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Kannada Fanatic
Dinesh Kannambadi is a Kannada fanatic with pronounced parochial tendencies. He tries to paint all South Indian dynasties as essentially of Kannada origin. He hides the evidences that go against his theories and highlights those that favour his pet hypotheses. A concerted effort should be made to call his bluff in Misplaced Pages.
Arguements on Latur=
It has got no base , for example first inscription of marathi is found at Shravanbelgola in present day Karnataka.It does not mean that Maharashtra extended till present day Mysore.One must cautiously look at these modern theories based on newly formed states on linguistic criterion.
Reply: Please dont mix your arguements with those of top historians. Please find a seperate paragraph to put your arguements in (even if you are a historian by profession). If you are a historian, please declare your credentials also. Misplaced Pages is not a blog site to thrash historical work of others or introduce your arguements in between those of historians. The historical matter obtained from Mr Arthikaje's history matter is copy write protected. From my side this is the arguement I make. Marathi has but one inscriprion upto 10 century. Kannada had already reached its golden age in Literature by then. Kannada inscriptions must have been plenty in Maharashtra region during that time. I will try to provide more information on this. This is why historians think many places in Maharashtra have/had Kannada place names. One more thing, Dont called Kannada "Kannad" unless you dont mind people calling Marathi, "Marath". Please provide reference for "satara inscription of 6th century" if you can.
Dinesh Kannambadi
sanskri inscription
"It is in Sanskrit and Brahmi script" and confirmed their origin. This is presumtious. One sanskrit inscription does not confirm that early Rashtrakutas spoke sanskrit. Inscriptions were made out in the predominant language of the place where they were installed.It only proves that the people of this village or the people for whom this inscription was intended spoke sanskrit.
Dinesh Kannambadi
Origin
I am replying to this edit , "Their oldest inscription is found in Satara district of Maharashtra beloning to 6th century.In it Rashtrakuta king Avidheya has donated a village to learned brahmins.It is in Sanskrit and Brahmi script.It confirmed their origin".
I think the above line is a bit of a "mute point". It is well known that the Rashtrakutas were suboridinates of the Chalukyas and used to rule small parts of central India before coming into their own in 753AD in Karnataka. Just as Dandidurga's ancestors can be traced back to king Avidheya of 6th century in Satara, I am sure Avidheyas ancestors cane be traced back to some other location in India or even outside India, functioning as small cheiftens from that locaton. Does that mean the Rashtrakuta empire origin is in some location other than Satara. Over the last thousands of years, (just as they do now in search if information technology jobs) people have constantly migrated south. If one starts tracing family trees back there is no end to it. All this only confirms that each one of us, whether we are Kannadigas' or Marathis' or Telugus' all have a common origin as people of the deccan.
Shivaji himself is said to have been from the Hoysal Marathe clan. The Hoysalas are a kingdom that ruled karnataka (1000-1340AD) with origins in western ghats of Karnataka. Does this mean the Maratha Empire has its origin in Karnataka?
Dinesh Kannambadi
Please give proofs Otherwise this appears as some attempt to promote and glorify kannada by distorting facts
Rashtrakuta's gave patronage to Sanskrit, Prakrit as well as Kannada. This explains why Kannada inscriptions can be found along with Sanskrit and other.
Some say Shivaji was from Rajput caln of Sisodia and now Kannadigas say Shivaji is from Hoysala caln. Everyone knows Shivaji as Maratha with Maratha army.
As far as historian are concerned they only say these inscriptions are found, from which one can not derive funny logic of king being poet. Or one of the Poem in kingdom as the native language of king.
Inscriptions related
I am writing this with reference to an edit put in. It goes like this " but they themselves called later chalukyas of Vengi as'Kannad sena'". There is also mention of Marathi inscription discovered in Shravanabelagola near Mysore. Here are my comments. 1. Please provide evidence or atleast a record by a historian of repute to corroborate this statement. 2. first of all, the above line means little, as the the later Chalukyas are from Kalyana, not Vengi. The Vengi's were the Eastern Chalukyas and were essentially Kannada stock too. However after 850AD, showed increased inclination towards Telugu. 3. The Rashtrakutas are a proven Kannada Empire beyond doubt. The people of the deccan largely spoke Kannada between 7th-12th Century AD. 4. The Marathi Inscription discovered near Mysore is from 981AD which is after the fall of Rashtrakutas, by which time, the Later Chalukyas of Kalyana had asserted supremacy over the deccan. By this time, Kannada langauge had already entered its golden age, being atleast 1500 years older then Marathi. 5. One Marathi inscription does not indicate large population. Also, this is probably the first Marathi inscription discovered indicating the language may have come from Karnataka. As such, early Marathi was made up of Prakrit and large number of loan words from Kannada. This was the language popularised by the Yadavas of Devgiri (~1150-1330AD). Later during the rule of Marathas, many Kannada words were removed and replaced with indo-aryan words.
Rashtrakuta being kannada ??!!
I completely disagree with whosoever claims that 'the Rashtrakutas were a kannada empire'. There is no proven record that corroborates the above assertion. I am an avid reader of history and i have not come across a single document that proves with certainty that the rashtrakutas were of kannada origin.
Rahstrakutas were of Kannada origin
If you are an avid reader, can you disprove that all the Kannada literature and Inscriptions attributed to Rashtrakuta kings? Try to find a book called The dynasties of the Kanarese districts of the Bombay Presidency from the earliest historical times to the Musalman conquest of A.D. 1318 (Unknown Binding) by John Faithful Fleet . OR the book The Rashtrakutas and their Times by Dr.Altekar This should make you a more avid reader about deccan history
Dinesh Kannambadi
Rashtrakuta Territories
I am not sure how to create a map that shows Rashtrakuta Territories. Can someone please do this.
Dinesh Kannambadi
Rashtrakuta map
Rashtrakuta map here shows their crux empire, Not the entire extent which had spread upto the Himalayas. During the time of Dhruva itself, Rajasthan, The Gangetic plains, Vengi and Gangavadi were all part of their empire. This was consolidated during the rule of Govinda III and Amoghavarsha I. In fact Amoghavarsha I is called "Ashoka of the South". Please alter the map to depict these areas also, or show me how to do it in the discussion page. Dinesh
Shameless, mindless vandalism
Some shameless person who does not identify himself has vandalised large scale historically proven sections of this page and called me a Kannada fanatic. He has discarded months worth of studies by me from various sources including Dr. S.U. Kamat (Consice history of Karnataka, 2001), Dr. Nilakhanta Shastry (History of South India, 1955) just to name a few (whose books I have with me). A quick look at the vandalism shows who the fanatic is. Every mention of "Kannada" and "dravidian" has been eliminated and most info on Karnataka too. Goes to show who the fanatic is. Such uneducated users who cant handle the truth and themselves have misguided feelings about other languages should be banned from further usage of wikipedia. Please revert back to the version prior to this act of vandalism.
Dinesh Kannambadi
ORIGIN OF RASHTRAKUTAS OR CHALUKYAS
Please let me know that is there any family with title of chalukya or Rashtrakuta other than Marathas .Among marathas these same families even today are found in lesser but definitely in a respectable position.e.g Hon MLA Shivajirao Chalukya from Latur.Shri Sadguru Gagagngiri maharaji who happens from satara/kolhapur district.Please remember that Rashtrakutas and Chalukyas both originated on the borders of modern day Maharashtra and Karnataka.So to classify them as modern day marathi or Kannada fanatic is no fun.Rather I can say Vijayangar empire and Maratha empire inherited this legacy.Both empire defended mother India beyond doubt.So let us take a mutual stand to respect each other keeping aside political tone.So that we can contribute more to this site. kasarKasar 16:49, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
Reply: Dear Mr Kasar, lets not get into present day surnames and try linkages as people tend to migrate around and have been doing do for eons. I can do some reaserach as bring out surnames in Karnataka that are linked to chalukyas and Rashtrakutas too. As another example, there are many Marathis with last name "Kadam". Do you suggest to say that the Kadambas of Banavasi (who ruled from Shimoga and were ancestors of Kadams) were Maharashtrian? though its been proven that the Kadambas were the first kingdom to give Kannada official language status. Historians have their own way of doing research. They go by inscriptions, numismatics (coins), epigraphs and literature, not by emotions. Irrespective of whether a chalukya king was born in Latur or Badami, the common knowledge is that Kannada was the local prakrit at that time over not just Karnataka but also expanses of Maharashtra. Please refer to books line "Early India from the origins to 1300AD " by Dr. Romila Thapar (Penguin books, Rs. 415/-) and the other books I have mentioned in the reference section. I am assuming you have the habit of reading real history books and not blog sites prepared by Maharashtra Govt. As far as you are concerned, I dont see any contributions from your side apart from deleting research material put in by people like me. If I let you go on with Vandalism, pretty soon you will delete all material on Kannada literature calling it "Kannada Propaganda". Recently some shameless vandal put "needs to be proven, seems like Kannada Propaganda" note on Kannada literature section of Rashtrakuta page. Instead of cowardly vandalism, let the person prove that the Literature was "not written" during Rashtrakuta rule. Can he prrove that Amoghavarsha did not write or contribute to Kavirajamarga. I have already provided the references that says they "were written". Can he prove that the Kalyani Chalukya rule was "not a golden era of Kannada literature". Can he prove that the Badami chalukyas, Rashtrakutas and later the Kalyani Chalukyas "did not issue Kannada coins" in addition to coins with Nagari legends, implying that Kannada was a court language? Can he prove that the architecture of the Rashtrakutas and Kalyani Chalukyas were "not dravidian in style"? I understand the Badami Chalukyas tried both northern and southern styles and mixed them too. Kannada has a proven history of 2000 years and hence found patronage with all kindoms that ruled the deccan, especially from 350AD onwards. I see nothing but prejudice and lack of historical knowledge from the vandal. Because a good fraction of Chalukya/Rashtrakuta inscriptions are in Kannada, because Chalukyas call themselves with the same Gotra as the Kadambas, ruled from present day Karnataka and encouraged Kannada literature is sufficient for historians to call them natives of Karnataka or Kannada country in general. Just because they also wrote inscriptions and literature in Sanskrit does not make them north Indians as Sanskrit was and is still considered the language of clergy/elite in the south also. The very fact you keep harping on the "sanskrit" inscription of a early Rashtrakuta king shows you dont want them to be seen as Kannada people. Looks like while you talk of not being political, thats exactly what you are doing, being political. What you fail to understand is that in ancient times, Sanskrit was often considered the language of clergy (much like today) and the local popular prakrit was whatever it was (in this case Kannada). There is no issue of Kannada fanatism here. There is no evidence of Marathi as even a popular spoken language. We have just put forward veiws of Historians mentioned. If you know the name of a historian who does not agree, put it on the page, give a verifiable reference and call it peace, instead of deleting large chunks of data, just because it does not suit you. Untill you give suitable evidence from a well known historian(s), try to refrain from further deletions as they will be reverted. History is not about a compromise between me and you, but about most probable cause and events.
I realise you have been doing this for many months now, though not frequently and are generally bordering on vandalism.
Dinesh Kannambadi
reply
Thanks for your reply.Please note that I am not vandalising the website.Rather I have mentioned that there is something common glorius history of Maharashtra and Karnataka both.That is why I have praised the role of Vijayanagar empire. I do not refuse any research by any scholar including Nilkantha Shastri or Romila Thapar or any one. What I have simply asked that there are certain families in maharashtra who are aknowledged as descendent of these dynasties.That is why I asked whether any such families are there? I am sure they will be there. In modern times also please see royal dynasty of Tanjore,Guti,Bagalkot,Sondur are marathas.But they have supported the local language. --So let us understand there will be chalukyas or Rashtrkutas on both side as the division is modern. --Forget the point of difference ,let us contribute to enrich their achievements.OK Kasar 10:38, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Reply: Thanks for your cooperation. Because one cannot identify a Kingdom by way of decendents, castes etc., historians generally refrain from getting into such unnecessary details. Whom you call Maratha, others call Nayakas, Kuruba's, Heggadde's, Gounders etc in Karnataka, Golla's, Raju's in A.P and so on. Also these castes as we call it are not really castes but "clans" (Romila Thapar) whose status and importance often changed with changing political circumstances. Hence caste is not a tangible asset from historians. What are tangible are Inscriptions, Literature and language development, architecture and records etc. People have always moved around and will continue to. A vast percentage of Indians today trace their ancestors back to central asia/middle east etc but are Indians today (irrespective of how they came into India and this is true to people in North and to some extent the south).
"In modern times also please see royal dynasty of Tanjore,Guti,Bagalkot,Sondur are marathas.But they have supported the local language".
You are right about this. The Senas of Bengal, Karnataka Kshatriyas of Mithila (Bihar) carry the "karnata Gotra", the Vengi Chalukyas of Andhra and Seuna of Devagiri are from Karnataka origin and later took up local languages in those locations. Such situations are all too familiar in India and thats what makes it interesting. I intend to (over the coming months and years) contribute images of inscriptions, coinage, architecute etc from all these great Kingdoms during my future travels in India, irrespective of whether they are Sanskrit or Kannada inscriptions. Sanskrit is as much a south Indian heritage as it is for the north (though it came from the north). During the many centuries when the north was under Muslim rule, it was the south that protected and nurtured Sanskrit culture, taking useful influences into our dravidian languages where necessary, while maintaing our own cultural identity. As of today, (today's news in Deccan Herald, Bangalore district edition), historians have unearthed inscriptions in Chitradurga district having 5th century Kadamba inscriptions on one side and Chalukya/Rashtrakuta inscriptions on the other side. The inscription has been sent for analysis. This shows how connected these kingdoms were by way of lineage, family ties etc. Good luck!!
Dinesh Kannambadi
Info box for Rashtrakuta Kings and cleanupDineshkannambadi 13:04, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
I have created an infobox for the Rashtrakuta Kings of Manyakheta and hyperlinked to pages containing info on each king. All information has been sourced from references provided, carefully rewording it to prevent copywrite violation, as per Misplaced Pages regulations. The historians I am refering to are from all parts of India to get a correct overall picture. Prior to my recent edits starting 8/16/06, most of the info in the Rashtrakuta page was correct, just a bit inadequate. I am also cleaning up the main page for Rashtrakutas into which some unsourced infomation had crept in. Please be aware that no material can be deleted as they are sourced for credible sources (historians). Any further arguements can be added as alternate information provided verifiable references are given. It will take me about a week to do the full clean up job. Any nice photographs regarding Rashtrakuta architecture is welcome. A long list of Rashtrakuta "Branch" kings has been put in without any reference source. Unfortunately, this info does not even carry the dates when these branch kings ruled making it high unreliable. Untill such a time someone can defend these kingdoms (Jodhpur, Hasthkundi etc) Its better to leave it out. The "Lata" branch is valid info though. It is known that Amoghavarsha I started this branch and Krishna II merged it into the main Kingdom at Manyakheta. A template called "Template:Rashtrakuta Branch Kings Infobox" has been created which has the long list of kings. Anyone who wants to bring in valuable info for this is welcome.
Dinesh Kannambadi
Possible Vandalism?
A concerned wikipedian notified me about this article to check if it has any vandalism,pushing of POV.Although I have very liitle knowledge of the topic,by the discussion here and reading the article,it seeems actually,the pushing of POV,possible vandalism and distortion of facts is being done.The frequent edits is done by an editor who has a bad record of a fanatic linguist and racist.
Frequent mentions Karntaka,kannada language signify that this article is being targetted by Kannadi vandalists just like numerous others.Also see the earlier discussions on this page itself.A user is trying associate everything and anything with a certain community unnecessary.Result-a advt like article aimed for glorifying a certain state and community.
I request the experts and scholars to thoroughly examine this article and find out shortcomings,sermons,vandalism etc and make necessary changes.
mahawiki 14:44, 9 September 2006 (UTC)