Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Xoloz (talk | contribs) at 15:10, 27 October 2006 (→Existing practices: good idea). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

No thanks

Hmmm, no-one's started discussing this, so I guess it's up to me to do the honours (-: Anyway, I don't think this is a good idea. The reason is that new and unregistered users are far from being a uniform, monolithic horde of trolls, vandals, and spammers. In fact, according to the available data, they write most of Misplaced Pages's content. If we want the encyclopedia to continue to grow, our policies need to continue to be amenable to these new users, and an important part of that is allowing new users to edit them. Even if they often don't have anything constructive to add, it's easy to revert dumb contributions. On the other hand, I think it's highly unconstructive to call ourselves "the encyclopedia that anyone can edit" and then put off-bounds important parts of the project. JYolkowski // talk 22:25, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

I do not claim that "new and unregistered users are... a uniform, monolithic horde of trolls, vandals, and spammers." Rather, this proposal is based on an obvious (and presently undisputed) claim that new and unregistered users are unlikely to be able to determine whether there is consensus for their changes to official policies. Preventing vandalism is therefore a quite compelling justification for semi-protection of official policies if new and unregistered users are unlikely to be able to improve official policies, even when they are editing in good faith. The statement that Misplaced Pages is "the encyclopedia that anyone can edit" means that Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia in which most people can edit most articles. However, many other "important parts of the project" are far more restricted in editing than official policy pages would be under my proposal. For instance, even most established users cannot edit the main page, nor can they edit high-risk templates. Consequently, there is no need to assume that the statement that Misplaced Pages is "the encyclopedia that anyone can edit" implies that Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia in which anyone can unilaterally alter official policies with which they disagree. Indeed, I would argue that our present system of allowing new and unregistered users to directly edit official policies essentially entraps such users into editing the policies against a consensus of which they are wholly unaware. The experience of having their good faith edits to official policies unceremoniously reverted, and of being warned and blocked if they persist in reinserting them is likely to encourage many new and unregistered users to leave Misplaced Pages. So, if new and unregistered users write most of Misplaced Pages's content, we should encourage them to continue to edit articles by preventing them from editing official policies.

I don't think that there's a snowball's chance in heck of many new and unregistered users feeling "left out" of the policy making process and leaving Misplaced Pages if all official policy pages are semi-protected. After all, new and unregistered users hardly seem discouraged from editing by the fact that they may not vote in requests for adminship. Similarly, since Misplaced Pages administrators are concerned with the interests of new and unregistered users despite the inability of such users to vote in requests for adminship, there is no reason to assume that Misplaced Pages policies will become biased against new and unregistered users if such users may not directly edit them. John254 00:19, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

What about people like User:68.39.174.238?--MrFish 13:35, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

User:68.39.174.238 could create an account. Or, barring such a drastic measure, he could propose edits to official policies on their talk pages. Almost all established editors edit with accounts. While User:68.39.174.238 is welcome to continue editing as an unregistered user, by doing so he is necessarily giving up certain privileges that are normally afforded to established users -- not the least of which are directly creating non-talk pages, directly moving pages, voting in RFA's, and the possibility of becoming an administrator himself. John254 00:18, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good to me

I can't really imagine any reason an anon or brand-new user would have to edit the core set of policy pages anwyay. They've all been gone over enough that there's few if any typos and such. And of course the talk pages are always open if anyone feels like proposing anything. I see a good deal of potential benefit to this and frankly very little harm. It has my support. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 02:53, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

• I'm inclined to agree with the previous poster. New users' changes to policy pages seem mostly to be vandalism or "remove the reason somebody used to delete my pet article". Where a legitimate suggestion comes up, it really should go through the talk page anyway, to leave a not-paper trail establishing consensus or documenting reasons for opposition. Barno 17:58, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Regardless of the above proposal, it is absolutely not a requirement that changes to policy pages be discussed beforehand. This is a widely-held but incorrect belief. The only requirement is that changes not be made that don't reflect consensus, and new and unregistered users are quite capable of making such changes. JYolkowski // talk 22:16, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
    • That would be something that applies to both long term users and new users, so that's not really the issue here. The issue here is the access new or unregistered users have. This is no different in how page moves are restricted for new and unregistered users. I completely agree with the rational of this proposal and support it. -- Ned Scott 00:15, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
    • It is true that "it is... not a requirement that changes to policy pages be discussed beforehand." However, the determination of whether there is consensus for changes to official policy without prior discussion is an exceptionally fine art that new and unregistered users are extraordinarily unlikely to have mastered. Indeed, even many changes to official policies by established users should be discussed prior to implementation. New and unregistered users are well advised to propose any changes to official policies. John254 00:21, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Existing practices

The logs for the semi-protection policy itself show that two administrators have attempted to permanently semi-protect the policy, but one administrator has reverted them. There appears to be a substantial interest in the semi-protection of official policy pages on a continuous basis, which is being obstructed by adherence to the current language of the semi-protection policy. John254 00:51, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

This is a "no-brainer"

It is a fundamental rule of Wiki-hood that our policy pages are editable, but there is no reason they should editable to newbies and anons. Anons with experience, or amazing ideas, who are unwilling to register -- as is their right -- can always make proposals on policy talk pages; if these proposals are meritorious, any non-newbie registered editor may add them in short order. I don't think every policy page necessarily needs immediate semi-protection (there are many of them, and some aren't regularly edited), but where a history of troublesome edits exists, invoking permanent semi-protection should be within the discretion of any admin. In short, I support this. Xoloz 15:10, 27 October 2006 (UTC)