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Consult others

I'd appreciate it if you contacted me before changing my block length here. I felt it was appropriate given the severity of the vandalism. Alphachimp 04:19, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually I think you should've contacted me first. That's an IP I identified as a serious source of vandalism and blocked for a whole fortnight, and then you come along after that expires and only block it for 3 hours? Block lengths go up over time as the vandalism continues, not way down. Four fortnights is appropriate; it's obvious the IP address is still in the hands of the same vandals. --Cyde Weys 04:25, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Cyde, this is sort of silly. I don't need a lesson on block lengths. How was I supposed to know that you were online? It would seem logical to block the IP before looking for you. Do you commonly consult others before blocking? Alphachimp 04:35, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

You're right, this is very silly. Why did you feel it necessary to come here attempting to chastise me for increasing the block length on a vandal you didn't fully investigate before choosing a block length for? --Cyde Weys 04:41, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Cyde, need I remind you to assume good faith? I'm not here to chastise you. I'm just asking that you consult me or any other admin in the future. I did investigate, and I did see previous vandalism. It was my judgment that this instance only merited a 3 hour block. I'll repeat my questions from before:

• "Do you commonly consult others before blocking?"

• "How was I supposed to know that you were online?" Alphachimp 04:46, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Please see WP:AAGF. It's a really bad habit to be shoving your "good faith" in other people's faces all the time. If you're really acting in good faith, it should be patently obvious. --Cyde Weys 04:53, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

I would appreciate if you answered the two questions. Alphachimp 04:58, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

I've been tracking this vandal for awhile now, ever since I first blocked it. I see that it started vandalizing again after the last stern block, so I go to take care of it, only to see that you've already blocked it, but with a really short duration. So I increased the duration. I don't see why you are making such a big deal out of this. --Cyde Weys 05:01, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

The questions? Out of interest, why is it necessary for your bot to refactor my signature? Alphachimp 05:08, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

There was getting to be too much formatting, it made the edit window hard to read. As for your questions: do I commonly consult others before blocking? Not necessarily. But I don't raise a big stink if someone who has more information than I do comes along and revises my block. As for how you were supposed to know I was online ... try IRC. --Cyde Weys 05:15, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Cyde, when I used IRC, you were always on. Anyway, I don't have access to it anymore. I shouldn't have to log onto an IRC chat to determine whether or not to block a user. You and I both know that. As for the questions: I've never seen an admin consult before blocking for vandalism, but I almost always see admins consulting before reverting others' actions. alphaChimp 05:22, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

I didn't revert your actions. Is the IP address unblocked now? Sure as hell not! I strengthened your actions! If I was going to go and unblock it, I would have talked with you. But I didn't do that. --Cyde Weys 05:24, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Technically you did revert my block, although only for a second. Such a large change in block length could be significant. If you'd just left a simple message on my talk page, we could have discussed it within those 3 hours. I'm open to that, and would appreciate the opportunity to dialogue with you before such a change. I really don't see how that would have been a problem. alphaChimp 05:31, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Please, leave the wikilawyering out of it. Nobody's going to buy the, "Oh, but technically you did reverse my block, because the software requires that the old block be temporarily lifted before a new one can be asigned." --Cyde Weys 14:50, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

You chose to question my definition of terms, specifically "reversion", and I responded. I'd appreciate if you avoided personal attacks both here and directly below. Just avoid the ad hominem fallacy entirely. I'm not attacking your character, and I'd appreciate if you did not characterize mine. alphaChimp 15:11, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

You need to learn to stop citing policies when they don't apply. It's just annoying trying to talk to someone when they're constantly spouting off, "Oh, assume good faith! Stop being incivil!" Talk about the issues. And I would really like to know what you construed as a personal attack above. --Cyde Weys 15:15, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

When you characterize the person instead of the action, it becomes a personal attack. alphaChimp 15:25, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Nice evasion. I mean quote me what you think was a personal attack above. My guess is that you think "wikilawyering is a personal attack", but it isn't, and it's clear that you were engaged in it by making the statement, "Technically you did revert my block, although only for a second." --Cyde Weys 17:31, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

I can only assume you're trying to make some sort of issue out of this because you had an issue with me in the past. Knock it off. If it was anyone else who had revised one of your block durations you wouldn't have given it a second look. Expecting that people consult you every time before revising any of your actions is a bit egocentric and unwiki. --Cyde Weys 05:17, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Cyde, I really don't appreciate that comment. Please treat me respectfully. alphaChimp 05:22, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

I am extremely offended to be characterized as "egocentric and unwiki". I put a lot of effort into this project, and none of it is related to my ego. I came to this page with a simple request in regard to an administrative action. The only responses I've gotten on this page are denials (e.g. you don't understand wikipedia, you don't understand blocking) and personal attacks. Please apologize for your comment directly above and the characterization that I am "wikilawyering". alphaChimp 15:11, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Point to me another instance in which you got so peeved off when one of your block lengths was adjusted and I'll retract my statement. In all my months of adminning this is rather unheard of. Nobody's ever jumped at me for adjusting the length of a vandalism block like you have. --Cyde Weys 15:15, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

So you stand by your comments that I am:

• "egocentric and unwiki"
• "shoving 'good faith' in other people's faces all the time"
• "wikilawyering"
• "trying to make some sort of issue out of this because you had an issue with me in the past"
• "jump at "?

When others adjust my block lengths, to the best of my knowledge, I have always been contacted, if only just as a courtesy. I do the same when changing another admin decision. This entire thing could be over if you had just said "OK, fine I'll do that next time." alphaChimp 15:25, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

So you want me to lie to you now too? --Cyde Weys 17:31, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

I should create a signature like "Buttinsky (The Uninvited Informal Mediator)". I know neither of you asked for a WP:3O but here it is whether you asked for it or not.

I can't believe you guys have wasted so much time on this useless thread. This has gotten blown all out of proportion. I think Cyde Weys could have left a note for AlphaChimp explaining why he lengthened the block. Cyde, just say you'll try to do so next time and be done with it.

I also think AlphaChimp should take a breather and say "Fine, Cyde didn't consult beforehand. Is the current fortnight block appropriate or inappropriate? If it is inappropriate, please make the case that it should be shortened. If it is appropriate, then you're arguing about style not substance. Don't you guys have anything better to do? Like fighting other vandals or something? --Richard 18:23, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. --Cyde Weys 18:27, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

User talk:Hotrodhrs

Hope thats ok - Glen 23:07, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't see much hope for this :-/ Cyde Weys 04:39, 16 September 2006 (UTC)