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Sinuhe, are you saying that "originates from" is improper grammar and incorrect use?

My argument is that Ljubljana developed out of, or from, Ljubljene. Not in Ljubjene.

No, 'originate from' is not incorrect per se, but originate in is, I should think, preferable. If something comes from something else, it originates in it. This is exactly the definition given by WordNet 2.0. Longman's Dictionary of Contemporary English gives originate in as preferable to originate from (but lists both); Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary gives originate in only. The Concise Oxford Dictionary states that originate is usually followed by either of these or with; Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) gives only an example in which originate with is used. The Compact Oxford Dictionary gives no collocation for originate; it, however, gives the following definition for come from: originate in.

All in all, while originate from is acceptable, I see no reason why you changed the perfectly proper originate in. And yes, reading my edit summary, I can see how it can give the impression that I thought originate from is incorrect – sorry about that. I'd personally always use originate in, though.

With respect to items other than places, "originate in" sounds extremely to awkward to me. In fact, I've never heard "originate in" used before in the way you did. Howewever, if that style really works in the UK, I will let it be.

I'm afraid I can't make out what you mean by 'My argument is that Ljubljana developed out of, or from, Ljubljene. Not in Ljubjene.' The word Ljubljana evolved from ljubljena; this means that it originated in the word. You oughtn't to try to apply logic to language; this is a matter of collocation and idiom. Also, it can be detrimental to translate phrases from your mother tongue verbatim.

I'm a native English speaker in Canada. Here, 'originate in' and 'originate from' are often used to disambiguate the type of objective cases in 'comes from'. E.g.:

1) originated in = 'comes from' somewhere, as in

  "football comes from (was invented in) England"

2) originated from = 'comes from' something, as in

  "ljubljana comes from the word ljubljene"

Originate out of is to the best of my knowledge unheard of; I have not yet come across it except in prose written by non-native speakers. I should advise against using it here; even originate from is round about a thousand million times better! —Sinuhe 17:06, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Originated out of follows from 2) above.

Whilst I concede that originate in was meant in the Cambridge dictionary I quoted above in the sense of location (I was somewhat reluctant to include it in the first place for that reason), all other dictionaries seem to utilise originate in indiscriminately of the sense. I wasn't aware that there was a semantic difference in Canadian usage (and thus likely in American also). I'll be sure to ask my schoolmates from the USA and Ireland (no Canadians any more that I know round here) if they find this use of originate in unorthodox. Curious though it may seem, I would intuitively say that originate from implies location rather than the other way round. —Sinuhe 19:24, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC)

oh stop quibling. the whole "the name Ljubljana originates from the word ljubljena" shtick is an outrageous example of popular ethimology. while it makes a nice story to tell the ladies, it's utter nonsense from a linguistic point of view. the story's a marketing stunt, as much as the deal with slovenia being the country with love in it's name is. i don't mind these little anecdotes, but they have no place in an encyclopedia, unless they are mentioned under the trivia section, with an appropriate explanation. i'm deleting the whole "ljubljena" section.213.172.254.113 22:10, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

I have a comment regarding the earliest mention of Ljubljana: the first records mentioning Ljubljana by its modern name date to 1144 (by its German name Laibach) and 1146 (by name Luwigana). One or two years ago, there was a short notice in the magazine published by the municipality of Ljubljana, stating that an earlier mention of Ljubljana has recently been found, in a document (German, if I remember correctly) that does not have an explicit date but can be dated from circumstantial evidence into the 1120's or thereabouts. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of this could look into this further and perhaps update the article. Additionally, if I understand correctly, these 12th-century mentions are not really of Ljubljana as the town (which did not really exist yet at the time) but only of the castle and/or its owners. 194.249.231.140 10:51, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Ljubljana Founded By Jason and the Argonauts ???

Is it true that Slovenians believe that Ljubljana was founded by the mythological Greek prince Jason and the Argonauts.

Here is what the Slovenian tourism board website states ]:

If one is to believe the legend, then the founder of Ljubljana was the Greek prince Jason, together with his companions, the Argonauts. According to the legend, Jason and the Argonauts, while fleeing from King Aites, from whom they had stolen the golden fleece, sailed from the Black Sea up the Danube, from the Danube into the Sava, and from the Sava into the Ljubljanica. Around about here Jason encountered a terrible monster, which he fought and slew. This monster was the Ljubljana dragon, which now has its permanent abode on top of the castle tower on the Ljubljana coat of arms.

If this is indeed the contemporary theory in Slovenia and is the inspiration of the Ljubljana coat of arms then it should be mentioned in the article. Struscle 09:21, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

this is not a contemporary theory as far as i know. my guess is, it's an exaggeration basing on an episode from a popular quasi-historical epic novel by Janez Jalen, entitled Bobri, or The beaver-folk. this novel draws pictures in the life of the early hunter/gatherer inhabitants of the Ljubljana area. at one point in the novel, Jason and the Argonauts visit their settlement. as Jalen states at the beggining of the novel, he only examined archeological findings and imagined what life would have been like for the owners of the tools he saw in museums. as for Jason, according to the original myth, he is said to have taken the Argo from the Danube over the shortest distance of land possible to the Adriatic sea, which could also be the slovenia of today. Jalen just built on that. as far as i know, that's the extent of it. 213.172.254.113 22:10, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Laburus

I'm asking because I don't know: is there proof that Laburus was an old Slavonic deity? May have been pre-Slavic. Alexander 007 09:28, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Anonymus Ravenniensis records the names of the Ljubija and Ljubljanica rivers as Lebra and Elebra (IMO, the latter are less likely to be Latinizations of Slavic forms, but rather records of pre-Slavic forms). Ljubljana may also derive from a pre-Slavic (non-Slavic) form beginning with *Leb-, later associated by folk etymology with Slavonic ljubiti. Alexander 007 10:00, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Main square

Isn't the main square of Ljubljana Mestni trg (City Square) not Prešeren Square?!

Well, the city hall is on Mestni trg, but Prešeren Square is where the majority of activities happen; concerts, performances etc.

BTW, please sign yourself using four tildes (~~~~). --Eleassar 15:23, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Etymology

This section doesn't mention that ljubljena means beloved in Slovene - I had understood that that was a possible origin of the cities name. Can anyone confirm or deny that?

Also, this article really needs references. I've added a tag to it, but I hope it can be got rid of very soon. Worldtraveller 16:09, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Ljubljana really is home to Mala Muslimanka!