User talk:Eupator - Misplaced Pages

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Archives
User_talk:Eupator/Archive 1 (18 May 2006) User_talk:Eupator/Archive 2 (25 July 2006) User_talk:Eupator/Archive 3 (8 September 2006)

Image

I changed the image, how does it look now? -- Clevelander 20:19, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Armenian rebellions?

Have you seen this? -- Clevelander 23:45, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Image:Armenia2005Summer 011.jpg listed for deletion

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Talk:Armenians

Hi, I think you should stop blanking on Talk:Armenians. One more revert, and you'll have violated the 3RR (which may be what C wants).--Tekleni 16:00, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Did you see this?--Tekleni 16:46, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Ayo ;-) --Tekleni 16:51, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Armenia

Hi there, I am following up on the edit warring at Armenia and its accompanying talk page. Whatever your issues are there, it is generally disruptive to remove other editors' comments from the Talk page, and it is considered vandalism. I realize that you stated that you were removing vandalism and "racist trash", but in my outside view, the user Calgvla was trying to discuss his point of view.

Please remember to assume good faith in your fellow editors, and do not remove comments from a Talk page unless they are blatant vandalism or personal attacks. Misplaced Pages has several channels for dispute resolution that you can use instead. Sound good? --Aguerriero (talk) 20:54, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry but none of the phrases you are quoting are in the text you were blanking on Talk:Armenia. I see it now on Talk:Armenians, which I did not look at until now. As it stood, I only reviewed the recent conduct that Tekleni reported; I did not thoroughly review all of his contributions. I understand that you dislike the user, and agree that blatantly racist remarks should be removed. His recent remarks at Talk:Armenia that you removed did not seem blatantly racist to me.

At any rate, I have discussed with him his options for dispute resolution that do not involved edit-warring. I will reiterate to you that if you have a problem with this user's conduct, which you obviously do, you should go through the regular channels of dispute resolution instead of taking it upon yourself to remove his contributions. --Aguerriero (talk) 22:06, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

I suspected as much. The goal of my dialog with him is to help him understand that this type of citation, and indeed this type of ideology, is incompatible with Misplaced Pages. He may indeed have useful contributions to make to the encyclopedia, but these are not they. --Aguerriero (talk) 17:07, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Warned to stop. I am watching both accounts - if the pattern continues, appropriate action will be taken. Please let me know if you notice any other alternate accounts or disruptive behavior. --Aguerriero (talk) 18:20, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Re:Calgvla

Will do! It looks like this guy just can't take a hint. He continues to attempt to post racist and offensive pictures of Armenians and assert that Armenia is a Middle Eastern nation. -- Clevelander 02:40, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

What the...?: Image:No-armenia.jpg -- Clevelander 17:42, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

I have deleted that image per G-10 of the criteria for speedy deletion.--Aguerriero (talk) 18:23, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Personal remarks

Please avoid making negative personal characterizations of your fellow editors. It's one thing to say that someone is promoting racist ideas, but it's another to say that they are a racist. Even if they are, please don't engage in personal attacks. Focus on the edits, not the editors. -Will Beback 20:40, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Font

Out of curiosity, has the font size and spacing on Misplaced Pages changed?--MarshallBagramyan 00:36, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

What browser do you use IE, Firefox, Opera, etc?--MarshallBagramyan 02:08, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Strange, its the reverse for me--MarshallBagramyan 02:13, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Really interesting

Hi that was really interesting about visiting all those countries. You are definitely well informed. --alidoostzadeh 01:32, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

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!

hoping something can be done on this: http://en.wikipedia.org/Defense_of_Van#April.2C_19

Smt

Have you seen this?--Tekleni 20:53, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Also (a pre-emptive reminder) don't bother violating the 3RR on that page, it's not worth it. All users with that page on their watchlist will surely have already watchlisted Armenia and Armenians, so will be very aware of the problem and its extent :-/ --Tekleni 20:55, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

And this.--Tekleni 21:14, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

He already did--Caligvla 21:20, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing me to that. No he hasn't violated it.--Tekleni 21:23, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Apparently...

I'm your sock puppet. Does that mean I get free room and board? I like ice cream and satin sheets.--Roboczar 00:27, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Azeris in Turkey

Have you seen this article? It says that "many Muslim residents of then newly independent Armenia fled to the Turkish-controlled lands, escaping massacres by armed bands of Armenian nationalists." Also keep an eye on the Caucasian Albania article. -- Clevelander 01:08, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:POINT

These are your kind of games not mine! But once again, I like to extend an olive branch and discuss the issues in a calm setting.--Caligvla 01:11, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Caucasus Albania

Sorry about that, I got confused. You are right, it is only the north eastern part.Khosrow II 03:55, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Armenia

I have unprotected Armenia. I am watching the page for disruptions, and have posted to the Talk page asking for editors to discuss any disputed changes before making them. --Aguerriero (talk) 17:51, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi, could you go to Special:Preferences and set, confirm and enable an e-mail address.--Tekleni 17:52, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't seem to be working. Once you've entered an e-mail address, wikipedia will send you an e-mail with a link for you to click (so they know it's a real e-mail); if you haven't received such an e-mail, click here. Then you have to go to Special:Preferences and click the "Enable e-mail from other users" tickbox.--Tekleni 17:58, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

The idea here is that I can e-mail you by going to Special:Emailuser/Eupator and you can e-mail me by going to Special:Emailuser/Tekleni. For it to work, both of us have to have confirmed our e-mail addresses (I already have for some time now...).--Tekleni 17:59, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Hey, one more thing. Would you mind using edit summaries when you edit the Armenia article and Talk page? It makes it easier for me to monitor the page when I can somewhat see what people are doing by looking at edit summaries. :) --Aguerriero (talk) 18:05, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Could you check your mailbox.--Tekleni 18:06, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Suny revisited

Did you ever find those articles on Grigor Suny that GM gave you? -- Clevelander 20:01, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Et heemaruh eera anunuh avelatsrel Viki-pedia Hayastani edgee vra. Toggnek mnah teh el eeran ktsenk dourse?--MarshallBagramyan 04:03, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Intchbess gessess Anklerenov? Forgive me, my Armenian's a bit rusty. -- Clevelander 11:04, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Thank you

Howdy, Eupator. Many thanks for the award. I really appreciate it. Cheers, Kober 04:45, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Can we agree to this?

"Culturally, historically and politically Armenia is considered part of Europe and Asia, however the official geographic classification of the country varies according to different sources. As a result, Armenia is sometimes seen as a transcontinental nation."

and put it back to it's original location in the Geography section...

Eastern Armenian

I know a little bit of both eastern and western Armenian, but mostly western. My grandfather and his family lived in Constantinople but moved to Romania during the Genocide (because, as my father told me, the "writing was on the wall"). During World War II, my grandfather was forced to serve in the Romanian army in the Axis assault on the Soviet Union. During the war, he deserted the army, but was captured by the Soviets. While in prison, he noticed that two of his guards were singing in Armenian, not his dialect, but a different one (eastern). He was able to persuade them to help him escape and afterwards, they taught him some eastern Armenian. Thus, some of the phrases that he learned were passed down and so I, while being mostly a native English speaker, can speak some (limited) eastern and western Armenian. -- Clevelander 20:48, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately, as far as I know, all the stuff he had from WWII was taken away from him by the communists. You see what happened was, he returned to Romania after the war (he was encouraged by his new friends to go with his wife (my grandmother) to Soviet Armenia, but my grandfather, who was both anti-facist and anti-communist felt that moving to the USSR would be like "just in the frying pan and into the fire"). Instead, he returned to Bucharest and found his wife to be pregnant with his child (my father). In 1945, my father was born and my family stayed in Romania. By the late-1950s however, my father was getting tired of the Romanian communist government who was then ruling the country. He was sent in for questioning almost every night by the Romanian "KGB" and my grandmother and father worried every night if he would even return. He was fed-up, so he and my family decided to leave. The government allowed them to go because, being Armenians, they were seen as foreigners. In turn, almost all of their possessions were turned over to the state and that's why there isn't anything left of my grandfather's WWII service.

I would like to go to Armenia someday. I haven't been there before (or to any other country in the South Caucasus for that matter). I would also love to see Karabakh and Georgia too. -- Clevelander 08:33, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Armenian Boy

Why don't you like the image, it's a very nice photo, nothing could possibly be found offensive with it? I am sure the Armenian board of tourism would love to have it! You were told not to make blanket deletions, so please stop!--Caligvla 02:09, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Caligvla

Can you provide some examples of the trolling/sockpuppetry that you mentioned, other than what I am aware of at Armenia? --Aguerriero (talk) 04:31, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

As usual he can't--Caligvla 19:58, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

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Question

May I ask, just for the sake of curiosity, what you have against the phrase, "Culturally, historically and politically Armenia is considered part of Europe and Asia" other than the fact that Caligvla suggested it? I haven't reviewed any of his sources, but is it your position that there are no reliable sources that might state that Armenia is part of Asia culturally, historically, or politically?

If Caligvla seeks mediation, the mediator is likely to ask why you don't consider this a neutral statement. --Aguerriero (talk) 20:27, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply - I started this out not knowing a thing about Armenia other than its general location. I am learning a lot! --Aguerriero (talk) 02:50, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

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Caligvla

Hello there! While I understand your frustration with Caligvla, I cannot support indiscriminate reverting of his contributions to Armenia and other articles. If something is obvious vandalism or trolling, yes. If something is disputed, it should be discussed on the article Talk page (unless it has already been discussed and consensus formed, then revert). For other kinds of edits, I expect them to stand. I have asked Caligvla to consider stopping editing Armenia-related articles for a while, but that is his decision at this point. Thanks and let me know if you have any questions. --Aguerriero (talk) 14:50, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Wikilink

Sorry about the wikilink, I am a long time reader but new editor. Are you a SysOp? --Hamparzoum 16:11, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Where can I help?--Hamparzoum 17:20, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Ah, haha, sorry but I am the 3rd generation in the UK. My grandparents on my mom's side spoke Armenian (Western, I think) but like most Armenians of their generation they couldn't read or write. I never meet my father's parents. When our family came to the UK, they really wanted us to fit in, so I grew up with only English in the house. Such a shame. Where are you from?--Hamparzoum 18:44, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

WWI

Something you may want to look into, in the Participants of WWI, Armenia is listed, but it shows the current flag, should it be changed?--Hamparzoum 23:58, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the info, not a history buff, so thought I would ask you first, I was looking at your contribs and you have a long list, so I thought I would check in with you first.--Hamparzoum 00:18, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Muchas gracias

Hey Eupator, thanks a lot for supporting me in my recent RfA. It succeeded, and I am very grateful to all of you. If you ever need help with anything, please don't hesitate to ask. Also, feel free point out any mistakes I make! Thanks again, —Khoi khoi 04:41, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Keep an eye on...

Keep an eye on User:Nixer. He is an ally of Caligvla and is trying to prove that Armenia is not a European country on the Armenia talk page. He also is a sockpuppet of a user attempting to evade a block. -- Clevelander 18:26, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

RE:

Thanks for the link, I typically use Amazon's search tool but will see what this yields.--MarshallBagramyan 19:34, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

, I was unable to edit some of the text on this one, but I personally like it more . --MarshallBagramyan 03:47, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Greetings returned

Thank you so much for your note about Podnieks, he was a true embodiment of the Latvian spirit. Though in truth that spirit of pride in one's origins is a tradition that most of us all have in common. And where I have friends here who have been "mixed" over the generations, they have found new meanings in searching out their roots, understanding that where they come from is an important part of who they are. I have to say that it was curiosity that drew me to the Armenian "problem" (being embroiled in a mediation, I was looking to see what else is out there and if my problems were typical), but as I read through it, there were many things that resonated with my own personal experiences. (For all of my life until my mid-30's, for example, "Latvians are Russians because Latvia is part of Russia.") And so, into the fray! :-) —Pēters J. Vecrumba 23:52, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks!

Thanks for the award! -- Clevelander 20:27, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Ottoman Empire article

From the Ottoman Empire article:

A significant event in this conflict was the creation of an Armenian resistance movement in the province of Van. The core Armenian resistance group formed an independent provisional government in May 1915, prompting the Ottoman government to accuse the Armenians of being in collaboration with the invading Russian forces in eastern Anatolia, against their native state. The Armenian militia and Armenian volunteer units were also part of this nationalist movement. At the end of 1917 the Armenian Revolutionary Federation formed the Democratic Republic of Armenia. -- Clevelander 09:59, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for reverting Nixer pestering my talk page. He is simply angry as I reported his 3RR violation 2 days ago and his block recently expired. With his history he deserves a longer block next time, IMO. --Lysy 20:42, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for the tip! :) -- Clevelander 19:42, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Question

Hey Eup, just wondering (and I asked this to some of our Armenian colleagues) but do you think that Armenia will ever reclaim any of its territory from Turkey? -- Clevelander 20:17, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

My opinion: No - just in the same way Greeks or anyone else won't. This is the effect of ethnic cleansing and genocide - the "undesireable" population is displaced, so those territories are primarily inhabited by Turks to whom the right of self-determination applies: if they want to remain part of Turkey and not Armenia, that should be respected.--Tekleni 08:50, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

That's a good point. Reclaiming teritory cannot be done sans ethnic cleansing and that's not going to happen unless there's WWIII or some other catastrophe. Even if we consider that a good number of "Turks" are essentially Turkified Greeks, Armenians, Serbs and descendants of Janissaries and that via rehabilitation some could rejoin their actual kin there would still be millions of "undesirables".--Eupator 15:29, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Also Eupator, check this out.--Tekleni 08:50, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I actually think that eventually yes, someday there will be a chance for Armenia to regain some of its lost territory from Turkey (perhaps not the grand Wilsonian Armenia but at least some of those areas in northeastern Turkey that were lost in the Kars treaty (Kars, Ardahan, Artvin, and Igdir)). Unlike the former Greek regions of Asia Minor, I think it would also be easy for Armenia to regain some of these provinces because of how sparsely populated they are. Look at the Ardahan Province for example. It occupies an area of 5,495 km² and has a population of 133,756 total. Now compare that to the Armavir province in Armenia which is 1,242 km² and has a total population of 255,861. Also note that in Ardahan, the majority of the population isn't even Turkish (Kurds and Georgians make up the big numbers here). Another area of interest is the Van Province which is 20,927 km² and has a total population of 877,524, the majority of which are Kurds who are opposed to Turkish rule. The whole of the RA is 29,800 km² (slightly larger than the Van Province itself) and contains a total population of 3,215,800. Interesting, eh? Maybe I'm just an optimistic Armenian.

However, I agree with both you and Marshall that it would be awhile before Armenia would even get to the point of considering what provinces in Turkey they would want to incorporate. Unfortunately, we are pretty divided community when it comes to certain points and there are still those unresolved issues of Karabakh and Genocide recognition. -- Clevelander 12:24, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

You think it's better that Kurds live there now? Chances of regaining those lands would be much higher had they been populated by Turks and not Kurds.--Eupator 15:29, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

...at least the Kurds recognize that the Genocide happened. The Turks don't even do that. In fact, some of those interviewed in the PBS special recounting the Genocide are Kurds. I would also say that the Kurds seem to have developed some sympathy towards Armenians as now they know what it's like to be persecuted. -- Clevelander 17:15, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

True, but it's not like they did it because they're so deeply sorry it's just that they need our support. On a long term basis they are still the biggest obstacle.--Eupator 17:56, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree, they do present an obstacle if Armenia were to reunite herself with her former Ottoman provinces. In fact, the PKK Kurds might even turn to revolt against the Armenians. Anyway, my point about areas like Ardahan being sparsely populated is that they could be easily resettled by Armenians. -- Clevelander 19:21, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

We can discuss this endlessly...but my ideal scenario is a common border with Greece (with a border along "Ankara") and nothing in between :)--Eupator 21:10, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree completely. :) -- Clevelander 22:45, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

From Gligan

It seems quite strange for me that you suppert the unification of romania and Moldova. romania itself should not exist because it consists of Transilvania, which is Hungarian; Wallachia, whose population is very similar to the Bulgarians; Dobrudzha, which is completely Bulgarian; and Moldavia which may go to Moldova. romania is an artifitial country with less than 200 years of history and to my mind it is better to desintegrate and join Bulgaria and Hungary. You mai instead support the unification of Bulgaria and Macedonia: all the historical evidence support that:)--Gligan 19:42, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Barev! I am glad to hear that you do not recognize Macedonia, but it should not be divided between Bulgaria and Serbia, because it is a truely Bulgarian territory one of the centres of Bulgarian culture. I don't know whether i will bore you but i can prove it. It is quite simple in the Middle ages- Macedonia was almost constantly part of my country, while it was conquered by the serbs only once (under stefan dushan) and they held it for less than 30 years. By the way the same have a direct bearing on the lands east of the Morava river in serbia.

From the 19th century the serbs wanted to rule over the Southern Slavs and they had only one problem-the Bulgarians were more as population. Under the pressure of the western states (who were afraid of BG), after the Liberation of Bulgaria in 1878 its initial territory was divided and Macedonia remained in Turkey. Up to this moment the majority of population considered themselves as Bulgarians. The serbs started a massive cultural, educational and press campaign to make them think they were serbs (with little success). In the Second Balkan War serbia and greece betrayed Bulgaria, trying to grab Macedonia and Thrace for themselves. Their armies were both defeated in the battlefield but the treachorous invasion of romania saved them, the war was lost (without losing a single battle) and Macedonia along with it. Then, already in serbian territory this campaign turned into horrible terror with thousands killed and 200 000 refugees to Bulgaria. Again without much success. After the serbs convinced themselves that these efforts are useless, they invented the Macedonians and the Macedonian language, and after tens of years of terror, the population there began to think they are Macedonians. Even now there is a press war against Bulgaria in Macedonia, because otherwise it will inevitably join Bulgaria. This story is very short and simplified, but i have neither time nor good enough knowledge of english to offer you something better.

I wish Armenia the best of luck. I hope it will return its territories in Turkey and Azerbeidzan:)--Gligan 21:35, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Could you please check your e-mail.--Tekleni 18:34, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Blocked

You have been blocked for 31 hours for your recent incivility on various user talk pages and your behavior at Talk:Origin of the Armenians. You baited User:Craig Thomasian into a 3RR violation with your clearly inappropriate "totally disputed" tag, and reported him immediately after he removed it. Your level of discourse is totally incivil and you have given ample evidence lately to suggest that you feel justified in this type of behavior. It is not justified, see WP:CIVIL and WP:AGF. Mango juice 20:23, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

The accusation of baiting is subjective, that implies that I reverted for the sole purpose of forcing the other user to break the 3RR, I have no control over another users actions. Also why was the tag inappropriate? How can it be inappropirate if the content of the section and the motivation behind it is disputed? Before I request unblock though I would like to see diffs regarding the aforementioned recent incivility.--Eupator 20:32, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Here are some: , (which you apparently continue to believe is reasonable behavior), (WP:AGF violation for sure), and then your 3RR report. Keep in mind that merely keeping your language civil doesn't mean that you're actually being civil: your 3RR report was designed to get someone blocked because you disagreed with their edits. On top of all that, you didn't violate 3RR yourself, but you were gaming it by skirting 3RR just enough that it wouldn't apply to you. But in the end, you were edit warring and that's what the 3RR is really about, so you can consider that part of the reason as well. I agree "baiting" is subjective, but I know it when I see it. There was a source given that you couldn't take on faith for even 1 day while you tried to read it... and totallydisputed is an especially harsh tag given the circumstances, designed to provoke a response. You had a concern about sourcing: you never brought up any NPOV concerns other than that. Mango juice 20:55, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't understand what's wrong with the first and third diff? How is that even borderline uncivil concerning the very strong personal attack I received from that user(caligvla) just moments before that? As for the anicent incident in the second link, I was warned by an administrator and have since apologized, how is that even appropriate to bring that up? Of course, I disagreed with the edits. Why else would I bother to report the user for 3RR? I mean I don't just go around random articles looking for people breaking 3RR's? Now, you're saying I should have taken the purported source on faith. My concern regarding the source was legitimate as it was not verifiable, for something that controversial the source needs to be very clear and easiliy accessible. Now I use the web for a long time and I was unable to locate it, what about the casual reader? As for NPOV, the user and I had prior encounters on Talk:Armenia that led me to assume that his motivation behind adding that "source" is far from being honest or neutral. Why don't you think that section was added there to bait me in the first place? Despite that I still attempted to check the source and did not blindly revert.--Eupator 21:09, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I'm going to reverse this. I think it's clear you understand what civility is all about, actually: and there was greater context I was missing. I do think you handled yourself badly in that 3RR situation. I went to the site, and I couldn't find the specific data the other guy was referring to: I think he had some raw data to back up the conclusions, but that's not appropriate by WP:OR. Still, the research paper could have been used as a source, but instead of changing the source, you just blanked the whole section. I brought up the old diff because it looked like you were still defending it, and I saw no apology on that user's talk page. Anyway, the block will be removed shortly. Mango juice 21:15, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Well I guess you're right, but for the last couple of weeks I have been dealing with a lot here which is taking its toll on me. After so many sockpuppets I'm not even sure who's a legitimate new user and who is not, who actually believes in their edits and who's pushing a pov. For neutral background info, you can consult your colleague Aguerriero.--Eupator 21:24, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

I can understand that kind of frustration (see my favorite example). I would say, just try to keep a cool head and assume good faith, because there are probably some sockpuppets but some good faith users, and it's more important how you treat the real users. And remember, it's never a big deal if an article remains in a state you don't like for a little while. Anyway, good luck. Mango juice 21:39, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Armenia in Europe

I am a member of the AMA (Association of Members' Advocates) currently acting on behalf of User:Caligvla, who has named you as one of the participants in the dispute over whether Armenia is in Europe or Asia. Caligvla has listed a number of reference sources classifying Armenia as an Asian country. He claims that the only sources quoted by your side of the dispute are 1.) an obsecure Canadian website that places Armenia in Europe, and a BBC article that mistakenly places Armenia in Europe. Can you please respond to this and give your side of the argument (preferably on my userpage)? Under the AMA principle of audi alteram partem, you have the right to be heard. (NB Copies of this message have been placed on the talkpage of all those who Caligvla has named as participants in the dispute.) Walton monarchist89 09:24, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm sure that there are plenty of sources to disprove Caligvla, Nixer, and anyone else who questions Armenia as a European nation. -- Clevelander 11:20, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your response on my talk page, User:Eupator. I appreciate the fact that you have provided sources supporting your side of the dispute. As Armenia is a member of the Council of Europe, this indicates that politically they may be considered a part of Europe. It now appears to me that the weight of evidence is roughly equal on both sides. The trouble with the whole Misplaced Pages process is that, in almost all disputes, it is possible to locate sources to support both sides of the argument, which sends us 'back to square one' as far as the whole dispute-resolution process is concerned. The only solution I can see is to edit all the disputed articles to add something along the lines of: Some authorities consider Armenia an Asian country, due to its geographical position and the historical relationship of Armenians to Asian peoples. However, Armenia is part of the Council of Europe, and is now considered part of Europe for some purposes. Armenians themselves disagree about whether their country is Asian or European. Do you agree with this as an acceptable form of phrasing? Walton monarchist89 10:46, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

In relation to the dispute under Talk:Origin of the Armenians, I have checked out this page, and Caligvla stated that he only added that source for a joke. While Wikistress may get to all of us at times, and I appreciate that writing an encyclopedia is a serious endeavour, I think we should all try to keep a sense of humour. Walton monarchist89 10:46, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Augustgrahl

Hey Eup, I would tend to side with you on your disputes against Craig Thomasian and Caligvla, but I find this comment directed against User:Augustgrahl to be disturbing. You speak of Armenians being divided, but yet you seem to do little to encourage Armenian unity. Augustgrahl has been very helpful towards WikiProject Armenia and I find it "retarded" that you would go after him like this. If you disagreed with one of his viewpoints, then you should have been more civil about it, especially, I would think, towards one of your own compatriots. At the very least, I recommend that you aplologize for the way you worded that statement. -- Clevelander 11:15, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

When he added that, I don't think he meant to make that point. It seemed as though he was trying to say that Turks like Slavs and Germanic peoples have subgroups among them. Looking back, he probably neglected to read most of the preceding text. I'm sure if when asked, he'd tell you quite the opposite about the Turks. -- Clevelander 21:35, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I see you resolved the situation. Excellent! Kindest regards, Clevelander 21:54, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

BTW,

I have the Origin of the Armenians article on my watchlist. -- Clevelander 21:58, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Because I just wanted to let you know that I have your back. In the case that Craig Thomasian or Caligvla reverts this article, then I'll revert it back. -- Clevelander 00:17, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Trolling

Regarding edits such as this, commenting on another editor in such a fasion is not acceptable. There is nothing wrong with disputing his content, but accusations such a your 'nazi literature' one are clearly out of line. Keep it civil, and keep it on content. --InShaneee 16:27, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

First of all, he's not my colleague. He's just an editor who is finding your attitude abusive. Secondly, simply calling his source 'nazi literature' accomplishes nothing but insulting the source and the editor. If you think it's inaccurate, just saw how. --InShaneee 16:49, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

No, the point still remains. Running around telling everyone that it's 'nazi literature', whether it's true or not, doesn't solve anything. You're saying nothing about its accuracy, and are simply trying to smear it and its poster. Be more civil, and stop badgering this user. --InShaneee 17:40, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, knock it off. As right as you are, you have to be neutral about EVERYTHING here. Saying 'its from the Nazis' doesn't automatically make it wrong, although you could use that to argue that the source is biased. Just be more civil about this. --InShaneee 17:47, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

No, it's not. Going around 'informing' other users that someone is wrong is what's really out of line. --InShaneee 18:41, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

It's not your place to say whether the user has any 'motivation' behind his comments are not. Keep all discussion on the subject of the articles. --InShaneee 18:51, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

This isn't one of those cases. Motivation must be very, VERY clear for WP:POINT, and it most certainly isn't here. No, you never get to 'expose' anyone's motivation. We're here to write an encyclopedia, and you must focus on article content if you wish to remain. --InShaneee 19:54, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

It wasn't a threat, it was a warning. All users are required to focus on content, not other users, yourself included. --InShaneee 20:05, 3 November 2006 (UTC)