Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Giano II (talk | contribs) at 20:56, 19 September 2006 (→Kosovo sockpuppetry: Quite enough, thank you!). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

User:Kelly Martin/Vacation

Note: Please do not make requests for the use of CheckUser rights or administrative assistance here unless it's related to a matter I've already engaged in. Requests for checkuser go to WP:RFCU; requests for administrative assistance go to WP:AN. If you are here to ask about my candidacy for the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees, please ask here. Thank you for your cooperation.

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unblock request

please have a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:65.98.90.51 - thanks in advance

DevianTart

Hope this isn't a bother, but did you take those photos on there yourself? They're very good. Karwynn (talk) 10:56, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Of course, everything I submit there as my own work is my own work. I have both standards and ethics, unlike some people. Kelly Martin (talk) 11:42, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Heh, sorry, I wasn't accusing you. I just don't know how the site works, didn't know if it was also like a "post your favorite pictures" kind of thing, but I figured they were yours. One reason I asked is because I use Google desktop and a slide-show screensaver, and they both scroll through photos, and I like expansive outdoor photos, like of storms and the sky. Would it be alright with you if I downloaded some to my computer? I wouldn't distribute them anywhere of course, and I could keep your name in the filename so you'd have due credit. If not, good photos anyway. Karwynn (talk) 21:17, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

I guess that's a no :-( Karwynn (talk) 02:35, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I've been busy. No, I don't mind. Feel free. Everything there is free for personal use. Kelly Martin (talk) 05:45, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Do not let the clowns eat you

It isn't worth it. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 05:45, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

• Support ++Lar: t/c 05:47, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
• Please add me to your lsit. --Tony Sidaway 05:52, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
• Keep on eating them Wheaties, they work pretty well. User:Zscout370 05:53, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

A Wilhelm Scream

FUC #1 doesn't apply, as there is no free alternative to this image. If you have a free image that is not inferior to the one we have, feel free to replace it. However removing it altogether does no good to the Misplaced Pages.  Grue  17:02, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I concur with Grue on this one. Stop fighting over this; next person to revert from anyone without a discussion will be blocked. Kelly Martin (talk) 17:21, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

FUC #1 does apply. FUC #1 talks about "No free equivalent is available or could be created". Why a free image of this people can not be created? This is a simply edition to enforce policy. We don't discuss either to follow the policy. If you want to discuss the policy, do that on Wikipedia_talk:Fair use, and avoid the blocking threats. Best regards, --Abu Badali 18:12, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Then the written text of the policy is wrong. There is not support, at this time, in the community for such an interpretation. Build support first. Kelly Martin (talk) 18:35, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Some people are removing non-free content even where no free version exists. For example this - the idea being that it encourages people to create free versions. Stephen B Streater 18:54, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

That's almost certainly a disputed practice. Getting away with it on low-traffic articles doesn't mean you have consensus support for it. Kelly Martin (talk) 19:28, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

It's not a "disputed practice". It's policy enforcement. --Abu Badali 19:40, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

If practice is disputed, then there is no policy. Remember that the text on the policy page is not the actual policy. Kelly Martin (talk) 20:30, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

The policy don't talk about "no free version exists" but "no free version could be created". --Abu Badali 19:40, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Don't you consider the possibility that what's wrong is your interpretation of the policy? The policy text has been recently clarified, after and IRC talk with Jimbo Walles, exactly to avoid interpretations like yours. What you're doing is a willful disregard for a Misplaced Pages's policy, and you're even threatening those how would try to enforce the policy. Please, reconsider you behaviour and withdraw your threaths as soon as possible. Best regards, --Abu Badali 19:40, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm aware of what Jimbo's had to say on this. And I don't think that you've got enough support for it at this time. I'm threatening those who would disrupt Misplaced Pages by enforcing this policy overaggressively. Kelly Martin (talk) 19:48, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Do you agree that we can't claim fair use for the use of the image Image:AWilhelmScream.jpg in the A Wilhelm Scream article because it fails item #1 in Misplaced Pages:Fair use criteria? If not, could you elaborate on that? If so, what's "overaggressively" in removing the image from the article? --Abu Badali 19:57, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I am not convinced that it is possible to obtain a freely-licensed equivalent of that image, if that's what you're asking. And the stupid and pointless edit war over its inclusion or disinclusion is unacceptable, in any case. Work out a solution that avoids an edit war. Surely you can come up with an approach that doesn't involve a revert war. Kelly Martin (talk) 20:29, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

The policy is based on the assumption that free images of living persons, building and objects are possible to obtain. The articles should follow the Misplaced Pages's policy, and not your convictions, so the fact that you're "not convinced that it is possible to obtain a freely-licensed equivalent" is not that relevant (unless you have reasons to believe this a very special case and have not yet shared these reasons with us).

I surely "can come up with an approach that doesn't involve a revert war". The approach is to remove the image violating the policy and not readd it nor block the editor who readded it. Do you think it would work? --Abu Badali 20:44, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

You seem to be having trouble doing that without creating a lot of heat. Kelly Martin (talk) 20:47, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Retract your bloking menace and the heat will cool down. So, will you block me if I remove the offending image? --Abu Badali 21:37, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

There is no urgency to fix content issues like this in Misplaced Pages. Discuss things with a few people and wait for a consensus to emerge. Whether the image is up or not during the discussion is unlikely to affect the long term result - which is that free images will be used where possible. Stephen B Streater 21:45, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

The image use is against the policy and should be removed period. Quoting Jimbo Wales: "In general, ordinary publicity photos of celebrities should not be used in Misplaced Pages unless they are released under a free license. (...) We are much better off to have no photo than to have a fair use or even "wikipedia only" photo." (emphasis mine). --Abu Badali 22:15, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I really don't see how the image is permitted under current guidelines. The purpose of the image is to illustrate the members of the band, something that is clearly replicable. ed g2s • talk 22:31, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

My feeling is that we are moving towards Jimbo's view, but as he said in June, it was not yet policy. As people appreciate Misplaced Pages's role of encouraging the creation of free content, and as the gaps get filled, the policy will emerge. Stephen B Streater 07:15, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

As of the 9th of September, the following part of WP:FU: "An image of a living person that merely shows what they look like ... would almost certainly not be acceptable as fair use"". ed g2s • talk 08:19, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Changing the text of the policy page does not change policy. Kelly Martin (talk) 11:10, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

The "text of the policy" has not been changed. It allways had "No free equivalent is available or could be created..." as the first criteria for claiming fair use. What was changed was the clarification page, so that interpretations like your are no longer accepted. And this changed followed a IRC conversation with Jimbo Walles.

Changing the text of the "clarification" doesn't alter policy, either. You still don't get it. Kelly Martin (talk) 13:53, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

That's right! You get it! Changing the text of the clarification doesn't alter policy. It just explains with more clearness what the policy has always said. --Abu Badali 14:46, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

I ask you again, Keely Martin: Will you block me if I remove the offending image? --Abu Badali 13:14, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

I might, if I think you have done so without gaining consensus for doing so. You need to, at least, discuss your removal on the article's talk page and use an edit summary that (a) explains your actions in detail and (b) invites further discussion on the talk page. And my name is "Kelly", not "Keely". Kelly Martin (talk) 13:53, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Your insistence in asking for a consensus on either on not to follow a policy does not makes sence. --Abu Badali 14:46, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

My insistence in ensuring that a proposed interpretation of policy is supported by consensus very much makes sense. So does my insistence that you refrain from edit warring. Kelly Martin (talk) 15:30, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't think Kelly sees me as a friend, having hinted I should be banned in the past, but in this case I agree with Kelly's advice. If the policy is so clear, a discussion on Village Pump (Policy) should show a clear consensus, and a deletion by a third party not involved in the original dispute should follow in due course. If no one want to delete the image, this will show that people think the encyclopaedia is better with the image in, at least for the time being. Causing disruption while enforcing policy could well lead to a block. Stephen B Streater 17:04, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

William H. Kennedy

Before I take this to WP:DR, and open up that kettle of worms, I wanted to ask for an explanation here. Tracking through here and here, the request for the deletion and salting of this page appears to have come from you. The problem is that the page survived AFD just yesterday. The AFD decided that this was a notable enough person to deserve a page, and that, while the page needed special attention to keep it clear of WP:BLP violations, it should still exist. If this is an official WP:OFFICE action, then I understand. If not, then I am inclined to take this to WP:DR unless given a very good reason not to do so. - TexasAndroid 21:16, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Response sent to this editor via email. Kelly Martin (talk) 21:58, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Kosovo sockpuppetry

Kelly, thanks for your clarification regarding Dardanv. Could you please also do a CheckUser on Kushtrimxh (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)? I note that this account is relatively new, posted a statement to WP:RFAr only minutes after Dardanv did , and has a notably similar writing style. It smells very much like another sockpuppet. -- ChrisO 07:50, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Quite enough, thank you!

I am back for a while, prompted by your disgraceful behaviour on the Admin's Notice board. Threatening in such a clumsy, vulgar and sinister fashion a much respected contributor and Admin such as Geogre is intolerable and as such will not be tolerated. I suggest you resign all your Misplaced Pages rights immediately, while it is still possible to do so with some dignity. Giano 20:56, 19 September 2006 (UTC)