Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Wknight94 (talk | contribs) at 20:32, 6 December 2006 (→General disgust: I responded nice in the edit you left out). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Another talk page

I'm sorry, but I'm not interested in repeating myself again and again, especially when everyone involved has already clearly made known their position and thoughts. Forgive me if I'm being rude, but another talk page is not needed now, and I fail to see how it would help at all. -- Ned Scott 06:16, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I also don't see how informal mediation is going to be helpful, if we weren't able even to file the request for formal mediation without edit warring on the RFM page. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 21:58, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I wonder how that RFM was supposed to work? It seemed like simply taking the TV-NC discussion and moving it over to the RFM page. What was the point? Were we supposed to be waiting for something? It seemed like people were already making decisions and moving in a direction I strongly disagreed with - and a mediator hadn't even shown up yet! —Wknight94 (talk) 22:25, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I believe that if the mediation had been accepted, a mediator would have taken a look at the situation and tried to find a compromise solution acceptable to all parties. I don't know if such a solution exists, but it would have been good to find out under official sanction. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 02:40, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Statements

Statement by Wknight94

Rather than go into detail about the guideline at WP:TV-NC and WP:D or how Wikiprojects are not to be viewed as splinter groups quietly compromising the standardization of the overall encyclopedia, I'll focus more on the fact that the actual discussion on those subjects has already been done. To my knowledge, the conflict started with a failed move request at Talk:Fire + Water in mid-September. It moved briefly to Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Lost/Episode guidelines in late October before the now-infamous poll was started at WT:NC-TV (it is currently viewable at Misplaced Pages talk:Naming conventions (television)/Episode title RfC#RfC Episode Article Naming conventions. Ned Scott (talk · contribs) publicized the poll at several spots including two places under WP:RFC, and . The poll started as one question with three choices. It evolved into a two-question poll with the first being support or oppose and the second question being a choice between one option or another. Unfortunately that evolution happened while the poll was ongoing. Was the poll executed well? Not exactly. Was it flawed to the point of being meaningless? Definitely not. The results of the first and more contentious question of the poll are plainly visible - 26 supporting the notion that the naming convention should be the same as the general policy - 7 opposing saying that exceptions should be allowed and written into the TV-NC guideline. The meaning of the oppose votes in particular has come into question but clearly the majority of the people involved saw no reason that television episodes shouldn't follow the same general guidelines as the rest of Misplaced Pages. What followed was an endless stream of arguments for invalidating the poll. They included sockpuppetry, incivility, intimidation, etc., but no evidence of any of those affecting the poll itself was ever presented. IMHO, the most persuasive argument was the changing of format and wording during the poll. While I encouraged those who felt that way to look for people who might feel their vote was invalidated, that idea was summarily ignored. So I pursued that avenue myself in a section which can now be found at Misplaced Pages talk:Naming conventions (television)/Episode title RfC 2#Looking for anyone who objects to the last poll. I contacted all 25 of the 26 people (excluding myself of course who supported the first option of the poll and asked them to please respond if they thought they were misrepresented by the original poll. Not a single one of them said they were. To me, that basically ended the discussion. The rest has been repetition and incivility from both sides with side A asking a question, side B seeming to ignore the question, side A becoming irate and uncivil, and finally side B chastising side A for being uncivil. Round and round and round with few variations. That one side is 10 people and the other side essentially two people (with only one attempting real communication) makes the so-called dispute even more ridiculous. That alone should make consensus pretty clear. No matter how it's been sliced, the issue keeps coming up more than 3-to-1 - and yet the 1 keeps on. Any way to kill this thing would be greatly appreciated. —Wknight94 (talk) 04:08, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Step backward

I don't see any reason for this to succeed when formal mediation is likely to fail. I will not be participating. –  Anþony  talk  05:02, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

General disgust

I'm not going to go on and on about my reasons, but I just wanted to say that this long, bitter, very personal and abusive debate has soured me completely on Misplaced Pages, and I am drastically reducing my editing as a result. The whole thing is a tempest in a teapot, on a trivial issue, yet I see people behaving as if it were a debate on abortion or something. Admin behavior in particular has been scandalously bad, even expanding into very personal issue-unrelated side attacks that are clearly meant vindictively (just one example, here). Throughout this conflict, I didn't even state my position (which I hadn't decided yet), yet I got lumped into one side, and comments were directed at me as well (e.g., here). Bullying. Shame on Misplaced Pages and shame on the participating admins for not defusing this situation and (in at least one case) for escalating it repeatedly. -- PKtm 16:29, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

One (hopefully last) follow-on remark to this. I was promptly (as I expected, frankly, given the history on this) attacked for the above post by one of the key participating admins in the ongoing dispute, here, who called the above "unsolicited hit-and-run allegations". Case in point. I'm outta here. -- PKtm 19:50, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Your generalities and quotes out of context are not helpful in the least. You leave a message like the one above and then, rather than discuss the policy issues I raised or discuss the options to have someone else address them in my place (points that I raised in my first response to you which you managed to not include here), you respond by essentially telling me to leave everyone alone and then "I have nothing further to say to you on this matter". I don't know if this little exchange was meant to be some session of cathartic venting but I call it attempted hit-and-run. —Wknight94 (talk) 20:32, 6 December 2006 (UTC)