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Talk:Julius and Ethel Rosenberg

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Jack Upland (talk | contribs) at 22:34, 5 October 2016 (→Ethel). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Details of execution

I admit the details of the execution are rather grisly, even though they are brief. However, the gory details of the Rosenbergs' execution is one of the major elements of their story -- two possibly innocent civilians being executed by one of the most heinous and inhuman methods available. Please decide whether the execution details should be included in the article. -- Modemac

Suggestion for further research: I recall reading something about the opening of Soviet archives, and there being some information regarding the Rosenbergs' execution/crimes. I've also read that Julius took 3 tries & Ethel 5 - but I don't have a good source on that. And did you mention that they left behind 2 young sons? ~ender 2003-04-02 23:45 MST

Two possibly innocent civilians? How much more evidence has to be provided concerning their guilt before idiots stop claiming that the Rosenbergs weren't clearly guilty? And the fact they left behind two young sons is completely irrelevant. Many executed criminals leave behind innocent family members; they should have thought of that before they passed secrets to the Soviets. The seeming implication that this somehow makes the Rosenberg's execution that much more unjust is farcical. Passing secrets to the Soviets endangered everyone living in the United States(I will not bother to mention the other countries, as the case was tried in American courts). Capital punishment has long been a potential penalty for espionage in this country, and it still is. It was heartily deserved in this case.
Guilty of possibly being part of a conspiracy to give scientific information to an ally... Comment made in the hope that this section is archived.--Jack Upland (talk) 09:08, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

Age at death / limitations of sidebar

The right-hand information block suggested that, having died the same day, they died at the same age in spite of having different birth years. Reviewing the code, it appears this was an auto-calculated field which does not allow the flexibility of reporting two death ages at a unique time for non-unique birthdates. To clarify for other readers, I changed the code from 

| date_of_death  = June 19, 1953(1953-06-19) (aged 35) (both)

to 

| date_of_death  = June 19, 1953(1953-06-19) (aged 35) (Julius), and aged 37 (Ethel)

which I believe removes the ambiguity. There is still some minor formatting inconsistency as the sidebar places the initial age in parenthesis, but this was the best I could do with the automated process. At least now they are not reported dead at the same age.

Editor Lalalacomeon

I've just posted this note to Lalalacomeon's talk page:

Hi, I just reverted your edit, because it seems to me you made significant changes to sourced information without any explanation. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, feel free to contact me. Vanamonde93 (talk) 21:17, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Hello. A couple of editors have reverted your edits at Julius and Ethel Rosenberg as good faith but improper changes. Your persistence indicates you may not be editing in the best of faith. I am restoring the original text and request that you not make any further edits without engaging on the talk page. Thank you.

I'm working on restoring the text right now. Yopienso (talk) 16:31, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

NPV maintained?

I'm questioning the NPV of this article. The article seems quite slanted towards putting forward a largely discredited theory of the Rosenburg's innocence. Anyone familiar with this episode is aware that it was a celebrity cause of the far left for 20 years that the Rosenbergs were innocent. Eventually the evidence became overwhelming with the release of the Venona intercepts and so it was shelved.

It seems this article continues the tradition, now limited to trying to prove the innocence of Ethyl Rosenburg, alone. In fact as current written it might better by titled "The Innocence of Ethyl Rosenberg".

I note that many of the sources are from the Communist news paper "Sparticus" which can hardly be considered a reliable source in an article about Communist plots and spying.

Having a section on "controversy" and including some trimmed down information on this might be appropriate, but repurposing the article as ongoing propaganda is not.

I believe the article falls far short of maintaining a neutral point of view.

24.22.76.12 (talk) 16:28, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

Ethel

"Julius Rosenberg (May 12, 1918 – June 19, 1953) and Ethel Elizabeth Rosenberg (September 28, 1915 – June 19, 1953) were American citizens who spied for the Soviet Union" --That's the lead sentence, but the article goes on to say that the evidence strongly indicates that Ethel did no spying. Wik should not have self-contradictory articles. Kdammers (talk) 12:19, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

The lead is correct. The rest of the article has been COATRACKED to claim their innocence. Changes coming soon. DaltonCastle (talk) 17:19, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
The article should be neutral. Controversy continues. It would be better to say that they were American citizens who were executed for spying for the Soviet Union.--Jack Upland (talk) 22:34, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

What does this mean?

From the intro: Distilling this consensus, Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz wrote that the Rosenbergs were "guilty - and framed"

What exactly does "guilty - and framed" mean anyhow? It sounds like wishy-washy legal speak that you would expect from a lawyer. If uttered by anyone else they would be called weasel words. Simply because it was uttered by some famous lawyer doesn't make it really material to the subject and here is sounds very vague to the point of worthless. Perhaps it can be removed. Zedshort (talk) 20:05, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

It means the Rosenbergs spied for the USSR (both of them, although Julius did most of the legwork) but that they were victims of prosecutorial misconduct. This is the position of most scholars who have gone into the question (i added cites to back up). It's not 'weasel words' it's a direct and pithy and accurate. NPalgan2 (talk) 20:15, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
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