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Thanks

Thanks for your work on fixing up the list of fatal snake bites article. Bookscale (talk) 10:02, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

You are very welcome, Bookscale. Normal Op (talk) 19:06, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

Courting Songs

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KY article

With regard to Gravel Switch, I briefly mention on talk page, the station at the locale later became known as Jessup. Not sure if I want to bring this up at current AFD to further complicate matters at this time. If this article needs to be re-named I think that would be the way to go per:

Gary W. Dolzall and Jerry Mart (March 1988). "The Paducah & Louisville A heritage of coal, crushed stone, and HOscale" (PDF). Trains. Retrieved May 20, 2020.

Croft, J.A. (1965). "Kentucky Division Condensed Profile" (PDF). Illinois Central Railroad. Retrieved May 22, 2020.

United States Interstate Commerce (May 20, 1988). "Interstate Commerce Commission Reports: Reports and Decisions of the Interstate Commerce Commission of the United States". U.S. Government Printing Office – via Google Books.

Edward A. Lewis, Edward A. Lewis (1996), American Shortline Railway Guide, Kalmbach Publishing, p. 241, ISBN 9780890242902

"Illinois Cenral Gulf Railroad; Exemption under Provision of Rule 19". Federal Register Volume 44, No. 84. April 30, 1970. Retrieved May 20, 2020.

"Viewing Album: Jessup/Grand Rivers KY - Railroad Picture Archives.NET". www.rrpicturearchives.net.

I love the photographs. is perfect. It's the same "view" (winter, zoom lens) as this (summer, poor resolution) google maps street view one.Normal Op (talk) 22:31, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

"Kinder Morgan's Grand Rivers Terminal (GRT) at Jessup". Paducah & Louisville Railway.</ref>

"Decision STB Finance Docket No. 33362 PADUCAH & LOUISVILLE RAILWAY, INC.—CONTROL EXEMPTION—PADUCAH & ILLINOIS RAILROAD COMPANY" (PDF). Surface Transportation Board. July 8, 1999. Retrieved May 21, 2020.

"System Map" (PDF). Paducah & Louisville Railway.

Solomon, Brian; Yough, Patrick (2009), Coal Trains: The History of Railroading and Coal in the United States, Voyageur Press, p. 104, ISBN 9781616731373

• Jouzaitis, Carol (February 26, 1986). "ICG SELLING KENTUCKY LINE FOR $54 MILLION". Chicago Tribune. Retrieved May 21, 2020.

Thoughts? Djflem (talk) 22:10, 22 May 2020 (UTC) Added two more.Djflem (talk) 17:25, 23 May 2020 (UTC) More formatted Djflem (talk) 09:20, 24 May 2020 (UTC) AnotherDjflem (talk) 22:02, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

Djflem: The articles were interesting. I had an idea and starting poking around at KY corporation search, starting with "Reed Crushed Stone", I quickly found that Reed merged into Vulcan in 1995. In "The Survivors" story, it said "he built Reed Crushed Stone Co. into one of the largest quarry operations in the country." I recall reading earlier that Vulcan was one of the largest (in present time). So I was thinking the Reed quarry might be the same as the Vulcan quarry (which is a great big hole in the ground on the satellite view). Poking at some of the Reed Crushed Stone documents, I see Gilbertsville KY, Lake City KY, and Grand Rivers KY. Those all exist on current maps. I don't seem to find anything about a Jessup KY (not even as a town submerged by the lakes). But Kentucky is a funny place and people get these ideas about naming this or that, and it doesn't seem to matter to them that no one else uses the term. I wouldn't mention Jessup unless we can solve that mystery. I tried to find a copy of Trains magazine for November 1986 which The Survivors article mentioned; that's where the word Jessup originally appeared. But I wasn't able to get access. Normal Op (talk) 07:45, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

It's clear that Vulcan acquired Reed and they may own all the quarries in the area. Still trying to figure out what BRT stands for: BRT Terminal is transloading spot. Lake City Mining also comes up.Djflem (talk) 08:06, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

Djflem, I agree that the area may well have been known as Jessup. Perhaps, though, it's the name of the stop/station that a particular railroad had there at one time. (Next task: I'll look into BRT.) Normal Op (talk) 19:13, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

Djflem, ugh, this is some of the messiest most complicated research projects I've gotten myself into.

BRT Transfer Terminal, Inc. was a Kentucky corporation with an address in Grand Rivers. It was incorporated by Smith and Reed 5-20-1981 and dissolved in 1997. Corporate info

I'm guessing BRT stands for barge-rail-transfer. According to The Survivors article, Reed (the owner of all this) got into the rail business because of the acquisition of the BRT which was outside his usual quarry-and-rock business arena.

Vulcan bought out Reed's quarry, and Vulcan is the largest aggregate producer in the USA, I'll bet they didn't want to bother with an operation to transfer coal-on-train to barges... and so they didn't buy that part of Reed's business. I'll bet that dark gray pile on the northwest side of the embayment is the coal pile, and the "box" on the railbridge that crosses the mouth of the embayment was (and is) a transfer box for unloading a rail car contents into a barge. It does match some other photos I found about rail-to-barge loading facilities. This one. Short description of process/method.

PADUCAH & LOUISVILLE RAILWAY, INC. was formed by Reed & Smith in 1986, formerly known as C G & T LINES, INC. also formed by Reed & Smith, Grand Rivers.

Union Pacific, which operates on P&L/PAL and has several rail-to-barge transfer stations, has a new 2012 coal transfer terminal just downstream in Calvert City. See the satellite images of Calvert City Coal Terminal. The PAL website has a systems map which mentions Jessup.

They also have a rail-to-barge transfer at Grand Rivers.

This google book mentions Calvert, Grand Rivers, and Jessup (page 104).

This document mentions Jessup and calls the company GRT Transfer Terminal, Inc. which is probably a typo. Quote: "If authorized to operate over P&I’s lines, P&L proposes to establish an interchange with UP, 2 which has trackage rights over BNSF’s line to Metropolis, in order to facilitate movement of coal trains for delivery to the Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA) at the rail-barge transfer facility of GRT Transfer Terminal, Inc. (located at Jessup, KY, on the Tennessee River and on P&L’s line east of Paducah), and at TVA’s Shawnee Steam Plant (located at Chiles, KY, adjacent to P&I’s line near the Kentucky end of the Ohio River bridge)."

After all this, I cannot yet tell if Jessup=GrandRivers or if they are two separate stops. And if they are two separate areas, then is Jessup east or west of Grand Rivers.

— Normal Op (talk) 22:21, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

GRT is not typo: GRT=Grand River Terminal (now Kinder Morgan).

Grand Rivers (GR) and Jessup are two separate stops: see PAL system map and Kentucky Division Condensed Profile (above). Unclear is when the term came into use, but certainly before the 1965 date of condensed profile.

My assessment: What you have added to article is description of (privately operated) spur from from the junction/interlocking/switch that left the Paducah-Louisville line (Kentucky Division) and ran between the mine itself the PAL junction and river terminal. The current coordinates are not precise enough and should actually be of the junction/interlocking/switch. The current coords on the stretch south/east of the junction is the area known as Jessup. So ultimately the article should be re-named and re-cast as Jessup, Kentucky with a history section that starts with Gravel Junction and moves on to discuss building of dam and re-alignment of rail line, development of port, and the introduction of the name Jessup (for which I can find no source as to why).Djflem (talk) 08:08, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

George P. Jessup

Am going to stick my neck out on this and suggest that the name Jessup comes from the project manager during construction of the Kentucky Dam. Don't have access to newspapers.com to check regional news from period, but he was quoted and had 15 minute of fame with a rooster (and like you said, KY can be funny about names) Wouldn't make the claim without a RS, but would mention the him in context of dam building. (under the direction of)

Hamontree, LaDonna. "LibGuides: OH207 George P. Jessup, Jr. Oral History: Home". libguides.murraystate.edu.

""Paducah Bill" Moves to Guntersville". TVA.com.

"San Pedro News Pilot 2 June 1942 — California Digital Newspaper Collection". cdnc.ucr.edu.

Council, United States National Emergency (May 24, 1941). "Directory of Federal and State Departments and Agencies in Kentucky" – via Google Books.

Djflem (talk) 10:12, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

Info?

have limited access to these, perhaps your alogorythm will permit moreDjflem (talk) 22:06, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

• Downey, Clifford J. (May 24, 2010). "Kentucky and the Illinois Central Railroad". Arcadia Publishing – via Google Books.

some screenshots for you. Password is your username. They will auto-delete in 7 days.

• Bogart, Charles H. (2018). "The Railroads of Kentucky During the 1940s & 1950s". ISBN 9781387972005.

some screenshots for you. Password is your username. They will auto-delete in 7 days.

Thanks, just had chance to look. Interesting stuff, tho not of direct relevance here.18:23, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

Corporations

The corporation-spaghetti was getting out of control. I'll try to put them all in a single list.

• Grand Rivers Terminal Corporation (aka GRT Terminal): corporate record; incorporated in KY on May 21, 1981; corp papers; purpose: to operate one or more terminal facilities at which coal and other commodities may be received by rail or truck and loaded onto river barges, and to engage in any and all activities related in any manner to such terminal facilities and their operation. Was merged into Andalex Resources, Inc. on April 16, 1986

• Tower Resources, Inc.: corporate record; incorporated 1977 in Delaware; purpose: mining, transporting coal, acquisitions, mineral rights

• Cimarron Coal: a 1967 Tennessee corporation; purpose: general coal mining; was merged into AMCA Resources, Inc on March 11, 1986.

• AMCA Resources: a 1976 Delaware Corp; purpose: mining and selling coal and minerals; was merged into Tower Resources, Inc on April 16, 1986

• AMCA Lands, Inc. (a 1976 Delaware Corp, purpose: acquiring real property and mining rights; was merged into Andalex Resources, Inc. and filed on August 5, 1986.

• Andalex Resources, Inc.: corporate record; Andalex became an assumed name of Tower Resources, Inc. on Feb 28, 1986; April 14, 1986 Towers revokes the use of assumed name; April 16, 1986 officially changes their name to Andalex Resources, Inc.; Andalex continues to file in KY as of 2019.

• Andalex Resources Management, Inc.: incorporated in Delaware May 8, 1989; corporate records up to 2007; corporate records 2009-2019

• AMCA Coal Leasing, Inc.: (was mentioned in a February 6, 1998 letter by Andalex like it's a subsidiary). Also connected to AMCA COAL SALES, INC.

• West Ken Coal Corporation: (was mentioned in a February 6, 1998 letter by Andalex like it's a subsidiary); corporate records; corp recs mention predecessor is Badgett Mine Stripping Corporation, successor is AMCA Processing, Inc.

• V M V ENTERPRISES, INC.: incorp'd by Smith & Reed 2/24/1986; corporate papers; merged into VMV ACQUISITION, INC. May 27, 1994; merger docs mention Kentucky Railwords, Inc. (a KY corp) and Dimeling, Schreiber and Park (a PA partnership)

• VMV ACQUISITION, INC.: incorp'd by Schreiber and Dimeling May 6, 1994; corp papers

Outing

Regarding this edit of yours, be extremely cautious of posting information about users gleaned from other websites. WP:OUTING is taken very seriously. -- RoySmith (talk) 02:19, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

RoySmith, 10-4. Normal Op (talk) 03:21, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

Hi, just to follow up on the above, I have suppressed your edit from public view. If you think that there is off-wiki information that indicates a user is abusing multiple accounts or otherwise editing disruptively, instead of posting that on-wiki, I would forward that information to a checkuser or other functionary in private, for example by emailing checkuser-en-wpwikipedia.org. Thanks, Mz7 (talk) 04:49, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

Mz7, no problem. And thanks. I've been trying to find who to send my information to. Been researching it for hours to no avail. Sometimes wiki instructions just plain suck. Is that who I'd send a private COI report to? Normal Op (talk) 05:03, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

Heh, sorry about the instruction creep. Unfortunately, I think my answer is going to be a bit roundabout as well. I wouldn't say there's a central location where you can lodge private COI reports—rather, there are a variety of different places that specialize in different things. checkuser-en-wpwikipedia.org would be a decent spot for a private report, I suppose, especially if you think the user is abusing multiple accounts. There is also the address paid-en-wpwikipedia.org, which is best for concerns of undisclosed paid editing. An alternative would be to individually contact a functionary via Special:EmailUser to see if they might be willing to look into the case (although I am a functionary, personally I'm not very skilled with COI issues). If the case is urgent for some reason, or if you suspect an experienced user is engaging in inappropriate COI editing, you could also try emailing your evidence to the Arbitration Committee at arbcom-enwikimedia.org. Finally, consider whether you need to include private information in your report—if you don't, a public report at WP:COIN might be best. I apologize for the roundabout answer, but as I said, there isn't one right answer—the section at Misplaced Pages:Conflict of interest#How to handle conflicts of interest has some further advice that might be helpful. Best of luck, Mz7 (talk) 05:25, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for volunteering, Mz7 (LOL); I sent you an email. I think the instruction-creep confusion is the description it gives for these "email lists". It does NOT come across like it's something we should use to send a report to "those that are working on this sort of task at the moment", but it instead reads like it's a private list for internal inter-functionary business (not something you'd send to unless you were also an active member of that group). At least that's what "email list" traditionally meant to me (me who cut my teeth on LISTSERVs). Normal Op (talk) 06:01, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

Dammit, I knew I was gonna get volunteered, heh. I just want to acknowledge that I have seen your email and will try to respond by the end of the day. Mz7 (talk) 19:03, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

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The River of Blood (monument)

The thing is, Trump and his cronies are so incredibly incompetent and vague that it's not even clear that this is a "Confederate" monument! It was fun writing that up, though. Drmies (talk) 21:54, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

LOL, Drmies, yeah I couldn't decide if I should edit it, remove it, or leave it. When I discovered it had its own article, I settled on the shortest possible summary and a link to THAT article. Normal Op (talk) 23:10, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Ha, right on. Remember when we had a gun discussion? One day it's "yes Diane Feinstein whatever you want", and the next day it's "yes NRA whatever you want". Who can keep up? Drmies (talk) 23:41, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

No, I don't remember that. I am pretty much apolitical. Normal Op (talk) 00:48, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

		The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
		Awarded for clearing out a 90+ item backlog on the List of monuments and memorials removed during the George Floyd protests talk page. Your efforts are greatly appreciated and have vastly improved the coverage of the article.Spirit of Eagle (talk) 04:08, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

recent edit on Confederate monuments list

Hi, you removed the current count of WV monuments. The citation for that was SPLC's own information. The information you put in is out of date. I suggest you go to Whose Heritage Is It and click Download Report and that will take you to the .pdf report. The correct count is 21. Dubyavee (talk) 02:25, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

Dubyavee: Okay, I just downloaded another copy of the PDF file. Page 37 it says 17 for West Virginia. Page I got the download from is here. The "citation" that was in the article previously, was a raw URL to a google docs, with no indication WHO was hosting it or where such a spreadsheet came from (therefore cannot be determined to be a reliable source). ...poking around... Ah!... I see a downloadable link on this page, which is the same google docs with the 21 for WV. However, there is a disclaimer which says "Please note that this data set includes removed symbols. If you filter by a single column to find out how many symbols are in a particular state, for example, it will include ones that were removed. If you only want to view symbols still on public land you will need to exclude removed ones." So... I'd rather go with the full PDF version from 2016 and indicate the "2016" in the article. Normal Op (talk) 02:46, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

None have been removed in WV. Here is the recent NPR article which links to the pdf . The SPLC has a total of 21. That is the most recent data. If you want to use old data I don't really care, I just wanted to point out your error. Dubyavee (talk) 03:40, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

Dubyavee: Ah, I get it now. You were confusing me by calling the googledocs spreadsheet "a pdf" (which it isn't) and the only pdf file is the 2016 one. There are TWO pages on splcenter.org titled "Whose Heritage": one that includes links for the 2016 PDF report, and one published on Feb 1, 2019 with links to the google docs spreadsheet. I have made some changes to the article so that one can use either of the two citations (refname = "SPLC2016pdf" or refname = "SPLC2019" as specific choices, and the old refname = "SPLC" defaults to the SPLC2019 one). I started reading all the instances of "SPLC" and explicitly selecting either SPLC2016pdf or SPLC2019, but I ran out of steam (with 40 more items to look at!). You're welcome to edit WV all you want (it is at the bottom of the list of 40 more to do) but please be sure to mention "the year" in the wiki article. These Misplaced Pages pages do not get updated in real time, so you need to basically put a time stamp on it. Especially if you're going to be using the googledocs as a source (via refname="SPLC2019") because I see that they are updating it regularly. Earlier this evening the citation I removed (changed) was pointing to a googledocs URL that was timestamped as last updated 7/28/2019! We need to avoid linking directly to the googledocs, and instead only link to the splcenter.org webpage with the up-to-date googledocs link. When I went there, the current version is stamped 6/25/2020. Hallelujah! Even the link from the npr.org article you gave me is using an older 6/24/2020 version. I suspect that the google docs URL changes each and every time SPLC changes the file. Anyway, I hope this leads to a clarification of what is what, and how we should refer to it in the article. I'll work on the other 40 tomorrow. Normal Op (talk) 07:41, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

Project completed. Normal Op (talk) 05:29, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

TBAN Removed

Hi Normal Op,

Per the ANI consensus I have closed the discussion as in favour of removing the TBAN. Please take care with future editing in this area.

The final comment in the ANI discussion raised a concern outside of the dogs TBAN area about potentially risky edits in other areas. It didn't specifically pertain to the TBAN or indicate a likely violation, but please make sure that the general care you've been showing in other areas of editing doesn't slide.

Have fun!

Nosebagbear (talk) 12:49, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

Talk:Zara Kay

I have added the necessary archiving code and talk header to expose the archive files. Next time you archive threads, please do so yourself, so that they are not hidden away. I was shocked to find them missing, seconds after I'd viewed the threads on the talk page, and no archive links. Elizium23 (talk) 07:46, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

@Elizium23: Thanks for putting the archive code there. I had just checked all three threads and marked two as done/moot, so I had archived them with my new-found tool, "OneClickArchiver. I hadn't noticed there was no link on the page for retrieving the archived threads. Now there is. Thank you. I guess it was just one of those coincidences that two of us were working there at the same time. I put a new photo on the page (the last one was poor quality) and made a few minor edits. I was also thinking of removing the POV tag on the page when I saw it was now missing! And then I found your note here. Ta da! Normal Op (talk) 08:08, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

@Elizium23: Just a late Thank you for giving me an example to reproduce again and again (of adding code to Talk pages for auto-archiving). I have since used your method about a dozen times, and have uncovered "hidden" surprise archived threads that were archived long ago. Thank you. Normal Op (talk) 04:38, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Normal Op, ha! Very cool discovery. Perhaps this can be addressed by a bot or something. Elizium23 (talk) 05:05, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Elizium23, they've created bots and templates for everything else. I'll bet there's a substitution type template that covers this. If I find it, I'll ping you with the info. Normal Op (talk) 05:48, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

PETA

Normal Op, regarding edits like this and this, where was it deemed that PETA is unreliable? Even if it was the case that PETA falls under "questionable sources", WP:About self applies.

Please don't ping me if you reply. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 01:59, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Flyer22 Frozen, I use a Wiki editor tool called Cite Unseen and it classifies each source you find in the References section of a wiki article. PETA is classified as "This source has been identified by Media Bias Fact Check as conspiracy-pushing." See here the PETA entry at Media Bias Fact Check website. That puts peta.org squarely into "questionable source" territory. "The proper uses of a questionable source are very limited."

From WP:ABOUTSELF: "Self-published and questionable sources may be used as sources of information ABOUT THEMSELVES, usually in articles ABOUT THEMSELVES or their activities ... so long as: it does not involve CLAIMS ABOUT THIRD PARTIES". (Caps emphasis is mine.)

Other policies/guidelines also apply including link spam, over cite, advertising, covert advertising, promotion, advocacy, fringe, etc. I can only put so much in an edit summary. So if you want to use peta.org to quote PETA's mission or their address, then go right ahead. But pretty much anything else they publish is not acceptable for use in Wikiepdia. Capisce? Normal Op (talk) 03:04, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Normal Op, I will take this to the WP:Reliable sources noticeboard. This isn't about me wanting to use PETA. I am not a PETA advocate. It's about you removing PETA when the source is being used to report on their own activities, such as whatever celebrity appeared in their PSA or whatever celebrity they gave an award to. Capisce? Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 00:10, 4 August 2020 (UTC)