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User talk:Katherine (WMF)

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Media Inquiry on Plagiarism

Hi Katherine, sure, have the journalist google my name and contact me by email. I'll be glad to give them a phone number. --WiseWoman (talk) 21:48, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Where is the strategy audit?

Hi Katherine, I saw in your Metrics Meeting slides that this month you have scheduled an "Audit 2016-18 strategy: Does it capture all assets, strengths, threats, opportunities?" Where is that taking place?

Do you know when the critical question synthesis of the meta:2016 Strategy/Draft WMF Strategy and its discussion is due back from the strategy process facilitator contractor? It's been "(coming soon)" redlinked in the infobox there for over three months now. EllenCT (talk) 01:38, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

Hi @EllenCT: - we deprioritized the critical question synthesis against preparing the Annual Plan and shepherding it through the approval process. We expect it to be ready around the end of next week. The Audit will likely live on a TBD location on Meta, but has not yet been planned beyond what I presented. We'll be sure to continue to share as that process moves forward. Katherine (WMF) (talk) 21:47, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
Thank you! EllenCT (talk) 01:16, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

Any word on the critical question synthesis? EllenCT (talk) 01:59, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

Thank you so much for seeing that through, Katherine. I excerpted the recommendations at meta:2016 Strategy/Recommendations and started brainstorming some specific tutorials as suggested on the discussion page there. EllenCT (talk) 14:27, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

Specific suggestions

Please consider the risks of coordinated paid advocacy and ways to mitigate that risk. It is similar to the risk that bias will be introduced where the surveillance state controls or has a chilling effect on editing.

By the way, I like the fact that your first article was on a housing project. We can not make improvements until we study flaws. Where do you find the best skills to make constructive criticism complementary? EllenCT (talk) 13:54, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

That was a serious question; I hope you didn't think it was rhetorical. I wish I had better constructive criticism skills, and your popularity among sticklers makes me want to know your advice. EllenCT (talk) 17:35, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
One of the tutorials I suggested is on constructive criticism skills. That seems to be the lowest hanging fruit for community civility gains, as far as I can see. EllenCT (talk) 14:27, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

Staffing suggestion

From which was archived before being responded to: Please give Halfak (WMF) the funding and authority to hire Nettrom, Quang Vinh Dang, Claudia-Lavinia Ignat, Susan Biancani,Yu Suzuki, Masatoshi Yoshikawa, and/or their referral(s) for an importance evaluation system to complement ORES's quality classification system. Would you please also get Legoktm help for mw:User talk:Legoktm#FRSbot questions so our nascent jury system can pass audit? I also want to know how much it would cost to implement searching recent changes.

Thank you for your kind consideration of these requests, and please keep up the good work. EllenCT (talk) 14:27, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

Abandoning projects or assigning further budget

Hi Katherine,

What mechanisms does the WMF have for abandoning failed projects or assigning new budget to projects that have not completed their objective with prior funding? Are there any that are explicitly open to the community?

Thanks and best wishes,

Samsara 21:15, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

WikiConference North America Barnstar
Thank you for the role you played at WikiConference North America 2016. This year's conference could not have been a success without your contributions and we hope you will continue to be involved in 2017. On behalf of WikiConference North America - Gamaliel (talk) 01:13, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

Holiday greetings




Thank you for all you do for WP. I was proud to have gotten to meet you. Keep inspiring us all to push on. Merry Christmas and best wishes for a happy, healthy and productive 2017!
TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:14, 25 December 2016 (UTC)

WMF Legal and paid editing

Hi Katherine

I am interested to learn if the WMF management or the board has discussed taking legal action against companies that offer services to edit Misplaced Pages and that have no on-Wiki presence disclosing their edits here, per the Terms of Use. We all know the companies and their websites, where they use the Misplaced Pages name, etc. I have looked and never found disclosure by any of those companies in WP. I have looked and found no public evidence of WMF legal engaging with these companies, other than Wiki-PR.

Some en-Wiki editors recently identified a long-term paid editor and brought the matter to ANI: thread is here.

Two questions:

Has this been discussed, and if so, what has/have the outcomes been?

Also, is there budget for WMF legal to take action against such companies?

Best regards Jytdog (talk) 06:16, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Uncontrolled spending increases

In my essay at User:Guy Macon/Wikipedia has Cancer I make several proposals.

Whether of not you agree with the essay as a whole, would you be willing to propose and/or support the following?

  • Make spending largely transparent, publish a detailed account of what money is being spent on and answer any reasonable questions asking for more details.
  • Limit spending increases to no more than inflation plus some percentage (adjusted for any increases in page views). Are you willing to support any limit at all on spending growth, and if so roughly how much? 10%? 20%? 30%?
  • Build up our endowment and structure the endowment so that the WMF cannot legally dip into the principal when times get bad.

--Guy Macon (talk) 02:46, 19 April 2017 (UTC)


A kitten for you!

Thanks for all you do at the Wikimedia Foundation!

Asparish (talk) 00:21, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

Q re funds

Hey Katherine, my real life person ;) just got an email asking for a donation. I attended an anniversary conference in SF (it was great) couple of years ago, and from what I understood our issue is not the funds but what to do with them. So I am curious about our current approach to maintaining and improving wikipedia. If my impression re what we discussed is correct, why are we asking for more donations? I'm eager to give, just curious about our strategy. Rybkovich (talk) 22:21, 19 October 2017 (UTC)

A question for you

Hi Katherine. Some community members just pointed me to this tweet from your twitter account earlier today (archived here for reference). I gather that the tweet is in reference to this article by Buzzfeed News, which was published this afternoon and tweeted (archive) three times today by its author Joe Bernstein, who is registered here as JosephABernstein.

We haven't met, but by way of introduction, I'm a current member of the Arbitration Committee. I'm here entirely in my capacity as an individual volunteer, not as a representative of the committee - but still, as a volunteer whose role means I've invested quite a bit of time over the last couple of weeks trying to work out a broadly satisfactory solution to the situation described in that article. Does your comment reflect your views about the volunteers who have taken an interest in or discussed the article, who spoke to the reporter who wrote it, and who have spent their time trying to resolve the issue it covers? (As I was writing this message, I noticed you'd posted a followup (archive), but I'm afraid I don't understand it - the original text, When you have to retweet your shitty pseudo-thinkpiece three times because no one cares., is pretty specific, and hard to read as garden variety the world is burning subtweeting. Were there other long articles posted three times today?)

I understand some community members have asked you about the same comment over at meta - I'll post a short note there, but as the concerns that have been raised about the underlying incident reflect a matter of local community interest, I'd prefer to keep things on enwiki. Thanks. Opabinia regalis (talk) 06:13, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

Hi Katherine. As another member of the Arbitration Committee, I would also like a response here. Worm(talk) 06:31, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
Agree with Opabinia regalis that it would be appropriate and helpful for you to make a clarification statement here on Misplaced Pages, even if it is to say that yes you were posting about the article, but did so in a moment of weakness and frustration. We understand that here on Misplaced Pages, because it is a surprisingly stressful place to work as a volunteer because we have to monitor thousands of edits every hour looking for edits which damage the reputation of Misplaced Pages, which put the Foundation in jeopardy of legal action against them, which create unrest, which are disruptive, plus having to deal with the everyday frustrations of editors who disagree with each other over how best to edit the encyclopedia, and then work out from the context what the issue really is, and how best to address it. So, yes, we understand frustration here on Misplaced Pages, and sympathise with people who make inappropriate outbursts now and again. We tend to be more understanding and forgiving of those who are self-reflective and honest about their actions as it tends to reassure us they have taken on board what has happened and so make it unlikely that it would happen again. So we would be more reassured if you said yes it was about the article which had annoyed you on a personal level, then if you attempted to cover up the tweet by saying it was about something unrelated. However, if it was about something unrelated, and you can supply evidence of that, that would be even more reassuring. SilkTork (talk) 06:42, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
It might help to stop tweeting about this issue until you have a clear statement to make, and to make that to this community, not the Twitter one. This Twitter comment: in which you say that the Misplaced Pages community is a "monolith misnomer" to suggest that we are fractious and divided and unable to agree, could be read as hostile, non-appreciative and non-understanding of the communal work that goes on here every minute of every day, and insulting to those of us who value the collegiality and co-operation of the community and who respect and abide by the consensus of the community, even when they disagree with it. There is speculation in the community that the Foundation does not understand the community, and sees it as toxic and fractious and troublesome; such comments encourage that view rather than dissuade it. SilkTork (talk) 08:22, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
SilkTork, I read her comment very differently. I thought she was making the important point that one ought to be exceedingly careful about any statement such as "the community thinks X", because it is not a monolith, it is not the borg, it is a collection of individuals who have a variety of view on many subjects. S Philbrick(Talk) 12:53, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
For what it's worth, that was also my interpretation. GorillaWarfare (talk) 16:38, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

And as not a member of Arbcom but just one "the 'oi polloi", yet someone who has contributed more than 150,000 edits to this project over 14 years, I'd also very much like to hear your explanation. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:06, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

In 13 years I have never seen this place erupt as much as this - alot of people are very upset. It needs leadership and soon. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:38, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
For what it's worth, the tweet is currently under discussion at Misplaced Pages:Community response to the Wikimedia Foundation's ban of Fram#Katherine Maher tweet. Also, throwing my headband in to endorse Opabinia regalis's comments. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 07:48, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

WMF have displayed appalling leadership and appalling communication throughout this farrago. And now you add the kind of childish hideousness that if done on Misplaced Pages could get you banned without appeal or information about your offence by your very own WMF secret police. Disgraceful. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 12:21, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

Ah. You've not edited here in 3 years. So at the risk of earning your scorn on Twitter, I'll repost this message on meta. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 12:31, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

You can add me, speaking as a Misplaced Pages editor or ArbCom member or whatever you like, as someone who is hoping you will speak on-wiki to this. I've always admired that you speak your mind on Twitter, and use it to voice everything from your political opinions to my own personal favorite use of Twitter: a place to air those weird thoughts that go through your head and have no other place to go. A lot of people in similarly high profile roles as you use their Twitter accounts as little more than an extension of their corporation's Twitter account, resulting in a very robotic and uninteresting feed, which I find unfortunate. But by not handing your account over to some communications team with a carefully-orchestrated messaging plan, you definitely run some risks as far as how your messages come across, as I'm sure you're aware.

I personally find it frustrating that (to my knowledge) the first you've spoken about this recent WMF ban fiasco is a) in a tweet, not on-wiki, and b) only to dismiss a journalist who wrote a piece that you later acknowledged "covered the community position and wiki details accurately". You also haven't actually addressed directly whether you were initially tweeting about the Buzzfeed article at all, which to me feels evasive (and honestly, a little bit gaslight-y)—it certainly seems unlikely that you were referring to some other thinkpiece that was tweeted out three times by its author, especially when you later addressed the Buzzfeed article directly, but you've said things like "it wasn’t about a specific author or article" and alluded to thinkpieces on things like gender and income inequality as if you might have been referring to something else. Furthermore, though you've acknowledged that your tweet was hurtful to members of the community that you in a way lead and represent, you have not meaningfully apologized or addressed it on-wiki. I am often one of the first to speak up about unreasonable demands on peoples' time—Wikipedians are unfortunately prone to forgetting that people have jobs and standard working hours and personal lives and other obligations—but even a quick note on-wiki (any wiki) to say you'd be addressing it would've been a good start. I understand also that you're more fluent with Twitter, but meeting us where we are (or not) makes a big impression.

You've also said that you have not communicated with the community because no one has asked you to directly, but surely your employees and board members have made their CEO/ED aware of one of the largest issues that the largest Wikimedia project has faced in the past years? Why would you not proactively address it, rather than wait for a community member to comment? Sure, Trust & Safety is the group that typically handles bans and subsequent communication, but this ban has evolved into a major threat to this community and its relationship with the WMF, which to me seems like it is a critical time for leadership from the CEO and ED. GorillaWarfare (talk) 17:25, 28 June 2019 (UTC)


I am another member of the Arbitration Committee. At this stage, I request from you a full explanation. Why did you write such a thoughtless tweet? What time have you devoted to the future handling of WMF actions on enwiki? What action are you taking next? We can gather donations without you. You are here to provide a degree of professionalised leadership and experience. As it stands you would probably be blocked if you were a volunteer, acting like that and contributing nothing helpful. It is pathetic. AGK ■ 17:34, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

I am not currently a member of the Arbitration Committee, but previously served on the Committee for eight and one-half years, which I believe made me the longest-serving member, for whatever that might be worth. I don't want or need to add to everything that's been said thus far, here and elsewhere, except to comment on the importance of dealing with the current situation. Whether deservedly or otherwise, this set of disputes is creating the highest level of unhappiness and disharmony in the English Misplaced Pages community that has ever existed in my 13 years of editing. I am sure you cannot address the issues unilaterally but you can certainly give the matter the attention it deserves, and reinforce that level of urgency with both the Board members and your Office colleagues. Putting aside the issue of the individual editor who was banned, as I wrote last week, the community remains uncertain exactly what it is that the WMF is trying to accomplish with this new initiative and how we are collectively to get where the WMF wants us to be, assuming that it's a place we agree we want to go. And if the goal is a higher level of civility, then as I wrote last night, your own utterances probably should model it, both on-wiki and in off-wiki communications about our project. But most importantly, please adjust your priorities as needed: until progress has been made toward deescalating the current situation, I can imagine no more urgent call upon your effort, time, and dedication to the wiki movement. Newyorkbrad (talk) 20:54, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

So many members of the Arbitration Committee in one place, all ready to congratulate themselves for their reasonableness and moderation, here to tone police a single tweet while ignoring the morass of conspiracy theories emerging from the toxic cesspool they preside over. This was no different from any other office action which you yourselves approved of and enforced against other users. The only difference is that the target was popular. Before you congratulate yourselves too much, all of you are the reasons we are in this mess in the first place, not Katherine's tweet or any alleged communications failures on the part of the WMF. You should all be embarrassed to have the audacity to blame anyone but yourselves for steadfastly doing nothing about this situation for years until the WMF was forced to step in to do something you would not. Gamaliel (talk) 22:58, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

You seem lost.- MrX 🖋 23:04, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
Bless your heart. Gamaliel (talk) 23:10, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

Comments relating to WP:FRAMBAN

Without any intention to involve myself in the main discussion, above all as a community member, and as a former admin here and elsewhere (not that the bits should matter), I would like to express my disappointment at the way the WMF has handled this matter so far, at various levels (and especially when it comes to clarity in the WMF-community relations). Although my contributions have been dwindling and scant of late, this climate of general malaise arising out of this situation is dispiriting (and given that this is enwiki, that's saying something). I do not wish to expound further on this issue here, but if you or anyone else should need my opinion, my email user function is open, FWIW. MikeLynch (talk) 11:59, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

I will underscore the significance of this. MikeLynch was Sanskrit Misplaced Pages's last remaining bureaucrat, and one of 5 administrators there. --Rschen7754 16:29, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

And I'm a long-time editor with no advanced permissions. I very much want to make sure that you start paying close attention to that main discussion. I think that we all are on the same team here, wanting what is best for the encyclopedia. But you really, really need to be aware that a large brush fire has been burning under your watch for quite some time now, and it needs to be dealt with thoughtfully. Thanks. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:07, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

I would also suggest a look at WP:BN. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:31, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
FYI – Until progress has been made toward de-escalating the situation at WP:FRAMBAN, I cannot in good conscience continue to implement the Misplaced Pages Editor of the Week Award at this time. I'm not sure what progress I should expect but I'll know it when I see it. My sincere hope is that it leads to more respect for the workers in the front lines.―Buster7 ☎ 13:22, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

Email

Hello, Katherine (WMF). Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.— Miniapolis 17:14, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

Responding to some questions and concerns

Hi folks. I'm not very active here mostly because it's not a very active page in general. But when I'm pinged there's a lot of activity here, like today, you have my attention, and here I am.

I understand people are very upset about my tweet yesterday. My tweet wasn't really meant to be about the BuzzFeed article about the situation here on enWP, it was meant more a comment about Twitter and media culture in general. (If I’d wanted to comment on the article, I would have linked to it directly.) But I understand why it was upsetting, and why it could be seen as dismissing or dismissive of perspectives and people here in the en-wiki community. That truly wasn't my intention, and I apologize. I've thought about deleting it, but I didn't want people to think I was hiding from something. (It was also admittedly a somewhat ill-conceived and hasty throwaway, which is Twitter in a nutshell, versugs what I hope will be a more thoughtful and well-written reflection here, more in line with the nature of this community.) Thank you for reaching out and inviting me to clarify my intention here.

My actual feeling on the BuzzFeed article, which I also clarified on Twitter, is that it accurately covers the situation in the community and the anger or frustration people have expressed about the ban and the Foundation's action. In general, I don't have issues with negative press coverage of criticisms about the Foundation or my own judgment and actions. That’s part of my role, and often I find it very useful to help me learn and improve. To that end, the coverage of the conversations was a fair characterization of many perspectives here. Very often the press doesn't really understand the workings of Wikimedia, however, the journalist clearly did his homework to understand community conversations and processes. He put in the effort, so kudos - that's not easy and it often takes people a long time. (I personally found the “culture war” framing to be strange, because seemed like it was trying to make a Misplaced Pages issue into a comment on society as a whole, using a very American perspective for what is a fairly international community.)

However, while I don't have any issues with the things I described above, I did feel the way it handled reporting on the alleged targets of harassment was objectionable. For people who know how the communities work, it would be very easy from the article to identify those individuals. That is not okay, and it would have been possible to write the article on the issue and the controversy without needing to take that approach. The Foundation communications team has been in touch with the Buzzfeed editors with our concerns around that. I take very seriously the matter of protecting members of our community, especially ones being harmed by harassment. Criticism is fine, but you shouldn't make it harder for people who already are in a hard place in order to make a point. Or, as I've been taught, don't 'punch down.'

Even if I’ve not been vocal here on my talk page or on other discussions, I’ve been closely monitoring what’s been going on here on en-wiki, and will continue to do so. I believe there are things that could have been handled better on the Foundation side, including my own communications. My goal, which I’ve shared with the Board and am happy to share with you all here, is to find a path to de-escalate the current situation and build better, lasting solutions to the issues of harassment. To me, this means consulting with the enWP community to address your articulated concerns about our respective roles and community processes, identifying some clear next steps to resolve some of the current concerns, and consulting on how we can work together to strengthen community self-governance while also cultivating a respectful editing environment that safeguards everyone in the community.

As always, I appreciate people's passion and the community's efforts toward holding the Foundation accountable, even when these conversations are difficult. I recognize I've also not answered every question or responded to every comment on my page today -- there's a lot, and I wanted to focus on the things that seemed most important and to have the most energy around them.

I know it doesn’t seem like it to many people at the moment, but I wholeheartedly support and am committed to the principle of partnership with members of this and other project communities. It’s been a part of my commitment as a Foundation employee for five years, and consultation is something I’ve made an effort to embed in every aspect of our work, from the movement strategy conversations to the product development process. We don’t always get it right, and even if we do, we don’t and won’t always agree on everything. But I know that collaboration and discourse is essential, and something we all -- community members and Foundation staff alike -- should always be working toward. Thank you. Katherine (WMF) (talk) 23:49, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

Excuse me for top-posting, SilkTork, but I was worried about another thing. I have trouble following your final valediction, Katherine (WMF), where you say But I know that collaboration and discourse is essential, and something we all -- Foundation and staff alike -- should always be working toward. I'm not trying to pettily catch you out wrt a word, but who are you referring to with the word "staff"? Foundation employees? The definition of "Staff" in our article is "People in employment within any organization" (when it doesn't mean a hand-held ceremonial stick or something). So either the volunteers writing and administrating the encyclopedia are invisisble in your good wishes, or else they're your employees. Could you clarify? For my part I've never felt like a WMF employee, nor do I want to. There's a distinction. Bishonen | talk 00:48, 29 June 2019 (UTC).
An editing mistake, thank you, and there was no ulterior insinuation intended. I meant to write "community members and Foundation staff alike." I certainly don't see community members as employees or staff. Katherine (WMF) (talk) 00:54, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
Point of WP-etiquette here, for future use: It is considered bad form to change your comments after someone has replied to them, unless you follow the directions at WP:REDACT. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:02, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
Hi Katherine, thanks for getting in touch. I've only read the first lines so far and got caught up in your comment that this page has been vandalised. I checked. It hasn't. Your page on Meta was the one that was vandalised. As the media may be reading this page, it perhaps doesn't look good for the CEO to be saying that their Misplaced Pages page was vandalised when in fact that isn't true. It's also not exactly a warm and encouraging start to be suggesting that this place is vandalised! I will finish reading this in the morning as I want to hear what you have to say with a calm and neutral mind, but a lot has been said today that keeps getting in the way of me being able to do that right now. But I wanted to be able to acknowledge and thank you for responding. SilkTork (talk) 00:10, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
You're absolutely right. I originally started writing this in response to some comments on my Meta talkpage, simply because I started with the most recent notification and that's where it led me. I didn't get far before I realized that wasn't where I should start by responding. I cut what I'd written, discarded the draft on Meta, moved over here, pasted and continued. I didn't catch that in the copyedit before publishing. Thank you for noticing, I've edited accordingly. Katherine (WMF) (talk) 00:15, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
  • Hi Katherine, I'm Tony. I'm a CU and OS here. I've been generally cautious about the situation here, because I've worked fairly closely with T&S on a few things in the past, but given your tweets yesterday, the only way this ends amicably is if someone high profile gets fired or resigns. That means either you or JEissfeldt (WMF).I still don't have an opinion on the ban itself, as I haven't seen the information, but you all have done a horrible job of dealing with the fallout here, and that alone requires a personnel change. You obviously cannot comment on that now, but the Foundation has lost the confidence of a significant number of people on it's flagship project, and there really isn't much else that can be done to repair that relationship other than a change in leadership at a recognizable level.I'm aware I am just a small part of this community, but I hope you at least consider what I've said. We've far passed the point where anything other than leadership change will heal the wounds here, and that's the case even if T&S is right. TonyBallioni (talk) 00:17, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

Katherine, I am a former Wikimedia steward. I am seeing editors who faced harassment in real life because of Misplaced Pages leaving over this. This means that the death threats and real life harassment was not the breaking point; WMF was. What would you say about this?

By the way, I'm still waiting a response to my email, though I fear that a lot of it is moot by now. --Rschen7754 00:52, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

Hi there. First, thank you for serving as a steward. I'm always a little amazed by the very existence of the role and what it says (in a very positive sense) about this community. While we've not had the chance to meet, I appreciate what you've done to make these projects possible.
You won't be surprised to hear that I received quite a few emails this week from community members, in response to a suggestion that people email me. This week was a little busier than usual, and not only because of this: it was the last week of the Foundation's fiscal year, which includes a number of administrative obligations. I've begun responding today and will continue to do so over the next few days. As for your other comment, I would say that no one should be harassed for contributing to Misplaced Pages. Katherine (WMF) (talk) 01:06, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
I've still not read your initial post - I will do I promise! :-) - I just wanted to pick up on your comment here that "no one should be harassed for contributing to Misplaced Pages". I have become aware that harassment appears to be a significant concern for the Foundation, and it has become an increasing talking point in the community. WMF and enwiki appear to have a point of contact there, though we seem to be attempting to deal with it separately. WMF can provide the money, the research, the professional skills to look into harassment, while the community can provide the experience and the context. Dispute resolution is very complex on Misplaced Pages. While there is obvious unjustified harassment, there is also legitimate concern about performance which appears to the party being questioned to be harassment. We have various procedures for dealing with these matters, which sort the wheat from the chaff. Those on Misplaced Pages who handle dispute resolution and/or deal with recalcitrant individuals, commonly find folks who are unable to see what they have done wrong, and will continue to deny it even when it is explained to them - see WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT. On the Committee we get many emails from individuals who feel they have been wronged, when it was in fact them who did the wrong. Such individuals totally and utterly believe they are in the right, and that the admin or Committee members who stopped them doing the wrong are in fact harassing them. Such people will complain for years. Long after they have been banned from Misplaced Pages. Such vexatious complainers are sometimes difficult to sort out from the individual who is genuinely being harassed. And it's a two way street. There are editors who do get treated badly on Misplaced Pages, especially new editors who are likely to make good faith mistakes. And there are admins who get treated badly, including death threats, for dealing with the problematic users. How do you know if you are hearing a complaint from a good faith productive user who is being harassed, or a problematic user who is being appropriately escorted off the premises by an admin? An experienced admin, one of those who has resigned this week, left me a note on my talkpage today, which made me think of a case that we had at the start of the year (the GiantSnowman case), in which an admin had been inappropriately hostile to a number of new users, and had harassed some for long periods. What he had been doing was totally unacceptable. But he was also an experienced and respected long term admin. We didn't desysop him or give him a one year ban. We looked closely at what he had been doing and devised a solution to steer him away from harassment and keep him doing productive work. I think it's worth bringing WMF's attention to such cases as they show that this community and this ArbCom can solve tricky problems and keep the project working. Let's work together on solutions. SilkTork (talk) 02:47, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
Katherine, I'll ask this in a different way: if you skim User talk:Jimbo Wales or User talk:Iridescent, there is this perception that all the WMF cares about is their own vision for the site, and that they would not really care, or even be quite happy if all of the older admins/"established editors" left to make room for the new editors who embraced this new vision. Moreover, some editors that are leaving are saying that they feel like "free labor" to get donations for paying staff salaries. That is what happened with Flow/Visual Editor/MediaViewer/superprotect. That is what is happening with the WMF local bans / emphasis on anti-harassment / code of conduct stuff now - and many of the uncompromising statements by JEissfeldt (WMF) just reinforced that view, with quotes like the community does not and cannot have all the facts of this case and While we appreciate Fram and other volunteers exploring possible compromises, Foundation bans are non-appealable. And yes, I get that harassment is bad, I've gotten death threats cross-wiki that mentioned my city of residence - but this wasn't the way to end it on the English Misplaced Pages, and it can be argued that this WMF action has resulted in more harassment. It makes the harassment that we have suffered seem pointless. Unfortunately, your tweets have only fueled that perception (that WMF doesn't care) and by themselves caused 6 admins (as of this writing) to resign. I am sure that this is not the message that you want to send to those who do the hard work of building the encyclopedia. Could you please respond to this? --Rschen7754 03:38, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
Hello Katherine, I am an editor at the German wikipedia, which resigned as a sysop after a similar intervention of the T&S team in the German Misplaced Pages in februar 2019. It was the first intervention of that kind, executed even before the policy change was published. Of course it did not raise the same turbulence as now in the English wikipedia, but in deWP we also monitor closely the seemingly growing power, the Foundation wants to establish over the community processes. From my viewpoint I focus especially on your words about the international community in your statement: First you use it as an argument against the Buzzfeed article, that it has an American perspective. But then you speak only about "consulting with the enWP community to address your articulated concerns about our respective roles and community processes". I want to remind you, that indeed there is an international community, and the balance between WMF actions and community self governance is not only a problem between the WMF and the enWP, but a problem between the WMF and all communities. So if the WMF wants to establish new processes and wants to consult the active editors about them, this is something, that has to be discussed with all communities, not only with the enWP. So it should not be done only in enWP and it should not be done only in English, but the WMF has to reach out to all bigger communities with established strong self governance. Thanks. --Magiers (talk) 08:08, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
As an editor who is still sysop in German-language Misplaced Pages and on Wikimedia Commons, I would like to second the above statement by Magiers. English-language Misplaced Pages has the largest community, but it is only one of many communities that are affected by these questions. A consultation should happen not in English-language Misplaced Pages, but at Meta, and it should be multilingual. For what it's worth, as I do not know to what extent it came to your attention, the case Magiers is referring to is Judith Wahr / Edith Wahr / Janneman (accounts used over time by the same user; then-current account was Judith Wahr). This case was very baffling for German-language Misplaced Pages's community, as the user was already indefinitely blocked there and the case seemed solved by the local community, when months later, the WMF suddenly added a "Partial Foundation Ban" on top of the already existing block (there is no finely defined distinction between a block and a ban in de-WP, by the way - unlike en-WP; our block policy is much shorter and there is no distinct banning policy - but it works nevertheless). Gestumblindi (talk) 08:59, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
+1 to both, Magiers' and Gestumblindi's statements.--Aschmidt (talk) 13:45, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

Your explanation regarding your tweet does not reach the fringes of plausibility. You are attempting to obfuscate. Badly. From that point I have no confidence in anything you have to say regarding the more serious situation caused by the incompetent running of your organisation. Leaky caldron (talk) 08:17, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

Katherine, you state that "I wholeheartedly support and am committed to the principle of partnership with members of this and other project communities." So what does the phrase "principle of partnership" mean to you? To me, it implies the existence of a contract, either written or verbal. (There is some discussion over at User talk: Jimmy Wales over the existence of a "Constitution" of Misplaced Pages. It is relevant here if we accept that the constitution of a government is a type of contract.)

Years ago, the contract between the Foundation & the various projects seemed to be simple: the Foundation would be responsible for what it could do best (e.g., run the servers, maintain the code base); the communities would be responsible for what they could do best (e.g., create content); & while the Foundation would be responsible for what the law expected them to be responsible (as defined by the US law concerning telecommunication common carriers, everything else was the purview of the communities. Sure, this was not intended to be permanent, but a reasonable person would expect any of the parties in this contract to open negotiations when they wanted to change the areas of responsibility. This is not what the Foundation has done; they have arrogated in the past what belongs to the project communities, taking from us & leaving us with little recourse except to grow resentful -- or leave these projects as individuals.

Based on my interpretation of "principle of partnership", can you understand why I & others took offense at your tweet? Can you understand why we find your explanation unsatisfactory? (At best it comes across as a display of cluelessness; at worst it appears to be an exercise in disingenuousness.) Is what you wrote above truly what you believe, & will help us understand yours goals for the future of en.wikipedia? There is much mistrust in our project community towards the Foundation due to lack of information; unless you provide more information, that mistrust will only fester & spread, & lead to the end of the English Misplaced Pages. -- llywrch (talk) 08:42, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

  • Thank you Katherine, I have now read through your post. I feel optimistic. The enwiki community are hurting right now, so there will be a period of pushback from some against any idea of collaboration between enwiki and WMF, including that of increased communication moving forward. But that is exactly what is needed. I have suggested to several people, Jan included, that a permanent interface between WMF and the enwiki community (and, if appropriate, the other other communities, such as the German Misplaced Pages) be set up. Notices that are applicable to enwiki could be posted there, and discussions on those posts can take place. The communities can raise queries, suggest ideas, etc on such an interface. I was thinking along the lines of Misplaced Pages:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard and Misplaced Pages:Bureaucrats' noticeboard, where notices are posted on the project page, and discussions on those posts take place on the talkpage page. Subpages could be set up where ideas or queries are placed by the community for attention of WMF. Everything in the open and recorded and easy to find. Similar interfaces could be set up on other communities. Notices relevant to all communities could be posted there as well as local notices. Initial discussion to take place on local communities, and then transferred to Meta as and when appropriate. SilkTork (talk) 09:57, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
  • Katherine, the core issue is that while the community did not consider Fram to be a model of civility, it has been taken aback by the sudden removal of Fram (words like "dissappeared" are used). Misplaced Pages is a unqiue platform, and unlike Reddit or Tripadvisor etc., it requires highly-skilled individuals to donate material amounts of their time for free. That donation is made on the basis of an open and transparent community that gives the donors a sense of predictability about what they can expect on Misplaced Pages for various behaviours. They are familiar with difficult cases, and situations where ArbCom take action against an editor without being able to disclose all the details; however, the community takes comfort that ArbCom is an elected body that has the trust of the community. Your tweet about what was a pretty well written Buzzfeed article, materially amplified concern amongst the community in the judgement of the WMF, and that WMF decisions may not be sound.
WMF needs to get ahead of this crisis. This could all be resolved immediately, if the WMF would show ArbCom the details of Fram's ban (in private); if ArbCom agreed with the WMF, then we are done. Even if ArbCom disagreed with the WMF (e.g if there was no information that was not already publically known about Fram), then there is a healthy debate to be had about what is civility and harrassment, and its governance on-Wiki; I think most editors would agree is not being done properly on-Wiki. I could well be that WMF is a better forum for handling these cases, and for setting the benchmarks/criteria, however, once the paramaters are clarified, it would key for all, that ArbCom is in agreement with any such WMF actions. Britishfinance (talk) 11:46, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
  • Katherine, first I would say thanks for answering my tweets and continuing dialog here. Next, I would say that there really is a big disconnect between WMF and the volunteer community. Reassurances are not going to help. What might help is stepping back, admitting there is a disconnect, and start working towards bridging that gap. The gap DOES exist, and the only solution is working on it, not denying it. That is a two way street, perhaps we can benefit from understanding what WMF has to deal with as well, but right now we are two islands drifting apart, and already much of the damage is permanent. Because we are volunteers, we want as much autonomy as possible, and as much transparency as possible. As the Foundation, you need us to trust you as much as possible because there are some things you must do 100% in private (legal/child protection/etc). That is the partnership, each doing different things, but EQUAL in each other's eyes. This fire can still be put out, but only with quick action, simple action, and the WMF demonstrating a level of trust in US, the volunteer community. We want a solution, but kind words are not enough. I won't bother you with email, but feel free to email me using the wiki interface if you are so inclined. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 12:39, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

As a no-official-whatsoever and only sporadic contributor to English Misplaced Pages, I would like to state that the Tweet is inacceptable misconduct. The 'explanation' "My tweet ... was meant more a comment about Twitter and media culture in general." is ridiculous. The rest of the statement therefore cannot be taken seriously any more, not even regarding the other legit poinits of criticism raised so far. With such a person being executive director of the WMF, Misplaced Pages has a very serious problem. --KnightMove (talk) 17:35, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

Volunteers are beginning to turn anti-vandalism bots off in protest

Katherine, bots do a huge amount of work to keep the encyclopedia usable, and if this sort of thing continues, it will be terrible. I've experienced harassment in the form of WP:TAGTEAMs motivated by politics, gender, and both. What makes the Fram situation so bad is that there are so many outright terrible abusers who have been ignored in favor of a prominent critic of Foundation missteps in the past, which looks terrible. I've decided to stop editing until this is resolved in a way that shows the Foundation is more interested in addressing the obvious out-in-the-open abuse instead of vindictive retribution towards your critics. EllenCT (talk) 06:15, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

@EllenCT: Have you reported that to T&S? They act only in response to specific reports from Wikipedians. In that sense, "Why haven't you done something about X?" is most often answered by "This is the first we're hearing about X". ~ Rob13 16:20, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
  • I think it would be fair to say that reporting such situations to T&S now would be counterproductive on a personal level, and damaging to the project in general. I have zero confidence in T&S's abilities to handle these situations. The situation the WMF has created is one where rather than solve an issue of harassment, they have decidedly made it worse on a personal level. On a project level, the devastation they have caused shows an absolute disconnect with this community, and that's being kind. Being more direct, T&S has shown themselves to be utterly incompetent and incapable of carrying out their appointed duties. --Hammersoft (talk) 17:37, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

I, too, have stopped editing, primarily out of fear - ten or more years and > 200,000 edits later. I've spent years dealing with stuff here which attracts a lot of threatening behaviour, one instance of which actually involved the WMF intervening on my behalf (check with the Legal people) but nothing - nothing at all - is remotely as off-putting as the present shenanigans. It is almost as if the WMF staff actually want to kill the goose that lays their salaried golden eggs and it is an extension of remit beyond anything I could have imagined. Any lingering faith I had has been diminished by your tweets and subsequent obfuscation, and I already had no faith at all in the ironically named Trust & Safety whom, I honestly suspect, will likely now have me in their sights. This is an encyclopaedia, not a social engineering project, and I think the WMF have become blind to this as well as to their reasonable boundaries. - Sitush (talk) 11:12, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

  • Concurring with Sitush. Katherine, you have an extremely serious issue on your hands when people like myself and Sitush who have more than ten years of experience on this project, have grave concerns about the WMF acting in retributive ways. There is no trust the WMF will now act in appropriate ways. You've had three years to get the house in order, far more than enough time to change the culture. The culture has indeed changed. It's now worse in its support, cooperation and appreciation of the community than ever before. Fixing this isn't going to happen in a day, but you had better come up with a publicly released plan of action to address the very serious concerns and do so not in months but in weeks. I would strongly, in the most adamant terms, encourage you to directly involve members of every significant language community in directing this effort. The WMF has shown themselves to have an extreme disconnect with community norms. Right now, you are way, way behind the reaction curve to this crisis. Your organization doesn't have a plan to address this, and Doc James's assertions that something is being worked on apparently WITHOUT involving the community is really just more fuel for the fire. If you don't take steps to involve the communities you purportedly exist to serve, any response you give to these communities will be fraught with errors. --Hammersoft (talk) 17:37, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

Community Health Initiative, and Detox

Thank you for beginning to engage with the Community. I wish to raise a rather serious issue which may have escaped your notice amidst all the other concerns. The Community Health Initiative makes claims about harassment and attacks, and the level of reporting of them, based on the Detox tool.

This tool has now been deleted, as it was found - by En-wiki editors concerned abut the Fram case - to produce results which were homophobic and racist, as well as not coping with the Scunthorpe problem, and failing to notice some obvious forms of anti-Semitism.

As a gay man I am disgusted that the Foundation could have come up with a tool that rated "I am gay" as significantly more attacking and aggressive than "I am straight", still more so that the Foundation should then use that tool to make assertions and accusations against the En-wiki community. It does not create a safe editing environment, in fact quite the opposite - I feel unsafe using Misplaced Pages knowing that this is how the Foundation treats my data.

The Community Health Initiative continues to host claims based upon Detox.

This is not something that can be papered over with platitudes.

Any research based on Detox cannot be relied upon in any claims about harassment or attacks, or the Community's response to those things. The CHI needs to urgently address its use of Detox. The Foundation needs to urgently investigate to what other uses Detox has been put. After that, the Foundation needs to review its development of, and reliance upon, AI tools. In doing this it needs to engage directly with the editing community - not rely upon people finding out-of-date pages on Meta that nobody seems to watch. DuncanHill (talk) 12:09, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

Time for Katherine to start pinging Jan Eissfeldt on corporate Skype! Leaky caldron (talk) 19:05, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

Four minutes after I posted just now, references to Detox were removed from the CHI page. DuncanHill (talk) 19:09, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
And it appears they've known for two years that it produced the sort of results objected to. DuncanHill (talk) 19:15, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

Never used by T&S for any purpose? Leaky caldron (talk) 19:30, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

What you possibly don't understand

Katherine, is that the vast majority of the people posting on this talk page today are our most (figuratively) 'senior' and most highly experienced admins, bureaucrats, and functionaries of the en.Wiki community, and we've lost 22 of them over the past few days in protest of the WMF's handling. Among the 500 or so other admins who do the routine maintenance work, this is the group of de facto movers and shakers of this project that others tend to respect and follow. Just because we do not enjoy salaries and business travel expenses does not mean that we are any less important than the position of a WMF ED and the rest of the C-suite.

Your comments today together with the less mature tweets clearly demonstrate, to me at least, that you have not really been reading all that has been written about these circumstances, because to do so would now require several hours to catch up. Instead you take your cues and clues from a journalist - whose summary was fortunately extremely accurate. I do not believe that you fully comprehend the seriousness and impact this issue is having on our community and its traditionally highly strained relations with the organisation you head up.

The WMF needs some leadership of the calibre we can expect for the salaries that are generated by our volunteer work, but at the moment the WMF and its management have totally lost the confidence of the volunteer community whose work provides the salaries and luxury travel expenses for the staff. I'm also beginning to regret the tens of thousands of hours I've spent over the past 14 years (nearly 9 as an admin), and the thousands of $$ travelling to Wikimanias to get some important new functions and policies established.

I was 3 metres away from you in Esino Lario when Jimbo announced your new position, unfortunately I cannot afford the $3,000 it would cost me to come to Stockholm from over 5,000 miles where I live, but I would not be surprised if you are received this time by a less joyous audience. I would certainly invite you to read the discussion on Iridescent's talk page, and take the time to reflect well on what you next statement here is going to be. Please now show some crisis management and work after hours on it if you have to, because I'm afraid I'm with TonyBallioni on this. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 17:35, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

  • Just lost another admin at enwp (at least 20 now, plus crats/os/cus), and now MikeLynch resigned as adminship and bureaucrat on the Sanskrit Misplaced Pages, leaving them with zero bureaucrats, so this is spreading to other wikis and gaining momentum. Dennis Brown - 2¢
  • Just to clarify my statement above, but I don't necessarily think that Katherine herself needs to go, but I do think that is in the cards at this point because of how bad the situation has become. Someone does need to go, however, because a new face is needed if this is going to go forward. I've been accused of being a WMF "loyalist" by some, so I'm hardly the type to make these calls lightly. A visible leadership change is needed so the community can have confidence with whomever they are dealing with. That may mean you, Katherine, or that may mean Jan.I don't know, and this is going to sound weird considering I just asked you to think about whether or not you should resign, but I do trust you to make that judgement. I'm not here trying to raise a mob. I'm here raising the real possibility that we've reached the point where only leadership transition at some visible level will begin the healing process. It's a difficult thing to talk about, but it is something that should be part of the discussion. TonyBallioni (talk) 18:11, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
  • I very seriously doubt that anyone in that organisation has the remotest thought about leaving. They are salaried with generous packages. Why would they? Leaky caldron (talk) 18:17, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
    Indeed, this storm will eventually blow over if WMF and Maher keep ignoring it, days, weeks, months. We'll lose plenty of decent people (we already have an unprecedented exit rate of admins, so that's something to write home about WMF!), the project will suffer a bit, and other people might step in, believing in all that leftie crap I bought into, where this was an "anyone can edit" Misplaced Pages, but with such dark undercurrents. Pretty much none of us have been paid for spending the last 15 or so years properly building the fabric upon which these individuals take their salaries. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:21, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
Life can be hard at the top where the buck stops, with the big bucks and expense account, but only if one does not stay on top of the job description. If it's any consolation, I would sincerely not like to be in Katherine's shoes right now, but it's all part of the job she accepted. Quite a contrast now to her quotidian life at 38,000 feet and luxury hotels, while wrongly believing that competent people have been left in charge of ground control in SF. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 18:32, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
  • My shoes are off and by my door, and I'm on my couch at home talking to folks here. It's where I'll probably spend a bit of time until I go back into the office on Monday. Katherine (WMF) (talk) 19:30, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

Wikipedians are Awesome (Don't underestimate us)

Header formerly was 'Don't underestimate us'

Katherine, I am 50 years old and have 30 years experience running businesses that I've started, including a cybersecurity company. Other volunteers, such as Newyorkbrad have important positions and even more experience. You seem to think that Misplaced Pages volunteers don't know as much as your professional staff. You are mistaken. Before letting Trust & Safety light any more forest fires, please come to us and gather our advice. We have deep experience to share with you. If we've failed to solve problems related to online harassment, that's not because we're inept or unwilling, but because the problem is hard and nobody has solved it yet. Jehochman 17:43, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

Concurring with Jehochman, who is 'only' 20 years my junior, Katherine, my academic career has been in communication - and that means most of it in the times before desktop computers, mobiles phones, and the Internet and its stupid social media were invented, which people of your generation don't remember. With our huge diversity of qualifications here on en.Wiki we would run rings around the staff in SF, and with the exception of the maintenance of the server farms and software it's probably what we'll end up doing. In a way, it's scandalous that most of the work in the SF office is not populated by volunteers from the communities. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 18:03, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
Hi there. I appreciate that there is a wide and deep breadth of experience in this community, which is why it has worked as well as it has for as long as it has, and will continue to do so. There are a number of ways in which the Foundation has been working in active collaboration with volunteers from across the communities -- here on en-wiki and elsewhere -- to identify and respond to harassment. I'm sure you're familiar with those efforts, but sharing again here for others who may not be. I'm speaking for myself and the Foundation to say that we do welcome your thoughts on how to strengthen the ability of existing community bodies in dealing with harassment, and improve or develop processes and communications channels that work better for everyone. Katherine (WMF) (talk) 18:24, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
  • I think the header is a bit unfortunate (my first association was the guy from the new mafia warning the guy from the old mafia), but I'm glad you took it the right way. I'm reluctant to toot my own horn, but here it goes. I'm now a tenured professor of computer science. In my 8 years in industry, I co-founded a workers right council and was elected (and later re-elected) onto it by the employees, and during that same time was appointed by senior management as the central "diplomatic contact" and "decider" for one of the biggest projects the company ever did. The people I have often interacted with on-wiki include (in addition to the usual suspects) the chief scientist of Berkeley Earth and several other senior academics. This community is not perfect, but it does have an incredible level of competence, experience, and passion. We, or at least I, appreciate attempts to improve Misplaced Pages and its processes. But this is not easy, and in particular, it's bound to fail if it is imposed by a small group of relative outsiders. Let me ask one question: Do you know any other online community that is of a similar size as Misplaced Pages and does actually better in handling community problems like e.g. harassment? Especially one that is similarly successful in its primary mission? --Stephan Schulz (talk) 18:46, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
    • It's okay, I've been around long enough to infer that it was meant more to recognize the remarkable collection of people that compose this community, rather than a veiled threat. I mean, I entirely agree. I am here for the same reasons - I'm in awe of the generosity of spirit of the people who make Misplaced Pages possible, and I talk about this all the time: at community gatherings, to Wikimedia partners and supporters, to policymakers, to appreciative donors, to pretty much anyone who will listen. But to your question: I would say that yes, harassment of the sort you see in the comments sections of other platforms is largely not tolerated here. But it's a sliding scale, and it tends to be that the more prolific you are, and the more precise you are with navigating the specifics of policies, the more latitude you have to behave in ways that range from brusque to outright hostile. Those who *are* the subjects of harassment here in our community report the same terrible experiences as those targeted in *any* online community. This NYT article from this past spring I felt was an accurate and fair assessment of how that falls particularly heavily on people from minority and marginalized groups. Our baseline shouldn't be, are we better than the worst. It should be, are we the best? Are we truly a place where anyone can edit (or learn how to), or where "every single human can freely share in the sum of all knowledge"? Katherine (WMF) (talk) 19:17, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
  • Ok Kathrine, then please tell us: What are some of your SOLUTIONS to this ongoing and rapidly building problem? It isn't enough to say "we listen, we care" and if you really understood the greater community, you would know that. We want to hear some ideas on what you are going to DO. If ever there was a time for action, it is now. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 18:36, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
    • tl;dr: Stop the bleeding. Every day without action, more admins will resign and editors will leave. --Rschen7754 18:39, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
      • It is completely fair to ask what my proposals might be. I think the best way forward likely involves ideas that many people in the community also seem to be recommending. There is likely a role for ArbCom in the immediate case (although I want to be clear that, while Foundation T&S staff have had conversations with members of the committee through regular channels, I am not speaking for the committee and do not want to misrepresent any perspectives they may have or actions they may take). And then I would imagine a next step would involve consultation on how to build processes and tools that strengthen existing community bodies where they exist, identify gaps in the existing processes and proposed solutions, whether those are small gaps in otherwise robust processes or large gaps in which no viable solutions currently exist, and designate appropriate resources and time from WMF staff to support any outcomes or recommendations from that process. As you know, the Board has also been involved in conversations, and I'm working with them on how to move forward. Given that it is the weekend and many people involved in these conversations do have personal and family commitments, and the distribution of time zones for various people involved, I think it would be difficult to expect decisive action in the next 24 hours. Katherine (WMF) (talk) 18:59, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
        • In a classic corporate foul up 3 things are needed: Acknowledge, Apologize, Authenticity. You were late with the first, equivocal on the second and we are waiting for the third. In a publicly quoted company you would be contacting your head-hunter for your next position. Leaky caldron (talk) 19:09, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
        • Quite the contrary. You as the CEO of the WMF have the authority to enact item #2 from this action list right now. There is no risk to the community or to any apparent victims of harassment to enact this change now. Fram is unblocked and capable of ignoring the ban placed by T&S but is not doing so. At a local level, the ban has already been overturned. You can take a giant step forward in restoring the trust of this community by overturning the ban and directing en.wikipedia ArbCom to immediately open a case to address Fram. The only risk is that your T&S team will be seen as being found at fault for their actions. That's hardly much of a risk, as the community at large already believes this to be the case. You can make a statement to ameliorate this by saying "In my capacity has the Executive Director of the Wikimedia Foundation, I am hereby overturning the ban placed by the T&S team on Fram and directing the en.wikipedia ArbCom to immediately open a case to address issues regarding Fram. This action in no way is a statement with regards to the actions of the T&S team, or any of its personnel". Crisis cycles move far too fast for you to do nothing decisive in the next 24 hours. I very much appreciate your willingness to engage the community at this time. It's long overdue, but nevertheless very much appreciated now. That engagement is critical. So too is acting as I've recommended. --Hammersoft (talk) 19:12, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
          • I'm here to engage, and appreciate the direct recommendation. I don't anticipate that specific action happening in the next 24 hours. I recognize saying that may displease people, but I prefer to be direct as well. Katherine (WMF) (talk) 19:24, 29 June 2019 (UTC)