Misplaced Pages

Talk:Mary Kay Letourneau

Article snapshot taken from Wikipedia with creative commons attribution-sharealike license. Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat. We can research this topic together.

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Flyer22 Frozen (talk | contribs) at 23:00, 5 June 2017 (→Biased lead). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Revision as of 23:00, 5 June 2017 by Flyer22 Frozen (talk | contribs) (→Biased lead)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)
This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Mary Kay Letourneau article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
Article policies
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL
Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5Auto-archiving period: 3 months 
This page is not a forum for general discussion about Mary Kay Letourneau. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about Mary Kay Letourneau at the Reference desk.
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.
This article has not yet been rated on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
WikiProject iconBiography
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Misplaced Pages's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
Note icon
An editor has requested that an image or photograph be added to this article.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
WikiProject iconCrime and Criminal Biography Low‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related
LowThis article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
WikiProject iconUnited States: Washington / Seattle Low‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States
LowThis article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject Washington.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject Washington - Seattle.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
WikiProject iconWomen
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Women, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of women on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.WomenWikipedia:WikiProject WomenTemplate:WikiProject WomenWikiProject Women
It is requested that an image or photograph of Mary Kay Letourneau be included in this article to improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific media request template where possible.
The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites.		Upload
The following Misplaced Pages contributor has declared a personal or professional connection to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include conflict of interest, autobiography, and neutral point of view.
  • Smmary (talk · contribs) / Letourneau, Mary Kay This user has contributed to the article. This user has declared a connection.

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Mary Kay Letourneau article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
Article policies
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL
Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5Auto-archiving period: 3 months 

Untitled

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Mary Kay Letourneau. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—Talk to my owner:Online 06:20, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

In pop culture

The "In pop culture" section was looking exactly how it's not supposed to look, so I removed it and I'm pasting it below. The pop culture mentions should only go back in if secondary sources connect them to Mary Kay Letourneau. (See Misplaced Pages is not an indiscriminate collection of information, Synthesis of published material, WP:Primary sources, and the essay WP:In popular culture.)

Extended content

In the 2001 Gilmore Girls episode "P.S. I Lo...," Lorelai rejects the prospect of marrying a passing young man on a skateboard, explaining, "I'm not Mary Kay Letourneau."

In the Gossip Girl episode "Carrnal Knowledge," Blair suspects her teacher, Ms. Carr, of having an affair with a student. She sends a tip to Gossip Girl that reads, "Lonely Boy and Ms. Carr? Mary Kay Letourneau alert!"

In the Friends episode "The One in Vegas: Part 1," Ross references the Letourneau case when he tries to embarrass Rachel by telling a stranger that she is "that teacher that had a baby with her student".

J. H. Trumble's 2012 novel Where You Are tells the story of the romantic relationship between high-school teacher Andrew McNellis and senior student Robert Westfall. Andrew mentions Letourneau in the first chapter of the book when a fellow female teacher hints interest in Robert, and again in the seventeenth chapter when he fears being arrested if he engages in a relationship with his student.

In Nancy Ohlin's 2015 young adult novel, Consent, senior Bea Kim begins an affair with her substitute music history teacher, Dane Rossi. After the police begin to investigate their relationship, she is forbidden to contact him. Late one night and unable to sleep, Bea searches online for news about cases involving other student-teacher relationships. One of the search results is yields a story about, “a thirty-five year old teacher becomes pregnant by her seventh grade student," presumably referencing Mary Kay Letourneau, although both Letourneau and Fualaau have been aged up one year.

In the 30 Rock episode "Cougars," Liz Lemon, herself being 37 years old, dates a 20-year old and says, "This just went from a senior dating a freshman to Mary Kay Letourneau and Vili Fualaau."

In the film God Bless America, the protagonist Frank says "Fuck Mary Kay Letourneau" along with several other figures in popular culture associated with pedophilia such as Woody Allen and Vladimir Nabokov.

In the third part of the book "Loitering" (anthology of essays) written by the great and worlwide known american short stories writer, Charles D'Ambrosio, appears an essay against the popular culture which criminalized - reguardless to love - Mary Kay Letourneau (Loitering by Charles D'Ambrosio, 2014) - the essay is a perfect example of the power and the influence of the highest literature (the essay contains many quotations from poets and writers such as P.B. Shelley or Gustave Flaubert) versus the poor popular journalism.

References

  1. "P.S. I Lo....". Gilmore Girls. May 3, 2001. The WB.
  2. "Carrnal Knowledge". Gossip Girl. February 2, 2009. The CW.
  3. "The One in Vegas: Part 1". Friends. May 20, 1999. NBC.
  4. Ohlin, Nancy (2015). Consent. Simon Pulse. p. 66.

—PermStrump(talk) 17:42, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

Bipolar disorder

Per the outcome of this discussion, I've been meaning to re-add this with more detail, and I will get around to doing so if no one beats me to it first. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 08:45, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

Biased lead

Flyer22 Reborn, you have not substantiated your concerns. I looked at the discussion you referenced and found no mention of the phrase "romantic relationship". So I am uncertain what you are referring to. Having the first sentence simply state the conviction without even mentioning that the two were married is a deliberate attack. It is rather like starting the Richard Nixon article with "Richard Nixon was a politician who was disgraced by involvement in the Watergate scandal." It does not matter if it is factually accurate. That is an attack.

Please be aware that WP:NPOV is not a vehicle for allowing personal bias into articles. The policy explicitly states a preference for "nonjudgmental language". Perhaps more to the point, WP:BLP states regarding "Attack pages" that "Pages that are ... negative in tone, especially when they appear to have been created primarily to disparage the subject, should be deleted at once ...". No matter how unseemly the subject of an article is, WP must always strive to treat the subject in an unbiased manner. Turning the lead sentence into an attack is not consistent with this philosophy.

Please restore my edits or offer some constructive alternative.

-- MC, 5 June 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.131.2.3 (talk • contribs)

You added "romantic relationship." And your interpretation of the rules is incorrect in this case. For example, the lead already mentions that the two were married; they were not, however, married when she committed statutory rape. She is famous for statutory rape. I replied on my talk page.
And do sign your posts with four tildes. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 22:20, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
Nixon is famous for the Watergate scandal. Slapping the reader in the face with the most salacious detail and burying the rest of the facts later is not the way to be neutral.
--MC — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.131.2.3 (talk) 22:32, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
Take your case to some form of WP:Dispute resolution then, and see if editors agree that stating "is an American former schoolteacher who pleaded guilty to two counts of felony second-degree rape of a child, her 12-year-old student, Vili Fualaau" is a WP:NPOV and/or WP:BLP violation, and/or that beginning the lead with "romantic relationship" to frame the relationship is appropriate. Nixon has a lot of other things to state about him, such as the fact that he was the 37th President of the United States. Letourneau is only known as the female teacher who committed statutory rape. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 22:54, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
I see that you already took the matter to Misplaced Pages:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 23:00, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
Categories: