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Talk:Dutch language

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"Dutch language, spoken in Aruba, Belgium, Curaçao, the Netherlands, Sint Maarten, and Suriname." Speling12345 (talk) 3:52, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

External links modified

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Cheers.—Talk to my owner:Online 11:11, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

Germanic umlaut does occur in the Netherlandish ("Dutch") language

In spite of what is told here, the Germanic umlaut does also somehow occur in the Netherlandish language and most certainly in Netherlandish dialects. (I do not like the word Dutch, since it is associated with the incorrect geographical name Holland for the Netherlands.) The most obvious example of Germanic umlaut is the plural of 'stad' (town, city), which is 'steden'. In Netherlandish dialects, especially along the German border, the Germanic umlaut used to be even more common, actually like in German: plurals, diminutives as well as the third person singular of strong verbs tend to have an umlauted vowel. Under the influence of the official Netherlandish language the Germanic umlaut is rapidly disappearing. Nevertheless, the plurals of some nouns with the short vowels contain a long vowels instead: bad/baden (bath/baths), pad/paden (path/paths), gat/gaten (hole/holes), hol/holen (hole/holes), schip/schepen (ship/ships). This vowel change phenomenon is actually related to the Germanic umlaut: the long vowels have a slightly umlauted sound compared to the short vowels, so the Germanic umlaut remains dormant in the Netherlandish language. Amand Keultjes (talk) 18:18, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

The vowel lengthening has absolutely nothing to do with umlaut. It's caused by open syllable lengthening, which applied in the plural but not in the singular, which caused the alternation. It originally applied to many more words, but those were regularised later.
In any case, umlaut definitely occurs in Dutch, as it does in all surviving Germanic languages. However, it only applied to historically short vowels, not vowels which were long/diphthongs in Old Dutch. Thus, there is the unumlauted voelen compared to English feel, German fühlen which have umlaut. steden is a rare example of umlaut in grammatical function remaining in Dutch, in all other cases the umlaut has been undone in the plural if the singular has it. Such levelling has also occurred in other cases, such as gouden which replaced the older gulden to make it agree with goud. CodeCat (talk) 19:15, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 01:28, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Change of a misleading example

In the subsection on Consonants, the last sentence of the first paragraph had a misleading German example. The t of Brot is the result of the High German sound shift and has nothing to do with final-obstruent devoicing, as proved by the plural Brote. Brot has underlying final t. I have replaced the example by one that does not have this problem, but not being familiar with the conventions involving braces, I haven’t used them. Feel free to change the notation if this is desirable. Polla ta deina (talk) 14:53, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

letter frequency

A comparison of letter frequency between Dutch, English and German

This picture is incomplete and misleading:

  • Which English is considered? Real English (with -re and -ise), US English (with -er and -ize), another type, all types? Obviously US English has z more often than real English.
  • German has more letters, namely ä, ö, ü, ß. Due to technical limitations ä can be replaced by ae etc. But is ä simply misleadingly omitted, is it missleadingly treated as ae, is it incorrectly treated as a?
  • What time is considered? Before ca. 1900 German often used th instead of t. So obviously h was more common before 1900 than after 1900.
  • What's the source? Picture description page only has "Source: Own work", does that mean it's original research?

-84.161.33.192 (talk) 06:50, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

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