This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Miniapolis (talk | contribs) at 17:17, 7 April 2018 (→Discretionary sanctions appeal by MapSGV (India-Pakistan case): Archiving closed DS appeal to Misplaced Pages talk:Requests for arbitration/India-Pakistan). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Clarification request: Race and intelligence

Initiated by Captain Occam at 09:17, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

Case or decision affected

Race and intelligence arbitration case (t) (ev / t) (w / t) (pd / t)

List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request:

• Captain Occam (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) (initiator)
• Ferahgo the Assassin (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request

Statement by Captain Occam

I was advised by a member of ArbCom to ask about this here, so I may as well give it a shot.

In a current AE thread, admins are reaching a consensus that I have violated my topic ban from articles related to race and intelligence by discussing them over e-mail, and by editing in the topic of human intelligence and psychometrics in general. The question of whether topic bans extend to e-mail is currently being discussed in a RFC, but I would like ArbCom to address the second question, regarding the exact scope of my topic ban. I've included user:Ferahgo_the_Assassin as a party because she is under a topic ban identical to mine, so whatever decision ArbCom makes about the scope of my topic ban presumably applies to the scope of hers also.

The edits I've made that are being considered topic ban violations are this edit to the Oliver James article, and my former participation in the psychometrics task force, where my involvement focused on making it possible to tag articles within this task force's scope, and also searching for other editors who might be interested in participating in the task force, as per user:Everymorning's suggestion here. The discretionary sanctions from the race and intelligence arbitration case are defined as covering "the intersection of race/ethnicity and human abilities and behaviour, broadly construed". I had assumed that the scope of my topic ban was the same as the scope of the discretionary sanctions, and that it therefore covered only articles about psychological traits in relation to race. Psychometrics (including in relation to genetics) is a far vaster field than the small subset of this research that deals with group differences, so this difference between the two possible interpretations of my topic ban is not trivial.

I recognize that whether these edits were within the scope of my topic ban or not, it was unwise for me to get involved in a topic so close to the area of my topic ban, or to engage in a behavior that looked similar to canvassing. For 14 of the 15 months since my site-ban was lifted, I've avoided editing anything related to human intelligence, but my attention was recently attracted back to that topic because of a discussion about it at Wikipediocracy, and also an article I recently was invited to write about the topic for an unrelated website. Regardless of the outcome of the AE thread, from now on I intend to avoid the topic of human intelligence and psychometrics entirely for as long as my topic ban remains in effect. However, I think it's important for ArbCom to clarify the scope of my topic ban for the purpose of that AE thread, because this affects the question of how harshly I deserve to be sanctioned there.

Does the scope of topic bans from the race and intelligence arbitration case apply to the same set of articles that are covered by discretionary sanctions (articles that discuss both race and psychological traits), or does it have a broader scope (race or psychological traits)? --Captain Occam (talk) 09:44, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

Responses

@Sandstein: My intention with this proposal isn't to evade the possibility of being sanctioned, and if you're concerned it might have that affect, I have a suggestion about how to make sure it doesn't. Based on the discussion thus far in the AE thread, I think it's clear that at a minimum, I'm going to receive a month-long arbitration enforcement block for having violated my topic ban by discussing R&I articles over e-mail. I would accept it for you to close the AE thread with a month-long block for me, as long as I'm able to continue participating in this clarification request via my user talk. If ArbCom determines that I've engaged in additional violations of my topic ban and that I deserve an indef block, the indef block would be a non-AE action, so it could be done after the AE thread has been closed.

I'm obviously reluctant to advocate a block for myself, but I'm proposing this because it's very important to me that others not assume bad faith about this request for clarification. Please let me know if you'd accept the solution I'm proposing. --Captain Occam (talk) 10:09, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

@Euryalus: As I said in response to your e-mail, that's what I'm intending to do after this issue is over with, the same as I was doing from the time when my ArbCom lifted my site-ban until a few weeks ago. But it's a bit difficult to be motivated for that at a time when I know that any edits I make are about to get cut short by a block, and possibly an indef one. --Captain Occam (talk) 10:25, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

@GoldenRing: There is something I think it's very important to clarify here. Aside from my recent e-mail to Beyond my Ken, my contacting of other editors via e-mail has been specifically about the psychometrics task force, not about the race and intelligence topic. Influencing editors in the R&I topic via e-mail is something that I used to do, and I mentioned this to ArbCom when I appealed my ban to them in December 2016, but it isn't something I've been doing in the time since my ban was lifted. Aside from my e-mail to Beyond my Ken, I have only sent one other e-mail to a Misplaced Pages user in the past year that directly concerned the race and intelligence topic. It was an e-mail to Everymorning in which I made a general suggestion that he pay attention to that article, during a lengthy correspondence about the task force that was mostly unrelated to race and intelligence. That e-mail was sent directly to his e-mail address, not through the Misplaced Pages e-mail feature.

I'm willing to provide the e-mails that are coming under scrutiny here, so that you and other admins can see that what I'm saying about them is correct.

Now, I know that the psychometrics task force might possibly be covered by my topic ban also, so that e-mailing other users about that could be considered a topic ban violation, but this wasn't something that I had been aware of. You and the other AE admins are basing your decision on the assumption that I presently have a pattern of deliberately circumventing my topic ban with the e-mail function, and that isn't the case. I would like the AE decision about me to be based on the reality of the situation, and not based on an incorrect assumption. --Captain Occam (talk) 12:30, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

The e-mails

@GoldenRing: Actually, since I could potentially be indeffed at any moment, I guess I'll go ahead and do what I was offering to do. Aside from Everymorning and Beyond my Ken, I have only e-mailed two Misplaced Pages users in in the past year in relation to anything related to human intelligence. One was my e-mail to Rvcx that he mentioned in the AE thread. It was sent directly to his e-mail address, not through the Misplaced Pages e-mail feature. The content of the e-mail was as follows:

Dear (name redacted),

I'm no longer banned from Misplaced Pages, and I'm helping a few other editors create a psychometrics task force in the psychology wikiproject to help improve Misplaced Pages's articles related to personality and intelligence. The task force is mostly set up at this point, so now we're contacting other people who might be interested in participating.

There isn't any specific article or editor I'm wanting you to pay attention to now; I just thought you might like to participate in that task force in general. Are you interested?

--(name redacted) / Captain Occam

The other e-mail that I sent was to user:BlackHades. This, too, was sent directly to his e-mail address, not through the Misplaced Pages e-mail feature.

Hi Blackhades,

Remember me? I'm wondering if you're still interested in editing Misplaced Pages. If you are, there's something going on there that I think you might like to participate in.

Just in case people are inclined to assume bad faith about what I meant, the "something going on" that I mentioned is the psychometrics task force. Like my e-mail to Rvcx, this e-mail did not discuss any of the articles from which I'm topic banned.

The reason I chose to send these messages via e-mail, instead of posting them on-wiki, was not because there was anything in them either of that I thought was worth hiding. It was because both editors had been inactive for a few years, and I thought that if I posted in their user talk they might not notice it.

This situation demonstrates one of the downsides of trying to enforce a topic ban over e-mail actions. Since none of you had actually seen the e-mails involved, it was easy for you to assume I was sending dozens of them and that they were a deliberate attempt to influence edits on articles from which I'm topic banned. I expect that even now that I've posted these, I'll most likely get indeffed anyway, but I hope other people reviewing this situation can recognize what was problematic about sanctioning me based on your assumptions about evidence that you weren't able to see. --Captain Occam (talk) 12:51, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Ferahgo the Assassin

Statement by Sandstein

I am one of the admins who have commented on the currently open WP:AE thread in which the enforcement of the topic ban applying to Captain Occam has been requested. I am concerned that this clarification request is intended to be an attempt to preempt or delay action on the enforcement request, which the participating admins so far have determined is warranted. I would appreciate it if arbitrators could indicate whether the enforcement request can be acted upon without regard to this clarification request. Sandstein 09:46, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

Statement by EdChem

CO notes that the discretionary sanctions from the race and intelligence arbitration case are defined as covering "the intersection of race/ethnicity and human abilities and behaviour, broadly construed." However, I don't think the follow-on claim that he had assumed that the scope of my topic ban was the same as the scope of the discretionary sanction is much of an excuse when the unban conditions were very clear:

The scope of his 2010 topic ban is modified from "race and intelligence related articles, broadly construed" to "the race and intelligence topic area, broadly construed".

and this was explicitly posted on his user talk page upon unbanning by Opabinia regalis. About 10 hours later, the notification posted onto his user talk page again by an ArbCom clerk, who then removed the duplication and uncollapsed OR's original post so that this is how his user talk page appeared. CO then archived the talk page and the notification is still present in archive 7 of his user talk page. Maybe CO forgot the terms of his unbanning. Maybe he did make an assumption of what the scope of his ban was. But, in either case, he received the notification – which was presumably also covered in off-wiki discussions of his site ban appeal with ArbCom – and if he truly believed that interfering even at the edges of the area of the case and topic ban was within the bounds of acceptable behaviour following his long site ban, then he deserves the sanction that must follow.

I have posted at AE on a subject related to the one Sandstein raises. If comments from BMK are to be believed, CO emailed to comment on edits in the R&I area, which certainly should be prohibited by the terms of his ban. If it is not covered by the letter of the rules, ArbCom should look at closing this hole in all of its topic bans. Even if it is not, however, the spirit of a topic ban after an ArbCom case and years of site banning must cover such actions. I think the following is appropriate:

• If ArbCom wants to take this situation on, BMK should be approached to provide the email directly to ArbCom for evaluation.
• ArbCom would then be in a position to decide whether the emails are sanctionable, and to also take on the diffs from the AE of alleged topic ban violation.
• Under this approach, I recommend ArbCom calling up the situation for determination and closing the AE. ArbCom has the authority to apply a block of longer than a month, or craft another response that seems warranted (including modifying the scope of the topic ban, if necessary), or even re-instituting the site ban.
• Alternatively, if ArbCom does not want to take over the situation, consideration should be given to closing the AE and moving to AN for a decision by the community. I agree with Sandstein that the authority of AE extends only to a block of one month, and I am not convinced that the options available at AE should be the only ones available. The community at AN could issue a ban, or impose another sanction, and a no consensus conclusion would not necessarily preclude an AE action from an administrator. The AE could be closed, for example, noting that a consensus of AE administrators is a one month block which is suspended for an AN discussion (allowing CO to participate) and that the block will be imposed at the end of the AN discussion unless the community reaches consensus to substitute some other action.
• If a change of venue is considered, I wonder whether Captain Occam would express a view on it being taken to AN or taken over by ArbCom at ARCA or left at AE, if it were up to him to choose?

EdChem (talk) 10:43, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

Statement by GoldenRing

I think it is worth noting that BMK has said that the original email from Captain Occam was not in itself particularly offensive, except that it dealt largely with a topic from which CO is banned, but that at the same time other users have come forward on the AE request to report similar email experiences with OC. This is a pattern of attempting to influence the R&I topic through email lobbying.

Such emails are not, on my reading, currently covered by topic bans; but it is looking likely (see the current state of the RFC CO links above) that policy will be amended to explicitly include use of Misplaced Pages email in the scope of bans. At the very least, the committee should wait and see what the outcome of the RFC is; if it clarifies policy either way then there is nothing for arbcom to do here.

As for this incident, it is looking likely that the AE will close with Captain Occam being indeffed as a normal admin action for disruption / NOTHERE. If that is the outcome, there is a lot of ground to cover between there and an appeal to the committee. GoldenRing (talk) 12:05, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

Statement by OID

The point of broad topic bans is to keep the editor away as far as possible from the topic. As it is clear Occam isnt interested in obeying the spirit of the ban from the topic, and you cannot monitor what he sends via the email this user feature, just disable his email access, reiterate the topic ban covers anything related to race & intelligence and let the AE action take its course. If he wants to pursue his R&I crusade offwiki, make it so he does it off-wiki. But he will keep doing it, as anyone with half a brain knew he was going to when he was unblocked. It really doesnt matter what restrictions you place, he will continute to try and further his agenda. All you are really doing is pushing the problem elsewhere. Only in death does duty end (talk) 14:54, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

Statement by TonyBallioni

Just noting for the committee that I closed the AE thread as an indefinite block as a regular admin action (not AE) per the emerging consensus there, and disabled access to email. TonyBallioni (talk) 15:56, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Beyond My Ken

It seems to me that by opening this ARCA, Captain Occam has given his tacit permission for the text of his first e-mail to me to be shared with the Committee if they decide to take this on. If I am correct in this assumption, I have no objection to this, and will forward it to the Commmittee in whatever way they desire. Beyond My Ken (talk) 17:46, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

I do have some questions which, if the Committee decides to deal with this Clarification, may or may not be pertinent: If Captain Occam didn't think that putting together a task force to patrol articles relating to psychometics wasn't a potential violation of his topic ban, and if the purpose of the task force was innocuous -- i.e. not to push a hereditarian POV, but simply to put articles into good order -- why was there a need to contact editors via e-mail? Why the secrecy? Why not simply post the invitation on their user talk pages? Was Captain Occam afraid that doing so would reveal that he was inviting only editors of a certain POV, or that a public invitation would attract the "wrong" kind of editor to the task force? Or was he concerned that such a public invitation would reveal that he was intending to delve into a subject matter very closely related to "race and intelligence", and that someone might raise questions about that, so he wanted to get the task force set up and running before that happened? Again, why the need for screcy? Beyond My Ken (talk) 18:21, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

Statement by {other-editor}

Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should opine whether and how the Committee should clarify or amend the decision or provide additional information.

Race and intelligence: Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

• Recuse due to involvement at AE. GoldenRing (talk) 11:55, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

Race and intelligence: Arbitrator views and discussion

• Mildly, the full advice from a member of Arbcom (me) was that while you could post this request here, it would probably be better not to, and instead to go edit some of the five million other en-WP articles on totally unrelated topics like fish, or joinery, or medieval art. Still reckon that's good advice, this arca request notwithstanding. -- Euryalus (talk) 10:14, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

@Sandstein: other views welcome, but I don't personally see a reason to delay the closing of the AE thread if it's otherwise time to do so. This arca can be resolved independently of the AE outcome. -- Euryalus (talk) 10:27, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

• Agree with Euryalus on both accounts, noting that if we make a clarification that makes clear the editor did not violate their topic ban, they can always appeal at AE noting the new information. As far as the substance of the request, it seems clear that this is a topic ban of "race and intelligence", meaning the article must contain information about both aspects to be included under the scope. It seems unlikely the Committee intended to separately topic ban the editor from both race and (separately) intelligence. ~ Rob₁₃ 13:18, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
• Captain Occam has been indefinitely blocked at AE. Please see Special:Permalink/834221440#Captain_Occam. Mkdw 16:04, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
• This request is moot as long as Captain Occam remains blocked. (I haven't reviewed the block.) If he is ever unblocked, he has indicated he will stay away from the areas at issue, which is a good idea, and so the request will still be moot. Under the circumstances I don't think we need to spend time on this. Newyorkbrad (talk) 15:26, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
• With Captain Occam's indef block, I do not see any reason for the committee to look into this issue at this time. RickinBaltimore (talk) 15:50, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
• I agree with Nyb. Captain Occam's blocked, he says he'll stay away from the areas, so we're finished. Doug Weller talk 15:51, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
• Moot given the block per above. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 16:48, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

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