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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 72.91.169.22 (talk) at 02:57, 30 November 2006. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Re: Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University and BK Followers

• ===Message for admins.===

There is a BK Follower Riveros11 that is trying any trick in the Wiki book to block any other contributor to the above page.

For the record, I have tried to engage in Discussion, formal Mediation and Arbitration and he has refused to co-join despite being informed. I have also put in a RfC for use of self-published material within the set limitation according to policy. Two admins have agreed that this is inline with policy already.

Rather than engage in discussion, Riveros appears to me to just be intimidating folk off with endless and often erroneous Vandalism accusations, including nexcomers. I am going to remove those to give the newcomers an easier ride. I have no fear that I am doing the right think. Help .. don't bite.

Within his intent to re-write, with slavish copy and pastes from academic papers, in my opinion, Riveros has no intent to engage in discussion and is working with another Brahma Kumari, user Bksimonb to make repetitive accusation against me. Its becoming very silly.

What do we do?

I have decided to coninue to engage in editing the article until his modus operandi is made very clear and public. 195.82.106.244 03:19, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Blocked

You have been temporarily blocked from editing because of your disruptive edits. You are invited to contribute in a constructive manner as soon as the block expires. // Pilotguy (Cleared to land) 21:26, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

195.82.106.244 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

I have been blocked on the basis of accusation by Riveros11 of not being willing to discuss changes. Wiki records will show that I instigated both a Request for Mediation and a Request for Arbitration with Riveros11 but on both occasions he refused to participate. Two admins have cited Wiki policy of allowing self-published material which the other editor refuses to accept. I have even accept using the academic citation he suggests but am still subject to skillfully crafted ad hominen attacks by this member of the religious group in question. Please see discussion pages. It is laughable that I am the one being accused on not being willing to discuss!

Decline reason:

I reviewed the block and see no reason to unblock. Use this time-off to reconsider your editing behavior. ≈ jossi ≈ t • @ 00:17, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

brahmakumaris.info reply

ok try and answer these two as best I can

Unlike yourself, I have travelled to India. Whilst there I visited the home of the BK in Abu. In common with some of the other ashrams I visited, Abu appeared as a virtual haven of order and tranquillity relative to the colourful but disorientating chaos of the rest of India. Although I didn’t stay on site, I mixed freely with the many other students, including children of all ages. My impression during my time there, was that the children were thoroughly enjoying the experience and were well looked after.

Abu is a very large campus and I reckon must cater for substantial numbers of children every year. I’m confident that if you or the BKI community pick up the slightest rumour of anything remotely similar in the period since the child abuse was alleged to have occurred, (which would appear to be over twenty years ago), then it too, will immediately appear on your website. For the moment however, I’m having no difficulty trusting my own observation that the BK are providing a safe, well-managed environment for children in their care, both at home and on pilgrimage.

Regarding 1976. Scanning the ex-bk/pbk dialogue, it seems despite initial pbk assertions that there was a clear murli directive in 1966 indicating that ‘destruction’ would take place in 1976, that these assertions were subsequently retracted, and it appears the weight of evidence is left with a picture sourced from your website, incorporating the words ‘Destruction will take place in 10 years’. Ten years from when exactly? I could further speculate that the inclusion of this phrase maybe due to a little doctoring, that just happens to nicely suit pbk theology? Or, if it is indeed original, - quite simply a bit of artistic license on the part of the draughtsman? If I am swayed at all as to 1976 being a significant issue for the BK, it’s where an ex-bk recounts witnessing the feeling of expectation apparently running through the BK in 1976. Not that he himself was exactly biting his nails, as elsewhere he recalls receiving direct permission from ‘Baba’ to pursue a college degree in the fall of ‘76!

True or false? Black and white? One or the other? If only you applied some of this wonderful two-tone moral code to your own behaviour. - Maybe there wouldn’t be the mysterious user brahmakumaris.info lurking around to worry about? sincerely searchin man 18:29, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

searchin man, this has all been covered in the discussion page.

• There were numerous Murli references prior to and well after Kirpalani's death in 1969
• At least one of the teaching aid posters is actually dated, they appear in BKWSU publications that you can still buy online.

It is simple, if you lack faith, check the references to Kirpalani's surety and Shiva's predictions of Destruction in 1976 with the BKWSU. Especially, ask for copies of the the original Murlis of that time. If they will not allow you access to the original Murlis, ask why.

• You consider that you can succeed in your allegations and discrediting me by making a libels. The latest being of my doctoring BKWSU posters. Sadly, that is seems typical for you personally and of the increasing dishonesty typical for the BK team, e.g. please note psychologist Jesselp's complete contradiction and denial of his earlier claims that he was in the BKWSU.

The solution is simple. Ask the BKWSU. I know. I am not moved by the slur. You could ask the BKWSU to check these Murlis received by the BK medium called Sister Gulzar AFTER Kirpalani's death and alleged perfection., e.g.;

• Avyakt Murli 25/10/69 :

“The final Destruction of the whole World takes place within 6 years. Those who tell it to be 7 years have their position reduced.” (6 years from 25/10/69 comes to 1975/76)

• Avyakt Murli 05/11/70 : “From this journey, it is 5 years for Destruction.” (5 years from 5/11/70 comes to 1975/76)

• Avyakt Murli 03/02/71 : ” Within 5 years, the whole work should be completed.” (5 years from 3/2/71 comes to 1975/76)

• Avyakt Murli 09/09/72 : “Even those who are rich, even they live hardly for 3-4 years more.” (3-4 years will come to 1975/76)

• Avyakt Murli 04/02/74 : “From 10 years (of the declaration), only 2 years are left. Soon Kali Yuga has come to an end. The Drama is certain.” (2 years will fall in 1976)

• Avyakt Murli 09/11/74 : “Rest, 2 years is left over. Don’t think that it will become 3 years. It may become one year but it can never become 3 years” (2 years will come in 1976).

195.82.106.244 23:22, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Arbitration

Dear .244, Sure. place the request. BUT before doing that I have a request to have the article reverted to the last version I made (see BK talk page). This is to be fair with BK. You have nothing to lose. Otherwise, I have no choice but to continue changing the page. I have not done that today to show good faith and to behave in a "gentleman" manner... tomorrow it may be different. Let me know. Best, avyakt7 02:06, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

OK. 244 I am waiting for your answer... Thanks! AVYAKT7 72.91.4.91 16:40, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

counselling

u have not got back to me. have you started seeing a therapist? JP 19:05, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

I may be out of line here, not knowing what conversation is going on between the two of you and seeing your recent comment on the BK talk page, JP, my request is that you abide by Misplaced Pages:Civility and Misplaced Pages:No personal attacks in context of the BK and the people associate with itSethie 21:20, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

hey you have to stop telling people that i have been in since i was young and and my mothers in.

cause neither is true.

jesselp 16:11, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Not quite true jesselp, is it? See here; 195.82.106.244 05:13, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

hey dude, again i did not mean to insult you, you said that life is complex, i said a therapist would not agree with you, based on that i suggested you might need, ask a therapist and they would say that EVERYONE needs therapy, one does kid themselfs if they think they are fine. Have you heard of socially disable response, its when we present ourself to sociality in a manner that we thing people will like, to be accepted etc. and generally nowadays people are stuck in this behavior and are not true to themselfs, and basically causes them loads of issues, most people are not aware. if you knew this i;m sure you would have said that same to me, not to insult myself but to benefit. yes we have had our differences, had a banter. but to me i would not actually mind if we were to go out and grab a drink someday. i have no reason not to.

i said that it is not quite true, because in wiki and the bkwus it said bk devotees do xyz, and neither of me or family does. i would not call either us a bk, or would i say that i have left the bk's as i never have really been that involved reflecting back. Whats on google pages , well just becuase i have i the soul on it does not really mean anything, loads of people believe in soul, the actor thing, Shakespeare spoke about it. look at youtube.com and search for crossmack, he speaks about related issues, it would be beneficial.

Its good you have kept tabs on my google page, valuable information. And It good that you let your feelings out. do this more often personally to yourself, and here if necessary. if you want your more then welcome to on my discussion page about anything or i can give you my email or whatever you want, but generally one does not need to relate things of this nature to another person, but you want to,need to then... Really the advice that i give for ones emotional state, i am not saying out of spite.

Again i do apologies.

jesselp 14:16, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

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