, then every now and agian I surprise myself and finish one! Giano | talk 08:38, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Inline cite and editing reversals

Thanks for helpful comment on my Trooping the Colour edit. Please can you leave message here showing me 1. How to REVERSE an edit? (so that I don't have to type tons) 2. How to make an inline cite, as you suggested, of my T the C program -- FClef 12:52, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

It is conventional to add new sections at the bottom of a talk page, not the top. I have moved them for you.

To reverse an edit, the easiest thing to do is open an old version of the page from the page history, and then save it; or you could cut and paste the parts that you want to restore from an old version into the current version. Otherwise, you will need to retype.

Inline citations can be done in many ways - the easiest is to add a Harvard citation, like this: (Smith, 2006) or this : (Jones, p.26). See WP:CITE. -- ALoan (Talk) 13:48, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Signatures and references incorporating Talk page

I know about the 4 tildes for a signature, but is there a quick way of doing a signature such as yours which incorporates the "talk" option? Also is there a way of referencing an article's "talk" page so people can click on it and go there directly?

And finally, what is that little arrow that takes you directly to a page? (looks like an arrow in an envelope?) Che? (as Manuel used to say in Fawlty Towers) - How do you do it? -- FClef 12:52, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Your user page is at ] (User:FClef); your user talk page is at ] (User talk:FClef). Similarly, Baden-Powell House has a talk page at Talk:Baden-Powell House.

To get a reference to your talk page in your signature, you will need to edit your preferences. See WP:SIG and WP:SIGHELP.

I think that arrow just denotes a link (you are probably using the monobook skin, where I think it is standard. I use the classic skin and don't see it - links are just red or blue. Again, I think you can change this in your preferences.) -- ALoan (Talk) 13:48, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

I believe the arrow in question is the external link icon, perhaps? You automatically get those when linking an external site, as opposed to a wiki page. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 14:50, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Oh yes - in classic, they are just a different shade of moody ablue. -- ALoan (Talk) 14:59, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Trooping the Colour

Yes, I can see where you are coming from on everything you've said. You will be covered with relief to know that I didn't write the "incident" para with which the article ends. Nor did I write the introduction.

I have done alot of work in cleaning up the middle of the article. I inserted the bullet points to clarify the article, which, though informed, was muddy.

Regarding the uniforms, these are dealt with on the appropriate regimental pages of the Foot Guards companies, but I could put in a bit more. I have not yet inserted any pix and am something of a technophobe.

In all, thanks, but probably I have not the time to dedicate for all the work required to get it to FA standard. Would you like to shine some of your sunny beams to the article? (I imagine you don't have time either...)

By the way, and a propos of nothing in particular, I saw the new Tom Stoppard play, Rock and Roll, last night. It deals with events in Czechoslovakia 1968-1990, Marxism, and Ancient Greek poetry and myth (Reminiscent in some ways of Brian Friel's "Translations"), along with the contextual rock music, from Bob Dylan, through the Rolling Stones, Plastic People of the Universe (groundbreaking 70s Czech band), Pink Floyd (with and without Syd Barrett), and Guns and Roses. Great. -- FClef 12:52, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

I have not read the article, but bullet points often help with a list; however, they seldom make prose better. I will give the article a copyedit if I have time, but please don't give up: you may like to get a peer review and then nominate it as a Good article. -- ALoan (Talk) 13:48, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

YES, they did it. Congratulations! Wim van Dorst (Talk) 20:42, 9 July 2006 (UTC).

• 
• File:Barzagli.jpg
• File:Moddo.jpg
• File:ADpiero.jpg
• 
• File:De rossi.jpeg
• File:Materazzi.jpg
• 
• File:Buffongigi.jpg
• File:ToniGol06.jpg
• File:Inzaghi.jpeg
• File:Gianluca-Zambrotta.jpg
• File:Gilardino.jpg
• File:FTotti.jpg
• File:Barone.jpg
• File:Fabcannavaro.jpg
• File:Camoranesi1.jpg

Fratelli d'Italia

L'Italia s'è desta

Dell'elmo di Scipio

S'è cinta la testa.

Dove'è la Vittoria?.

Le porga la chioma;

Chè schiava di Roma

Iddio la creò.

Stringiamoci a coorte,

Siam pronti alla morte:

Italia chiamò!

Thank you ALoan! Yes it is a catchy little number, and I shall be belting it out on Sunday!

CHORUS:

Let us join in cohort,

We are ready to die!

We are ready to die!

Italy has called!

Let us join in cohort,

We are ready to die!

We are ready to die!

Italy has called! (and I am going!)

Sì!"

You can all sing along with me for the weekend here just click on "ascolta l'inno" (3rd from top is best!)

Please sign the visitors book below, if you wish to share in the glorious victory

• ;-) Paul August ☎ 02:30, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

I hope you enjoyed the game as much as I did. (Amusing anecodte: I was 2 weeks old when Italy won in '82. My father threw me up into the air repeatedly, with my grandmother screaming about how he was going to kill me. After their win yesterday, I grabbed him under the shoulders and threw him up in the air a few times :) Raul654 07:53, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Song of Cavaradossi from Tosca

Aw! Puts me in mind of my holiday in Rome-Spoleto-Florence-Venice in '04. Perhaps I could remind you of the song Puccini gives Cavaradossi in Act 2 of Tosca, in which Cav rejoices at the Marengo battle result, thus spilling the beans about his collaboration with the French? (Probably only the first 5 lines are singable as a football chant, turned back towards France of course)

Vittoria! Vittoria!! L'alba vindice appar che fa gli empi tremar! Libertà sorge, crollan tirannidi!

TOSCA (wittering away) Mario, taci, pietà di me! (etc.) (Simultaneous singing begins)

CAVARADOSSI Del sofferto martir (SCARPIA - venomously: Braveggia!, etc.) me vedrai qui gioir; etc. etc.

Sono con voi.

-- FClef 22:30, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Very moving, thank you. I shall be back on Monday with the trophy!Giano | talk 08:24, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

"Oh well done! I commend your pains, / And everyone shall share in the gains" (Hecate, congratulating the witches halfway through Macbeth). Great stuff. -- FClef (Talk) 20:21, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Alessio Tramello

It was an exciting game!!

As per the title above, I'm hoping that you, or someone you know, might be interested in expanding/improving the above referenced article on an architect. I have noticed some of your edits and took a chance on posting here. (I was trying to save the original one sentence stub from the trash bin and got interested but do not have the background to pursue much further). If not, that's fine as well. No reply necessary; I will watch for awhile, anyway. Cheers! Stormbay 01:40, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

History of Sicily

Have you seen that this week's WP:COTW is History of Sicily? I have added a discreet link to Sicilian Baroque. -- ALoan (Talk) 09:47, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

• Thank you ALoan, I hadn't seen that in fact I tend to avoid Sicilian pages as they make me bad tempered when people edit them, and pontificate on a subject about which they generally know nothing. So on the basis of "If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly do not submit it." - I don't. Sic Bar was the exception to my rule because there are not too many other editors about in the Baroque architecture department. I'm sure though History of Sicily will be a fascinating read about a beautiful race. Giano | talk 17:47, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough. But how about Bencher, which may interest you professionally? Or Fontanellato, with its delightful Parmesan rocca? -- ALoan (Talk) 11:10, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Sadly, I'm too busy in the real world to concentrarsi on anything serious here at the moment. I just click the computer over for a little light relief with a cup of coffee once or twice a day. Bencher looks very dull, and Fontanellato doesn't grab me either - never even been there. No at the moment all I can do is the odd edit (when necessary to preserve my good reputation!) and look after pages that interest me from dumb edits. Anyway Parmesan sound more like BoG than me. I would hate to trespass in his territory. Giano | talk 16:51, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Apparently I do tobacco now. The Swisher Sweets article is atrocious, you know. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 16:57, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Yeeook! Who on earth would smoke those? I'll stck to my Marlboro lites. What is happening to this place? Giano | talk 17:01, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

• Oh yes, and here is a sad eit I 've spotted I must compose one of my poems for his page, he was always so admiring of my works being poetical himself. I don't think it lacks modesty to say that some of my poems were probably the inspiration for his. I feel an ode coming over me now! Giano | talk 17:06, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Shining example

Hi Giano

Having complained about the article provided at Misplaced Pages:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Assessment as the ideal FA-class article—a most unsatisfactory piece, Medal of Honor—they invited me to suggest a replacement. I mentioned Sanssouci, but alas, one of them complained about the referencing (I don't really understand, since I'm not up-to-date on referencing procedures). Do you have another suggestion, or do you want to alter the referencing? (It would be lovely to have Sanssouci recognised in this way.)

See the discussion at:

Wikipedia_talk:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team/Assessment#The example chosen of the ideal FA-class article

Tony 11:09, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

• Very flattering thank you but I was only one of a team of copy editors, and added some further facts and information not on the original German version. I've never understood all this formatting of references, I just write and cite my sources when I think they are required. If someone wants to fix the references up in another way that's fine by me (ALoan is probably the man). Sadly though in my experience once a page becomes "wiki-famous" it seems to become a target for everyone to rip it to pieces, so I don't think I will disclose my favourite and (IMO) best page. Giano | talk 17:35, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

IG Farben Building FAC

Hello, I posted the IG Farben Building on the FAC on the 17th July. It's currently got a support consensus, but only from 4 people. I'd be more comfortable with a stronger consensus and was wondering if you might be prepared to comment on the article? Many thanks. --Mcginnly 11:03, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

• Many thanks for your support. --Mcginnly | Natter 03:38, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

Talk: Buckingham Palace

I have made substantial additions to the History section, with concomitant additions to Footnotes and References.

I do hope that you like the material, which mostly deals with the early history of the site. -- FClef (Talk) 23:55, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

• Amazing! Giano | talk 22:08, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks (blush) - I've had those in mind for a couple of months, but just worked up the energy to synthesise it all over the last couple of days. I do recommend both the new books to you.FClef (Talk) 00:19, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I think not!

I no longer wish to be in the company of an idiot (Fred) who can make such a ridiculous suggestion So I think I'll leave too. Giano | talk 22:31, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

It hasn't been accepted and passed. Take a break - and come back. KillerChihuahua 22:40, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

• Thanks Killer-sweety, but it's time to go and implode, before I'm pushed. Fred's a fool from Colorado (that's even worse than Idaho) who want's to shoot the witnesses, but there's too many other rural dolts like him here all having oozed and seeped into authority - and I'm far too short tempered, opinionated and outspoken to put up with them many further. It's all been a laugh though - so take care all of you. No one is to post any further daft and sentimental messages (Yes ALoan - that includes you, although I am still very sorry I put that telephone mast into your very informative obelisk page) and BoG hope the limp clears up soon! Geogre do be careful with that gun Oh and darling Bish - good luck with the hot page - it'll go to straight to FA. Anyone wanting my famous Sicilian recipe for home barbecued puffer fish straight from the sea - (always ensures a peaceful thanksgiving with the in-laws) - can apply in writing enclosing a cheque made payable to me at Palazzo Splendido in the Caymen Islands. As you all know I am not a spiteful or vindictive person - so don't give Fred a good kicking, and do be sure to give EE a warm welcome on her inevitable return. Oh and look after Sic Bar for me (it's the only one I care two cents about). Wetman you are the the cleverest man on the site so please look after the Italian architectural pages, and save them from the day-trippers. I can't even come back as a sock as you will all spot the commas and spelling - so this is really it. I can't write any more as I'm unable to see the keyboard for my soft and gentle tears plopping onto the keys - and the very dirty and worn comma key is smidging - farewell...............for the last time Giano | talk 23:59, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Oh Giano, come then! how could you ever have got into such a bind? Keeping bad company? An on-line encyclopedia "that anyone can edit" is in its very nature bound to be a constant compromise with medicrity. Your own attention-span is three times as long as the average coxcomb's: just work productively elsewhere, and come back in a few months to articles that have been slathered with humbug, comparing current versions with your last version, and tidy up after the puppies... --Wetman 00:17, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Look Giano, I don't think you can leave, until Italy defeats us Yanks in footsie. Paul August ☎ 04:10, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Now it's time for me to address those lines you left on my talk page: "I leave this site for five fucking minutes, and what do I return to? - Shock!" Please don't take arbitrators' antics too seriously and check your mail more often. --Ghirla 12:53, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

• Ghirla please don't resort to bad language - it displays a lack of vocabulary (personally I never swear) and Paul for the 100th time it is footie not footsie! Of course as usual Wetman is quite right, I must return - I can't wait months as he suggests - who knows in months we could all be dead or worse - so here I am. One can't allow retired lawyers from Colorado to get one down - however democratically elected and ill informed they may seem to be - perhaps in real life he is a famous politician - he certainly has the attributes. For a while though I think I shall give wikipedia less attention. It's becoming horribly like the real world. Giano | talk 22:19, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

1. Quote by Eternal here From when I was trying not to be too rude!

BTW, I, too, believe FB is starting to "show his age" while making arbitration decisions - I've had to correct many spelling/grammar errors as well as missed votes on things he authored. And believe it or not, he is 64 this year - which makes me wonder how much longer he wants to serve after his current term ends next year... Editor88 01:16, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

• I don't think 64 is always too old, quite a lot of people manange to lead fairly active lives at 64, in fact thinking about it I'm nearer 64 then 18 myself. However, Fred does neet seem to have grasped the simple mechanics of this case, a carried out a thorough alalysis. Giano | talk 06:35, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

You go, guy!

Excellent work, Giano! (or should that be "ingenio?") I rest yours sincerely FClef (but you can call me "Elizabeth") -- FClef (Talk) 20:11, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Eternal Equivox

Don't let it bother you; with that level of vociferous support I'd be extremely surprised if anything came of it for either you or the others. Stepping back from it, I think old Fred Dibnah is trying to demonstrate what an even hand he has, by making all parties (EE anyway) feel that the enquiry isn't a fait accomplis at this stage. Motions for a vote of no-confidence are probably ill-advised at this stage when nothing has actually been determined, it will only serve to antagonise an Arbcom who probably believes he is acting in good faith. It just means you'll all have to just swallow your pride a bit at the affront of the Proposed Remedies. You shouldn't have to, but there you are......if it really pisses you off - get a steam engine:- "Steam engines don't answer back. You can belt them with a hammer and they say nowt." --Mcginnly | Natter 22:42, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your note on my talk page. I thought the "proposed remedy" was inappropriate and therefore expressed my view even though I'm a relative newcomer here and have no reason to get involved in other people's arbitration cases (and never plan to be a part of one myself!). That being said, my strong advice is that you limit any future comments on the arbitration to responding to specific evidence, etc. if any is added, and let other people raise any institutional issues that need to be raised. I agree that a proposal for a "vote of no confidence in one of the arbitrators" is not going to be viewed as a dispassionate evaluation of the proceedings when it's offered by a participant in a pending case, however unwarranted. Plus I don't share a uniformly negative view of this particular arbitrator, though IMHO he missed the boat in this particular instance. Regards, Newyorkbrad 00:09, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Barbara Cartlandiana

Thanks for the thanks. Whenever you feel less alienated, please consider taking a look at Cound hall and its deletion discussion (where I have added a couple of relevant links). The nominator was upset with me comparing this house favourably to an ugly concrete platform in Glasgow (it turned out that he had actually photographed the platform in question). Tupsharru 09:17, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Winslow Hall

Go to the History tab, and click on View logs for this page. You'll see the following:

14:27, 20 February 2006 Quadell (Talk | contribs) deleted "Winslow Hall" (Listed on WP:CV since September).

I'm afraid the article is completely lost now, and can't be restored.

Please don't remove Speedy tags - that's considered vandalism. If you don't agree, add a hangon tag, as suggested by the Speedy tag itself.--MichaelMaggs 21:42, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I'll do what the hell I like if someone dares to delete one of my pages. Giano | talk 21:47, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I've restored the page -- please remove the copyvio notice yourself and leave a short explanation regarding your original authorship on the talk page, if you would? —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:51, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Who but me writes in that style? Giano | talk 21:52, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I have no doubt. I just want to make sure others coming along can have some idea of what happened there. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:53, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I am very grateful to you for restoring the page which I wrote in my earliest days here. It seems odd that people can say something is copyvio without naming where they claim it is from. Especially as so many sites are now merely mirroring wikipedia, perhaps the admins so keen to delete should check these things first instance. Is there no training for these people? Anyhow, thanks for your help Giano | talk 22:12, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I think the process goes something like this: one person says J'accuse, copyvio! and someone else is meant to say nonono, I wrote it! (or challenge the first person to trial by combat, if preferred). If no-one speaks up to deny the possible copyvio, the article is deleted. That article was listed as a possible copyvio for about 5 months! You should see WP:PROD - articles can be deleted almost automatically after 5 days if no-one objects. Fortunately, deleted articles are rarely irrecoverable - remember that there are plenty of friendly admins out there, with the mop and shiny buttons not accessible to mere mortals, and everything. -- ALoan (Talk)

Of course, who can blame Giano for becoming more aggravated than the reality of the situation merited, when he was getting great data like "I'm afraid the article is completely lost now, and can't be restored". —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 23:18, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Oh, quite. And the Cound Hall AFD debacle. -- ALoan (Talk) 23:26, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Wow! I hadn't seen. Who knew Tups could come out with such a swinging roundhouse of a personal attack? I mean, mentioning Jordanhill railway station, man he is lucky I don't step right over there and ban him for two consecutive life terms. And you Giano! Suggesting a Google search or something?! If you weren't already being hung out to dry I would show you something else. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 02:21, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

• I did not suggest anything as mundane as a google search, a quick flick through his Pevsner would have given him all the information he needed instantly, obviously couldn't be bothered to walk as far as his bookcase! Giano | talk 06:51, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Well for jeeper's sake, they are both just halls! What's so darn important about a hall? I've got a couple of halls in my house too, complete with a hall tree and a hall closet. Paul August ☎ 03:18, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

• What the hell is a hall tree? sounds like some sort of bourgeois foliage, I suggest you throw it out immediately and replace it with a receptacle for holy water which is what I have in my hall. Which keeps one safe and sound when leaving the hous. I'm going to put another over the computer. Giano | talk 06:41, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps a hall tree is some sort of hatstand? -- ALoan (Talk) 09:37, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

I expect it's something very American and very unpleasant indeed, rathet like a bidet possibly? Giano | talk 12:37, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi Giano. Glad to see that an Adminstrator was able to undelete the article for you. I stand corrected!--MichaelMaggs 05:54, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Removal of "needs infobox"

I think you may be misinterpreting the "needs infobox" section of the "needs-infobox" parameter of the BioWikiProject template, which you commented on here. The goal is to have an infobox for each person with a biography greater than a glorified stub. By the way, if you have a problem with the way the infobox is formatted, you may wish to join that WikiProject and see if you can effect a change, instead of calling their product "ugly." Captainktainer * Talk 07:23, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Surely this is not yet again the same debate we had here .Over the last year I, and many other editors, have made our feelings fully known on this subject in many places including here - is this the same info box you are talking about?, because if it is, I have seen it called a great many worse things than ugly Giano | talk 07:34, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages is like a herd of goldfish - little or no collective long-term memory. Why must every article be forced into the same little pigeonhole? -- ALoan (Talk) 09:39, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

The "goal" may "be" (passive constructions should be avoided) to stick a box on every biography, but that goal is not endorsed, approved, or even tolerated by a sizeable segment of the Misplaced Pages population. There is no inherent virtue to having a box that outweighs not having a box. There is no inherent value to a template, a box, a chart, a map, or any other graphical element. These things must never be confused with content, especially as they derive their content from the text. Those who write the text have some priority over those who add the illustrations, and it's no surprise that they feel like the hosts that infoboxes are parasites upon. The basic rule is not to apply an infobox without talk page consensus. If there is no consensus (not if there fails to be a consensus against it), don't put it on. Geogre 11:33, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

I know I'm in the middle of a bad run with Wikipeia at the moment, and probably seeing things with jaundiced eyes, but it seems to me but the longer I'm here the more the place becomes an inner collection of clubs made up of people who "don't" imposing new rules, regulations, and codes of conduct on those that "do". Am I alone in getting tired of fighting the same battles every three months. Giano | talk 12:46, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

• PS: BTW it's a "shoal" of goldfish ALoan - one has to learn these collective nouns by heart when learning English as a foreigner! Giano | talk 12:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

On Misplaced Pages, it is definitely a herd of stampeding goldfish. Trust me.

The best antidotes I have found to wikipolitics and the wikifiddlers are either taking a break, or getting stuck in and doing some doing. Have a calming walk through the Jardin des Plantes or along the terrace at the Château de Saint-Germain-en-Laye. -- ALoan (Talk) 13:08, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Been on holiday then ALoan? Giano | talk 13:29, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

I know what you're talking about, Giano, obviously, but there's nothing wrong with the people who aren't "doers." I think that there is a rage for order that can result in microscopic obsessions and manias. Some people come here already with such (q.v. the language warriors, the nationality purifiers, the race clarifiers, etc.), but most people genuinely care about their pets, so I don't think we're going to help anything by deprecating them. Most of the people who add boxes believe that they help, and it's not for anyone else to tell them that they're wrong. I hope we can establish, though, a procedure that will keep people from tromping off to war again and again over these matters. If we need to open a content RfC to find the ways graphical elements and summaries can be added when helpful without taking priority, then let's do it. I mistrust anyone who invokes "always" (e.g. "all schools are notable" or "all schools are not" or "all bioboxes should be added" or "no plot summary boxes should be added," or any other "all"s). Geogre 13:58, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

I have an illuminating story to add here. I don't write biographies. And I don't really have a feel for how they should best be organized, a problem I've had in working on the one bio article I've tried my hand at. Yesterday I saw a "Welcome to the biography Wikiproject" template message get slapped down on a user talkpage I was watching. It included this bullet point:

• Starting some new articles? Our article structure tips outlines some things to include.

Well! Article structure tips! Sounds good! I present for your nauseation the tips:

1. Create a new page. (See m:Help:Starting a new page for details.)
2. Create an outline for the biography article you started:
   • Add {{subst:Biography}} into your article page and save. (See m:Help:Template for details.)
3. Add the appropriate infobox
4. Add the appropriate categories
5. Add the Misplaced Pages:Persondata's persondata template
6. Add it to the List of people

$%#&! —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 14:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

I am quite capable of taking Geogre's hint so my lips are zipped, sealed, and glued together. I've always beleived if one can't say anything nice then best say nothing at all! Therefore BoG I can make no comment on what looks to me like some very good, helpful and wise advice. I'm thinking of getting some of those little boxes for my own page actually - the sort that tell people "A bad tempered bastard lives here", "This user would like to be a concert pianist but can only play the first 5 bars of the moon light" and "This user is not gay, but strongly suspects his neighbour may be" all those sort of useful things I see on other people's pages, so from now on I'm going to make more of an effort to be nice, kind and conforming. So if you'll excuse me I shall take myself off to the RFA page to vote "support" for todays batch of another 400 admins no one has ever heard off. Good afternoon everyone! Giano | talk 15:26, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Mmm - my tips for a biography: find someone you want to write about, find some sources, and write. Works a treat. Ideally plagiarise derive substiantial support from a recently-published obituary or two, or plagiarise translate something from French or German (using Google or babelfish if necessary, although machine translations often need translating from machine English). As long as there is some content, a wikignome will slap categories and correct the stub templates and so on, and disambiguate your infelicitous links to the wrong article or redlinks, for you. I have been looking back at my braglist today - I am surprised how many articles have not changed substantially but for the odd bit of wikifiddling here and there (like swapping "Normanby" - as in "Duke of Buckingham and" -for "Normandy"). For example, of the former, John Vinelott, Anthony Marreco, Carol Mather, June Lloyd, Baroness Lloyd of Highbury; of the latter, Odoardo Beccari, Jean-Baptiste Oudry. Not highly polished gems, perhaps, but probably the best free online biography of any of them. -- ALoan (Talk) 16:14, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Actually, Beccari is a case in point here: the first line says "Odoardo Beccari (16 November 1843 – 25 October 1920)" and blow me down, almost exactly the same information is in the bloody infobox with his photo (like Giano in his youth, I am sure). WHY? -- ALoan (Talk) 16:18, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

• Rather like me now actually ALoan! (apart from the fact he is cross eyed and has a moustache) Yes I know what you mean, verty few of my efforts have changed substantially either, except BP which is the only one I've ever done on a popular subject, which just goes to prove it is less stressful to write on obscure matters - I shall shortly be doing an in depth and exploratory biography of Ivor Boozy-Luncheon, the well known architect famous for his small errections and, of course, "Dunromin", 14 Hight Street Preston Plucknett. Giano | talk 18:42, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

• Oh yeah and I sorted poor Odoardo, no don't worry Geogre I left a perfectly reasonable explanation on his talk page. Giano | talk 18:53, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Recovering are we?

Uhmm, some of the above seems dangerously close to your having a sense of humour again Giano, of course much of it is just sarcasm, which isn't quite the same thing. Nevertheless I see reasons to hope for a full recovery. I may have to think about reverting this edit someday. Perhaps when the next World Cup thingie comes around again, and you get a chance to tie us in foosball again, will that will improve your humour? Paul August ☎ 20:00, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

I think not I would rather play "footsie" note the "S" and not with you - nothing personal you understand, I just like a shaven leg for that particular game! I am fully recovered thank you very much, in fact I was just recovering over on "the whatever it is called EE workshop page", one thing I can't abide is slackers! - You know the sort of people who wear bath robes downstairs afer 7.30 in the morning. Giano | talk 20:06, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Architectural history

Hello. I've noticed some joyless gnome has tagged Architectural history as needing 'cleanup' (Whatever that means). It is a pretty poor article which I'm going to tinker with. To start, I've added some references of books I possess - unfortunately my book shelf is sagging under the weight of modern architecture material but nearly devoid of architectural history books before circa 1850. ('Architectural history' at University, all those years ago, zoomed through 7000 years of history in 2 weeks and then spent the next 5 years discussing everything from William Morris onwards). Could you recommend any good books that give good concise overviews? PS. I already have Deitsch, Deborah K (15 Jul 2002) Architecture for Dummies, Hungry Minds Inc, U.S., ISBN 0764553968. --Mcginnly | Natter 12:37, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

The very title of that book inspires an auto-da-fé. Try abebooks for Pevsner's Outline of European Architecture: not the greatest, but available in profusion and at a silly low price. Watkin's History of Western Architecture is well regarded but I don't know it. And now, an intelligent answer from Giano..... Hoary 14:00, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Many thanks to you both. I've heard of Watkin's book too. By an amazingly serendipitous coincidence I actually bought World Architecture 2 weeks ago for £5 from Oxfam - It was still in the back of the car (forgotten about along with 'Visions of Britain' by Prince Charlie haha) - I didn't recognise it at first from Giano's description because the cover says 'Hitchcock, Henry Russell, Bookplan' but low and behold - inside Coppleston, Trewin (ed) - brilliant! thanks!--Mcginnly | Natter 21:49, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

• No wonder there a millions still starving if Oxfam only charges £5 for such a fantastic book - I hope you feel honour bound to send them a further £50 when you have read it! Giano | talk 21:56, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

• Actually, the really bitter pill is that 'Visions of Britain' was £5.50.--Mcginnly | Natter 22:08, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

• It's odd isn't it that a man who can afford and enjoys the real thing wants all his future subjects housed in a twee pastiche - perhaps he had a disfunctional upbringing Giano | talk 22:15, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

• • Not so odd, but certainly worrying. His 'Vision of Britain' is a twee pastiche - (I can't help but suspect the twee utopianism extends beyond architecture into all walks of modern life -- with adultery and divorce the notable, convenient exceptions). The feeling that comes over is that messy, chaotic, multi-cultural britain is all a bit of an eyesore from where he looks out from his estates. Perhaps he might consider funding the housing shortage.......--Mcginnly | Natter 23:36, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

• Ah but he has, I don't know why, but it would give me huge pleasure to see its inhabitants rioting, overturning police cars and covering the place with graffiti - just me being perverse I suppose! Giano | talk 06:21, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Boxes and templars

Ok, folks, tell me what's wrong with boxes and templates. I've begun writing up my idears. Geogre 14:08, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Duca di Lante?

Giano, at Villa Lante you—well, I guess it was you— wrote that the villa didn't come by that name until it was sold to the Duke of Lante in the C17. Are you sure that's right, I ask, not having an Almanach at hand. Duca di Lante? --Wetman 12:07, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

The first duke in this family, if I recall correctly, was Ippolito Lante Montefeltro della Rovere, who was created Duca di Bomarzo in 1646. See here for details. --Ghirla 14:17, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I can't find where I got that from certainly not my English books which I have with me here, perhaps it was one of my Italian ones which are in Sic, - Duke OF Lante was probably my Anglification of "Duke Ippolito Lante", I'm a lot more wised up on English titles than I was then! (the problem has arisen because we/I did not cite our refs so often in this far off days when I wrote that!) however I have found the following . This site here http://www.primitaly.it/lazio/viterbo/bagnaia/uk.htm] endorses the late naming of the villa as Lante (but it is only a tourist page, not the best ref in any nationality. I will dig about and see what else I can find - in the meantime change it - if you think it may not be correct - but I don't think it would have been called Lante if it was not owned by the Lante. I will ref and cite what comes from my English books later this evening or tomorrow. Giano | talk 20:32, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Giano's change solves the issue: "...sold to Ippolito Lante Montefeltro della Rovere, Duke of Bomarzo..." Ghirla's apposite genealogy link seems to show that, in the family Lante Montefeltro della Rovere, a title Duca Lante della Rovere, was indeed created, for Don Filippo (1800-1881), Principe di Cantalupo, etc. (A Kingdom of Italy coinage, imitating Earl Spencer, Earl Temple etc?) The earlier, and familiar, ducal title was indeed duca di Bomarzo. --Wetman 06:27, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I do have my uses, but.......was it sold or did it pass? Answers please Giano | talk 20:49, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Those confusing romance languages

sorted out at last! (This cognointellectual leap is explained in the edit summary.) -- Hoary 09:40, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

• Sorry you have lost me, is it some form of new sexual position like 69 and 42? Giano | talk 22:30, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

• would you please explain what happens in 42? The 4 I can hack, but the 2 seems fraught with risk.--FClef (talk) 01:29, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
• Yes, dos-à-dos does sound rather stiffupperlippily British. As for an explanation of the dread "42", do remember that this page may be read by ladies, children, and lapdogs. -- Hoary 02:31, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

archINFORM

Giano, are you familiar with the archINFORM online database? There is a stub on it that is now nominated for deletion per WP:WEB (too low Alexa rank). The article itself is actually a rather pointless stub; I have tried to argue that the topic is worth an article (in analogy with academic publications), but people just keep dropping by with "delete per nom" votes. (I could have spent the time I have used on that AFD actually improving the article but I'm sick of it now.) Tupsharru 05:31, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

ArchINFORM

I would like to make several points:

• I did not revert you. I edited the page without viewing the page history.
• My edits were merely to a)remove unsourced and slightly boastful content ("The most complete global online-database concerning architecture", "It forms an important record of the architecture of the 20th century") and b)remove unimportant or generalized content("The database which can be used by anyone registered, has a search engine which allows a particular project to be found by listing just architect, location or key word"). In short, standard cleanup.
• Using language such as "rather stupid person" is a serious breach of Misplaced Pages:No personal attacks and Misplaced Pages:Civility.

Deltabeignet 02:38, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

• Removing an entire paragraph written by me with the words "cut biased and/or useless context" justifies my attitude towards you. Pease note: I do not write biased or useless information. Finally, do not quote "Misplaced Pages:Civility" etc. to me. I suggest you read such advice yourself, and absorb some of the information found there Thank you. Giano | talk 06:29, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
• I fail to see how your remark could be justified; "There is no excuse for personal attacks on other contributors". I do deeply regret my phrasing and apologise for any offense. Deltabeignet 21:48, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

• Please stop quoting clever wikipedia pages at me, which are meant to show me in the wrong - as I never read such pages. Thank you for your appology - I forgive you. Giano | talk 21:54, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Meat

This user is made of meat.

Have you by any chance seen this? So, while I was watching P&J, you were communing with the Dashwoods? -- ALoan (Talk) 17:53, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

You've lost me ALoan Giano | talk 18:49, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

• What is all this with meat - I am very sensitive vegan, and I do not find this blood amusing. I find one lettuce leaf and a small nut alternated with a lentil quite sufficient for my needs. Giano | talk 19:42, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Disconnected

In case you've e-mailed today I won't see it for a while, please see post on Geogre's page. Bishonen | talk 20:58, 14 August 2006 (UTC).

Signpost updated for August 14th

You are receiving this message because you have signed up for the Signpost spamlist. If you wish to stop receiving these messages, simply remove your name from the list. Ralbot 06:06, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Palladian architecture

Thanks for your notice, but I'm well aware of the problem. I have several large articles on my hands, written months ago, such as Russian Revival and Russian Enlightenment, which I lack time to post, and I also prepare the article about Architecture of Kievan Rus, which is as far from Palladianism as possible and looks pretty idiotic in its present form. And Baroque architecture lacks passages about Central and Eastern Europe. I'm also getting involved in Russian Misplaced Pages and it doesn't help to accelerate my progress, either. I will take a vacation next week and read up on the subject. Cheers, Ghirla 13:44, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Well at least you are still here - which is good. Giano | talk 19:43, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Arbitration

Thanks for your note. See also the ongoing discussion on the case's workshop page. I continue to find the idea of a one-month (or one-minute) ban for your comment absurd. But you would need to lose at least two more votes for that to happen so you probably won't get your holiday after all. Regards, Newyorkbrad 20:39, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

To whom it may concern

I would like it known I consider the discussions taking place here and here to be not only excruciatingly embarrassing for wikipedia, but ridiculous in the extreme but I am sincerely grateful to the many who have pleaded my case and passed comment. However, I would like us all to take a step back, and think "Why are we, a group of intelligent adults, arguing about the rights and wrongs of recommending fugu to a disruptive editor who happens to be in Japan" - it's all just a little daft isn't it? So lets not waste any more time on it. It will all come to nothing.

The positive outcome though of this, is that it has highlighted my concerns about the logic and intellect that is applied in the upper echelons of Misplaced Pages. Too many mediocre, lacklustre people are allowed to become admins and climb the ladder, as a result the management team is not impressive, and in my opinion some serious hiring and firing needs to take place. At the moment there are too many bad eggs in this omelette, someone at the top needs to be ruthless and singly focused - and that is what is lacking here. Quality management will attract quality editors. The kids are taking over the kindergarten, and there is too much dithering and discussion to stop them. I shan't leave over all this, but it will be a long time before I feel the same way about the project again - but thanks to you all. Giano | talk 07:13, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Ah Giano, some resist becoming editors at all, and it isn't purely snobbism! --Wetman 09:39, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

I concur that some Misplaced Pages contributors deserve better admins and arbitrators, as I expressed this point of view many times. At least arbitrators are not elected for life, as admins seemingly are. It was the community that elected these arbitrators and we have to live with this until the next election. I was shocked how lightly these guys think of their duties though, just check the MP3 discussion of English Arbcom here. --Ghirla 13:57, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

• For the benefit of those of you following this unseemly debacle please note: I shall never speak to the Arb-com privately. You can all rest assured on that, I promise! Giano | talk 18:46, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

• G'como. Seriously. Please take some deep breaths. I thought you spoke inappropriately here. :-( Bishonen | talk 19:33, 17 August 2006 (UTC).

• Sorry dearest, the man is incapable of answering a simple question. A question incidentally he first referred to himself. Does he think I should apologise to EE? Is that so difficult a question. Then having conducted the discussion in open and public forum , he suggests a private message to the judges. Darling, people have fought revolutions and died to avoid that sort of comment - My whole life is based on the open court system - I spoke inappropriately? The appropriate thing would have been delivered far faster and with a clenched fist - so he had the wiki-equivalent. I regret nothing Giano | talk 20:40, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Geez G - there we were having a nice quiet conversation behind your back, and there you roll in, all guns a blazin.......Can't you leave us to talk about you in peace!--Mcginnly | Natter 20:52, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

• Not my style McG, did you ever here about the kid who always had to stick his finger in the hornet's nest? - well you just met him ;-)Giano | talk 20:56, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Then Giano, wonders why he sometimes gets stung! Paul August ☎ 20:59, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

License tagging for Image:Dashwoods of West Wycombe.gif

Thanks for uploading Image:Dashwoods of West Wycombe.gif. Misplaced Pages gets thousands of images uploaded every day, and in order to verify that the images can be legally used on Misplaced Pages, the source and copyright status must be indicated. Images need to have an image tag applied to the image description page indicating the copyright status of the image. This uniform and easy-to-understand method of indicating the license status allows potential re-users of the images to know what they are allowed to do with the images.

For more information on using images, see the following pages:

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This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. If you need help on selecting a tag to use, or in adding the tag to the image description, feel free to post a message at Misplaced Pages:Media copyright questions. 19:04, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

It wasn't untagged, it was typo-tagged and I just fixed it. — mark ✎ 19:26, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Sorry I am completely lost - what is the problem here? Giano | talk 21:29, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

There's no problem. Mark fixed a typo and made it all better; you had uploaded the file as ((PD-art}} rather than {{PD-art}} (opening parentheses rather than braces). —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 22:35, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

• Thank you BoG (and Mark) why doesn't someone just strangle (slowly) wikibot or whatever its daft name is, and have done with it? Giano | talk 22:38, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

You're welcome! As for Orphanbot, I find its messages a little threatening (see this new user's talk page, I think he may have left because of that), but I do think it does good work. It would be nicer of course if it also recognized typos like the one you made. — mark ✎ 07:00, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

O magnum mysterium - category deletion? Buckingham Palace

Dear Giano, Can you tear yourself away from weightier matters to shed any light on this? I reproduce below a note I have written to User:wub. Please leave me a msg here if you can explain what's gone on.

Re: Category:British Cultural Icons Hello, wub. I have contributed to both Buckingham Palace and Trooping the Colour. I see that on both of these you recently removed the Category:British cultural icons with AWB, citing CFD. Relatively new to Misplaced Pages, I confine my activities to writing and the odd merge, and was unaware of this. Can you tell me what has happened to this popular and useful category? Has it been deleted? Or has it been merged? What has happened to the many articles which were under this category?

I will watchlist this page and check back here for an answer or would be grateful to hear from you on User talk:FClef

I am copying this note to the Help Desk and to a couple of Wikifriends more experienced than I, to see if they know what the fate of this category is. Best wishes. -- FClef (talk) 20:10, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, Giano . -- FClef (talk) 20:20, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't know tha answer I am afraid. I would immagine the category went through the normal deletion process. To be honest I don't really like that sort of category, one man's icon, is another man's nightmare - too much dependent on opinion rather than fact. Giano | talk 18:29, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Solved. Thanks, I see where you're coming from and indeed that seems to be the general tenor on the debate at . -- FClef (talk) 22:01, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

West Wycombe

Image:West WycombeRoomlayout.gif was bad. We are asked to: a) upload to the commons, b) use PNG or SVG rather than GIF. Don't dither - 256 colours should be enough for a line drawing providing your drawing program picks a sensible palette of solid colours. -- RHaworth 18:18, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for deleting the image. Regarding your advice I haven't the remotest idea what "we" are talking about, nor do I much care. *1* Giano | talk 18:41, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Some folks at Commons (commoners, in other words) want .png and .svg files instead of .gifs, which is their prerogative, and you're supposed to scan using a 256 color scale with "dithering" turned off. It should probably be a grayscale. Each project seems to end up spawning a group of regulars, and with some of the sister projects these spores develop into colonies. The commoners are bizarre to me. Imagine the most prickly and abstruse cat fighters and image wire-pullers on Misplaced Pages and then magnify them by four fold, as they have no consideration for the use of these things. They get to be purists. The fact that .gif is far better for grayscale and line art than .png is unimportant to them. They are the Commoners, and they are ruling. Use the image you want, so long as it's free, and upload just to .en, if they're going to want to delete an image for not being .png. Geogre 21:28, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

• What is confusing me Geogre (and I do so agree with you) is that the particular package that created that very clever picture, can be rotated to look anyway I wish, including inside out, and I intend to use it very widely indeed on architectural pages as soon as I have the complete drop of it (which may take some considerable time) and because I can rotate it any way I wish , acheived by forming shadows, this is acheived by dithering - stupid expression anyway -so I shall be dithering for some time to come, and in the very far future when I have the complete drop of it, I shall dither in some trees and things also - so there RHaworth! Giano | talk 21:48, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Dear Geogre, please don't blame us muleteers (de:Kärrnerarbeit) for our mules, those are prickly creatures which are very aware of their limitations and will refuse everything that goes beyond their power. GIF is particularly unsuited for photography; the 256 color limit translates in a hint more than six shades of red, green and blue each. Look at the sky near the horizon in Image:Belton._Belvedere.Giano.gif, where are not enough blue shades and at the trees on the left, where the dithering pattern is the size of the leaves. Dr Zak 04:23, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

• Yes, but at 300px it illustrates the article very well, and is far better than a lop sided print. So with my photography it is that or nothing. Giano | talk 06:45, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

*1* Nor do I much care reads as rude an arrogant, I hope you do not mean it that way. The GIF/PNG/SVG debate I do not care much about either. Dithering is a well established term which you ought to know about since it affected the quality of the image being discussed. The whole point of the Commons is that it enables a single upload to be shared by all the Wikimedia projects - remember that there are languages other than English. -- RHaworth 10:11, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

• Regarding rude and arrogant you appear to be in a class of your own. I upload images solely for the benefit of the pages I have written, where they do very well. If some other page are able to benefit then that is great, and I am pleased. However, I am not interested in computers and their machinations, I do not understand them, I do not want to understand them. Funnily enough I am aware of one or two other languages. Now why don't you make yourself useful and upload them to commons yourself, if that is your speciality interest.Giano | talk 10:19, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Unfinished

Hi Giano, I trust you are well. May I ask for a moment of your time? I've recently been working on the article unfinished work, progressing towards FA status at the moment. Some comments there say how the architecture section is woefully short, and needs some more work. While I was originally intending for the majority of such content to go into unfinished building, I accept that it would be worthwhile including some examples in this article. There are many buildings that have been partially constructed, but do you know of any prominent examples of unfinished architecture, ie. notable incomplete plans, designs, or the like? I'd appreciate any pointers you have on the issue. Thanks, violet/riga (t) 18:44, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

I shall have a think, the one's that immediatly spring to mind are Herrenchiemsee and Neuschwanstein, but I'm sure I can come up with some better ones, there is Goodwood House as well, I'm syure in half anb hour we can have hundreds Giano | talk 18:47, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks - they're good examples of unfinished constructions. Coincidentally I was just reading about Mad King Ludwig (Neuschwanstein is amazing!). It may be difficult, but do you have any notable examples of incomplete designs (ie. the building was never even started but the plans are famous nonetheless)? violet/riga (t) 18:56, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

• Well ther is Sir Christopher Wren's plan for London after the fire; was not built on the same plan for it on which Holkham Hall was based on an unused plan for Palladio’s Villa Mocenigo , but that's not a v good example because Mocenigo was eventually built but to a different plan (Wetman, if you are watching am I correct on that). Robert Adam designed many garden pavilions for Kedleston Hall which were never executed, I've some copies of their plans I could upload for you, but you really need something more famous, almost every notable architect has unexecuted plans, I'll have a hunt about in some books later this evening for a really famous one. Inigo Jones Palace of Whitehall was never built, but it was started. Giano | talk 19:22, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Her you are from our very own site

• Following this up wil probably solve a few problems too. Giano | talk 19:48, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

You're a star. I've been able to expand the section quite nicely now - thanks for your extremely speedy response. violet/riga (t) 20:39, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Roll back

Angel, are you sure you know what "using rollback" means? Just in case: Tony Sidaway didn't use rollback to remove the recall nomination on BoG's page. Lar did use rollback to revert Tony's removal. (In many people's estimation, this is equivalent to Lar calling Tony a vandal.) Bishonen | talk 21:09, 21 August 2006 (UTC).

I meant to use the "assume good faith" rollback, hope I remembered. I immediately went to Tony's talk page and talked it through, I think all is cool. I don't see him as a vandal per se... ++Lar: t/c 21:23, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Angel cake, I have not got a clue what rollback means (other than it's what one does to a carpet before a party) such antics are all part of BoG's page not mine - poor BoG, he would not be told. With the current thinking in high places, I wouldn't be surprised if they don't ban him for a month at least. I wonder if I can help in some small way? Giano | talk 21:54, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Condottieri

As an educated person who is a native speaker of Italian, Giano, what is the singular of condottieri, those Renaissance leaders of warbands? After deciding, you might look into the connected Talkpage. Do you have a definitive Italian dictionary at hand?--Wetman 23:47, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Voting

I'm canvassing votes for our mate in Cambridge at Charles Matthews Election Candidate. Perhaps you might like to make a contribution?--Mcginnly | Natter 10:38, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

• I'd rather vote for John Prescott as PM

Waddesdon Manor

Curious about your reasoning for removal of Waddesdon Manor from cat -- it seems to accord well with the definition of "Châteauesque" given in that article. --mervyn 07:37, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

• Waddesdon Manor is a faithful reproduction of a chateau designed by a Frenchman, there are no anomalies its design as a chateau, chateauesque houses are houses in the style of a chateau, often large 19th century houses which have one of two chateauesque type features such as a turret, or mansard roof, to give them the "air" of a chateau but without these features would be just normal houses for the location they are in. I thought long and hard before putting Waddesdon's close relation Halton House in the chateauesque category. and finally decided it that it is basically a Victorian Mansion with some French embellishments to give a chateau appearance. Waddesdon though is thoroughly a chateau, therefore not "chateauesque" as it has no concessions in external architecture to the architecture of its location or time. I hope this explains my view. Giano | talk 10:18, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Waddesdon Manor is not a "faithful reproduction", it is a mélange of Loire château elements, albeit a superbly executed one (complete with Victorian porte-cochère!). I would argue that if "Châteauesque" is the term that Misplaced Pages is using for the "neo-chateau" strand in Revival styles in 19th-century architecture, then the whole spectrum of victorian chateaux should be included, ranging from the high-status, least "debased" examples like Waddesdon Manor, down to the low-status, most debased examples of suburban turreted villas. Otherwise you need to define how a separation is made. Hope you follow? --mervyn 11:07, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

• No I don't follow. Waddesdon is a prime example of Neo-Renaissance architecture (where photographs of the manor are used to illustrate) rather than a bourgeois mongrel architectural style which is basically what chateauesque architecture is. However, your understanding of architecture is obviously far superior to mine so place Waddesdon in whichever category you feel most suitable. I am well aware that Waddesdon is a melange of authentic styles - I wrote the page. Giano | talk 11:17, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Your reply makes it seem as if I am trying to be awkward or personal, which I'm not. I am just saying that the definition of Châteauesque as it stands, does not exclude Waddesdon Manor -- but it is that article (Châteauesque) that needs our attention I think. --mervyn 12:42, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Turkette

I think you may want to hold off on integrating the word into daily conversation. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 17:28, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

And there was me thinking they were part of your culture.....I'm devastated to see my new word AFD'd - not that we would ever use any such object ourselves. I note you want a page on napkin rings - even with your obsession with food and gluttony you surely do not use the same napkin twice. You'll be advocating a page on fish knives and doilies next. Amusingly (to me anyway) I've just seen on fork etiquette you all eat in that way because it allows "The dropping of the left hand into the lap near a pistol or another knife, however, was an important safety precaution" what a load of blx, who thinks this rubbish up? Turkettes and pistols at the dinner table, you'll be telling me you Americans allow small children in the dining room next. Giano | talk 22:43, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Don't look at me. I like food, but know nothing about table manners, American, Continental or otherwise. I can only imagine what it is like when the Gianos dine; just imagining the elegant dance of the butlers dutifully handing out (from the left) wet naps for your soup-spattered chest wig and gold-effect medallion brings a small tear to my eye. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 23:04, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

I am shocked an amazed that we are missing such table necessities as the fish knife and napkin ring, when we have the spork and the butter knife. Is this serviette ring meant to be a sort of tourniquet, or perhaps Turk's head? -- ALoan (Talk) 13:34, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

• ALoan you marvel, that's the word I was seeking tourniquet, allthough I have found "torquette" which I think is much the same thing. I'm very surprised BoG does not have torquettes and tourniquets on his dining table like the rest of his compatriots - perhaps they are not so civilized in Idaho as the rest of the USA. In fact I may start a new page User: Giano/All American turckette as my small contribution to the culture of that great country. Giano | talk 16:00, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

• You certainy were helpful at the AfD! I can't wait for the noobs to roll in and take you at face value there. I'd make a joke about who needs a tourniquet and where it best be applied, but, you know, don't want to be banned and all. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 16:05, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

• No I certainly don't want to be banned, in fact I heve just this minute been sorting out the last person who banned me here. People would do well to remember the "curse of San Giacomo". Giano | talk 16:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

FYI, the EE case is about to close, and you're not going to be banned after all, so there. Now, as a relative newbie, I ask, should I take the time to read through the Carnildo evidence, or let it go? Newyorkbrad 22:35, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

In a nut shell: I was talking to two admins on the Admins notice board (details here }on the subject of paedophiles editing Misplaced Pages, Carnildo did not like the conversation and banned all 3 for hate speech indefinitely with no warning. Other admins unbanned within 3 minutes, Jimbo was very cross with Carnildo, and he was desysoped almost instantaneously. I am still stuck with a block log that accuses me of "hate speech", and Carnildo now wants to skip about as though nothing has happened, and has never shown remorse or apologised. So I am very cross. There you have it. Giano | talk 07:38, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

User talk:Lar

I'd really appreciate it if you'd consider letting go of that conversation. We're starting to tread into the realm of blockable civility violations (WP:CIVIL obviously) and he's already changed his response. Further taunts and namecalling might end up with the result of suspension of your editing privilages. If you feel the need to reply, please do it here. ~Kylu (u|t) 00:47, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

So long as my block log unjustly and ridiculously accuses me of hate speech I will not forgive or forget. So please take your veiled threats elsewhere. As long as Carnildo keeps re-applying to be an admin I will continue to defend myself. Giano | talk 06:28, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, that certainly convinced me to hasten over and register my opposing vote. "Treading the realm of blockable civility violations" indeed! --Wetman 09:23, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Yet more splendid behaviour. Giano gets a civility warning (and rightly so), so you rush over to oppose Carnildo? Where's the logic? --kingboyk 12:41, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

• Well let me tell you, I find being accused of hate speech pretty uncivil. I find still having "Hate Speech" on my block log uncivil, and having Carnildo still refusing to acknowledge it was uncivil or apologise for his incivility very uncivil. So I suggest you take your further accusation of my incivility somewhere they will be more appreciated. Or are you too planning to block me to shut me up? Giano | talk 12:55, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

We'll be discussing what can be done about your grief. I can't promise results, but your concern is likely to be one that affects more users, and may be solvable. Best wishes, Samsara (talk • contribs) 09:01, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Since you asked

Hi,

Regarding Carnildo's RfA, when I said all parties behaved badly, I meant precisely that. Everyone might have handled the matter more sensitively, realizing that the subject was emotionally-charged. As Jimbo himself said, the situation originated over "one stupid userbox." In tense times, escalation of one's rhetoric is often a poor choice, even when provoked by another. You might have responded to being blocked less angrily; indeed, from your questioning of my generalization to your conversation with User:Lar today, it seems clear that you lack the ability to view this matter dispassionately, even six months after the fact. This is only my opinion, of course, but I consider calmness a virtue in nearly every circumstance. This is a flaw I see in your conduct. Best wishes, Xoloz 05:37, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Spot on. I do not view it dispassionately or calmly. How would you like through through Carnildo's arrogance and stupidity and bad judgement to have a block log labeling you unjustly a user od "hate speech" Six months later I still have it - are you even aware of that?

Do you really want someone else to be labelled with an unjust wiki criminal record. "Hate speech"- that is criminal in many European countries including UK, and very unpleasant, it is also slanderous, a word we are not allowed to use on Wiki (I use it guardedly - without making, or insinuating any legal threats) However, In real life such a slur would finish my career, the very stigma, however unjust - dirt sticks - do you really not know that? It means if ever interviewed by the press, I can never announce that I have edited Misplaced Pages, because the dirt would be dug up. It makes Misplaced Pages a dabgerous place to be.

Then you have the audacity to come here defending and wanting an admin who goes around brandishing that term with no justification and no remorse. This is a very public forum. Do you think that will encourage new editors, or those prominent in their fields to remain? - Do you think that is good for the project? Giano | talk 06:42, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

I think your block entry is unjust and should be expunged. See this VP entry and please consider supporting it, perhaps something could be done developmentwise. ++Lar: t/c 11:37, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

I am not allowed to speak to you, in case Kyly of the Kindness Campaign banns me. Please go away. Giano | talk 12:43, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

That is an incorrect characterisation of the warning you received, and I believe you are well aware of it, and are merely stating it that way for dramatic or rhetorical effect, but this is your talk page, refactor my words away completely if you like, with my blessing. I nevertheless do think your block should be expunged. ++Lar: t/c 13:46, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Lar is being nice here. You should be as concerned about your future block log as much as your past block log. However badly you feel about past incidents, it is no excuse for current bad behavior. As long as you remain civil from here on out, you can conduct any conversations you want, please don't mischaracterize incivility warnings as some sort of gag order. NoSeptember 13:55, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

What's an "incivility warning"?

The term "incivility warning" is new to me. Have the authors of the warnings above considered that incivility isn't a block reason? Please see WP:BLOCK. Are you really claiming that Giano is disrupting the site — posing a threat to it? Also, I ask Xoloz and NoSeptember to please not take a purely technical or numerical view of incivility. Read your own words, look into your hearts, and please tell me if you would feel civilly treated if you were to receive admonitions as pompous as those you have placed on this page. Bishonen | talk 16:08, 30 August 2006 (UTC).

Thank you Bishonen. These veiled threats to block me are indicative of some very ruffled feathers indeed. NoSeptember is merely being presumptious and trying to frighten me, in order to gag me. He obviously has had no dealings with me in the past, or he would not try to pull such a foolhardy stunt. Giano | talk 16:17, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Whatever pomposity you perceive in my message is your perception, it isn't there. It is true that I have not interacted with Giano in the past AFAIK, I hope this does not suggest that those who have interacted with him have conceded to him a higher tolerance for incivility and misinterpretation than to a typical user. I can honestly say that I would feel civilly treated if I received my message. There is no threatening there, only encouragement to remain civil. Somehow Giano perceives my saying "please don't mischaracterize incivility warnings as some sort of gag order" as an attempt to gag him, the exact opposite of what the words say. Indeed, I would like to have him have his full say, which is why I have been reading the various pages on which this conversation has been conducted. Incivility (and related actions) are indeed one form of disruption and can lead to the driving away of other valuable contributors. Encouraging users not to go down that road is quite reasonable. Does the fact that several of us have noticed this trend not give you pause? I appear to be the fourth admin on this page to encourage civil discussion and to notice that statements of others are (deliberately or not) misinterpreted by Giano. It begins to stretch the limits of believability. If Giano chooses to characterize or perceives this as a series of threats, that is beyond my control. I continue to request that he engage in civil discourse and take care not to mischaracterize the meanings of what others have written. This I encourage him to do (not to be misperceived as a threat). NoSeptember 17:44, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

"You should be as concerned about your future block log as much as your past block log." is a clear threat. Giano | talk 17:46, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps because you haven't interacted with me you don't know that I am not in the habit of blocking people for incivility. I was not suggesting that I would ever block you, but with three previous admins mentioning incivility concerns about you, I do think that the possibility that someone else would get to the point of blocking you is not too remote to be considered. It wasn't a threat, but I could have been clearer. NoSeptember 17:52, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

I note you are now climbing down from your threat. The sudden interest in me by so many admins all on the same course is fascinating isn't it, all with the same veiled threats - good thing I don't have a suspicious mind, otherwise I might go looking for an orchestrator, perhaps you are all psychic Giano | talk 17:56, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

I have no threat to climb down from. But the most encouraging news is that you seem to be posting more civilly now than you were previously. I thank you for that. NoSeptember 18:01, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

With so many of Carnildo's henchmen here do I have a choice. You're threat is quite clear, you made it, at least have the guts to stand by it. Giano | talk 18:07, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Sorry to say, but that is another misinterpretation (though understandable). I have had no interactions with Carnildo AFAIK, nor am I active in the image area of the project at all. I keep myself informed about the RfAs of desysopped admins as part of my admin project. I don't have strong feelings about him one way or the other (just the same he probably won't mess up as an admin in the future sense that I have of most admin candidates). Cheers, NoSeptember 18:18, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

• Well that was the first of the threat makers disposed of, now where are the others, care to form an orderly line? Aspern 18:22, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Thank you Aspern, we have quite enough strife here without you ading to it, run along Giano | talk 18:26, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

• It is disappointing to me that some people seem to not read the literal meaning of a message without putting a perceived spin on it. At least two users have done that to my message above. When I intend to warn a user, I am clear that I am issuing a warning, and I will stand behind it. This feels like a staged wikidrama to me. To those in the audience, thanks for watching. NoSeptember 18:54, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

You came here, uninvited of your own free will. You threatened me with a block that was unjustified and without foundation in wiki-law. If you are unhappy with the response you have received then go away and take your threats with you. Giano | talk 20:28, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages is an open resource, including your talk page. I feel free to read any page I want to, and the basic standard of civility applies on every page at Misplaced Pages including talk pages, and it never hurts to remind everyone of that fact. I hope you agree. NoSeptember 22:28, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

To whom it may concern

For the benefit of anyone thinking of coming here to threaten me with blocks please take note and listen well. When accused without foundation of "Hate Speech" I become very unpleasant. I become unpleasant to those who accuse me, and those who defend them. I have never made "hate speech" those that say I did are liars. Those who defend liars can describe themselves. So whatever you think of yourself, or however you justify your actions please don't waste your time here. Carnildo has accused me of hate speech. He is a liar. He has not apologised, he has shown no remorse. He is a liar. You want him as an admin? That's your decision, but please just don't try to alter my opinion. I have still the block log saying I make hate speech - what has he got? - those fine admins above, and I wish him joy of them. Hate speech may not be much in the wonderland you all live in, but in my world it's quite a big deal. Giano | talk 20:45, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

• Please note: For posting the above, the truth, I have been banned for 48 hours . Giano | talk 07:25, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Blocked (48 hours)

I'm afraid your rampant incivility towards others has persuaded me to block you for 48 hours. Please note that this gives you an excellent chance to calm down, review the policies regarding civility (see WP:CIVIL and WP:WQT particularly) and to reassess your behaviour towards others here. You're no martyr, Giano, and continuing to badger users for their votes (Lar on the RfA for instance) is simply going to make a bad situation worse.

Please note that this isn't a punishment, it's a "time out" to give you a chance to recover and take time away from the Wiki. You do good work here, and I'd hate to lose you as a contributor, but the attitude really needs adjustment, my friend.

Oh, and there was no "veiled threat" implied by me earlier, I'm sorry you felt that there was. ~Kylu (u|t) 01:59, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

There's an "out" available from me for you, by the way. Please see User talk:Kylu#Further civility points for an easy way to persuade me to unblock you. I'm "1RR" admin, also, so if another admin unblocks you feeling that this is unfair (though I'd really ask them to review the pages in question, see WP:AN/I#User:Giano & WP:CIVIL) I won't reblock. Please, though, do use this time to reconsider how you're approaching others. It doesn't have to be this confrontational, really. :( ~Kylu (u|t) 02:46, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

I've unblocked. Some discussion on User talk:Kylu. I believe the situation was calming down already and I really hope this doesn't re-escalate it -- please Giano? —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 04:05, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

That was welcome, Bunchofgrapes. I should think Giano is apoplectic: do count to a hundred, Giano. Or a thousand. You know, whatever we may say, we are also judged in part on our contributions of content to the Mainspace articles. I must have missed something in User:Kylu's last 1000 edits. Only 10% of them are in Mainspace articles, but those seem all to be spelling corrections and reverting of vandalism (both important actions to be sure). I failed to find any contribution of content; surely I've missed something. Let us all maintain a sense of balance, even when enforcing proprieties. --Wetman 04:52, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks BoG and Wetman, as I'm always saying where do they find these admins? Giano | talk 07:10, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

PS: Actually I wasn't apoplectic but fast asleep having sweet dreams throughout the whole bout of imcompetency - I don't suppose Kyly is on your admirable list is she BoG? Giano | talk 07:13, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

This is totally unaceptable

It seems to me that you are acting in an uncivil manner on User talk:Kylu. Please remain civil and don't resort to making personal attacks or instigate edit wars. Daniel.Bryant 09:47, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

"Acting in a manner on a person" is awkward in English. It would have been more idiomatic to have posted "It seems to me that you are acting in an uncivil manner concerning User talk:Kylu."--Wetman 18:10, 31 August 2006 (UTC)