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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by NisarKand (talk | contribs) at 15:33, 13 November 2006 (→Map? and Ethnic Populations). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Were the original inhabitants ArIans or ArYans? As the former is asserted between two paragraphs talking about 500 BC and the 4th century Alexander the Great, I'd be very surprised if it were true, unless there are time-travelling Christian missionaries involved. So I'm guessing they were either Aryan or else the reference needs to be moved to a later spot in the chronology. -- Paul Drye

Just thought that a gallery would better serve this article.--Zereshk 06:22, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

I go to Herat at least 3 or 4 times every year. From my observation...Tajiks (approximately half Shia and half Sunni) and Pashtuns (mostly originating from Kandahar area) appear as 50%/50%. Most people in the city speak Herati (localized Persian language). In other words, Herati is the official language of the city. Pashto is also spoken among some of the Pashtuns, although most Pashtuns rather speak Herati. This confuses the westerners, assuming all those that speak Herati are Tajiks. Anyone who is Afghan and familiar with Herat will tell you that Pashtuns make up the second largest population. User:NisarKand November 11, 2006

Map? and Ethnic Populations

What map? The map of ethnic populations in Afghanistan with the main article? The scale is not sufficient for the municipality, if that is the map you think is used. Why not put this on the talk page for the article and discussion instead, or ask for a reference? KP Botany 21:51, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

User NisarKand is claiming that "Pashtuns are the second largest ethnic group in Herat", and he have this map as a reference (see here). Beside that fact that no other source actually mentiones the second largest group in Herat (who could be Pashtuns, but also Hazaras or Turkmen), the a map can never be a proof for such a claim, because it does not show the number of speakers but only the geographical range of a certain language.

There is no need to discuss this. It is a wrong source, and the claim has no base. NisarKand should discuss the issue before editing the article.

Tājik 21:57, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

You are not providing any data or sources that refute what NisarKand has backed up with the data he has provided, you simply say "there is no need to discuss this. It is a wrong source, and the claim has no base." You do not even say what is correct. Nothing, not what is right, not how or why it's wrong, simply that it is wrong. This is not an argument against the data, but simply your pushing your POV.

Herat is an important world city, so it would be useful to research the underlying statistics and add them to the article--maybe Human Rights Watch has the data, or researchers at UNOmaha (theirs may even be on-line), or researchers at the American University of Afghanistan may be able to answer questions about the current demographics of Herat. Until then, NisarKand has bothered to provide a reputable source, and you have not provided a source contradicting it, or alternative information, but have merely provided your point of view that the source and NisarKand are wrong.

Statistical data can be validly presented in graphs of all sorts, including maps. This map presents the information within the limits of its scale that metropolitan Herat is a city with two major ethnolinguistic groups.

The article still needs a lot more work to be current and useful, rather than an edit war. KP Botany 00:23, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

KP Botany, the problem with YOU is that you stubbornly and blindly support all the nonsense propagated by NisarKand. You did this in the article Afghanistan, and you are doing it here.

A map is NEVER a source, because it does not provide numbers. I could also say that "Chinese and Swahili are the thrid and fourth numerous languages in Herat" ... Will you be able to disprove this?!

It's not my job to find sources for NisarKand's (and your) nonsense ... YOU have to provide realiable sources BEFORE you edit the article and put nationalistic POV in it (and NisarKand is MOST DEFFINITLY a Pashtun nationalist ... he is neither an expert on Afghanistan, nor a scholar!).

He should have provided a better map, for example this one: This one includes NUMBERS and it clearly states that Tajiks are the majority in both Herat and Kabul. In Herat, Tajiks are 85% of the population, Pashtuns being only 10% ... There is absolutely no reason to include the number of Pashtuns into the article - and especially not in the intro! There are more Tajiks in Kandahar than Pashtuns in Herat or Ghazni! In a previous comment NisarKand stated that from his own "observation...Tajiks (approximately half Shia and half Sunni) and Pashtuns (mostly originating from Kandahar area) appear as 50%/50%". And YOU even blindly support this nationalistic nonsense ... With all due respect, you do not seem to be neutral, either ...

PLEASE stop YOUR OWN POV-push ...

Tājik 10:49, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

To be honost, I'm really not in the mood to argue with anyone over the ethnic population of Herat or any other city of Afghanistan. If you guys want to add that the entire Afghanistan's population is Tajiks...you may go ahead and write this everywhere. You may also state that Kandahar is 100% Tajiks, like if this gonna change anything. I know the fact that User:Tajik is Qizibash or whatever you spell it...and this group of people are the least in Afghanistan. I don't even think they make 1% of Afghanistan's population. It is not my duty to come up with the exact number of ethnic people living in each city. As an Afghan and a proud Pashtun...I explain to westerners that since majority of the people speaking Dari, Farsi, Herati, Persian or whatever you call that language....this does not mean all of those are ethnic Tajiks. The best example is USA again....majority of people in USA speak Enlgish but that does not mean they are ethnic English people. You have people from every ethnic of the world living in USA and all speaking English. This is the case in Afghanistan.

Finally, when Emperor Babur stated in his 1525 AD memoires about calling Tajiks "Sarts"....Perhaps he meant to call them "Rats". User:NisarKand November 13, 2006

User:Tajik goes around searching in garbage to find anything that mistakenly showes higher population of Tajiks in Afghanistan...and uses that falsely made information as evidence for his argument. This uneducated User:Tajik is clearly admitting to everyone here that his map from www.magix-photos.com is the official estimate of Afghanistan's ethnic population. This User:Tajik assumes everyone in the world trust his trash that he finds online and expects us to believe his garbage. At the same time, this uneducated User:Tajik is strictly opposed to the map I provided from The University of Texas in Austin , which is a well known and most trusted University source. Even a non-talking donkey would turn face away from User:Tajik after learning of his nonsense and false information. User:Tajik is frustrated at Pashtuns for God knows why. I am not going to waste time with this uneducated User:Tajik any more, as I have much better things to do. We Pashtuns, with no doubts, have a very long history of ruling the region of Afghanistan. We successfully defeated Persians, Shias, British, Moghuls, Hindus, Russians and Tajiks. The Taliban were in fact Pashtuns and defeated the Tajiks after they assassinated Ahmad Shah Massoud on September 9, 2001. This is history and has nothing to do with my own nationalistic views. Iran, on the other hand, was badly defeated by Saddam Hussien in 1980s...and Iran does not have any history of winning any war. I am not against Iran in anyway by saying this...I am showing that I know more about history, which obviously makes me smart. Everybody is nationalistic in the world...this is nothing new...I would like User:Tajik to clearly say in here if he is nationalistic or not. Either he is or he is not...and nothing else. User:NisarKand November 13, 2006