Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by StuRat (talk | contribs) at 01:15, 13 December 2006 (Please vote on attempt to delete new Ref Desk rules). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

For older threads see User talk:DirkvdM/archive 1 or the first seven threads below, which I wanted to keep here. Most of those are reminders for me, except for:

1. Photograph Identification - for those who have identified contents of photos of mine
2. Philosophy - a glimpse of how my mind works (for those who can stomach it)

Photograph Identification

If you recognise any of the plants or animals in the photographs in my Photograph portfolio, please tell me here. Thanx :) DirkvdM 13:37, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

• Hi, Dirk. The rhinoceros beetle on Image:Rhinoceros beetle.jpg is probably Aegopsis curvicornis trinidaensis, in the tribe of Agaocephalini. --ja:利用者:Ons 08:26, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Hi. Yes, according this research, it's A. curvicornis trinidaensis. Beetle on Image:What beetle is this.jpg is dung beetle. --Goliathus 11:26, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Your hummingbrd photo looks like a Buff-tailed Coronet. Google it with images. Crickie 22:36, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

• The land hermit crab photo (http://en.wikipedia.org/Image:Hermit_crab_corcovado.jpg) looks like its Coenobita compressus to me, take a look at this link: http://www.tonycoenobita.com/species_compressus_eng2.htm . Scroll down to "Body Colour / Spot" and look at the second row, right picture. Looks very similar. I have several C. compressus as pets but your photo looks somewhat different, I still think its a C. compressus though. --Quigabyte 02:09, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. The photo is now at Wikimedia commons. I've added the info. DirkvdM 06:06, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

• The photo you posted in the Banana talk section Image:DirkvdM_bananaflower.jpg is Strelitzia reginae, otherwise known as "Bird of Paradise." They grow all around my office here in San Diego, California, USA. That is a nice photo. Cheers! Intelligence3 23:27, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Don't forget

Talk:A_Turning_Point_in_National_History#Request_for_Comments zo dan

DYK

Did you know? has been updated. A fact from the article Sociocracy, which you recently created, has been featured in that section on the Main Page. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently-created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

Photos

Hi Dirk, you've uploaded some great photos. I was wondering why you have uploaded them as {{fairuse}} given that they are your own images? You may want to consider adding a licence to the image like {{PD-user}} if you want to release them into the public domain, {{CopyrightedFreeUse-User}} if you'd like to maintain copyright, the {{GFDL}} is the licence most used by Misplaced Pages's contributors, and there is a host of Creative Commons Licenses. --nixie 07:24, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip. I still needed to look into this, but you've made my job somewhat easier. I've decided for the moment to use the creative commons license. I've found out how to use it with just the 'by' tag, thus: {{cc-by}}. That will do for the moment, but I don't know how to aloso add the 'nc' and 'nd' tags. Could you tell me? DirkvdM 08:53, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

I'm trying to identify your hummingbird image - it would narrow it down a bit if you could say where it was photographed - not in the Netherlands!

Don't bother, it's a Costa's Hummingbird, so probably in [[california

Nope! That's a photograph that was already there. The one I placed is the green flying one next to the text about flying (seemed appropriate). You're half-right in an odd way, though, with the Costa bit, because it was photographed in Costa Rica :) .

By the way, if you know about other animals than butterflies (or plants) you might also take a look at these: User:DirkvdM/Photographs#Plants_and_Animals. Or just enjoy them! I'm quite a bit proud I must say (and this isn't even my best selection). DirkvdM 20:01, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

Hi there. I've identified Image:Butterfly panama.jpg as Heliconius sara, and also wrote an article for it: see Sara Longwing. I would have edited the image description, but you left a note indicating that you'd prefer to do it yourself. Thanks for contributing so many excellent images! -- Hadal 20:17, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Me again; I've also identified Image:What butterfly is this-2.jpg as Chlosyne janais, and wrote up an article for it too: Crimson Patch. Cheers, -- Hadal 05:20, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, Hadal. I've also uploaded a side-view of the Crimson Patch and put it in the article. Not as nice-looking, but scientifically equally interresting, I suppose. DirkvdM 07:32, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Hi DirkvdM - your pic image:treemoss_panama.jpg is almost certainly a Tillandsia, not Usnea, hope you won't mind that I've moved it out of the Usnea page - MPF 01:04, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

I wanted to put the photo in the Tillandsia article, but I see you've already put it in the Spanish Moss article (which is also a Tillansia although it doesn't look like the other varieties). You might have pointed that out to me (and you might have put it in a bit bigger - sob, sob :( ). At first I thought you were referring to the smaller Tillandsiae (is that a correct plural?), but then I realised that Spanish moss looks like Usnea. DirkvdM 07:11, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

I only added it to the Spanish Moss page after adding my note above - I needed to check that the species occurs in Costa Rica (which it does) before being sure of the ident. The 'beards' are too long, and in too exposed a position for Usnea, but match Tillandsia usneiodes perfectly. Sorry about the size, but it's difficult to fit lots of large pics around the small amount of text! - MPF 10:09, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Hi DirkvdM I'm running a fanpage of Mercedes-Benz Museum in Stuttgart: http://www.automuseum-stuttgart.de You have uploaded a photo of the old Mercedes van of Kaiser Wilhelm of Germany which is now owned by a Dutch Family. Would you allow to post this photo on the Museum Fansite? It would be be very nice. Thank you in advance. Bernd mailto: bernd.schray(at)beejees.net

First of all, it was owned by my grandfather. I don't really know what happened to it. If you know, tell me. Else, I will ask my mother if she knows. Of course you can use the photo. The Misplaced Pages rules say you have to give Misplaced Pages credit, though. It would make sense to link to . DirkvdM 14:36, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Moved from User page

Hi Dirk. I know this is not the place, but I am very curious. So forgive me the next question:The combination of this discussion about "the Big Bang theory" with your names makes me thinking. Are you the Dirk from Hemelrijken, Eindhoven?

Once upon a time, yes! Now you get me thinking (I love a good puzzle). Who did I know then who only knows me from that period (apparently) and recognises my style in this theory. Also someone who would be nosing around in Misplaced Pages enough to encounter this. Leo? DirkvdM 08:27, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

I probabely would have the same guess, but it's not Leo. If you know the answer, you can mail me:"my complete name without any dots"@planet.nl

Rats! I probably shouldn't have said that I love a good puzzle. So you know Leo too. And well enough to 'would have guessed that too' (if you wouldn't have been you, that is - but then would you then have known Leo - or me for that matter....). And I'm still assuming you didn't know I live in Amsterdam now. It's Rinie with an 'e' at the end, right? DirkvdM 07:21, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

(and I was right....)

Philosophy

Hi! I liked your response to my question about philosophycal skepticism at the humanities reference desk...thank you. I think it's awesome that you have studied philosophy!, do you know how can I use or join philosophy wikiversity? I don't understand it...maybe you can point me in the right direction, thnx. :).--Cosmic girl 00:19, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

You're welcome. About philosophy wikiversity; I never even heard of it. Thank you for pointing it out to me. Apparently there is a Wikiversity, of which the humanities division has a philosophy school. And a ancient Greek philiosophy course is being set up. Other than that, I don't know, but since it is very new and the courses are set up by the students themselves, I suppose at this stage you'd be more involved with research elsewhere to contribute by writing about what you fond. But, as with Misplaced Pages, that is part of the fun. What's more, it forces you to organise your thoughts, which, especially in the field of philosophy, is one of the better teachers. It's not just the knowledge that counts, it is much more the organisation of that knowledge, sort of like the difference between data and information. A table contains data. Seeing a structure in that data is information.

And if I may point you to a specific field of philosophy; try Logic. I think that should be a compulsory subject at schools. So often I hear people make elementary mistakes with logic. And if anything you say lacks logic there is no point in saying it. In other words, Logic will help you in other studies and in life in general. For example, if A has quality b then that does not mean that everything that has quality b is A. Makes sense right? However (I'm bringing up a favourite subject), even though people may not say it out loud like this, a lot of people will have this idea in their head that since State Socialism in the USSR led to atrocities, that means that atrocities are a part of State Socialism. You might not see the link at first, but what if you take A=atrocities and B=State Socialism. That makes the reasoning sound upside down. But something is not just defined by its qualities, one could also say that a quality is defined by the things that have it. (There is a name for this, but I'm a bit rusty and can't remember it now.) Excuse me for throwing you in the deep. :)

May I add that I'm not a communist and not (particularly) in favour of State Socialism. I just hate bullshit reasonings, so if I detect un unfair attack on anything I will point that out. Here's another one: a protest against the formation of the EU in the form of a poster with the head of Hitler and the text "United Europe? My idea!" Alas, people's unfamiliarity with basic rules of logic often leads them to actually be affected by such reasonings.

End of class. :) DirkvdM 08:12, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

I think you are right...and I use those illogic arguments sometimes...=P, maybe if I study logic I won't anymore. And you are githt about knowledge organization being more important than knowledge accumulation also. Do you know of any easy introduction to logic online?, because I don't think I'll be able to understand anything that isn't meant for beginners. :D and, thnx for the class teacher.--Cosmic girl 18:29, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Oh, another thing...hehe, I hope this question isn't too stupid, but since you like logic so much,I figured you may be able to answer it...ok, do you think that it's possible that our logic is not the 'real' logic and can be a 'fallacy' or some logic that is 'consistent within itself' but not 'beyond itself' since that logic was created by some 'smarter, truer' logic, but a logic that is totally unlike ours, so different that we can't grasp it, and if we did, it would seem really illogical to us...do you think there is a possibility to this? or is there a logical way to disprove this possibility?.--Cosmic girl 18:58, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, you certainly start with the right questions. I spot a great philosopher in the making. :) Don't take what I say now as official doctrine, but all any Logic can do is try to be internally consistent. What lies outside it, what Kant called 'Die Welt an sich' or 'the world in itself' can not be known. We are born with apriori knowledge, a set of rules, which, through experience, interacts with that world and thus creates our world view. Because we are bound to those rules, we can only know the world as we know it (now there's a nice tautology). We can speculate about the existence of a Welt an sich, but we cannot know it, so there's little point in thinking about it any further. Or so one could say. That would then be one of those things you have to think through as a philosopher and then let go once you realise you cannot know it. Then again, mathematics and formal logic are attempts to describe these rules and knowing the rules might be a way to escape them. I've let go of this a long time ago, but now I'm starting to think about that possibility again. Thanks for giving me another sleepless night. :)

About learning Logic. The book I learned Logic from is in Dutch, so that won't be of any help to you. The standard serious (!) introduction to philosophy in general is History of Western Philosophy (Russell), but that doesn't really deal with Logic. Other than that, from the top of my head, I can't think of anything. Except Logic maybe. Haven't read it, but there are loads of articles on the different types of logic. The most basic form is Propositional calculus and the table in that article looks like a handy reference if anything. But it doesn't look like it's for beginners. And there's no Spanish version (if I remember correctly you are a native Spanish speaker). Checking articles in other languages can give interresting insights, such as language-specific POV, but more in general they provide different angles. Anyway, that was a long way of saying I can't help you there. :( DirkvdM 16:06, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Ohhh...too bad, nevermind! I'll find a useful intro. Hey I have another silly question for you, I hope I'm not too anoying... ok here it goes. suppose Die Welt an sich is conscious...right? like God for example...then, Die Welt an sich has some sort of logic...maybe like ours, or unlike ours...but then...Die Welt an sich can also fall prey of skepticism and paranoia and believe that 'beyond it' somehow lies another kind of logic of which it has no knowledge and may be 'simulating' him/her/it ... and even if Die Welt an sich is infinite...there can still be some different logic beyond it to 'simulate it'....and so ad infinitum... have you ever thought about this?...this means that even God can fall prey of pyrroism.(I don't think I spelled it right). ok...there's another sleepless night for you! =P . ps. I'm trying to comprehend set theory and cantor's work too so that I can 'get to the bottom of this' LOL... =P.--Cosmic girl 00:30, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Relax, you're not in the least bit annoying. I now see that your first question could be interpreted as referring to a god. I don't generally think in such terms, so I didn't pick up on that. I don't know much about set theory, but it seems you've got a nice set there (oops, that's not meant in a sexist way :) ). But it's no shocking new theory. That is something you'll have to get used to as a philosopher. Whenever you think you've found some brilliant new insight it turns out someone else has already thought of it. Seeing gods in everyday object is animism, and that has to be very old. Seeing reality as a whole as one entity is holism, I believe, which sounds very new age but is probably very old too. Seeing it as a sentient entity is a 'logical' next step and seeing that as a god is then almost unavoidable. And a god automatically leads to your paradox, although most religious people oddly don't seem to wonder who created the creator (probably because they didn't come to their belief through deep thought but simply by copying their surroundings, which is usually pretty compulsory anyway). This whole idea of yours has even been made into a film, except that it's people simulated in a computer program. I forgot the title, but that's just as well because if you ever get to see it you don't want to know the explanation beforehand - that would be a major spoiler.

You mean pyrrhonism. At first I looked for Pyrrhus, but that's not the guy, it's Pyrrho. I had forgotten what the guy stood for, but then I looked it up in Russell's History and there I see his philosophy explained with "there could never be any rational ground for preferring one course of action to another. In practise that meant that one conformed to the customs of whatever country one inhabited. A modern disciple would go to church on Sundays and perform the correct genuflexions, but without any religious beliefs that are supposed to inspire those actions." That's almost exactly what I said between brackets here-above. But he goes on to say that that was a reason for sceptics to continue their habits. There was no way to prove them wrong, so they might as well continue their religion. Now that's weird. Philosophy can do funny things to your mind, so be warned. DirkvdM 07:19, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

I think Pyrrho ruled!, but only when he said that we have to 'suspend our judgement'...not when he said 'we have to follow the customs of the place we live in'.lol. ok, first I want to clear some things... When I say God... I mean 'truth' actually...God is just a catchy word...I don't mean God like most theists...When I say 'God' I mean a truth that can be accesed by us and be known by us, and to me, if truth is unknowable to us, then there is no 'God'...that's kinda how my reasoning goes...I don't believe in animism...it might be true , who knows, but I don't like it nor believe in it...holism...I don't know, maybe I sort of believe in holism just because reality is a whole, but not the way new agers believe it and say that prayer can heal and stuff like that...not that kind of holism... Hey, what's the name of the movie you said? I wanna watch it. :D --Cosmic girl 02:46, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

I still can't remember the name of the film (I'm very bad at names). But, like I said, with this discussion in mind you'd get the plot way to quickly, so that would be a major spoiler, so that's just as well. About God (as an all-knowing, omnipotent entity this time), if he's so superior we can't know him. Like you said "so different that we can't grasp it, and if we did, it would seem really illogical to us". But I've pretty much given up philosophising about gods, because it has proven highly improductive. People always start thinking about gods with preconceptions and one may argue for ages witout either party having reached any insight. Actually, something similar goes for the whole sceptic thing. It doesn't lead anywhere. But still every philosopher has to 'go through that stage', so to say. DirkvdM 07:42, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Cool! I see what you mean...seems like I'm still stuck on that stage.LOL!...what would you say is the next step? or the next stage?...like, for example, what is your personal philosophy, and how do you think philosophers 'get over' the skepticism 'stage'?...I mean, for example, how did Russell 'dismiss' or 'get over' Pyrrho?. ( I hope I'm not boring you :( )--Cosmic girl 16:17, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

No worries, I'm not that easily bored, and if I were you'd notice by me not esponding anymore. I don't know how Rusesll got over it and I don't really know how I did. It's a gradual pricess and actually, it isn't over yet. It's a basic thought (or is it a way of thinking?) that is so inescapable I come back to it every now and then. But one has to get on with everyday life. A bit of a boring answer (you're not boring, but my answer is :) ) but there you go. You can't escape the truth of it but you have to because else you're stuck. I suppose that's what made the sceptics accept religion as it is. You can't find the truth so you can't reject anything so you might as well go with the flow. Descartes managed to find one truth, "I think therefore I am", but then got stuck and went on with a lame proof of God. And even that one truth is rather lame if you think about it. It doesn't say anything. By using the words 'I' and 'think' you already assume that such things things exist. And then he goes on to conclude that they exist. But he already assumed that. I've even heard of a proof of God that says the name exists, therefore the entity must also exist. Yeah, right.

Oh, by the way, the Moody Blues came up with a nice variation on Descartes; "I think ... I think I am ... THEREFORE I AM! ... I think ...". DirkvdM 20:10, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Hahaha! yeah I have to agree, Descartes was lame... I mean, how could he not tell if he was just an illusion? and also, descartes's proof of God is really the same thing as the proof that says the name exists so God must exist...same circular reasoning... So...are you a graduated philosopher?, or did you only study it for a while?, where did you study it?, what's your job?.--Cosmic girl 21:03, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Ah, so it was Descartes who used that proof of God, I forgot (it's ironic that he used that when it points out the nonsense of his first 'truth'). I studied philosophy for about two years (in Amsterdam), decided that wouldn't get me a job, so I switched to computer science for a while, which I didn't finish either, so I still don't have a job now. Where do you think I find the time to do so much editing on Misplaced Pages? - I wonder how many unemployed people hang around here. At the moment I'm putting together some ideas for a political party. A bit more than just something to keep me busy. I really want to try that, but for that I need to break away from Misplaced Pages because it consumes most of my time. I can't live with it and I can't live without it. Aaaargh! :) DirkvdM 21:16, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Cool, I don't work either, I just study psychology... I think I also wanna study computer science but I don't know where or what branch exaclty... I wish I could have hacker skills, but not for bad purposes lol, and also know about programing , flash cartoons and stuff like that... I'd loooooooove to learn that!...I think it complements my wish to be a cognitive scientist since that will help me understand AI and stuff like that. How old are you? do you live with your parents? how is amsterdam?...I think we are way off topic but philosophy tends to get borring at times lol.--Cosmic girl 23:05, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Don't expect too much response from me these days because I'm trying to get a bit organised (so it's nothing to do with being bored, as you might think after the remark two postings back :) ).

I'm 43 and live in a sort of student house; same layout but bigger rooms. With plenty of room for a visitor to sleep (I'm also a member of Servas), so if you ever want to find out for yourself what Amsterdam is like, you'll have a place to stay.

So you study psychology. Some philosophy makes a lot of sense for that. Then again, I think every student should get some philosophy education, even at secondary school. Not in the sense of reading big books by long dead guys with long beards, but in the sense of just thinking about things, learning how to take a step back and come up with some insight (your own, not someone else's for a change).

About flash cartoon, just make sure you don't put them on any webpages, because I hate that. I go to webpages for information and it is very hard to read when there is something flashing in the corner of my eye. Even worse is when you can't access a site without a flash plugin. That has to be one of the top ranking irritations on the Internet. But do dabble in programming, if only to have some notion of what makes a computer (and thus our society) tick. I have done a course in Prolog and that taught me that AI thinking is still largely focused on databases, which is the wrong way. DirkvdM 07:07, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

That's very nice of you, thanx! I'll let you know if I ever travel to Europe and tour Amsterdam. :) hahaa and I hate flash cartoons on webpages also, I wouldn't do it...--Cosmic girl 17:27, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

I have a question for you.lol...do you know what was Russells opinion on Deontology? or what ethical system did he have?.--Cosmic girl 21:34, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

No, I don't know much about the philosophies of specific people. I remember the ideas, not who had them. And I largely only remember those ideas insofar as I managed to integrate them into my own thinking. This fits in with what I said above about how philosophy should be used in education. The main idea is to get people to think for themselves. And that's mostly what I do. Remembering who said what is a form of administration and that's boring. :) I sometimes refer to Kant, but that's because I think the same as he did about the way people build up their world view, using the apriori knowledge (formalised in Logic) to order the data that comes in through the senses. And that was also my main interrest in philosophy. I haven't done much with ethics, esthetics and especially metaphysics. DirkvdM 07:48, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

VWN en WCN

Beste allemaal Al enige tijd is er een Nederlandstalig chapter in oprichting, te vinden op http://nl.wikimedia.org . Dit wordt de Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland (VWN). Je kunt je interesse om lid te worden van deze vereniging hier aangeven.

Deze vereniging gaat eind augustus/begin september een Wikimedia Conferentie in Nederland (WCN) houden, volgend op Wikimania in Boston, gedeeltelijk erop inspelend middels een aantal discussiegroepen. Om iets dergelijks te organiseren is imput erg gewenst. Dus als je wilt meehelpen, of als je interesse hebt om bij een dergelijk evenement aanwezig te zijn, geef dat dan aan op nl.wikimedia. Ik hoop daar snel je imput tegemoet te zien! Met vriendelijke groet, effeietsanders 13:41, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

AFTER THE ARCHIVE (stuff before this has escaped archiving)

Baracoa cabin

Hi Dirk, I've added your beautiful photo of a Baracoa cabin to the History of Cuba page, (I'm beginning to lock horns with that most horrible of pages and am trying to sort it out). I've assumed that it is a Taino construction (or at least based on a Taino cabin). Am I correct here?--Zleitzen 05:29, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

That would be a reassonable guess, but I don't know really. A Google image search for taino hut gives different results. They all have palmleaf roofs, but two are square and one is round, whilst one has the roof down to the floor. There must have been some variation. You could say it has a palmleaf roof, as the Taino huts did. I took the photo on a hillridge just south of Baracoa, where there was a little settlement. Most other houses weren't like this one (making more use of modern construction materials). Btw, there is now a version of that picture on Wikimedia Commons, which makes more sense as a source because it is 'universally sourceable' (the one on the English Misplaced Pages may even go).

And while you're doing the Cuban History page, are you going to move some info from the History section of the Cuba article there? That's a bit too long. Some bits, like after the revolution, are even longer there, which doensn't make sense. Success. DirkvdM 06:06, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Dirk, I've replaced the picture with the commons version and adjusted the caption slightly to refer to the palmleaf roof - in case Taino scholars (or El Jigue) get mad with me. I'll see how my work on the History of Cuba page goes before I trim anything from the main page. I quite like the version on the Cuba page, it's fairly stable and hasn't been challenged for a long time - but we'll see. I love your photography by the way.--Zleitzen 11:13, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Image:Africa crowd.jpg

There are several things wrong with this picture:

1. Obsolete tag
2. Lack of source (one of my friends took it is not really a verifyiable source)
3. Not used in articles

Renata 23:04, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I didn't know it was orphaned. I uploaded it for the Overpopulation article, but it was removed from there a few months ago. As for the source, would including the friend's name do? If so, which tag should I use? DirkvdM 06:15, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

One of those daft barnstars

I checked some of your other photos Dirk and you're a talented photographer.

		The Photographer's Barnstar
		For some beautiful photography of Cuba and Costa Rica Zleitzen 08:02, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

My second barnstar. And again for something I kind of feel I might deserve one for (there is method to this daftness :) ). Thanks! DirkvdM 08:08, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Marse bars

2 days later & I'm still laughing - thanks for that! Mattopaedia 08:25, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

And thank you for thanking me here in a signed way, thus luring me to your page and making me aware of AWWDMBJAWGCAWAIFDSPBATDMTD. It's also nice to know that some people actually manage to understand me sometimes. DirkvdM 19:28, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

What about this?

Since original work is not allowed, and wikipedia is likely not to be used to publish one's essay's, what about use of wikipedia here: User:Cott12/Notebook? --JohJak2 11:46, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Spam on Misplaced Pages? Let's see how I should report this. Thanks for pointing out {{TOCright}} to me, though. I'll likely use that somewhere. DirkvdM 13:13, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

You gave the impression that you agreed that this is not an appropriate use of a personal page. Was my impression correct? I also noticed that there is now a Dutch translation: User:Cott12/Sandbox atęcja, placed on the English wiki since it was voted unacceptable on the Dutch wiki. The reason I ask you is that I find the procedures difficult to understand. --JohJak2 11:33, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Spam is trying to sell something to someone who has not shown any iterrest in it whatsoever. Your message here is rather like spam in that sense (the subject even looks rather despicable to me, but I haven't really bothered to read it). I have not acted on it yet, but another post here will change that. DirkvdM 14:18, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

I do not understand your reply. Why do you call my message spam? Are you under the impression that I want to "sell" you this idea? I assure you that you are wrong there. I did not realise that when I bring something to your attention that I am spamming. To be clear, it was you, not I who called it spam. And the reason I ask your opinion is because I have seen your name frequently on an advisory Reference Desk. I would like this page removed! And now even two pages. Because I call it inappropriate use of personal space. Not only that, it is even "original work", which, AFAIK is not allowed. I am, however, overwhelmed by the procedures about getting articles removed, especially ones that are so craftily hidden in the wikipedia sphere, but may be found by Google. And you do seem to know your way around. If you are unwilling to look into this, please advise me where I can place this for removal. If you rather want me to ask someone else, then I will do so. Furthermore, I also do not understand your last remark: "...another post here will change that." What kind of post, and what will it change? --JohJak2 15:29, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I totally misunderstood your intentions. I thought you wanted to spread some idea by linking to it at random user pages (which would constitute a form of spam), but now I understand that you want it removed. Sorry about the misunderstanding and my reaction.

I'm not sure if putting something like that on a user subpage breaks any rules. And if so, I wouldn't have the ability to remove it. You'd need an admistrator for that. I am fairly active at the ref desk, but that doesn't mean I know the ins and outs of Misplaced Pages proper (the encyclopedia bit). Better first ask at the help desk about the rules on this. DirkvdM 18:34, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

photo DirkvdM hairy fly.jpg

Why don't you try to pass it as Featured picture.It's really an ungly little devel.--Pixel ;-) 18:30, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

I've already nominated three photos and am learning from that. I take them one at a time. This one will get it's turn. You could also nominate it, by the way, if you so desire. DirkvdM 18:58, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Possibly unfree Image:Fidel-recent-bw.jpg

Just in case it gets deleted, for reference here's the source of the photo: http://www.pcc.cu/pccweb/glosario/personalidades/fidel_castro.php (photo location http://www.pcc.cu/pccweb/glosario/personalidades/images/fidel.jpg).

Upon reading above message I added the following to the talk page:

I have noticed with photographs on photostock sites that photographs of people taken in Cuba lack the notice of consent of the people in the photograph. I take this as an indication of usual copyright not being applicable in Cuba, which would indeed be in keeping with the philosophy of a socialist country. However, I do not know Cuban law. Another consideration is that it's a government photograph and those tend to be in the public domain, I believe. DirkvdM 05:42, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Misandry

I hope my comment didn't come across as a male-bashing. I suppose I meant that, in my experience, many women do seem to be quite knowledgable regarding men and their psychology, and have on many occasions pointed out aspects of male behavior, that I hadn't been aware of. You are, of course, right that the reverse statement would have been offensive; I guess I also tend to show less scruples about making 'sexist', 'racist' etc comments, when the target of ridicule is my own 'group'. But I didn't mean to lump all men together, I know there are plenty of exceptions out there. I guess the only excuse I have for my careless phrasing is the fact that I am male... oops this is getting circular. Cheers! :) ---Sluzzelin 10:52, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

No worries. I just like to give a fresh perspective to set people's minds working, which sometimes comes across as irritation or such, but it's all intended in good taste and all that. No offence was taken or intended. DirkvdM 11:16, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

RD modification

If you haven't been reading the RD talk page, I would appreciate some input on a proposed re-arrangement of the reference desks. I have set up a demo here, and I am coming close to finishing the base code for the entire RD suite. It should be noted that there is no plan to use these pages without the aid of an archiving bot, and by that I mean to imply that they are being to be used with a bit that will be made for them. Once a few more things have been set in stone, I will re-issue the bot request. Thanks.  freshofftheufoΓΛĿЌ  12:01, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

The "Other places to ask" is supposed to be stuck at the bottom of "Topics", they're part of the same table, I just made the "Other places to ask" label eye catching by giving it the same design as the table captions. If it gets all stretchy for very wide screens, I guess I should set a maximum width on the tables, so that it only expands to a certain width. Ideally, the white space on the bottom left will be filled with something. I just haven't figured out what yet.  freshofftheufoΓΛĿЌ  11:52, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure why you tell me this here, but I've replied at User talk:Freshgavin/Sandbox/Reference desk. Btw, I now see that you already gave me the link I asked for at the ref desk here a while ago. DirkvdM 12:14, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Dirk van der Made, Dirkvdm, DirkvdM

Hi, I tagged the three redirects you made per CSD R2. -- Gogo Dodo 08:53, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Redirects to your user page

Please do not create redirects to your user page in the main namespace. They fall under speedy criterion R2 and are deleted on sight. Thank you, and happy editing, Kusma (討論) 08:53, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

re: ==Is Flemish Mutually Intelligible With Dutch?== by DirkvdM 06:31, 10 October 2006 (UTC) on Misplaced Pages:Reference desk/Language (section)

Wow, thank you. What do you mean subtleties? Danke.100110100 02:35, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

When you listen to someone, you make guesses at what they mean (meaning is rarely as clear as people seem to think it is) and if you have a good mutual understanding of the words used (ie you're both native pseakers) you may get very close. The less common gound you have, the harder it will be to get the exact meaning. When listening to Frisian or South African, I make loads of educated guesses and will usually get it about right, but I have to keep up with the speed at which they are speaking, so some things will just 'slip'. Those are the subtleties I mean. DirkvdM 03:46, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

American English

I responded to your question at Misplaced Pages:Reference desk archive/Miscellaneous/2006 October 10#lyrics, in case you don't frequently check the entirely of the RD archives for updates (ha). --Tardis 23:00, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Deleted comments

Not unless you posed as an anon and started calling everying a "fucking pope loving nazi".  freshofftheufoΓΛĿЌ  08:28, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm, can't remember having ever done that. :) DirkvdM 08:31, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Photos Santa Fé

Those are some impressive photos in Santa Fé, Veraguas, but as you note, it urgently needs some encyclopedic content. Since they appear to be on Commons already, perhaps the better use for them would be to choose one or two that are most representative of the area and for the rest put a link to Commons and create a gallery there. Incidentally, I looked, and the Spanish Misplaced Pages doesn't have this article yet, either, or I'd consider translating some content. Perhaps a stub notice is in order. —Dvortygirl 23:38, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Ah, yes, forgot about that. My idea was to first get the photos uploaded and in place and then later write the articles. But, as things tend to go, I got involved in other stuff and forgot about that last bit. I don't see why some photos should go, though. I could reduce the size of most because they are rather big. I'll work on that later today. Thanks for reminding me. DirkvdM 04:16, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Trip to Africa

Hello! I'm a bit curious about the flag at the end of your list of places you visited in Africa. Was that another place you visited afterwards? --HappyCamper 09:29, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

No, that was the return trip (aeroflot had the cheapest deal). Like I say above the list, I didn't even leave the airport. So technically speaking I wasn't even in the USSR (an airport is international ground), but I thought it looked cool to add it to the list. :) DirkvdM 09:37, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

History of the automobile

Please refer to Talk:History of the automobile for a discussion about the yank tanks revert. --SFoskett 14:34, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Barnstar

A bit of an odd barnstar, but you helped me with a question on the HD four days before my subspecialty exams in gastroenterology. Wanted to say thanks so much! -- Samir धर्म 06:45, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

So you tricked me into helping you out with homework? :) Ok, if you won't point out to me that an exam isn't homework, then I won't point out to you that it was on the Reference Desk, not on the Help Desk. :) DirkvdM 03:48, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

About :DirkvdM natural spiral.jpg

Hi,

I just want to know if it's possible to send me by email in hight resolution one of your picture, the Image:DirkvdM natural spiral.jpg.

I've found it absolutly beautiful, and would like expose it in my room.

(Sorry for my English, I'm French)

Best Regards.

mail : dieunexistepas@hotmail.com

Antoine Dubois.

Thanks for the compliment, but I am trying to make money with the high resolution versions of my photographs, so it wouldn't make sense to start giving them away. Sorry. DirkvdM 03:57, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

VERB. ABGEBAUT

I used a belhuis to make a call to England and got a busy signal (fast beep beep beep) and 'VERB. ABGEBAUT' came on the phone screen. The clerk couldn't tell me what it meant. Do you know? It returns four google results but they're foreign. --Username132 (talk) 12:24, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

'Abbauen' is German for 'breaking off' (at least that is one of the meanings), and 'verb' probably means 'verbindung', so the message would mean 'connection broken'. Or it might mean the number you are calling doesn't exist anymore. Not sure. One of those Google hits suggests the telephone company is to blame, but they're just guessing. Another is about internet protocols, saying that after a TCP data exchange, the 'connection is broken'. Not sure what that would mean specifically, though. DirkvdM 04:12, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Ok, thank you! Now I've checked out skype and wont be using one of those places any time soon! --Username132 (talk) 00:23, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

natural spiral.jpg

Ho, I'm sorry, I haven't see that.

So, how much for this picture ? (natural spiral) (And just one precision, what is the original resolution ?)

Antoine Dubois.

The original pixel size is 2272x1704 (taken with an Ixus400, a 4mp camera). To be honest, I don't yet know what prices I should ask for my photos because this would be my first sale. My idea was to sell the rights to the photos, so in the order of hundreds of euro's, and that would of course be too much for you. But then, maybe I could send you a print. A 30x45 print (larger would not be advisable at this pixel size) would cost just a few euro on photo paper and also less than 10 euro for postage to France. Since this is my first sale and making money is less important to me now than the experience of actually selling a photograph, let's say 25 euro for the whole deal (print, postage plus my fee). Would that be ok with you? DirkvdM 12:07, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

I prefer do it by myself, because a can use Freely a HP Z3100, with that i'm sure to obtaint the best quality, and above all, a special resolution of impression (53.34*40), i think the original resolution would be sufficient. And of course for the price, no shipping cost, no photo paper.

So if your interested, tell me your price.

disambiguation page

You asked if a disambiguation page may link to another disambiguation page. I see no problem with that. However, - and maybe that's just me - I always find it misleading when a disambig page says: "History may also refer to: Natural History". The word "history" never refers to natural history, unless you stretch the meaning of "refers" beyond the meaning of a reference. I would write something like "it also occurs in the following terms:", but this is unfortunately not WP standard. — Sebastian (talk) 09:33, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Moving articles

Hee, als je een artikel verplaatst zoals One NL is het beter om het te doen met "move" in plaats van te copy/pasten, zodat de edit-geschiedenis niet verdwijnt. Groeten! jaco♫plane 10:00, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Ja, dat wist ik, maar ik was iet al te wakker toen ik het deed. Foutje, sorry. Ik zie dat je het al verholpen hebt. Bedankt dat je mijn rotzooi achter me opgeruimd hebt. DirkvdM 18:09, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Ben-Gurione on reference desk

WARNING. 'Ben-Gurione' or '24.177.35.252' sometimes posts a bunch of random question. Not quite trolling, but a nuisance nevertheless. Please ignore him. DirkvdM 09:07, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure what about posting a lot of questions means we should ignore this user. He/She could just be very curious, and if so we should answer all the questions. I am concerned that putting up WARNINGs after every comment would create an atmosphere discouraging both Ben-Gurione and other anonymous users from posting questions—would you consider removing your remarks to the ref desk talk page? -- SCZenz 19:44, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

He's been at the ref desk before, after a while getting on people's nerves because he kept on asking random questions, like this time about the youngest member of the US congress and the average annual sex partners. But I must admit that this time they are not all simple factual questions, so I suppose I overreacted based on previous experience. I will remove the warnings. DirkvdM 06:47, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

However, look at Misplaced Pages:Reference_desk/Humanities#Man and monkey. Shantavira apparently remembers him and has copied my comment. DirkvdM 09:18, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

edit summaries

do you mind using edit summaries? Thank you, --MarSch 16:02, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Dutch_general_election%2C_2006&diff=89663954&oldid=89663701
2. http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Dutch_general_election%2C_2006&diff=89662484&oldid=89662237
3. http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Dutch_general_election%2C_2006&diff=89661351&oldid=89660662
4. http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Dutch_general_election%2C_2006&diff=89660662&oldid=89659738

No I don't, I just tend to forget about them. DirkvdM 18:41, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Reference desk removal

Hi, I wanted to let you know that I thought an off-topic side discussion you started was starting to get out of hand, so I removed it. If you have any concerns, I am more than happy to discuss them. -- SCZenz 07:08, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, a concern is that one should never remove anyone's contribution to the ref desk. Off-topicity is both a problem and an incentive. It may disturb some but it is also part of the fun for many editors. If no fun were allowed many would eventually leave, which would be a loss. Most useful editors like these kinds of jokes and that is part of the reason they visit the ref desk in the first place. DirkvdM 07:16, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

I understand it's a concern. But when things go very far off-topic, particularly in a way that may offend our audience to no purpose, then it becomes time to bring things back on track. If the reference desk were a page from which "one should never remove anyone's contribution," then it would be the only such page on Misplaced Pages; however, this is not the case. -- SCZenz 07:24, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Please don't re-add off-topic discussion

Please to not re-add discussion that does not serve the purpose of the reference desk. I've talked this issue to death already, and I have succinctly described what I am doing and why on this page: User:SCZenz/Reference desk removals. Please read it, and discuss it with me all you want; or you can report me for admin abuse at the appropriate place... but please don't re-add the discussion. -- SCZenz 07:27, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

If you can refer to an actual wikipedia policy I may give. If not, the common sense rule applies that it is rude to remove people's additions to the ref desk. DirkvdM 07:36, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

I refer to talk page policy, and general Misplaced Pages policy, as highly relevant... in the essay I've already linked. Please take the time to read it in discuss; in my role as an administrator, I must insist that you do not re-add off-topic posts. I do not see that you're giving me an alternative, if you won't discuss the issue.

If it helps, I apologize for springing this on you in this manner, rather than discussing the edits in question before removing them; perhaps you've been unaware of the ongoing discussions on this issue on Misplaced Pages talk:Reference desk. -- SCZenz 07:40, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

After edit conflict:

If you want mediation, you ask for it. There is a waiting list for mediation, so asking there will come down to you getting your way by default because ref desk threads are short-lasting. If this is your crusade, you should put effort into getting this to become official policy. If you manage to do that and there are clear rules (as opposed to your whim) then you will have convinced me. (And the ref desk will become a boring and eventually deserted place.) DirkvdM 07:43, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

WP:NOT#Misplaced Pages is not a bureaucracy. Misplaced Pages:Use common sense. We don't need reference desk-specific rules to have the same ideas apply there that do on our talk pages—and our talk pages are required to stay on-topic. Let me allow you to read my explanation page, though, rather than repeating myself. -- SCZenz 07:48, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

What do you mean, not willing to discuss? That's what we are doing here, isn't it? I'll have a look at that discussion now. DirkvdM 07:44, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

I meat, discuss without edit warring at the reference desk. -- SCZenz 07:48, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep in mind that you started this 'war'. The burden of proof lies with you. DirkvdM 07:52, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

After another edit conlict:

I read it. It's an ongoing discussion, nowhere near policy. Once that is estabished, you can point me to it and I will then follow that. Or contest it. But I will follow it until I have successfully contested it. Unlike what you are now doing. It is downright rude to censor people. Who is to decide what is to stay and what is to go? DirkvdM 07:51, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

A very lengthy discussion I had with StuRat on the subject is now in the archives somewhere. But the distilled version of what I concluded from that talk is at User:SCZenz/Reference desk removals, which says basically everything I can say right now. -- SCZenz 07:53, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

That 'stay on topic' policy is about staying the topic of the atrticle on a talk page, not about the ref desk. About your pov on your sub-page, well, it's just that. You're entitled to it, but it gives you no reason to censor people. Also, you have the decency to tell me about the removal, which I appreciate, but removing posts is still a method that is likely to piss people off. You might have more impact if you pointed out your opinions to people and thus managed to convince them. Otherwise you might still get revert wars, which will consume much more of your time. I know, I've been there. DirkvdM 07:59, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

To say that neither article page nor talk page rules apply on the reference desk, so you can do whatever you want, is clear wikilawyering. I have explained myself in great detail. Think for a second... how does it improve Misplaced Pages to revert war over your off-topic penis joke? If there's a revert war here it's of your making; I just tried to remove an off-topic post from project space. -- SCZenz 08:02, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Who is the one who starts a revert war? Isn't that the first one to do a revert? And keep in mind this is not an article, it's a reference desk, where editing other people's comments is just not done. Also, the rule says something about how one should talk on a talk page. It says nothing about being allowed to remove people's comments. And I didn't make a penis joke. I merely pointed out that I thought the question was about pulling back the foreskin. This made me laugh, so I thought I'd let others in on it. If you had your way the ref desk would be a dull place indeed. And StuRat, one of the most active and useful editors there, would certainly leave. Along with many others. But all that's irrelevant here. You make this wikipolicy and then come back to me. In the meantime, don't censor others. Misplaced Pages is not a dictatorship either. DirkvdM 08:32, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

"it's a reference desk, where editing other people's comments is just not done" That's the problem; it hasn't been done. However, it is being done now, because the reference desk has gotten out of hand. Many users have commented on this problem, and I have discussed the issue at great length with several users in order to find a resolution... But complaints that I'm spoiling your fun, cries of censorship, and threats to leave or edit war no longer impress me. I've taken the time to address them all, as you've seen. You may not agree that my arguments are convincing. But I have taken this action in my capacity as an administrator on English Misplaced Pages. Your recourse now, if you like, is to complain about my heavy-handedness. However, you may not re-add your off-topic comments. I'm happy to discuss these issues, but there's nothing more I can say; for what it's worth, I am personally sorry that this direct use of authority was necessary. -- SCZenz 08:45, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Threats? Begging your pardon, but if anyone's threatening it's you. I'm just having a discussion and would appreciate it if you'd stop putting your threats into practise. Being an admin gives you more power, not more rights. And please don't shout. I am sometimes tempted to remove edits by people who shout, but I don't because that would be improper behaviour and one should not fight terrorism with terrorism (speaking of off-topicity). :) DirkvdM 09:58, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

I wasn't shouting. I was emphasizing an important point so that you would not ignore it. -- SCZenz 16:23, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

So your most important point is that you're the boss? If that is your attitude then I will certainly not budge. DirkvdM 20:31, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Btw, it was not a discussion (just a short remark and a short reaction) and it was not a penis joke. Don't misname things to get your way. And it was indeed off-topic, but the humour lied in the fact that I misunderstood what was the topic. DirkvdM 10:53, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

A question, if you'd like to discuss this issue further

If the talk page rules do not apply to the reference desk, and the article editing rules don't apply either... what does? We know from item 5 in WP:NOT#Wikipedia_is_not_a_publisher_of_original_thought that Misplaced Pages doesn't do discussion forums. So then, what is the reference desk, and how are the rules at the top of the page to be enforced? -- SCZenz 08:49, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

What do discussion forums have to do with this? If certain rules don't apply, then find others that do. You are the one taking action, so you need to point out to me what I'm doing wrong, not the other way around. DirkvdM 10:04, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

The point is, there aren't any that apply, according to a very narrow reading of the rules. I was hoping you would see that a very narrow reading of the rules isn't productive. -- SCZenz 16:23, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

I hope that you will see that making up your own rules isn't either. DirkvdM 20:31, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Block warning

You have re-added inappropriate material (i.e. irrelevant discussion) to the reference desk here after being told very clearly not to do so. At this point, in my judgement you are disrupting Misplaced Pages. If you re-add the material again, you will be blocked without further warning. -- SCZenz 16:27, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

You're the one who is disruptive. DirkvdM 19:27, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry you feel that way; you are entitled to your opinion, and you are entitled to complain about my administrative actions. Nevertheless, you have chosen to disrupt Misplaced Pages again with this edit and I am blocking you for 12 hours to prevent further disruption to the reference desk. -- SCZenz 20:46, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

If you are willing to agree not to again restore those comments, I will unblock you immediately. -- SCZenz 21:16, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

SCZenz's behavior

Dirk, I don't know if you read through our lengthy discussion on the Ref Desk talk page, so I will summarize it here. I showed, using all the applicable policies, that SCZenz should not be removing posts in the way threatened. However, SCZenz then said such posts would be removed anyway, even if that action violates policy. If you want to complain about SCZenz abusing Admin authority, I support that. And I absolutely agree with you that the first person to do a revert is the one who is starting a revert war. StuRat 17:15, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, he isn't abusing admin power because anyone can do what he does. He treatens to block me, but that could cost him his admin status. Whether being admin gives him more authority in this matter, I'm not sure, but that is not how I understand what being an admin is about, so it has nothing to do with that. I suppose the best word is vandalism. To report him we'd have to go through a whole procedure and I first wanted to see if he would let it be. The annoying thing about this is that most of the time I will not notice any removals of my posts unless he tells me, like he did here. But I understand he wants to make it policy to remove posts at his whim and that will certainly not do. Now that he has actually threatened to block me I suppose it's time for action. I'll first put a warning on his user page, to follow procedure. Alas, if he blocks me (I just reverted his deletion again before I read his threat here) I suppose I can't complain about it. I don't really know, and I don't know for how long it will be. Maybe if it's for more than a day you could then take the next step. DirkvdM 19:27, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

I put a {{test3}} template on his talk page. Funny, now he has a warning on his talk page that he will be blocked if he doesn't stop. :) I don't suppose he has the power to unblock himself. DirkvdM 19:36, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Btw, what should we complain about and where? That he vandalises other people's edits, that he plans to do so systematically, that he misuses his status as an admin (see shouting above) or that he threatens to misuse his powers as an admin? The latter two are approaches, but I'd say that the second bit is the most important. Other admins can then draw their own conclusions. DirkvdM 20:31, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

One place to complain would be the Administrators' Noticeboard, where I just created a section asking for review of my actions. WP:AN/I#Reference_desk_problem_and_block. You could also look at Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment. And, since you're currently blocked, you could use {{Unblock}} to request review of that here on your talk page. -- SCZenz 21:15, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Common sense

Misplaced Pages is not a discussion forum. Making jokes about your opinions on what you thought something meant is not appropriate. The reference desk is there to provide responses to questions - not for general banter. You must remember that, yes, policies have a 'written meaning' but they also have a 'spirit' - ie. the point of 3RR is to prevent revert warring. To duck under the limit over and over again would technically not be a breach of the policy, but it would be against the spirit of it. In this case, the reference desk talk pages are not, as SCZenz points out, specifically covered by policies regarding comments there - however, using common sense along with the point that wikipedia is an encyclopedia and the fact that the reference desk is not a place for general discussion forum, removing your comment was entirely appropriate in order to keep the page on topic and relevant. I would support SCZenz's actions again if the situation were similar.-Localzuk 21:26, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Whose common sense are we considering today? Yours or mine?--Light current 00:42, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

The term 'common sense' refers to a communal thinking pattern based on what is sensible and reasonable. If you look at the AN/I page mentioned above you will see that his actions have the support of another admin too. I would say that the common sense thing to do on an encyclopedia is to keep it focussed on being an encyclopedia...-Localzuk 00:45, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

So what functions do the RD pages perform in making an encyclopedia?--Light current 02:30, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

They perform a related function; they assist people in organizing and finding information, particularly from Misplaced Pages. I admit they are unique in this regard, but certainly they are not discussion pages. -- SCZenz 03:09, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

There are really four issues here, two general (1 and 3) and two specific (2 and 4)

1. Whether people can occasionally have a bit of fun at the ref desk. This sometimes gets a bit out of hand in the sense that many people join in and a nonsense-subthread gets a bit long. But this also shows that there is a 'need' for this. Many people at the ref desk have a certain mindset, with an interrest in trivia and clever quips. If they constantly have to worry about whether a certain off-topic or witty remark wll result in the deletion of their post they may leave the ref desk. A rough guess is that those people deliver about half the useful replies at the ref desk. If they leave, the ref desk will not only become boring but might even wither away because if there are not enough useful answers, people will stop coming back with questions too.
2. Whether the remarks that LightCurrent and I made was an example of something that needs to be dealt with. It was just two remarks (at that moment, I must admit), of which the second was actually informative, albeit off-topic, naming the thing I was referring to and providing a link to a university hospital site. Btw, there's also the possibility that SCZenz didn't mind the off-topicity or the humour but the fact that it had something to do with the penis. Another example of a bad deletion is this, where someone removed a question because it was medical in nature.
3. If certain things are not allowed, how to deal with them. Deleting people's posts at talk pages and the ref desk is censorship, and a bit like stealing mail. It's worse than being blocked (which I know from very recent experience :) ) because when you're blocked you know what you're up against. One may respond, but not delete, Id' say. If this is made policy then who should decide what can be deleted, who should be allowed to do it (on Misplaced Pages usually everyone, but should more than one person agree on the deletion first?), should the person whose post is deleted be notified (and what if it's a newbie who isn't logged in?) and lots more I imagine. A consideration here is that the ref desk is neither an article nor a talk page, so there should be separate rules. But there have to be rules before they can be applied. Which brings me to the next point.
4. Whether SCZenz may singlehandedly make policy. There is some discussion going on at the ref desk talk page, but as far as I can see there has been no consent yet. eg Wikipedia_talk:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#Funny answers. Btw, there, SCZenz remarks we don't need rules, which I contest here.
   1. Sub-issue:Whether an admin may use his powers (in casu blocking me) in a discussion he is one of the original parties in. I thought that was not allowed.

Btw, I was not aware that there was a violation of the 3RR. I had completely forgotten about that. DirkvdM 08:25, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

I've never claimed to be making policy. I do claim that policy already exists that says that the reference desk isn't a discussion forum, and I also claim that if something is bad for Misplaced Pages then removing it is good (with the consent of the poster if possible) and restoring it is disruptive. Your problem here is that you believe your "free speech rights" trump what's good for Misplaced Pages; you've got it backwards, I'm afraid. Your misunderstandings here may explain why you believed other admins would censure me for blocking you, when in fact you can see at WP:AN/I that they have supported me. I can respect that you believe Misplaced Pages ought to work differently than it does, but all I can say is that you have the right to create an entirely new encyclopedia, using all of Misplaced Pages's content, which works the way you want. -- SCZenz 08:33, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Your last remark is complete nonsense. What is the budget of Misplaced Pages? Do you think I have that kind of money? And would it be a good thing if there were competing Wikipedias?

How does 'Misplaced Pages is not a discussion forum' apply here? Ironically, it's the other way around. Our remarks were not much of a discussion, but (stepping up to a higher level) the nature of the ref desk is that it is a discussion forum. Saying that the ref desk should only give answers is naive. Simple questions can be answered by linking to the right article, in which case the questioneer didn't follow the rules, so should their question be removed then? Most questions are more complicated and can only be answered by estimates, which are then open to discussion. If you remove all simple questions and discussions the ref desk will cease to exist. To stress the point, should philosophical questions be allowed on the ref desk? Should there be a humanities ref desk at all? By far most posts there are part of a discussion.

Which brings me to the question why you didn't delete all those discussion threads, but did remove a short remark instead. You seem to be giving false reasons for your deletion.

The discussion about which rules should be applied and if there should be any and all that is still very hot and unresolved, with your pov forming a minority. So I repeat the question. Should you be allowed to unilaterally make policy (and decide if there should be any at all)? DirkvdM 09:21, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

The purpose of the reference desk is to provide information. Opinions and arguments do not serve that purpose. When you make off-topic comments, then you are turning it into a general discussion forum—even if there hasn't been a full discussion about that particular remark yet. Questions about philisophical questions and how they have been addressed are allowed; queries for the opinions of the ref desk editors are not or at least should not be answered (although since we don't want to bite the newbies, we should turn such questions into factual ones whenever possible rather than complaining to them).

Regarding you forming your own encyclopedia, I'm aware you probably can't. However, it is your legal right to do so; your inability to do so does not give you the right to impose your vision of how things should be on this encyclopedia.

It was your suggestion. DirkvdM 19:22, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

I stress again that you, and a few other people who have gotten in the habit of misusing the reference desk, are missing something. Misplaced Pages is ultimately run by common sense—with goals in mind—not based on narrow interpretations of explicitly spelled-out policies. I'm no longer (and in fact never was) the only administrator supporting this approach to the reference desk. Now that you know that, what next? Do you claim that we're all wrong, and you're right? -- SCZenz 16:56, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Against the most active active ref desk people, you form a minority. DirkvdM 19:22, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

I'll give you the last word here; there's no point to further discussion. If you truly believe that somewhere on Misplaced Pages are the real admins, who'll punish me and my cabal for our oppression and censorship, then a likely next step is to file a Misplaced Pages:Request for comment to get organized community feedback. -- SCZenz 16:56, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

If it's populated by people who know what they are talking about (people who are active at the ref desk), that's fine with me. I proposed to get a consensus about rules for deletion. And most of all if there should be any deletions at all. DirkvdM 19:22, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Welcome back from your block

I'm looking forward to you answering questions on the number of spots on a ladybug's back with a rambling response that always somehow leads to everything being the fault of the "improper democracy in the US". :-) StuRat 10:52, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

A block has its advantages. Not only do I get the opportunity to do some things in real life, I also get a warm welcome when I return. I should ask SCZenz to do this more often. :) DirkvdM 11:36, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

That's right, you need time to cash those government welfare checks. Or do they do direct deposit (because going to the bank would be too close to actual work) ? :-) StuRat 12:51, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

The Netherlands is a civilised nation. We don't send old ladies out in the cold to collect their pension. Or is this an employment scheme in the US? Get people to do the pointless work of manning tellers that could have been replaced by a computer? :) DirkvdM 19:11, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Listen buddy, 12 hrs may be a nice rest-- but 3 days or a week can seem VERY long. Also, when you come back, people have forgotten all about you! I should know! 8-)--Light current 18:42, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Who are you? :) DirkvdM 19:11, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Hey, I've got an idea! Why not start our own little ref desks on our talk pages? Then they can block us all they want, we can still edit here! :) DirkvdM 19:11, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

(maybe we should stop adding smileys - were starting to look like a bunch of grinning idiots DirkvdM 19:14, 29 November 2006 (UTC))

some of us are 8-))--Light current 17:05, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Careful with irony if your answer may not be appropriate. Big bad SCZenz might delete your post. DirkvdM 09:26, 2 December 2006 (UTC)