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Tropes in See Also-sections of movies.

The creator of the White savior narrative in film-article had put links to this article in every See also-section of the movies that are featured in this article. My question is: Is this OK or is this just spamming? I might think that it is the latter. I am worried that in the end, if we continue this way, all tropes can be included in the See also-section', giving undue weight to them without a proper reference. What do you think?Jeff5102 (talk) 14:50, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

It is certainly not spam, the policy for which you should read. It is completely appropriate to put a link to a relevant article in the see also section of another article, and your constant removal of those links – often with no explanation given – makes me wonder if you don't have an ideological reason for doing so. Either way, I suggest you stop. ---The Old Jacobite_{The '45} 15:11, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

It looks pretty spammy to me. Maproom (talk) 15:15, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, Jeff5102. I don't think the creator of that article has been linking it a lot—at least not recently. I don't see much of a problem, as long as the links are relevant and not misleading. Do you have concerns that they're irrelevant or misleading? Rivertorch_WATER 15:28, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

I believe they are misleading. Read the lead of White savior narrative in film, and see if you think it applies to One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. Ok, the authors of one book thought so; but I doubt this will be relavant for many readers of the article about the film. Maproom (talk) 15:37, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

They're not misleading. The "authors of one book" are this, with Vera being a professor of sociology at the University of Florida and the author of several other books on race relations, and Gordon being an associate professor of English at the University of Florida and a film critic. Their assessment is authoritative, not yours. You and I are just laypersons whose opinions do not matter to disqualify their assessment. Erik (talk | contrib) 15:43, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

Hello, I created the article. The links to the article are not spam nor undue weight. It does not qualify as spam in any way. It is not undue weight because it is literally at the bottom of the article and not in any way played up in the article body. Nobody is introducing any film as a "white savior film". I have written multiple list articles and have ensured cross-navigation of all of them, including for this topic. If there are list articles for other cinematic tropes, they should be added to the "See also" sections as well. Erik (talk | contrib) 15:37, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

Erik, the first thing you did after creating the article, was placing a link to it in every "See also-section" of a movie-article you thought was relevant. I do believe this counts as spam.

• Another problem I have is that the articles on movies you edited now just state that the movies have a relevance to the "White savior narrative," thus suggesting that movies like The Matrix, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest or an even anti-apartheid-movie like Cry Freedom are movies which contain "inherently racist overtones" (as the article on the narrative states). Thus, by stating that these movies are at least related to inherently racist themes (without proper sourcing or context), the statement is not WP:NPOV.
• Moreover, this was already discussed at Talk:12 Years a Slave (film)#RfC on White savior narrative in film wikilink. The final advice after the discussion over there was, that "to play it up a bit more in the text: if it is this important it might well deserve a separate subsection under "Historical accuracy" or some other place like that"; a suggestion which I endorse.
• That said, some have just passing mentions in a Daily Beast-article, of which I doubt if that is sufficient for stating a bold claim like that a movie has "inherently racist overtones."
• And finally, if we should include all tropes, stereotypes and stock characters (see for them in the boxes below) that are used in a movie into the See also-sections, then they would become long and tiresome, which is not beneficial for the article. See for example, again, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, which has plenty of tropes on it's list at tvtropes.org. It is a long list, certainly when you take into account that McMurphy as a Christ figure is not even included there. But on the other hand, when we only keep the "White narrative"-link, then it would certainly count as WP:Undue. Thus, in conclusion, the best thing to do is to follow the advice given at the 12 Years a Slave-page: if it all really is that important, and that well-sourced, then it might well deserve a separate subsection. But otherwise, it should go. Best regards,Jeff5102 (talk) 20:00, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

{{Stock characters}}

{{African American caricatures and stereotypes}}

{{Stereotypes}}

• There is no spamming happening here. It does not meet any of the definitions. All sources involved are secondary and non-promotional sources, so I am not adding the link based on what I think. Also, no one benefits "in real life" from linking to the trope. In addition, you are projecting your personal feelings into this matter. When I add the soon-to-be-completed Draft:List of films featuring the deaf and hard of hearing to "See also" sections in articles, you won't care, right? So it is your perception of the topic, which has been reliably sourced, that is clouding whether or not to share it at all with readers. Your POV is not allowed to trump reliably sourced sociological classifications in excluding links as you see fit. Furthermore, WP:SEEALSO allows linking to "explore tangentially related topics", and sources connecting a film to the trope is more than tangentially related. If you want links to be accommodated with a description or inline citations, you can argue for that. Such links can be (and have been) added to the article body. However, they cannot just be shoehorned into an article body. There is no issue of undue weight when the link is at the very end of an article and even more connected to the topic than just a tangential relation (which is allowed at minimum). And TV Tropes is not a standard-bearer in any way, being user-edited hodge-podge of layperson contributions. Searching in Google Books, I found this right away. As I said before, if there is a reliably sourced list of films having tropes, then they should be shared with the relevant articles. Erik (talk | contrib) 12:55, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for your input. I believe the best option is to give it a try and see if I can insert the link to the article in the text (preferable in the Reception-part). Then the See-also-section will not be too long (thus solving one minor problem), while I can use the sources of your article (thus solving a second, bigger problem). It might still be a bit WP:UNDUE, but that is for later. Erik, could you live with that? Best regards,Jeff5102 (talk) 14:32, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Is removing letters/misspelling vandalism or disruptive editing?

Is removing letters/misspelling vandalism or disruptive editing?

I want to know this so I can tell if I should warn a user for Vandalism or disruptive editing. LakesideMiners (talk) 19:09, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

Yes, you are doing the right thing. Occasionally, an editor accidentally removes letters, so go easy on the warnings, starting at level 1, until you see a pattern of vandalism. See Misplaced Pages:Template messages/User talk namespace for details. Dbfirs 19:49, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

Hello LakesideMiners and welcome to the Teahouse.

The term vandalism should be reserved for clear cases of adding utter nonsense, or deleting large amounts of properly sourced material without explanation, generally by someone repeatedly doing this. There are all sorts of lesser problematic edits that may result from errors and misunderstandings that don't qualify as vandalism even if they can't justifiably be characterized as perhaps disputed content. You can safely err on the side of assuming good faith and warn the user for disruptive editing. In the end, admins will block obvious vandals pretty quickly before they can do much damage, but will often wait to see if an errant editor can be warned or persuaded into following the rules. — jmcgnh 19:55, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

While I agree with the general tenor of your posting, jmcgnh, I don't agree with the first sentence. There are clearly cases of vandalism where somebody changes something (often a date or a number) to something that is not obviously nonsense, but that with a little knowledge of the subject is clearly wrong. --ColinFine (talk) 22:29, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

If there's a pattern, you may be able to call it vandalism. I remember one series of edits where an editor made unexplained changes to numbers in a large variety of articles that, on the surface, looked like erroneous data. In the fullness of time, it turned out that they were attempting to add the latest figures, just doing it badly, with no edit summaries and no sources mentioned. So I've learned to confine my claims of vandalism to more blatant instances and AGF otherwise. Some editors have better "noses" for vandalism than I do, but such an editor wouldn't be looking for advice here in the Teahouse. — jmcgnh 23:07, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

Okay here is a real example.(I forgot if I gave the user a warning for vandalism or disruptive editing.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=X-ray&diff=next&oldid=800949617

Would that be Vandalism or Disruptive Editing? LakesideMiners (talk) 15:41, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Unclear; this might very well have been a slip of the keyboard, inserting a word at the wrong position by mistake. I'd suggest that when in doubt, assume good faith and fix without accusations. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 12:23, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

How to fix citation tag problems in Arakan?

I just added content to this page but one of the main citations is showing error in the reference section.Fez Cap 12 (talk) 19:31, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

Hello, Fez Cap 12 and welcome to the Teahouse. You are using named references. All of the references you added are called <ref name="TopichLeitich2013">. It only works if the references have exactly the same content. Yours don't, because you cite different pages. You can fix the problem by changing all <ref name="TopichLeitich2013"> to simply <ref> (unnamed references) Or, by giving each of them a different name, ie. <ref name="TopichLeitich2013p17">, <ref name="TopichLeitich2013p18">, and so on. If you are interested in different referencing techniques, check out Help:Referencing for beginners. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 20:10, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

@Finnusertop: I can't do it. Can someone do it for me, please?--Fez Cap 12 (talk) 20:59, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

Not needed anymore, I managed. Thank you for your help.--Fez Cap 12 (talk) 21:09, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

Great job, Fez Cap 12. You've managed to fix the errors and still retain information about which page is being cited. Keep up your good contributions! – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 12:59, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

What is this tool?

I recall using a Misplaced Pages tool made by someone that fixed up link-only references to match the true style of references. It was actually a quite good tool! Does anyone know the name of it and what it is? TapLover (talk) 22:14, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

Hi TapLover, welcome to the Teahouse. Maybe it was Reflinks. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:54, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

Hello TapLover Perhaps you meant ReFill? Mduvekot (talk) 00:16, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

TapLover Please note that the answer may depend on how many there are. For example, if I see an article with a half dozen or more references needing improvement I use Refill, but fewer than that I find it easier to simply edit (using VE) click on the reference then click on the word "convert", then "insert", and save. I find that often faster than Refill.--S Philbrick(Talk) 23:07, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Mathematics

What are the fields to mathematics — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ngobulali (talk • contribs) 03:27, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, Ngobulali. That sounds like a good question to ask at the reference desk. (The Teahouse is intended for helping out new users with questions about editing Misplaced Pages.) Before you go to the reference desk, though, be sure to look carefully at the article Mathematics; I think it may answer your question. Good luck! Rivertorch_WATER 05:36, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Ngobulali: the article Field (mathematics) may be what you're looking for. Maproom (talk) 07:06, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

WikiProjects

Hi, I was wondering if there is an official way to "join" a WikiProject. Do you do something like contact the head of the project, or do you just slap the userbox on your profile page and then you're done? VTnav (talk) 04:46, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

@VTnav: Hello, and welcome to the Teahouse. It's always nice to see a fellow Wikipedian in Japan. Which WikiProject are you thinking of joining? In almost every page there will be a "participant" page and all you need to do is to add your name to the list. The userbox is actually optional, but it usually puts you in the Category:Wikipedians by WikiProject. It's nice to post on the talk page too and get some warm welcome if you want to get the feeling of actually joining a community. Regards, Alex Shih 04:57, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

@Alex Shih: I would like to join the WikiProject for toys and games. If you could maybe get me a link straight to the project, I'd love that. Thanks so much! VTnav (talk) 04:59, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

@VTnav: I am not sure if there is a combined project, all I am seeing is WikiProject for games and toys (inactive). There are links in the games project for more specific projects. Alex Shih 05:09, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

@Alex Shih: Well, specifically, I would like to join the WikiProject Video Games. I saw that it seemed to be sorted as a sub-project of toys and games. Thanks VTnav (talk) 05:13, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

@VTnav: Ah, I see. It seems like there is no real participant page for this project, so all you need to do is contribute directly :) Alex Shih 06:21, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

The WikiProject recently decided at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Video games/Archive 132#Delete blocked users to redirect Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Video games/Members to Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Directory/Description/WikiProject Video games. It is updated automatically based on activity. PrimeHunter (talk) 09:36, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Victor Pyanet wikipedia page

Hello. I am planning to create a page dedicated to Victor Pyanet, the french XIXth-century sculptor that worked on various projects, many of them related to religious art. For instance, he is the creator of the famous chimeras of the Notre Dame de Paris balustrade. There are quite a few reliable sources like Michael Camille, Centre des Monuments Nationaux, etc. I would like to know if you consider this information relevant and worth creating a page for. Thank you 147.96.166.102 (talk) 07:13, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Whether Pyanet is a suitable subject for a Misplaced Pages article will depend not on his work and achievements, but on what has been written about him in reliable published sources. The Gargoyles of Notre-Dame: Medievalism and the Monsters of Modernity by Michael Camille is an excellent start. This Guardian article may help a little. English-language sources that refer to him as "obscure" or "almost forgotten" are discouraging, but not really an obstacle. If you can read French you may be able to find some good French sources. I would be optimistic. Maproom (talk) 07:30, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Go ahead, as much as the sources commenting on his obscurity is concerned, I am not bothered, since the comments themselves make him more notable. Notability is not temporary, so the standard for sources from the 15th century is fairly lax (not much was written, therefore any source from the time period has greater weight). Α Guy into Books™ § (Message) -  13:44, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

New Article

Hello Everyone, I am a new editor to Misplaced Pages. I have submitted my first article for review several times and have been declined. I have got a message like:

"This submission's references do not adequately show the subject's notability. Misplaced Pages requires significant coverage (not just mere mentions) about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject—see the guidelines on the notability of people, the golden rule and learn about mistakes to avoid when addressing this issue. Please improve the submission's referencing (see Misplaced Pages:Referencing for beginners and Help:Introduction to referencing/1), so that the information is verifiable, and there is clear evidence of why the subject is notable and worthy of inclusion in an encyclopedia. If additional reliable sources cannot be found for the subject, then it may not be suitable for Misplaced Pages at this time."

I have added several references and citations. But I do not understand the reason why it is being rejected again and again.

Maybe as a new editor I am unable to understand many things.Can anyone please help me regarding what should I change or add in my article so as to avoid further declination. My article link is : https://en.wikipedia.org/Draft:Md._Mohibbur_Rahman_(Babu)

Waiting eagerly for your help. Thank you Shawn.hossan (talk) 07:50, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

An obvious problem is that the draft is written in blatantly promotional language: "Md. Mohibbur Rahman is not only a successful business person but also a passionate social worker." And I see that it has been declined four times, with all four reviewers pointing out that it lacks references to show the subject's notability. If you can't provide such references, it will never accepted as an article. Maproom (talk) 09:23, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Shawn.hossan - Although the promotional language, memberships of golf clubs, and other trivia, must go, there is little point in you worrying about the exact wording until you have provided detailed references showing the subject has received significant coverage, in reliable sources that are independent of the topic. Although only an essay, Misplaced Pages:No amount of editing can overcome a lack of notability, may explain this better - Arjayay (talk) 09:45, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Hello,

Thanks a lot for your help. Should I therefore change the language of my article and the way of writing?Shawn.hossan (talk) 13:21, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

If you can't find acceptable references, as Arjayay described above, anything else you do will be a waste of time. Maproom (talk) 16:33, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

adding of a website

how to add a website 08:52, 18 September 2017 (UTC)08:52, 18 September 2017 (UTC)08:52, 18 September 2017 (UTC)~~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.74.111.22 (talk)

Hello, IP user. I'm afraid you'll have to be clearer about what you mean. If you are asking about adding an external link to an existing article, it is easy to do, but you'll need to make sure that it complies with the policies in external links. If you are asking about creating an article about a website, then you may do it, but you need to understand that creating a new article that is accepted is quite difficult. Please start by reading your first article. If your purpose in "adding a website" is to tell the world about a website, then please be aware that that is called promotion, and is inconsistent with the fundamental principles of Misplaced Pages. --ColinFine (talk) 09:52, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

What is the norms and formal policy about adding a limited by shares company

What is the norms and formal policy about adding a limited by shares company?103.74.111.22 (talk) 08:53, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Hello, IP user. My answer is very similar to the one I gave just above, to the person asking about adding a website. Misplaced Pages does not care what the subject of an article is: company, person, or other organisation; commercial or not; good or bad. It only cares whether the subject has been written about by independent reliable sources, because otherwise there is nothing which can go into the article. Please start by reading my first article. --ColinFine (talk) 09:54, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

When does citing OED Online become a copyright violation?

This question arose for me editing a citation for Mega-. The original citation was to the subscription website www.oed.com, the Oxford English English dictionary, referred to as "OED Online" by the company. (I have a subscription to OED Online.)

My edit involved updating the URL, which had changed since the original citation; the etymology information, which had been in the original citation; and I added a quote--the definition for the prefix mega- provided by OED Online. This is the current reference:

"Oxford English Dictionary (OED Online)". www.oed.com (3rd ed.). Oxford University Press. June 2001. Retrieved 2017-09-18. (Subscription required (help)). Origin: A borrowing from Greek. Etymon: Greek μεγα-. ... Forming scientific and technical terms with the sense ‘very large’, ‘comparatively large’, or (esp. in Pathol.) ‘abnormally large’, often having correlatives beginning micro-, and sometimes also synonyms beginning macro-.

Then I wondered, "Was adding the quote too much?", followed by, "Should we cite anything from OED Online?"

I can think of three possibilities:

a) Any citation to OED Online is a copyright violation.

b) Citations to OED Online that reproduce only a small amount of information, e.g., etymology, is not a copyright violation.

c) Long citations to OED Online that copy-and-paste a good portion of the information on a web page, e.g., etymology and definitions for a word (but not quotations) are acceptable because OED Online loves the links.

Thank you!

Mark

P.S. I did search Help for previous questions on this topic but did not find anything. Of course, I could have missed it...

  - Mark D Worthen PsyD (talk) 11:21, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

A short quote like this is not a WP:COPYVIO issue. You could quote about 10% of the page before it becomes an issue. Make sure you are putting it in <ref> tags. the rules for quoting in text are slightly stricter.

Citations to the OED are encouraged, as it is a reliable sources, a fair number of editors (like me) will be able to access it, however the source being paywalled is not an issue and you should never not use a source just because it is paywalled.

Α Guy into Books™ § (Message) -  13:39, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Hello, Markworthen, and welcome to the Teahouse. C) is certainly an invalid option; a copyright violation is a copyright violation whether or not the copyright holder cares about it or not. We care about it. We can't assume what the copyright holder wants to do with the content they own, unless they explicitly state it. In other words, the conclusion that they want their original content disseminated would be valid only if they had released in under a free license. Between A) and B), the question boils down to what exactly is the work (in the copyright sense here): is the dictionary as a whole a work, or are individual entries of it separate works. In the latter case, quoting a single entry in full or to a significant degree would be a copyright violation. I'm going to leave the question open since I'm not that well-versed in this particular copyright issue.

As a general note, there is no need to provide a quote, unless you are quoting something in the prose of the article. Quotes in citations are convenience feature, but personally I think they are bad for style. If someone doubts what the source say, it's on them to acquire the source and verify. Failing that, they can raise the issue on the talk page, where quotations can be provide on demand. Providing quotations in advance is, in my opinion, spurious, so, I disagree with Aguyintobooks on this one. Note that the WP:verifiability policy does not require quotations to verify content. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 13:51, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

A better idea may be to link to wikitionary ? Α Guy into Books™ § (Message) -  13:53, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

It's not a reliable source. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 14:15, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Linking to Wiktionary isn't an issue in and of itself. If there is a word or phrase in an article that the editor believes that readers might want more information about but an appropriate Misplaced Pages article doesn't exist, providing a link to Wiktionary is absolutely acceptable. However, citing Wiktionary as a source for a definition or etymology of word or phrase is not appropriate, as Wiktionary is not a RS (as Finnusertop points out). CThomas (talk) 15:43, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Yes there is a template somewhere for cross wiki linking directly to the wiktionary page. Α Guy into Books™ § (Message) -  20:10, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Y'all are awesome! Thank you so much for the detailed info. I understand copyright policy much better than before, after reading your responses. // I apologize for my cheeky option 'C', although perhaps it is good to have emphasized that we care about respecting copyright, regardless of what someone thinks the copyright holder might prefer. I pretty much knew that, but I definitely know it now, which helps.   - Mark D Worthen PsyD (talk) 00:14, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for the warm welcome. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CIsmael (talk • contribs) 16:50, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

How to upload two book covers from 1964 and 1966

I wanted to ask if someone could help me to upload two old book covers. I would like to add them on a German Misplaced Pages page https://de.wikipedia.org/Juliette_Benzoni and on a English https://en.wikipedia.org/Juliette_Benzoni For the German cover I had contacted Blanvalet who had already given his consens for another Blanvalet bookcover - but they did not answer to my request - this is the link to that article where I had seen the cover. https://de.wikipedia.org/Ang%C3%A9lique_(Romanreihe)

The other book cover I like to upload is from Editions Trévise, a publishing house which does not exist anymore nowadays. It would be great if these images could be added on the pages I am working at. Thanks already for looking into this matter. With best Regards Laramie1960 (talk) 19:23, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Hey Laramie1960. Unfortunately, while the English Misplaced Pages accepts the use of some media as non-free content under a fair use rationale, the German Misplaced Pages does not, and will only accept media that is licensed for unrestricted public use, is in the public domain, or is otherwise ineligible for copyright. TJW 19:29, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Hello Timothy, thanks for your quick reply. So I will have to try another way to contact them. It is utterly unfair that they should upload a cover from 1956 and just ignoring my message to them for doing me the same favour, as has been done for those Angélique books. They sold millions of the Catherine books in Germany and still do. I have even seen a telegram from Blanvalet back in 1965.

For the other book cover from France, I hope all is well, here is the link where the picture would be https://www.catherinedemontsalvy.ch/images/Books/catherine/Belle-Catherine-1966.jpg the idea was to upload it on the Benzoni article and later on the article I am still working at. Always a pleasure to hear from you. Kindly Laramie1960 (talk) 19:43, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Umm... Laramie1960, the German Misplaced Pages thing just has more to do with their rules over there. Each language project to a large extent sets its own policies within certain boundaries. The English Misplaced Pages is actually the exception here, and is one of the few projects that actually does allow non-free works.

As to the Benzoni article, (although there are exceptions to this) our principles of contextual significance mean that non-free content is normally only used on the main article for that subject in order to serve as a primary means of identification. So for example, on the article on the person, an image of the book wouldn't necessary be essential to the reader, although it may be beneficial.

As to your draft, as I said before, non-free content can't be used until drafts are published. TJW 19:52, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

I understand of course, sorry if I sound like a stubborn little kid ;-) it is just that I have watched now so many article's in the last couple of weeks, and that is what got me to all of those ideas with the images. I have to fight for everything and writing endless emails to get permissions. I am happy to know that the Teahouse is here with supporting greenhorns like me. Until soon again, best to you and the other helpers here Laramie1960 (talk) 20:08, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Template for new users seeking personal assistance

Among other things, I edit and watch articles on addiction. Sometimes there are new editors who are seeking personal assistance unrelated to Misplaced Pages on either articles or talk pages, like this. Is there an appropriate user talk page template for this kind of situation? I'd also appreciate a link to relevant policies or Misplaced Pages-namespace essays I could point people to. Sondra.kinsey (talk) 21:51, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

You could always just tell them where to go? like to a doctor, I am not sure a template would help here. The policy is WP:NOT & WP:OUT. Α Guy into Books™ § (Message) -  22:49, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Sondra.kinsey, you cannot give them any advise at all. You are not a doctor (or even if you are, you cannot practice here). By offering advise you open a whole big can of worms for Misplaced Pages. Please remember this isn't social media. That being said, if you ever feel an editor is in imminent danger, report them to the emergency team. Details are at WP:911. John from Idegon (talk) 03:12, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

list of articles for editing

When I first created my account (which was earlier today), I was immediately prompted to take a look at an article that had been flagged as 'needing editing' of some sort.

Is there a way to access articles that need editing on an on-going basis?

Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by DrowningEnglish (talk • contribs) 23:18, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Hello DrowningEnglish and welcome to the Teahouse.

You should be able to find plenty of things to work on at community portal. There's a link to it (at least on the desktop interface) under the "Interaction" item in the toolbar on the left. — jmcgnh 23:48, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Why am I being told to change my username?

I was attempting to get an article undeleted and I received this message:

Anachronist‬ mentioned you on ‪Misplaced Pages:Requests for undeletion‬ in "‪George Donohue‬". Not done. @Rattazzimedia: Change your username first - Misplaced Pages prohibits companies to have accounts here. Your username must represent only you a...

Pleas explain.Rattazzimedia (talk) 23:27, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, Rattazzimedia.

How much more explicit does the policy have to be? Your username appears to be the name of a company or organization rather than the name of an individual. The appearance of being an account that could conceivably be a shared account is forbidden by the WP:User name policy. Until you change your name to comply with the policy, as a sign that you understand how Misplaced Pages works and that you are willing to abide by its rules, you will not see much action on your requests. — jmcgnh 23:42, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Still not sure I understand. This is a username that I have been using for decades and only stands for me. So it is not misleading. I am the only one using the name. It indicates what I am a guy who creates media. Are you certain that the average wikipedia user would have a bad reaction to this name? I need further clarification.Rattazzimedia (talk) 00:07, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Greetings, Rattazzimedia. It may not be misleading to you, as you are the one who created it. It may also not be misleading to your friends and family, because they know you online as that user (presumably). But "Rattazzimedia" looks like a media company name to anyone who doesn't know you. Even if that company is just one person, companies aren't allowed to have accounts of their own on Misplaced Pages. And even if it isn't a company, it definitely appears to be one. CThomas (talk) 00:19, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Ok, thank you. How do I change my username? It is not clear from the site.Rattazzimedia (talk) 00:24, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Hello Rattazzimedia. A Google search shows a website Rattazzi Media that contains a link saying "Contact us" (plural) rather than "Contact me" (singular). You are presenting your company online as a group of more than one person. Please read Misplaced Pages:Changing username for information about the procedure. Cullen Let's discuss it 01:26, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Hello Rattazzimedia. You can change your username with links from here: Misplaced Pages:Changing username#Venues:. Zhangj1079 (Saluton!) 01:24, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

adding hardcopy proof as citation

Hi,

May I know how to add citation for a "hardcopy proof" ? do I need to upload it to a webpage?

Thanks in advance.Luvmeci (talk) 00:15, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Just adding to this as I asked the user to ask the question here as I wasn't sure. They added to the list List of oldest dogs but the reference they provided Certificate just likes to a generic page. Turns out they have a hard copy proof that this dog is old and should be on the list but wasn't sure if that is valid and/or how to show it properly. NZ Footballs Conscience 00:46, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Hello Luvmeci and welcome to the Teahouse.

Unfortunately, a certificate is not a published source that anyone could verify. Therefore, it - or an image of it - would not be something that could be cited here on Misplaced Pages. An entry in a published registry, on the other hand, might possibly be an acceptable primary source for certain facts.

That whole page List of oldest dogs has severe problems, since WP should neither be an ultimate arbiter of what dogs belong on the list, nor should it merely be a mirror of another source, such as Guinness. In neither case, would it be correct to include a dog on the list that is not reported in some reliable source as being amongst the oldest dogs. Some of these problems are already discussed on Talk:List of oldest dogs. — jmcgnh 02:22, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Hello, Luvmeci. I'm afraid it is a core policy of Misplaced Pages that information must be verifiable, i.e. must come from a published source, that any reader can in principle get hold of. Unpublished information - whether it is personal knowledge, letters, or quasi-official things like certificates - may not be used. And it is almost never appropriate to upload information in order to reference it, because it will then be user-generated information, which is not regarded as reliable (and that is leaving aside potential problems with copyright). Only if it is is hosted by a reliable source (one with a reputation for fact-checking and editorial control) would it be acceptable. --ColinFine (talk) 08:08, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Should editors with privileges substantiate accusations against new users?

Made an edit to an article. Edit was reverted, without sufficient explanation, and accused of violation of Misplaced Pages policies, with a threat of blocking.

Is there a mechanism to address these concerns?

The scar face (talk) 06:40, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

As the comment in the first line of Intelligent design says, The following wording is the result of extensive discussion on the talk page, and is supported by reliable sources. If you disagree with it, please take your point to the talk page.

When an IP ignores that and twice tries to remove "religious" from "Intelligent design (ID) is a religious argument..." and then four minutes later a new account is created and immediately tries three times to make the identical edit , yes it's disruptive. It's also edit warring. Meters (talk) 06:55, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, The scar face. As your very first edits, you started an Edit war at Intelligent design, a highly controversial article. Any experienced editor can see your misconduct in your edit history, although possibly it was inadvertent and based on ignorance. You know now. Stop edit warring, accept the longstanding consensus, and move on to more productive editing elsewhere.

Any "mechanism to address these concerns" may well result in your account being blocked from editing. If you want to argue in favor of removing the word "religious", then make a rational, policy based argument at Talk: Intelligent design, with the sincere intention of creating a new consensus. Cullen Let's discuss it 06:59, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Not to pile on, The scar face, but there's a distinction to be made between violating a behavioral standard and engaging in a content dispute. I see that you have opened a discussion on Talk:Intelligent design#Source's Jurisdiction which is something you should have done earlier. Your content argument would have more force if it were not attempting to change a statement arrived at by consensus. Overturning consensus requires more than an edit summary disputing the validity or applicability of a particular source.

But by repeatedly reverting others' edits you violated a behavioral standard and it was that violation that yielded warnings about disruptive editing and raised the possibility you might be blocked. — jmcgnh 07:18, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

I am surprised at the answers here. So let me explain. The article does not mandate going to Talk Page. It only advises it. I checked the Talk Page and saw that the edit I was going to make did not violate the guidelines there, and then proceeded with it. I am not sure why people here are taking offense at me forming an account, which was done because multiple people use this IP. But I find it interesting that you completely overlook the fact that not only the first reversion does not cite any reason, as mandated by BRD Policy, the second reversion, is also by the same user, and this also goes against BRD.

With each reversion of reversions, I give reason as to why the reversion, as it does not provide explanation, is flawed. In any case, I did not dispute any explanation, which would be then a good reason to take it to Talk Page, but merely cited any lack of it.

I find it extremely unconducive to guidelines that I am being advised to move elsewhere or that the cherrypicked rules are being applied selectively to me. In any case, I expect leave to raise these issue at both the forums inside Misplaced Pages and outside it.

Thanks! Appreciate the response!

09:44, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

@The scar face: I would also add that BRD is not a policy, but a suggested optional guidelines. It's usually a good idea, but it's not a policy. 331dot (talk) 09:54, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Well, if that is the case, I question the idea of it being used to intimidate me. Also, it was never pointed to me before I made my edits (re-reverts) that editing, in line with BRD policy can get me sanctioned. The moment I realised that I was being charged falsely with Warring, I took the discussion to talk page. I also would note that I received two threats of sanction, and not just one.

You had made three reversions within 24 hours, plus one under your IP(not counting your original edit) Taken together that would be seen as a breach of the three revert rule and edit warring. If you are now using the talk page, that is a good thing, and I would encourage you to continue to do so to discuss the matter at hand. 331dot (talk) 10:04, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

The article in question has been placed under discretionary sanctions by Misplaced Pages's Arbitration committee, as has been explained on your talkpage. You may not be aware of what that means: in essence, any administrator can block you or topic ban you for making changes to the page which are perceived to be disruptive. These sanctions are generally "broadly construed", which means that continuing to dispute the point elsewhere on Misplaced Pages, even if you stop actively editing the article, could still be grounds for a block or other sanction. I mention this not to threaten you, but to advise you that you have dived face-first into one of Misplaced Pages's most controversial areas and need to tread extraordinarily carefully from hereon in. The advice given above by jmcgnh - that you drop the stick and move on to other areas of the site - is the best advice you are going to get regarding this issue. Yunshui _水 10:08, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Three Revert Rule has exceptions. One of which is "Reverting to enforce certain overriding policies". Now, I guess BRD is not a policy. However, I would also like to point out that Edit Warring includes this - "If one skips the Discussion part, then restoring one's edit without accommodating some aspect of the other editor's remarks is a hostile act of edit warring.". I do not see how I violated it, since I was not provided any explanation. I am fine with me being held liable for breaking the rule, though I was ignorant of it. Again, I would point out that the discussion is about ANOTHER USER not following this clear statement - "If one skips the Discussion part, then restoring one's edit without accommodating some aspect of the other editor's remarks is a hostile act of edit warring." The revision history clearly shows that. If every user is being treated fairly and equally, I have no problem. But the people here, are deliberately overlooking misconduct of others. I understand and appreciate your cautionary advice. However, because I still see it as a breach of principles and fairness, I would like the issue be addressed. Hence, I raised the question in the forum and will also look to get advice outside. Thanks! The scar face (talk) 10:23, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

What do you mean by "get advice outside"? Do you mean at other forums in Misplaced Pages, or do you mean off-wiki? Neither seems very collaborative. You have the right to ask advice at another Misplaced Pages forum, such as the Help Desk; however, forum shopping is deprecated, and tends to be a strategy used by combative editors rather than those who want to support neutral point of view. You also have the legal right to look for other editors off-wiki. However, that is not a way to make any friends in Misplaced Pages, and is noticed in Arbitration Enforcement. Please pause and reconsider before pursuing a campaign. Robert McClenon (talk) 13:24, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

@The scar face: There is no exception to the 3RR that includes "I disagree with the consensus". Please read Misplaced Pages:Consensus; basically, consensus is the end-all of WP policy. If an edit goes against consensus, that edit is a policy violation. All of our enumerated policies were arrived at via consensus, and can be changed at any time by consensus. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 16:20, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

can anybody help me to make this article error free

can any buddy help me to make this article error free :( https://en.wikipedia.org/Mahendra_Mewati i am very new to Misplaced Pages :) Sumitmpsd (talk) 07:02, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

hello @Sumitmpsd, you mean grammar-wise or content wise? Grammar wise seems ok to me, it's very short anyway. Content wise is very little content, and the sources are not in a language I understand so I can't help with that. The problem with that banner is that there are not sufficient sources that prove that this guys is notable enough. Check it out here. It would help to have couple of sources in English. If you think that is not the case anymore since you published enough sources you can delete the banner, I guess. ----Beleriandcrises (talk) 09:37, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Hello Sumitmpsd and welcome to the Teahouse! The way the article Mahendra Mewati stands presented currently, there are several issues with it. You'd want to check the guidelines for notability and notability for actors. Going by the references, I am unsure with the content in references 1 and 2 for the language they are presented in. Reference 3 is notable, but it doesn't go into the details of the said actor. Reference 4 looks good for the claim of graduation. You might want to find more independent sources that focus on the individual. Further, the 'refname' had been invoked but never used and instead, the same reference had been cited twice. Though I've fixed it, you can read here on how to use the same reference multiple times in an article.

Remember that Misplaced Pages has guidelines on copyright that need attribution and request from the original author if the content (photograph in this case) is to be published. I can see that the image has its origin in a blog where the author hasn't shared the details of the image. Make sure you have the permission and attribution if the image is copyrighted, else it might be taken down.

Your edits are limited to more or less this article and Anubhuti kashyap, or articles relating to them. Before creating any more articles, please read Misplaced Pages:Your first article. Henceforth, submit your draft article for review rather than posting it in the mainspace, where there's a good chance for such articles to be nominated for deletion. Until then, you can keep editing (and learn from) other articles that more experienced editors have contributed to, simultaneously improving your article. Good luck! Mark the train 10:08, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

"‪Speedy deletion nomination of Joe Caspolich‬"

How do I notify Misplaced Pages that corrections to a Deleted Page has been addresses ? I copied information from "My" web page and posted it on Misplaced Pages. The page was deleted because it "appears to be a direct copy from http://misschicken.com/00--News/Joe%20Caspolich-MRL.htm" . I added the following note to the bottom of webpage http://misschicken.com/00--News/Joe%20Caspolich-MRL.htm

NOTE: The text of this page, is available for modification and reuse under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution-Sharealike 3.0 Unported License and the GNU Free Documentation License(unversioned, with no invariant sections, front-cover texts, or back-cover texts).

Joe Caspolich was an outstanding ambassador to the sport of racing. I'd like to have his story told. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tobbyt (talk • contribs) 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Hey Tobbyt. The website you link to does appear to be licensed under a CC BY SA, and it's possible that Diannaa may not have seen this when she deleted it. However, regardless of how the site is licensed, it appears to be very much like a personal memoir or a blog, and would probably not be useful on Misplaced Pages as a source, and definitely not as an entire copy/pased article. You should probably consider reviewing our tutorial on writing your first article, or consider taking our interactive tutorial at The Misplaced Pages Adventure. TJW 14:36, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Thank You Timothy for the fast response and the good information. Looks like I have some work to do.

@Tobbyt: The Wayback Machine shows that these licenses were not on the source web page at the time I nominated the article for deletion on September 14th. javascript:alert(document.lastModified) shows that the page was modified on September 16th, presumably to add these licenses. The licenses are fine, but it's not appropriate to use your own blog as a source document for articles on this wiki. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 20:16, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

User Page

please how can I write about my information so that it can appear on Google.Thanks— Preceding unsigned comment added by Dspark9ja (talk • contribs)

@Dspark9ja: Hello and welcome. Misplaced Pages is not social media for people to simply write about themselves. This is an encyclopedia, with articles about people shown to be notable with independent reliable sources. Limited information about yourself, in the context of your Misplaced Pages editing, is permitted on your userpage; please click on WP:USERPAGE to learn what is permitted. If you just want to tell the world about yourself, you should use social media, which usually shows up in Google. If you are a notable person, and have independent sources that indicate how you are notable, it may be possible for their to be an article about you, but you are strongly discouraged from writing it yourself, instead you can use Articles for Creation- but if you are not notable, please don't do so. 331dot (talk) 18:03, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Badly written article

Not sure where to report a badly written article needing help. ʻIolani_Palace especially Pohukaina section. The writting makes no sense. Sentence fragments, sentences that are confusing, random pieces of info that are of little importance, sections that just are not understandable, etc...

Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.79.28.82 (talk) 01:01, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

I've seen a lot of worse articles than ʻIolani Palace. But if you are aware of errors in it, you could correct them yourself. I've just corrected one. Maproom (talk) 07:20, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

trying to write an article about a national level scholarship exam.

but i doubt that whether i should mention the name of the company organising the exam? will it be considered as a promotion of the company? Can you please help me with what i can write in the article and what not for it to get approved?

Samani.khushbu (talk) 06:32, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

@Samani.khushbu: Hello and welcome. I assume this refers to Draft:KCNS Exam. The primary issue is that the text in the draft seems to be a copyright violation, which is not permitted on Misplaced Pages; as such your draft will likely be deleted. Leaving that issue aside, you first must have independent reliable sources (click WP:RS to review what those are) describing the subject in depth that support the content of the article, that is, sources not written by or having anything to do with the subject. If you have that, it would be appropriate to mention the name of the company that puts on the exam in its article. However, promotional language like "meritorious", "to inspire the next generation", "huge opportunity for young geniuses", etcetera, must be avoided. Misplaced Pages articles are written in a neutral point of view(WP:NPOV). The article must also do more than state the technical information about the exam, and state why it is notable(WP:N).

If you are associated with the company putting on this exam, you may need to read the conflict of interest policy(WP:COI) and the paid editing policy(WP:PAID). 331dot (talk) 08:16, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Patronizing welcome?

Thanks so much for your friendly welcome User:WillKomen. I can't wait to start editing! — Preceding unsigned comment added by CaraLouiseN (talk • contribs) 08:25, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Hello CaraLouiseN and welcome to the Teahouse.

Based on your edit summary, you felt patronized by either the welcome message or the Misplaced Pages Adventure game. I assure you, it was not intended to make you feel bad. As you get more experience with editing and start interacting with other editors, it's recommended that you - at least initially - assume they are acting in good faith. I found TWA to be a bit dumb, myself, but it did give me an introduction on a few important aspects of editing here on WP that I probably needed as I was getting started. Don't forget to sign your contributions on talk and project pages, please. — jmcgnh 16:23, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Proposing deletion for an article, should I do it?

This article: https://en.wikipedia.org/Sangley_Point_International_Airport, is not true. There is no construction ongoing in sangley point. There are also no reliable and verifiable sources to prove that this is true. Should I propose deletion? Itsquietuptown (talk) 10:20, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Hey Itsquietuptown. If you feel that you've done a thorough search for possible sources, and found that there is not enough coverage about the subject to meet our notability guidelines, then it's perfectly appropriate to nominate the article for a deletion discussion by following the steps at WP:AFDHOW. However, keep in mind that the notability of a subject is based on the available sources everywhere, and not just on the sources present in an article, or the condition of the article as it stands. So be sure you have exhausted every obvious avenue for finding additional sources before nominating, to avoid unnecessarily using up the time of volunteers who participate in these discussions. TJW 10:52, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

I only found news articles about proposals but not about the construction of Sangley Point International Airport. I think I could just make a new section about the proposals in the original article, https://en.wikipedia.org/Danilo_Atienza_Air_Base, and then delete the old article — Preceding unsigned comment added by Itsquietuptown (talk • contribs) 13:56, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Well, Itsquietuptown... We also have to keep in mind that existence per se is mostly irrelevant for the purposes of Misplaced Pages. There are many things that exist, but don't have coverage in reliable sources enough to warrant an article. Conversely, there are many things that don't exist, or do not exist yet that do warrant an article, because they have received significant in-depth coverage. TJW 14:34, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Also, if you do write a section in Danilo Atienza Air Base, then rather than deleting Sangley Point International Airport it could just be redirected to Danilo Atienza Air Base so it isn't recreated. ~ GB fan 16:40, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

I'm still confused. Should I still delete the article, make a redirect to Danilo Atienza Air Base, then make a new section on it? I haven't found any verifiable sources with proof that Sangley Point International Airport is in construction. Itsquietuptown (talk) 01:22, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

My article never got a visit from new page patrol

Hi, I wrote an article a little over a month ago and it was never reviewed. How can I request a review?

Thanks

WikiBear2000 (talk) 15:36, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Welcome to Misplaced Pages. If you look at Special:NewPagesFeed you'll see that there are nearly fourteen thousand pages awaiting patrol, and a backlog of nearly seven months. --David Biddulph (talk) 15:46, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Hello WikiBear2000 -- For all intents and purposes, your article will get an automatic review at ninety days, if an editor hasn't reviewed it. Chances are, dozens have looked at it. Check the Page information. Rhadow (talk) 16:10, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Understood, don't meant to be impatient. I have written articles since that have been patrolled, just want to make sure it wasn't lost in the shuffle. Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by WikiBear2000 (talk • contribs) 16:27, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

WikiBear2000 Why are you so eager to see your submissions reviewed? The only reason I know of why editors want their submissions reviewed is the removal of the NOIDEX tag. Some paid editors won't receive their money until the article "shows up in Google". Is what you're trying to accomplish here? Please note that undisclosed paid editing is not allowed. See Misplaced Pages:Paid-contribution disclosure Mduvekot (talk) 17:01, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Who wouldn't want their submitted Wiki to be found by search engines? If no one can find your article, what's the point of writing it? But thanks for your help, I will continue waiting. — Preceding unsigned comment added by WikiBear2000 (talk • contribs) 19:15, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

A creator of an article might well want it to be indexed by search engines. But there'd be no urgency about it. Maproom (talk) 20:10, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

W - You avoiding answering the direct question - are you being paid for articles? David notMD (talk) 20:13, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Removing a redirect once a new page has been created

I wrote an article about the Library of Things trend that is happening in libraries and all over the world. Unfortunately, there's still a redirect in place for the search term "Library of Things" (https://en.wikipedia.org/Library_of_Things) -- so when someone enters that term in the general Misplaced Pages search box, the result redirects to the page for "Borrowing Centers" (https://en.wikipedia.org/Borrowing_center).

How can I remove this redirect, so that when someone searches for this term, it will direct to the new page? (https://en.wikipedia.org/Library_of_Things)?

Thanks very much for your help!

Rkarasick (talk) 17:37, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Hey Rkarasick.  Done When you get redirected, the page you end up on should have a little "redirected from Library of things" in the corner. If you click that you can edit the target of the redirect. TJW 17:41, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Super. Thank you!

134.140.159.148 (talk) 17:49, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

How do I respond/ correct objections to draft: Rubber Elasticity/ Integrated Network Models?

As of ~12/20/2016, I thought that we had convinced the Misplaced Pages editor/reviewer that our article was acceptable. In July, we received a message from 'HausteurBot' that the article ( Rubber Elasticity/ Integrated Network Models) will be nominated for deletion. Somehow we missed that email. In Sept. another notification (from Legacypac) was sent but it isn't clear what we need to do to remove the 'draft' designation. Can you direct me to the correct person or page to have a discussion about what is lacking or objectionable? Davidhanson471 (talk) 19:48, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Welcome to Misplaced Pages. If you are talking about Draft:Integrated Rubber Network Models, the messages on your user talk page tell you how to request its undeletion. You do also need to read the advice you received at User talk:Davidhanson471#Your submission at Articles for creation: Integrated Rubber Network Models (December 20), and the reply you had at User talk:Robert McClenon/Archive 15#Request on 19:49:17, 27 December 2016 for assistance on AfC submission by Davidhanson471. --David Biddulph (talk) 20:03, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

e/c Hello, Davidhanson471, and welcome to the Teahouse. First, I must ask you why you refer to yourself as "we"; Misplaced Pages accounts cannot be shared by more than one person. You may need to review (and comply with) Misplaced Pages's conflict of interest and paid editing policies.

The article you seem to be asking about is Draft:Integrated Rubber Network Models, which was deleted because it had not been edited in more than 6 months. (Please always use exact article or draft titles, so that we can help you better.) You can retrieve the draft, if you are going to continue working on it and/or submit it for review, by clicking on the red link above and then clicking the link to WP:REFUND/G13.

I am not an administrator, so I can't view the page until it is restored, but you're more than welcome to return to the Teahouse once the page is viewable by non-administrators again and volunteers here will be happy to let you know what, if anything, more needs to be done before you submit the draft again. Indeed, it seems Robert McClenon was the editor who reviewed the draft previously; Robert is a regular Teahouse contributor who I'm sure will chip in if he has the time. —GrammarFascist _contribs 20:14, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

I have restored the Draft so anyone can look at it. ~ GB fan 20:20, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Much of the content appears to be an unattributed copy of Rubber elasticity#Integrated Rubber Network Models, and therefore a copyright violation. The OP needs to read about copying within Misplaced Pages. As suggested at User talk:Robert McClenon/Archive 15#Request on 19:49:17, 27 December 2016 for assistance on AfC submission by Davidhanson471, it appears that what was intended was a modification to the existing section Rubber elasticity#Integrated Rubber Network Models, rather than a new article. --David Biddulph (talk) 20:47, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

I am confused by the comment "Much of the content appears to be an unattributed copy of Rubber elasticity#Integrated Rubber Network Models, and therefore a copyright violation.". Perhaps that is because it was originally incorrectly submitted as a 'Creation' rather than a modification of the existing page Rubber elasticity#Integrated Rubber Network Models. The last response that I received from Robert McClenon ('...it should not be submitted to Articles for Creation, which is for the review of whole new articles. You may either post it to the talk page of the article for comments first, and then add it to the article, or be bold and add it to the article, although I recommend discussion first. I will comment more later. Robert McClenon (talk) 05:47, 28 December 2016 (UTC)') I took the 'Bold Approach' and posted the article as an addition to the existing page. Since I did not hear back from Mr. McClenon, I concluded that the addition had not met with any further objections. I am certainly not adverse to modifying the article to satisfy the editor's suggestions- I'm just not sure exactly what needs to be done. The subject of Rubber Elasticity is of interest to a wide range of people with varying levels of scientific background. The article is intended to be useful to all. Davidhanson471 (talk) 21:20, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

In that case, I don't see why you would object to the deletion of Draft:Integrated Rubber Network Models, Davidhanson471, given that it was created by mistake. Perhaps you mistakenly thought the deletion message referred to Rubber elasticity? Cordless Larry (talk) 22:49, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Do you want the draft of Draft:Integrated Rubber Network Models reviewed, or deleted, or what? By the way, although in Misplaced Pages, there is no deadline, there is a 6-month deadline in that drafts become dead if they are not edited in six months. Also, if you ask an editor about something that they did six or nine months ago, they may not be able to answer. Robert McClenon (talk) 00:46, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Also, User:Davidhanson471, who are "we"? Robert McClenon (talk) 00:47, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Seeking help turning company article to read less like an advertisement than an entry in an encyclopedia

Looking to create an article for a men's apparel brand (https://en.wikipedia.org/Draft:TravisMathew) that was recently acquired by a large global brand, Callaway Golf, which has its own wiki entry. The brand is worthy of notoriety based on this acquisition ($160M), linking to other wiki articles (Callaway itself, sponsored athletes like Andy Roddick, James Blake, etc) and it's familiarity in the men's apparel world. The draft included viable references as well.

Any help to rework the draft page to make it acceptable to be approved would be great. 47.180.107.242 (talk) 20:04, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Actually based on what you have said, it should be added to the main business article instead. Α Guy into Books™ § (Message) -  22:16, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Contribute to Wiki

Hello I would like to contribute some pages of interest to wiki I thought wiki was basis and partial I have been looking at wikipedia pages for years and you never have any of the people, places or things that I would like to know more about for example you have Musical.ly up here but don't have VideoStar the app that started it all you have Johnny Orlando but don't have Qeuyl you allow IMDB as sourceable but don't allow IMVDB you accept fan made blogs but don't accept small magazines as sourceable information it seems to me that Misplaced Pages is very harsh to noobs or maybe I'm doing something wrong . Chrisbrad (talk) 22:36, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

@Chrisbrad: Hello and welcome. I'm not sure what you've been reading, but IMDB is not considered a reliable source as it is user-editable. I'm sure that it wouldn't be too hard to find it in articles, as this is a volunteer effort and things can only be removed if someone sees them. For information on what reliable sources are, please click on WP:RS. It is true that there is a steep learning curve to Misplaced Pages for new users, especially if they want to dive into creating articles. Creating articles is one of the hardest things to do here. Most new editors who become successful did so by starting small, making small edits to existing articles, then gradually working their way up to bigger edits and creating articles. You may want to consider making small edits to existing articles, which will help you learn how Misplaced Pages works. You may also find it educational to play The Misplaced Pages Adventure(located at WP:ADVENTURE) which is a tutorial of sorts to using and editing Misplaced Pages. If you have any other questions, please post them below. 331dot (talk) 22:44, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Hello, Chrisbrad. A "small" magazine can most certainly be a reliable source, if it has professional editorial control and a reputation for accuracy and correcting errors. With very limited exceptions, IMDb is not a reliable source. Cullen Let's discuss it 01:19, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for all your insight I will once again continue to submit my articles on the people, places and things that are missing from the wiki world Chrisbrad (talk) 15:26, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

deleted page

I tried to create a page for my grandfather who is a relative of two famous actors and had a career himself. The article ended up deleted and I hate that it was. He deserves a page just as much as his brother and sister. How can I get it to stay?

Devilsfanatic3026 (talk) 00:51, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, Devilsfanatic3026. The article you wrote was deleted as the result of this debate: Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Akhtar Hussain (writer). In that debate, you wrote "I feel he has been short changed by the industry because he wasn't as well known as his more famous siblings. It is hard for me to find sources for this outside of IMDB because he wasn't as well known as them." Those sentences were really arguments for deleting the article rather than keeping it. Misplaced Pages has articles only about notable actors and notable authors, and this is shown by significant coverage in independent, reliable sources. Since I am an administrator, I can view deleted articles. The one you wrote was referenced only to IMDb which is not a reliable source for establishing the notability of an actor. If it is true that this person wasn't very well known and that sources are hard to find, then it is a almost impossible to write an acceptable Misplaced Pages biography of this person. Cullen Let's discuss it 01:38, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Devilsfanatic3026 if your grandfather was involved in the lives of his famous relatives, it may be appropriate to add information about his relationship with his siblings. You may want to pursue that angle, but remember that the article needs to be about them, not him. It would only be OK to add information if it's from a reliable source and if he was a significant part of their lives, which is sometimes the case. Megalibrarygirl (talk) 17:01, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

List of Copts - Page won't link

Hello Teahouse Members,

I appreciate having been invited here as a friendly learning space. I'm drafting Draft:Wael K. Barsoum who is a member of the Egyptian Coptic Church. I am having trouble getting the ] to display correctly as a category. Can you provide some guidance? Thanks.

Hilda in South Florida (talk) 02:23, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Welcome to Misplaced Pages. List of Copts is a list, not a category. Category:List of Copts does not exist. --David Biddulph (talk) 03:00, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

That means you must select from Category:Copts and its subcategories to indicate he is a Copt. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:08, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

{{|@DavidBiddulph|@PrimeHunter|}} Thank you both for the explanations and suggestions.

Hilda in South Florida (talk) 12:30, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Tried my hand at creating a new article, disapproved. I really want to add content to Misplaced Pages. Please help!

Hi Friends,

I submitted https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Draft:Johnson_Lifts which was disapproved.

The reason for disapproval given was "The references cited are either to passing mentions of the subject, financial transactions involving the subject, or to the the subject's own cite. None of these constitute in-depth coverage about the subject, which is required for meeting Misplaced Pages's notability standards."

The article I created includes links from Hindu Businessline, VC Circle, and Business World. I believe http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/companies/johnson-lifts-upbeat-on-growth-eyes-2200crore-revenues-by-2019/article9407506.ece is pretty in depth coverage.

Can someone please point me in the direct of what sort of coverage would be workable for Indian companies? They aren't going to get many mentions in the US press, but this is a very notable and well known company in India. I'm in one of their elevators every day on the way to work as are hundreds of thousands/(millions?) of other people, figured folks would want to know more about them.

I really want to add content to Misplaced Pages and this was my first try. I'm crushed by the rejection :( . Please point me in the right direction if possible. Thanks!

Bobbydig01 Bobbydig01 (talk) 05:50, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

@Bobbydig01: Hello and welcome. I'm sorry you have been disappointed. A company or any article subject does not have to be written about in the US press at all, but they do need in depth coverage in independent reliable sources that indicates how the subject is notable per guidelines, in this case the notability guidelines for businesses' If you click WP:ORG to review them, it will explain what sorts of information is being looked for. The source you provide above would not qualify at least as I see it; it is a basic announcement, possibly a press release, of a business transaction which the notability guidelines specifically state is not acceptable. Please understand that not every company merits a page here; even well known companies don't if they aren't usually written about in independent sources.

Please understand that successfully writing a Misplaced Pages article is one of the hardest things to do here. It takes time, practice, and effort. Most users who are successful at writing articles started small by making small edits to existing articles, then working their way up to larger edits, then finally to creating articles on their own. Diving right in to creating articles, as you seem to have, often results in disappointment and hurt feelings. I would suggest starting out by editing existing pages first before creating articles. However, if you still want to try to create an article, I would suggest reading Your First Article first, as well as doing The Misplaced Pages Adventure, which is a tutorial of sorts. Both of these will give you a better idea of what is being looked for. 331dot (talk) 08:25, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

• Well, I do not want to double guess the reviewer (Drewmutt) but I would say does constitute a decent source. Not enough to single-handedly prove notability, but still a bit above passing mentions of the subject, financial transactions involving the subject, or to the the subject's own cite. I would say the current sourcing is not enough to pass the page, but by a bare margin, so some encouragement is deserved.

This being said, Bobbydig01, you have made two mistakes in the process of making this draft. First is that you uploaded File:JohnsonLOGO.jpg to Wikimedia Commons, which is almost surely a copyright violation, and I therefore nominated it for deletion; we can have copyrighted logos in articles but with very strict restrictions, please read WP:LOGO. Second, the article itself is kind of an advertisement - everything below the lead is pretty much irrelevant for an encyclopedia article. (Both of these problems are fixable though.) Tigraan 08:53, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Request for assistance on editing content - template message

Hello. I recently edited the 'The Homes of Football' page, which is about football photography. I thought I edited it to a standard where content no longer read like an advertisement. There is critical response in the entry but all quotations have proper citations and are factual. As a new editor, I would like to ask for some help and response on what could be done to improve this entry to a standard where the template message is no longer necessary. I have removed all quotations and footnotes that weren't proper citations. Any feedback or help would be greatly appreciated so I can improve as an editor. The template message is below:

This article contains content that is written like an advertisement. Please help improve it by removing promotional content and inappropriate external links, and by adding encyclopedic content written from a neutral point of view. (September 2017) (Learn how and when to remove this template message)

Encyclopediadia (talk) 08:59, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

It would appear the whole article is promotional, I suggest you concentrate on the article about the photographer, as most the content is duplicated anyway. Α Guy into Books™ § (Message) -  09:49, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

DYK

The next queue 6 is empty, and there are only a few minutes left for the next DYK. I think an admin needs to promote the next prep 6 to queue 6. See the bot's message at Misplaced Pages talk:DYK Adityavagarwal (talk) 12:17, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

It looks like this has been done, Adityavagarwal. For future reference, the Teahouse isn't really the place to request administrator attention. We have a range of noticeboards for that, and Misplaced Pages talk:DYK itself. I imagine that if a queue isn't in place, then the current DYKs just stay on the front page a bit longer, which wouldn't be a disaster. I might be wrong about that, though. Cordless Larry (talk) 12:28, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, Cordless Larry is correct. Now that the queues have switched from 24 hours back to 12 hours again, there's bound to be occasional delays as there aren't that many active prep builders/promoters. Alex Shih 16:35, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Notability issue with new page creation

Hello,

I am really new here, but I really want to learn. I am trying to create a page on the biggest free web hosting company: https://en.wikipedia.org/Draft:000webhost , but it keeps being rejected. 000webhost is covered by such media networks as Forbes, TechCrunh, WikiHow, loads of hosting listing sites etc., it is really well admired by hosting community.

How do I present all the sources in a correct way, so that it pass notability rules? I have a feeling that I am doing something wrong, since this company is really big and truly notable.

I do not want somebody to fix it for me - I really want to understand the reason and get some guidance to fix the issues myself.

Thank you for your help and understanding.

Daugis1 (talk) 18:02, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Hello, Daugis1, and welcome to the Teahouse. Please read the policies and guidelines linked in the message that says your draft was declined. For starters, Misplaced Pages articles are not reliable sources, so never cite them. The same goes for WikiHow. Blogs are usually not reliable sources; what makes you think that Mansoor's Blog is an acceptable source?

You can cite hosting listings, provided that they are reliable, but such passing mentions are likely not the significant coverage needed for notability.

You can also cite the company's own web page for some uncontroversial details that you cannot find in other sources, but the homepage does not contribute to notability. Notability is significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the topic (hence the company website might be reliable, and you can cite it, but it's not independent). In order to show notability, you need more reliable, independent sources with in-depth coverage. The Forbes article is excellent, but it's just one article. You'll need more like it. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 19:50, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Submitted first article but need to change title

I need to change "SeaCamp, Big Pine Key, Florida" to "Seacamp Association, Big Pine Key, Florida" I can edit the page but not the title. Do I need to delete the first submission and resubmit a new page?

Next, I need to add it to the list of Summer Camps. Do I need to wait until the page is accepted then add it to the list page?

Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by OddsnEnds (talk • contribs) 18:08, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Hello, OddsnEnds and welcome to the Teahouse. I'm afraid that you have had an all too common experience for people that come into this big complicated system called Misplaced Pages and immediately try one of the most difficult tasks: creating a new article. I see from your talk page that Fuhgettaboutit has deleted your draft as a copyright violation, and explained both that and another pitfall you may have fallen into.

Please understand that Misplaced Pages is not a vehicle for telling the world about your company (or yourself, your school, your band, or your charity, however admirable any of these may be). People who come here with that purpose often have a frustrating time, and usually will find it better to spend their time and their effort somewhere else. When we do have an article about an orgnisation, we have very little interest in what that organisation says, does, or publishes except as reported by people who have no connection with the organisation, who choose to write about it in a reliable published source. Furthermore, we have absolutely no interest in how that organisation wishes to be portrayed: again, we rely entirely on how independent people have portrayed it, good or bad. Do you see why it does not make a good platform for promoting anything?

The answer to your specific questions is that you rename an article by moving it; but there's not usually much point in renaming a draft: when you submit it for review, the reviewer who accepts it will move it to mainspace and sort out any naming issues. And yes, do not think of adding it to the list until there is an article which has been accepted into main space.

If you choose to try again, please study your first article first, as well as the other links Fuhgettaboutit put on your user talk page. --ColinFine (talk) 19:29, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

I'm trying to figure out which of my sources are not credible.

My article was declined. I would like to add more credible sources to it. Would someone be able to tell me which ones aren't good sources? https://en.wikipedia.org/Draft:LogiGear_Corporation

Parasc650 (talk) 18:46, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

A fine line between adding notability and promotion

Hello! I am working on my first article, which was initially rejected for notability issues of a company. There are a number of articles written about the company. In particular the company has been recognized multiple times by a prestigious business organization regarding inner city businesses. It certainly is an art to add this without sounding promotional. Here is my first draft of an edit I am looking to include, any feedback would be welcome.

"The ICIC, Initiative for a Competitive Inner City , founded by noted Harvard economist Michael Porter, selects 100 companies across the US each year and recognizes them for “Illuminating the competitive advantages of being in the inner city”, including publication in Fortune magazine. Talan Products has been so recognized four times."

To me this sounds like promotional language, but adding the info that makes the company noteworthy without doing so is tricky. I do not feel the rest of the article was in a promotional tone, and I was not called out on that by the editor.

The company is included in a documentary which shall be airing on the weather channel. I do feel this company is notable, especially given other companies included in the same industry in Misplaced Pages ( I know, previous inclusions don't matter). I did add 6 other articles, from different sources and not mere mentions in my initial submission.

I am new, and I wish to learn. Thank you for your time and advice. ~Woodie Woodieand (talk) 19:31, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Hi Woodieand! You're right: it is a very fine line between trying to make sure that the subject of your article is viewed as notable by readers and sounding "promotional." I find that it's important to ensure that you use neutral wording as much as possible and avoid superlatives. For example, your draft is very good, but this is how I would have written it:

The Initiative for a Competitive Inner City (ICIC), is an organization founded by Harvard economist, Michael Porter. ICIC selects 100 companies from across the US each year in order to recognize them for their work in inner cities. These companies are subsequently published in Fortune magazine. Talan Products has been recognized four times by ICIC.

Even better would be just:

Talan Products has been recognized by the Initiative for a Competitive Inner City (ICIC) four times.

If ICIC is notable, then it should have its own article which explains what it does and how it honors inner city companies.

I hope that makes sense! Megalibrarygirl (talk) 19:47, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Great advice! Thank you. ..and Hi Megalibrarygirl

Woodieand (talk) 20:16, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Thank you Theroadislong for the comment. I don't know how to reply to it except for here. I copied that format from several other company articles. A few of them even longer. I thought it was a bit crazy. I will work on it! Thanks for the comment.

Woodieand (talk) 20:21, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Intimidation / threat to create a media scandal: specific rule?

Is there a specific rule against an intimidation for the media to be alerted, like here (last sentence) or here (last sentence translation: "You are well aware that everything is public, and that anyone can post in on Twitter (with all the media fuss to come due to some expression used in talk page" (PDD = page de discussion).

I guess it is already forbidden, but I think there it is nowhere specifically written and I think it would be useful. Where to propose that to be written?

Thanks.

Launebee (talk) 19:46, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Hi Launebee. You may be interested in WP:THREATEN. If you don't think the guidelines page discusses exactly what you are dealing with, you might post on that talk page. White Arabian Filly 21:38, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Hi Launebee. Per WP:TPG, talk page discussion is required to be in English. You may wish to warn the editor by placing {{subst:uw-english|Talk:Panthéon-Assas University}} on their talk page. John from Idegon (talk) 23:02, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Also, I've seen threats to involve the media dealt with by an administrator making an WP:IAR application of WP:NLT. The no legal threat policy is intended to prevent an editor from "chilling" discussion by threatening legal action. That appears to be exactly the effect that the editor is trying to invoke here. In order to have that happen, you'd need to file a complaint at WP:ANI. Just a couple cautions about that: First, Po has been discussed there way too many times. Make sure you support your complaint fully with diffs like you did here and keep it as brief as possible. Second, make sure your own hands are clean (not accusing you of anything, as I haven't, and won't be, digging into it) as everyone involved in an ANI complaint are subject to investigation. John from Idegon (talk) 23:15, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Thanks a lot talk. He has been speaking French quite a lot to get away from what was said on talk page. For example, the edit summaries of the 12 September..

Regarding the warning, it would be better if somebody else does it. That user has been very aggressive and harassing so I prefer not to have too much contact, it would be an occasion to bully me again.

There is an ANI request mainly on other attacks toward me. --Launebee (talk) 23:22, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

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