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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Simonkoldyk (talk | contribs) at 18:31, 1 December 2006 (moved for more room). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

GPL

Thank you for stepping in. Note that I just removed a link put in by one of the more controversial editors here. It was a selective link from the wayback machine that contained incorrect text that was corrected in a later version of the page. That link is at this wayback machine link, or any later page in the wayback machine. Ti Kan never released the data under the GPL, and he asked for the page to be corrected when he noticed the error. The page was corrected in 1998 about the time of the archive link above. For proof that the database was not released under the GPL, see the oldest extant version of the archive (circa 1994): The accompanying README file and The archive itself. Note that every entry has a copyright notice at the top that says (with varying year, of course):

xmcd 1.0 CD database file

Copyright (C) 1993 Ti Kan

Download the archive and look for yourself if you like. Also download later ones if you like, and you'll see the same thing. This is not the GNU Public License. This is a standard copyright notice. Note that the archive contains no other copyright information. So it's pretty clearly not released under the GPL, which has a very long and distinct document that must be included with the product. Lastly, as anyone with familiarity with the GPL can tell you, you cannot license data under the GPL. It only applies to source code, so the data could not have been legally GPLed, regardless. The GNU Free Documentation License might have been applicable, but it did not exist yet. One last note. Until the day Escient acquired CDDB, the database was wholly owned by Ti Kan, as can be seen in the copyright notice. There was no official CDDB organization until minutes before CDDB was legally acquired. Also, Ti Kan did not run the website, as you can see from the original wayback machine link. It was run by and copyright Steve Scherf, and any error in the text on the page is irrelevant because only Ti Kan would have had the right to release the data under some other license than the one in the database archive package. Steve Scherf 21:00, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

I have replaced the archive.org links, deleted by Scherf, to the original cddb website, and added text to explain why the gpl notice that was on the cddb website for more than a year caused confusion for many users who assumed that the whole service was free. Scherf or other Gracenote employees, please do not selectively delete inconvenient information and make excuses about this issue regarding the gpl, since freedb has been licensed under the gpl for years as well, with no issues that you discuss. Also, please note that the link to the readme file that is posted is undated and could have been changed at any time. If you would like this included, please find one that is dated. Fatandhappy 22:34, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

As the GPL was up for quite a while, it should be included in the article. Its not like it was a week or something it was a year and previous versions of that page also include that information. Although I have deleted the sentance about people being mad about it becoming a private company due to no sources. --Simonkoldyk 22:53, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Okay so I found this dated Nov 10th 1997. I'm currently looking for other sources that can verify this. Although I think the confusion should still be written in the article; but, not quite in a way to say that is was ever licensed under the GPL. Steve and Fatandhappy, I would ask that you do not edit this part unless you discuss your changes here first.--Simonkoldyk 23:06, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Okay I also found this for year 1996 and 1997; while, it does say copyright you Steve, it includes a GPL license and discusses that in the help file. --Simonkoldyk 23:20, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Simonkoldyk, please look at my text above. It has a link to the database itself. The "cddbd" link you refer to above is not the database. That is a link to the CDDB software, which is completely different. There is no dispute that it was GPLed, that's clear. Please look at the database link and you'll see that it's something entirely different. As for fatandhappy's claim that freedb has licensed the data under the GPL: you can attach whatever license you want to anything. You can tape a copy of the GPL to your pet fish and nobody's going to stop you. However, that does not mean you can actually GPL your fish by doing this. This is part of the reason why the GNU organization came up with their documentation license. So your argument is fallacious. In addition, if you simply go to the ftp.x.org page and scroll down you will see the timestamps next to the CDDB database and readme files. You cannot fake the timestamp. Are you accusing the people at ftp.x.org of changing things out and resetting the timestamps, just for me? Or are you accusing someone of somehow breaking in and changing dates on files? I find your attitude that we are somehow capable of things like this very very tiresome. And I'm getting tired of your apparent need to hurt Gracenote any way you can. But if you are determined to continue digging and digging for anything you can, at least cut the inuendo WRT dishonesty. I think it was you (forgive me if I'm mistaken) who questioned the validity of the legal documents on our website. That kind of appalling attitude is oh so tiresome and inappropriate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Scherf (talk • contribs)

Thank you for that clarification, makes sense. --Simonkoldyk 00:27, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

FYI, I was just revisiting my previous paragraph, and I realize it's not necessarily clear who I was addressing. I was addressing Simonkoldyk until the "as for fatandhappy...", after which I was addressing fatandhappy. Sorry, I don't want to seem like I was addressing the wrong person's statement. That was kind of a weird and sudden transition. Steve Scherf 06:29, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Simonkoldyk, thank you very much for helping out here; your fair-mindedness is highly appreciated. Mr. Scherf, you seem to be saying that data cannot be GPL'd, however, according to the GNU (the people who maintain the GPL), "The GNU GPL can be used for general data which is not software, as long as one can determine what the definition of "source code" refers to in the particular case." Do you somehow have better information about the GPL than the GNU? No license is perfect, but the GPL can in fact be used for data. Freedb claims that the entire database is GPL'd and has done so for years without challenge. Furthermore, you seem to be implying that the GNU Free Documentation License was created as a kind of solution to a fictional deficiency in the GPL regarding data. Referring to the same GNU site, however, reveals that the FDL is a "license intended for use on copylefted free documentation. We plan to adopt it for all GNU manuals. It is also suitable for other kinds of useful works (such as textbooks and dictionaries, for instance). Its applicability is not limited to textual works ("books")." Are you trying to insinuate that the database is some kind of "book" or "manual"? Finally, I find it interesting that you, on the one hand, claim that Ti Kan owned the database by virtue of his copyright notice which was hidden away in each database file, not clearly visible to anyone except a person who digs into them. Then, on the other hand you deny the applicability of the GPL for the database even though the GPL is in fact applicable to a database and was clearly posted for a long period of time on the website you created with Mr. Kan's blessing. The fact that the GPL was mentioned on original CDDB website for more than a year did in fact lead many contributors and software developers to believe that the database was intended to be open and free forever - a major reason for the controversy once the data was pulled down and locked away by your sale of the cddb. Fatandhappy 15:38, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

The GPL can be used for "genera data" if its defined as the source code the problem I'm having with that is this readme says nothing about the GPL. Do you have a copy of a readme for the database that has info about the GPL? Even though xmcd is under the GPL it does not automatically make the database it uses under the GPL, it must be specifically defined by its developer. --Simonkoldyk 18:29, 1 December 2006 (UTC)