This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Kjvenus (talk | contribs) at 16:31, 7 December 2006 (Next superpower). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Reference Desk

December 4

infinite tip

This may be an odd question:

First. Suppose I buy something, say hot chocolate, from a cafe for 10 $, and I tip 1$. I've just given a tip of 10%, right? (1/10=10%) Now, suppose I get a free drink (from a generous employer at Christmas) and tip 1 $. I spent 0 $, tipped 1 $, so I've given an infinite tip, right? (1/0=infinite) Duomillia 00:02, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

1/0 isn't infinite, it's undefined. As Division by zero says, "n ordinary (real number) arithmetic, the expression has no meaning.". -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 00:06, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

So, if I tip 100 $ for the free drink, the hundred dollars would be meaningles? ;) Duomillia 01:40, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

But your tip could be said to approach infinity (in percentage, that is); it is as close to infinity as you care to make it so the bartender is a lucky man indeed! Merry Christmas!! --Justanother 00:10, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Interesting concept to be told around the table. --Proficient 01:00, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Straying a little from the original question, I was thinking today about tips. It's standard practice to tip a particular percentage -- usually 10, 15, or 20 percent. However, isn't the idea of tipping to provide a little reward to your server? Psychologically, I'm sure they're not too worried about what particular percentage you've decided on. A nice even dollar, two dollars, or five dollars seem to me to be an appropriate amount to tip for your single-person meal. Or, if you're paying the bill and tip together, just leave a $20 if your bill is for $17.35. Saves picking up a bunch of nickels and dimes.

Of course if you're paying with plastic none of this applies. :) Theavatar3 01:43, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually, from what I do and what I've noticed others do, paying with plastic pretty much follows paying with cash; you round up to the nearest buck or, for a cheap meal, maybe half-buck. As far at the attitude of servers; I am sure that most of them feel that, overall, their tips are related to their attitude, even if they do not always act as if they know. --Justanother 02:20, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

You don't have to tip at a catered party: the person paying the caterer tips the staff, especially if they're asked to stay later than originally agreed. If you tip on a "freebie", though, you tip on the value, not the cost. For instance, the owner of a restaurant gives you dessert "on the house". You still tip the waiter, based on what the dessert would have cost if you had paid for it. Also, in the U.S., waiters are required to pay taxes on a certain percentage of the checks as if they received that amount in tips whether they did or not. -THB 02:15, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Off of Theavatar3's comment. In the US wait staff isn't payed minimum wage, so tipping is their main source of payment for the work they do. So the percentage does mean a lot to them. If you tip poorly and come back to the same place enough, ALL the wait staff there will know you're a bad tipper and treat you as such (they talk to each other a lot). Also, in my experience, over tipping (say 20-25%) somewhere you go a lot can get you a lot of privileges and free desserts and drinks etc. So tip good! And one mre thing, I've read an article once that generally girls get tipped more then boys irrespective of the service quality. Hurray! --Cody.Pope 05:21, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

If by "infinite" you mean "lousy", then the answer is yes. ☢ Ҡi∊ff⌇↯ 05:30, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

The percentage method seems inadequate for determining tips. Let's take two scenarios:

• You order a 50 cent cup of coffee, with free refills, get excellent service, sit and talk with the waitress for a half hour, get advice on where to get your car fixed, and directions on how to get there. You consider this excellent service, so give her a 20% tip, which comes out to one thin dime.

• Your group of 10 goes to a fancy restaurant for brunch, and you all order the buffet. The waitress does everything properly, but doesn't really have much to do but write up the bill, which comes to $200. Does she deserve a $40 tip for that ? StuRat 10:32, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Comment Does it really cost 50 cents for a cup of coffee with free refills in the States? That's about 26p. Gosh that's cheap. If you tipped her a few hundred % it'd still be cheap. How do I emigrate? --Dweller 10:39, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

No, it is about $1.50 but refills are still free at most places (I don't know about Starbucks because I don't really like their coffee and never asked for one). --Justanother 12:09, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

There is a diner near me that offers coffee, with free refills, for 50 cents. I can't believe they make money off that, it's likely a loss leader, to get people into the diner, assuming they are likely to buy food once there. StuRat 19:06, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I would never leave less than a dollar tip even for a single cup of coffee that cost 75 cents at the counter in a cheap dirty diner in a small town in the middle of the country when the place was empty in the middle of the day. A dime tip would be a pointed statement that you were dissatisfied. And no, you don't tip the same percentage for a buffet. Did the waitress refill beverages or remove dirty plates? I can't imagine leaving less than $1.00 per person if the waitress did anything more than just write the check. I especially like the comment "if by infinite you mean lousy....." -THB 12:43, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Off topic to the original question, but I thought I'd share a story of a naive American (me) in Dehra Dun, India. No one in the hotel except me and a bunch of Russian contractors (this was 1987) who sat together at a big table by the wall. My first dinner I sat by the window, with a view of the Himalayas. Then I went into the bar, where I had 3 beers (for irrelevant reasons I needed the drink!) which cost about US $7. I was the only one in the bar, the bartender was attentive and kept my bowl of crackers well filled. I left the equivalent of $10, a $3 tip (I later learned that the bartender probably made about US$500 per year). Next morning at breakfast, all the tables by the window were reserved, so I sat in the middle, until the waiter in broken English made it clear that all the tables were reserved for me! It went like that for the whole week I was there. Cheers Geologyguy 16:27, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

That's so awesome. :) Indian people are so loveable, I find. Theavatar3 17:35, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

When I was last in San Francisco, visiting from Scotland, we were recommended a seafood restaurant on Pier 39. The waitress was so intent on her nail varnish conversation with her colleagues, she ignored us so noticeably and eventually served us with badly presented and nearly cold clam chowder with such a disdainful attitude that when the bill arrived, I paid it with cash, and left a single cent coin in her check book. As we were leaving, she opened the book to see how magnanimous we had been and the insults she threw our way were vituperous. Eventually I calmed her down and advised her that I had just done her, her waitressing career and her employer's future business a great big favour, and given her a lesson she would never forget. And I also reminded her that the cent was by far in excess of what she deserved. I hope she reads this and responds.

I don't blame you for your actions, but I have to wonder if she acted disdainfully because of treatment she received from previous European guests. I once knew a guy who worked as a waiter in S.F., and he told me no one ever wanted to serve Europeans, because they tipped so much less than American customers did. Not that it's a legitimate excuse, but she might have figured you weren't going to leave more than 10% anyway, so she should only do a half-assed job.

I used to live in a Continental European country with generally really bad service (much worse than France). In this country, people generally don't tip more than 10%, and more often they just round the bill up to the nearest round number and leave the balance as a tip. The subject of tips was always one of dispute between the Americans and Europeans in my group. I tried to argue that if customers in the country started tipping like Americans, the waiters and waitresses might start acting like servers in the U.S. -- that is, not require a flare gun to get their attention. Considering the standard of service typical in that European country, the 20% extra we "have" to pay in America is well worth it. -- Mwalcoff 00:28, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

While I don't take issue with the English poster above, I would say that generousity is never, ever inappropriate, and is always better than 'teaching a lesson'. Theavatar3 17:00, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I do take your point, but my wife and I invariably leave a reasonable tip wherever we eat out. In Edinburgh where we live (I am English and my wife is Scottish) we generally avoid restaurants that employ locals, because the servers are on minimum wage - expect poor tips, if any - and so don't deliver due to the low expectations they have developed - so there is a vicious circle. So, we eat in places where the servers are largely transient gap year employees - mainly Australians, New Zealanders (and never the twain shall be cross-identified - call them Antipodeans to be on the safe side), Americans, Canadians, Italians, Portuguese, Spanish, but never French - they are so rude and disdainful I am surprised they even get paid, and South Africans - brilliant. Those mentioned groups, minus the French, invariably give such wonderful service in a non-subservient and naturally friendly way that it would be unthinkable to leave a poor tip - yet they also invariably say that they didn't expect to be paid one as they are being paid by the proprietor for doing the work anyway. Do the locals learn? No - because we had the "Peasants Revolt" remember, and genetically, we consider giving good service subservient. Maybe that explains the problem between US servers and British diners?

Interesting, I never thought about it that way. I have to say, though, that I've experienced fairly good service in the UK, despite the poor tips the servers receive. The only exception was at an Indian restaurant in Bristol, where the waiter kept saying, "Yes, please," instead of "Hi, how can I help you?" and looked at me like I was crazy when I asked for salad dressing. My English friends had to explain that that's the way Indian restaurants in Britain operate, and that you're not supposed to order salad there! -- Mwalcoff 01:08, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I think this is related to the phenomenon of 'shucking and jiving' of the African-American experience.

It is easy to be benevolent when you have a history of being well-fed. A lower-class person who comports themselves with benevolence is to be treasured far beyond the gentry. Theavatar3 17:07, 5 December 2006 (UTC) Theavatar3 17:10, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Sounds like our Hawaiian/Californian friend who stayed with us for a week last year and got really upset when the waiter(esses)(servers) didn't know what to do when he incessantly ordered "Ranch" with everything. In fact, he became so incensed that on his return to San Diego, he shipped us a large consignment of "Ranch", with the shipping cost far exceeding the product cost - I suspect to educate us. Mind you, I do believe that less than 10% of Americans ever venture outside the United States?

I think that's a bit low, although many US citizens may only travel as far as Canada, Mexico, or the Caribbean. However, in this age of terrorism (and the horrible flight conditions which have resulted), 10% might be accurate in the future. StuRat 07:33, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Remember that although it did not carry a nasty catch-all phrase, what came before 9/11 was worse yet. See grunge, Fight Club, Bosnia, Kosovo. Theavatar3 17:15, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps this is a little late to respond, but noone has yet mentioned this: I was under the impression that TIPS was an acronym meaning, To Insure Prompt Service. Obvious interpretation, I think, even though it might perhaps more correctly be called TAPS...To Assure Prompt Service! Just a thought. Dave172.135.3.189 00:55, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I suspect that is retrospective folk etymology. There is not the same cultural imperative about tipping in Australia as seems to be the case in other countries, so we have less established rules about when/if/how much etc. It certainly happens, but not to the same extent as in the USA. If people tip waiters who provide good service because their standard wages are quite low, do they apply the same philosophy to other tradionally low-paid people such as hairdressers? JackofOz 01:39, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I know I generally tip the people who give me haircuts and whatnot, and I'm pretty sure that there are quite a few people in Canada who do so. Generally, however, fast food places and shops which do not sell food don't seem to have tips. Also, currently in Indonesia, tips seem to be averaging about 1000rp (pretty close to that flat dime mentioned above), but the people appreciate it a lot. Crisco 1492 06:18, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Note one oddity of US tax law is that the wait staff must pay taxes based on assumed tips, as the government doesn't trust them to report tips honestly. Thus, a particularly unpleasant and incompetent waiter or waitress, who gets no tips as a result, can actually end up owing more in taxes on their tips than they made in tips. StuRat 12:29, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

And the other nasty thing about tips in restaurants that automatically add them as a chargeable percentage of the commestible bill is that the tipper is left to wonder whether the tips go to the server, the staff, the staff including the management, the manangement for redistribution equitably among the whole staff - (servers and others), the management for redistribution to the staff to make wages up to statutory minimum wages level, or just to the management. This customer (me) was once threatened with police action in London when such behaviour occurred. I scored out the percentage service element on the bill and proferred payment for the balance, whilst offering my voluntary and well-deserved tip to the server himself. The manager/owner threatened to call the police so I invited him to do so, ordered more drinks, sat down to enjoy them, squatted his table, and prepared to wait the requisite 3 hours for the police to arrive. After half-an-hour the stupid manager/owner realised he was powerless to surcharge my bill in any way, and also accepted that the police may not intervene in a civil law action (which this was); they are limited to criminal action intervention only (though I reminded the manager/owner that his attempt to surcharge my bill without my agreement amounted to extortion which is a criminal action - and he also realised that the longer he procrastinated conceding defeat the longer he was going to be denied the opportunity of re-releasing the table to other customers. The result - I had a much longer and far more entertaining dinner than would have otherwise been the case - he got paid the advertised cost for the food and drink he had provided - which to be fair was quite good - he saw how crass his unreasonable stance really was; the server got a handsome tip - in cash, and I got the immense satisfaction of seeing the manager/owner squirm whilst pleading with me to leave, whilst the server (behind him) gave me a wink of approval and a great big smile of thanks.

many movies,many heroes and villians

what do you think are some of the greatest movie heroes and the greatest movie villians of all time

One great villain leaps out-Erich von Stroheim, the 'man you love to hate'. Clio the Muse 00:17, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

For baddies, I like , Alan Rickman (esp in Closet Land), Gary Oldman (esp in Léon (film)), Peter Stormare (saw him in Constantine (film)). Don't know about for all time but they are great ones. --Justanother 02:31, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

AFI's 100 Years… 100 Heroes & Villains sorry no Akira, Ivan the Terrible (film) or Aguirre, the Wrath of God included. meltBanana 02:45, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, the AFI list is for American films. User:Zoe|(talk) 19:56, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I can think of five movies that work really well (realistically) in how the heroes and villains play off on one another: Heat, The Last of the Mohicans, Rob Roy, Star Wars (ep 4-6), and Zatoichi. Theavatar3 17:39, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

The best is when, like Clio said, there are villains that you love to hate. Guy Ritchie's two gangster films (Snatch and Lock Stock) are like that, and Hayao Miyazaki's ouvere doesn't even really have villains as such (e.g. Princess Mononoke). Theavatar3 17:46, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Goldfinger

Bond: Do you expect me to talk?

Goldfinger: No, Mr. Bond, I expect you to die.

User:Zoe|(talk) 19:56, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, Auric is one of my favourites too. I was talking about this exact scene only last night with my partner.Everyone, it's villain.  :) JackofOz 01:19, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Ah, Goldfinger. Thanks for the correction. User:Zoe|(talk) 02:56, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Jews

Why do so many jews lend money/bank? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.164.200.130 (talk • contribs)

See Ashkenazi Jews. Basically, in medieval times, Christians were not allowed to lend money at interest for religious reasons. Therefore European Jews took up the slake and provided a needed service. So tradition may play a part along with other cultural factors. --Justanother 02:58, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually, the historical and religious issues are better covered under Usury. --Justanother 03:04, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I think the OP is using the present tense. He or she is wrong. It's an old stereotype, based on the history Justanother quotes. Today, there are of course some Jews working in the banking sector, but you're just as likely to find them working in just about any other of the professions. And the number of Jewish bankers in any country other than Israel will be massively outweighed by the number of non Jewish. --Dweller 10:05, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, it is certainly a stereotype. And when you say "in banking" what does that really mean in today's complex corporate economy. Today money is lend by corporations, not individuals and corporate ownership is mostly a function of rate of return and large investors like mutual funds and insurance firms not medieval history. Maybe if you go back 100 years you can say something about the makeup of bankers. The closest thing you could do today would be an ethnic survey of CPAs. --Justanother 12:06, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't think Jews are disproportionately involved in banking per se anymore, at least in America. I think if you wanted to find fields where there are a lot of Jews, you might want to look at medicine, law, politics, academia and education, entertainment, accounting and retailing. But there are Jewish people in every profession. There are Jewish taxi drivers, cops, firefighters, dishwashers, football players and chicken sexers. OK, I've never met a chicken sexer, let alone a Jewish one, but I'm sure there's got to be at least one Jewish chicken sexer. -- Mwalcoff 00:21, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

French Underground

when the Normandy Invasion took place, was the code to the french underground,"it wounds my heart with a mon------? anger"? or, what was it?

The second line, "Bercent mon coeur d'une langueur monotone" (wound my heart with a monotonous langour), transmitted late on June 5, meant that the attack was to be mounted immediately.

from Normandy invasion. --Justanother 03:57, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Do abbreviations qualify as shorthand?

Although I don't know any formal systems of shorthand, I use a lot of both standard and personal abbreviations when I take notes (acctt for accountant, emp for employee, rcvd for received, dmsss for dungeonmistresses, shdtvbn for should not have been, etc.). Cd a sys of abbrs like this be cons'd s'hand? NeonMerlin 04:14, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

"Dungeonmistress" is a word you use a lot? --Optichan 04:32, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I took that as a joke, but hey, who knows? NeonMerlin could be into fantasy or roleplaying or BDSM or fantasy roleplaying BDSM. I don't judge.—WAvegetarian•(talk) 04:38, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Yeah that stuck out for me too o_o See Shorthand. Apparently what you use isn't true shorthand because shorthand is a different character set (like cursive is to print) --froth 04:40, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I had to look up "dungeonmistresses" as well just to see what that was. --Proficient 05:00, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

It's not a word I use a lot. I have plenty of abbreviations planned out in case I should ever need to use them. NeonMerlin 05:10, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't agree that shorthand has to use symbols in order to be considered such, but it does have to be a system of script made up of time saving shortcuts, so IMO you'd have to be using almost exclusively abbreviations in order for it to be a shorthand system. Anchoress 05:32, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

IF U CN RD THS U CN BCME A SCRTRY & GT A GD JB. No, it's a whole different way of transcribing sounds. -THB 06:00, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

ND YU CN PRBBLY RD HBRW WTHOT VWL PNTS. 64.90.198.6 00:19, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

See Speedwriting --ColinFine 08:15, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Abbreviations are only useful if the reader understands them. So if the notes are for your personal reading then it doesn't really matter, but if you expect over people to understand what is being say things like Dmss are not going to make sense unless it is a commonly agreed upon abbreviation. This is a major problem that businesses suffer with - they use abbreviations and acronyms in inappropriate places and people are unable to decipher them (though sometimes they are a simple way of making information semi-secure from people who don't know the meaning). there is a fine line between abbreviating to save effort inputting and having that saved energy make the reading take twice as long... ny156uk 19:04, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

"Chasing dragons with plastic swords"

This line is from the song "A Change," from Sheryl Crow's eponymous album. Does anyone have an idea what it means? I don't think it refers (at least not specifically) to LARP, somehow. NeonMerlin 05:09, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Child's play? Lots of kids have cheap plastic swords. --Justanother 05:34, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't know the song, but to me it suggests both childs' play/fantasy, and also going into battle without adequate weaponry. --ColinFine 08:17, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Chasing the dragon has another meaning as well, but I have no idea whether she intended the line to refer to that. --Richardrj 08:30, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

There's also 'tickling the dragon's tail', which refers to lowering a plutonium hemisphere onto another plutonium hemisphere. Pretty blue lighting effects occur. Drop the screwdriver, though, and you're in for a world of agony. Theavatar3 18:42, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

You want intriguing Sheryl Crow lyrics -- how about the next one from that song: "Jack-off Jimmy / everybody wants more" (!)

As for the original question, the phrase conjures up images of staggering foolhardiness, if the dragon is dangerous. If it's not, then the pursuit is harmless, fun, but probably a little childish. At any rate it's a gentle critique of contemporary American mores. And by contemporary, I mean ~1999.Theavatar3 17:44, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Overpass Fence Extensions

I've noticed something curious on the Ohio Turnpike, strange "fence extensions" that stick out from each overpass. They look as if they can be folded back down, but were all "deployed" over the Thanksgiving Holiday (last week). This area does get heavy lake effect snows, so I was wondering if they could serve some related purpose ? I was guessing that they are to catch slush that splashes down onto the highway from trucks on the overpass. Here's a diagram:

              | U |
              | N |
              | D |
              | E |
          |   | R |   | <- Fence Extension
----------+---+---+---+-----------
          O V E R P A S S
----------+---+---+---+-----------
          |   | P |   |
              | A |
              | S |
              | S |

I can provide pics, if needed. Does anybody have any idea what these are for ? StuRat 09:49, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Isn't it something that's there to prevent people (vandals) on foot getting onto the side of the overpass (so they can drop stuff onto the cars in the underpass)? -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 12:11, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

No, it's like 20 feet in the air, so that can't be it. StuRat 12:22, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I tend to agree with the previous with the addition of preventing tagging of the overpass. Taggers will climb. --Justanother 12:44, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Most likely a snow thing. In Canada we put up solid fences along the overpass to prevent snow being pushed by the plows off the overpass. --Zeizmic 12:41, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I think it may be to stop people from throwing themselves into the under pass to commit suicide (Seriously) 8-)--Light current 00:34, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

No, they are too far away from the underpass for that, maybe 30 feet (10 meters). StuRat 06:47, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

The speculation here is appreciated, but is there any way I could get an authoratative answer ? That is, who would know for certain which of these reasons is correct ? StuRat 06:50, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Try the highways people. Do they have a website?--Light current 07:08, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

W700i

I recently bought a new sony ericsson W700i. The included PC suite and the cd rom are corrupt. How can I transfer java games from my PC to my phone via the USB? I do not have any disk 2 phone software. Where should I copy the files of the game? Please give an elaborate reply..

You can download replacement software here. --Justanother 14:09, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Italian fish

We have seen a fish on Italian restaurant menus that we cannot find anywhere else to define what type of fish it actually is. Our host at Piccolo Angelo in NYC has Brazzini on the menu and claimed it was from Genoa, Italy. Can anyone help identify this fish for me? Vincent Lindgren

They had it misspelled - it is branzini, a Mediterranean or European Sea Bass; served topped with sea salt, recipe. Much more here

Branzini, a.k.a. Branzino, a.k.a. Loup de Mer ("Sea wolf"), is a just a plain old Mediterranean sea bass. They are usually about a pound whole, so they're perfect for a dinner for two. Have your fishmonger gut and scale your loup for you, and you'll be able to cook it up in 15 minutes flat.

--Justanother 15:09, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Cashing Out Retirement

Hi, if I left my job and wanted to cash out the retirement a tax I had been paying into how could I do that, or could I do that?

This is a legal-tax-accounting question that cannot be answered in a global forum because: 1. We don't do it. 2. We don't know where you are.... You could ask the Human Resources of your ditched company. They are forced to be nice to you. :) In almost all cases the pension can be transfered or some such thing. --Zeizmic 16:16, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I could answer general, high-level questions about U.S. retirement accounts, probably by pointing you to the proper IRS publication. You would need to know what type of account you have, in detail. If it is truly a "tax" you've been paying, like Social Security, you can't "get it back" until you retire or become disabled. -THB 21:29, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, you can. Contact the trustee that has your qualified plan and they'll let you know how. You will generally want to read the Special Tax Notice on retirement plan payments issued from the IRS and direct any tax questions to your CPA or tax advisor. ~snak

Deliberate damage to a page

What happens if we realise that someone is editing a page just to destroy it?

I assume you mean on Misplaced Pages. In simple cases of WP:VAND someone will WP:REVERT it. You can do it too; be sure to know first what vandalism is. In particular differences of opinion are not, see WP:CON. Weregerbil 15:56, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Or you can report it here. Thanks.--Shantavira 18:08, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Bear in mind you cannot really 'destroy' a page; everything is light and trivial here on Misplaced Pages. If anything important is tampered with, it will invariably be noticed within minutes, corrected, and the culprit will be dealt with. And, vandalism does serve a useful purpose -- those that contribute constructively will feel validated that their work is important enough for someone to want to mess with. If Misplaced Pages didn't have vandals, that would likely mean that only sober, serious researchers looked at it. But of course the goal is to expand Misplaced Pages ad infinitum, both in content and audience. Theavatar3 18:53, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

ian...

1. can someone explain to me what is voip{voice over internet protocol}in laymans language
2. recently we were doing a course on windows 2000.we created our own user accounts and we logged in as administrators and were told to each have their own passwords.the next day i dint attend class,and am told the teacher actually hacked into my computer(is it possible)he dint use any software.he just tried some paswords.so my question is can some put a pasword that overides other paswords or sumthin,n he dint open the cpu.he just typed n 5 minutes or less later he was in...explain

1. VOIP describes a voice signal, being carried over an Internet Protocol network (i.e. the Internet itself). That's basically it.
2. Was this some sort of proof by him that it's possible, or why would he do this? If he himself had a system administrator account, he could use it to gain access to yours, since they can do that. Otherwise he may have just tried a bunch of common passwords and figured your own out because of its weakness, though this would have been easier for him with some sort of software. Passwords should have some completely random element to them to stop this type of attack. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 16:49, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Refer to computer ref desk.martianlostinspace 16:58, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

design standards for 1991 chevrolet head rests

Would anyone know where I could obtain the design standards for headrests - specifically for a 1991 chevrolet sprint convertible? I need to know how much force it would take to break one. I was rear-ended by a large truck 18 months ago and suffer major headaches and shoulder pain, but the insurer claims there was little damage. They keep downplaying the fact that my head broke the headrest in the accident (they willingly paid to repair the headrest!) I've tried Transport Canada and GM but neither could/would help me. GM said that sort of information is not published and would not be released to the general public, yet Transport Canada said only GM would have that info. Now it seems to me that there were design standards in 1991, so where would I find them? If I could say to the insurer ..."this is how much force these headrests were designed to take before they break", then I would have a fighting chance to prove that since my head was the object the headrest hit in order to get broken, then my medical claims are justified. Thanks very much for your help graceyjo 20:18, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Technically, those are considered trade secrets and no automobile company will reveal them, unless they are legally required to. I think your best bet would be to seek legal counsel, especially an attorney who specializes in auto accidents.--Folksong 03:09, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Some safety organization might have tested them, like NHTSA. You could try asking them. StuRat 07:24, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Culture Warrior

The US is caught in a tug of war between its contradicting cultures. Bill orielly found a very daisy topic to debate on. It brings a clear confusion today in the minds of majority of westerners whether freedom needs to be valued or there is just impatience for desires. The conflict between the traditional views and those of the secular progressive clearly reflects the confusion. It highlights the importance of education amongst the youth. Liberty is being abused. America wants to fall back on traditional values to reflect a better perspective of the american values in the world. What exactly is the underlying themeline behind the book? Does America want to offer freedom or materialistic freedom or its perception or mindset at looking at things in life?

Or will the traditionals start stringent measures of kicking out the illegals and become racists?

20:41, 4 December 2006 (UTC)~~

What book? 202.168.50.40 20:43, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Culture Warrior --Justanother 20:47, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Your question is not phrased in a way that makes a lot of sense. We can try to help you with specific questions, if you make it clear what the specific question is. If you just want to discuss opinions, this is a matter for a debate forum, not Misplaced Pages. Friday (talk) 20:53, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

The appropriate question I see here would be regarding just what is the theme of the book. Probably belongs on the Humanities desk. --Justanother 20:59, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I take the view that America and 'the terrorists' are the same culture -- the culture of desperatation, confusion, and boredom. Theavatar3 05:39, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Is that a comment on the nature of the theme of the book? --Justanother 05:41, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

All books are purely autobiographical. Theavatar3 17:22, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

The point of concern here is the extreme to which the west tries to deliberate on such issues wasting time on pointless matters. The americans went into Iraq to give freedom and the irony is that today their emphasis is on traditional perspective, which emphasizes on curbing freedom of the minority communities especially muslims and kicking out the illegal mexicans who also want to aspire for a superior quality of life... 20:42, 5 December 2006 (UTC)~

Life and the World

Why does the end of the world often come? Will there be a beginning afterwards? 71.31.154.248 21:35, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Do you want a religious viewpoint or a scientific viewpoint? From a scientific viewpoint, it hasn't come yet (as we know of), and on a religious viewpoint, you could read up on Apocalypse. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.249.67.249 (talk) 21:50, 4 December 2006

If you are interested in the scientific viewpoint, you could ask on the Science Reference Desk, and if in the religious viewpoint, the Humanities Desk. -THB 23:37, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Soprry we must only give factual answers --- no viewpoints anymore! 8-(--Light current 01:24, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

If this was meant as a scientific question, see oscillating universe. StuRat 07:19, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Maimonides states in the Guide for the Perplexed that the world will probably not end, but there is no way to prove one way or the other. see wikisource:The Guide for the Perplexed (Friedlander)/Part II/Chapters#CHAPTER XXVII.Jon513 17:29, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Go find a jehovah witness.

If am not mistaken, the Japanese samurai realized that the end of the world was already upon them. This was evidenced in the fact that eye treatment for females yielded favorable results when applied to males. Theavatar3 18:49, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Scientology a cult?

I personaly think that scientology is a cult, but I am wondering whether other people think that way. It seems to me, that it at least is dangerous to babies (because of the honey for babies under one year) but I am really curious whether other people think so. Thank you for your opinions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.249.67.249 (talk) 21:49, 4 December 2006

"Cult" is a bit of a loaded term. See Scientology and cult for more info. It wouldn't be appropriate for us to get into our own personal opinions here- that's a matter for a forum, not an encyclopedia. Friday (talk) 21:54, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

The Misplaced Pages RD isn't a discussion board, but you will find one regarding the negative side of Scientology on THIS SITE, I'm sure they'll welcome your input. Anchoress 21:55, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

thank you :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.249.67.249 (talk) 22:01, 4 December 2006

You are certainly entitled to your personal opinion. I just hope it is based on a greater exposure to Scientology and Scientologists than Clambake and YTMND. The baby formula was developed in the 50's before anything was known about infant botulism (a very rare disease, BTW). Most Scientologists I know do not use it; they breastfeed or use the much better commercial formulas that are now available. That seems hardly a reason to condemn a group of people you don't know. --Justanother 22:18, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Many people agree with you that Scientology is a harmful cult but I have not heard such an argument based on feeding babies honey. Another article you might read that is probably linked to from those already mentioned is Xenu. -THB 23:36, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately, IMO, the wikipedia articles were mainly written by critics of Scientology and reflect their viewpoints. While experienced Scientologists such as myself are working on removing ingrained POV, there is still a VERY lot of work to be done. Look at the critics' sites but do not be afraid of or biased against looking at the What is Scientology site too. Think for yourself! --Justanother 00:04, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

In order to do my part to maintain order and prevent this becoming a soapbox or forum for discussion I will not contribute further on this thread but, as always, welcome communication on my talk page. --Justanother 00:09, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

People who go into the Scientology fold and then reveal its inner workings to the world at large are said to engage in 'squirreling' by the betrayed members. This shows that the tenants of Scientology are not meant for the world at large -- they are 'secret teachings'. I think if any line were to be drawn between 'cult' and 'religion', it would be that the latter is inclusive while the former is not. Theavatar3 05:53, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it's clear that a high degree of secrecy is a feature most people associate with cults. StuRat 07:16, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

The practice of requiring money (usually for "readings" or "classes") to go up in "levels" is not something most people would accept in a legitimate church. StuRat 09:53, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Also, how "weird" the beliefs of a church are determines whether they are accepted as a legit sect or called a cult. And some Scientology beliefs, like "an Operating Thetan VIII (the highest OT level released so far) can purportedly kill with a thought", are definitely "out there". StuRat 09:53, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Yet another factor is age, with older religions being taken more seriously. Scientology is quite recent (dating from 1952), so lacks the legitimacy of an old, established religion. (Note, I don't personally agree with this standard for defining a cult.) StuRat 09:53, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

One thing that might be argued to be in favor of Scientology being a mainstream religion is that they have many, seemingly mainstream, members, who are well-known to the public, like John Travolta and Kirstie Alley. This isn't an accident, however, as they actively seek celebrities in order to achieve this sense of legitimacy. StuRat 09:58, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

No smoke without fire. It seems to be like some sort of pyramid selling scheme involving 'new age' ideas - wierd.87.102.32.250 12:25, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

To be a pyramid scheme/Ponzi scheme, the people at higher levels would need to get paid when they recruit people at the lower levels. I'm not aware of this happening, are you ? StuRat 12:43, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Well according to the wikipedia article people get paid commission to recruit others, so there is an element of cash incentive. --Charlesknight 22:25, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

The fact that the first approach of scientology is often psychological profiling through detailed questionnaires (that show an genial understanding of human psychology) and then tailoring further contacts according to the personality traits gives scientology an enormous power of influence on its selected targets (its a modern form of confession : know the sins of your parish gives you enormous power on the flock and instructing them to perform tasks irrelevant to the sin secures your influence on them). Scientology wants to make its adepts better and freer humans (or is it thetans?) and many of its participant must believe their doing good to the world. The fact that their mythology is a compression of fashionable 50's sci-fi themes with salvatory teleology with a tendency towards total control doesn't help its credibility in my eyes. Keria 13:30, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Here are the questions for their 1st test.

• 5. Do you intend two or less children in your family even though your health and income will permit more? = have yougot extra cash?
• 29. Would you rather give orders than take them? = are you going to be a manager or just a regular sheep?
• 31. Could you agree, to strict discipline ? = how much can we control you?
• 47. Have you any particular hate or fear? = so we can exploit it?
• 52. Would you "buy on credit" with the hope that you can keep up the payments? = are you any good at managing money?
• 28. Are you considered warm-hearted by your friends? 64.Are you normally considered "cold"? 69.Does emotional music have quite an effect on you? = which carrot are we going to give you to make you join us?
• 88. If we were invading another country, would you feel sympathetic towards conscientious objectors in this country? that one is just great who's the "we" anyway?
• 89. Are there some things about yourself on which you are touchy? If thats not planning a good conversation...
• 99. Do you prefer to take a passive role in any club or organization to which you belong? etc... and a hundred more.

Now the problem with sects and totalitarian organisations is one could ask wether they might have some beneficial aspects to them, beneficial to society or the individual. I'm having a hard time finding one for scientology (isn't it a great name for a sect reminds me of truthiness. Keria 17:01, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

There are a set of 4 lectures on this topic on google video. one, two, three, four. Jon513 17:22, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Without addressing any of the issues here I simply comment that this thread has become quite a forum for heavily biased original research and unsupported hate talk and I, for one, am finding it quite offensive. I doubt we would tolerate a similar discussion of the Jews or gays or blacks or, well, anyone, and it speaks perfectly to my remark about ingrained bias against Scientologists on wikipedia. --Justanother 18:32, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

" ... reality has a well-known liberal bias." Stephen Colbert quotes. Keria 21:21, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

searching for definition for phrase "bite me"

Ejfuasu 23:01, 4 December 2006 (UTC)My thirteen year old daughter thinks that it ok to use this term in casual conversation. After argueing with her about it, I decided to get a third party invelved. Please tell me how I can find this phrases meaning. Thankyou for your time. Eric

A very good reference for such things is Urban Dictionary. This is a user edited website for slang terms. You might also be interested in the Wiktionary entry on the term.—WAvegetarian•(talk) 23:08, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Try Urban dictionary entry for Bite mebeaten to the punch by the above. Unfortunately when television shows like The Simpsons freely use these terms, kids will think they are acceptable. Maybe you need to explain that it doesn't matter if it is a swear word or not, telling someone to get lost isn't nice, even if it isn't a swear word. Vespine 23:12, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Ditto on using urbandictionary as a reference. You didn't ask, but my opinion is that it's vaguely sexual but relatively mild as far as foul language goes. Vespine is right, it's the underlying message that is rude, more than the actual choice of words. However, it IS funny when Bart says it. Certainly your daughter shouldn't say it to adults, but if used in a joking or friendly manner between her and her friends, there are worse things for you to worry about. It's probably not worth arguing about because it's not likely you'll win, so consider saving your ammunition for something more immediately harmful. -THB 23:28, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

As a sidenote, I think it's interesting that you think to have a third party (other than the other parent of the child) involved in your parenting. Dismas| 04:57, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

It's a grey area he didn't feel 100% confident with, and I wish my parents had gotten a third opinion occasionally. -THB 05:24, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I appreciate the fact that Eric didn't end the argument with, "I'm right and your parent. You're wrong and my child. This is the end of the discussion as my opinion counts for more than yours." I think it shows good parenting. Eric is teaching his daughter not to abuse power relationships and good dispute resolution tactics. There is also no reason to assume that there is another parent around. —WAvegetarian•(talk) 05:40, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I believe this started off as a rather graphic sexual insult, but has become a very mild insult with time. A similar insult, "bugger" (originally meaning a man who engages in anal sex with boys), has come to have a much more mild meaning in the UK. Another example: "that sucks". StuRat 07:09, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Better placed on Language desk.--Light current 07:11, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

It's also a parenting question, perhaps more so. -THB 07:22, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

It is equivalent to "Eat me!" or "Blow me!" in meaning and in terms of being fighting words. Edison 15:47, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Not in the US. Here, "bite me" is much more mild. StuRat 17:14, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

The problem with that answer is that "blow me", for instance, has (at least) a couple of very different meanings; one sexual, and one indicating surprise. --Tagishsimon (talk) 15:51, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

So that explains Popeye always saying "Blow me down !"...I always wondered about that. :-) StuRat 17:13, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

"Blow me" is only sexual in the U.S. It's extremely vulgar. -THB 17:44, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

A large number of U.S. people are vulgarians. Just like in any other country. JackofOz 01:30, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Popeye is using a nautical reference rather than the sexual term. It may have devolved to an only slightly rude inference in the U.S., but it was definitely a more clever fighting word synonym for the other vulgarities at one point. It was clear what portion of the anatomy the other person was invited to bite. Not, say, the elbow. Edison 15:33, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Hiroshima & Nagaski

Did the restoration of these two cities after their bombing occur on the orginal sites or were they move as a result of the effects of long term radition to other locations?

The original sites. --Wooty Woot? contribs 00:04, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

The Hiroshima Peace Memorial is almost directly beneath where the bomb went off. Vespine 00:08, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

If you go on Google Earth and type in "Hiroshima, Japan" you can match it up exactly with the pictures of the fire damage to Hiroshima from our Hiroshima bombing article. --24.147.86.187 01:28, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Is the radioactive levels on those areas still dangerous today? Joneleth 18:34, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Almost certainly not. I'd rather spend the rest of my days under the epicenter of the blast than smoke a single cigar. Speaking from extreme ignorance and foolishness, though, I might change my mind if I were to actually visit either city, or smoke a single cigar. Theavatar3 18:52, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

</noinclude>

December 5

Peanuts

Hi im the peanut farmer who asked bout storing my peanuts in the forsest. Sum one rubbed out my questin. i have lots of theft from my storeroom so i thot to store my crop in the forast. is that legal? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.111.113.185 (talk • contribs)

It would depend upon the laws wherever it is that you farm peanuts and on who owns the forast. -THB 02:19, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't think your peanuts would be safe in the forest - thieves and wild animals would find them there. --Shuttlebug 02:21, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Im not sure on the legality of storing them. AS THB says, it could depend on who owns the forest. My concern would be more one of protecting your nuts from attack by wild animals. Squirrels apparently would have a taste for your nuts. --Light current 02:26, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Light current, peanuts aren't nuts, they're legumes. I assumed they would be stored in proper containers to protect them from bugs and animals. Surely thieves would have more trouble finding them in the forast than in a storeroom known to contain peanuts. I'm not clear on why someone would steal peanuts. They're quite cheap. It would be more lucrative to steal copper or something. -02:28, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Apparently stealing almonds can be lucrative. User:Zoe|(talk) 03:00, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, farmers are getting ripped off left and right in California and across the country--fuel, machinery, crops. Almonds are significantly more expensive than peanuts. -THB 03:04, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Paying employees (in) peanuts

One suggestion is that you pay your employees (if that's who you suspect of theft), at least partially, in peanuts. For example, you could give them 5 kg of peanuts each a week, and decrease their pay by the cost of those peanuts to you (wholesale cost, not retail). The object here is twofold:

1) To satiate their desire for peanuts, so that they won't feel the need to steal them.

2) To increase their perceived pay, as they think of the value of peanuts as the retail price, which is much greater than the price you pay for them.

You could also increase security, by hiring guards, etc., but that can be quite expensive, and the guards might steal peanuts, too.

As for the legal issues, I would think those peanuts would be legally considered to be "abandoned", and therefore anyone who found them could take them. Also, the police might wonder what you are up to, and suspect you of smuggling drugs. StuRat 06:59, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

What does that say about your employees if you pay them peanuts? 8-)--Light current 07:04, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm sure they will never forget this gesture (especially compared with the other gestures you might have made when finding out they were stealing from you). StuRat 07:11, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

StuRat, I don't think you should be giving legal advice about abandoned property, as that would vary by location, and we don't even know where the OP is, except that he is on a farm and there is a forsest nearby. I think the OP should contact a lawyer specializing in property issues. The lawyer could help with the trespass issues as well. -THB 07:18, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Can you think of any jurisdiction where leaving sacks of peanuts in the forest wouldn't constitute abandonment ? StuRat 09:06, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I just couldn't comment as I am not a lawyer. -THB 16:50, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

The above idea about paying employees in peanuts is how a few companies operate. It may work for the OP. Jack Daniels gives its employees a free fifth every quarter or some such thing. From what I hear, Hershey's Chocolate lets the employees take chocolate. And I've known several people who have worked for Ben & Jerry's who got free pints of ice cream. Something like 2 pints a day. Dismas| 08:27, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't think I would recommend giving away liquor at work, that could have undesired consequences. StuRat 10:03, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Wal-mart apparently pays their workers peanuts. They're going to give them a shirt every five years now that they've capped wages. -THB 15:39, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

There are legends that trolls are fond of peanuts. There should be a Ref Desk for trolls where questions like this could be asked. Edison 15:52, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I did not know that peanuts were native to Scandinavia. Perhaps the original question-poster could clarify the location of the peanut farm near the forast. -THB 16:48, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

It in calhoun county

Which Calhoun County? There are eleven. -THB 20:46, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Risk versus reward

If storing peanuts in the forest makes sense to you, then do it. However, you should be psychologically prepared to have them confisicated, by police, squirrels, or anyone else that wanders upon your cache. Theavatar3 17:26, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

If he buries them underground in the forsest, they will be safer. -THB 17:47, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Where are the Serious Q&A Only Police when you need them?Edison 20:24, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

sheet music

where can i find sheet music for a beginner/int. guitarist, actual free sheet music, i dont care what it is thanks

sheetmusic.org ~~snak3

mudcat.org --Shuttlebug 02:22, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

sibeliusmusic.com has a few free examples, but the majority is not. bibliomaniac15 02:55, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

• If you don't live in too much of a rural area, you probably have a 'brick and mortar' instruments and sheet music store in your vicinity. And since it won't take any shipping costs it will be considerably cheaper than buying online.- Mgm| 11:01, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Does it have to be guitar tabs (is that the right word?) or can it be just chords? eg. Gm=G minor? You will find a lot of guitar chords, comme ca, on "normal" music.martianlostinspace 16:51, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Hmm...basically google "guitar tabs" and you should find plenty of useful sheet music of various difficulties and genres. If you do not know what tabs are then feel free to contact me here as I would be glad to help. — Seadog 04:23, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

POV tags

Not sure I'm asking this in the right place. If not, I apologise. Having read WP:NPOV and related pages through again, I see that it is expected that use of the {{POV}} tag is accompanied by a reasonably full explanation on the talk page of the article. I was wondering is there any concensus that such tags can be removed if no explanation is given (or it is only a very basic ie. "I disagree" comment is made without citing problem areas and explaining the discrepancy)? There is a huge backlog of tags which undermine articles. Many seem to just be added when someone reads the topic which does not support their own POV on the subject. Thanks. WJBscribe 01:45, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Not sure about this one, but I remember reading somewhere that it can be. As a general rule, if you add a tag, you should say why on the talk page. --Wooty Woot? contribs 01:47, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

This isn't the right place for this topic (you might want WT:NPOV) but it seems easier to just answer than try moving it. Like many questions about editing, this is a judgment call. Tags with little or no explanation would generally be safe to remove. When in doubt, explain yourself well on the talk page and you should be fine. Friday (talk) 02:01, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, I will ask at WT:NPOV. WJBscribe 02:34, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

This may be better on the Help desk--Light current 02:02, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I leave POV tags even if no explanation is given if it's obvious. I think the duty to inform potentially naive users is more important than some technicality. -THB 02:33, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

It is sufficient, perhaps even preferred, to give a reason for removing POV tags and the like in the edit history. If you go to a talk page to discuss your change, you will appear to be inconfident in the eyes of others. And if you inconfident in your edit, do not make it at all. Theavatar3 17:28, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

On the contrary, I would say (particularly if the template was added by an anon who is unlikely to come back and see any questions you ask) take bold action if you feel it is probably needed, but make it very clear what you have done and why in the history and talk page. If you ask first in the talk pages of many articles, months will go by with no reply and no action. If you take action and consensus deems it wrong, people won't take it badly if they see your reasoning. If someone reverts you, but you made a positive edit, there is a trail of reason for others to follow and potentially restore your edit. Skittle 23:58, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

edits

Just out of curiousity, how many edits per second (or minutes) are in the recent changes (including new user accounts, deletion logs etc.)--PrestonH 05:11, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

This site claims that in January Misplaced Pages was updated 4,223 times per hour and 110 new users were registered every hour. Thus, it may be safe to estimate 4,500 total events per hour, which is 1.25 per second. –mysid☎ 11:34, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Interesting, I thought it would have been much more. But I guess that goes with the info I found some time ago that that would indicate that most edits are made by what is now maybe 1000 editors and if you figure how many of them are active in any given hour and how many actual constructive edits are made (most articles being fairly stable). Also, my guess is about 75% of edits are very minor or maintenance, vandalism, or repairing vandalizsm. --Justanother 12:40, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Looking at the time stamps at Special:Recentchanges will give you a better idea of what's going on.--Shantavira 13:52, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Of course, some large percentage of the edits are school kids vandalizing Wiki during study hall. An RCPer's work is never done!

Atlant 17:33, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

pal 4 chat

Is there any scope 4 chat in wikipedia..? if so give me the links in detail or directly..? Temuzion 06:13, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

No. Misplaced Pages is not a social networking site. Unless you mean a "chat room" like Misplaced Pages's IRC? --Wooty Woot? contribs 06:24, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Absolutely none.--Light current 06:57, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

What about WP:PUMP and IRC? Anchoress 06:59, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Thats serious discussion 8-(--Light current 07:06, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

AFAIK this desk is the closest you'll get to a Misplaced Pages chat (even though it shouldn't really be used for that purpose), plus you'll learn something every day! However, you might like to browse the Misplaced Pages Fun department for further ideas.--Shantavira 09:32, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually the pump looked to be a little less formal than the RDs when I lookd last. IRC i cant get into it/dont understand it--Light current 15:08, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Depends on topic. See on some popular topics, you see templates at the top of talk pages - limiting the scope of the topic.martianlostinspace 16:47, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

eg. Talk:Microsoftmartianlostinspace 16:48, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Those templates are only clarifying the existing rules on talk pages that have a history of violating them. All talk pages are for discussion to improve the article (or ask questions about the topic that are not answered in the article, so people can include them in the article). You're not supposed to be chatting about the topic generally on any talk pages. Skittle 23:51, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I can't understand the concept of that village pump & IRC...what's this all..? Temuzion 08:41, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Check out this page: WP:IRC. ---J.S 03:19, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Leaving Misplaced Pages due to death threats

How many people per annum leave WP due to so called 'credible' death threats? Ive just been astonished to find someone admitting to this action.--Light current 06:57, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

They admitted leaving because of a death threat or they admitted making a death threat to cause someone to leave? -THB 07:30, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

No leaving of course!--Light current 08:21, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

It's extremely rare, as there are all sorts of checks and balances that can be invoked before a dispute gets that bad. Unfortunately, I guess some users might not know that, or not know where to ask for help.--Shantavira 09:37, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Some of the questions - and not a few of the responses, are enough to bore a person to death.

Yeah esp mine! 8-)--Light current 14:54, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, I suppose, death threats are so extreme that they might be too scared to stay to tell anybody. That way, it's difficult to tell.martianlostinspace 16:44, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Like, say, if you were a publisher of The Satanic Verses? Vespine 22:03, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

CSI:Crime Scene Investigation: Built To Kill, Part 2

Our article on the episode and several other places are unclear about this. What is the significance of the doll picture on the back of the miniature portrait? Is this ever addressed again? Grissom appeared to have an aha moment, but for me it was a very confusing ending. - Mgm| 12:54, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

• Aha, a glance through the upcoming episodes indicate I have to wait for Post Mortem (CSI episode) to show. - Mgm| 13:00, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

search on user

Hi, Can you search the work and articles submitted by one specific user? Can you search the work of a user i e.g. Norway from the English page? br Iris Frøybu 14:50, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

There is a "User Contributions" link on every user page - that'd be the way to do it. --Tagishsimon (talk)

I don't understand the second part of your question. If you are referring to the Norwegian and English Wikipedias, a contributor would need a separate user account for each. They might or might not use the same user name (or IP address) for each account, so it could be difficult to associate their contributions on each Misplaced Pages.--Shantavira 15:31, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I think he means "Can you search within the works of only one user?". If I'm right in that interpretation, I think the answer's no.martianlostinspace 16:43, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

To integrate the above (for my own clarity, too:)):

• (From martianlostinspace) You cannot do a search for keywords in the contributions that a specific user has made (i.e. you cannot do a search by username), but
• (from Tagishsimon) you can get a list of the work and article edits made by a user by going to her user page, and clicking on the "User contributions" link found inside the "Toolbox" on the left. From there on you would have to click on every entry and read it to see what it was.
• (From Shantavira) You cannot search the Norwegian language Misplaced Pages (nor any other language Misplaced Pages) from within the English one, you have to actually browse to the Norwegian Misplaced Pages pages (Norwegian Misplaced Pages (Bokmål)or Norwegian Misplaced Pages (Nynorsk)to do that.
• The user you are searching for can have a different username on every Misplaced Pages that she belongs to.

Is the above correct? -- Seejyb 18:20, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Yup. And you could download copies of any and all wikipedias and knit your own search engine, but you'll have to have considerable coding-fu to be able to do this. --Tagishsimon (talk)

Users can also have multiple usernames and no username at all. -THB 19:45, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks to all of you for clarifying responses. br Iris

admission

Hi! i am looking for admission in any school or college in ontario. I have been in canada for two years,living in Quebec since then. but recently I have moved to ontario. and I am facing many problems in understandinG Ontario's educational system as it is way different from Quebec's. I am over 19, and i still do not have high school diploma. it is because Quebec demands French Sec-5 (equivalent of grade 12) too. so i had to start all over. And now as i have moved, and i no more need any french credits, Could anyone please suggest me what is procedure of admission for a student like me, who needs admission in the mid-stream of course. and what college or school should I approach. I am intented to take business stream. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.52.19.232 (talk • contribs)

I live in Ontario, have kids going to university here, and have no clue what you are talking about. I hope somebody else does, or else you will have to do more work by yourself, such as talking to various admission officers for the colleges and universities. --Zeizmic 16:17, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

In the unusual situation you're in, Zeizmic is giving excellent advice. Talk to the admissions people at a couple of the schools you'd like to go to. You may be the same questioner who asked about not having a high-school diploma a while ago. Canada appears to have GEDs. -THB 16:38, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Please don't take offence at this, but is English your native language? If it isn't, you haven't got far to go, from what I can see in you question. But I would suggest you brush up on some of your English grammar - things like the letter "I" always being a capital letter when it is used as a word by itself. If you did, you might vastly improve your chances of being accepted.martianlostinspace 16:41, 5 December 2006 (UTC) And by the way, it isn't too bad. I've seen a lot, lot worse!martianlostinspace 16:42, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Also, if you aren't a Canadian citizen, that's an issue the admissions office would need to know about. I'm not sure how it works in Canada, but in the US, you would likely need to obtain a student visa to be allowed to stay in the country while in college. Also, you can probably expect to pay more for college than native Canadians. Your English might be good enough, as is, for a Math/Science/Engineering course of study, but not for a major in English Lit, for example. So, you may, or may not, need to improve your English skills first, depending on your intended major. StuRat 16:50, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Zeizmic, do not be discouraged by martian's remarks.

It is no wonder that English visitors are often treated brusquely by the French. Theavatar3 17:31, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

??? Zeizmic is not the OP. How do the French enter the picture?  --Lambiam 06:50, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

any 1 tats read some postz in da internet nows how bad laik english canget u now?

waddup -THB 19:44, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

See also Misplaced Pages:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2006 November 24#Education in Ontario. If you give some feedback on the replies, or in general include all relevant information, it may help to find a good answer.  --Lambiam 06:50, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I didn't mean to offend him/her: if I did, I'm sorry, but I think it was a valid comment. I also asked them not to be.martianlostinspace 18:08, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Telling someone not to be offended before insulting them makes it worse, not better! -THB 18:25, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Worldly newspapers

Hallo! For a market research I need to know how many copies of newspapers are printed daily (or per year) in the world.

Thank you for your answer.

Regards,

Rosa —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.174.59.26 (talk • contribs)

Start with Newspaper. It's a difficult figure to pin down as there are so many newspapers in the world. In addition, many newspapers have internet editions. Do you count unique viewers of those editions? -THB 16:54, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

That's as good as guessing. Can you try and limit it, to say - English language, daily or by country?martianlostinspace 18:06, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Volcanoes

Does anyone know of places in America and Mexico where volcanoes erupted and destroyed the land that was once maybe forests but now just barren (or changed the land), like it did in the Virgin Valley in Nevada?

Do you mean recently, like Mount St. Helens? -THB 19:40, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

From Yellowstone National Park: "Yellowstone has registered three major volcanic eruption events in the last 2.2 million years with the last event occurring 640,000 years ago. Its eruptions are the largest known to have occurred on Earth within that timeframe, producing drastic climate change in the aftermath". Gandalf61 20:03, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Kilauea. User:Zoe|(talk) 03:31, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Our supervolcano#Known_eruptions article section lists 5 major supervolcano eruptions in what is now the United States, but none in what is now Mexico. StuRat 12:13, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Think of England

Warning: People who watch Stargate Atlantis, haven't seen ep 3x11, and care about small spoilers, shouldn't read on.

A cultural question; in a recent Atlantis episode, replicators had taken over Atlantis, and were taking information from a character by means of inserting their hands in foreheads, and extracting it directly from peoples' minds. When one asked "How was I supposed to resist that?", another, an American General replied, "Well, I like to close my eyes and think of England". What I'm wondering is... what did he mean by this? When Americans are in pain do they like to think of medieval churches? Or is there some level of cultural allusion that I'm missing? I'm English, so it was a bit of a surprise (I might have expected something like 'Close my eyes and think of Minnesota', since it was his home, but England was a surprising thing to stick on the end). --Mnemeson 20:04, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

You are English? Male, I imagine! It was traditionally the advice that maters are alleged to have given to well brought up 'gels' just before their wedding night; Well, my dear, just lie back and think of England. I hope that helps. Clio the Muse 20:26, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Haha, it's even in Misplaced Pages: Lie back and think of England -sthomson 21:51, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Good grief! Is there anything that Misplaced Pages does not have? Clio the Muse 00:00, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

No. That's the whole point of WP. JackofOz 01:23, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps a List of product placements in Video Games... such as Mentos in FFXII:P Crisco 1492 06:47, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

If you had known my ex-wife, you would agree that thinking of any country - including Afghanistan with its women under the Taliban and the Burkha, would have been infinitely preferable. As to thinking of England - my home country, I would not have insulted it by associating it with my ex-wife.

Rectus abdominis - Getting a six-pack

What diet and exercise would be appropriate to define the abs? Thanks --Weird question? 20:38, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Try an ablounge and weightwatchers, they have great results. If you don't have the money, just do situps and other exercises for at least a half an hour a day. Remember to always eat your small snacks between meals (fruits) and make sure you have a lot of different colors of foods on your plate (and i don't mean candy). hope this helps, oh and remember to stretch!

Almost everyone already has a six pack! It is just covered over by body fat. Doing crunches will help if you have a low body fat percentage, but according to Men's Health you need to be at about 5%-10% to get definition. So, if you're already really skinny do crunches. Otherwise, cardio, cardio, cardio. You'll need to do at least 45-60 min a day, 5-7 days per week, for at least a month to start getting results. Then depending on your size it could take as long as six months to "get a six pack". It's not easy. Also, watching what you eat will help. And remember, building muscle and losing fat at the same time is difficult without paying attention to diet. Increase protein, decrease calories for carbohydrates and fats. The healthiest way to lose weights is 1 lb a week. Which means you need to burn 500 Calories a day. Good luck! --Cody.Pope 19:52, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to give a brutally honest answer; there are three ways to improve the tone of your six-pack:

1. swimming
2. walking
3. you-know-what

Of course cycling, skiing, jogging, skating, playing any sort of sport or doing anything outside will likely help. Mathiemood 16:48, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

wii searchingf

what is a good website that could help me to find the wii?

google.com. Friday (talk) 21:22, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Find is as in find a store that has it in stock?? Well, google will not help much there as the unit is probably selling out as soon as it comes in. I passed a Best Buy the night before it was released and people were camped out to buy it (I had never heard of it before asking them what they were camped for and it really threw me that they said thay were waiting for a WEEEEE). You can find it on eBay, of course. Otherwise call around to every electronics store in your area or wait til after Christmas. --Justanother 22:01, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

refreshthing.com

If Google doesn't do it, try froogle. User:Zoe|(talk) 03:32, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

If you want to chance throwing $6.50 down the toilet, there is this site. Who knows. If you do then please let us know how it works out. --Justanother 05:39, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Gold, Diamonds, and Gems

What are the forces that come together to create gold, diamonds, and gems? I believe gold is created from sand and water but what else?

Gold is an element found in the earth's crust. See Diamonds#Formation for info on diamond formation. The articles on individual other gems may include sections on how they are formed. Friday (talk) 21:32, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Gold is made from sand and water, diamonds are solidified fairy dust and other gems are fossils of angel tears. sorry couldn't help it;)I'd go with the above.Vespine 21:48, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

See alchemy and philosopher's stone also. --Justanother 22:03, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

There are Apache's tears ... User:Zoe|(talk) 03:34, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I wonder if the original poster thought "gold is created from sand and water" because they knew about panning for gold (see placer mining). What's actually going on there is that in some places sand can have tiny amounts of gold mixed in with it, and water is used to help separate it out. --Anonymous, 05:45 UTC, December 6.

In case you are wondering, gold, as well as other heavy elements, was primarily created in supernova explosions before the formation of our solar system. Thus, gold then became part of the cloud from which the Earth was formed, and, by various geologic processes, accumulated in certain areas after the Earth formed. StuRat 12:06, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually new research show some bacteria shits gold, which is one of the explainations for gold dust in rivers. Joneleth 18:47, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but excretion of gold can only take place if the microbes have already ingested it - the gold isn't made there, it simply 'passes through' them. See the middle of this science paper for a bit more info on that. Inner Earth 20:02, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

magneto

This is more of a technical than a science question so I'm asking it here. How does grounding the primary of a magneto shut down the secondary (the high voltage winding part that send the spark) when the other end of the primary is already grounded and when the the power comes from the magnets on the flywheel rotating past the magneto core? 71.100.6.152 21:43, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I can't be sure whether you are asking about a transformer, a generator, or an induction coil. Please elaborate. If you ground both ends of the primary, whatever the device, that will constitute a shorting out of the winding, which is not the case if only one end of the primary is grounded. With one winding of a transformer shorted out, it will tend to collapse the voltage on another tightly coupled winding. But I can't quite be sure what you are talking about with primary, secondary, and flywheel with magnets. Edison 01:10, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Edison, he is referring to a magneto, which is the ignition system on most small engines like lawn mower engines. --Justanother 01:18, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes Edison that is correct. I am refering to an ignition magneto coil. If your answer is still applicable then that would explain why a primary that is grounded at one end will allow the secondary to function as the source of ignition current but prevent the secondary coil from firing if both ends of the primary are grounded. Although magnetos are suppose to be very reliable I can see then how say in an airplane one might not want to use a magneto with a primary if that is possible. 71.100.6.152 05:33, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually, small piston-powered aircraft have not one but two independant (redundant) magneto igition systems. On pre-takeoff runup you check each individually and then fly with both. This site shows an electronic replacement for magnetos. Back in the day, any racecar or hot rod worth anything had Mallory magneto ignition, too. --Justanother 05:45, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I think it's fine to post such a question on the Science Ref Desk, as engineering is basically "applied science". StuRat 12:00, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the "shorted primary" will cause most of the electricity generated by the magneto to take the easy path (through the shorted primary) rather than the difficult path (through the spark plug), hence, no spark.

Atlant 13:05, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

A shorted winding on a transformer, or even a turn to turn short, will in general cause the other windings to look like they are shorted as well when AC voltage is applied to them, because of the tight coupling between windings due to the common ferrous core they are wound on. Edison 15:28, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I thought that grounding the primary windings causes the induced current in the secondary windings to collapse and the current in the secondary is what takes the difficult path, hence, yes spark. But I am notoriously weak on electricity and am not sure of the mechanics of it; I mean is there an actual current in the secondary prior to collapse or only some sort of potential and why can't it just quietly go back to where it came from (the ether? - joke) instead of making that big leap. PS: remember we are talking DC current here if that makes any difference. --Justanother 22:27, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

A permanently-shorted primary is, of course, a different situation than an intermittently-shorted primary.

Atlant 12:52, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

In the case of an ignition magneto the current through both windings is generated by the magnet(s) exciting the core rather than a current through the primary exciting the core and the core exciting the secondary. It makes sense that by ground the primary at both ends the magnatism of the core is draind by the primary being shorted before it can excite the secondary. Correct me if I'm wrong. Adaptron 04:57, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Names and what they mean

how does the sorority community come up with all the different names and what they mean for that Faternity or communitty?

I'm just going to point you to fraternity, sorority and greek alphabet. -- 23:16, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps someone here knows if there is some meaning given to the letters chosen as a general rule? For example, Phi Beta Kappa Society got its greek initials from

Phi Beta Kappa (ΦΒΚ) stands for Φιλοσοφία Βιοῦ Κυβερνήτης or philosophia biou kubernetes — "Love of wisdom, the guide of life."

--Justanother 01:27, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I've seen examples of social fraternities & sororities where there is a motto with those initials (like ΦΒΚ). A member of Kappa Alpha Theta told me those letters stand for something in Greek & wondered about the accuracy of the translation. But the motto is considered secret, so she couldn't divulge it. My impression is that most Greek letter organizations have some phrase (or series of nouns) in mind. Wareh 03:23, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Following up to an "identify this city" request

Came across this image while clearing out Category:Flickr images needing human review and thought it looked suspiciously like a photo of a mystery city that was posted here a little while ago. The OP wanted help in identifying where it might be. Unfortunately, I was unable to find the original question in the archives (most likely because it wasn't answered), so I'm posting here. The city in question appears to be Homyel, Belarus. If anyone remembers who originally asked it, perhaps you could contact them. Thanks. howcheng {chat} 22:34, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Someone found the answer by Googling "Mystery City", I think it was Moscow. Unfortunately every city in the world looks like every other one these days. -22:56, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Eastern European cities certainly don't look like American ones. Compare Moscow to Ashville, North Carolina. -- Mwalcoff 02:07, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

They should make cameras with GPS, so they could put the location of the shot in the metadata as well as the date and time. NeonMerlin 23:46, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Good idea! I am sure that one is not far off. --Justanother 23:54, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

They are here already. Search for "camera +gps" to find models and reviews. -- Seejyb 01:31, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

• Here's the archived question and discussiojn. As stated above, it turned out to be Moscow -- and identifying the picture was the subject of some sort of informal competition. Here's the web page that was linked to earlier, giving the answer and making clear that this is one of a series of competitions. --Anonymous, 06:06:06 UTC, 2006-12-06.

Reporting a deceptive eBay listing

An eBay listing is described in one of the grey-box attributes as shipping worldwide, but the description states that it only ships within the United States. As a Canadian, I hate it when web site offers turn out not to apply to me because some idiot assumed a website or magazine was only read within the States (and I think they should be required to put in a disclaimer). But it's even worse when a listing is shown on the Canadian edition of a website, and intolerable when it says it ships to my country and then doesn't. Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to fit into any of the categories eBay provides for complaints. How should I report it? I've already written to the seller, but I'm not sure I can count on him to answer (especially since the listing closes in two days). NeonMerlin 23:21, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Why not ask him for his reasoning? I have sold lots of stuff on eBay and sold all over the world. On a number of occasions a Canadian buyer has maintained a US address, say in Detroit, if they live near there, to avoid duties and additional postage. Perhaps he is shooting for those buyers. IMO, he is clear in the auction text about US addresses only and seems to have phrased it as politely as possible. I am sure that you have experienced cases where that was not the case, perhaps? Re reporting, you are right, there are no appropriate reporting categories. You can report it under miscategorized items if you think it needs to be reported; perhaps eBay will send him a warning. --Justanother 23:53, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the text states it only ships to the US, once you get down to the end. But what one sees first is the first screen, where the grey box clearly states, "Ships to: Worldwide." If it doesn't ship worldwide, it shouldn't claim to in the grey box, and it shouldn't be specifically set up to appear on non-US editions of eBay. This is at best negligent and inconsiderate, and at worst a bait and switch. If I worked at eBay, I wouldn't let that seller off with a warning, I'd immediately change all their listings to "Ships to: United States" and tell them they'd have to sort out which ones shipped worldwide and which ones didn't. I'd also warn all bidders and tell them they could retract their bids if necessary. And if it happened again, I'd suspend their account. NeonMerlin 00:10, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

eBay justice is very slow and rather ineffective. This is really a pretty mild infraction (which is why there is even no way to report it) and, at best, he would get a warning but existing auctions would not be affected. Bidders are NEVER informed of eBay justice unless eBay pulls the auction in which case you get a notification that the auction was pulled but not why. I pasted one below.

SB NOTICE: eBay Auction XXXX Cancelled - Results Null and Void

Hello XXXX

The following is a courtesy notice from eBay Trust & Safety regarding:

Item Number - XXXX Item Title - XXXX

Our records show that you bid on this listing. We have removed the listing from eBay because it violated eBay policy. You are not required to complete the transaction. The seller is free to relist the item in accordance with eBay's online policies. If the seller relists the item, you are free to bid on that item.

For more information on eBay policies please visit:

http://www.ebay.com/help/policies/hub.html

If you have additional questions, please use the "Contact Us" link found on eBay Help pages.

Regards,

Customer Support (Trust and Safety Department) eBay Inc

Really, shoot him an email and see what his logic is, if you care to find out. --Justanother 01:01, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

December 6

chad vader

how many chad vader episodes will there be and when is episode 5 finally coming out?

See Chad Vader. According to the article, there's no date for a fifth episode. Dave6 01:49, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Bakufu Slash Kizna Arashi

what does that mean in japanese?and how come it is not released in the USA?

See shogun for bakufu. Arashi means storm. --Kjoonlee 03:09, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Bakufu part is actually bakufū (kanji: 爆風), a wind caused by an explosion. Kizna, written in katakana キズナ in Japanese, might be related to kizuna (kanji: 絆), meaning "bond". Arashi (嵐) means storm. --Kusunose 05:43, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Odd question about potatoes

I'm working on a project (in the interests of science) and I need to find a large source of cheap potatoes. My time is somewhat limited (less than a week), but they don't need to be edible. What happens to potatoes that don't pass "inspection" or whatever process they go through at the farm? Would these be destroyed or put to some other use?
--Xerol 02:04, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

See Food bank for what might happen to otherwise "unwanted" food. But for you, you need to do this google and start making calls. --Justanother 02:48, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Be aware that potatoes are frequently sprayed with a sprouting inhibitor which may adversely affect your "project" if it involves fermentation. In that case a good washing or peeling would be helpful.  :-) --hydnjo talk 03:55, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, I doubt that'll affect the aerodynamic properties of them. Even if they were edible to begin with, they're not going to be in any condition to be once we're done with them. Anyway, thanks for the link, I'll make some calls tomorrow. --Xerol 04:45, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Potatoes are quite inexpensive as is, especially when purchased in large bags (in many cases, they are literally cheaper than dirt). How many do you need ? If you need a ton or more, then I see why the price would become an issue. For much less than that, I suspect you will spend more money to travel to a place where you can buy inedible potatoes in bulk, than you will save. StuRat 11:52, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

So how big is this spud gun?--Shantavira 12:18, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Ethnic?

we were studying something on Ethnic and how it effect everyday lives. This WAS a homework assignment, but I was interested in this and wanted some more opinion on the matter. There were twin sister one name Meg and the other name Irene. Irene is a well like person in school and Meg is not, Also, Meg is a little depressed because she think that her parent love Irene more than she. Then Irene needed a kidney transplant so that she could live, but Meg would give one of her kidney to Irene. You are the Doctor in charge of the surgery What should you do, should you back out or should you operate. Dragonfire 734 04:53, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Dragonfire 734: Your question cannot be answered because it DIRECTLY asked for opinions which the References Desks are discouraged from offering. The question seem to be on the subject of Ethics. Please feel free to reword your question in a manner that does not ask for personal opinions of the editors. Thank you. --Justanother 05:13, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure why we're having a rash of people objecting to questions which require an opinion - even if this is an example of one of them, which I would dispute. I imagine there are protocols for donor surgery which the surgeon would follow; so, for instance, she would check that there is informed consent on the part of Meg. It is possible that others on the RD might be able to flesh out the sorts of considerations which attend, without having to reach for an opinion. Meanwhile I'm not sure what this question has to do with ethnicity, but there you go. --Tagishsimon (talk)

There is a difference between your opinion guiding your answer to an even somewhat properly-formatted question (how could it not) and asking an open-ended question that asks only for opinions. I was going to reword the question a bit but, in the end, that is not a great precedent and it is better all around that the OP post a proper question. --Justanother 05:24, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

In this instance, the poorly worded question, which perhaps begged answers of "operate" or "don't operate", at least led to the concept of protocols and the importance of informed consent. I'd argue this demonstrates that it is possible to answer alleged "opinion please" questions with pointers to factual content. All of which is better than deleting the question, and probably more useful than chiding a questioner about the form of their question or stating that it cannot be answered here. --Tagishsimon (talk)

It more led to the concept of ethics, morals, philosophy, and religion. I don't think the question should of been deleted and I was putting it back the same time Friday did. I do think that questioners and "answerers" can and should be notified when their questions or answers are not in the spirit of the Reference Desks, whether they be obviously asking homework questions, asking for how-to advice on illegal activities, or turning this desk into a discussion forum. --Justanother 06:05, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I will be glad to give an opinion but I'm not sure where the ethical conundrum is. Both the donor and recipient of a transplant must give informed consent. Minors might not be able to do so on their own behalf. I don't think that this was really the issue though, unless the implication was that Meg was so depressed that she couldn't give informed consent. Please clarify why the surgeon is hesitant. -THB 06:40, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

In addition to informed consent, AFAIK live organ donors go through counselling which is meant to weed out coerced donations and donors in it for the wrong reasons. The proposed situation likely wouldn't get as far as the surgeon having to decide whether or not to proceed; the transplant team would probably be constrained by their own protocols to deny the operation. In the situations I am familiar with at least. Anchoress 06:51, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

This is a medical ethics question. While medical ethics vary slightly from country to country, they are relatively consistent. How well liked a person is, for example, is never used in the decision making process, either for them to be a donor or recipient. Also, by the following:

but Meg would give one of her kidney to Irene

did you mean to say:

but Meg would not willingly give one of her kidneys to Irene ? StuRat 11:48, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Exactly. The way it is worded there is really no ethical question there at all for the doctor. But if Meg does not want to donate but Meg is below the age of informed consent then can the parents over-rule her?? And if they can and do, then there is a valid question here. What should the doctor do? Valid but basically inviting opinions and points at topics of ethics, morals, philosophy, and religion along with legal responsibility with the final answer likely being one of legal responsibility which is another area we don't really deal with. But rewording the OP's question to that extent seems to go a bit far so I refrained from doing it. Better that we ask the OP to rephrase and clarify. --Justanother 12:46, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I left a message on the questioner's talk page asking for clarification. -THB 15:51, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Mysterious Movie Mechanics

Sorry, I couldn't resist the alliteration. Anyways, straight to the point. I was watching "The Grudge 2" yesterday with my friend, and about twice during the movie, a double O appeared on screen in yellow text. I've noticed that this happens with every Western movie I watch in the theatre here, although never the same letter. D, M, O, W... so on and so forth. At first I thought that this was a way of keeping the projector on track, but I've decided its doubtful. Are these letters part of the subtitling done to the movies? If not, what are they for? Crisco 1492 05:59, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

To help out, could you explain where "here" is? Also, by "Western" do you mean like cowboys and indians or like Western hemisphere? Also, where on screen are these letters, what size are they, etc. Dismas| 06:17, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Sorry Dismas. I am currently in Indonesia on an exchange program, and Western would mean American, French, English, and Australian. The letters are in the middle vertically, and placed parallel. I'd say about 1/4 of the way out from the left and right edges, similar to the spacing of the red bars on the Canadian flag. They are always the same colour as the subtitles. Oh, and does this happen in many countries where films are subtitled? I never watched a subtitled film in theatres in Canada, (although I meant to see Hero). Sorry again. Crisco 1492 06:59, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Could they be Cue marks (aka "cigarette burns"), telling the operator when to switch to the other projector/reel?

They don't sound like cue marks - wrong position, and mostly wrong shape. Sounds like an artefact of the subtitling process, but I have not a clue why or what. --Tagishsimon (talk)

Is it still there when you turn the subtitles off? - Zepheus <ツィフィアス> 18:31, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

It is in the Movie Theatre, not in a DVD or VCD. I think Tagishsimon is right, and they are a remnant of the subtitling process. However, it mustn't be too hard to erase it, can it? Crisco 1492 23:05, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

No need to apologise at the start. Alliteration's always acceptable. It shows you're thinking about what you're writing, and is a compliment to the reader.  :) JackofOz 01:59, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Just Joking, JackofOz... I just wanted to start off with a light comment, to make it interesting for the reader. Who want's to read a question like its out of a textbook or a lecture? "And who can tell me what the purpose of floating letters in the middle of the screen signify?" (Without further explaination, I'd probably say you need stronger glasses, but... I'm no doctor... anyways, thanks guys and girls for all your help. Terima Kasih Banyak, teman-temanku. Crisco 1492 06:07, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

The letters could be part of an anti-pirating technique. Perhaps different letters are added to different prints of the movie. Then if someone makes a video recording of the movie, it may be possible to figure out where it was done. --Anonymous, 09:05 UTC, December 7.

Find a suitale college or university!roi

I am a kindergaten teacher in viet nam.In order to furthur my knowledg,i want to go to study at Australia.However,i could'n find out the college or university that suitable for my current job.Could you please give me any suggestion about my problem? I'm looking forwarwd to hearing from you and thanks in advance.

This is an area currently undergoing change in Australia as far as qualifications, etc are concerned. However also be aware that in Australia things will vary from state to state, so you may need to consider what state/s you are wanting to live in.

Can I suggest you investigate the Myfuture website here where you should find the information you need. Perhaps the easiest approach is to just do a basic search for Kindergarten Teacher. Good luck. --jjron 09:41, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Adelaide has three Universities: Flinders University, the University of South Australia and Adelaide University. Sydney also has a lot. I'd suggest you go to their websites and look at their programs of study to figure out what they have. Australia's educational system is mirrored off of the UK's and has a lot of internationally recognized certification programs. --Cody.Pope 19:40, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

A good starting point might be List of universities in Australia. JackofOz 01:56, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Marketing/Advertising

Someone's asked me to find a source (or refutation) of a maxim in their workplace, along the lines of "people take no notice of marketing messages until they've noticed them seven times, in three different forms". This would seem to go against putting all your eggs in one media channel alone, which I'm sure must be successful from time to time... I'm also surprised against the "seven" bit; if it's impactful (Hello Boys comes to mind... probably too often) I reckon once is enough. --Dweller 09:11, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Check this page: Saying. The problem's with the definition, it's not really a Maxim in the true sense of the word. I would agree with you, once is enough if it's impactful. Remember the 1984 (television commercial)? vs. the commercial I saw the other night that ran every thirty minutes all night long and I can't even remember what it was advertising. Advertising is an art, not a science. -THB 16:43, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Having been in marketing/advertising for over 40 years I can say with authority that any sensible or crackpot phrase or claim can be made without any foundation except hunch. David Ogilvy - possibly the greatest copywriter and advertising agency owner - said in Ogilvy on Advertising that "Everyone has a vested interest in prolonging the myth that ALL advertising increases sales to some degree. It doesn't." He also illustrates several cases where advertising has had a negative effect on sales. He also explains how Ford ran an ad in alternate copies of Readers Digest for a year. Sales figures for those NON exposed were higher than those from people actually exposed to the ads. Finally - one can never be wrong in advance of a campaign, and one can always explain failure in hindsight. Hooray for marketing research. petitmichel90.4.117.27 17:00, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

No, I don't remember it. I don't live in the USA! But I do take your point.--Dweller 16:57, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I found a rather dubious source repeating the seven times idea (and calling it a maxim!) () but not the three forms... and it also agrees with THB and myself about stand-out. Anyone got a proper marketing source for the seven times concept/maxim/saying/nonsense? --Dweller 16:57, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I can think of one company who was successful because of just one commercial: HeadOn did that annoying commercial where they say "HeadOn! Apply directly to the forehead!" three times in a row. I only needed to hear it once and when I went to a drug store i specifically noticed that particular product on the shelves. Not a believer in homeopathic medicine, I didn't buy it of course, but they had terrific sales afterwards. Sifaka 21:15, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

An advertiser's dream. First, it gives you a headache, then it offers a "cure" for it. Sucker! Apply directly to the wallet! Clarityfiend 06:17, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Sida

Hi, once again i need to have a question answered from my Memory so if anyone can help it would be appreciated My question is this: Around the 1960's there was this legend about a Man named Sida and he was weird and bizarre and everyone left him alone for some reason..And i belive there was a film made or something Can someone help me out with this and tell me where i might find some more Information on it? Catman503 10:29, 6 December 2006 (UTC)Catman503

More information would help. Where are you from? B00P 10:53, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

More Information Uh..Okay well from what i remember I think he was from the Middle Eastern..and that he might have died of a Broken heart or something along those Lines and that was the only reason he was considered evil or weird...i can't remember anymore than that unfortunatly

A search of IMDB.com is giving nothing useful. -THB 15:51, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Unless you mean Sita. (Trials and tribulations, forest hermitage, but the character is female and subcontinental).

Maybe you're thinking of Siddhartha. JackofOz 01:53, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

material specifications

There is an S.A.E material spec 1112, I would to know if anyone can give the the equal of that material. It seems to be an outdtaed spec from somewhere around the 1960's. Thanks

Don't know about outdated; I find plenty of reference to SAE 1112 steel, here for example. Also known as AISI B1112. See AISI steel grades - 0.12% carbon steel (low carbon steel), resulfurized. --Justanother 15:42, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Mourning Dove Call Whistle Sound??

Can anyone do a really good mourning dove whistle?? I need a sound file of an actual person doing the whistle for a project I'm working on.

Thanks!! LDR

If you want an actual call, there appears to be some here. I'd give the artificial call a shot but my roommate is sleeping (yes still at 4:30 -_-) --froth 21:31, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

US Citizenship

What is exactly the purpose behind making the citizenship test difficult? 20:31, 6 December 2006 (UTC)~~

To ensure that people who want to become citizens actually know something about this country. StuRat 20:35, 6 December 2006 (UTC) (reply restored by froth, wth User:85.50.130.179 ? I'm glad I caught that)

I'd imagine that as sturat said it's to make sure that immigrants have been thoroughly naturalized. Ideally it shouldn't be difficult to a naturalized immigrant. --froth 21:29, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

According to the section on citizenship test in the article United States nationality law, the candidate must answer six of ten questions that are chosen from a total of 96 questions. The 96 questions and most of the answers are available ahead of time. Some people would not consider such a test difficult, although it does involve memorization. Anecdotally, some candidates are only asked two or three of the easiest questions. -THB 22:16, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually, there has been a recent announcement that the test would be made harder, and would require a test-taker to answer questions based on their interpretations of American culture and civics, and not so much on memorizing answers. User:Zoe|(talk) 03:14, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Because generally you want people who are willing to apply themselves to the task. Think of it as a test of your determination, as a way of telling if you 'bring something' to the US other than your simple flesh and bones. People generally want new citizens to 1. be industrious/productive members of society 2. be willing to assimilate and show some knowledge of the culture 3. possess basic skills to get by i.e. literacy/numeracy and a grasp of the English language. Robovski 00:54, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

It's just a way to make sure that the immigrant really wants to become a member of the United States. When you think about it though, people who are willing to go through all the trouble to get the citizenship are the people one wants in the country. They revitalize it to some extent. --AstoVidatu 04:50, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Torchwood Song

Again, agonising over where this question goes but decided this was best! Can anyone tell me what the song was that played in the Torchwood episode "They keep killing Suzie"? It was right towards the end when Jack came back into the Hub and him and Gwen shared a long (possibly meanigful?) look. It's just one woman singing from what I remember and I really liked it and now I want to find it!

Thanks in advance Farosdaughter 22:21, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

The song is called "Gorecki" by Lamb; it was inspired by Henryk Górecki's Third Symphony, the Symphony of Sorrowful Songs and is used in the soundtrack to Baz Luhrman's film Moulin Rouge!. Gandalf61 22:43, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I love you! :D Farosdaughter 22:49, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Wow, talk about pay! --Justanother 23:12, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

music video on You Tube ...and others. 71.100.6.152 23:25, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

powered magneto

A magneto has a primary and secondary coil which are energized by magnets on the flywheel moving beneath an open core which the primary and secondary coils surround with one end of each grounded and the other end of the secondary coil used to produce a spark in a spark plug and the other end of the primary coil used to stop the flow of current in the secondary coil by shorting it to ground. Can a voltage be switch on through the primary coil at or near the moment the magnets pass the core to assure the generation of a spark at low RPM, i.e., when starting to assure the production of a current in the secondary and hence a spark at the spark plug and if so what must this voltage be? 71.100.6.152 23:06, 6 December 2006 (UTC).

I guess you mean can the magneto also function as a normal ignition coil which has the primary circuit powered by the car's battery rather than by moving magnets. Sure, I imagine but why? Engines with magnetos start up just fine. --Justanother 23:11, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Not always! Try cranking a Briggs & Stratton 8 Hp generator by hand at three in the morning if the power goes off! Under these circumstances the very least that is needed is an assist with the ignition. 71.100.6.152 00:00, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Just a brief note, I assume you mean Magneto (electrical) as the link? Sorry to seem to be picky, just wanted to get the link in for the archives. Skittle 23:14, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Correct. 71.100.6.152 00:00, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

So you think you need a fatter spark then. How about a tune-up and some starting ether? I know that is not an answer to your question. I see how the spark boost might help if you have some oil-fouling due to wear. Perhaps there are higher output ignition systems in the aftermarket? --Justanother 00:22, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

There may be but even replacement parts are overly expensive. Currently using starter ether which helps. There may also be a problem with a cranky oil level guard which can be disconnected but that is another issue. Adaptron 00:45, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

What you're describing is called a magneto booster, at least when it's installed on an aircraft.EricR 04:04, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

How do people know what Jesus looked like?

I see al the paintings and movies but how do they know he looked like taht?

They don't. See Images_of_Jesus. Friday (talk) 23:39, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

The short answer is that we do not know what Jesus looked like. All later portraits and depictions, from Byzantine icons onwards, are idealised images. Clio the Muse 23:43, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I suspect the images of Christ have been influenced by interpretations of the Shroud of Turin. And a pancake somewhere in Britain. Although the pancake looks more like Captain Morgan, if you ask me. Anchoress 23:47, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

The shroud's proven existence dates only from 1357. There were many images of Jesus prior to then. It may one day be shown that the shroud dates from around Jesus's time, but until then it couldn't be used to argue that the images of Christ are modelled on the shroud. JackofOz 01:49, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Since Jesus descended in the main line Jews there is a good chance that his features would represent an atypical composite of jews today. The Bible says there was nothing spectacular about his physique. Adaptron 00:14, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Nobody does know, because the bible says almost nothing about his appearance. It is not important to concentrate on his appearance, just on his lessons. But, there are some things that give clues. He was a carpenter, and since there were no tools back then, we can assume that he was a very strong man to be able to handle wood. Not much else can be found.

No tools?????? So he sawed wood with his bare hands????? And the soldiers hammered the nails in likewise????????? Come on - get real - it was only 2000 years ago - much earlier man was using flint axes long before Christ was a carpenter.

well, what i meant was no power tools. sorry.

LOL Well thank you Jesus for giving me such a moment of light relief here. Im sure you did not need power tools!--Light current 03:03, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

"What if God used Black and Decker..?" --Wooty Woot? contribs 03:06, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

By some strange coincidence, Jesus often looks very much like whatever people are describing him. In reality, he probably looked a lot like a Sephardic Jew or a (shudder!) Palestinian.

Atlant 12:54, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Adaptron, Jews from different countries can look very different. Furthermore, there's been 2,000 years of occasional intermarriage since Jesus' time, mixing up the gene pool nicely. I can't think how you'd find an ancient, sympathetic depiction of a Jew, as at the time, Jews considered this as making a graven image (see for example, the "heads"less coin struck by Simon bar Kokhba (right). All in all, I'd say it's pretty much impossible to say. As our article Images of Jesus states, Jesus' depictions tend to reflect the society making the image - compare Ethiopian, Byzantine and modern American/European images. --Dweller 14:09, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Agreed! Sammy Davis Junior would probably not fit the atypical image of a Middle Eastern Jew... perhaps not even an Ethiopian Jew! But that was not my point. In terms of the hereditary line of Jews. (They did keep accurate records of heredity back then and I assume they have since, do now and will always.) What I am saying is that if you find a line of Jews who have records going back 2000 years then you probably will find (even with mingling of cultures some resemblance or idea of what Jesus may have looked like. Otherwise I do not think the term “Crooked nose Jews” (or is it hooked?) would stil be used today to derscribe certain Jews. Anyway Middle Eastern Jews even with the mingling of cultures tend to retain certain physical characteristics that everyone identifies with Jews. However what is important to note here is that no matter what Jesus physically looked like then or will physically look like when He returns that is not how you will know that it is Him. Adaptron 14:59, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

• Misplaced Pages Reference Desk archive