Misplaced Pages

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Archives

Sept. 2005 - Sept. 2006

Avars

Please observe ettiquette and respond to the talk page invitation to discuss the material before reverting.Kaz 09:54, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Teimur and Moghuls

Salaam doost aziz, I think the Teimur and Moghulas were partly Turks and party Mongols. I might be wrong but did they not spoke Chagatay? --alidoostzadeh 03:00, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

BTW would you have a look at the Anousheh Ansari article. Some users are trying to claim she is not Iranian because she accepted US citizenship.. Whereas this is just US law and according to Iranian law, if your father is Iranian, you are automatically Iranian. Plus she has referred to herself as an Iranian woman. Khoda Negahdar --alidoostzadeh 08:23, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Baraye "anthropology of Avars"

Salam bar to, baradar-e man az Ariana bozorg! Lotfan, bexan baraye "antropology of Avars" va javab bedeh, agar momken ast: "Liptak (1955) went into the details of Avar Period’santhropology in his candidate degree thesis.He stated his opinion that archeological chronology system was simply wrong.According to Liptak, too much cemeteries were dated for the 8th century and too few for the 7th and the 9th centuries.He pointed out as an obvious contradiction the fact, that 7th century, early Avar anthropological material was almost exclusively Europid, while grave-goods indicated Middleand Central Asian parallels. On the other hand there were cemeteries dated for the 8th century that contained Mongoloid elements among others. The attire and armament introduced by the Avars was rapidly adapted by other ethnic groups, it became the general fashion of the region in the 7th century.Therefore the separation of autochton elements was (and is)simply impossible by archeological means. That is why Liptak strongly emphasized that to talk of Avar Period population makes much more sense than to stick with the phrases of “the Avars” and of “Avar population”... Liptak outlined his view that the gracile Mediterranean type was autochton, while the brachycran Europid types were partly typical of the local inhabitants,partly they migrated to the Central Danubian Basin with the Avars. He found the origin of Cromagnoids, Nordoids and large stature Mediterraneans uncertain, and he indicated migration as the probable reason of their emergence. Liptak mentioned the Asiatic origin of Mongolid and Mongoloid population elements, but he did not go into the details of any closer relationship or parallel. Liptak analysed the Avar Period population of the Danube-Tisza midland region and stated that 80% of them was of Europid character.He separated narrow-faced dolichomorph types (Nordoid, Mediterranean) in 38%, broad-faced Cromagnoid types (A and B) in 22.6%, and brachycran forms(Pamirian, Dinarian, Near Eastern and short-headed individualsof undefined origin) in 17.1%... He found the tall stature, dolichomorph, narrow-faced variation (its frequency was 22%) non-homogenous. Liptk put the northern (Nordic) and tall Mediterraneans under this heading.He separated two regional varieties, a western(Atlanto-) Mediterranean one and an eastern or Indo-Iranian one...Liptak considered the gracile Mediterranean (Ibero-Cromagnoid types Insular) type the most significant component of the Avar Period population. The that were classified the descendants of the Upper-Palaeolithic Cromagnon race were rated important components of the Avar Period population by Liptak. He added that these types kept their significance in the Arpadian Age as well. The author put Pamirian (Pamiro-Ferganian), Dinarian, Alpine and Near Eastern (Armenoid types under the heading of brachycran) elements... Their presence was insignificant in the Avar Period. Liptak paid the most attention to the Turanid (South-Siberian)and to the Ural types from the Europo-Mongoloids. Noneof the two had much significance in the Avar Period, but they were dominant among the conquering Hungarians. Liptak identified and described in detail three kinds among the Mongoloids of the Avar Period: the Northern-Chinese(Chinid), the Central Asian Mongol and the palaeo-Siberian types. He considered the two later types the keycomponents of Avar Period Mongolids...Liptak voted for the dual origin theory when studying the ethnogenesis of the Avars.He called true-born (pure blooded)Avar (Varchonite) those small series which were characterized by Mongolid and Mongoloid features. According to Liptak’s opinion the progenitors of the Vachonite originated from beyond Lake Baykal,and they migrated into Southern- Central Asia only sometime later.From there they were forced out by the Turkis hpeoples, and so they escaped into the Central Danubian Basin.There were series with acomparatively high ratio of the Iranian type (Kiskoros-Varos alatt,Alattyan).Liptak named them ones with Hephtalite origin because he considered the Indo-Iranian Mediterranean type a significant ethnical component of the Hephtalites. This type could be traced back as far as Central Asia (Liptak1983)". Volume 44(1-4):87-94, 2000 Acta Biologica Szegediensis http://www.sci.u-szeged.hu/ABS. Erzsébet Fóthi. Anthropological conclusions of the study of Roman and Migration periods Acta Biol Szeged 2000, 44:87-94 Abstract PDF. SYMPOSIUM Department of Anthropology, Hungarian Natural History Museum, Budapest,Hungary Anthropological conclusions of the study of Roman and Migration periods. Erzsebet Fothi.

Von mir auch: heutige Awarische Sprache hat sehr viele Germanisch-Baltisch-Griechisch und Ostiranische (Puschtu, Bergtadshiken) gemeine Woerter.--Awarenstuermer 16:44, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Your very knowledgable!

Great work on the Seljuk article. You have a lot of knowledge on the subject. Are there an books/articles you could refer me to so that I may also gain more knowledge?Khosrow II 00:48, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Help

Your help would be much appreciated on the Turco Iranian article. See history and the discussion page to catch up on whats going on. Zaparodjik is at it again...Khosrow II 20:43, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Seljuq Dynasty

Please see my replies in the talk page.. As soon as the article is unprotected I will be changing a Muslim dynasty to a Muslim Turkmen dynasty and add many sources to back it, some of them are already can be found in the talk page.. I will also be moving the article to Seljuk Turks per WP:NAME following a Google name test conducted where Seljuk Turks got 119000 hits to Seljuq dynasty's 500 or so hits.. The results can be found in the talk page. Should you disagree with this by blocking, edit-warring and reverting, I will refer the matter to an administrator and mediation if neccessary and report you for disruptive behavior.. If you check the history of page moves, you will see that a name with 119000 hits always takes precedence over a name with 500 hits, and any admin will agree with that.. This is the English Misplaced Pages, please don't forget this... Baristarim 14:00, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, you can blame me for being a pan-turkist or whatever, but pls take a look at my user page, as well, I am atheist, and a well educated man such as you would know that atheists don't become pan-turkists, nor pan-turkists want them to do so.. I am also a communist, so throwing out such insults by calling me nationalistic POV pusher is also inappropriate.. Seljuq dynasty can be discussed under Seljuk Turks.. Please look at what I posted on the talk page of the article, I also put sources about Seljuk dynasty being Turks, and not from some loony encyclopedia like enc:Iranica (ica??) but from Encyclopaedia Brittanica, whatever you might believe I bring my sources with me when I talk, Brittanica also refers to Seljuks as a Muslim Turkmen dynasty, when I will add these to the article, they will all be well-sourced from Britannica and others.. And don't warn me like I am some sort of school boy, I most probably know more about the world and travelled it more than you have.. I know wikipedia, I never said I was going to remove any sources, everything that I will add have proper and good sources (not the weirdo Iranica encyc, Brittanica is ten times better than that supposed encyc), read my posts on the talk page before trying to push your pan-iranist views.. This is also not afganistan where everyone makes a living by the death of young people (heroin) Baristarim 14:33, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

And you have already disqualified yourself by not responding to what Britannica says a Muslim Turmen dynasty and Seljuq Turks (seljuk-seljuq don't matter).. You are also here because your nationalistic views are hurt for some reason.. Turkey or Turkish people don't need a wikipedia article to tell them what is their history, so I couldn't care less about my nationalistic feelings getting hurt. You have also disqualified yourself by not understanding the difference between pan-turkist and communist and that they are completely incompatible.. Your attempts to discredit others by name calling won't get you anywhere mr pust-un. I also don't care where you are and what you do (hopefully not afganistan though as pointed above :)) but you also don't understand the fact that Iranians cannot impose on the English language, please go to a law and political sciences school to learn why Persian and Iranian would not be the same thing in English.. You can pretend that your definitions are valid, but so far you have not responded to my comments in the talk page.. I have my sources, Brittanica clearly refers to them as Seljuq Turks and as a Muslim Turkmen dynasty.. Even if your claims are true about iranica, Brittanica is still the standard as an encyclopaedia and your claim that they are some wanna-be experts who actually know nothing about the Seljuks or Muslim history (which, BTW, is the standard speech of ALL Pan-iranists in wikipedia) is not valid.. I will also add what I have mentioned about definitions with proper sourcing, and if you remove them be sure that admins will ban you. I have dealt with pan-iranism before and be sure that I will deal with it again.. This is also not the country where we build nukes in our garage so stop trolling... Baristarim 15:03, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Baristarim broke down on the Turko Iranian article discussion page. If we have to resort to reporting him, he made some interesting comments we could use as further evidence that he needs to be blocked.Khosrow II 16:11, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

is that what the Turkish education system has taught you in Turkey? or This is not Turkey, where every intellectual is put into prison because of "insulting the Turkish nation", yeah whatever, I have only replied to things you an Tajik have said, in exactly the same way.. There is no evidence that I have been disruptive, if I add something to the article, I will never remove something sourced.. So there you go.. Baristarim 17:14, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

سلجوقیان

What do you mean? The page is already protected. —Khoikhoi 20:49, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Sure, no problem Tājik, take care. —Khoikhoi 21:03, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Mediation for Scythian-related articles

Admin Alex Bakharev agreed to mediate our dispute over Ossetian Language, Scythia, and other disputes, to prevent future resorting to editing wars. Mediation is a required step in the WP conflict resolution procedure. Please contact # Alex Bakharev (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) The participants of the subjet editing wars were at least these parties:

• Ali doostzadeh and/or 69.86.16.239
• Khosrow II
• Jpbrenna
• Arash the Bowman
• Marmoulak
• Tajik

You may want to attract other your allies to this mediation effort

Barefact 20:23, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Dorood

Sure thing, but your knowledge is far greater than mine is. If it comes to having to debate with him, I'll try my best.Khosrow II 23:39, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

I know exactly the difference between those.. He was Turkic, happy?? :)) OMG! I don't have a hatred of Iranians, where did that come from?? I am a communist, so get over it, I am not nationalist! I don't like nationalist people however. It is you who is rejecting Brittanica as not being authoritative, who r u to make such a judgement? Wiki is not the place for that, I brought in my sources, and that's all that is required.. I don't care if Iranica is better or worse, Brittanica is one of the best sources out there, I really don't care if u don't like it just coz it doesn't agree with certain pan-iranist nationalist views. lool Baristarim 03:20, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

That's why I added a Turkic conqueror and not a Turkish conqueror:)).. Baristarim 03:22, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

If I were u, I would try to be less disruptive than your sidekick kozie .. OMG! It is obvious who is being disruptive, Wiki also knows how to deal with disruptive people.. Funny thing is it was you who were telling me if you delete sourced statements or be disruptive you will be banned.. It is you two that deleted sourced info from Brittanica and was disruptive.. Baristarim 07:15, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

On the other hand, I apologize for deleting your posts from my talk page earlier, I put them back in (except some unconstructive remarks though :)). You are very knowledgable btw. fair is fair :)) Baristarim 07:30, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Islamic conquest of Persia

Can you take a look at the occupation section of Islamic conquest of Persia, some anonymous user has entirely re-written the language part of that section. Most of the text there seems POV, but I'm not sure. --Mardavich 11:10, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Did you check that Tajik, this is the edit I am talking about? --Mardavich 11:14, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Re: Afghanistan

A reply has been posted on my talk page. — Edward Z. Yang 16:57, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

• Reply posted. — Edward Z. Yang 23:54, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Extensive Edits of Afghanistan

Well, I looked at some of the other edits by NasarKand, and can see the problems you mentioned earlier about removing sources (Herat) and POV. Sigh. I suspect he means well, but is just going about it in a rather aggressive way. KP Botany 00:48, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

This will not end well. Part of the problem is that the Afghanistan article is seriously biased towards the Persian history of the country, something you won't admit no matter what, that seems to be your POV--Nasar has latched on to this, and I can't argue with him about it, because he's right, and he made some necessary edits. However, whether this is your doing or not, the article needs changed to reflect a more NPOV about the history of Afghanistan. The Encyclopedia of Islam, by the way, does have Western and Arab biases of some Afghan issues--it's not necessarily the number one source on Afghanistan. Americans call Afghan Persian, Dari, after the style of the Dari and Persian researcher at the University of Nebraska at Omaha, by the way. While speaking English. And, the land of the Afghans, Afghanistan, is admitted to have been an entity for at least 3000 years by most all credible historical researchers.

Nasar is very well versed in the history of Afghanistan from an Afghan perspective. I suggest we keep trying to work together, including with Nasar, to make the articles on Afghanistan and Afghans excellent. It is an important subject with the Afghan diaspora bringing Afghans into the lives of English-speaking Westerners as never before. However, I don't see either of you attempting compromise or being the advanced guard of NPOV.

And, yes, there are serious problems with his edits, not just in the main article, but there are also some very constructive changes, but an edit war between the two of you won't go much anywhere.

The goal should be an excellent article about Afghanistan, nothing else.

Salaam, KP Botany 01:15, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Timur

What is the discussion about? Of course Persian culture was supported at his court yet at the same time his background was undoubtly Turo-Mongol. BTW it seems you speak German? If you do can you send me an email: alidoostzadeh@yahoo.com --alidoostzadeh 19:01, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Table of Tajik words

Hi! Thank you for adding the words in the table. Though, it seems rather Persian than generic Tajik dialect(?) due to presence of many Arabic borrowings. Anyway would be very useful.--Nixer 23:41, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Farhad Darya

Salam, Thank you for your contribution to Farhad Darya page. Please be sure to include a 'edit summary' when making changes to articles to make transparent you are not being sneaky or vandalizing the material. Also, if you changed Hindi to Hindustani, note that Hindustani refers to a person from Hindustan (aka India) and Hindi refers to the language of that country. I am not trying to make you look unintelligent but before making changes, make certain your text is the correct. This is an encyclopedia and everything is expected to be perfect. Please continue with your contributions...NeutralWriter

I think this is worth reading

This article put the multi-billion dollar opium-herion industry into scope in regards to Afghanistan. If you want to learn more about this aspect of Afghansitan and how it ties in witht he rest of the world and the world economy read this article.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=NAZ20061017&articleId=3516

Khorasan

Hi with regard to the whole Khorasan empire issue in the Ahmed Shah Abdali article. I don't mind the region being referred to as Khorasan, but the specific term ruler of khorasan has not been mentioned in any books I've read. If you have any references do post them on the discussion page.

Thanks

--Zak 14:41, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Re: Afghanistan

Sure, I'll check it out. These are the times that I really which Tombseye was here, he would usually be able to work out some compromise. But unfortunately, he seems to have vanished. :-( It looks like Nisar is asking for sources at the bottom of the talk page, could you try to provide them? I think that would help, thanks. Khoikhoi 06:00, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I'll try to pay more attention. And hey, do you know how I can change my user name? Parsiwan 14:50, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

(to Tājik) Do you want me to protect the page? Khoikhoi 23:22, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, Tajik, I was just about to revert back to that version. Thank you. Parsiwan 01:20, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately, there is not enough recent activity (i.e. edit warring) to justify protection right now. I will keep an eye on the page, and protect it when things start to heat up. Khoikhoi 02:21, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Done. Khoikhoi 21:17, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Personal attacks on my talk page

Please do not post personal attacks of other users on my talk page. Thank you. KP Botany 01:28, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

And personal attacks by Tajik elsewhere

Tājik, WP:NPA Misplaced Pages has a policy about personal attacks. Please read this policy. Until you understand it and want to address the issue at hand, the Herat page, rather than discussing what you perceive as the "problem with ," there is no point in my reading your posts, and certainly no point in your using yours to attack me. Please cease with the personal attacks and discuss the issue only. Thank you. KP Botany 17:07, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

The anon

If he reverted Farabi again, report him for 3RR violation, I've already warned him about the 3RR rule. --ManiF 15:32, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

I guess I could protect that page too. Khoikhoi 02:21, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Hephthalites

Please have a look at this article.Khosrow II 17:04, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Turkic peoples

Zaparodjik is back and hes putting in his POV edits again. He claims that the population of Turkic peoples is 208 million, while I added up the populations of Turkic peoples listed and got 120-150 million. Infact, the article itself has said 150 million for months. Please have a look.Khosrow II 17:35, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Hey buddy (Tajik), stop changing the page regarding Azerbaijan. You put your reasoning as "non-sense removed". That’s BS and you know it. You think you know things about the Azeri ppl. Do you even realize wtf changes you are making? The DNA analysis is all BS and everyone knows it. Don't change that, let it be. If you’re hating on Azeri and Turkic ppl then you have another thing coming. First and last warning. Do that again and see what happens. I aint threatening you, I am going to take other means of screwing you over. Thanks for understanding and have a great day.

P.S. Stop being racist.

Hey I just wanted to let you know that the Hammasa Kohistani picture is being put up for deletion

It will be deleted in 7 days according to

This:

Thanks for uploading Image:Hammasa np6.jpg. However, the image may soon be deleted unless we can determine the copyright holder and copyright status. The Wikimedia Foundation is very careful about the images included in Misplaced Pages because of copyright law (see Misplaced Pages's Copyright policy).

The copyright holder is usually the creator, the creator's employer, or the last person who was transferred ownership rights. Copyright information on images is signified using copyright templates. The three basic license types on Misplaced Pages are open content, public domain, and fair use. Find the appropriate template in Misplaced Pages:Image copyright tags and place it on the image page like this: {{TemplateName}}. If you have not already done so, please also include the source of the image. In many cases this will be the website where you found it.

Please specify the copyright information and source on any other images you have uploaded or will upload. Remember that images without this important information can be deleted by an administrator. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me, or ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

That's what was placed on my talk page. --Ķĩřβȳ♥ŤįɱéØ 10:32, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Request

Hey Tajik, can you please do me a favor and not call people "ultra-nationalists"? It's possible to get into a dispute with someone and remain civil at the same time. Thanks, Khoikhoi 02:20, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

I can't just pretend like I didn't see anything when I see insults from someone...but I'll check out the Hephthalites article. Can you explain to me (real briefly) what the dispute is about? What do Britannica, Colubmia, Iranica, & other sources say about them? Khoikhoi 02:36, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

== User:E104421 and encyclopedias==

Tajik,

First, I would ask you to avoid the word vandalizing when talking about good faith edits. Vandalism are edits that are known to be wrong, and I am sure E104421 believed that he was doing the right thing removing the badly sourced material from wiki. So please next time say mistakenly blanks or erroneously blanks or stubbornly blanks or something in this line. Labeling vandalism the edits that are not is a serious personal attack and is unacceptable.

Regarding the validity of the EI and EIr, I have problems persuading E104421 since I have my own opinion yet - I have not used this reference. I believe you that this is a serious scholarly work but you really nee an expert to state that a particular article in Britannica is more biased than Iranica. By default people more trust Britannica, but we probably need to collect all the opinions of the reliable sources. I would try to help you in incorporating all sources, but maybe an uninvolved expert could help you (e.g. User:Dbachmann)? Alex Bakharev 06:19, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Persian people

See the corresponding talk page. What's your opinion? Jahangard 02:42, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Karcha

Karcha has complained against you here: You should check it out.Khosrow II 23:05, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep an eye on the Rumi article, there are POV issues.Khosrow II 00:53, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Warning templates

You should use warning templates on the offending users page as often and exhaust them so that admins and others can get clear judgement (they cannot act most of the time unless there is a full set on the user's page). I've noticed that you've done a lot of reverts to one user's edits (and rightfully so), so these might help - most notably, the NPOV warning tags under "Editing messages". Cheers Seicer (talk) (contribs) 20:24, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Reply

What i have written is sourced, please do not remove! All the previous references are still there. You can compare, if something is missing, please contact with me, i'll correct it. Furthermore, the templates are for navigation only, their entries are not part of Misplaced Pages's article content in the full sense, they are part of Misplaced Pages's editorial meta-language. In addition, please do not forget that Britannica and Columbia Encyclopedia are reliable sources. Furthermore, try to be civil all the time. Do not forget the Three-revert rule. Regards. E104421 17:29, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

You're not the only owner of the articles. Misplaced Pages is not your propaganda archive to push persian/iranian nationalism. You'd better to read what wikipedia is not. Stop accusing/threating wikipedians. E104421 17:49, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Giving information based on reliable sources contrary to your persian/iranian nationalism is just the verifiability, not Pan-Turkistic vandalism! Live with this! E104421 18:06, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

The Turkish history template

That template is ridiculous, as it is based on a race. First of all, the histories of different Turkic peoples are not even tied or connected. You have some going to Europe, some to China, some to South Asia, etc... I think what happened is that they saw the History of Iran template (which is about a nation!) and got confused and thought it was about the history of Iranic peoples. I put a comment on the templates talk page.Khosrow II 23:04, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Response

1. I protected the Rumi article; although I wish you wouldn't edit war so much. :-(
2. NisarKand has been indefinitely blocked by Golbez, so I guess that's that. In the future try WP:PAIN for personal attacks, rather than posting them at WP:AN/I. Cheers, Khoikhoi 05:06, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

RE: My talk page

I've protected Babur, but the other one hasn't been edit warred on since Khoikhoi's protection & unprotection. Leave me a message or (even better) take it to WP:RFPP if it starts again. -- Steel 22:08, 15 November 2006 (UTC)