Talk:Islam and domestic violence

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mistranslation

In a hadith it was writtern that there was amark on herdue to domestic violence. This waswritten within brackets showing that it was translater’s view that he thought mark was caused due to beating. So i think it should be removedto make hadith better. Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Smatrah (talk • contribs) 10:45, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

Non objective parts in the article

Q: in what encyclopedia does it say (peace be upon him) after mentioning Muhammad? How does that adhere to objectivity?

In addition, where do all the extra additions in brackets come from while quoting the quran or hadith? How exactly did you decide that -first- you condemn your wife, -second- don't share the same bed with her and only then -third- are alllowrd to beat her -lightly-. Such interpertations do not appear in the original text and should not appear in an objective encyclopedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.232.134.166 (talk) 00:05, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

We Have a problem

@Koreangauteng: I explained all my reasons and the hadith which your giving do not support domestic abuse one did then the prophet later clarified they are not the best among you. Scholars of islam have gave there views on the matter that is enough you gave richard Spenser as well as a polish institutes views on the matter are not credible one as one of them is a christian apologetic and the hadith about a women having a bruise is not even relevant here firstly the prophet didn't side with the man and the women came to the prophet to complain her husband is impotent not about her being abused and her desire was to return to her ex who divorced her and the marriage was consummated as she claimed he was impotent while the guy said I did satisfy her. The second hadith is false please show the full hadith the prophet didn't hit aisha just because she left the house and there is another hadith from aisha herself that states the prophet never struck a women or a servant.

The hadith in question

Rifa`a divorced his wife whereupon `AbdurRahman bin Az-Zubair Al-Qurazi married her. `Aisha said that the lady (came), wearing a green veil (and complained to her (Aisha) of her husband and showed her a green spot on her skin caused by beating). It was the habit of ladies to support each other, so when Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) came, `Aisha said, "I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women. Look! Her skin is greener than her clothes!" When `AbdurRahman heard that his wife had gone to the Prophet, he came with his two sons from another wife. She said, "By Allah! I have done no wrong to him but he is impotent and is as useless to me as this," holding and showing the fringe of her garment, `Abdur-Rahman said, "By Allah, O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! She has told a lie! I am very strong and can satisfy her but she is disobedient and wants to go back to Rifa`a." Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, to her, "If that is your intention, then know that it is unlawful for you to remarry Rifa`a unless `Abdur-Rahman has had sexual intercourse with you." Then the Prophet (ﷺ) saw two boys with `Abdur- Rahman and asked (him), "Are these your sons?" On that `AbdurRahman said, "Yes." The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "You claim what you claim (i.e.. that he is impotent)? But by Allah, these boys resemble him as a crow resembles a crow,"

https://sunnah.com/bukhari/77/42

Aisha said the Messenger of Allah (saws ) never struck a servant or a woman. https://sunnah.com/abudawud/43/14

....She said: When it was my turn for Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) to spend the night with me, he turned his side, put on his mantle and took off his shoes and placed them near his feet, and spread the corner of his shawl on his bed and then lay down till he thought that I had gone to sleep. He took hold of his mantle slowly and put on the shoes slowly, and opened the door and went out and then closed it lightly. I covered my head, put on my veil and tightened my waist wrapper, and then went out following his steps till he reached Baqi'. He stood there and he stood for a long time. He then lifted his hands three times, and then returned and I also returned. He hastened his steps and I also hastened my steps. He ran and I too ran. He came (to the house) and I also came (to the house). I, however, preceded him and I entered (the house), and as I lay down in the bed, he (the Holy Prophet) entered the (house), and said: Why is it, O 'A'isha, that you are out of breath? I said: There is nothing. He said: Tell me or the Subtle and the Aware would inform me. I said: Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be ransom for you, and then I told him (the whole story). He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He gave me a nudge on the chest which I felt, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you?....https://sunnah.com/urn/221270

The hadith you gave about treating your wife like a sex slave if she is pregnant at the time of marriage is weak (daif) its not credible https://muflihun.com/abudawood/12/2126 so please researcher properly

Arsi786 talk 00:48, 21 February 2020

Along with the recent @Arsi786: unexplained deletions and additions of the article's content as well as the various-Editor-selected-(all Primary???-source)-Hadiths {quoted} - there are potentially many more hadiths which could be quoted in this section === In The Hadith === below is a selection:

"Passages coming from the Hadith maintain the idea of wife beating in the following verses: Bukhari (72:715) - A woman came to Muhammad and begged her to stop her husband from beating her. Her skin was bruised so badly that she it is described as being “greener” than the green veil she was wearing. Muhammad did not admonish her husband, but instead ordered her to return to him and submit to his sexual desires. In a different place, Aisha said: “I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women”. This is Muhammad's own wife complaining of the abuse that the women of her religions suffer relative to other women. In Hadith Muslim (4:2127) - Muhammad struck his favourite wife, Aisha, in the chest one evening when she left the house without his permission. According to Abu Dawud (2141) at first, Muhammad forbade men from beating their wives, but he rescinded this once it was reported that women were becoming emboldened toward their husbands. “Beatings are sometimes necessary to keep women in their place”325. Abu Dawud (2126) describes a situation when a Muslim man thinks he is getting a virgin, then finds out she is pregnant. Muhammad tells him to treat the woman as a sex slave and then flog her after she has delivered the child. Ishaq/Hisham 969 - requires that a married woman be “put in a separate room and beaten lightly” if she “acts in a sexual manner toward others”. According to the Hadith, this can be for an offense as petty as merely being alone with a man to whom she is not related. Kash-shaf (the revealer) of al-Zamkhshari (Vol. 1, p.525) - Muhammad said: “Hang up your scourge where your wife can see it (...). "

https://kpfu.ru/staff_files/F1555215559/SOCIAL.PROBLEMS.IN.EUROPE..finalis_.3.pdf#page=222

Note the researchers are investigating Social problems in Europe: Dilemmas and possible solutions. They have identified verses in the Hadiths which they consider may contribute. They may be right or they might be wrong, but it remains their findings. This is an Encyclopedia. You are welcome to add content to a possible new section >> Hadith interpretations that do not support domestic violence.

I recommend that the findings of the above examination, and the source from which it comes, is RS Misplaced Pages content.

I recognize Robert Spencer has been deemed as not a RS.

I recommend all direct Hadith {quotations} should be removed. Koreangauteng (talk) 01:19, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

@Koreangauteng: Please look through the above evidence I have provided the proof you have given are not sincere and are vastly different from the hadith's in question Arsi786 talk 01:25, 21 February 2020

Misleading sentence

Mcphurphy inserted All four Sunni schools of jurisprudence institutionalised wife beating as a form of discipline against rebellious wives. But the source says, The source actually says our major Sunni legal schools that “institutionalized” the exegetes’ cosmology by rendering wife-beating a disciplinary means of returning rebellious women to their right place in that cosmology.

Clearly the verb "institutionalize" is not referring to "wife-beating" but to the "exegetes' cosmology". Removing until we can find a neutral way to include this.VR _talk 04:25, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

How about "The discussions in all four Sunni law schools institutionalised the viewpoint of the Quranic exegetes by turning wife-beating into a means of discipline against rebellious wives."

That should accurately represent what the source said: "This argument is supported by references to both exegetical literature on Q. 3:34 (chapter 2), and to discussions in the four major Sunni legal schools that “institutionalized” the exegetes’ cosmology by rendering wife-beating a disciplinary means of returning rebellious women to their right place in that cosmology (chapter 3). " Mcphurphy (talk) 07:24, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

POV statement

The following is a POV statement: The Hanafi jurists say that it is the husband's duty to physically discipline his wife's disobedience (nushuz). They permitted the husband a lot of leeway in the severity of the beating. The Hanafi scholars assert that the husband is allowed to hit his wife even if that causes wounds or broken bones. Their only condition is that the beating must not kill her. It is at odds with numerous sources. It is also being taken out of context, where there are two steps of admonishment and abandonment before the hitting. Also removing until this can be included in NPOV way.VR _talk 04:29, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

Just a quick google search turned two sources that contradict this. This reliable source points out that the Ottoman-era Hanafis recognized abuse as grounds for ending the marriage, arguing "a true Muslim would not beat his wife, therefore a man who did so was not a true Muslim".

There is also this source, according to which it is not allowed for a husband to injure his wife in Hanafi fiqh.VR _talk 04:56, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

What you call a POV statement is actually a faithful representation of this source describing the position of the Hanafi school. It reads:

According to Hanafi jurists, husbands were required to discipline wifely nushuz; they could discipline their woves physically, and there was a great deal of leeway in the extent and severity of hitting permissible to them. Though they offered moral exhortations to husbands to live with their wives in kindness and equity, Hanafi jurists maintained the principle set out by Ahmad b. Ali al-Jassas that there is no retaliation (qisas) in marriage, except in the case of death. A husband was permitted to hit his wife without any liability, even if the beating resulted in wounds or broken bones, as long as he did not kill her.

And perhaps you did not notice, but admonishment and abandonment have already been mentioned in my text straight after, just as it is in the source.

Your second source is a modern source, whereas Ayesha Chaudhry has studied the pre-modern Hanafi literature and described the classical Hanafi position. Modern fatwa sites, catering to modern sensibilities, are not an accurate representation of the classical positions.

Your first source says that the Ottoman Hanafi judges allowed divorce in case of beating ""by recognising doctrine from other legal schools." In other words Ottoman judges were taking from and applying the rulings of other law schools, and not from the rulings of their own Hanafi school. Allowing divorce in case of domestic violence is a Maliki allowance, and in the past century or so some Hanafi scholars have borrowed the Maliki ruling in this matter. Since a number of women started "apostatising" because Hanafi law did not grant them the right to seek divorce in case of husband's cruelty. But since the Maliki law did, one Hanafi scholar Ashraf Ali Thanawi borrowed the Maliki ruling and allowed it for women. See pg. 78 of this source. So you should not use Hanafi scholars "borrowing" Maliki positions and push that to mean that that is the view of the Hanafis themselves. Mcphurphy (talk) 07:17, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

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